Time Nick Message 09:03 independent56 How do i make nodes "spawn" other nodes? Maybe an active furnace creates 1 coal block every 34 seconds on a random air node contacting the furnace. Do i use decorations, or are they purely for map generation? 09:35 MTDiscord independent56: Sounds like you want ABMs. 09:35 independent56 Ah, thanks, will look into ir 09:40 independent56 Wait, air is not "default:air" or "air:air" but just "air"? 09:50 kabou "air" may be a registered alias of "default:air"? 09:57 MTDiscord kabou: nope 09:57 MTDiscord air is a builtin node for "nothing" 09:57 kabou okay 09:57 MTDiscord it is independent of the game 09:58 independent56 Makes sense 10:07 independent56 I am using this code https://pastebin.com/S946MM07 and every two seconds, an active furnace makes this kind of massive block: https://imgur.com/a/R2q1FgG 10:07 independent56 Which is fine if that was what i wanted, but i wanted a single block to spawn atop the furnace 10:16 definitelya > air is a builtin node for "nothing" Wait, what is the difference with a void node then? 10:17 independent56 air is part of the map and ignore is part of the client, as you are waiting for mapblocks to load 10:18 definitelya I see, thanks. 10:56 independent56 Is it possible to take one part of minetest.conf from one file, and add some lines from another during that startup of the server? 10:56 independent56 For example, i want my coreminetest setting to be the same, but have different ports and descriptions for different servers. 10:59 sfan5 you're looking for an include statement 10:59 sfan5 such functionality does not exist 11:01 independent56 ahrghh, i have to do repetition 11:02 independent56 I'm sure i will have to use a script to update them automatically 11:09 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve lua vector helper class doumentation (#12090) 138d55702 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8d55702d139db739f8bf43eaa600f41446b29a16 (152022-03-19T11:06:55Z) 11:30 lemonzest independent56: yeah I just have different files for each server and use the --config option to load them 11:30 independent56 Thats what i do but that causes repitition 11:30 independent56 And headaches when editing minetest.conf 11:30 lemonzest yeah unforuntaly 11:31 lemonzest yeah but minetst.conf if for the client, why would you need to include settings from that in server configs? 13:57 * Andrew hires builders to build the Polus Among Sus map on Minetest 13:58 MTDiscord lol wat 13:59 Andrew We have The Skeld 13:59 Andrew but not Polus or anything else 14:06 * Andrew will take some screenshots 14:10 Andrew https://lib.andrewyu.org/public/amongtest.zip contains the stuff 14:10 Andrew The screenshots 14:10 Andrew and git://git.andrewyu.org/amongmods contains the mods and the map 14:10 MTDiscord sussy wussy 14:11 MTDiscord amogus 14:11 Andrew lol 14:11 Andrew the thing is, it's in Minetest!! 14:11 Andrew still sus but not too bad 14:13 Andrew I wonder if @e-veryone would do anything on this relay lol 14:38 MTDiscord Can you post the screenshots here? 14:38 MTDiscord Oh no you cant 14:40 Hawker MTDiscord, you new to IRC? 15:43 MTDiscord No 15:48 Andrew they're using a Discard relay of some kind 15:48 Andrew if i just post png links, they should see i 15:53 erlehmann Andrew which server can we use to play amogus 16:02 independent56 Is it considered poor ettiquete to run 7 servers off the same computer (which i own)? I am worried about violating terms for servers.minetest.net 16:03 independent56 Each of them play a different game, which is why i have 7 16:05 erlehmann what are the games 16:07 independent56 Ah, let's see... Minetest game, No mans land, hades, Snake_3d, runorfall, Exile, luckydude, and falling_blocks 16:08 independent56 Only NML and Hades and MTG are running; i still need to setup port  forwarding 16:08 independent56 Yes, i miscounted, that's 8 servers 16:11 sfan5 it is not 16:11 sfan5 (considered poor ettiquete) 16:20 independent56 yay, minetest being free as usual! 16:22 independent56 What if someone ran 1000 servers in an attempt to fill the list with their servers? Would that be considered poor ettiquete? 