Time Nick Message 04:05 Elon_Satoshi1 Does anybody remember that there used to be an old Minetest music mod that had Amethystium songs? 08:38 independent_ Is this unethical? https://i.imgur.com/p0F3j1m.png 08:50 MTDiscord independent_: Yes, misspelling "imprisoned" as "emprisioned" is highly unethical. 08:50 independent_ Haha, i'm sorry. English spelling sucks 08:51 independent_ Renglish translation: Haha aīm sorry. Englisho Speling sucks 08:52 independent_ (note the ai dipthong using a macron to link vowels) 08:53 MTDiscord schpelink* 09:00 MTDiscord are you playing in local world or is it an online server? 09:01 MTDiscord MNH48: It's probably his local online server xD 09:13 independent_ It's on my public server, hosted on the laptop downstairs in the living room 09:13 independent_ Anyone can join, even those outside the network or country 09:14 independent_ I think that it is unfair emprisionment of a train which cannot help it, but i still do it as it's funny to laugh at a poor train 09:14 independent_ Because trains are inanimate obejcts and i must stop personifying them (I've expressed concerns over a train getting panicked as it gets lost) 09:24 MTDiscord oh, ig it's the "56i-server" in the server list? 09:25 independent_ Yes, and it's hosted on a residental internet connection 09:25 independent_ I think that imprisioning that train is worse then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO6qIM2WO6k because in the video, the train did something wrong, but here, the train did nothing wrong 09:25 independent_ Even worse, every hour a steam train goes past once... and then again in the other direction 09:51 MTDiscord lol, it says server crashed when trying to join 10:03 independent_ Oh crap 10:03 independent_ That's not normal 10:04 independent_ Maybe my interlocking will dissapear again 10:10 independent_ Ok, it's fine 10:13 independent_ The server crashed under my fingers 10:13 independent_ Thanks for telling me. 10:18 independent_ rubenwardy, 4 more Forum Posts before you curse yourself with 6666 posts. Just a heads-up 10:30 independent_ Does having multiple servers all having names descended from the main server make the server more pominent on the server list? I'd like to imagine it does (i have 5-8 servers i think) 10:31 ROllerozxa well I don't think it gives you any more server points but it probably will make someone who looks at the server list go "woah, that's a guy with a lot of minetests on his hands" 10:33 independent_ What is the starting point of server age? What defines the start of a server? My server age on servers.minetest.net is less then a year, despite my server having celebrated its first birthday. 10:33 independent_ ROllerozxa, And is that a good thing? 10:33 MTDiscord actually maybe my 'player' is broken in your server and crashed it when I try to join ... lemme try with different username 10:35 independent_ No, don't think so 10:35 independent_ It might be a specific part of the map being boken 10:35 independent_ I've started minetest manually and am on the lookout for errors on the server 10:37 independent_ Ah, caught the error 10:38 independent_ https://pastebin.com/3mh8MzS4 10:38 independent_ Could be your username 10:38 independent_ Actually, the error begins earlier: https://pastebin.com/VTjv5g4R 10:39 independent_ Let me try joining with a new account. It might be server cleaner acting up. 10:39 MTDiscord seemed to be in but server didn't send any more data 10:39 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/991291866576330772/unknown.png 10:41 independent_ Ah yes 10:41 independent_ My new account worked perfectly. Can you try a different username? 