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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-06-29

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Time Nick Message
01:18 Parnikkapore_m independent56: If you're still here, prior work on trying to get some sort of consistency across English dialects: https://www.shavian.info/spelling/
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08:29 hn_ quick question - someone know how to get map name while in-game? not game name. world name...
08:29 hn_ was trying to make some config using /set but i dont see changing world.mt ... and thought i mess up with other map ;p
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09:12 hn_ died chat ?
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12:07 hn_ died chat
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12:13 ROllerozxa sleepy chat
12:13 hn_ ye...
12:14 independent56 When's the funeral?
12:15 independent56 On the topic of sleepy: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Gtb4NtYxCl65RpBkWb2M3W5c0fRGApkAPaEu8UtzjAzzQtMKNuWpDmYQvGEvbIC9AiJKlnm1VRh5uqOV88MFeZc-6XLJ_ohYpjVwnKNpvFwbRxlwSRqBW4CuH5VRumoCql0r5HtzLsh71pW8798g30VzIGOMRndJ6l1URaUOgSVbjueUrOq7esCiHIpTxHfPXAcCAFaoLDTsrCnMU13ZD9GE5d8sXFvSrzZUroZhWmMHQuCgv63F2KGLeKm7LzuEGdeU-rAIJnGx7WPvc35BGqR1k7ECm44LebHU1C1dSViHoJEmWVE1l5QWtbwfzqYejJGQ8Kauz1VKNthZ6OjyP2K-LWyPE2GUO7ZFmRrp3OcaOb7ml8oV6386DUNeMpnh1cTcYI
12:15 independent56 i9k10Gbno2HNjMmTd8HUdSw0S2AWXPbwfUVETmhUqxv0tvGvpfclWtDV7shuoX2r5vRzkAuBKcTjf3dv2PG3WdcbXaw3NKkKzlGBM9isgc-6v2RGA0rNnq1GO-UYzX97hGtNFNWwBxcebhGGI-h5bPLPT_VDZHFcFFd2bEMM0xCvH4UShppqGP3S-fppr0_pOI4zMCid606uzq0OBe85VJzaVlX9zG7uZTkCTcH0z-2IStci0w2gjdjq2y0SuNzeKWZs9f7OIFWmLE2FC6y4HahzFk1Hlg4zyXVsTldI2u0zPjjSpqzxaNARITKhZxi-dw7LiLeTaZTTfl2l6BkqAOg4eaULatv6bQ29Ygua2WsknqkwPkdoe7Dudzhdlt9vgSP8P-8aAHn8FNR6OF0Ly4Lqtrkjk=w692-h919-no?authuser=0
12:15 hn_ SPAAAAM
12:16 independent56 https://bit.ly/3HZAdCC
12:16 independent56 Sorry
12:17 independent56 Never knew photos.google.com wa that bad
12:17 hn_ ;-;
12:17 hn_ always was... google...
12:17 independent56 I didn't mean to :-/
12:17 ROllerozxa aww :3
12:17 hn_ next time imgur pls ;-;
12:17 independent56 Oh yeah sorry, i forgot it existed for a minue
12:17 hn_ lol
12:18 independent56 Let's wake up the chat. FINAL MINETEST IS BEST MINETEST
12:18 definitelya Y u keep saying "cat" in French?
12:18 hn_ +1
12:19 rubenwardy J'adore les chats
12:19 rubenwardy J'aime les chats
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12:19 definitelya :D moi aussi.
12:19 independent56 Yo amore gatas
12:19 definitelya Lol
12:19 independent56 gatas es muy bonita
12:20 rubenwardy J'ai un pamplemousse
12:21 independent56 Thanks to Bitly's tracking, I know 4 people here are from the US, 1 from Sweeden, and another from poland
12:21 rubenwardy IRC exposes ip address, you don't need snoopy links to get them
12:22 definitelya Shhh xD
12:22 rubenwardy well. My IRC user's IP address will be that of rubenwardy.com
12:22 rubenwardy because quassel-core
12:22 independent56 Hmm
12:23 independent56 Click on my IP address and there's my server
12:23 independent56 Am i using my server as a proxy or my router as a server hosting solution?
12:25 independent56 Looking at shodan, seems i need to run sudo apt upgrade.... 44 packages
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12:46 independent56 What does "Quebec, CA" Mean? Quebec in California or Canada?
