IRC log for #minetest, 2022-04-22

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15:53	hn_	ok
15:54	hn_	so noone knows how to install lua normally from flatpak ?
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15:59	MTDiscord	<ROllerozxa> wdym
16:00	hn_	just that there isnt lua in flatpak and i need to use real lua in my mt mod... (due to requires)
16:01	MTDiscord	<ROllerozxa> what's the lua flatpak minetest uses? fake counterfeit lua?
16:01	hn_	probly
16:03	ROllerozxa	jokes aside the lua flatpak minetest should be a fully featured version of luajit, idk what you mean about "real" lua
16:03	aoki	fake lua XD
16:04	hn_	fake lua = builtin in engine real = installed in system as language (aside python and node)
16:05	ROllerozxa	well of course, you can't use the system installed version of lua in a flatpak package
16:06	ROllerozxa	it's not in any way "fake", it's still just as feature complete
16:06	hn_	ye... so how can i use lua fs (lua addon) in minetest ?
16:06	ROllerozxa	get a system package of minetest that uses your system version of lua
16:07	hn_	version 4.4.1 ?
16:07	hn_	: \|
16:07	ROllerozxa	bruh what
16:07	hn_	yep
16:07	hn_	its my "sysytem" version
16:07	hn_	means - minetest version
16:08	ROllerozxa	oh I thought you were talking about lua
16:08	erle	what
16:08	hn_	oh, sorry, it was "0.4.17.1" (and some bugofxes probly)
16:09	ROllerozxa	if your system's repos are outdated then that's your problem, grab the buildscripts and package it yourself
16:09	erle	hn_ if you have anything older than 5.3, you have probably not updated stuff in a long time.
16:09	hn_	its updated
16:10	hn_	but my os tries to be overstable
16:10	erle	what system are you using?
16:10	hn_	solydx
16:10	ROllerozxa	ah the wonders of stability by obsolescence...
16:10	hn_	(crossmessaging on matrix)
16:10	erle	hn_ either get minetest 5.5 or 5.4.1 and build that. you might have too old cmake though lol
16:11	hn_	i have everything outdated. but works
16:11	hn_	lol
16:11	erle	but you are on the internet with it
16:11	erle	bold of you
16:11	hn_	yep
16:11	hn_	idk how it work but it wor
16:11	hn_	k
16:13	MTDiscord	<luatic> 0.4.17 is EOL, it's very unlikely that you'll get support for it here
16:13	hn_	yep
16:13	hn_	i know
16:13	hn_	so i use flatpak
16:13	hn_	to have automatic updates
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16:13	hn_	: \|
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16:59	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> We do provide support for 0.4, but it's pretty much exclusively the "shoulder to cry on" kind, not the "help solving your problems" kind.
17:00	hn_	lol
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21:12	settl3r[m]	Which mod/game-combination would you recommend for having a true ultra-hardcore experience?
21:12	settl3r[m]	(where food doesn't heal anymore, and which contains a dangerous wildlife)
21:13	settl3r[m]	ultra-hardcore: having no respawn ability and healing would only by possible with special items
21:14	settl3r[m]	s/by/be/
21:14	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Why would you make food not heal?
21:14	settl3r[m]	* ultra-hardcore: having no respawn ability and healing would only be possible with special items, such as potions etc.
21:14	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Whats its point then
21:14	settl3r[m]	to have ultra-hardcore mode
21:14	settl3r[m]	hardcore is too easy
21:15	MTDiscord	<MisterE> ... make your own hardcore pack, its easy enough
21:15	settl3r[m]	UHC would force one to play in a strategic way, making the game much more immersive and realistic, for me
21:15	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> The only ultra-hard mode I've seen is NodeCore Brutal Skyblock 😆
21:15	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> considering the mod name is literally nc_sky_ultra_hard
21:15	settl3r[m]	no, i mean in the default game-mode
21:16	settl3r[m]	(or in a MC-like gamemode)
21:16	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Settl3r, I don't see the point of having food if it doesn't heal. You might try removing all the food. You might also consider a hunger mod to provide a hunger bar you must keep full to heal
21:16	MTDiscord	<PrairieWind> I was under the imprsssion that minecraft hadecore allowed for regeneration by food.
21:16	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> you want the default game-mode with ultra-hard game-mode? Or you want ultra-hard game-mode with default game-mode? Or maybe just a hard-mode of ultra-default?
