| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:25 |
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| 00:28 |
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| 00:32 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Wait for sfan5 to appear, he can help you, likely |
| 00:32 |
erlehmann |
Philaire ok so rebuilds are not possible basically |
| 00:32 |
erlehmann |
Philaire the reason is that minetest uses cmake and make, which are both really bad at dependency tracking for incremental builds. |
| 00:33 |
erlehmann |
Philaire you absolutely HAVE to make a clean build every time, otherwise, even if it compiles, your binary may not correspond to the source code. |
| 00:34 |
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| 00:35 |
erlehmann |
Philaire https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11749 |
| 00:36 |
erlehmann |
Philaire so yeah, make an entirely clean checkout, then a clean bild. |
| 00:36 |
erlehmann |
build |
| 00:37 |
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| 00:37 |
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| 00:38 |
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| 00:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> is he still there? |
| 00:44 |
erlehmann |
MisterE, yes, you can look in the list of channel users |
| 00:45 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I'm in discord, no I cant |
| 00:45 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Without logging in to irc that is |
| 00:46 |
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| 00:48 |
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| 00:50 |
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| 01:01 |
Philaire |
Still here |
| 01:01 |
Philaire |
managed to downgrade the whole packages |
| 01:01 |
Philaire |
for good |
| 01:02 |
Philaire |
and strangely, lag vanished :/ |
| 01:02 |
Philaire |
which makes me wonder |
| 01:03 |
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| 01:03 |
Philaire |
what the h*** happened from 5.4.1 to 5.5.0 ? :/ |
| 01:03 |
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| 01:04 |
erlehmann |
a lot |
| 01:04 |
erlehmann |
Philaire to make it more FUN, it is very hard to bisect issues :D |
| 01:04 |
Philaire |
Network-wise, I mean. :P |
| 01:05 |
erlehmann |
that's a question best asked to sfan5 |
| 01:06 |
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| 01:06 |
Philaire |
What's confusing is that MineClone2 works with 5.4.1 better too |
| 01:08 |
Philaire |
... why would I need to update to 5.5.0, then ? |
| 01:08 |
erlehmann |
Philaire better in what way? |
| 01:08 |
Philaire |
Lag-wise and desync-wise. |
| 01:09 |
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| 01:09 |
erlehmann |
curious |
| 01:10 |
erlehmann |
Philaire file an issue about that on the mineclone2 issue tracker please: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues |
| 01:10 |
Philaire |
How so? |
| 01:11 |
Philaire |
I mean, the bug is clearly linked to MT rather than one of its games |
| 01:14 |
erlehmann |
Philaire it might be avoidable to trigger it from mineclone2, if we know how |
| 01:14 |
Philaire |
You're a MC2 dev ? :) |
| 01:15 |
erlehmann |
Philaire i have contributed performance and stability fixes to it, either directly or via mineclonia. https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia |
| 01:15 |
Philaire |
Another MC clone ? |
| 01:17 |
erlehmann |
TL;DR: mineclone2 0.71 was horrible performance-wise, so cora, me and some other people forked from it. turns out that a) it is possible to apply a strict testing and review regime to software to make new features not contain new mistakes b) people absolute hate doing that work and constantly complain about it being “too slow”. |
| 01:18 |
Philaire |
What would be useful to post along the issue ? |
| 01:18 |
erlehmann |
so recently, mineclone2 needed a new maintainer, and cora took over. now there is mineclone2 0.72 which is between mineclonia and mineclone5 in terms of features (mineclone5 is the random spaghetti bleeding edge stuff, avoid it if you want a long-term world, try it if you like your new features also bringing new bugs). |
| 01:19 |
erlehmann |
basically, i want to know if mineclonia triggers the bug |
| 01:19 |
erlehmann |
because if it does not, it is some new feature that does it |
| 01:19 |
erlehmann |
uh, does mineclone2 have an issue template yet? |
| 01:20 |
erlehmann |
just post everything that could possibly help. operating system, hardware, ideally: how to reprouduce this. |
| 01:20 |
Philaire |
Well, so far, I can tell you that I had this problem already six months ago when I first stumbled upon Minetest. |
| 01:20 |
erlehmann |
which version of mineclone2 and minetest did you use |
| 01:20 |
erlehmann |
down to the commit hashes |
| 01:20 |
erlehmann |
CPU architecture ofc |
| 01:20 |
Philaire |
Hence why I didn't try it for longer. |
| 01:20 |
erlehmann |
how you built minetest, like compile flags |
| 01:21 |
erlehmann |
i have encountered a lot of problems but never this one |
| 01:21 |
erlehmann |
i mean, minetest has like over 1000 open issues |
| 01:21 |
erlehmann |
so my question is: have you opened a *minetest* issue already? |
| 01:21 |
Philaire |
Not yet. |
| 01:21 |
erlehmann |
do that first |
| 01:21 |
Philaire |
Again, I'm trying to see if it's *me* who's doing things wrong first |
| 01:22 |
Philaire |
then b) I have to wait until I'm home |
| 01:22 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 will close your issue in 20 minutes if you do anything even remotely like that |
| 01:22 |
erlehmann |
doesn't pull punches lol |
| 01:22 |
Philaire |
It's 2.23 AM and I'm not home |
| 01:23 |
Philaire |
have nothing to properly make an issue |
| 01:23 |
Philaire |
so I'll do it tomorrow evening |
| 01:23 |
erlehmann |
also there are several bugs in minetest that were not fixed by mcl2 or mcla or mcl5 devs but we found them and did debugging work and made workarounds |
| 01:23 |
Philaire |
but should I post it as MT or MC2? |
| 01:23 |
erlehmann |
two things |
| 01:23 |
erlehmann |
first post about your general problems to minetest issue tracker |
| 01:24 |
erlehmann |
then figure out if anything in mineclone2 triggers the minetest behavior. there is some stuff that games should just avoid, like spawning too many particles. |
| 01:25 |
erlehmann |
like, honestly, mineclone2 0.71 makes you lag if you wear enchanted armor |
| 01:25 |
erlehmann |
because the armor has too much metadata |
| 01:25 |
Philaire |
... how comes a C++ game for lowends can lag? :/ |
| 01:26 |
erlehmann |
easy |
| 01:26 |
erlehmann |
first, minetest engine is a group work that has 10 years of history |
| 01:27 |
erlehmann |
second, no super designed API will help you when some game, for example, spawns 1000 independent entities that are all updated in every frame or so |