12:46 independent56 Probably California is IRC is american and Americans love stealing place names
12:47 ROllerozxa quebec is in canada
12:47 independent56 I know, but americans steal place names
12:47 independent56 Found it in california: https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=quebec%20california#map=19/33.57400/-117.73417
12:47 ROllerozxa huh, TIL
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14:43 independent56 Can a table be like a = {"a", "b", "c"} and act like a list?
14:43 independent56 For example, item 2 ("b") is a[2]. Could i call a.2 and get the same response?
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14:46 MTDiscord <luatic> a.2 would be a syntax error
14:47 MTDiscord <luatic> simple indexing only works with name, i.e. a.name
14:47 MTDiscord <luatic> {1, 2, 3} doesn't act like a list, it is a list
14:48 MTDiscord <luatic> those items are stored in the array- rather than the hash part of the table; you can traverse them in order using the indices 1 to 3 (#t)
14:50 independent56 Hmm
14:50 independent56 How do i iterate over them in a for loop?
14:53 calcul0n for index, value in ipairs(table) do...
14:53 calcul0n note it's ipairs, not pairs
14:53 independent56 Thanks
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14:55 independent56 I know i sound like a noob, but does index and value need to be replaced with other values like the table value? Do i need to interface with them?
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14:58 independent56 What do those words even mean in this context?
14:59 calcul0n index and value are just variable names here
15:00 calcul0n in {"a", "b", "c"} index will be 1, 2, 3 and associated value "a", "b", "c"
15:01 independent56 OH! Makes sense, thanks
15:10 MTDiscord <GoodClover> you can also for i=1,#table do and then index the table yourself table[i]
15:24 MTDiscord <luatic> note that the two methods don't do the same thing; I'd always recommend ipairs
15:27 MTDiscord <GoodClover> yeah, ipairs is guaranteed to stop at the first nil, #table isn't
15:36 independent56 I've been struggling Googling, so how do i turn a space-seperated string into a table, such as "O H S" being turned into "t = {"O", "H", "S"}
15:37 sfan5 in plain lua, string.gmatch
15:37 sfan5 Minetest has string.split refer to
15:37 sfan5 !api
15:37 MinetestBot Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
15:37 sfan5 for that
15:37 independent56 Thanks
15:38 independent56 ctrl+f  string.gmatch returned nothing
15:38 independent56 Oh wait,string.split is waht you meant
15:52 hn_ someone know why /set command cant set default permissions? i cant find modified entry neither in game.mt , minetest.conf neither other .txt files in world directory...
15:52 rubenwardy dedicated servers can't write to minetest.conf
15:52 hn_ (yes, i ask again)
15:53 hn_ rubenwardy: no its not dedicated. its private server
15:54 rubenwardy dedicated meaning minetest --server or minetestserver
15:54 hn_ from gui ran
15:55 MTDiscord <luatic> independenent56: do you actually need the table, or is looping over the parts enough?
15:55 MTDiscord <luatic> independent56*
15:56 MTDiscord <luatic> because if you want to iterate, gmatch is actually shorter than ipairs + MT's split
15:56 independent56 Oh hi, sorry.
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15:56 MTDiscord <luatic> for match in ("O H S"):gmatch"%s+" do print(match) end
15:57 hn_ 👻
15:57 independent56 I have a train with a routing codes in a space-seperated string such as "O S L", and i want to check against a table for any matches, such as S.stations.1.rc = {"O", "H"}
15:57 independent56 I need to see if i get a match or not
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16:01 independent56 This would return true, as "O" is present in both
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16:04 MTDiscord <luatic> then you should use the hash part of the table
16:04 independent_ Sorry, i've been away from programming so i don't know what you mean
16:05 MTDiscord <luatic> i.e. your table should be rc = {O = true, H = true}
16:05 MTDiscord <luatic> then you can check if rc[match] then ... end
16:06 independent_ hmm
16:06 MTDiscord <luatic> local any_match = false; for match in ("O H S"):gmatch"%s+" do if ({O = true, H = true})[match] then any_match = true break end end; print(any_match)
16:06 independent_ hmm
16:07 MTDiscord <luatic> %S*
16:07 MTDiscord <luatic> (non-space characters)
16:10 independent_ Thanks
16:10 independent_ %S* or %S+ just to be sure?
