Time Nick Message 02:15 Swift110-mobile celeron55: true 02:15 Swift110-mobile I only started using Debian last year and it's been something for sure. 02:16 Swift110-mobile Glad I waited so long to start working with it 10:38 sami Hi 10:38 MTDiscord hi 10:39 Sompi Are the Minetest versions in Microsoft Store legit or scam? 10:39 MTDiscord 100% scam, don't buy them or download them 10:39 MTDiscord only download the windows version of minetest from https://www.minetest.net/ 10:39 Sompi I noticed that there are numerous scam versions of almost every popular free and open source program 10:39 Sompi That's why I came to ask 10:40 Sompi Why they aren't reported to Microsoft= 10:40 Sompi ?? 10:40 MTDiscord well it's a side effect of free software, they technically aren't violating the license 10:40 Sompi With MIT or BSD license that's true 10:40 MTDiscord for some open source projects they might be infringing on trademarks, but there is no legal entity behind minetest or a trademark on it that can be enforced 10:40 Sompi But not with GPL licenses 10:41 Sompi The Microsoft Store versions of every FLOSS program I found impose an additional restriction that they can only be installed to maximum of 10 devices 10:42 Sompi Also most of them have their names slightly changed and no mention of the source code at all, or the original license 10:42 MTDiscord if they're selling unmodified windows binaries then yes, they are completely in the right to do so unfortunately. if they have modified it in any way and not linked to the forked source code then it is a violation of the LGPL 10:43 Sompi The additional restriction itself is a serious GPL violation, and if they changed the program's name from the sources, they have to publish the changes also 10:43 MTDiscord best thing would probably not be to try and take them down but for a coredev to themselves upload an officially recommended minetest app to the windows store because there seems to be some amount of demand for it anyways 10:44 Sompi If they are selling something called "GIMP Pro" but the buyer gets the original vanilla GIMP binaries instead, then they are cheating the buyer. And there's that additional restriction of installs also anyway 10:46 Sompi It's easy to find more license violations from Microsoft Store than it is to find them from The Pirate Bay 10:47 Sompi I even found a free trial version of OBS Studio! 10:51 MTDiscord the most depressing thing is if you have the cucked version of windows 10 that gets preinstalled on most cheaper computers the only way of installing programs is from the windows store. in that case "download it from the real developers' website" is the cost of a windows 10 home product key 10:52 Sompi Actually the S version of Windows can be "upgraded" to a normal Home version for free, but it gives you scary warnings about viruses and loss of security if you do that 10:52 Sompi And normies don't do that 11:03 Sompi But I don't know what happens if the computer is boot locked to that specific version of Windows. It may not be able to boot Windows 10 Home then 12:43 MTDiscord Among the reasons FOSSers don't really want to bother taking down scams on the Windows app store is probably that Windows users already got scammed when they bought Windows anyway. In a way, scams are what app stores are for. 13:06 MinetestBot 02[git] 04JosiahWI -> 03minetest/minetest: Restore GCC 5 compatibility (#11778) 137f6306c https://git.io/JygfF (152021-12-28T13:05:49Z) 13:06 MinetestBot 02[git] 04neoh4x0r -> 03minetest/minetest: Automatically use SSE registers for FP operations on i386 (#11853) 13cc64a04 https://git.io/Jygfb (152021-12-28T13:06:24Z) 13:09 MinetestBot 02[git] 04savilli -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix check that denies new clients from a singleplayer session 130fa5453 https://git.io/Jygke (152021-12-28T13:08:21Z) 14:28 MTDiscord sfan5: when you add mtl to irrlicht, shouldn't you be adding mtl to the media sending process as well? 14:49 sfan5 I'm adding mtl to Irrlicht? 