| 01:27 |
erlehmann |
the network traffic alone for that can not be optimized away |
| 01:28 |
erlehmann |
Philaire easy test: use /forceenchant command to make a sword that is enchanted to make a lot of damage |
| 01:28 |
erlehmann |
in mineclone2 there are black hearts spawned for the damage |
| 01:28 |
erlehmann |
sooooo |
| 01:28 |
erlehmann |
hit someone with a 32k sword and boom lag |
| 01:29 |
Philaire |
I'll try it tomorrow. |
| 01:29 |
erlehmann |
in this case, because particle rendering in minetest has been cursed for a long time (and it is not easy to replace with the irrlicht particle rendering apparently) |
| 01:29 |
Philaire |
For now, I'm seeking if something similar to "SkyFactory" modpack exists... ^^' |
| 01:29 |
Philaire |
(am on phone) |
| 01:29 |
erlehmann |
what is that doing? |
| 01:30 |
Philaire |
Basically |
| 01:30 |
erlehmann |
but like, mineclone2 0.71 and minetest_game were sending HUD flags way too often |
| 01:30 |
erlehmann |
that also causes traffic |
| 01:30 |
Philaire |
skyblock + machines in Minecraft |
| 01:30 |
Philaire |
https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/modpacks/skyfactory-4 |
| 01:31 |
erlehmann |
AFAIK there are at least three basic machinery options you can have in minetest: mesecons (redstone in mineclone2 is modified mesecons), whatever nodecore does, mech (which is used in “inside the box”) |
| 01:32 |
erlehmann |
mesecons is by far the most popular |
| 01:32 |
Philaire |
I'm used to the Minecraft Forge API |
| 01:33 |
erlehmann |
no idea what forge is |
| 01:33 |
erlehmann |
could you elaborate? |
| 01:33 |
Philaire |
Sure |
| 01:33 |
Philaire |
basically |
| 01:33 |
Philaire |
Minecraft is in Java, with a (very) bad code structure (IMHO). |
| 01:34 |
Philaire |
As modding is not possible, some genius devs have made a kind of layer to mod it. |
| 01:35 |
Philaire |
This is called Minecraft Forge. |
| 01:35 |
Philaire |
Basically, it modifies the .jar and adds a modding api. |
| 01:36 |
Philaire |
But it works |
| 01:36 |
Philaire |
and since something which works isn't stupid |
| 01:36 |
Philaire |
it's a somewhat non stupid idea. |
| 01:37 |
erlehmann |
ah |
| 01:37 |
erlehmann |
minetest is much better in terms of mods |
| 01:37 |
Philaire |
Main dev of forge (if not the only one) is LexManos |
| 01:37 |
erlehmann |
like MUCH better |
| 01:37 |
Philaire |
I know :P |
| 01:38 |
Philaire |
but it lacks fame and acceptability |
| 01:38 |
Philaire |
or diversity |
| 01:38 |
erlehmann |
ok so i suggest to open a minetest issue |
| 01:38 |
erlehmann |
diversity? |
| 01:38 |
Philaire |
in the way that Minecraft is |
| 01:38 |
Philaire |
perhaps not "diversity" |
| 01:38 |
Philaire |
more like... |
| 01:38 |
Philaire |
... |
| 01:39 |
Philaire |
...well, it's mostly on reputation, still, but people are much aware of Minecraft |
| 01:39 |
erlehmann |
yes obviously |
| 01:39 |
erlehmann |
so? |
| 01:39 |
Philaire |
there are many launchers or modpacks in Minecraft |
| 01:39 |
erlehmann |
there are more mods than you can reasonably try yourself for minetest already |
| 01:39 |
erlehmann |
and so many games that you can play for months and still not get bored |
| 01:40 |
Philaire |
ah, I don't disagree with that |
| 01:40 |
erlehmann |
i don't really see what you are missing |
| 01:40 |
Philaire |
the "packaging" or "advertisement"? |
| 01:40 |
erlehmann |
besides, say, API stability |
| 01:40 |
erlehmann |
not again |
| 01:40 |
Philaire |
https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/ |
| 01:40 |
Philaire |
for example |
| 01:40 |
Philaire |
There is contentdb |
| 01:40 |
erlehmann |
that page is not very userfriendly |
| 01:40 |
erlehmann |
it says |
| 01:40 |
erlehmann |
> Please complete the security check to access www.curseforge.com |
| 01:41 |
erlehmann |
> Why do I have to complete a CAPTCHA? |
| 01:41 |
erlehmann |
this is total crap sorry |
| 01:41 |
erlehmann |
i have made websites for a living and i would NEVER show anyone a captcha for readonly access |
| 01:41 |
erlehmann |
please give me a better example than this |
| 01:41 |
erlehmann |
i am not completing that captcha |
| 01:42 |
Philaire |
... |
| 01:42 |
Philaire |
...that's not curseforge |
| 01:42 |
Philaire |
that's CloudFlare DDoS protection |
| 01:42 |
erlehmann |
you want a screenshot? |
| 01:42 |
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| 01:43 |
erlehmann |
look, i am going to that website and it's HTTPS. so it can ONLY be the one who ultimately controls the website who is showing me that. or my system is borked. |
| 01:43 |
Philaire |
No, because I'm not disbelieving you |
| 01:43 |
erlehmann |
if you say, oh, but they delegated that to cloudflare, well, i don't care. the end user experience is total crap already. |
| 01:43 |
rubenwardy |
are you using Tor? |
| 01:43 |
erlehmann |
no |
| 01:43 |
erlehmann |
i am using the same connection that i always use |
| 01:44 |
erlehmann |
with current firefox |
| 01:44 |
erlehmann |
on a debian system |
| 01:44 |
Philaire |
well, I can say that I have no Captcha and claim to have a nice user experience |
| 01:44 |
erlehmann |
regardless, this is absolutely unforgivable |
| 01:44 |
Philaire |
but that's not valid for the discussion |
| 01:44 |
erlehmann |
okay, so what *did* you want to discuss? |
| 01:44 |
erlehmann |
i mean http://www.minetest.net/ is not good enough for you? |
| 01:45 |
Philaire |
calm down |
| 01:45 |
Philaire |
no need to attack me |
| 01:45 |
Philaire |
I'm from a MC background |
| 01:45 |
Philaire |
and trying to switch for MT |
| 01:45 |
erlehmann |
rubenwardy, btw i think on http://www.minetest.net/ there should be “contentDB” changed to “get mods” or something more descriptive. what do you think? |
| 01:45 |
erlehmann |
or browse mods |
| 01:45 |
Philaire |
for example |
| 01:46 |
Philaire |
ContentDB is "only" 1200 mods |
| 01:46 |
Philaire |
Curseforge lists ... 99159 mods. |
| 01:46 |
Philaire |
(for minecraft) |
| 01:46 |
erlehmann |
Philaire, oh i am not angry. i just wanted to use the strongest possible language to reflect my absolute disdain for this practie of showing captcha for readonly access. |
| 01:47 |
erlehmann |
regardless |
| 01:47 |
erlehmann |
what difference does it make how many mods are there? is there something missing? |
| 01:47 |
Philaire |
Well, in terms of diversity of mods. |
| 01:47 |
erlehmann |
not necessarily true |
| 01:48 |
Philaire |
... let me put it in your words, then :P |
| 01:48 |
Philaire |
You're complaining for a captcha that prevents you from browsing a website : bad experience for you. |
| 01:49 |
erlehmann |
show me a single mod for minecraft in which you can build as high as minetest :P |
| 01:49 |
erlehmann |
not sure if anything of this is your thing https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=skyblock |
| 01:49 |
Philaire |
