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04:05 |
Elon_Satoshi1 |
Does anybody remember that there used to be an old Minetest music mod that had Amethystium songs? |
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08:38 |
independent_ |
Is this unethical? https://i.imgur.com/p0F3j1m.png |
08:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> independent_: Yes, misspelling "imprisoned" as "emprisioned" is highly unethical. |
08:50 |
independent_ |
Haha, i'm sorry. English spelling sucks |
08:51 |
independent_ |
Renglish translation: Haha aīm sorry. Englisho Speling sucks |
08:52 |
independent_ |
(note the ai dipthong using a macron to link vowels) |
08:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> schpelink* |
09:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> are you playing in local world or is it an online server? |
09:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> MNH48: It's probably his local online server xD |
09:13 |
independent_ |
It's on my public server, hosted on the laptop downstairs in the living room |
09:13 |
independent_ |
Anyone can join, even those outside the network or country |
09:14 |
independent_ |
I think that it is unfair emprisionment of a train which cannot help it, but i still do it as it's funny to laugh at a poor train |
09:14 |
independent_ |
Because trains are inanimate obejcts and i must stop personifying them (I've expressed concerns over a train getting panicked as it gets lost) |
09:24 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> oh, ig it's the "56i-server" in the server list? |
09:25 |
independent_ |
Yes, and it's hosted on a residental internet connection |
09:25 |
independent_ |
I think that imprisioning that train is worse then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO6qIM2WO6k because in the video, the train did something wrong, but here, the train did nothing wrong |
09:25 |
independent_ |
Even worse, every hour a steam train goes past once... and then again in the other direction |
09:51 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> lol, it says server crashed when trying to join |
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10:03 |
independent_ |
Oh crap |
10:03 |
independent_ |
That's not normal |
10:04 |
independent_ |
Maybe my interlocking will dissapear again |
10:10 |
independent_ |
Ok, it's fine |
10:13 |
independent_ |
The server crashed under my fingers |
10:13 |
independent_ |
Thanks for telling me. |
10:18 |
independent_ |
rubenwardy, 4 more Forum Posts before you curse yourself with 6666 posts. Just a heads-up |
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10:30 |
independent_ |
Does having multiple servers all having names descended from the main server make the server more pominent on the server list? I'd like to imagine it does (i have 5-8 servers i think) |
10:31 |
ROllerozxa |
well I don't think it gives you any more server points but it probably will make someone who looks at the server list go "woah, that's a guy with a lot of minetests on his hands" |
10:33 |
independent_ |
What is the starting point of server age? What defines the start of a server? My server age on servers.minetest.net is less then a year, despite my server having celebrated its first birthday. |
10:33 |
independent_ |
ROllerozxa, And is that a good thing? |
10:33 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> actually maybe my 'player' is broken in your server and crashed it when I try to join ... lemme try with different username |
10:34 |
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10:35 |
independent_ |
No, don't think so |
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10:35 |
independent_ |
It might be a specific part of the map being boken |
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10:35 |
independent_ |
I've started minetest manually and am on the lookout for errors on the server |
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10:37 |
independent_ |
Ah, caught the error |
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10:38 |
independent_ |
https://pastebin.com/3mh8MzS4 |
10:38 |
independent_ |
Could be your username |
10:38 |
independent_ |
Actually, the error begins earlier: https://pastebin.com/VTjv5g4R |
10:39 |
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10:39 |
independent_ |
Let me try joining with a new account. It might be server cleaner acting up. |
10:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> seemed to be in but server didn't send any more data |
10:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/991291866576330772/unknown.png |
10:41 |
independent_ |
Ah yes |
10:41 |
independent_ |
My new account worked perfectly. Can you try a different username? |
10:43 |
independent_ |
For reference: https://i.imgur.com/Absu78f.png |
10:43 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> seem to work this time |
10:44 |
independent_ |
Good |
10:51 |
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11:08 |
sfan5 |
do lua metatables work recursively |
11:15 |