21:17	settl3r[m]	(uhc was my favourite mode to play minecraft, back then)
21:17	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Well you micht check out and then modify mesecraft
21:17	settl3r[m]	i want a mode, where you can starve if you dont eat, but where food doesnt heal you, if you are injured
21:17	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Oh yeah
21:17	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Check out mesecraft
21:18	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Also, install mobkit and zombiestrd
21:18	settl3r[m]	is MeseCraft a subgame or a mod-pack?
21:18	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Subgame
21:18	rubenwardy	<MisterE> Settl3r, I don't see the point of having food if it doesn't heal.
21:18	rubenwardy	Food doesn't heal IRL
21:18	MTDiscord	<PrairieWind> mod pack subgame
21:19	MTDiscord	<MisterE> I meant, food heals you slowly
21:19	rubenwardy	I suppose in such a game mode you'd still have hunger to damage you
21:19	MTDiscord	<MisterE> As in, you regen health slowly if you are not hungry
21:19	settl3r[m]	the point of having a hunger bar without food-healing is, to force a player to care about both: to not starve and to craft your healing items, if needed
21:19	settl3r[m]	..or search for that healing-items
21:20	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> Sounds kind of annoying, tbh. It sounds like just adding some busy work that the player has to do on the side, and the only reward is that you get to keep playing.
21:20	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Well mesecraft has regen if the hunger bar is full, but I think you will have to modify the game to get what you want anyhow I think
21:21	settl3r[m]	the hunger could be set to a slower rate, to make it more realistic
21:21	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> If you want a very specific experience then the need to modify is pretty much a foregone conclusion, yeah.
21:21	MTDiscord	<MisterE> It could
21:21	settl3r[m]	but hunger should be there, to keep the realism aspect
21:21	settl3r[m]	and healing with food is just too easy :/
21:21	settl3r[m]	it kills the immersion
21:21	MTDiscord	<MisterE> The amount of lua you need to learn to get this is minisule
21:22	MTDiscord	<MisterE> You should add a hunger mod, and then modify the code to change the rates
21:22	settl3r[m]	i want to play, not to program :(
21:22	MTDiscord	<PrairieWind> hmm pfft
21:22	MTDiscord	<MisterE> well, I have a mesecraft server up
21:22	MTDiscord	<MisterE> centeria Survival
21:22	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Feel free to drop by
21:23	MTDiscord	<MisterE> It has thirst too
21:23	settl3r[m]	for instance, in the game Don't Starve, you also have food which only fills hunger and other food which can restore health (but only few foods do that, iirc)
21:23	settl3r[m]	(and yet other types which restore sanity)
21:24	MTDiscord	<MisterE> But do you regenerate if you are not hungry?
21:24	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Regen health
21:24	settl3r[m]	in Dont Starve, health doesnt restore automatically
21:25	settl3r[m]	you have to eat special food to restore health, in DS(T)
21:25	MTDiscord	<MisterE> sounds super annoying
21:25	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> "I want to get exactly what I envision, but don't want to do any work for it" <-- I think you speak for everybody :-D
21:25	settl3r[m]	it is very challenging and fun to play
21:26	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Are you looking for a singleplayer or server experience?
21:26	settl3r[m]	sp
21:26	settl3r[m]	uhc is hard enough, it wouldnt need to have pvp added :/
21:27	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Would you appreciate it if I made this one change to mesecraft and uploaded it for you?
21:27	settl3r[m]	(on a server, normal hardcore would be sufficient)
21:27	settl3r[m]	* (on a server, "normal hardcore" would be sufficient)
21:27	settl3r[m]	oh that would be great :)
21:27	settl3r[m]	the uhc-change?
21:28	settl3r[m]	i would be eternally thankful.
21:29	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Mesecraft already has hunger, I would make the one change of hunger not regenerating with a full hungerbar
21:30	settl3r[m]	oh i could combine MeseCraft with Yolo-mod? that would activate the hardcore, then it would just need to be tweaked so that food-healing was impossible. but then one need to have at least 1 item in the game, with which you could heal.. either a mineable or a craftable (or both) item
21:30	MTDiscord	<MisterE> You could, likely
21:30	settl3r[m]	can you make golden apples as one of these healing items? that would make things like in minecraft
21:31	MTDiscord	<MisterE> you can already find those golden apples on mountians
21:31	settl3r[m]	(gold is extremely rare, but that would make for a very interesting challenge, if combined with all mb-mods)
21:31	MTDiscord	<MisterE> From etherial mod, included
21:31	settl3r[m]	s/mb/mob/
21:31	settl3r[m]	s/mb/mob/monster/
21:32	settl3r[m]	also, if thirst was a thing, it would add to the immersion
21:32	settl3r[m]	one would need to carry water-bottles with them, all time
21:32	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Well look, ill make the change, even include the yolo mod if I can find it easily, quickly test it. Any further modification is up to you. Yes, thirst is a thing
21:33	settl3r[m]	in Mesecraft? cool!