I'm mentionning that the usual mods I'm using fails to find an equivalent for Minetest, either due to a small number of mods on ContentDB or... well, is there some other place I can gather mods ? |
| 01:50 |
erlehmann |
yeah, but this complaint is like complaining that there is no defrag program for linux filesystem |
| 01:50 |
Philaire |
Well, this would be my thing... but all mods mention "this is for NodeCore only", for example. |
| 01:50 |
erlehmann |
minetest is not an equivalent of minecraft |
| 01:50 |
Philaire |
And I have no clue what NodeCore is (for example). |
| 01:50 |
erlehmann |
a game |
| 01:51 |
erlehmann |
so you install nodecore and then the mod |
| 01:51 |
Philaire |
And the correct answer to such a complaint would be "you don't need to defrag ext4" (technically) |
| 01:51 |
erlehmann |
regarding userfriendlyness: if i join minecraft servers, do they by now download all the mods? because they did not use to do that at some point |
| 01:51 |
rubenwardy |
arguing isn't really helpful here |
| 01:52 |
Philaire |
Well, I'm not arguing per se |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
okay, i admit: i don't get the problem really |
| 01:52 |
rubenwardy |
I meant erlehmann |
| 01:52 |
Philaire |
my ph.d. was done on CS UX |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
i'll wait for an elaboration. |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
you win Philaire :D |
| 01:52 |
Philaire |
and the problem I'm highlighting here is : |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
but back to the mods thing |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
maybe you have found some problem that needs to be fixed |
| 01:52 |
erlehmann |
but no one will make 90k mods in an instant, that is unfixable |
| 01:53 |
Philaire |
"If the user come to a program/problem with ideas about it and can't do it, then it's a bug if the features are present but not useable" |
| 01:53 |
erlehmann |
i agree |
| 01:53 |
Philaire |
Totally agree with you on the 90k mods. |
| 01:53 |
Philaire |
One thing I like about MT is the ease of modding. |
| 01:53 |
erlehmann |
yeah so what is the thing that you are looking for? because there exist several skyblock things not on contentdb afaik |
| 01:53 |
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fling joined #minetest |
| 01:54 |
Philaire |
well, for example, if it's not on contentdb, where is it ? |
| 01:54 |
erlehmann |
same as any other software, unclear! but you can look on github.com and git.minetest.land |
| 01:54 |
erlehmann |
those are the things where i look |
| 01:54 |
rubenwardy |
also the forums |
| 01:54 |
rubenwardy |
the forums was the primary place to posts mods before CDB |
| 01:54 |
erlehmann |
i left that out because the search engine already listed two forum topics |
| 01:54 |
Philaire |
this is why I showed you CurseForge, it's basically a huge vitrine for all the mods |
| 01:55 |
erlehmann |
well it's possible that it's not *all* the mods |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
that's what ContentDB is |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB shows topics from the forums as well |
| 01:55 |
erlehmann |
for example, i have made a bunch of mods and none of them are on contentdb bc i bad |
| 01:55 |
erlehmann |
mineclonia is also not on contentdb |
| 01:55 |
Philaire |
This was my guess, Ruben. |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
Well, ContentDB is designed such that all the packages are installable and useful |
| 01:55 |
erlehmann |
it pays off to scour the forums, but a bunch of stuff will be out of date |
| 01:55 |
Philaire |
Right, so I can yeet the "bad experience schtick" at Erlehmann from me :P |
| 01:56 |
Philaire |
still |
| 01:56 |
Philaire |
One suggestion that I'd would love to |
| 01:56 |
erlehmann |
what is the bad experience here, that people are not publishing everything to contentdb? i am 100% sure that is the case for minecraft as well. |
| 01:56 |
rubenwardy |
which means that not everything can be on CDB, and if it is on there it needs to be properly entered |
| 01:56 |
erlehmann |
but yeah, i am guilty as charged and should put my stuff on cdb |
| 01:56 |
erlehmann |
also client side mods are not on cdb |
| 01:56 |
Philaire |
is that some of the very famous modpacks on MC should be ported to MT |
| 01:57 |
erlehmann |
Philaire are you doing it? if its in the context of mcl2 or mineclonia, i'm happy to give advice |
| 01:57 |
Philaire |
and as for not publishing everything on contentdb, sure, but we're facing 90k mods |
| 01:57 |
Philaire |
well, I'd love to |
| 01:57 |
erlehmann |
i mean, i have plans as well, but very little energy rn |
| 01:57 |
erlehmann |
for example, chameleon creepers |
| 01:57 |
erlehmann |
i wanna change creepers so that they match the grass palette |
| 01:58 |
erlehmann |
it's easily doable because obv i just need to have some on_step function that changes this color |
| 01:58 |
erlehmann |
and desaturate the creeper texture |
| 01:58 |
erlehmann |
but i have not done it |
| 01:58 |
Philaire |
since you're asking for ideas |
| 01:58 |
Philaire |
that's why I was wondering about machines |
| 01:58 |
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| 01:58 |
erlehmann |
look at mesecons and technic |
| 01:58 |
Philaire |
one mod I'm fond of in Minecraft is the MineFactoryReloaded |
| 01:58 |
Philaire |
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-mods/1292152-powercrystals-mods-minefactoryreloaded#mfr |
| 01:58 |
erlehmann |
and pipeworks |
| 01:59 |
erlehmann |
AFAIK pipeworks has abominations like “this pipe runs lua code to determine where the item goes” |
| 01:59 |
erlehmann |
and mesecons has “microcontrollers” where you can enter lua code in game |
| 01:59 |
Philaire |
Saw that earlier on. |
| 02:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> pipeworks should work in mcl now |
| 02:01 |
erlehmann |
what had to be changed for taht? |
| 02:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> not much |
| 02:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> aka, stop being lazy and read the dif |
| 02:01 |
erlehmann |
care to give me a link? |
| 02:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and pipe your complaints to /dev/null |
| 02:01 |
erlehmann |
this is relevant to my interests |
| 02:02 |
erlehmann |
because i think mcl2 is totally going to break it lol |
| 02:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i wouldnt be suprised |
| 02:02 |
Philaire |
Second, and that's going to be basically the same criticism, main mods of MC have even wikis dedicated to it |
| 02:02 |
Philaire |
so you know where to find the info |
| 02:02 |
Philaire |
I googled "technic minetest mod", and I am getting contradictory sources |
| 02:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> there are two main versions, one is basically dead |