16:22 independent56 To clarify, i am just runnin servers out of passion for these games and the fact they are often more fun when multiplayer. 16:22 MTDiscord Might be 16:23 MTDiscord But the server list is ranked 16:23 MTDiscord So... really they would be wasting thier time and money 16:23 MTDiscord I think that that is a bridge to burn when we come to it 16:24 independent56 Thanks 16:25 independent56 Just wondering, can you make other faces for a single server, like different descriptions and names? Maybe 56i-server and 56i-mtserver appear on the list, linking to the sameserver? 16:30 MTDiscord maybe with a custom mod that broadcast to the serverlist. Why would you, though? I think that if you can now, and someone abused it, it would be ans easy fix to prevent it by comparing ips and ports 16:31 MTDiscord more useful would be to broadcast to another list also with a custom mod 16:32 independent56 Makes sense 16:33 independent56 Someone could use it as libel against another server, using a similar name, but incorrect description. 16:33 independent56 Many faces like that can flood past the original server. 16:36 MTDiscord its never happened, and its because its just not worth it. If it did happen steps would be taken to prevent it 16:39 independent56 Good. 16:49 independent56 If server_address for all servers is 56i.duckdns.org, will it clash? Do i need to do server_address = 56i.duckdns.org:30001? 16:49 MTDiscord No 16:50 MTDiscord Just the address 16:50 MTDiscord The Port will also be broadcast 16:50 independent56 Ok 16:53 independent56 How come ps -aux | grep minetest returns three instances, but servers.minetest.net returns only the main server? (paraphrased config for one of the servers not on servers.minetest.net https://pastebin.com/91wwMsRY) 16:53 independent56 Is the port added to server_address what went wrong? 16:54 MTDiscord check things like bind_address, port in minetest.conf, port forwarding.... 16:55 independent56 I ran it with --port 3002. Does that override minetest.conf? 16:55 MTDiscord It should, I think? 16:55 independent56 I can connect to it though from my computer 16:56 independent56 Which is not connected to the server's internal network 16:56 MTDiscord Is announce_server true 16:56 independent56 (network the server shares) 16:56 sfan5 "Is the port added to server_address what went wrong?" yes 16:56 independent56 server_announce = true 16:56 independent56 Thanks 16:56 sfan5 when it says address it's an IP or hostname *no* port 16:58 independent56 I have removed them. Now i am waiting for the server to restart 16:59 independent56 yay, they appear! 16:59 independent56 Now i am waiting for my main server to start (i can't believe i enabled so many mods) 17:00 MTDiscord Pro tip: put all your mods in minetestgame 17:00 MTDiscord And rename the game 17:00 independent56 Does that make it faster? 17:00 independent56 https://imgur.com/a/ClxplQ0 Now all three of my servers show up. 17:01 MTDiscord It saver the trouble of enabling each mod in world.conf 17:01 independent56 I will release the other 5 when i can change port forwarding. 17:01 independent56 Makes sense 17:01 MTDiscord World.mt 17:01 independent56 Sorry, here is a direct link https://i.imgur.com/qH2rbL1.png 17:02 independent56 I love NML 17:03 Andrew erlehmann: andrewyu.org 30001 is unstable 17:08 erlehmann Andrew, but we can play amogus there? 17:12 Andrew erlehmann: yes? 17:12 Andrew if you have 4 players... 17:13 erlehmann oha 17:15 independent56 I'll volunteer myself once i have finished checking my hades server 17:15 independent56 My internet is extremely patchy 17:17 MTDiscord ill also volunteer myself! 17:18 independent56 Any excuse to visit a server which isn't mine 17:21 independent56 Andrew is fly, fast, and noclip privs on joining intentional? 