21:33	settl3r[m]	Thank you!
21:34	MTDiscord	<MisterE> I hope you hve at least 4 gb ram
21:34	settl3r[m]	This game could become the main immersive fun challenge for players which seek the ultimate challenge..
21:35	MTDiscord	<MisterE> ... hmm
21:35	settl3r[m]	s/which/who/
21:35	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Idk... we need varienty
21:35	settl3r[m]	i have 8GB builtin
21:35	MTDiscord	<MisterE> *variety
21:35	settl3r[m]	of these, mostly 6GB are free always
21:35	settl3r[m]	* these, mostly 5.5-6GB are
21:36	MTDiscord	<MisterE> Its nice to have a good mod soup game around, but original games are nicer
21:37	settl3r[m]	is there a way to disable the admin commands after starting a game?
21:37	settl3r[m]	(to make cheating (virtually) impossible)
21:37	MisterE[m]	... just don't give yourself the privs
21:37	MisterE[m]	No
21:37	aoki	play on server
21:37	MisterE[m]	You can always cheat on your own computer
21:37	MisterE[m]	Or that
21:38	aoki	can somewhat cheat on server too
21:38	aoki	like fly
21:38	aoki	noclip, nofall
21:38	settl3r[m]	ok, then i will write a textfile with my HomeRules (a "Code of Honour"), to hold myself back from any thought about cheating.
21:38	MisterE[m]	lol sure
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21:39	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> If you want to really hold yourself to a set of rules, livestream your play and have your audience hold you accountable.
21:39	settl3r[m]	one rule will be: only one save-backup is allowed, only right after the beginning of the game (to save the gameworld)
21:40	MisterE[m]	Livestream is a good idea
21:40	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> If you livestream your play, you can keep all the backups you want, because if you die on stream, or viewers notice a discontinuity, then it'll be clear you've lost anyway, and even if you get to keep the world as a trophy, it will still just be a memorial of your defeat.
21:40	settl3r[m]	sorry, i can't, because i have no camera for my PC
21:41	MisterE[m]	You can screenrecord
21:41	MisterE[m]	Without showing yourself
21:41	settl3r[m]	i dont have a mic either
21:41	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> you don't really need a camera or a mic. Having a mic and chatting with your audience is nice, but I've seen plenty of people get away without it.
21:41	MisterE[m]	you can use chat
21:42	settl3r[m]	also, my gameplay would be super-boring as i would play extremely careful and slowly
21:42	settl3r[m]	and i am a perfectionist also
21:42	settl3r[m]	* be super-boring (to watch) as i
21:42	MisterE[m]	Well, it was a suggestion not a command lol
21:43	settl3r[m]	:D thanks
21:43	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> super-boring is fine for a livestream
21:43	settl3r[m]	but.. i could upload a savegame, if i manage to build a base, hm..
21:43	MTDiscord	<Warr1024> there are plenty of channels on twitch that I would watch more as a "background" thing while I work rather than expecting to be edge of my seat all the tiem.
21:44	settl3r[m]	does meseCraft contain tough monsters?
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21:45	settl3r[m]	how can i find that modded MeseCraft?
21:45	Teckla	Does Minetest for iOS or iPadOS exist?
21:45	settl3r[m]	good question
21:45	MisterE[m]	settl3r[m]: It does
21:45	settl3r[m]	yay
21:46	MisterE[m]	settl3r[m]: I'm making it currently, ill upload it to git and provide a download link in about 1/2 hr
21:47	settl3r[m]	awesome, take all the time you need, you are the man 👌
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21:50	MisterE[m]	you can find the unmodded mesecraft here:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/a0c2c3bf18352c6ccb65a74c9a8d084ffc418404)
21:50	settl3r[m]	cool, thank you!
21:51	MisterE[m]	Heres the website btw: https://www.mesecraft.com/
21:51	settl3r[m]	wow.. even weather?
21:51	MisterE[m]	You do have minetest 5.5 ?
21:51	settl3r[m]	yes
21:52	settl3r[m]	* yes, 5.5.0 (64bit)
21:52	settl3r[m]	* yes, 5.5.0 (64bit, on windows)
21:52	settl3r[m]	* yes, 5.5.0 (64bit, on windows 7)
21:52	settl3r[m]	* yes, 5.5.0 (64bit, on windows 7 [i still get security-updates])
21:53	MisterE[m]	...tmi
21:53	settl3r[m]	thinks hard, what that cryptic token might mean..