| 02:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic and https://github.com/mt-mods/technic |
| 02:04 |
Philaire |
(I'm tempted to complain that gitlab for pipeworks forces me to a Captcha, but I don't want to troll erlehmann :P ) |
| 02:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> pipeworks isnt on gitlab |
| 02:04 |
Philaire |
https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/ ? |
| 02:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://github.com/mt-mods/pipeworks |
| 02:05 |
erlehmann |
well i googled "climate change" just now and it claimed to have 299 000 000 results. i then went to page 21 of search results and … upon calling their bluff, it says “page 21 of about 203 results”. |
| 02:05 |
Philaire |
*grunting and groaning noises* |
| 02:05 |
erlehmann |
you can repeat this for almost every search query. a random university library will give you more hits for some common queries :D |
| 02:06 |
erlehmann |
back to pipeworks, i have no idea what the canonical repo is |
| 02:06 |
erlehmann |
does something like a canonical repo even exist for stuff that is not on contentdb? |
| 02:07 |
Philaire |
erlehmann : well, it would be nice to have something like a SRP for ContentDB. |
| 02:07 |
erlehmann |
SRP? |
| 02:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> not like contentdb has a source link or anything erlehmann |
| 02:07 |
Philaire |
Single Responsability Principle |
| 02:07 |
erlehmann |
Philaire, please elaborate |
| 02:07 |
Philaire |
like "put all things that are on a single authority" |
| 02:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i wouldnt use srp in minetest circles, everyone will think you are talking about how it does passwords ? |
| 02:08 |
erlehmann |
i don't get it. if it's on contentdb, you have a canonical source link, like jonathon said |
| 02:08 |
erlehmann |
if it's not on contentdb, here be dragons |
| 02:08 |
erlehmann |
that's true for every single software |
| 02:08 |
Philaire |
See, this time, it's my fault |
| 02:08 |
erlehmann |
it's not anyone's fault |
| 02:08 |
Philaire |
No, it's my fault, here |
| 02:08 |
erlehmann |
it's obviously some systemic issue |
| 02:09 |
erlehmann |
what was your fault exactly? |
| 02:09 |
Philaire |
I didn't think you could browse mods easily on ContentDB |
| 02:09 |
Philaire |
so I used google primarily |
| 02:09 |
Philaire |
this being said, |
| 02:09 |
Philaire |
now, |
| 02:09 |
erlehmann |
okay, i agree. google is really bad as a search engine lately. |
| 02:09 |
Philaire |
if I type "pipeworks" I'm effectively on the right track |
| 02:09 |
Philaire |
and I can see the good repo on github |
| 02:09 |
erlehmann |
i have written software myself and some articles about obscure topics |
| 02:10 |
erlehmann |
and in the past, google found that software and also the articles |
| 02:10 |
erlehmann |
nowadays, it only finds pages that *link* to that software or those articles |
| 02:10 |
Philaire |
except we're not speaking 'bout google |
| 02:10 |
Philaire |
but "what is the correct way to use and find mods for MT" |
| 02:10 |
erlehmann |
which is hilarious, because according to my understanding of pagerank, if the top 10 search results all link to the same page maybe that should be the top result instead? |
| 02:10 |
erlehmann |
the correct way is to use the ingame mod browser or the contentdb website |
| 02:11 |
erlehmann |
if that fails, go to the forums, as rubenwardy said |
| 02:11 |
Philaire |
which is why I was saying it was my fault |
| 02:11 |
erlehmann |
next, search github / gitlab / git.minetest.land |
| 02:11 |
Philaire |
since I did google first |
| 02:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> use cdb, if its not there, use the forums, if not there, use google for a git host link |
| 02:11 |
Philaire |
then cdb last |
| 02:11 |
Philaire |
this being said now |
| 02:11 |
erlehmann |
as i said, google has become hilariously bad in finding obscure information lately |
| 02:11 |
Philaire |
I'd be willing to port some nice mods from MC to MT |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
and minetest mods not on cdb or forums are likely to be obscure |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
Philaire, cool, which ones? |
| 02:12 |
Philaire |
well, I'm not sure |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
Philaire i am interested! |
| 02:12 |
Philaire |
depends on how hard it is |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
if you can contribute stuff to mineclone2 or mineclonia i'd be interested too. |
| 02:12 |
Philaire |
same answer |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
because basically, if you rely on minecraft style of API and know it well, you might be able to give good advice |
| 02:12 |
Philaire |
no |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
for how to structure it so that minecraft mods are easy to port |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
not a good advice |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
oh okay |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
for even if I knew it sufficiently |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
architecture either stinks |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
either is different from MT |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
are you saying the mc API is bullshit |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
no |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
ok |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
officially, there's no API |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
okay, yeah i get it |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
there are prob a few different mod loaders |
| 02:13 |
Philaire |
I'm saying that the code is ugly |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
that patch the binary? |
| 02:14 |
erlehmann |
or do a reflection dance |
| 02:14 |
Philaire |
but that the mod loaders authors are doing amazing work |
| 02:14 |
Philaire |
given how MC works |
| 02:14 |
Philaire |
still, putting a cherry ontop of a sh**cake doesn't make the whole slice tasty |
| 02:14 |
erlehmann |
sheesecake |
| 02:14 |
erlehmann |
rather peculiar spelling |
| 02:14 |
erlehmann |
:D |
| 02:15 |
Philaire |
two letters too much :P |
| 02:15 |
Philaire |
But still |
| 02:15 |
erlehmann |
could you port agatha rose's asbestos mod? |
| 02:15 |
Philaire |
I teach Java to my students |
| 02:15 |
Philaire |
meaning I can't use MT as a teaching source |
| 02:15 |
erlehmann |
well, that's probably better than teaching them lua lol |
| 02:15 |
erlehmann |
lua is an absolute pain of a language |
| 02:15 |
Philaire |
otherwise, "port mod X to MT" would be a recurring assignment |
| 02:15 |
erlehmann |
you are one typo away from a nil error at any time |
| 02:16 |
erlehmann |
Philaire can it not be one? because they'd figure out how to port apps from java |