17:22 MTDiscord and teleport ^ 17:28 lagash independent56: HACKER :P 17:29 independent56 Technically, the admin is the hacker as they are the ones who put in security vulnrabilities 17:31 MTDiscord also, the server is running minetest 5.3 and IIRC there was a vulnerability in 5.3 17:32 erlehmann not if it is installed from debian 17:32 erlehmann debian fixed it 17:50 independent56 I forgot which ssh command allows me to access my router config remotely. And google didn't help. Can you? 17:50 independent56 Cos i remember it was said here, don't remember who 17:50 MTDiscord Scp 17:51 MTDiscord wiat no 17:51 MTDiscord nm 17:51 MTDiscord Idk 17:52 independent56 I wish there was a way to search the logs 17:56 MTDiscord grep 17:56 independent56 Wait i found the google way 17:57 independent56 Found it https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-11-10 17:57 MTDiscord Oh thats useful 17:59 erlehmann sshfs is good too 17:59 erlehmann just mount the remote lol 18:00 independent56 ssh -L localhost:8080:router-internal-ip:80 me@myserver.org 18:00 independent56 Here is the command 18:00 independent56 Keywords: port forwarding remote no access to router 18:00 independent56 Should be on Google's index 18:00 independent56 in a few hours 18:02 independent56 And it works! 18:04 independent56 Ok, port forwarding set up, testing game servers 18:07 independent56 What fun! 18:08 independent56 Hopefully they should all be listed within a few minute 18:10 independent56 https://i.imgur.com/ojTWI6t.png 18:10 independent56 Here they all are :-) 18:13 MTDiscord well, thats a bunch of different games 18:17 independent56 Is it too much? 18:29 independent56 Is the source code for servers.minetest.net with it's popularity formula publicly viewable? 18:29 independent56 Without using f12 18:36 MTDiscord probably this? https://github.com/minetest/serverlist 18:37 independent56 thanks 18:40 independent56 Can't wait to hack myself up the ratings 18:41 independent56 https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/blob/master/server.py#L357 18:41 independent56 You can also game the ratinga 18:43 independent56 I'll quickly make a summary 18:46 independent56 https://pastebin.com/27gNUEZ1 18:47 independent56 In summary: don't support old clients, have a lot of players (but not too much), set your player limit below 200, and have uptime. 18:49 erlehmann „don't support old clients“ lol 18:49 independent56 It's not me who made the rules 18:50 erlehmann i think it should be sortable btw 18:50 erlehmann client-side 18:50 erlehmann > Reduction to 40% for servers that support both legacy (v4) and v5 clients 18:50 erlehmann hey rubenwardy wanna explain that? 18:51 MTDiscord @rubenwardy 18:51 independent56 "Ever since i was born, mama told me to avoid old software. She was right." 18:51 independent56 /j 18:54 independent56 erlehmann 6 contributors to the file and none of them are ruben...? 18:54 independent56 It was likely sfan who made that change 18:56 erlehmann likely? did you check? 18:58 independent56 blob:https://imgur.com/bc01c85a-c3bb-4058-b254-0f6de878566f 18:58 independent56 https://i.imgur.com/9NoB63G.png 18:58 independent56 See here? sfan is at the top of the list and is the most active contributor 19:00 independent56 I think ruben is the host and that sfan is the developer 19:01 independent56 Looking at ruben's portfolio, i am amazed 19:03 MTDiscord Sfan5 made the commit that biases the server list against multicraft servers 19:03 MTDiscord Despite previous issues stating to not be biased against minetest forks 19:04 MTDiscord sfan5 hosts the serverlist 19:04 MTDiscord see at near-bottom part of https://www.minetest.net/get-involved/ to see who's generally responsible for what (which is there for contact purposes) 19:04 erlehmann rubenwardy, sorry! 19:04 independent56 Ah, makes sense 19:04 rubenwardy no, sfan5 is also the host 19:06 rubenwardy the penalisation was a compromise to allow other servers to score well without supporting older clients 19:06 independent56 (unrelated) I like how two advtrains mods are in "recently added", one by me: https://imgur.com/a/F1WsiMB 19:06 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/commit/9f144f3e3c40a52ee423466f19f8eff37f859111 19:07 MTDiscord basically reasoning is just a translation of bias the serverlist against multicraft. a direct targeting 19:08 independent56 Why do we all hate multicraft? 