10:43 independent_ For reference: https://i.imgur.com/Absu78f.png 10:43 MTDiscord seem to work this time 10:44 independent_ Good 11:08 sfan5 do lua metatables work recursively 11:15 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove an unused method and header includes 13a5f3859 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a5f385917d0db5097e3cd4a1c6de794bda20c01f (152022-06-28T10:21:12Z) 11:23 MTDiscord sfan5: Lua indexing a metatable won't consider the metatable of the metatable but Lua indexing a table specified using __index will consider the metatable of the metatable 11:23 MTDiscord so yes, but with limitations 11:25 sfan5 the last one is what I meant 11:25 sfan5 thanks 11:25 MTDiscord e.g. setmetatable({}, setmetatable({}, {__index = {__index = {a = 1}}})).a will be nil 11:25 MTDiscord np 11:26 MTDiscord for the sake of completeness (as I've phrased this poorly), the 2nd example: setmetatable({}, {__index = setmetatable({}, {__index = {a = 1}})}).a will be 1 12:11 MTDiscord I just realized the engine that pulls the train in 56i server is irrlicht 12:11 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/991314957251657758/unknown.png 12:12 independent56 Yes, it is branded as that 12:12 independent56 I always thought it said "IRR-LIGHT" 12:12 independent56 But it is actually called the "big industrial train engine" 12:13 independent56 It's because the passenger cars do not locomotive, and need an external source of power. 12:13 independent56 Because of this, the train is very slow to accelerate 12:13 independent56 https://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:trains:basic_trains:advtrains_engine_industrial_big 17:33 sfan5 what is played when a footstep sound is defined as {name="", gain=0.5}? 17:34 sfan5 none I guess 17:34 sfan5 wonder why mtg has something similar then 17:39 Krock it's the sound of silence 17:40 hn_ oh. there was a song like that... 17:40 hn_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4 probably... 17:41 Krock c'mon at least link to the original 17:41 hn_ lool 17:41 hn_ ut anyways first like from google i ot 17:41 hn_ * got 17:41 hn_ (duck autocorrect 17:41 giov4[m] is it normal that when I attach a particle spawner to a player (an infinite one, precisely), if someone joins the server after creating it, they don't see it? 17:41 Krock yes 17:42 Krock that's also somewhere as a bug report 17:46 giov4[m] oh found it. A usecase for infinite particle spawners may be to add a trail to player (e.g. a flames trail) as a decoration (like Minecraft servers) 17:52 Krock giov4[m]: do you have a simple testing code by any chance? 18:26 muurkha luatic: sounds like a mildly annoying Lua defect; are there places where it's hard to work around? 18:36 sfan5 celeron55: where did the git repos for what used to be games/common games/build or games/survival around 0.4.6 go? 18:36 sfan5 the contents are neither in the history of the engine or the MTG repo 18:36 hn_ ?! 18:36 sfan5 nor* 18:39 MTDiscord muurkha: less of a defect, more of a limitation. 18:39 MTDiscord Not sure when you'd want to do so, other than maybe implementing a weird "mts are oop" system (as opposed to using mts to implement oop). 18:40 appguru hn_: What do you mean here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=411724&sid=a336695820447dabc2eac0acbbf0cde5#p411724 - could you be more specific about "leaves you with no weather at all"? Please report engine (or MTG?) regressions in the future. 18:42 muurkha well, you could recurse without limit and fail with an error if an endless loop was encountered; there's no way to generate metatables on the fly during the process, so a simple tortoise-and-hare algorithm is sufficient to detect this 18:45 muurkha or is there? 18:45 muurkha hmm, I guess __index could be a function that returns an object with a fresh metatable actually, so an endless loop could go undetected 18:47 MTDiscord muurkha: Metatable __index chains definitely aren't a "defect". 18:48 muurkha no, I mean the fact that indexing a metatable won't consider the metatable of the metatable 18:49 muurkha it's an inconsistency that makes reasoning about the behavior of Lua programs more difficult, isnt it? 18:49 muurkha because a table behaves differently when used as a metatable than otherwise 18:50 muurkha maybe I'm misunderstanding though 18:50 MTDiscord ah that, yes 18:51 muurkha I mean it might be preferable to a bug in Lua code causing the Lua interpreter to overflow the C stack 18:52 celeron55 sfan5: interesting question 18:54 celeron55 apparently 0.4.6 is around 201 18:55 celeron55 2013* 18:56 hn_ appguru: its a core bug? i thought its mod