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11:15 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Remove an unused method and header includes a5f3859 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a5f385917d0db5097e3cd4a1c6de794bda20c01f (2022-06-28T10:21:12Z) |
11:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: Lua indexing a metatable won't consider the metatable of the metatable but Lua indexing a table specified using __index will consider the metatable of the metatable |
11:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> so yes, but with limitations |
11:24 |
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11:25 |
sfan5 |
the last one is what I meant |
11:25 |
sfan5 |
thanks |
11:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> e.g. setmetatable({}, setmetatable({}, {__index = {__index = {a = 1}}})).a will be nil |
11:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> np |
11:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> for the sake of completeness (as I've phrased this poorly), the 2nd example: setmetatable({}, {__index = setmetatable({}, {__index = {a = 1}})}).a will be 1 |
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12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> I just realized the engine that pulls the train in 56i server is irrlicht |
12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/991314957251657758/unknown.png |
12:12 |
independent56 |
Yes, it is branded as that |
12:12 |
independent56 |
I always thought it said "IRR-LIGHT" |
12:12 |
independent56 |
But it is actually called the "big industrial train engine" |
12:13 |
independent56 |
It's because the passenger cars do not locomotive, and need an external source of power. |
12:13 |
independent56 |
Because of this, the train is very slow to accelerate |
12:13 |
independent56 |
https://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:trains:basic_trains:advtrains_engine_industrial_big |
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17:33 |
sfan5 |
what is played when a footstep sound is defined as {name="", gain=0.5}? |
17:34 |
sfan5 |
none I guess |
17:34 |
sfan5 |
wonder why mtg has something similar then |
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17:39 |
Krock |
it's the sound of silence |
17:39 |
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17:40 |
hn_ |
oh. there was a song like that... |
17:40 |
hn_ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4 probably... |
17:41 |
Krock |
c'mon at least link to the original |
17:41 |
hn_ |
lool |
17:41 |
hn_ |
ut anyways first like from google i ot |
17:41 |
hn_ |
* got |
17:41 |
hn_ |
(duck autocorrect |
17:41 |
giov4[m] |
is it normal that when I attach a particle spawner to a player (an infinite one, precisely), if someone joins the server after creating it, they don't see it? |
17:41 |
Krock |
yes |
17:42 |
Krock |
that's also somewhere as a bug report |
17:46 |
giov4[m] |
oh found it. A usecase for infinite particle spawners may be to add a trail to player (e.g. a flames trail) as a decoration (like Minecraft servers) |
17:52 |
Krock |
giov4[m]: do you have a simple testing code by any chance? |
18:07 |
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18:26 |
muurkha |
luatic: sounds like a mildly annoying Lua defect; are there places where it's hard to work around? |
18:28 |
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18:36 |
sfan5 |
celeron55: where did the git repos for what used to be games/common games/build or games/survival around 0.4.6 go? |
18:36 |
sfan5 |
the contents are neither in the history of the engine or the MTG repo |
18:36 |
hn_ |
?! |
18:36 |
sfan5 |
nor* |
18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> muurkha: less of a defect, more of a limitation. |
18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Not sure when you'd want to do so, other than maybe implementing a weird "mts are oop" system (as opposed to using mts to implement oop). |
18:40 |
appguru |
hn_: What do you mean here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=411724&sid=a336695820447dabc2eac0acbbf0cde5#p411724 - could you be more specific about "leaves you with no weather at all"? Please report engine (or MTG?) regressions in the future. |
18:42 |
muurkha |
well, you could recurse without limit and fail with an error if an endless loop was encountered; there's no way to generate metatables on the fly during the process, so a simple tortoise-and-hare algorithm is sufficient to detect this |
18:45 |
muurkha |
or is there? |
18:45 |
muurkha |
hmm, I guess __index could be a function that returns an object with a fresh metatable actually, so an endless loop could go undetected |
18:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> muurkha: Metatable __index chains definitely aren't a "defect". |
18:48 |
muurkha |
no, I mean the fact that indexing a metatable won't consider the metatable of the metatable |
18:49 |
muurkha |
it's an inconsistency that makes reasoning about the behavior of Lua programs more difficult, isnt it? |
18:49 |
muurkha |
because a table behaves differently when used as a metatable than otherwise |
18:50 |
muurkha |
