Time Nick Message 10:12 MinetestBot TurkeyMcMac: Sep-21 12:00 UTC Thank you very much for the error handler PR. 11:46 MinetestBot 02[git] 04aerkiaga -> 03minetest/minetest: Briefly explain how facedir rotations work (#11934) 135ced5c9 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5ced5c9b27a3c534bcbd7d095affe2f65d07e9b1 (152022-09-25T11:45:02Z) 11:46 MinetestBot 02[git] 04coldtobi -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix two spelling mistakes 137069d99 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7069d99aa6d38afb4f0b8862d9c0e28328ecfd41 (152022-09-25T11:45:27Z) 11:46 MinetestBot 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix double escape in update checker dialog 138dec3a5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8dec3a5ecbc6f74e2ca5d59f7bd905b8b136a591 (152022-09-25T11:45:37Z) 12:46 sfan5 test message please ignore 17:02 Duvalon Hello. What is the vertical_blend attribute for biome generation supposed to do? lua_api says "Vertical distance in nodes above 'y_max' over which the biome will blend with the biome above." 17:02 Duvalon But in my tests I just get a straight horizontal line separation no matter what I put in there. 17:06 MTDiscord Why are the minetest forums 10x slower than their normal slowness? 17:10 MTDiscord https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/749727888659447960/1023264017814405220 17:11 MTDiscord https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2022-09-24#i_6018302 for the irc folk 17:12 MTDiscord Thx 20:58 hmmmm so when are you gona REWRITE IT IN RUST? 21:00 MTDiscord Never, doesn't worth it 21:02 MTDiscord too late, already working on it 21:02 hmmmm Hello. What is the vertical_blend attribute for biome generation supposed to do? lua_api says "Vertical distance in nodes above 'y_max' over which the biome will blend with the biome above." 21:02 hmmmm wat 21:02 hmmmm did somebody change biome generation? 21:03 hmmmm or did i add this feature? i can't remember 21:04 hmmmm sounds to me like y_max is the threshold at which biomes will begin linearly interpolating with the biome at the same x,z calculated with the new y 21:04 hmmmm vertical_blend sounds to me like the rate at which such interpolation occurs 21:05 hmmmm i'm confused because this sounds like a feature i was working on at some point but i don't remember ever making a PR for it 21:05 hmmmm ugh I've been wanting to do a clean break from MT to try out everything i've learned about procedural generation 21:07 hmmmm that approach to having two distinct biomes at different heights that blend into each other sounds logically appealing but might be too overcomplicated 21:07 hmmmm but how else are you gonna get snow caps on mountains 21:08 hmmmm ultimately, biome noise should be 3d or else that'd get boring fast 21:08 Desour 3d biomes sounds more useful in underground 21:09 hmmmm because most air is unpopulated, sure 21:09 Desour (mountains in minetest are usually too small to have different climate or vegetation on the top) 21:10 hmmmm you can "optimize" noise for above-ground by only generating it on demand (when there is a non-air node that exists in said chunk) 21:10 hmmmm are chunks still 5x5x5 by default? 21:11 hmmmm well that depends on the mapgen and the specific mapgen parameters. you can't make assumptions about what kind of terrain you'll have for things independent of the mapgen itself 21:11 hmmmm biomes are supposed to technically be an attribute imbued on top of the map itself, like decorations and other misc. "objects" 21:12 hmmmm or at least that was the original concept. i haven't looked at the current code but you guys probably butchered it lol 21:13 hmmmm so i guess "mapgen" is a bit of a misnomer for what i was aiming for... more like "landgen", and then the "biomegen" and "decoration gen" and "dungeongen" come together to make said "mapgen" 21:20 Duvalon interesting... 21:22 Duvalon hmmmm: that's just it, I don't think there's vertical interpolation at all 21:23 hmmmm ugh i can't believe you're getting me to look at minetest code 21:24 Duvalon hmmmm: you don't actually have to :D 21:26 hmmmm ahh no it's not a parameter for a lerp you're right, it seems to be the width of the region where biome dithering begins 21:27 hmmmm same as with the x and z coords 21:28 hmmmm seems like nerzuhl was touching my biome code but paramat fixed it 21:28 Duvalon :-| 21:28 hmmmm does nerz still add memory safety bugs in his code? lol 21:28 Duvalon I wouldn't know... 21:39 hmmmm has anybody audited minetest code at all? 21:40 hmmmm even just the free coverity scan? 21:44 schwarzwald[m] hmmmm: Yes, we have that. 21:44 schwarzwald[m] You need access from the core devs in order to see the report, I believe. 