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16:25 calcul0n %S+ i think, * means any number, + means one or more
16:26 calcul0n (where any number can be zero)
16:27 independent56 hmm
16:29 MTDiscord <luatic> %S+
16:29 independent56 Where do i put the code that acts when it matches, and where if not?
16:29 MTDiscord <luatic> Explanation: One or more non-space characters, greedily
16:29 MTDiscord <luatic> inside the for?
16:29 independent56 Inside the big break line or the small if statment?
16:29 MTDiscord <luatic> what
16:30 MTDiscord <luatic> local any_match = false; for match in ("O H S"):gmatch"%S+" do if ({O = true, H = true})[match] then any_match = true break end end; print(any_match) will tell you whether any match exists, it's a boolean stored in any_match
16:30 independent56 https://pastebin.com/4rfAeYQQ
16:30 independent56 What line do i put the code which acts upon a match?
16:30 independent56 like the code which runs if the string and table match
16:30 MTDiscord <luatic> you don't need the if at the end
16:31 MTDiscord <luatic> you probably want some if any_match then ... end after the for loop?
16:31 independent56 Ah, so around line 7
16:31 independent56 And minus 13 an 14
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16:31 MTDiscord <luatic> (S.stations[index].rc)[match] - you don't need the parenthesis here
16:31 MTDiscord <luatic> (RC):gmatch"%S+" - same here
16:31 independent56 Thanks
16:31 MTDiscord <luatic> you just need them when you have table or string literals
16:31 independent56 Ok
16:32 independent56 It's just that i have experience with Python and SH
16:32 MTDiscord <luatic> it's a syntactical quirk which is required because Lua allows table & str calls
16:32 independent56 hmm
16:33 independent56 I'm just really tired because i had instant instead of moka pot coffee
16:33 independent56 Oh and also i slept at 00:30 and woke up at 07:15
16:35 independent56 Ok, so we have found a match with RC and the table. Where does Lua go to run code which happens when the match occurs?
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16:50 muurkha Monterrey usually, Aspen in ski season
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16:53 muurkha Monterrey usually, Aspen in ski season
17:07 Krock Monterrey usually, Aspen in ski season
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17:18 sfan5 quick quiz: what is wrong with this condition
17:18 sfan5 if variable_name or 0 < 0.5 then
17:18 hn_ INFINITE LOOP DETECTED !!!
17:19 muurkha heh
17:24 Krock sfan5: operator precedence
17:24 Krock would be stupid to have OR evaluated before other logical or arithmetic expressions
17:25 rubenwardy GPT-3 says  "The condition is always true."
17:25 rubenwardy "The condition will always be true because the value of 0 is always less than 0.5."
17:25 Krock GPT-3 is actually smart
17:25 hn_ i didnt said recursion sometimes ?
17:25 Krock does your 24 core beast calculate that?
17:26 Krock (or was it more cores?)
17:26 hn_ lmao wat ?
17:26 Krock question to rubenwardy
17:26 rubenwardy it's in the cloud
17:26 hn_ a. ok.
17:26 Krock what a convenient place
17:26 rubenwardy I was wondering if it could tell that () is missing
17:26 rubenwardy but it can't
17:26 Krock it can't know the developer's intentions
17:27 Krock like gcc always warns about a comparison of 0 < 0 in Minetest, even though it's a perfectly reasonable macro
17:27 Krock something about the serialization version that's zero
17:29 celeron55 well, you could ask GPT-3 to give an alternative explanation
17:29 celeron55 and it might come up with ()
17:29 Krock or   if true then
17:30 rubenwardy if variable_name or (0 < 0.5) then
17:30 rubenwardy err no
17:31 muurkha one possible way to solve problems like this in programming language design is to use a partial order on operator precedence rather than a total order up to equality classes
17:32 celeron55 that's a weird way to write that though, assuming 0 and 0.5 are actually literals and not a simplification
17:32 muurkha if "or" and "<" have precedence that is neither greater, less, or equal, you can arrange it so that attempting to parse that expression results in a parse error rather than an unintended parse
17:32 muurkha until you add parens
17:32 celeron55 of course it might be part of a set of similar statements where in other lines that format makes more sense
17:33 Krock muurkha: well... then you'll end up with LISP
17:33 muurkha Krock: no, you can eliminate *some* operator precedence relationships without eliminating *all* of them
17:33 celeron55 altough, well, i guess the point is to not repeat the variable name
17:34 muurkha `if (variable name or 0) < 0.5 then` is a reasonable way to avoid "attempt to compare nil with number" when 0 is a good default for variable_name
17:35 muurkha much as I am annoyed by Lua's inclination to produce erroneous results rather than errors (Python's "Errors should never pass silently.  In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.") it does not extend to treating nil as 0 in numeric contexts
17:37 muurkha in Wheat, an experimental language I worked on once, errors were values similar to nil or NaN, which would propagate through expressions in a contagious way until their spread was stoppe
17:38 muurkha d
17:38 muurkha if a method (Wheat was OO) executed an expression statement that evaluated to an error value, presumably for side effects, that error would become the return value of the method
17:39 muurkha the equivalent of `variable_name or 0` was `variable_name || 0`, which would evaluate to 0 iff variable_name was ???
