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Swift110-mobile |
celeron55: true |
| 02:15 |
Swift110-mobile |
I only started using Debian last year and it's been something for sure. |
| 02:16 |
Swift110-mobile |
Glad I waited so long to start working with it |
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| 10:38 |
sami |
Hi |
| 10:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> hi |
| 10:39 |
Sompi |
Are the Minetest versions in Microsoft Store legit or scam? |
| 10:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> 100% scam, don't buy them or download them |
| 10:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> only download the windows version of minetest from https://www.minetest.net/ |
| 10:39 |
Sompi |
I noticed that there are numerous scam versions of almost every popular free and open source program |
| 10:39 |
Sompi |
That's why I came to ask |
| 10:40 |
Sompi |
Why they aren't reported to Microsoft= |
| 10:40 |
Sompi |
?? |
| 10:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> well it's a side effect of free software, they technically aren't violating the license |
| 10:40 |
Sompi |
With MIT or BSD license that's true |
| 10:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> for some open source projects they might be infringing on trademarks, but there is no legal entity behind minetest or a trademark on it that can be enforced |
| 10:40 |
Sompi |
But not with GPL licenses |
| 10:41 |
Sompi |
The Microsoft Store versions of every FLOSS program I found impose an additional restriction that they can only be installed to maximum of 10 devices |
| 10:42 |
Sompi |
Also most of them have their names slightly changed and no mention of the source code at all, or the original license |
| 10:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> if they're selling unmodified windows binaries then yes, they are completely in the right to do so unfortunately. if they have modified it in any way and not linked to the forked source code then it is a violation of the LGPL |
| 10:43 |
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| 10:43 |
Sompi |
The additional restriction itself is a serious GPL violation, and if they changed the program's name from the sources, they have to publish the changes also |
| 10:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> best thing would probably not be to try and take them down but for a coredev to themselves upload an officially recommended minetest app to the windows store because there seems to be some amount of demand for it anyways |
| 10:44 |
Sompi |
If they are selling something called "GIMP Pro" but the buyer gets the original vanilla GIMP binaries instead, then they are cheating the buyer. And there's that additional restriction of installs also anyway |
| 10:46 |
Sompi |
It's easy to find more license violations from Microsoft Store than it is to find them from The Pirate Bay |
| 10:47 |
Sompi |
I even found a free trial version of OBS Studio! |
| 10:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> the most depressing thing is if you have the cucked version of windows 10 that gets preinstalled on most cheaper computers the only way of installing programs is from the windows store. in that case "download it from the real developers' website" is the cost of a windows 10 home product key |
| 10:52 |
Sompi |
Actually the S version of Windows can be "upgraded" to a normal Home version for free, but it gives you scary warnings about viruses and loss of security if you do that |
| 10:52 |
Sompi |
And normies don't do that |
| 10:58 |
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| 11:03 |
Sompi |
But I don't know what happens if the computer is boot locked to that specific version of Windows. It may not be able to boot Windows 10 Home then |
| 12:40 |
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| 12:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Among the reasons FOSSers don't really want to bother taking down scams on the Windows app store is probably that Windows users already got scammed when they bought Windows anyway. In a way, scams are what app stores are for. |
| 13:06 |
MinetestBot |
[git] JosiahWI -> minetest/minetest: Restore GCC 5 compatibility (#11778) 7f6306c https://git.io/JygfF (2021-12-28T13:05:49Z) |
| 13:06 |
MinetestBot |
[git] neoh4x0r -> minetest/minetest: Automatically use SSE registers for FP operations on i386 (#11853) cc64a04 https://git.io/Jygfb (2021-12-28T13:06:24Z) |
| 13:09 |
MinetestBot |
[git] savilli -> minetest/minetest: Fix check that denies new clients from a singleplayer session 0fa5453 https://git.io/Jygke (2021-12-28T13:08:21Z) |
| 14:06 |
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| 14:25 |
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| 14:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: when you add mtl to irrlicht, shouldn't you be adding mtl to the media sending process as well? |
| 14:28 |
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| 14:49 |
sfan5 |
I'm adding mtl to Irrlicht? |
| 14:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: NVM, that's on the svn-trunk, not the master branch :P |
| 14:57 |
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| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
yes that's just a mirror |
| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
also this feature existed before and was never of any use inside MT |
| 15:09 |
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| 15:31 |
Sompi |
https://drewdevault.com/2021/12/28/Dont-use-Discord-for-FOSS.html |
| 15:31 |
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| 15:41 |
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| 15:45 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Yea, discord is so bad!!!!! |
| 15:51 |
Sompi |
The article has valid points |
| 15:53 |
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| 15:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> The article disclaimer 3 is extremely ironic |
| 15:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> The article literally is discord is bad xyz, use my stuff |
| 15:56 |
Sompi |
No, it isn't |
| 15:57 |
Sompi |
The writer does not have "my stuff" that could replace a messaging platform |