| 02:17 |
Philaire |
I can't ask them to code in Lua |
| 02:17 |
erlehmann |
i mean, bad coders can write PHP in any language, but for creating blueprints etc. |
| 02:17 |
erlehmann |
yeah but you could ask them to figure out how to do the same thing in another programming paradigm? |
| 02:17 |
Philaire |
no, I can't |
| 02:17 |
erlehmann |
oh okay |
| 02:17 |
Philaire |
I've already danced around the question, y'know |
| 02:17 |
erlehmann |
well, maybe you can ask them to improve amidst :D |
| 02:17 |
erlehmann |
are you asking for java bindings for minetest |
| 02:18 |
Philaire |
"java bindings for minetest" |
| 02:18 |
erlehmann |
so you are? |
| 02:18 |
Philaire |
I take "worse idea than putting a fork in an electric socket for $10,00" |
| 02:18 |
erlehmann |
well, i'm not paying you for either |
| 02:19 |
Philaire |
that's a joke, mate ;) |
| 02:19 |
Philaire |
jeopardy reference |
| 02:19 |
erlehmann |
i see |
| 02:19 |
Philaire |
you know what jeopardy is ? :) |
| 02:19 |
erlehmann |
well, they don't use dollars in france anyway, right? |
| 02:19 |
Philaire |
nah, we don't |
| 02:19 |
erlehmann |
great, i have a question for you though |
| 02:19 |
Philaire |
ask ahead |
| 02:20 |
Philaire |
then I hit bed asap |
| 02:20 |
Philaire |
it's 3.20 |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
is it really a domestic flight to the ESA country in south america, french guyana? |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
i'm in germany, it's the same time here |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
like, can i, as a european union citizen, visit the rainforest? |
| 02:20 |
Philaire |
I need to wake up at 7.15 |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
uh-oh |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
if it is part of france proper, that's probably a cool holiday (if it's not too expensive, which i fear it may be) |
| 02:21 |
Philaire |
well |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
like if they use eurodollars |
| 02:21 |
Philaire |
to answer you |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
and you can see the space launcher and the rainforests |
| 02:21 |
Philaire |
visiting FG |
| 02:21 |
Philaire |
that only requires a passport or an ID card |
| 02:21 |
Philaire |
since you're from EU |
| 02:21 |
Philaire |
and it's effectively EU terr |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
customs or weird border police shenanigans? or like entering any other EU country? |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
i.e. they only check your ID (and only if they are interested) |
| 02:22 |
Philaire |
it's a French region |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
yeah, but EU territories out of europe are super weird regulation wise |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
that is why i am asking |
| 02:22 |
Philaire |
outside of that |
| 02:22 |
Philaire |
I have no clue |
| 02:23 |
Philaire |
my domain is CS |
| 02:23 |
Philaire |
not Geo/Pol |
| 02:23 |
erlehmann |
well, i thought maybe it got taught in geography class or so ^^ |
| 02:23 |
erlehmann |
i mean germany doesn't really have colonies |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
so we never learn about anything like that |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
i was surprised that it's a part of france proper even |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
i just knew it as the place where the ariane rockets start |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
Philaire where is your thesis hosted? |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
could i look into it? |
| 02:24 |
Philaire |
sure |
| 02:24 |
Philaire |
but later |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
no hurries |
| 02:24 |
Philaire |
i'm falling alseep |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
just text me |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
and go sleep |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
good night! |
| 02:25 |
Philaire |
one last thing |
| 02:25 |
Philaire |
is there a discord MT? |
| 02:25 |
erlehmann |
somehow a discord is linked to this channel |
| 02:25 |
erlehmann |
but i have no idea why |
| 02:25 |
erlehmann |
if you are already using discord, it could make sense to use the bridge |
| 02:26 |
Philaire |
head out, then |
| 02:26 |
Philaire |
ninight |
| 02:26 |
erlehmann |
but AFAIK IRC is the medium of choice for most stuff |
| 02:26 |
erlehmann |
!tell Philaire https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord |
| 02:26 |
MinetestBot |
erlehmann: I'll pass that on when Philaire is around |
| 02:27 |
erlehmann |
i find the “edit any person's message, with no permissions needed, by sending a custom API request” thing the most damning there |
| 02:27 |
erlehmann |
> Given the severity of this bug, and that Discord operates a bug bounty program, you'd think there would be a sweet reward for this. In fact, the person who discovered it got a couple of codes for premium subscriptions. |
| 02:27 |
erlehmann |
^^ |
| 02:31 |
|
GreenXenith joined #minetest |
| 02:32 |
GreenXenith |
!tell Philaire Dont let other people tell you what platforms are "good or not", use what you are comfortable with. You can join our active official Discord server at https://discord.gg/minetest :) |
| 02:32 |
MinetestBot |
GreenXenith: yeah, yeah |
| 02:34 |
erlehmann |
it doesn't actually say “do not use discord” |
| 02:34 |
erlehmann |
(the blog post is from a person actually using discord) |
| 02:39 |
rubenwardy |
I don't trust computers yet I still use them |
| 02:43 |
erlehmann |
look, i am sending everyone who mentions discord that link so they can make an informed decision. |
| 02:44 |
wsor |
cough discord |
| 02:45 |
erlehmann |
and cadence isn't just anyone |
| 02:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> would you like me to give you a link about why IRC is antiquated every time you mention IRC? |
| 02:47 |
erlehmann |
if there were comparable problems, yes. when i suggest any chat service to anyone, i give them a rundown of the issues. |
| 02:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Thats great man, but presumably if someone asks about Discord, theyve already made the choice to use Discord. |
| 02:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> You arent the one suggesting they use Discord, so according to what youve just said, you dont need to try to convince them of anything |
| 02:48 |
erlehmann |
maybe i am mistaken, but if the discord thing sees the exact same thing as this channel, then isn't it relevant what the drawbacks are? |
| 02:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> If someone asks for the Minetest IRC I dont say "there is one but you should use Discord", I give them the channel names and point to the bridge |
| 02:49 |