21:54	MisterE[m]	too much info
21:54	erle	mesecraft is very cute
21:54	erle	i like these little clouds that come out of it's fires
21:54	erle	mesecraft moon skybox is also funny
21:54	erle	have they fixed the moon portal iron dupe?
21:54	MisterE[m]	I have, they havnt
21:55	erle	ah!
21:55	MisterE[m]	Afaik
21:55	erle	MisterE[m] is there also a mars portal bronze dupe? ;)
21:55	MisterE[m]	Yup...
21:55	erle	MisterE[m] did you remove ores from the moon or was that someone else btw?
21:55	erle	without ores a moonbase is kinda pointless
21:56	erle	with them, it's a challenging due to radioactivity and vacuum
21:56	settl3r[m]	wow.. planetary realms?
21:56	MisterE[m]	komodo did, I readded them, komodo may have too not sure
21:56	settl3r[m]	never played such a minetest game..
21:56	erle	settl3r[m] it's quite interesting
21:56	settl3r[m]	spoiler-alerts?
21:56	MisterE[m]	Um yeah
21:56	erle	settl3r[m] go looking for the book of portals
21:56	erle	in the game
22:00	MisterE[m]	settl3r: in mesecraft the 3d armor has healing armors. Remove or keep?
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22:02	settl3r[m]	does the healing wear it off?
22:02	settl3r[m]	if yes, then keep
22:03	settl3r[m]	(so a player would have to recraft it)
22:03	MisterE[m]	Not sure, and thats a bit too much to check
22:03	settl3r[m]	* to recraft or repair it)
22:03	settl3r[m]	if it's expensive in materials it might be ok for uhc
22:03	MisterE[m]	I do know taat when damaged the armor is damaged and oant be repaired
22:03	MisterE[m]	That*
22:03	MisterE[m]	Can't*
22:04	settl3r[m]	if in doubt, disable it, to keep the uhc spirit
22:04	settl3r[m]	uhc is supposed to give players the maximum challeneg possible
22:04	settl3r[m]	s/challeneg/challenge/
22:05	settl3r[m]	or disable the healing and keep the armor, would that work?
22:05	MisterE[m]	Yeah that works
22:05	settl3r[m]	* that work? (if that is to cumbersome, then disable it)
22:05	settl3r[m]	ok cool
22:05	settl3r[m]	so only golden apples would heal a player?
22:07	settl3r[m]	the question here is: should there be an absolute limit of healing items worldwide?
22:07	settl3r[m]	or should healing items be renewable?
22:07	MisterE[m]	They are renewable...
22:07	settl3r[m]	but hopefully tough to obtain
22:08	MisterE[m]	And at this point, you are welcome to make further modifications :)
22:08	settl3r[m]	so only 1 healing item exists?
22:09	MisterE[m]	There are others, most/ all hard to get
22:09	MisterE[m]	I think
22:09	MisterE[m]	Do you know of the yolo mod you want?
22:10	MisterE[m]	I could only find one that deletes the player, not the world
22:10	MisterE[m]	settl3r:
22:11	settl3r[m]	it would suffice if it disables the player a continuation
22:11	settl3r[m]	a restart with a new char, losing everything would still be within uhc (?)
22:11	MisterE[m]	... your house your rules
22:11	settl3r[m]	deleting the player is hardcore, i guess
22:12	settl3r[m]	so combined with no regeneration, it would be uhc
22:12	settl3r[m]	(i only know of 1 yolo mod)
22:13	settl3r[m]	thanks again for combining it with yolo-mod
22:14	settl3r[m]	Have you ever played hardcore yourself?
22:15	MisterE[m]	nope
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22:44	MisterE[m]	settl3r: https://gitlab.com/mistere123.coding/mesecraftUHC/-/archive/master/mesecraftUHC-master.zip
22:44	MisterE[m]	there you go
22:44	MisterE[m]	also, check out Exile
22:44	MisterE[m]	it is a great UHC game
22:44	settl3r[m]	wow that was quick, thank you very much :)
22:45	settl3r[m]	oh do i have to compile it before playing? :/
22:45	MisterE[m]	settl3r: I think modified UHC mesecraft is what you had in mind, but give Exile a shot too: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Mantar/exile/
22:45	MisterE[m]	It too is 1 life, and its very realistic
22:46	settl3r[m]	oh will try that out first, as i love wilderness survival
22:46	MisterE[m]	settl3r[m]: no. You download the game, extract it, remane the folder to mesecraft_UHC, and put it in the games folder
22:46	MisterE[m]	s/remane/rename/, s/mesecraft_UHC/mesecraft\_UHC/
22:47	settl3r[m]	ty
22:47	MisterE[m]	with exile, you have a "character"
22:47	MisterE[m]	who dies when you die. You become a new character
22:48	MisterE[m]	there is an exile server, "land of catastrophe" most of the players are very helpful
22:48	MisterE[m]	settl3r:
22:49	settl3r[m]	so Exile is like Mesecraft_UHC minus the advanced technic?