21:44 hmmmm I am a core dev 21:44 schwarzwald[m] Then you can probably already see it? 21:44 hmmmm i haven't even looked, just chatting 21:45 hmmmm if i get too involved with mt again it's going to suck up all my spare time 21:45 schwarzwald[m] I remember you I think. You're that core dev who is very friendly and isn't very active anymore IIRC. 21:46 schwarzwald[m] I was trying to fix 2 bugs from the coverity report every day as a new habit, but I was only able to keep it up for a few days before I didn't have time and it was tiring. 21:46 hmmmm there was a time when i wasn't friendly at all lol 21:47 schwarzwald[m] Sorry, I should've said seems friendly. This is the internet after all. 21:47 hmmmm no my personality has changed for the better over time 21:48 schwarzwald[m] I see you also got wise enough not to suck up your spare time on Minetest, haha. 21:48 hmmmm yeah, my fear was that the coverity report would spot too many issues and it'd be a flood 21:48 hmmmm i feel like maybe new feature contributions should stop at some point and there should be focus on optimizing and fixing 21:48 hmmmm we sort of did this before the 0.5.0 release but seems like it's gone off the wall again 21:48 schwarzwald[m] It looked to me like a flood of minor details that nobody except someone who wanted to exploit them could exploit. 21:49 hmmmm yeah that would be my primary concern 21:49 hmmmm the last thing i'd want to see is people joining a friendly MT server for a friendly session of playing their video games and then they get malware 21:49 schwarzwald[m] Someday I want to sit down and try to dedicate myself more to learning how to seriously contribute to Minetest maintenance, but this is my first year of university and I probably won't even have time to make more CMake PRs until that is over... 21:50 hmmmm i spent most of my time in university working on MT, and then i got into the real world where i coded for a living and that made me burn out completely 21:50 hmmmm this is probably your only real chance tbh 21:51 schwarzwald[m] Well, that's a point... maybe my chance is over. I didn't even have time to write my Codingame bot this week. I can't imagine how a university student could have time for open source contribution lol. 21:51 hmmmm and it's a great community to learn how open source collaboration works without too great of a barrier to entry as with larger, mature projects 21:52 hmmmm because I never did any homework 21:52 schwarzwald[m] I want to succeed, gotta do my homework. xD 21:53 hmmmm but coding mt was more beneficial to my career than spending hours on math proofs that ended up being useless in the real world 21:53 hmmmm so just saying 21:53 schwarzwald[m] I always felt that there was a pretty big entry barrier to the project because of the very specific domain and not having anyone who would teach new people. 21:53 hmmmm yeah the teaching part is a bit rough. celeron and kahrl helped me a lot, and i helped paramat as well as a few others 21:54 hmmmm time is a very valuable resource 21:54 schwarzwald[m] It's hard to be more ovelwhelmed than when you're thrown from toy projects into something real and you suddenly realize you know nothing, but you have to figure it out for yourself haha. 21:54 hmmmm my advice? don't try to be a generalist 21:54 MTDiscord > it's going to suck up all my spare time relatable 21:54 hmmmm if you like graphics, spend all your time on the shaders and don't even bother trying to fix or review someone else's unrelated PR 21:55 hmmmm that way you can actually get "deep" enough to make real contributions without being completely overwhelmed 21:55 schwarzwald[m] See my problem is that I like fixing bugs. 21:55 hmmmm fix bugs only in a specific subsystem 21:55 hmmmm MT as a whole is way too overwhelming unless you know it well from working on it several years 21:56 hmmmm and MT is a "small" open source project, lol 21:56 schwarzwald[m] Hmm, that is an interesting point. 21:57 schwarzwald[m] Maybe I should try to capitalize on my work with Minetest's build system so far and not worry about not getting into source code. 21:57 hmmmm you're working on the build system??? 