bug cause i can disable weather so i dont have clouds... o.O 18:56 hn_ and this works. while weather doesnt 18:57 hn_ i thought that this mod will add clouds by itself btw... 18:58 muurkha I was amused to learn the other night that Infiniminer already had flowing lava, rectangular clouds, and TNT, which I guess were all copied by Minecraft 18:59 muurkha (and thence Minetest) 18:59 celeron55 well, MC had those before MT existed 19:02 muurkha and infiniminer had them before MC existed 19:06 celeron55 altough, in MC like half of things were broken in multiplayer 19:06 celeron55 infiniminer obviously worked nicely 19:06 celeron55 but it was a less ambitious project 19:06 muurkha yeah, for sure 19:07 celeron55 sfan5: i can't find those in any obvious way, any ideas? 19:07 sfan5 hmm 19:07 sfan5 bitbucket? 19:07 muurkha all "mine" and no "craft" 19:08 hn_ yeah... and here i more craft than mine :/ 19:08 celeron55 bitbucket removed all mercurial repos a while ago 19:08 celeron55 and i don't think i converted any of them to git 19:08 celeron55 but i do have them locally 19:08 muurkha living up to their name 19:08 sfan5 other than that: if you're lucky you'll find a random home backup from 2013 and it'll have them 19:08 celeron55 it's just that didn't MT convert to git much earlier than 0.4.6? 19:08 sfan5 yeah I think it was git actually by that point 19:09 muurkha I've been thinking it would be fun to hack together a sandbox based on the Comanche VoxelSpace algorithm, my old laptop is groaning under the load of large numbers of plants and getting 8 fps 19:10 muurkha obviously a VoxelSpace-based game (or sandbox) would be very different from Minetest 19:11 celeron55 sfan5: well i can find the "common" game 19:12 sfan5 that's valuable 19:12 celeron55 but i can't find "build" and "survival" 19:12 sfan5 build and survival didn't have much in them 19:12 celeron55 it's literally in my main minetest project directory, as games/unused/common 19:13 sfan5 :D 19:13 celeron55 and it's not a git repo 19:13 celeron55 just a plain directory 19:13 muurkha my girlfriend installed a bunch of mods on her server including plantlife_modpack, and I suspect that's why my old laptop is struggling 19:13 celeron55 so where would you like me to put this 19:13 celeron55 ot 19:14 celeron55 *it's dated 2013-12-22 but i'm not sure if that's an actual creation date or some backup artifact 19:14 muurkha I forget, does hg have an option to put an hg repo on a bare HTTP server like Git? 19:14 muurkha like you can git clone http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/.git even though it's just Apache running on the server 19:15 muurkha just a pile of dumb blobs 19:15 sfan5 celeron55: I guess http://packages.8dromeda.net/minetest/ is your place for old stuff 19:15 muurkha darcs and tla have a similar feature but I forget if hg does 19:15 sfan5 but if you find the git repo it'd be cool to have it as an archive on GH 19:16 muurkha what's the best way to map hg branches to git branches? 19:16 celeron55 sfan5: well i put it here so you can get it http://fpaste.dy.fi/c52/dl 19:16 sfan5 ty 19:17 celeron55 what are your plans with it? 19:17 celeron55 it's basically a very old stripped down mtg 19:17 celeron55 not sure what the usecase is 19:18 sfan5 wanted to figure out which sounds old versions had only to notice that default_break_glass.ogg is nowhere to be found in git (but it is in release ZIPs) 19:18 sfan5 as for the final usecase you'll find out soon 19:18 hn_ someone here having acc on gpt-3? just askin 19:32 independent56 When is the funeral service for #minetest-hub ? 19:33 independent56 You know, bury the channel graciously and say final prayers to the deceased channel 19:33 hn_ idk but i want too. even site down :/ 19:36 independent56 "Today we celebrate the life of #minetest-hub killed by how solitary they like to make themselves." 19:45 independent56 I know the exact wrong way of highlighting air blocks 19:45 independent56 /highlight air:air 20:16 independent56 Whoa.... what caused this mass emmigration and immigration? 