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MinetestBot |
TurkeyMcMac: Sep-21 12:00 UTC <appguru> Thank you very much for the error handler PR. |
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MinetestBot |
[git] aerkiaga -> minetest/minetest: Briefly explain how facedir rotations work (#11934) 5ced5c9 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5ced5c9b27a3c534bcbd7d095affe2f65d07e9b1 (2022-09-25T11:45:02Z) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] coldtobi -> minetest/minetest: Fix two spelling mistakes 7069d99 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7069d99aa6d38afb4f0b8862d9c0e28328ecfd41 (2022-09-25T11:45:27Z) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] appgurueu -> minetest/minetest: Fix double escape in update checker dialog 8dec3a5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8dec3a5ecbc6f74e2ca5d59f7bd905b8b136a591 (2022-09-25T11:45:37Z) |
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sfan5 |
test message please ignore |
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Topic for #minetest is now The official Minetest channel | Latest version: 5.6.1 (2022-09-19) | General, player and modding discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: https://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest |
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| 17:02 |
Duvalon |
Hello. What is the vertical_blend attribute for biome generation supposed to do? lua_api says "Vertical distance in nodes above 'y_max' over which the biome will blend with the biome above." |
| 17:02 |
Duvalon |
But in my tests I just get a straight horizontal line separation no matter what I put in there. |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Why are the minetest forums 10x slower than their normal slowness? |
| 17:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/749727888659447960/1023264017814405220 |
| 17:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2022-09-24#i_6018302 for the irc folk |
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MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Thx |
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hmmmm |
so when are you gona REWRITE IT IN RUST? |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Never, doesn't worth it |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> too late, already working on it |
| 21:02 |
hmmmm |
<Duvalon> Hello. What is the vertical_blend attribute for biome generation supposed to do? lua_api says "Vertical distance in nodes above 'y_max' over which the biome will blend with the biome above." |
| 21:02 |
hmmmm |
wat |
| 21:02 |
hmmmm |
did somebody change biome generation? |
| 21:03 |
hmmmm |
or did i add this feature? i can't remember |
| 21:04 |
hmmmm |
sounds to me like y_max is the threshold at which biomes will begin linearly interpolating with the biome at the same x,z calculated with the new y |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:04 |
hmmmm |
vertical_blend sounds to me like the rate at which such interpolation occurs |
| 21:05 |
hmmmm |
i'm confused because this sounds like a feature i was working on at some point but i don't remember ever making a PR for it |
| 21:05 |
hmmmm |
ugh I've been wanting to do a clean break from MT to try out everything i've learned about procedural generation |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
that approach to having two distinct biomes at different heights that blend into each other sounds logically appealing but might be too overcomplicated |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
but how else are you gonna get snow caps on mountains |
| 21:08 |
hmmmm |
ultimately, biome noise should be 3d or else that'd get boring fast |
| 21:08 |
Desour |
3d biomes sounds more useful in underground |
| 21:09 |
hmmmm |
because most air is unpopulated, sure |
| 21:09 |
Desour |
(mountains in minetest are usually too small to have different climate or vegetation on the top) |
| 21:10 |
hmmmm |
you can "optimize" noise for above-ground by only generating it on demand (when there is a non-air node that exists in said chunk) |
| 21:10 |
hmmmm |
are chunks still 5x5x5 by default? |
| 21:11 |
hmmmm |
well that depends on the mapgen and the specific mapgen parameters. you can't make assumptions about what kind of terrain you'll have for things independent of the mapgen itself |
| 21:11 |
hmmmm |
biomes are supposed to technically be an attribute imbued on top of the map itself, like decorations and other misc. "objects" |
| 21:12 |
hmmmm |
or at least that was the original concept. i haven't looked at the current code but you guys probably butchered it lol |
| 21:13 |
hmmmm |
so i guess "mapgen" is a bit of a misnomer for what i was aiming for... more like "landgen", and then the "biomegen" and "decoration gen" and "dungeongen" come together to make said "mapgen" |
| 21:20 |
Duvalon |
interesting... |
| 21:21 |
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| 21:22 |
Duvalon |
hmmmm: that's just it, I don't think there's vertical interpolation at all |
| 21:23 |
hmmmm |
ugh i can't believe you're getting me to look at minetest code |
| 21:24 |
Duvalon |
hmmmm: you don't actually have to :D |
| 21:26 |
hmmmm |
ahh no it's not a parameter for a lerp you're right, it seems to be the width of the region where biome dithering begins |
| 21:27 |
hmmmm |
same as with the x and z coords |
| 21:28 |
hmmmm |
seems like nerzuhl was touching my biome code but paramat fixed it |
| 21:28 |
Duvalon |
:-| |
| 21:28 |
hmmmm |
does nerz still add memory safety bugs in his code? lol |
| 21:28 |
Duvalon |
I wouldn't know... |
