Time  Nick             Message
01:18 Parnikkapore_m   independent56: If you're still here, prior work on trying to get some sort of consistency across English dialects: https://www.shavian.info/spelling/
08:29 hn_              quick question - someone know how to get map name while in-game? not game name. world name...
08:29 hn_              was trying to make some config using /set but i dont see changing world.mt ... and thought i mess up with other map ;p
09:12 hn_              died chat ?
12:07 hn_              died chat
12:13 ROllerozxa       sleepy chat
12:13 hn_              ye...
12:14 independent56    When's the funeral?
12:15 independent56    On the topic of sleepy: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Gtb4NtYxCl65RpBkWb2M3W5c0fRGApkAPaEu8UtzjAzzQtMKNuWpDmYQvGEvbIC9AiJKlnm1VRh5uqOV88MFeZc-6XLJ_ohYpjVwnKNpvFwbRxlwSRqBW4CuH5VRumoCql0r5HtzLsh71pW8798g30VzIGOMRndJ6l1URaUOgSVbjueUrOq7esCiHIpTxHfPXAcCAFaoLDTsrCnMU13ZD9GE5d8sXFvSrzZUroZhWmMHQuCgv63F2KGLeKm7LzuEGdeU-rAIJnGx7WPvc35BGqR1k7ECm44LebHU1C1dSViHoJEmWVE1l5QWtbwfzqYejJGQ8Kauz1VKNthZ6OjyP2K-LWyPE2GUO7ZFmRrp3OcaOb7ml8oV6386DUNeMpnh1cTcYI
12:15 independent56    i9k10Gbno2HNjMmTd8HUdSw0S2AWXPbwfUVETmhUqxv0tvGvpfclWtDV7shuoX2r5vRzkAuBKcTjf3dv2PG3WdcbXaw3NKkKzlGBM9isgc-6v2RGA0rNnq1GO-UYzX97hGtNFNWwBxcebhGGI-h5bPLPT_VDZHFcFFd2bEMM0xCvH4UShppqGP3S-fppr0_pOI4zMCid606uzq0OBe85VJzaVlX9zG7uZTkCTcH0z-2IStci0w2gjdjq2y0SuNzeKWZs9f7OIFWmLE2FC6y4HahzFk1Hlg4zyXVsTldI2u0zPjjSpqzxaNARITKhZxi-dw7LiLeTaZTTfl2l6BkqAOg4eaULatv6bQ29Ygua2WsknqkwPkdoe7Dudzhdlt9vgSP8P-8aAHn8FNR6OF0Ly4Lqtrkjk=w692-h919-no?authuser=0
12:15 hn_              SPAAAAM
12:16 independent56    https://bit.ly/3HZAdCC
12:16 independent56    Sorry
12:17 independent56    Never knew photos.google.com wa that bad
12:17 hn_              ;-;
12:17 hn_              always was... google...
12:17 independent56    I didn't mean to :-/
12:17 ROllerozxa       aww :3
12:17 hn_              next time imgur pls ;-;
12:17 independent56    Oh yeah sorry, i forgot it existed for a minue
12:17 hn_              lol
12:18 independent56    Let's wake up the chat. FINAL MINETEST IS BEST MINETEST
12:18 definitelya      Y u keep saying "cat" in French?
12:18 hn_              +1
12:19 rubenwardy       J'adore les chats
12:19 rubenwardy       J'aime les chats
12:19 definitelya      :D moi aussi.
12:19 independent56    Yo amore gatas
12:19 definitelya      Lol
12:19 independent56    gatas es muy bonita
12:20 rubenwardy       J'ai un pamplemousse
12:21 independent56    Thanks to Bitly's tracking, I know 4 people here are from the US, 1 from Sweeden, and another from poland
12:21 rubenwardy       IRC exposes ip address, you don't need snoopy links to get them
12:22 definitelya      Shhh xD
12:22 rubenwardy       well. My IRC user's IP address will be that of rubenwardy.com
12:22 rubenwardy       because quassel-core
12:22 independent56    Hmm
12:23 independent56    Click on my IP address and there's my server
12:23 independent56    Am i using my server as a proxy or my router as a server hosting solution?
12:25 independent56    Looking at shodan, seems i need to run sudo apt upgrade.... 44 packages
12:46 independent56    What does "Quebec, CA" Mean? Quebec in California or Canada?