20:16 sfan5 netsplit 20:17 muurkha yeah, that's a netsplit. two of the servers in libera's DAG lost a connection 20:17 sfan5 btw because English is a very consistency language, "emigration" is written with one m 20:17 sfan5 consistent* 20:18 muurkha consistent would be "inmigration" and "exmigration", but the assimilation of the final consonant was already present in Classical Latin 20:18 independent56 Ugh. THis is why i invented Renglish. 20:19 independent56 Phonetic spelling: Emeīgraītun 20:19 independent56 But it is slightly approximated to fit the building blocks which is the writing system 20:20 muurkha for http://canonical.org/~kragen/alphanumerenglish I pressed Arabic digits into service 20:21 muurkha so you get 1megr8cen and 3megr8cen 20:21 muurkha unfortunately my dialect has the PIN-PEN merger so I pronounce them exactly the same 20:25 definitelya ??? 20:26 muurkha what part don't you understand, definitelya? 20:26 definitelya Just the numbers in there, but I saw it's from that link. 20:27 muurkha "1t's almost ridebel w164ut sp3cel tr8ni6, despait qe n3ses3ri k2mpremaizez 1n qi esainment ev gr4fimz te fonimz." 20:28 definitelya The language of the Gods. 20:28 muurkha oh, I thought that was Lojban? 20:28 definitelya Probably yeah ahah. 20:28 definitelya Very peculiar 20:28 Pexin lisp))))))))))) 20:29 muurkha no love for Lua? 20:30 independent56 Haha, Renglish better as it use macron for dipthong 20:30 MTDiscord muurkha: This "bug" is necessary to accomplish decent perf I suppose 20:30 MTDiscord The common case is that metamethods are absent, so you'll want to optimize for that 20:31 muurkha luatic: that's true, but I doubt the performance difference is significant 20:31 independent56 aī can reīd' ꙍis' 20:31 independent56 That's the Renglish spelling of "I can read this" 20:31 muurkha I suspect the real reason is robustness 20:31 muurkha right, I understand 20:31 MTDiscord if metatables could themselves have metatables, each of those would trigger yet another metatable check & possible table indexing 20:32 muurkha independent56: have you thought about grouping the letters into syllable blocks, hangeul-style? 20:32 MTDiscord muurkha: a similar question recently posed on the Lua mailing list was why __eq doesn't allow e.g. comparing tables against numbers and returning true 20:32 independent56 Good idea, but i want Renglish to be compatible with Unicode 20:32 independent56 I don't think unicode would be happy accomidating such a small dialect 20:32 independent56 (Speakers: 1) 20:32 MTDiscord i.e. why it always did the type checks first (this is frustrating when implementing own number types and comparing against constants like 0 or 1) 20:33 muurkha yeah, that's a real problem 20:33 MTDiscord again, the reasons are probably perf & robustness 20:33 muurkha you know what Python numpy does in the case of numpy.array([4, 3, 5, 1, 4]) == 4? 20:34 muurkha you get array([ True, False, False, False, True], dtype=bool), which is astoundingly useful 20:35 independent56 Wait a minute whilst i publish Renglish for the first time 20:35 muurkha yay! 20:38 definitelya independent56: Publish it here, too ahah. https://esolangs.org 20:39 independent56 Hmm, good idea 20:39 MTDiscord is it a proglang? 20:39 independent56 Haha, spoken languages are not programming languages 20:39 MTDiscord then no 20:39 muurkha I'm not sure an esoteric orthography for English qualifies as an esoteric language or a conlang, but it might be worth a try 20:39 independent56 You can only write poor pseudocode with Renglish 20:39 muurkha maybe you could write a compiler from Renglish to espeak phoneme input 20:39 independent56 Really, Renglish is a conlang based off English but with some differences 20:40 muurkha then you could claim it's a programming language with the same degree of justification as https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish 20:41 independent56 I can speakev in Renglisho grammaro, but it soundsol differentol due to differentol grammaro. 