maybe I'm misunderstanding though |
18:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ah that, yes |
18:51 |
muurkha |
I mean it might be preferable to a bug in Lua code causing the Lua interpreter to overflow the C stack |
18:52 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: interesting question |
18:54 |
celeron55 |
apparently 0.4.6 is around 201 |
18:55 |
celeron55 |
2013* |
18:56 |
hn_ |
appguru: its a core bug? i thought its mod bug cause i can disable weather so i dont have clouds... o.O |
18:56 |
hn_ |
and this works. while weather doesnt |
18:57 |
hn_ |
i thought that this mod will add clouds by itself btw... |
18:58 |
muurkha |
I was amused to learn the other night that Infiniminer already had flowing lava, rectangular clouds, and TNT, which I guess were all copied by Minecraft |
18:59 |
muurkha |
(and thence Minetest) |
18:59 |
celeron55 |
well, MC had those before MT existed |
19:02 |
muurkha |
and infiniminer had them before MC existed |
19:06 |
celeron55 |
altough, in MC like half of things were broken in multiplayer |
19:06 |
celeron55 |
infiniminer obviously worked nicely |
19:06 |
celeron55 |
but it was a less ambitious project |
19:06 |
muurkha |
yeah, for sure |
19:07 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: i can't find those in any obvious way, any ideas? |
19:07 |
sfan5 |
hmm |
19:07 |
sfan5 |
bitbucket? |
19:07 |
muurkha |
all "mine" and no "craft" |
19:08 |
hn_ |
yeah... and here i more craft than mine :/ |
19:08 |
celeron55 |
bitbucket removed all mercurial repos a while ago |
19:08 |
celeron55 |
and i don't think i converted any of them to git |
19:08 |
celeron55 |
but i do have them locally |
19:08 |
muurkha |
living up to their name |
19:08 |
sfan5 |
other than that: if you're lucky you'll find a random home backup from 2013 and it'll have them |
19:08 |
celeron55 |
it's just that didn't MT convert to git much earlier than 0.4.6? |
19:08 |
sfan5 |
yeah I think it was git actually by that point |
19:09 |
muurkha |
I've been thinking it would be fun to hack together a sandbox based on the Comanche VoxelSpace algorithm, my old laptop is groaning under the load of large numbers of plants and getting 8 fps |
19:10 |
muurkha |
obviously a VoxelSpace-based game (or sandbox) would be very different from Minetest |
19:11 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: well i can find the "common" game |
19:12 |
sfan5 |
that's valuable |
19:12 |
celeron55 |
but i can't find "build" and "survival" |
19:12 |
sfan5 |
build and survival didn't have much in them |
19:12 |
celeron55 |
it's literally in my main minetest project directory, as games/unused/common |
19:13 |
sfan5 |
:D |
19:13 |
celeron55 |
and it's not a git repo |
19:13 |
celeron55 |
just a plain directory |
19:13 |
muurkha |
my girlfriend installed a bunch of mods on her server including plantlife_modpack, and I suspect that's why my old laptop is struggling |
19:13 |
celeron55 |
so where would you like me to put this |
19:13 |
celeron55 |
ot |
19:14 |
celeron55 |
*it's dated 2013-12-22 but i'm not sure if that's an actual creation date or some backup artifact |
19:14 |
muurkha |
I forget, does hg have an option to put an hg repo on a bare HTTP server like Git? |
19:14 |
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19:14 |
muurkha |
like you can git clone http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/.git even though it's just Apache running on the server |
19:15 |
muurkha |
just a pile of dumb blobs |
19:15 |
sfan5 |
celeron55: I guess http://packages.8dromeda.net/minetest/ is your place for old stuff |
19:15 |
muurkha |
darcs and tla have a similar feature but I forget if hg does |
19:15 |
sfan5 |
but if you find the git repo it'd be cool to have it as an archive on GH |
19:16 |
muurkha |
what's the best way to map hg branches to git branches? |
19:16 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: well i put it here so you can get it http://fpaste.dy.fi/c52/dl |
19:16 |
sfan5 |
ty |
19:17 |
celeron55 |
what are your plans with it? |
19:17 |
celeron55 |
it's basically a very old stripped down mtg |
19:17 |
celeron55 |
not sure what the usecase is |
19:18 |
sfan5 |
wanted to figure out which sounds old versions had only to notice that default_break_glass.ogg is nowhere to be found in git (but it is in release ZIPs) |
19:18 |
sfan5 |
as for the final usecase you'll find out soon |
19:18 |
hn_ |
someone here having acc on gpt-3? just askin |
19:28 |
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19:32 |
independent56 |
When is the funeral service for #minetest-hub ? |
19:33 |
independent56 |
You know, bury the channel graciously and say final prayers to the deceased channel |
19:33 |
hn_ |
idk but i want too. even site down :/ |
19:36 |
independent56 |
"Today we celebrate the life of #minetest-hub killed by how solitary they like to make themselves." |
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19:45 |
independent56 |
I know the exact wrong way of highlighting air blocks |
19:45 |
independent56 |
/highlight air:air |
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20:16 |
independent56 |
