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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-03-19

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09:03 independent56 How do i make nodes "spawn" other nodes? Maybe an active furnace creates 1 coal block every 34 seconds on a random air node contacting the furnace. Do i use decorations, or are they purely for map generation?
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09:35 MTDiscord <luatic> independent56: Sounds like you want ABMs.
09:35 independent56 Ah, thanks, will look into ir
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09:40 independent56 Wait, air is not "default:air" or "air:air" but just "air"?
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09:50 kabou "air" may be a registered alias of "default:air"?
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09:57 MTDiscord <luatic> kabou: nope
09:57 MTDiscord <luatic> air is a builtin node for "nothing"
09:57 kabou okay
09:57 MTDiscord <luatic> it is independent of the game
09:58 independent56 Makes sense
10:07 independent56 I am using this code https://pastebin.com/S946MM07 and every two seconds, an active furnace makes this kind of massive block: https://imgur.com/a/R2q1FgG
10:07 independent56 Which is fine if that was what i wanted, but i wanted a single block to spawn atop the furnace
10:16 definitelya > <luatic> air is a builtin node for "nothing"    Wait, what is the difference with a void node then?
10:17 independent56 air is part of the map and ignore is part of the client, as you are waiting for mapblocks to load
10:18 definitelya I see, thanks.
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10:56 independent56 Is it possible to take one part of minetest.conf from one file, and add some lines from another during that startup of the server?
10:56 independent56 For example, i want my coreminetest setting to be the same, but have different ports and descriptions for different servers.
10:59 sfan5 you're looking for an include statement
10:59 sfan5 such functionality does not exist
11:01 independent56 ahrghh, i have to do repetition
11:02 independent56 I'm sure i will have to use a script to update them automatically
11:09 MinetestBot [git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Improve lua vector helper class doumentation (#12090) 8d55702 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8d55702d139db739f8bf43eaa600f41446b29a16 (2022-03-19T11:06:55Z)
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11:30 lemonzest independent56: yeah I just have different files for each server and use the --config option to load them
11:30 independent56 Thats what i do but that causes repitition
11:30 independent56 And headaches when editing minetest.conf
11:30 lemonzest yeah unforuntaly
11:31 lemonzest yeah but minetst.conf if for the client, why would you need to include settings from that in server configs?
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13:57 * Andrew hires builders to build the Polus Among Sus map on Minetest
13:58 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> lol wat
13:59 Andrew We have The Skeld
13:59 Andrew but not Polus or anything else
14:06 * Andrew will take some screenshots
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14:10 Andrew https://lib.andrewyu.org/public/amongtest.zip contains the stuff
14:10 Andrew The screenshots
14:10 Andrew and git://git.andrewyu.org/amongmods contains the mods and the map
14:10 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> sussy wussy
14:11 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> amogus
14:11 Andrew lol
14:11 Andrew the thing is, it's in Minetest!!
14:11 Andrew still sus but not too bad
14:13 Andrew I wonder if @e-veryone would do anything on this relay lol
14:38 MTDiscord <MisterE> Can you post the screenshots here?
14:38 MTDiscord <MisterE> Oh no you cant
14:40 Hawker MTDiscord, you new to IRC?
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15:43 MTDiscord <Jonathon> No
15:48 Andrew they're using a Discard relay of some kind
15:48 Andrew if i just post png links, they should see i
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15:53 erlehmann Andrew which server can we use to play amogus
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16:02 independent56 Is it considered poor ettiquete to run 7 servers off the same computer (which i own)? I am worried about violating terms for servers.minetest.net
16:03 independent56 Each of them play a different game, which is why i have 7
16:05 erlehmann what are the games
16:07 independent56 Ah, let's see... Minetest game, No mans land, hades, Snake_3d, runorfall, Exile, luckydude, and falling_blocks
16:08 independent56 Only NML and Hades and MTG are running; i still need to setup port  forwarding
16:08 independent56 Yes, i miscounted, that's 8 servers
16:11 sfan5 it is not
16:11 sfan5 (considered poor ettiquete)
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16:20 independent56 yay, minetest being free as usual!
16:22 independent56 What if someone ran 1000 servers in an attempt to fill the list with their servers? Would that be considered poor ettiquete?