12:46 independent56    Probably California is IRC is american and Americans love stealing place names
12:47 ROllerozxa       quebec is in canada
12:47 independent56    I know, but americans steal place names
12:47 independent56    Found it in california: https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=quebec%20california#map=19/33.57400/-117.73417
12:47 ROllerozxa       huh, TIL
14:43 independent56    Can a table be like a = {"a", "b", "c"} and act like a list?
14:43 independent56    For example, item 2 ("b") is a[2]. Could i call a.2 and get the same response?
14:46 MTDiscord        <luatic> a.2 would be a syntax error
14:47 MTDiscord        <luatic> simple indexing only works with name, i.e. a.name
14:47 MTDiscord        <luatic> {1, 2, 3} doesn't act like a list, it is a list
14:48 MTDiscord        <luatic> those items are stored in the array- rather than the hash part of the table; you can traverse them in order using the indices 1 to 3 (#t)
14:50 independent56    Hmm
14:50 independent56    How do i iterate over them in a for loop?
14:53 calcul0n         for index, value in ipairs(table) do...
14:53 calcul0n         note it's ipairs, not pairs
14:53 independent56    Thanks
14:55 independent56    I know i sound like a noob, but does index and value need to be replaced with other values like the table value? Do i need to interface with them?
14:58 independent56    What do those words even mean in this context?
14:59 calcul0n         index and value are just variable names here
15:00 calcul0n         in {"a", "b", "c"} index will be 1, 2, 3 and associated value "a", "b", "c"
15:01 independent56    OH! Makes sense, thanks
15:10 MTDiscord        <GoodClover> you can also for i=1,#table do and then index the table yourself table[i]
15:24 MTDiscord        <luatic> note that the two methods don't do the same thing; I'd always recommend ipairs
15:27 MTDiscord        <GoodClover> yeah, ipairs is guaranteed to stop at the first nil, #table isn't
15:36 independent56    I've been struggling Googling, so how do i turn a space-seperated string into a table, such as "O H S" being turned into "t = {"O", "H", "S"}
15:37 sfan5            in plain lua, string.gmatch
15:37 sfan5            Minetest has string.split refer to
15:37 sfan5            !api
15:37 MinetestBot      Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
15:37 sfan5            for that
15:37 independent56    Thanks
15:38 independent56    ctrl+f  string.gmatch returned nothing
15:38 independent56    Oh wait,string.split is waht you meant
15:52 hn_              someone know why /set command cant set default permissions? i cant find modified entry neither in game.mt , minetest.conf neither other .txt files in world directory...
15:52 rubenwardy       dedicated servers can't write to minetest.conf
15:52 hn_              (yes, i ask again)
15:53 hn_              rubenwardy: no its not dedicated. its private server
15:54 rubenwardy       dedicated meaning minetest --server or minetestserver
15:54 hn_              from gui ran
15:55 MTDiscord        <luatic> independenent56: do you actually need the table, or is looping over the parts enough?
15:55 MTDiscord        <luatic> independent56*
15:56 MTDiscord        <luatic> because if you want to iterate, gmatch is actually shorter than ipairs + MT's split
15:56 independent56    Oh hi, sorry.
15:56 MTDiscord        <luatic> for match in ("O H S"):gmatch"%s+" do print(match) end
15:57 hn_              ?
15:57 independent56    I have a train with a routing codes in a space-seperated string such as "O S L", and i want to check against a table for any matches, such as S.stations.1.rc = {"O", "H"}
15:57 independent56    I need to see if i get a match or not
16:01 independent56    This would return true, as "O" is present in both
16:04 MTDiscord        <luatic> then you should use the hash part of the table
16:04 independent_     Sorry, i've been away from programming so i don't know what you mean
16:05 MTDiscord        <luatic> i.e. your table should be rc = {O = true, H = true}
16:05 MTDiscord        <luatic> then you can check if rc[match] then ... end
16:06 independent_     hmm
16:06 MTDiscord        <luatic> local any_match = false; for match in ("O H S"):gmatch"%s+" do if ({O = true, H = true})[match] then any_match = true break end end; print(any_match)
16:06 independent_     hmm
16:07 MTDiscord        <luatic> %S*
16:07 MTDiscord        <luatic> (non-space characters)
16:10 independent_     Thanks
16:10 independent_     %S* or %S+ just to be sure?