19:08 independent56 Wait, "hate" is a strong word, what about "dislike" 19:08 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/issues/32 19:11 erlehmann rubenwardy are you saying “the penalization was a compromise to be biased against better implementation” ? 19:11 erlehmann rubenwardy or is there something tied to supporting older clients that i am missing here? 19:11 erlehmann like does supporting older clients have some drawback 19:11 MTDiscord it limits you to stuff like formspec v1, etc 19:12 erlehmann yeah but that is for the server operators 19:12 MTDiscord but with mods like fs51, its a non issue 19:12 erlehmann their choice tbh 19:12 erlehmann i mean with a website, no one would be penalized if it worked in elinks 19:13 erlehmann or if it had some workarounds for old internet explorer, or the new internet explorer named chrome 19:13 erlehmann as i see it, the drawback is for server maintainers, not for clients 20:38 fluxionary someone correct me if i'm wrong: there's nothing in the lua API that can parse the serialized metadata in an itemstring without just putting it into an ItemStack? 20:41 sfan5 sounds correct 20:45 fluxionary pooh. i'm trying to write a tool to test mods w/out having to load an actual instance of minetest, this is the first tricky thing i'm gonna have to re-implement 21:13 rubenwardy fluxionary: I recommend looking into busted as a testing library, could be worth basing your tool on that 21:13 rubenwardy busted uses luassert, for test assertions 21:14 fluxionary rubenwardy: i've seen your prior work on automated tests :) 21:15 fluxionary i'm wanting something that does a bit more of an "integration" test 21:15 rubenwardy I've mostly done UI testing, this sounds more like integ... 21:15 rubenwardy yeah 21:15 rubenwardy well 21:15 rubenwardy a full integration test might even run inside of minetest 21:15 rubenwardy you can start up MT without a visible client, and then run some test functions 21:15 fluxionary yeah, that's certainly one way, and probably more reliable 21:15 fluxionary if i give up on this current project, that's what i'll probably do 21:17 MTDiscord see worldedits github actions 21:20 sfan5 or devtest's unittests 21:20 fluxionary i want to avoid having to push to github and have it spin up a whole environment every time i want to check a local tweak 21:21 rubenwardy it's possible to run the same thing locally 21:23 fluxionary i'm aware. but w/ what i'm trying to do, i just point a script at a mod's directory (and possibly specify location of minetest.conf and a world folder) and that's it 21:28 sfan5 and the script then runs a headless minetest to test stuff with only that mod imported? I don't see the issue 21:31 fluxionary it loads the mod(s) into a "fake" minetest i'm writing in lua, with trivial implementations of all the stuff that's not already lua 21:34 fluxionary e.g. nodes in the map are just stored in a table hashed on the node position 21:34 MTDiscord Testing with a headless MT IMO is preferable. 21:38 fluxionary possibly. certainly more fidel. but all sorts of things happen over time in a minetest world. and i'd also end up having to script headless clients. 21:46 MinetestBot Philaire: Mar-18 23:56 UTC wireguard is much better than ovpn for games because of its architecture 21:46 MinetestBot Philaire: Mar-18 23:58 UTC you better join #mineclone2 if you want game-specific help some time later 21:46 Philaire Hello again ( erlehmann and sfan5 mostly who helped me yesterday). :) 21:47 Philaire Using TCP for OVPN, I reduced UDP packet drop and loss to 0%. 21:49 Philaire And sure, Wireguard is much better, but it lacks password protection (and I can't risk it for now). 21:59 Philaire Alas. 22:00 Philaire Even with 0% drop rate in UDP, there is still a massive lag. 22:02 sfan5 if you "solve" packet loss by wrapping UDP in TCP you are bound to have massive latency increases 22:03 Philaire Sure 22:03 Philaire but at my current point, I'm willing to try anything. 22:04 Philaire As I mentionned yesterday, Minetest is the only game I have lag problems. 