Whoa.... what caused this mass emmigration and immigration? |
20:16 |
sfan5 |
netsplit |
20:17 |
muurkha |
yeah, that's a netsplit. two of the servers in libera's DAG lost a connection |
20:17 |
sfan5 |
btw because English is a very consistency language, "emigration" is written with one m |
20:17 |
sfan5 |
consistent* |
20:18 |
muurkha |
consistent would be "inmigration" and "exmigration", but the assimilation of the final consonant was already present in Classical Latin |
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20:18 |
independent56 |
Ugh. THis is why i invented Renglish. |
20:19 |
independent56 |
Phonetic spelling: Emeīgraītun |
20:19 |
independent56 |
But it is slightly approximated to fit the building blocks which is the writing system |
20:20 |
muurkha |
for http://canonical.org/~kragen/alphanumerenglish I pressed Arabic digits into service |
20:21 |
muurkha |
so you get 1megr8cen and 3megr8cen |
20:21 |
muurkha |
unfortunately my dialect has the PIN-PEN merger so I pronounce them exactly the same |
20:25 |
definitelya |
??? |
20:26 |
muurkha |
what part don't you understand, definitelya? |
20:26 |
definitelya |
Just the numbers in there, but I saw it's from that link. |
20:27 |
muurkha |
"1t's almost ridebel w164ut sp3cel tr8ni6, despait qe n3ses3ri k2mpremaizez 1n qi esainment ev gr4fimz te fonimz." |
20:28 |
definitelya |
The language of the Gods. |
20:28 |
muurkha |
oh, I thought that was Lojban? |
20:28 |
definitelya |
Probably yeah ahah. |
20:28 |
definitelya |
Very peculiar |
20:28 |
Pexin |
lisp))))))))))) |
20:29 |
muurkha |
no love for Lua? |
20:30 |
independent56 |
Haha, Renglish better as it use macron for dipthong |
20:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> muurkha: This "bug" is necessary to accomplish decent perf I suppose |
20:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> The common case is that metamethods are absent, so you'll want to optimize for that |
20:31 |
muurkha |
luatic: that's true, but I doubt the performance difference is significant |
20:31 |
independent56 |
aī can reīd' ꙍis' |
20:31 |
independent56 |
That's the Renglish spelling of "I can read this" |
20:31 |
muurkha |
I suspect the real reason is robustness |
20:31 |
muurkha |
right, I understand |
20:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if metatables could themselves have metatables, each of those would trigger yet another metatable check & possible table indexing |
20:32 |
muurkha |
independent56: have you thought about grouping the letters into syllable blocks, hangeul-style? |
20:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> muurkha: a similar question recently posed on the Lua mailing list was why __eq doesn't allow e.g. comparing tables against numbers and returning true |
20:32 |
independent56 |
Good idea, but i want Renglish to be compatible with Unicode |
20:32 |
independent56 |
I don't think unicode would be happy accomidating such a small dialect |
20:32 |
independent56 |
(Speakers: 1) |
20:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i.e. why it always did the type checks first (this is frustrating when implementing own number types and comparing against constants like 0 or 1) |
20:33 |
muurkha |
yeah, that's a real problem |
20:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> again, the reasons are probably perf & robustness |
20:33 |
muurkha |
you know what Python numpy does in the case of numpy.array([4, 3, 5, 1, 4]) == 4? |
20:34 |
muurkha |
you get array([ True, False, False, False, True], dtype=bool), which is astoundingly useful |
20:35 |
independent56 |
Wait a minute whilst i publish Renglish for the first time |
20:35 |
muurkha |
yay! |
20:38 |
definitelya |
independent56: Publish it here, too ahah. https://esolangs.org |
20:39 |
independent56 |
Hmm, good idea |
20:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> is it a proglang? |
20:39 |
independent56 |
Haha, spoken languages are not programming languages |
20:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> then no |
20:39 |
muurkha |
I'm not sure an esoteric orthography for English qualifies as an esoteric language or a conlang, but it might be worth a try |
20:39 |
independent56 |
You can only write poor pseudocode with Renglish |
20:39 |
muurkha |
maybe you could write a compiler from Renglish to espeak phoneme input |
20:39 |
independent56 |
Really, Renglish is a conlang based off English but with some differences |
20:40 |
muurkha |
then you could claim it's a programming language with the same degree of justification as https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish |
20:41 |
independent56 |
I can speakev in Renglisho grammaro, but it soundsol differentol due to differentol grammaro. |
20:41 |
independent56 |
Notably, the inclusion of word-class affixes |
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20:43 |
muurkha |
luatic: this allows you to write things like numpy.where(a > b, c, d), which selects items from c corresponding to indices where 'a > b' is true and items from d otherwise |
20:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> mhm |
20:44 |