20:41 independent56 Notably, the inclusion of word-class affixes 20:43 muurkha luatic: this allows you to write things like numpy.where(a > b, c, d), which selects items from c corresponding to indices where 'a > b' is true and items from d otherwise 20:44 MTDiscord mhm 20:44 giov4[m] "giov4: do you have a simple..." <- not anymore sorry, but it's really easy: just add a particle spawner to a player and rejoin into the server 20:44 independent56 http://56i.duckdns.org/blog/#Announcing%20Renglish 20:44 independent56 Here is the page for Renglish 20:45 independent56 I reccomend the Dictionary for the writing system, the main page for grammar 20:45 muurkha yay new conlang 20:45 independent56 It's nowhere near finished and piggybacks off English for features 20:47 Krock giov4[m]: I had a look at the problem but it turns out the particle spawner stuff is really rudimentary and needs quite some more code to make this possible 20:48 sfan5 it's both a missing feature and a bug 20:49 independent56 There are actually three ways of writing consonants depending on access to typing resources 20:51 independent56 First you would use extended cyrillic, then diacritics, and then double letters 20:51 independent56 Some are inspired by English versions. 20:51 MTDiscord sfan5: could modders work around this by storing these particle spawners and sending them to players on joinplayer? 20:51 MTDiscord or are there any glaring issues I'm missing? 20:52 sfan5 modders cannot send particle spawners 20:52 MTDiscord add_particlespawner 20:52 sfan5 that adds a new one 20:52 MTDiscord with the playername property sent 20:52 sfan5 that still duplicates it 20:52 MTDiscord yes, but you can calculate the amount & time left 20:52 MTDiscord sfan5: but the player didn't get it, correct? 20:52 MTDiscord since he joined after it was added 20:53 sfan5 let's cut this short: it's not impossible to work around but impractical 20:53 MTDiscord (and yes, this would duplicate it if this is fixed eventually, but currently it might work) 20:53 Krock I came to the conclusion that it would be easiest to implement particle spawners as a new type of active object 20:53 Krock since the code for showing them on the map is already there. still it's a bad idea due to u16 limitations 20:54 MTDiscord sounds well, but (a) what about velartrill's PR? (2) please not all the ObjectRef overhead (props etc.) 20:54 Krock I stopped there because reason (a) and there would be basically no overhead 20:55 Krock at least CPU-wise. it would take more memory though 21:08 Pexin luatic: well I see someone is a fan of paul reiser 21:10 MTDiscord googles Paul Reiser 21:11 Pexin can't find video clip, but a thing he always did in "mad about you" was list things as (a) and (2) 21:15 MTDiscord hehe oof 21:15 muurkha ⓐ ... ② ... ⅲ ... Ⅳ ... 戊 ... 21:15 MTDiscord normally I use numbers 21:16 MTDiscord this time my brain somehow decided to go with (a), I realized that and thought "hmm, gotta use (b) for (2)" then but it appears my subconscious hasn't listened 21:55 sfan5 !mod mobs_redo 21:55 MinetestBot sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo 22:04 independent_ I remember when i used to think that digilines was a ripoff of mesecons 22:04 independent_ lol 22:53 Noisytoot independent56: How do you create a phonetic spelling for English when dialects differ in how they pronounce things? 22:54 independent56 My specific version of Renglish is toned to my pronunciation of words, and other people have differet spelling 22:54 independent56 But the dictionary is the offical spelling for Renglish and is how things should be spelt in British Renglish 22:57 Noisytoot Do you pronounce the "s" in "has" unvoiced? 23:03 independent56 It's very soft, so i would spell it Has, but other dialectical dictionaries could spell it haz 23:03 independent56 Whic now i think of it, explains the American meme "Haz x?" 23:29 muurkha you could just pick a dialect 23:30 muurkha Indian English is the national variety with the most speakers but it has a lot of internal variation 23:31 muurkha for alphanumerenglish (2lfenum3ri6gl1c?) I just used my own speech, which is mostly GA. en_US has significant internal variation too, embracing AAVE, GA, and Southern English among others 23:31 muurkha my girlfriend listens to these various en_US dialects and asks me how it's possible for me to understand what people are saying