21:57 schwarzwald[m] I have a complete rewrite of the build script in progress. 21:57 hmmmm brave dude, i think only a couple others have dared to touch cmake 21:57 hmmmm it's the thing that i avoided at all costs unless it was completely necessary because it's such a deep rabbit hole 21:57 hmmmm you have my support for sure 21:58 schwarzwald[m] TBF I am scared of breaking some random thing on some 10 year old Windows system because there's a workaround in the source code that requires setting a build flag I don't know about. 21:59 Desour it would be great if minetest compiled faster 21:59 Desour it's such a pain 21:59 hmmmm i am happy that minetest compiles, period 21:59 schwarzwald[m] You're starting to sound like erlehmann, Desour. 21:59 hmmmm omg i remember erlehmann 21:59 Desour schwarzwald[m]: huh, in what way? 21:59 hmmmm and did vanessa quit? 22:00 schwarzwald[m] Not in tone, just in desire for a faster compilation. 22:00 Desour ah 22:00 schwarzwald[m] I kind of think that a faster compilation is unlikely from a realistic perspective, but I hoped that by revamping the build I would at least make it more maintainable. 22:01 schwarzwald[m] I have the client building on Linux, I believe, and I downloaded MSVC at uni for the main purpose of running my build on Windows to get that working next. 22:01 schwarzwald[m] If things go like usual, MacOSX won't get tested until Jordach sees something got merged and blasts my head off. 22:01 hmmmm it's easy to break compatibility for the more obscure platforms, i kept having to fix freebsd compilation every time i'd come back from a break and there were lots of commits added 22:02 schwarzwald[m] My OpenBSD laptop decided to quit, while I was trying to get it set up to test erlehmann's own build. 22:02 hmmmm :/ 22:03 schwarzwald[m] Someone told me that the important thing for working on the build is to have access to lots of different machines. 22:03 hmmmm at least there are people still trying to maintain the bsd build, at one point some tried dropping support 22:03 hmmmm yes that is true, one of the things that *I* was supposed to do but dropped the ball on was maintaining a server of VMs for each build target with jenkins-ci installed 22:04 hmmmm the mac OSX VM was the biggest pain in the ass 22:04 Desour schwarzwald[m]: can you enable precompiled headers in minetest? https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/command/target_precompile_headers.html 22:04 schwarzwald[m] Actually, I have Sunday afternoon to play around... maybe I'll try to compile Minetest on Windows for the first time. 22:05 schwarzwald[m] Desour, it's certainly possible. 22:07 schwarzwald[m] Do we have a recommended developer workflow for setting up a git repo on Windows for use with Visual Studio? 22:09 schwarzwald[m] I think I'll just install git from the official website and try to use that. 22:20 rubenwardy hmmmm: VanessaE retired from MT and handed all her mods and servers to other people 22:24 schwarzwald[m] I installed vcpkg in a subdirectory in my user. I'm guessing I already messed up. 22:24 schwarzwald[m] Since it clearly isn't on my PATH. 22:24 rubenwardy vcpkg shouldn't be in your path 22:24 schwarzwald[m] Ah, ok. 22:24 rubenwardy you tend to install it per project, I put it inside the project dir 22:25 rubenwardy I suppose you could share the vcpkg, I prefer not to to keep things separate 22:25 schwarzwald[m] I like to save space and bandwidth. 22:26 schwarzwald[m] It's only been a half hour, I haven't even configured the IrrlichtMt build, and I'm already feeling the pain of developing on Windows. 22:31 schwarzwald[m] > Wait until cmake have generated the cash file 22:31 schwarzwald[m] Typo in the README 22:31 schwarzwald[m] * > Wait until cmake have generated the cash file 22:31 schwarzwald[m] Typo in the README 22:31 schwarzwald[m] I would PR to fix this right now except I haven't even set up SSH keys let alone my GPG signing on Windows. 22:32 schwarzwald[m] > If there are any errors, solve them and hit Configure 22:32 schwarzwald[m] "solve them" 22:32 schwarzwald[m] Pro advice. 22:34 Desour that hint solves world hunger 22:59 * schwarzwald[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c83ad92074cda174d1d127e6d68c70226720a0fc 22:59 schwarzwald[m] I just did the `vcpkg.exe install ...` command, and it completed successfully and listed a bunch of targets it set up.