rubenwardy |
? |
| 02:49 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> So quit interjecting your opinion about Discord into our lives when all people want is the invite link |
| 02:49 |
|
sobkas joined #minetest |
| 02:50 |
erlehmann |
i guess if i stop pointing out the drawbacks of every single thing that is mentioned then to not upset you? |
| 02:50 |
erlehmann |
i'll ask Philaire if it was unnecessary noise once that person comes back |
| 02:50 |
erlehmann |
if yes, it convinces me that i should stop doing it for discord at least |
| 02:51 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I think a lot of people would be relieved if you stopped pointing out a lot of things |
| 02:51 |
erlehmann |
ok? |
| 02:51 |
erlehmann |
yeah, but i am pretty sure my habit of reflexively pointing out negative things is at the core of it |
| 02:51 |
erlehmann |
or not? |
| 02:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> quote from yesterday > i am a dumbo and should be quiet |
| 02:53 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Discovering the root of bad habits sounds like a personal journey. All I want is for you to stop waving a protest sign every time someone mentions Discord. |
| 02:54 |
erlehmann |
what i'm saying is, it's not discord-specific |
| 02:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> If you say so |
| 02:55 |
erlehmann |
i mean my answer to “wuold you like if i point out why IRC is antiquated” query is “yeah, go ahead” |
| 02:55 |
rubenwardy |
my answer is please stop |
| 02:55 |
erlehmann |
ok! |
| 02:56 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith, actually, do you have an “why IRC sucks” article on hand? i could actually use that. not to spam it when IRC is mentioned, but when people ask “should we use IRC?” when a group is constituting itself. |
| 02:56 |
|
fling joined #minetest |
| 02:56 |
erlehmann |
i'm sorry for annoying you :/ |
| 02:57 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Your probably annoying ruben more at this point |
| 02:57 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> youre* |
| 02:57 |
rubenwardy |
he's pinged me 6 times today |
| 02:57 |
rubenwardy |
jokes |
| 02:58 |
erlehmann |
oof? |
| 02:58 |
erlehmann |
you mean highlighted? |
| 02:58 |
erlehmann |
or like /ping |
| 02:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> and no I dont have an article for that on hand because no one wants to waste their time on that sort of thing I guess |
| 02:59 |
erlehmann |
uh, oh |
| 02:59 |
erlehmann |
well then stop asking such questions if you can't handle a “yes, go ahead” |
| 02:59 |
erlehmann |
regardless, good night |
| 02:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> what questions? |
| 02:59 |
rubenwardy |
Discord users are too busy in school to make an article |
| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Thank you for your contribution rubenwardy ? |
| 03:00 |
erlehmann |
rubenwardy you definitely win the flaming contest here ^^ |
| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Oh, the "would you like" question |
| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Hypotheticals are such a novel concept arent they |
| 03:00 |
erlehmann |
oh, my mistake then |
| 03:01 |
erlehmann |
i thought it was more like … a threat |
| 03:01 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Haha, no |
| 03:01 |
rubenwardy |
one thing we can agree on is that discord is a source of discord |
| 03:01 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The point of the question was to say "doing this is annoying and kinda rude to anyone that asks or uses it, I wouldnt want me to do it or have it done to me" |
| 03:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> <insert gathering place of people here> is a source of discord |
| 03:02 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith, another thing then, you said you were working on some thing that was much better than the poorly cobbled together node entity thing that cora and me had resurrected. is it done by now? |
| 03:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> https://github.com/GreenXenith/lvae/ ? |
| 03:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> youve asked this before |
| 03:02 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith i would very much like it if you said that directly next time i am behaving in a way that you find annoying |
| 03:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Fair enough |
| 03:02 |
erlehmann |
yeah but you suggested that it would be improved somehow |
| 03:03 |
erlehmann |
if i understand it correctly, this is just the API? |
| 03:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Thats all its intended to be |
| 03:03 |
erlehmann |
okay, so are there any mods using it? |
| 03:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Unlikely, its not a commonly needed thing |
| 03:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> And I dont really advertise it |
| 03:03 |
erlehmann |
oh, why did you make it then, if not for a mod that might use it? |
| 03:04 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Because I want to use it for my own mods |
| 03:04 |
erlehmann |
but you did not, yet? or are they not public? |
| 03:04 |
erlehmann |
i mean you are right about meshnode, it supports only very basic stuff |
| 03:04 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> And are you seriously asking me why I made something? Me? Who makes random mods like hexagons and circular hotbars just for fun? |
| 03:04 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> ;p |
| 03:04 |
erlehmann |
oh yeah, i forgot who i am talking to |
| 03:04 |
rubenwardy |
kinf of concept |
| 03:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> pro tip, if you want something fast from green, tell them that it cant be done, and to prove you wrong with a proof of concept |
| 03:05 |
erlehmann |
but basically what i wanted to know is if the “one will be released in the near future” thing is still true |
| 03:05 |
erlehmann |
oh, that's funny |
| 03:05 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith i think it's impossible to actually have minecarts with inventories in mineclone2 |
| 03:05 |
erlehmann |
(that was too specific, was it?) |
| 03:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I think he meant things that most people agree cant be done |
| 03:06 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith, if there is something half-finished, i'd like to see it, even if it's not on contentdb. |
| 03:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> entities with inventories is a solved problem |
| 03:06 |
erlehmann |
oh, hmm, wait then |
| 03:08 |
erlehmann |
i bet it is impossible to have a game in which gravity goes multiple ways (orbital dynamics etc.)( |
| 03:08 |
erlehmann |
i mean |
| 03:08 |