16:22 independent56 To clarify, i am just runnin servers out of passion for these games and the fact they are often more fun when multiplayer.
16:22 MTDiscord <MisterE> Might be
16:23 MTDiscord <MisterE> But the server list is ranked
16:23 MTDiscord <MisterE> So... really they would be wasting thier time and money
16:23 MTDiscord <MisterE> I think that that is a bridge to burn when we come to it
16:24 independent56 Thanks
16:25 independent56 Just wondering, can you make other faces for a single server, like different descriptions and names? Maybe 56i-server and 56i-mtserver appear on the list, linking to the sameserver?
16:30 MTDiscord <MisterE> maybe with a custom mod that broadcast to the serverlist. Why would you, though? I think that if you can now, and someone abused it, it would be ans easy fix to prevent it by comparing ips and ports
16:31 MTDiscord <MisterE> more useful would be to broadcast to another list also with a custom mod
16:32 independent56 Makes sense
16:33 independent56 Someone could use it as libel against another server, using a similar name, but incorrect description.
16:33 independent56 Many faces like that can flood past the original server.
16:36 MTDiscord <MisterE> its never happened, and its because its just not worth it. If it did happen steps would be taken to prevent it
16:39 independent56 Good.
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16:49 independent56 If server_address for all servers is 56i.duckdns.org, will it clash? Do i need to do server_address = 56i.duckdns.org:30001?
16:49 MTDiscord <MisterE> No
16:50 MTDiscord <MisterE> Just the address
16:50 MTDiscord <MisterE> The Port will also be broadcast
16:50 independent56 Ok
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16:53 independent56 How come ps -aux | grep minetest returns three instances, but servers.minetest.net returns only the main server? (paraphrased config for one of the servers not on servers.minetest.net https://pastebin.com/91wwMsRY)
16:53 independent56 Is the port added to server_address what went wrong?
16:54 MTDiscord <MisterE> check things like bind_address, port in minetest.conf, port forwarding....
16:55 independent56 I ran it with --port 3002. Does that override minetest.conf?
16:55 MTDiscord <MisterE> It should, I think?
16:55 independent56 I can connect to it though from my computer
16:56 independent56 Which is not connected to the server's internal network
16:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> Is announce_server true
16:56 independent56 (network the server shares)
16:56 sfan5 "Is the port added to server_address what went wrong?" yes
16:56 independent56 server_announce = true
16:56 independent56 Thanks
16:56 sfan5 when it says address it's an IP or hostname *no* port
16:58 independent56 I have removed them. Now i am waiting for the server to restart
16:59 independent56 yay, they appear!
16:59 independent56 Now i am waiting for my main server to start (i can't believe i enabled so many mods)
17:00 MTDiscord <MisterE> Pro tip: put all your mods in minetestgame
17:00 MTDiscord <MisterE> And rename the game
17:00 independent56 Does that make it faster?
17:00 independent56 https://imgur.com/a/ClxplQ0 Now all three of my servers show up.
17:01 MTDiscord <MisterE> It saver the trouble of enabling each mod in world.conf
17:01 independent56 I will release the other 5 when i can change port forwarding.
17:01 independent56 Makes sense
17:01 MTDiscord <MisterE> World.mt
17:01 independent56 Sorry, here is a direct link https://i.imgur.com/qH2rbL1.png
17:02 independent56 I love NML
17:03 Andrew erlehmann: andrewyu.org 30001 is unstable
17:08 erlehmann Andrew, but we can play amogus there?
17:12 Andrew erlehmann: yes?
17:12 Andrew if you have 4 players...
17:13 erlehmann oha
17:15 independent56 I'll volunteer myself once i have finished checking my hades server
17:15 independent56 My internet is extremely patchy
17:17 MTDiscord <j45> ill also volunteer myself!
17:18 independent56 Any excuse to visit a server which isn't mine
17:21 independent56 Andrew is fly, fast, and noclip privs on joining intentional?
17:22 MTDiscord <j45> and teleport ^
17:28 lagash independent56: HACKER :P
17:29 independent56 Technically, the admin is the hacker as they are the ones who put in security vulnrabilities
17:31 MTDiscord <j45> also, the server is running minetest 5.3 and IIRC there was a vulnerability in 5.3
17:32 erlehmann not if it is installed from debian
17:32 erlehmann debian fixed it
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17:50 independent56 I forgot which ssh command allows me to access my router config remotely. And google didn't help. Can you?