giov4[m] |
<Krock> "giov4: do you have a simple..." <- not anymore sorry, but it's really easy: just add a particle spawner to a player and rejoin into the server |
20:44 |
independent56 |
http://56i.duckdns.org/blog/#Announcing%20Renglish |
20:44 |
independent56 |
Here is the page for Renglish |
20:45 |
independent56 |
I reccomend the Dictionary for the writing system, the main page for grammar |
20:45 |
muurkha |
yay new conlang |
20:45 |
independent56 |
It's nowhere near finished and piggybacks off English for features |
20:47 |
Krock |
giov4[m]: I had a look at the problem but it turns out the particle spawner stuff is really rudimentary and needs quite some more code to make this possible |
20:48 |
sfan5 |
it's both a missing feature and a bug |
20:49 |
independent56 |
There are actually three ways of writing consonants depending on access to typing resources |
20:51 |
independent56 |
First you would use extended cyrillic, then diacritics, and then double letters |
20:51 |
independent56 |
Some are inspired by English versions. |
20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: could modders work around this by storing these particle spawners and sending them to players on joinplayer? |
20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> or are there any glaring issues I'm missing? |
20:52 |
sfan5 |
modders cannot send particle spawners |
20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> add_particlespawner |
20:52 |
sfan5 |
that adds a new one |
20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> with the playername property sent |
20:52 |
sfan5 |
that still duplicates it |
20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yes, but you can calculate the amount & time left |
20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: but the player didn't get it, correct? |
20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> since he joined after it was added |
20:53 |
sfan5 |
let's cut this short: it's not impossible to work around but impractical |
20:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (and yes, this would duplicate it if this is fixed eventually, but currently it might work) |
20:53 |
Krock |
I came to the conclusion that it would be easiest to implement particle spawners as a new type of active object |
20:53 |
Krock |
since the code for showing them on the map is already there. still it's a bad idea due to u16 limitations |
20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sounds well, but (a) what about velartrill's PR? (2) please not all the ObjectRef overhead (props etc.) |
20:54 |
Krock |
I stopped there because reason (a) and there would be basically no overhead |
20:55 |
Krock |
at least CPU-wise. it would take more memory though |
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21:08 |
Pexin |
luatic: well I see someone is a fan of paul reiser |
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21:10 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> googles Paul Reiser |
21:11 |
Pexin |
can't find video clip, but a thing he always did in "mad about you" was list things as (a) and (2) |
21:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hehe oof |
21:15 |
muurkha |
ⓐ ... ② ... ⅲ ... Ⅳ ... 戊 ... |
21:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> normally I use numbers |
21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> this time my brain somehow decided to go with (a), I realized that and thought "hmm, gotta use (b) for (2)" then but it appears my subconscious hasn't listened |
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21:55 |
sfan5 |
!mod mobs_redo |
21:55 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo |
22:04 |
independent_ |
I remember when i used to think that digilines was a ripoff of mesecons |
22:04 |
independent_ |
lol |
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22:53 |
Noisytoot |
independent56: How do you create a phonetic spelling for English when dialects differ in how they pronounce things? |
22:54 |
independent56 |
My specific version of Renglish is toned to my pronunciation of words, and other people have differet spelling |
22:54 |
independent56 |
But the dictionary is the offical spelling for Renglish and is how things should be spelt in British Renglish |
22:57 |
Noisytoot |
Do you pronounce the "s" in "has" unvoiced? |
23:03 |
independent56 |
It's very soft, so i would spell it Has, but other dialectical dictionaries could spell it haz |
23:03 |
independent56 |
Whic now i think of it, explains the American meme "Haz x?" |
23:29 |
muurkha |
you could just pick a dialect |
23:30 |
muurkha |
Indian English is the national variety with the most speakers but it has a lot of internal variation |
23:31 |
muurkha |
for alphanumerenglish (2lfenum3ri6gl1c?) I just used my own speech, which is mostly GA. en_US has significant internal variation too, embracing AAVE, GA, and Southern English among others |
23:31 |
muurkha |
my girlfriend listens to these various en_US dialects and asks me how it's possible for me to understand what people are saying |
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