17:40 muurkha but if you tried to access a nonexistent property, instead you would get an error value
17:40 muurkha there was an !! operator which would allow you to handle the error with a different value, so you could write `variable_name !! 0` for the analogous effect
17:54 rubenwardy !tell Wuzzy why is the origin deprecated? Seems useful https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/origin/
17:54 MinetestBot rubenwardy: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around
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18:15 ROllerozxa most likely considered deprecated in favour of https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/spawnbuilder/
18:17 rubenwardy ok, added link
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19:03 sfan5 good news, my game is almost ready for playtesting
19:03 sfan5 or rather it is complete
19:03 hn_ ok, good..
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20:09 sfan5 !server name:mystery
20:09 MinetestBot sfan5: Mystery Game Playtest | 68.183.77.9 | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.6.0-dev / ? | Ping: 16ms
20:09 sfan5 there we go
20:17 independent56 oooh
20:21 MinetestBot [git] rollerozxa -> minetest/minetest: Improve warnings when no games or only devtest is installed (#11955) 17709d7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/17709d7d0f8e394d2e22545e67cc39bca831c2e7 (2022-06-29T20:20:12Z)
20:21 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Lua API: Refer to the update_translations tool (#12419) de8ce9a https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/de8ce9a8ff999c7ab9562528a972d5426a9f7cec (2022-06-29T20:21:00Z)
21:02 sfan5 proof that ores work on my machine(tm) https://0x0.st/oSG1.png
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22:09 independent56 i wish
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22:13 Krock (and they didn't on the server)
22:28 independent56 That was fun
22:29 independent56 Now i want to go to my server and just walk around, enjoying each biome and texture and sound and feature
22:31 sfan5 you should
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22:32 independent56 One thing i will miss is the low memory usage
22:32 independent56 Makes me realise how bloated my server is
22:36 independent56 Oh and also TRAINS
22:37 independent56 Makes me appreciate the difference between 5.5-DEV and 0.3
22:38 sfan5 I mean it wouldn't be impossible to mod it...
22:39 sfan5 so you could have your trains, mesecons, technic, ...
22:39 sfan5 but at that point why not use MTG
22:49 independent56 wow, mapgen has went so far. I went down a path and saw huge cliffs and then oceans and small desert islands andallformsof variety
22:49 independent56 mapgen developers should give themselves a realclap on the back
22:52 sfan5 oh man this was a missed opportunity to profile the server during real world usage
22:54 independent56 Naw
22:55 sfan5 also could have enabled prometheus metrics
22:58 independent56 Are jungle biomes any bigger then regular biomes or is it an illusion?
23:01 MidasTouchHomeco I believe Minetest uses a Thermal map to do so.
23:01 MidasTouchHomeco So it would be random I think.
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23:10 independent56 Hmm
23:11 independent56 Maybe it's survivorship bias; i only remember what evidence proves my theory
23:14 independent56 Based on ContentDB reviews, we should discontinue Minetest Game
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23:20 MinetestBot lsab: Jun-08 09:32 UTC <BuckarooBanzai> if you only have a handful of passwords you could use `/setpassword <playername> <password>`
23:21 lsab hi. In my private server I can't to craft sandstone with sand, the recipe doesn't work after activate technic I guess
23:23 lsab someone knows how to fix?
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23:43 lsab I get to fix. I found this link https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/commit/69feeef0afc0d66dd8809481c434ba0afa33600e?diff=split
23:43 lsab but I change the line 24 to sand e it works

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