17:50 independent56 Cos i remember it was said here, don't remember who
17:50 MTDiscord <MisterE> Scp
17:51 MTDiscord <MisterE> wiat no
17:51 MTDiscord <MisterE> nm
17:51 MTDiscord <MisterE> Idk
17:52 independent56 I wish there was a way to search the logs
17:56 MTDiscord <Jonathon> grep
17:56 independent56 Wait i found the google way
17:57 independent56 Found it https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-11-10
17:57 MTDiscord <MisterE> Oh thats useful
17:59 erlehmann sshfs is good too
17:59 erlehmann just mount the remote lol
18:00 independent56 ssh -L localhost:8080:router-internal-ip:80 me@myserver.org
18:00 independent56 Here is the command
18:00 independent56 Keywords: port forwarding remote no access to router
18:00 independent56 Should be on Google's index
18:00 independent56 in a few hours
18:02 independent56 And it works!
18:04 independent56 Ok, port forwarding set up, testing game servers
18:07 independent56 What fun!
18:08 independent56 Hopefully they should all be listed within a few minute
18:10 independent56 https://i.imgur.com/ojTWI6t.png
18:10 independent56 Here they all are :-)
18:13 MTDiscord <Jonathon> well, thats a bunch of different games
18:17 independent56 Is it too much?
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18:29 independent56 Is the source code for servers.minetest.net with it's popularity formula publicly viewable?
18:29 independent56 Without using f12
18:36 MTDiscord <MNH48> probably this? https://github.com/minetest/serverlist
18:37 independent56 thanks
18:40 independent56 Can't wait to hack myself up the ratings
18:41 independent56 https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/blob/master/server.py#L357
18:41 independent56 You can also game the ratinga
18:43 independent56 I'll quickly make a summary
18:46 independent56 https://pastebin.com/27gNUEZ1
18:47 independent56 In summary: don't support old clients, have a lot of players (but not too much), set your player limit below 200, and have uptime.
18:49 erlehmann „don't support old clients“ lol
18:49 independent56 It's not me who made the rules
18:50 erlehmann i think it should be sortable btw
18:50 erlehmann client-side
18:50 erlehmann > Reduction to 40% for servers that support both legacy (v4) and v5 clients
18:50 erlehmann hey rubenwardy wanna explain that?
18:51 MTDiscord <MisterE> @rubenwardy
18:51 independent56 "Ever since i was born, mama told me to avoid old software. She was right."
18:51 independent56 /j
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18:54 independent56 erlehmann 6 contributors to the file and none of them are ruben...?
18:54 independent56 It was likely sfan who made that change
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18:56 erlehmann likely? did you check?
18:58 independent56 blob:https://imgur.com/bc01c85a-c3bb-4058-b254-0f6de878566f
18:58 independent56 https://i.imgur.com/9NoB63G.png
18:58 independent56 See here? sfan is at the top of the list and is the most active contributor
19:00 independent56 I think ruben is the host and that sfan is the developer
19:01 independent56 Looking at ruben's portfolio, i am amazed
19:03 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Sfan5 made the commit that biases the server list against multicraft servers
19:03 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Despite previous issues stating to not be biased against minetest forks
19:04 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> sfan5 hosts the serverlist
19:04 MTDiscord <MNH48> see at near-bottom part of https://www.minetest.net/get-involved/ to see who's generally responsible for what (which is there for contact purposes)
19:04 erlehmann rubenwardy, sorry!
19:04 independent56 Ah, makes sense
19:04 rubenwardy no, sfan5 is also the host
19:06 rubenwardy the penalisation was a compromise to allow other servers to score well without supporting older clients
19:06 independent56 (unrelated) I like how two advtrains mods are in "recently added", one by me: https://imgur.com/a/F1WsiMB
19:06 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/commit/9f144f3e3c40a52ee423466f19f8eff37f859111
19:07 MTDiscord <Jonathon> basically reasoning is just a translation of bias the serverlist against multicraft. a direct targeting
19:08 independent56 Why do we all hate multicraft?
19:08 independent56 Wait, "hate" is a strong word, what about "dislike"
19:08 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/issues/32
19:11 erlehmann rubenwardy are you saying “the penalization was a compromise to be biased against better implementation” ?