| 15:57 |
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| 15:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> They literally say sourcehut investing in irc and a link |
| 15:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Which under disclaimer three they own |
| 15:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> So they have a vested interest |
| 15:58 |
Sompi |
What? |
| 15:58 |
Sompi |
No-one can "own" IRC. IRC is a standardized protocol that anyone can implement |
| 15:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> > SourceHut has been investing in IRC by building more accessible services like chat.sr.ht. |
| 15:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> I never said they own irc |
| 16:00 |
Sompi |
And anyone can host their own IRC server, and there exists numerous programs for that already. The protocol is also simple enough that it is easy to write your own server, if you know some programming |
| 16:01 |
Sompi |
Yeah, as I said, everyone can implement IRC. They have made just another IRC client. Remember that using a third-party client is against Discord's TOS |
| 16:02 |
Sompi |
But for free messaging platforms (that are actually just standardized protocols) that is always possible |
| 16:04 |
Sompi |
I have written my own IRC server and three different IRC clients. :D |
| 16:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ...good for you? |
| 16:05 |
Sompi |
As I said, no big deal. It's easy to do if you know programming, and that's the power of free messaging platforms |
| 16:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> I will say irc>matrix |
| 16:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Matrix is a shit show |
| 16:06 |
Sompi |
Of course the article does miss the most important thing, that Discord is centralized and can ban anyone from the entire protocol any time |
| 16:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Just as libera can ban anyone from its network |
| 16:07 |
Sompi |
But it does mention that people from Iran cannot use Discord - it just forgets to say that it's because of that |
| 16:07 |
Sompi |
You know that it's not the same thing |
| 16:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Sure there are multiple networks but freenode then libera is the defacto standard |
| 16:08 |
Sompi |
And anyone can host their own server |
| 16:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Yeah, doesnt mean anyone will use it lol |
| 16:08 |
Sompi |
Why not? |
| 16:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Because people have to know it exists and find it? |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
Sompi |
If people know your channel, they surely also know what network it is in |
| 16:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> What I'd like to see is a modern, native IRC client that organizes and uses IRCisms rather than hiding them |
| 16:11 |
Pexin |
in my experience, channels, on any network, are found because a user was directed to it from a project/community's website. being libera/etc is irrelevant |
| 16:13 |
Pexin |
i was on a tabletop rpg channel on lets say an obscure network for years before i ever heard of freenode |
| 16:17 |
Pexin |
personally i completely mistrust any forced client tat exists as a browser based js app |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> That article is pretty much useless because it does not apply to us anyway. |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We never chose to put the MT community inside Discord, we simply chose not to exclude Discord from MT. |
| 16:51 |
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| 17:27 |
jonadab |
My main problem with Discord as a protocol is that there are no good clients for it. Which is a symptom, I think, of the fact that it's a proprietary protocol. Because it's certainly popular enough that good clients *would* support it, if the protocol were open. |
| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> I miss cordless |
| 17:28 |
jonadab |
Bitlbee used to support Discord, but then Discord changed something, and it stopped working. |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> cordless was this command-line third party discord client that was super lightweight and cool, but discord killed it because third party clients are bad |
| 17:29 |
jonadab |
But if the protocol were open, Bitlbee wouldn't even be needed, things like irssi and weechat could support it directly. |
| 17:30 |
jonadab |
And I have very little use for a protocol that can't be used with third-party clients, especially when the reference client is horifically bad like the Discord one. |
| 17:31 |
jonadab |
At some point the IRC-to-Discord bridge software will stop working as well. Inevitably. |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> considering how discord is trying to restrict what discord bots are trying to do now that's honestly pretty true |
| 17:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> I don't know if they've backpedalled on this but all public bots can only implement functionality by discord's own slash commands feature. no channel message reading, no independent message sends |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> IRC to Discord use standard webhook, which is also how many third party feeds send message into Discord, that part won't stop working |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> it's the other way around (Discord to IRC) that could stop working |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<MNH48> also the "no channel message reading" in discord is restriction on big public bots, you can selfhost bot and still do channel message reading just fine |
| 17:40 |
sfan5 |
>I won't blame this game's developer for the changes to bouncy blocks, where they used to be much more fun but were changed to limit the jump height somewhere in the Minetest 5.x series. |
| 17:40 |
sfan5 |
does anyone know what this is referring to |
| 17:41 |
sfan5 |
I read it in a review on CDB and as a coredev I have no idea which changes this is supposed to be |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ...link? |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