16:25 calcul0n         %S+ i think, * means any number, + means one or more
16:26 calcul0n         (where any number can be zero)
16:27 independent56    hmm
16:29 MTDiscord        <luatic> %S+
16:29 independent56    Where do i put the code that acts when it matches, and where if not?
16:29 MTDiscord        <luatic> Explanation: One or more non-space characters, greedily
16:29 MTDiscord        <luatic> inside the for?
16:29 independent56    Inside the big break line or the small if statment?
16:29 MTDiscord        <luatic> what
16:30 MTDiscord        <luatic> local any_match = false; for match in ("O H S"):gmatch"%S+" do if ({O = true, H = true})[match] then any_match = true break end end; print(any_match) will tell you whether any match exists, it's a boolean stored in any_match
16:30 independent56    https://pastebin.com/4rfAeYQQ
16:30 independent56    What line do i put the code which acts upon a match?
16:30 independent56    like the code which runs if the string and table match
16:30 MTDiscord        <luatic> you don't need the if at the end
16:31 MTDiscord        <luatic> you probably want some if any_match then ... end after the for loop?
16:31 independent56    Ah, so around line 7
16:31 independent56    And minus 13 an 14
16:31 MTDiscord        <luatic> (S.stations[index].rc)[match] - you don't need the parenthesis here
16:31 MTDiscord        <luatic> (RC):gmatch"%S+" - same here
16:31 independent56    Thanks
16:31 MTDiscord        <luatic> you just need them when you have table or string literals
16:31 independent56    Ok
16:32 independent56    It's just that i have experience with Python and SH
16:32 MTDiscord        <luatic> it's a syntactical quirk which is required because Lua allows table & str calls
16:32 independent56    hmm
16:33 independent56    I'm just really tired because i had instant instead of moka pot coffee
16:33 independent56    Oh and also i slept at 00:30 and woke up at 07:15
16:35 independent56    Ok, so we have found a match with RC and the table. Where does Lua go to run code which happens when the match occurs?
16:50 muurkha          Monterrey usually, Aspen in ski season
16:53 muurkha          Monterrey usually, Aspen in ski season
17:07 Krock            Monterrey usually, Aspen in ski season
17:18 sfan5            quick quiz: what is wrong with this condition
17:18 sfan5            if variable_name or 0 < 0.5 then
17:18 hn_              INFINITE LOOP DETECTED !!!
17:19 muurkha          heh
17:24 Krock            sfan5: operator precedence
17:24 Krock            would be stupid to have OR evaluated before other logical or arithmetic expressions
17:25 rubenwardy       GPT-3 says  "The condition is always true."
17:25 rubenwardy       "The condition will always be true because the value of 0 is always less than 0.5."
17:25 Krock            GPT-3 is actually smart
17:25 hn_              i didnt said recursion sometimes ?
17:25 Krock            does your 24 core beast calculate that?
17:26 Krock            (or was it more cores?)
17:26 hn_              lmao wat ?
17:26 Krock            question to rubenwardy
17:26 rubenwardy       it's in the cloud
17:26 hn_              a. ok.
17:26 Krock            what a convenient place
17:26 rubenwardy       I was wondering if it could tell that () is missing
17:26 rubenwardy       but it can't
17:26 Krock            it can't know the developer's intentions
17:27 Krock            like gcc always warns about a comparison of 0 < 0 in Minetest, even though it's a perfectly reasonable macro
17:27 Krock            something about the serialization version that's zero
17:29 celeron55        well, you could ask GPT-3 to give an alternative explanation
17:29 celeron55        and it might come up with ()
17:29 Krock            or   if true then
17:30 rubenwardy       if variable_name or (0 < 0.5) then
17:30 rubenwardy       err no
17:31 muurkha          one possible way to solve problems like this in programming language design is to use a partial order on operator precedence rather than a total order up to equality classes
17:32 celeron55        that's a weird way to write that though, assuming 0 and 0.5 are actually literals and not a simplification
17:32 muurkha          if "or" and "<" have precedence that is neither greater, less, or equal, you can arrange it so that attempting to parse that expression results in a parse error rather than an unintended parse
17:32 muurkha          until you add parens
17:32 celeron55        of course it might be part of a set of similar statements where in other lines that format makes more sense
17:33 Krock            muurkha: well... then you'll end up with LISP
17:33 muurkha          Krock: no, you can eliminate *some* operator precedence relationships without eliminating *all* of them
17:33 celeron55        altough, well, i guess the point is to not repeat the variable name
17:34 muurkha          `if (variable name or 0) < 0.5 then` is a reasonable way to avoid "attempt to compare nil with number" when 0 is a good default for variable_name
17:35 muurkha          much as I am annoyed by Lua's inclination to produce erroneous results rather than errors (Python's "Errors should never pass silently.  In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.") it does not extend to treating nil as 0 in numeric contexts
17:37 muurkha          in Wheat, an experimental language I worked on once, errors were values similar to nil or NaN, which would propagate through expressions in a contagious way until their spread was stoppe
17:38 muurkha          d
17:38 muurkha          if a method (Wheat was OO) executed an expression statement that evaluated to an error value, presumably for side effects, that error would become the return value of the method
17:39 muurkha          the equivalent of `variable_name or 0` was `variable_name || 0`, which would evaluate to 0 iff variable_name was ???