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| 21:39 |
hmmmm |
has anybody audited minetest code at all? |
| 21:39 |
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| 21:40 |
hmmmm |
even just the free coverity scan? |
| 21:44 |
schwarzwald[m] |
hmmmm: Yes, we have that. |
| 21:44 |
schwarzwald[m] |
You need access from the core devs in order to see the report, I believe. |
| 21:44 |
hmmmm |
I am a core dev |
| 21:44 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Then you can probably already see it? |
| 21:44 |
hmmmm |
i haven't even looked, just chatting |
| 21:45 |
hmmmm |
if i get too involved with mt again it's going to suck up all my spare time |
| 21:45 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I remember you I think. You're that core dev who is very friendly and isn't very active anymore IIRC. |
| 21:46 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I was trying to fix 2 bugs from the coverity report every day as a new habit, but I was only able to keep it up for a few days before I didn't have time and it was tiring. |
| 21:46 |
hmmmm |
there was a time when i wasn't friendly at all lol |
| 21:47 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Sorry, I should've said seems friendly. This is the internet after all. |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
no my personality has changed for the better over time |
| 21:48 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I see you also got wise enough not to suck up your spare time on Minetest, haha. |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
yeah, my fear was that the coverity report would spot too many issues and it'd be a flood |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
i feel like maybe new feature contributions should stop at some point and there should be focus on optimizing and fixing |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
we sort of did this before the 0.5.0 release but seems like it's gone off the wall again |
| 21:48 |
schwarzwald[m] |
It looked to me like a flood of minor details that nobody except someone who wanted to exploit them could exploit. |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
yeah that would be my primary concern |
| 21:49 |
hmmmm |
the last thing i'd want to see is people joining a friendly MT server for a friendly session of playing their video games and then they get malware |
| 21:49 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Someday I want to sit down and try to dedicate myself more to learning how to seriously contribute to Minetest maintenance, but this is my first year of university and I probably won't even have time to make more CMake PRs until that is over... |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
i spent most of my time in university working on MT, and then i got into the real world where i coded for a living and that made me burn out completely |
| 21:50 |
hmmmm |
this is probably your only real chance tbh |
| 21:51 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Well, that's a point... maybe my chance is over. I didn't even have time to write my Codingame bot this week. I can't imagine how a university student could have time for open source contribution lol. |
| 21:51 |
hmmmm |
and it's a great community to learn how open source collaboration works without too great of a barrier to entry as with larger, mature projects |
| 21:52 |
hmmmm |
because I never did any homework |
| 21:52 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I want to succeed, gotta do my homework. xD |
| 21:53 |
hmmmm |
but coding mt was more beneficial to my career than spending hours on math proofs that ended up being useless in the real world |
| 21:53 |
hmmmm |
so just saying |
| 21:53 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I always felt that there was a pretty big entry barrier to the project because of the very specific domain and not having anyone who would teach new people. |
| 21:53 |
hmmmm |
yeah the teaching part is a bit rough. celeron and kahrl helped me a lot, and i helped paramat as well as a few others |
| 21:54 |
hmmmm |
time is a very valuable resource |
| 21:54 |
schwarzwald[m] |
It's hard to be more ovelwhelmed than when you're thrown from toy projects into something real and you suddenly realize you know nothing, but you have to figure it out for yourself haha. |
| 21:54 |
hmmmm |
my advice? don't try to be a generalist |
| 21:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> > it's going to suck up all my spare time relatable |
| 21:54 |
hmmmm |
if you like graphics, spend all your time on the shaders and don't even bother trying to fix or review someone else's unrelated PR |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
that way you can actually get "deep" enough to make real contributions without being completely overwhelmed |
| 21:55 |
schwarzwald[m] |
See my problem is that I like fixing bugs. |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
fix bugs only in a specific subsystem |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
MT as a whole is way too overwhelming unless you know it well from working on it several years |
| 21:56 |
hmmmm |
and MT is a "small" open source project, lol |
| 21:56 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Hmm, that is an interesting point. |
| 21:57 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Maybe I should try to capitalize on my work with Minetest's build system so far and not worry about not getting into source code. |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
you're working on the build system??? |