14:56 MTDiscord sfan5: NVM, that's on the svn-trunk, not the master branch :P 14:57 sfan5 oh 14:57 sfan5 yes that's just a mirror 14:57 sfan5 also this feature existed before and was never of any use inside MT 15:31 Sompi https://drewdevault.com/2021/12/28/Dont-use-Discord-for-FOSS.html 15:45 MTDiscord Yea, discord is so bad!!!!! 15:51 Sompi The article has valid points 15:55 MTDiscord The article disclaimer 3 is extremely ironic 15:56 MTDiscord The article literally is discord is bad xyz, use my stuff 15:56 Sompi No, it isn't 15:57 Sompi The writer does not have "my stuff" that could replace a messaging platform 15:57 MTDiscord They literally say sourcehut investing in irc and a link 15:58 MTDiscord Which under disclaimer three they own 15:58 MTDiscord So they have a vested interest 15:58 Sompi What? 15:58 Sompi No-one can "own" IRC. IRC is a standardized protocol that anyone can implement 15:59 MTDiscord > SourceHut has been investing in IRC by building more accessible services like chat.sr.ht. 15:59 MTDiscord I never said they own irc 16:00 Sompi And anyone can host their own IRC server, and there exists numerous programs for that already. The protocol is also simple enough that it is easy to write your own server, if you know some programming 16:01 Sompi Yeah, as I said, everyone can implement IRC. They have made just another IRC client. Remember that using a third-party client is against Discord's TOS 16:02 Sompi But for free messaging platforms (that are actually just standardized protocols) that is always possible 16:04 Sompi I have written my own IRC server and three different IRC clients. :D 16:04 MTDiscord ...good for you? 16:05 Sompi As I said, no big deal. It's easy to do if you know programming, and that's the power of free messaging platforms 16:06 MTDiscord I will say irc>matrix 16:06 MTDiscord Matrix is a shit show 16:06 Sompi Of course the article does miss the most important thing, that Discord is centralized and can ban anyone from the entire protocol any time 16:07 MTDiscord Just as libera can ban anyone from its network 16:07 Sompi But it does mention that people from Iran cannot use Discord - it just forgets to say that it's because of that 16:07 Sompi You know that it's not the same thing 16:07 MTDiscord Sure there are multiple networks but freenode then libera is the defacto standard 16:08 Sompi And anyone can host their own server 16:08 MTDiscord Yeah, doesnt mean anyone will use it lol 16:08 Sompi Why not? 16:09 MTDiscord Because people have to know it exists and find it? 16:09 Sompi If people know your channel, they surely also know what network it is in 16:09 MTDiscord What I'd like to see is a modern, native IRC client that organizes and uses IRCisms rather than hiding them 16:11 Pexin in my experience, channels, on any network, are found because a user was directed to it from a project/community's website. being libera/etc is irrelevant 16:13 Pexin i was on a tabletop rpg channel on lets say an obscure network for years before i ever heard of freenode 16:17 Pexin personally i completely mistrust any forced client tat exists as a browser based js app 16:47 MTDiscord That article is pretty much useless because it does not apply to us anyway. 16:47 MTDiscord We never chose to put the MT community inside Discord, we simply chose not to exclude Discord from MT. 17:27 jonadab My main problem with Discord as a protocol is that there are no good clients for it. Which is a symptom, I think, of the fact that it's a proprietary protocol. Because it's certainly popular enough that good clients *would* support it, if the protocol were open. 17:28 MTDiscord I miss cordless 17:28 jonadab Bitlbee used to support Discord, but then Discord changed something, and it stopped working. 17:29 MTDiscord cordless was this command-line third party discord client that was super lightweight and cool, but discord killed it because third party clients are bad 17:29 jonadab But if the protocol were open, Bitlbee wouldn't even be needed, things like irssi and weechat could support it directly. 17:30 jonadab And I have very little use for a protocol that can't be used with third-party clients, especially when the reference client is horifically bad like the Discord one. 17:31 jonadab At some point the IRC-to-Discord bridge software will stop working as well. Inevitably. 17:33 MTDiscord considering how discord is trying to restrict what discord bots are trying to do now that's honestly pretty true 17:34 MTDiscord I don't know if they've backpedalled on this but all public bots can only implement functionality by discord's own slash commands feature. no channel message reading, no independent message sends 17:38 MTDiscord IRC to Discord use standard webhook, which is also how many third party feeds send message into Discord, that part won't stop working 17:38 MTDiscord it's the other way around (Discord to IRC) that could stop working 17:40 MTDiscord also the "no channel message reading" in discord is restriction on big public bots, you can selfhost bot and still do channel message reading just fine 17:40 sfan5 >I won't blame this game's developer for the changes to bouncy blocks, where they used to be much more fun but were changed to limit the jump height somewhere in the Minetest 5.x series. 