19:11 erlehmann rubenwardy or is there something tied to supporting older clients that i am missing here?
19:11 erlehmann like does supporting older clients have some drawback
19:11 MTDiscord <Jonathon> it limits you to stuff like formspec v1, etc
19:12 erlehmann yeah but that is for the server operators
19:12 MTDiscord <Jonathon> but with mods like fs51, its a non issue
19:12 erlehmann their choice tbh
19:12 erlehmann i mean with a website, no one would be penalized if it worked in elinks
19:13 erlehmann or if it had some workarounds for old internet explorer, or the new internet explorer named chrome
19:13 erlehmann as i see it, the drawback is for server maintainers, not for clients
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20:38 fluxionary someone correct me if i'm wrong: there's nothing in the lua API that can parse the serialized metadata in an itemstring without just putting it into an ItemStack?
20:41 sfan5 sounds correct
20:45 fluxionary pooh. i'm trying to write a tool to test mods w/out having to load an actual instance of minetest, this is the first tricky thing i'm gonna have to re-implement
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21:13 rubenwardy fluxionary: I recommend looking into busted as a testing library, could be worth basing your tool on that
21:13 rubenwardy busted uses luassert, for test assertions
21:14 fluxionary rubenwardy: i've seen your prior work on automated tests :)
21:15 fluxionary i'm wanting something that does a bit more of an "integration" test
21:15 rubenwardy I've mostly done UI testing, this sounds more like integ...
21:15 rubenwardy yeah
21:15 rubenwardy well
21:15 rubenwardy a full integration test might even run inside of minetest
21:15 rubenwardy you can start up MT without a visible client, and then run some test functions
21:15 fluxionary yeah, that's certainly one way, and probably more reliable
21:15 fluxionary if i give up on this current project, that's what i'll probably do
21:17 MTDiscord <Jonathon> see worldedits github actions
21:20 sfan5 or devtest's unittests
21:20 fluxionary i want to avoid having to push to github and have it spin up a whole environment every time i want to check a local tweak
21:21 rubenwardy it's possible to run the same thing locally
21:23 fluxionary i'm aware. but w/ what i'm trying to do, i just point a script at a mod's directory (and possibly specify location of minetest.conf and a world folder) and that's it
21:28 sfan5 and the script then runs a headless minetest to test stuff with only that mod imported? I don't see the issue
21:31 fluxionary it loads the mod(s) into a "fake" minetest i'm writing in lua, with trivial implementations of all the stuff that's not already lua
21:34 fluxionary e.g. nodes in the map are just stored in a table hashed on the node position
21:34 MTDiscord <luatic> Testing with a headless MT IMO is preferable.
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21:38 fluxionary possibly. certainly more fidel. but all sorts of things happen over time in a minetest world. and i'd also end up having to script headless clients.
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21:46 MinetestBot Philaire: Mar-18 23:56 UTC <erlehmann> wireguard is much better than ovpn for games because of its architecture
21:46 MinetestBot Philaire: Mar-18 23:58 UTC <erlehmann> you better join #mineclone2 if you want game-specific help some time later
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21:46 Philaire Hello again ( erlehmann and sfan5 mostly who helped me yesterday). :)
21:47 Philaire Using TCP for OVPN, I reduced UDP packet drop and loss to 0%.
21:49 Philaire And sure, Wireguard is much better, but it lacks password protection (and I can't risk it for now).
21:59 Philaire Alas.
22:00 Philaire Even with 0% drop rate in UDP, there is still a massive lag.
22:02 sfan5 if you "solve" packet loss by wrapping UDP in TCP you are bound to have massive latency increases
22:03 Philaire Sure
22:03 Philaire but at my current point, I'm willing to try anything.
22:04 Philaire As I mentionned yesterday, Minetest is the only game I have lag problems.
22:04 Philaire I'm willing to throw all under the bus, like "my connection is bad", "my configuration is bad", "my network is badly configured", etc.
22:05 Philaire but after nearly two days on the problem, I'm more and more convinced of "there's something wrong with Minetest".
22:06 Philaire I mean, the game is advertised to be able to be run on low-ends
22:06 Philaire if I need a monster PC or a monster connection, that's far from low end. :/
22:06 MTDiscord <savilli> what's your latency in minetest?