| 21:57 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I have a complete rewrite of the build script in progress. |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
brave dude, i think only a couple others have dared to touch cmake |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
it's the thing that i avoided at all costs unless it was completely necessary because it's such a deep rabbit hole |
| 21:57 |
hmmmm |
you have my support for sure |
| 21:58 |
schwarzwald[m] |
TBF I am scared of breaking some random thing on some 10 year old Windows system because there's a workaround in the source code that requires setting a build flag I don't know about. |
| 21:59 |
Desour |
it would be great if minetest compiled faster |
| 21:59 |
Desour |
it's such a pain |
| 21:59 |
hmmmm |
i am happy that minetest compiles, period |
| 21:59 |
schwarzwald[m] |
You're starting to sound like erlehmann, Desour. |
| 21:59 |
hmmmm |
omg i remember erlehmann |
| 21:59 |
Desour |
schwarzwald[m]: huh, in what way? |
| 21:59 |
hmmmm |
and did vanessa quit? |
| 22:00 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Not in tone, just in desire for a faster compilation. |
| 22:00 |
Desour |
ah |
| 22:00 |
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| 22:00 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I kind of think that a faster compilation is unlikely from a realistic perspective, but I hoped that by revamping the build I would at least make it more maintainable. |
| 22:01 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I have the client building on Linux, I believe, and I downloaded MSVC at uni for the main purpose of running my build on Windows to get that working next. |
| 22:01 |
schwarzwald[m] |
If things go like usual, MacOSX won't get tested until Jordach sees something got merged and blasts my head off. |
| 22:01 |
hmmmm |
it's easy to break compatibility for the more obscure platforms, i kept having to fix freebsd compilation every time i'd come back from a break and there were lots of commits added |
| 22:02 |
schwarzwald[m] |
My OpenBSD laptop decided to quit, while I was trying to get it set up to test erlehmann's own build. |
| 22:02 |
hmmmm |
:/ |
| 22:03 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Someone told me that the important thing for working on the build is to have access to lots of different machines. |
| 22:03 |
hmmmm |
at least there are people still trying to maintain the bsd build, at one point some tried dropping support |
| 22:03 |
hmmmm |
yes that is true, one of the things that *I* was supposed to do but dropped the ball on was maintaining a server of VMs for each build target with jenkins-ci installed |
| 22:04 |
hmmmm |
the mac OSX VM was the biggest pain in the ass |
| 22:04 |
Desour |
schwarzwald[m]: can you enable precompiled headers in minetest? https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/command/target_precompile_headers.html |
| 22:04 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Actually, I have Sunday afternoon to play around... maybe I'll try to compile Minetest on Windows for the first time. |
| 22:05 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Desour, it's certainly possible. |
| 22:07 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Do we have a recommended developer workflow for setting up a git repo on Windows for use with Visual Studio? |
| 22:09 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I think I'll just install git from the official website and try to use that. |
| 22:18 |
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| 22:20 |
rubenwardy |
hmmmm: VanessaE retired from MT and handed all her mods and servers to other people |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:24 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I installed vcpkg in a subdirectory in my user. I'm guessing I already messed up. |
| 22:24 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Since it clearly isn't on my PATH. |
| 22:24 |
rubenwardy |
vcpkg shouldn't be in your path |
| 22:24 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Ah, ok. |
| 22:24 |
rubenwardy |
you tend to install it per project, I put it inside the project dir |
| 22:25 |
rubenwardy |
I suppose you could share the vcpkg, I prefer not to to keep things separate |
| 22:25 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I like to save space and bandwidth. |
| 22:26 |
schwarzwald[m] |
It's only been a half hour, I haven't even configured the IrrlichtMt build, and I'm already feeling the pain of developing on Windows. |
| 22:31 |
schwarzwald[m] |
> Wait until cmake have generated the cash file |
| 22:31 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Typo in the README |
| 22:31 |
schwarzwald[m] |
* > Wait until cmake have generated the cash file |
| 22:31 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Typo in the README |
| 22:31 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I would PR to fix this right now except I haven't even set up SSH keys let alone my GPG signing on Windows. |
| 22:32 |
schwarzwald[m] |
> If there are any errors, solve them and hit Configure |
| 22:32 |
schwarzwald[m] |
"solve them" |
| 22:32 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Pro advice. |
| 22:34 |
Desour |
that hint solves world hunger |
| 22:34 |
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| 22:59 |
* schwarzwald[m] |
sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c83ad92074cda174d1d127e6d68c70226720a0fc |
| 22:59 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I just did the `vcpkg.exe install ...` command, and it completed successfully and listed a bunch of targets it set up. |
| 23:06 |
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