erlehmann |
that's a stupid idea |
| 03:08 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> erl: check out the https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22464 mod, i believe that is cart with invs |
| 03:08 |
erlehmann |
because we all know how to do this |
| 03:08 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I dont recall saying such a mod would be released "soon", but lets say I did: The mod I built lvae for doesnt exist in a state which uses lvae |
| 03:08 |
erlehmann |
thanks MisterE |
| 03:08 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> LVAE was originally built as a mod to make ships, and it existed in a functioning state, and Ive already shown you what it looked like |
| 03:08 |
erlehmann |
the repo literally said “LVAE can be used to make a similar mod (and one will be released in the near future).” |
| 03:09 |
erlehmann |
but i get it, you are not done |
| 03:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Oh, touche` |
| 03:09 |
erlehmann |
yeah |
| 03:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> That was a lie then, retroactively |
| 03:09 |
erlehmann |
so that's the only thing i am asking about |
| 03:09 |
erlehmann |
it's not to annoy you |
| 03:09 |
erlehmann |
just because i thought you were maybe still working on it |
| 03:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> thats the sort of thing I could probably glue together in under an hour |
| 03:10 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> or you could, you know ;p |
| 03:10 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> promises, promises ? these projects have a way to scaling in the time axis |
| 03:10 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> *of |
| 03:10 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> at least lvae exists |
| 03:10 |
erlehmann |
well, i have no idea how |
| 03:10 |
erlehmann |
yeah, but a functioning meshnode thing for mcl2 exists too |
| 03:10 |
erlehmann |
and it took me and cora many hours for it |
| 03:11 |
erlehmann |
just to make meshnode handle some stuff |
| 03:11 |
erlehmann |
that it could not before |
| 03:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> lvae took me 3 years to make |
| 03:11 |
erlehmann |
and not make holes in bedrock lol |
| 03:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> x) |
| 03:11 |
erlehmann |
what i am saying: i would be very bad at using LVAE |
| 03:11 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith, proof of concept wise, do you know any orbital mechanics mod? |
| 03:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> what exactly do you want from the mod? The "near future" mod it refers to is one to make ships |
| 03:11 |
erlehmann |
like runge kutta integration gravity stuff |
| 03:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I dont think anyone has messed with very advanced physics in Minetest much, due to engine limitations |
| 03:12 |
erlehmann |
ships and possibly airships |
| 03:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> ok, just making sure |
| 03:12 |
erlehmann |
the thing is, i have a very simple dea |
| 03:12 |
erlehmann |
idea |
| 03:12 |
erlehmann |
1. wooden stuff gives buyoancy |
| 03:12 |
erlehmann |
in water |
| 03:12 |
erlehmann |
2. wool gives buyoancy in air |
| 03:13 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I kinda hate the meshnode method of sticking blocks together so I might use that old airship mod method and use a special platform to build from |
| 03:13 |
erlehmann |
3. some sort of control node that you can place |
| 03:13 |
erlehmann |
the meshnode thing is really tedious |
| 03:13 |
erlehmann |
what is the airship mod method? flood fill but dou stop at the “special platform” ? |
| 03:13 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I believe so |
| 03:13 |
erlehmann |
you |
| 03:13 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> my original shipmaker mod did that but with water instead (flood fill but stop at water) |
| 03:14 |
erlehmann |
well that could get ugly if someone puts the controller on the ground lol |
| 03:14 |
erlehmann |
so what did it do when someone put it on a mountain? |
| 03:14 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> if the controller is on the ground then it isnt on the platform now is it |
| 03:14 |
erlehmann |
or on the coast |
| 03:14 |
erlehmann |
uh, maybe explain the platform thing more |
| 03:14 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I would if I could remember it better |
| 03:14 |
erlehmann |
could you give me just a link to your shipmaker mod? |
| 03:14 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I used it like once a long time ago |
| 03:14 |
erlehmann |
so can try it |
| 03:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> no, the shipmaker mod was what lvae was in the beginning |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
ah! |
| 03:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> before I turned it into a general purpose Voxel Area Entity mod |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
well, the problem “someone puts a bug ball of wool on a mountain and flies away with it” is kinda funny |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
maybe it is not meant to be solved |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
because then people can steal other people's bases |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
:D |
| 03:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I was making all these custom entity nodes and realized "hey this would be useful as an API" |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
bug → big |
| 03:15 |
erlehmann |
yeah obv |
| 03:16 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> the airship mod I was thinking of: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6184 |
| 03:16 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> 9 years old :^) |
| 03:17 |
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MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It had some stricter rules on what you could use to build with |
| 03:17 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I originally just had an arbitrary size limit and non-usable nodes, that may just be the best way to do it |
| 03:18 |
erlehmann |
well, in mcl_meshnode we decided to have the meshnode method of gluing, but you could not glue bedrock or so to it |
| 03:18 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> must be <=n amount of nodes, where air, water, and some special support nodes arent flood filled |
| 03:18 |
erlehmann |
and i think we may have had extra handling of entity nodes |
| 03:18 |
erlehmann |
that isn't really good |
| 03:19 |
erlehmann |
how are you handling nodes like mcl chests or double chests or crystals in LVAE? |
| 03:19 |
erlehmann |
(not at all?) |