22:07 Philaire How can I know that ? :(
22:07 MTDiscord <savilli> debug info, F5
22:08 Philaire What would correspond to latency ? I have dtime, lag, etc.
22:08 Philaire ("there's something wrong with Minetest" : it's possible I'm the PEBKAC too, still.)
22:09 sfan5 the value that says RTT
22:09 Philaire dtime jitter is 1%, RTT is 176 ms on the client.
22:10 fluxionary (btw, wsor point me at https://github.com/S-S-X/mineunit which is basically exactly what i want; wish i'd found it 10k lines of code ago...)
22:12 Philaire RTT is constant 176ms.
22:12 Philaire dtime peaked to 45%
22:12 Philaire For example, I clicked "Respawn", and it's been 2 minutes.
22:13 Philaire Window is gone, but world and me still at where I died.
22:13 Philaire Now if I logout and relogin, I'm updated.
22:13 MTDiscord <savilli> it's not a lag but desync
22:13 Philaire Oh
22:13 Philaire how do I fix it, then ?
22:14 MTDiscord <savilli> if only i knew
22:14 MTDiscord <savilli> we have the same problem kinda
22:14 Philaire Oh? How so?
22:15 MTDiscord <savilli> players don't respawn or respawn in the wrong position
22:15 Philaire Well, for me, it's not just that.
22:15 Philaire It's also blocks being placed by clients not showing as placed on clients, while being placed on the server.
22:16 Philaire Still a desync ?
22:16 MTDiscord <savilli> so they're removed in clients?
22:16 Philaire No.
22:17 Philaire Like, take a block on the client.
22:17 Philaire Place it on the world.
22:17 Philaire Block still is in inventory.
22:17 Philaire Logout.
22:17 Philaire Log back in: block is now on the world.
22:17 MTDiscord <savilli> so the client sees the block in the world and in the inventory?
22:18 Philaire Well, when the client places it down, it's placed for the server
22:18 Philaire but the client believes it's not down
22:19 Philaire so it's still showing in the inventory
22:19 Philaire the only way to "fix" the client
22:19 Philaire is to logout/login
22:19 MTDiscord <savilli> does the client see it placed in the world or not?
22:19 Philaire No.
22:21 MTDiscord <savilli> that's really weird
22:21 Philaire You have no idea ;v;
22:22 MTDiscord <savilli> the clients places the block unless the server rejects it
22:22 MTDiscord <savilli> ig updating the client or the server doesn't help?
22:23 Philaire Client and server are both 5.5.0.
22:24 Philaire Unless there's some weird s**t i'm missing.
22:24 Philaire I feel like there's something OBVIOUS that I'm doing/not doing.
22:25 Philaire I'll take any advice.
22:26 MTDiscord <savilli> downgrade the server to 5.4.1 XD
22:26 Philaire ... How so? I mean, how can downgrading helps ? O.o
22:28 MTDiscord <savilli> i wouldn't be surprised
22:28 MTDiscord <savilli> when did the problems start?
22:28 Philaire Always. :D
22:28 Philaire I've recently discovered Minetest.
22:28 Philaire (One month or so.)
22:29 Philaire Always been using the latest version.
22:30 MTDiscord <savilli> try to downgrade really
22:30 Philaire Just the server ?
22:31 MTDiscord <savilli> i think so
22:31 MTDiscord <savilli> or try both, it's easy
22:31 Philaire er...
22:32 Philaire Does it mean recompiling the engine ?
22:32 Philaire Or do you have a link to older versions ?
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22:37 MTDiscord <savilli> what's your OS?
22:37 Philaire Manjaro.
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22:48 MTDiscord <savilli> then building from source is the easiest way
22:55 Philaire Do I have to build it for both server & client, or just server ?
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23:11 MTDiscord <savilli> just the server
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23:58 Philaire Welp
23:58 Philaire Going to give up on minetest entirely
23:59 Philaire spent two hours trying to rebuild the engine
23:59 Philaire (failed)
23:59 Philaire ended up downgrading to 5.4.1
23:59 Philaire Now, refuses to start with a lovely "/usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/misc.lua:253: attempt to call field 'set_http_api_lua' (a nil value)"

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