22:49	MisterE[m]	no
22:50	MisterE[m]	Exile is a completely different game
22:50	MisterE[m]	and also, Mesecraft doesnt have technic, just mesecons
22:50	settl3r[m]	ah, but Exile is uhc-mode, too?
22:50	settl3r[m]	which items heal in Exile?
22:51	MisterE[m]	Exile is all about managing temperature, health, food, seasons, etc. You have to learn to build a stove in-world. You have to learn to keep warm during winter of you will die
22:51	MisterE[m]	*or
22:51	MisterE[m]	you have to learn what is food, and what is poison
22:51	settl3r[m]	wow! that sounds even more interesting for me :)
22:51	MisterE[m]	you have to maintain your energy or you will become too weak to move
22:52	MisterE[m]	you have to find shelter from the seasons you you will get hypothermia
22:52	settl3r[m]	sounds like UnrealWorld (aka UrW)
22:52	MisterE[m]	its basically a death simulator until you figure it out
22:53	settl3r[m]	thank you for packaging Exile into the zip!
22:53	MisterE[m]	and then you can explore the lost city
22:53	MisterE[m]	I did not!
22:53	MisterE[m]	I did not package exile into the zip
22:53	MisterE[m]	i linked the content database page above, but you can install exile from the content tab
22:53	settl3r[m]	ok, but thanks for uploading it, together with your mese-uhc-fork
22:54	MisterE[m]	.... I uploaded mesecraftUHC. I linked exlie's content database page
22:54	settl3r[m]	oh.. then Exile has not uhc activated by default?
22:54	MisterE[m]	...
22:55	MisterE[m]	just install Exile from the main menu content installer in minetest and try it. Exile does not have a non-UHC mode
22:55	MisterE[m]	or just join the Exile server
22:55	MisterE[m]	Exile is one way to pronounce "UHC"
22:56	settl3r[m]	ok, sounds really challenging and immersive, like the stuff i love ^^
22:56	MisterE[m]	If I had remembered it, I would have pointed you to exile first instead of doing the mesecraft thing, but now you have both so :)
22:57	settl3r[m]	oh a last question: does Exile has (tough) mobs included by default?
22:57	MisterE[m]	... eh... not really
22:57	MisterE[m]	kinda
22:57	MisterE[m]	in the lost city there are <spoiler>
22:58	MisterE[m]	all the mobs do fight back iif attacked. Even the worms
22:58	settl3r[m]	ok, i will first play the Mesecraft-UHC, and try out Exile later.
22:58	MisterE[m]	well grubs
22:59	MisterE[m]	exile is very focused on surviving the environment. That is becuase it is developed by a few people, who dont have a lot of time. While mesecraft is a mod soup, its less focused on any particular thing, and is a collection of mods
23:01	MisterE[m]	mesecraft UHC is just mesecraft, with the modifications you requested. And Mesecraft is just default minetest game with a huge collection of mods, that are kinda fit together to provide a nice experience, with lots to explore and fight and do
23:01	MisterE[m]	well, Hope you find something you like!
23:05	settl3r[m]	you included yolo, right?
23:06	settl3r[m]	(ok will try it out now..)
23:08	MisterE[m]	settl3r[m]: yes
23:14	settl3r[m]	oh one last thing: do i have to select mods before starting?
23:15	settl3r[m]	so it is not your Celestia-fork?
23:15	settl3r[m]	s/Celestia/Centeria/
23:20	MisterE[m]	<settl3r[m]> "oh one last thing: do i have..." <- the zip I linked above: https://gitlab.com/mistere123.coding/mesecraftUHC/-/archive/master/mesecraftUHC-master.zip is my centeria fork, with the UHC modifications. No, you do not need to select mods. Make sure that "Enable Damage" checkbox is checked
23:29	MisterE[m]	settl3r: ^
23:46		harry-wood joined #minetest

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