| 03:20 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Entities are obviously not nodes so lvae doesnt care about them. Theoretically if node callbacks are implemented then custom entity nodes could be supported but thats not a priority |
| 03:20 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Even with a real Voxel Area Entity system you would have the same issue |
| 03:21 |
erlehmann |
yes |
| 03:21 |
erlehmann |
that is why i am asking |
| 03:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> so your custom handling is a necessity anyway |
| 03:21 |
erlehmann |
chests in mcl games can be nodes or entities |
| 03:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> you could still do custom handling with lvae though |
| 03:21 |
erlehmann |
and i wonder what would be the best way to support mods such as LVAE |
| 03:22 |
erlehmann |
like, maybe write the entity in meta somehow? but what to write? |
| 03:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> ? |
| 03:23 |
erlehmann |
okay lol |
| 03:23 |
erlehmann |
^^ |
| 03:23 |
erlehmann |
i mean, ultimately, i think the engine should support some nodetype where this shenanigans are not needed |
| 03:23 |
erlehmann |
but unclear to me how |
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| 20:44 |
luizsab |
hello. When I dig a aple tree the apples are floating in the air, is it normal? |
| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> hi |
| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> do you play MTG? |
| 20:49 |
gh00p |
luizsab, only some blocks will fall if you dig underneath them, like sand or gravel. Most other blocks will stay floating if you undermine them. |
| 20:54 |
luizsab |
gh00p but leaves falls I was thinking the apples will be with the same behavior |
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| 21:01 |
gh00p |
luizsab, leaves fall because trees need wood to support them, but you can *place* leaves and remove what's under them and they will stay. |
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luizsab |
that's strange apples floating when there's no more tree |
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| 22:25 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> could someone carefully explain the basics of lua mapgen to me? |
| 22:27 |
sfan5 |
you make sure the engine mapgen is set to singlenode and then register a on_generated callback which should generate the world inside the minpos, maxpos it was given |
| 22:27 |
sfan5 |
were these the basics you were hoping for? |
| 22:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i used https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6396 to understand the basics, since its not really optimized, etc. once you understand that, paramat has a basic mapgen thats been optimized |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19836 <paramats |
| 22:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> sorry, I was afk, im back now |
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| 22:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> sfan5, I got that much, but how to do it exactly is where I have trouble. Looking at Jonathan's post... |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> @school of hard knocks, Inc so I started with paramat's, and its a bit confusing |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I will start with the first onw |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> so....user error |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ? |
| 22:43 |
sfan5 |
well you literally have to decide about every single node |
| 22:44 |
sfan5 |
if you want to generate terrain that is reminiscent of MTs v7 then yes paramat's example is right for you |
| 22:44 |
sfan5 |
if you want to fill half the world with stone and the other half with air then not so much |
| 22:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^ https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=superflat both of these are good for that |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> rdococ being the one to start with |
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| 23:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> local a = VoxelArea:new{ MinEdge={x=emin.x, y=emin.y, z=emin.z}, MaxEdge={x=emax.x, y=emax.y, z=emax.z}, } |
| 23:00 |
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MTDiscord |
<MisterE> why not just have MinEdge = emin? |
| 23:06 |
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MTDiscord |
<MisterE> could someone explain this: lua local nvals = noise:get3dMap_flat({x=minp.x, y=minp.y, z=minp.z}) local ni = 1 for z = minp.z, maxp.z do for y = minp.y, maxp.y do for x = minp.x, maxp.x do if nvals[ni] - (y - 25) / 55 > 0.5 then local vi = a:index(x, y, z) if y < 1 then data[vi] = c_dirt else data[vi] = c_grass end elseif y < |
| 23:08 |
MTDiscord |
1 then local vi = a:index(x, y, z) data[vi] = c_water end ni = ni + 1 end end end |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> specifically the following questions: |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> what is ni? |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> if nvals[ni] - (y - 25) / 55 > 0.5 then |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> and what does that do? |
| 23:09 |
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MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> this is a irc channel, use a pastebin |
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MTDiscord |
<MisterE> got it |
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| 23:33 |
erlehmann |
mister, this is a wendy's |
| 23:35 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> ni stands for noise index, the index into the table of values from the 3d perlin noise map |
| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> the equation I think is pretty arbitrary, it determines if a block should go there based on the noise value |
| 23:37 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> paramats example has a simpler version with a better explanation about density or something |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> its also a pretty lame way to calculate where to put grass ? |
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MinetestBot |
Philaire: Mar-20 02:26 UTC <erlehmann> https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord |
| 23:41 |
MinetestBot |
Philaire: Mar-20 02:32 UTC <GreenXenith> Dont let other people tell you what platforms are "good or not", use what you are comfortable with. You can join our active official Discord server at https://discord.gg/minetest :) |
| 23:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ok, I understand the voxel manipulator, (i got rid of the noise) now to tackle noise |
| 23:59 |
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