22:04 Philaire I'm willing to throw all under the bus, like "my connection is bad", "my configuration is bad", "my network is badly configured", etc. 22:05 Philaire but after nearly two days on the problem, I'm more and more convinced of "there's something wrong with Minetest". 22:06 Philaire I mean, the game is advertised to be able to be run on low-ends 22:06 Philaire if I need a monster PC or a monster connection, that's far from low end. :/ 22:06 MTDiscord what's your latency in minetest? 22:07 Philaire How can I know that ? :( 22:07 MTDiscord debug info, F5 22:08 Philaire What would correspond to latency ? I have dtime, lag, etc. 22:08 Philaire ("there's something wrong with Minetest" : it's possible I'm the PEBKAC too, still.) 22:09 sfan5 the value that says RTT 22:09 Philaire dtime jitter is 1%, RTT is 176 ms on the client. 22:10 fluxionary (btw, wsor point me at https://github.com/S-S-X/mineunit which is basically exactly what i want; wish i'd found it 10k lines of code ago...) 22:12 Philaire RTT is constant 176ms. 22:12 Philaire dtime peaked to 45% 22:12 Philaire For example, I clicked "Respawn", and it's been 2 minutes. 22:13 Philaire Window is gone, but world and me still at where I died. 22:13 Philaire Now if I logout and relogin, I'm updated. 22:13 MTDiscord it's not a lag but desync 22:13 Philaire Oh 22:13 Philaire how do I fix it, then ? 22:14 MTDiscord if only i knew 22:14 MTDiscord we have the same problem kinda 22:14 Philaire Oh? How so? 22:15 MTDiscord players don't respawn or respawn in the wrong position 22:15 Philaire Well, for me, it's not just that. 22:15 Philaire It's also blocks being placed by clients not showing as placed on clients, while being placed on the server. 22:16 Philaire Still a desync ? 22:16 MTDiscord so they're removed in clients? 22:16 Philaire No. 22:17 Philaire Like, take a block on the client. 22:17 Philaire Place it on the world. 22:17 Philaire Block still is in inventory. 22:17 Philaire Logout. 22:17 Philaire Log back in: block is now on the world. 22:17 MTDiscord so the client sees the block in the world and in the inventory? 22:18 Philaire Well, when the client places it down, it's placed for the server 22:18 Philaire but the client believes it's not down 22:19 Philaire so it's still showing in the inventory 22:19 Philaire the only way to "fix" the client 22:19 Philaire is to logout/login 22:19 MTDiscord does the client see it placed in the world or not? 22:19 Philaire No. 22:21 MTDiscord that's really weird 22:21 Philaire You have no idea ;v; 22:22 MTDiscord the clients places the block unless the server rejects it 22:22 MTDiscord ig updating the client or the server doesn't help? 22:23 Philaire Client and server are both 5.5.0. 22:24 Philaire Unless there's some weird s**t i'm missing. 22:24 Philaire I feel like there's something OBVIOUS that I'm doing/not doing. 22:25 Philaire I'll take any advice. 22:26 MTDiscord downgrade the server to 5.4.1 XD 22:26 Philaire ... How so? I mean, how can downgrading helps ? O.o 22:28 MTDiscord i wouldn't be surprised 22:28 MTDiscord when did the problems start? 22:28 Philaire Always. :D 22:28 Philaire I've recently discovered Minetest. 22:28 Philaire (One month or so.) 22:29 Philaire Always been using the latest version. 22:30 MTDiscord try to downgrade really 22:30 Philaire Just the server ? 22:31 MTDiscord i think so 22:31 MTDiscord or try both, it's easy 22:31 Philaire er... 22:32 Philaire Does it mean recompiling the engine ? 22:32 Philaire Or do you have a link to older versions ? 22:37 MTDiscord what's your OS? 22:37 Philaire Manjaro. 22:48 MTDiscord then building from source is the easiest way 22:55 Philaire Do I have to build it for both server & client, or just server ? 23:11 MTDiscord just the server 23:58 Philaire Welp 23:58 Philaire Going to give up on minetest entirely 23:59 Philaire spent two hours trying to rebuild the engine 23:59 Philaire (failed) 23:59 Philaire ended up downgrading to 5.4.1 23:59 Philaire Now, refuses to start with a lovely "/usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/misc.lua:253: attempt to call field 'set_http_api_lua' (a nil value)"