17:40 muurkha          but if you tried to access a nonexistent property, instead you would get an error value
17:40 muurkha          there was an !! operator which would allow you to handle the error with a different value, so you could write `variable_name !! 0` for the analogous effect
17:54 rubenwardy       !tell Wuzzy why is the origin deprecated? Seems useful https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/origin/
17:54 MinetestBot      rubenwardy: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around
18:15 ROllerozxa       most likely considered deprecated in favour of https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/spawnbuilder/
18:17 rubenwardy       ok, added link
19:03 sfan5            good news, my game is almost ready for playtesting
19:03 sfan5            or rather it is complete
19:03 hn_              ok, good..
20:09 sfan5            !server name:mystery
20:09 MinetestBot      sfan5: Mystery Game Playtest | 68.183.77.9 | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.6.0-dev / ? | Ping: 16ms
20:09 sfan5            there we go
20:17 independent56    oooh
20:21 MinetestBot      02[git] 04rollerozxa -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve warnings when no games or only devtest is installed (#11955) 1317709d7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/17709d7d0f8e394d2e22545e67cc39bca831c2e7 (152022-06-29T20:20:12Z)
20:21 MinetestBot      02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Lua API: Refer to the update_translations tool (#12419) 13de8ce9a https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/de8ce9a8ff999c7ab9562528a972d5426a9f7cec (152022-06-29T20:21:00Z)
21:02 sfan5            proof that ores work on my machine(tm) https://0x0.st/oSG1.png
22:09 independent56    i wish
22:13 Krock            (and they didn't on the server)
22:28 independent56    That was fun
22:29 independent56    Now i want to go to my server and just walk around, enjoying each biome and texture and sound and feature
22:31 sfan5            you should
22:32 independent56    One thing i will miss is the low memory usage
22:32 independent56    Makes me realise how bloated my server is
22:36 independent56    Oh and also TRAINS
22:37 independent56    Makes me appreciate the difference between 5.5-DEV and 0.3
22:38 sfan5            I mean it wouldn't be impossible to mod it...
22:39 sfan5            so you could have your trains, mesecons, technic, ...
22:39 sfan5            but at that point why not use MTG
22:49 independent56    wow, mapgen has went so far. I went down a path and saw huge cliffs and then oceans and small desert islands andallformsof variety
22:49 independent56    mapgen developers should give themselves a realclap on the back
22:52 sfan5            oh man this was a missed opportunity to profile the server during real world usage
22:54 independent56    Naw
22:55 sfan5            also could have enabled prometheus metrics
22:58 independent56    Are jungle biomes any bigger then regular biomes or is it an illusion?
23:01 MidasTouchHomeco I believe Minetest uses a Thermal map to do so.
23:01 MidasTouchHomeco So it would be random I think.
23:10 independent56    Hmm
23:11 independent56    Maybe it's survivorship bias; i only remember what evidence proves my theory
23:14 independent56    Based on ContentDB reviews, we should discontinue Minetest Game
23:20 MinetestBot      lsab: Jun-08 09:32 UTC <BuckarooBanzai> if you only have a handful of passwords you could use `/setpassword <playername> <password>`
23:21 lsab             hi. In my private server I can't to craft sandstone with sand, the recipe doesn't work after activate technic I guess
23:23 lsab             someone knows how to fix?
23:43 lsab             I get to fix. I found this link https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/commit/69feeef0afc0d66dd8809481c434ba0afa33600e?diff=split
23:43 lsab             but I change the line 24 to sand e it works