17:40 sfan5 does anyone know what this is referring to 17:41 sfan5 I read it in a review on CDB and as a coredev I have no idea which changes this is supposed to be 17:42 MTDiscord ...link? 17:43 sfan5 https://content.minetest.net/threads/1847/#reply-4552 17:50 MTDiscord sorry, i dont know what there referring to, seems to work for me 17:55 MTDiscord you could pm them on the forums or catch them on linuxforks 18:45 jonadab They may be referring to a specific mod's bouncy block feature. I know several mods provide them. Technic is one. 18:45 jonadab Users don't always correctly distinguish between engine changes and mod changes. 19:27 Pexin sfan5: I know what this refers to, re bouncy 19:27 Pexin in about 5.3 or somewhere, collision was changed somehow which affected (probably among other things) bouncy 19:28 Pexin the old behavior was, you can hold jump and you gain accel each time you collide (head or feet) with bouncy, you can thus accumulate velocity 19:29 Pexin the new behavior pretty much ignores the jump button, and 100% bouncy just means you maintain the same velocity (though it is imperfect and erodes slowly, possibly floating point rounding? I don't know) 19:29 Pexin I had a project that relied on the old behavior, which is impossible now 19:30 sfan5 oh huh 19:30 Pexin I'm 80% convinced it was a change to collision, and the old behavior was probably an unindended side-effect anyway 19:31 Pexin but a fun one! 19:32 Pexin best solution I can think of, in addition to adjusting collision to properly detect jumping when hitting floor/ceiling at high velocity, is the split bouncy into ...2 things, dammit i forget details now 19:32 Pexin something about rate of decay and %boost when jumping 19:33 Pexin I imagine it would be a tricky adjustment though. I assume the engine isn't easily set up to do it. 19:42 Krock the camera movement was changed, but not the jump itself 19:42 Pexin wait that can't be right. boost when jumping should just be the normal jump height 19:42 MTDiscord Couldn't you set the bounce amount to be more than 100% ? 19:43 MTDiscord Or is it limited to 100% max? 19:43 Pexin @Benrob0329: that just makes velocity increase with no control at all 19:43 MTDiscord True 19:43 Pexin one of the trampoline mods allows it, and it causes big problem 19:44 Pexin Krock: I really think it was an "unrelated" change to collision 19:45 Krock would you please be so nice to bisect that? 19:45 Pexin I tried to study the collision code but it was over my head ._. 19:45 Pexin and I don't know how to bisect :( 19:45 Pexin _pretty_ sure it was between 5.2 to 5.3 19:46 Krock git bisect stable-5.2.0 then follow the instructions 19:47 Pexin will look into 19:48 Krock pretty sure there's also guides online on how to bisect 19:49 Krock it makes most sense if you could narrow this down. finding the responsible commit might be quite difficult otherwise, if there's no one else who notices it the way you ddi 19:49 Krock s/ddi/did 19:49 MTDiscord are you talking about "new_move" option? 19:49 MTDiscord it sounds like that, that was changed in 5.3 19:49 Krock new_move is pretty much as old as 5.0.0 19:50 MTDiscord nah smth definitely was changed in 5.3 19:51 sfan5 well we had the collision fixes 19:51 sfan5 in 5.3 or so 19:51 sfan5 it's possible that this was a side effect 19:51 Krock i.e. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master/src/collision.cpp 19:52 MTDiscord AFAIK smth was changed in 5.3 and you can return the old behavior with "new_move = false" 19:52 sfan5 still weird to see users going "the devs changed this, how sad" but the devs are like "we never did this wtf" 19:52 sfan5 clearly a communication problem 19:53 Pexin as I said, I strongly suspect the bouncy behavior was an incidental side effect that everyone just Ran With 19:53 MTDiscord i suggest to try "new_move = false" 19:55 Pexin new_move isn't in minetest.conf.example 19:56 Pexin and putting in in conf did nothing in 5.5.0dev 19:56 MTDiscord it's per user 19:57 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/0c4929f0252811d9715b96379973929053d32ef0/doc/lua_api.txt#L6727 19:57 MTDiscord or change the default here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/6910c8d920acedb3f1df1ac03a5cdf14f5fb6081/src/server/player_sao.h#L229 20:03 Pexin or src/client/localplayer.h 20:11 Pexin well neither did anything, which may just mean the old code was removed and those bools aren't used I dunno. I'll try bisect later tonight 21:27 Parker2 sup y 21:27 Parker2 Is Fire still around? 22:01 MTDiscord "Just use the old buggy behavior" is a terrible solution tbh 23:33 celeron55 celeron55's new year's jam judging trainwreck livestream 2021-12-31 18:00 UTC 23:33 celeron55 i just added this into my calendar, please don't tell anyone