https://content.minetest.net/threads/1847/#reply-4552 |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> sorry, i dont know what there referring to, seems to work for me |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you could pm them on the forums or catch them on linuxforks |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:45 |
jonadab |
They may be referring to a specific mod's bouncy block feature. I know several mods provide them. Technic is one. |
| 18:45 |
jonadab |
Users don't always correctly distinguish between engine changes and mod changes. |
| 18:48 |
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| 19:23 |
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| 19:27 |
Pexin |
sfan5: I know what this refers to, re bouncy |
| 19:27 |
Pexin |
in about 5.3 or somewhere, collision was changed somehow which affected (probably among other things) bouncy |
| 19:28 |
Pexin |
the old behavior was, you can hold jump and you gain accel each time you collide (head or feet) with bouncy, you can thus accumulate velocity |
| 19:29 |
Pexin |
the new behavior pretty much ignores the jump button, and 100% bouncy just means you maintain the same velocity (though it is imperfect and erodes slowly, possibly floating point rounding? I don't know) |
| 19:29 |
Pexin |
I had a project that relied on the old behavior, which is impossible now |
| 19:30 |
sfan5 |
oh huh |
| 19:30 |
Pexin |
I'm 80% convinced it was a change to collision, and the old behavior was probably an unindended side-effect anyway |
| 19:31 |
Pexin |
but a fun one! |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:32 |
Pexin |
best solution I can think of, in addition to adjusting collision to properly detect jumping when hitting floor/ceiling at high velocity, is the split bouncy into ...2 things, dammit i forget details now |
| 19:32 |
Pexin |
something about rate of decay and %boost when jumping |
| 19:33 |
Pexin |
I imagine it would be a tricky adjustment though. I assume the engine isn't easily set up to do it. |
| 19:42 |
Krock |
the camera movement was changed, but not the jump itself |
| 19:42 |
Pexin |
wait that can't be right. boost when jumping should just be the normal jump height |
| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Couldn't you set the bounce amount to be more than 100% ? |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Or is it limited to 100% max? |
| 19:43 |
Pexin |
@Benrob0329: that just makes velocity increase with no control at all |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> True |
| 19:43 |
Pexin |
one of the trampoline mods allows it, and it causes big problem |
| 19:44 |
Pexin |
Krock: I really think it was an "unrelated" change to collision |
| 19:45 |
Krock |
would you please be so nice to bisect that? |
| 19:45 |
Pexin |
I tried to study the collision code but it was over my head ._. |
| 19:45 |
Pexin |
and I don't know how to bisect :( |
| 19:45 |
Pexin |
_pretty_ sure it was between 5.2 to 5.3 |
| 19:46 |
Krock |
git bisect stable-5.2.0 then follow the instructions |
| 19:47 |
Pexin |
will look into |
| 19:48 |
Krock |
pretty sure there's also guides online on how to bisect |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
it makes most sense if you could narrow this down. finding the responsible commit might be quite difficult otherwise, if there's no one else who notices it the way you ddi |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
s/ddi/did |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> are you talking about "new_move" option? |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> it sounds like that, that was changed in 5.3 |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
new_move is pretty much as old as 5.0.0 |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> nah smth definitely was changed in 5.3 |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
well we had the collision fixes |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
in 5.3 or so |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
it's possible that this was a side effect |
| 19:51 |
Krock |
i.e. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master/src/collision.cpp |
| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> AFAIK smth was changed in 5.3 and you can return the old behavior with "new_move = false" |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
still weird to see users going "the devs changed this, how sad" but the devs are like "we never did this wtf" |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
clearly a communication problem |
| 19:53 |
Pexin |
as I said, I strongly suspect the bouncy behavior was an incidental side effect that everyone just Ran With |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> i suggest to try "new_move = false" |
| 19:55 |
Pexin |
new_move isn't in minetest.conf.example |
| 19:56 |
Pexin |
and putting in in conf did nothing in 5.5.0dev |
| 19:56 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> it's per user |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/0c4929f0252811d9715b96379973929053d32ef0/doc/lua_api.txt#L6727 |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> or change the default here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/6910c8d920acedb3f1df1ac03a5cdf14f5fb6081/src/server/player_sao.h#L229 |
| 20:03 |
Pexin |
or src/client/localplayer.h |
| 20:05 |
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| 20:11 |
Pexin |
well neither did anything, which may just mean the old code was removed and those bools aren't used I dunno. I'll try bisect later tonight |
| 20:23 |
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| 21:27 |
Parker2 |
sup y |
| 21:27 |
Parker2 |
Is Fire still around? |
| 21:28 |
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| 22:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> "Just use the old buggy behavior" is a terrible solution tbh |
| 22:11 |
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| 23:33 |
celeron55 |
celeron55's new year's jam judging trainwreck livestream 2021-12-31 18:00 UTC |
| 23:33 |
celeron55 |
i just added this into my calendar, please don't tell anyone |
| 23:43 |
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