| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:09 |
|
Alias2 joined #minetest |
| 00:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erlehmann: as I explained elsewhere, LuaJIT allows [[ [[ ]] while PUC Lua does not. |
| 00:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> different parsers |
| 00:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the code was just outcommented in a dirty way, the equivalent to /* /* */, which would give you a syntax error in Java |
| 00:52 |
erlehmann |
luatic well that probably sucks for the ratings for that game |
| 00:59 |
|
riff-IRC joined #minetest |
| 01:06 |
|
Noisytoot joined #minetest |
| 01:15 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest |
| 01:28 |
|
erlehmann joined #minetest |
| 01:53 |
|
Jason232_ joined #minetest |
| 03:28 |
|
queria^clone joined #minetest |
| 03:29 |
|
Guest79 joined #minetest |
| 03:30 |
Guest79 |
hello |
| 03:34 |
|
queria^clone joined #minetest |
| 03:46 |
|
Mikhail_CN joined #minetest |
| 04:00 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 04:54 |
|
Jason232 joined #minetest |
| 05:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest |
| 05:25 |
|
Wikiwide joined #minetest |
| 05:57 |
|
kamdard joined #minetest |
| 06:01 |
|
riff-IRC joined #minetest |
| 06:01 |
|
specing_ joined #minetest |
| 06:18 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 07:08 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 07:09 |
|
olliy joined #minetest |
| 07:57 |
|
Jason232_ joined #minetest |
| 08:25 |
|
submariner joined #minetest |
| 08:25 |
|
CWz joined #minetest |
| 08:30 |
|
definitelya joined #minetest |
| 08:51 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest |
| 08:56 |
|
calcul0n joined #minetest |
| 09:06 |
|
Jason232 joined #minetest |
| 09:43 |
|
calcul0n_ joined #minetest |
| 09:49 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 09:49 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 11:53 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest |
| 11:59 |
|
powerjungle joined #minetest |
| 12:06 |
|
Jason232_ joined #minetest |
| 12:22 |
|
___nick___ joined #minetest |
| 12:23 |
|
___nick___ joined #minetest |
| 14:00 |
|
Extex joined #minetest |
| 15:03 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest |
| 15:08 |
|
Jason232 joined #minetest |
| 15:22 |
|
___nick___ joined #minetest |
| 15:23 |
|
___nick___ joined #minetest |
| 15:55 |
|
GNUHacker joined #minetest |
| 16:24 |
|
proller joined #minetest |
| 17:29 |
|
powerjungle joined #minetest |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> erlehmann, have you been having fun trying to find a bug in the networking of minetest? |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> I have a potential bug idea that himbeer said could potentially work |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> But i dont want to say it here ofc |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I bet that there are tons of bugs |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> I don't want to say anything else about it |
| 17:59 |
|
Jason232 joined #minetest |
| 18:01 |
|
specing_ joined #minetest |
| 18:02 |
|
troller joined #minetest |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Himbeer already found a bug similar to mine just over a year ago |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> I just checked in our DMs |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "I have a potential bug idea" sounds to me like "hey I thought of this really cool idea for a bug that I think you should consider adding." |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> An idea as in it hasnt been tested yet |
| 18:06 |
|
GNUHacker left #minetest |
| 18:07 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Just himbeer says it would work from a networking standpoint |
| 18:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'd say, I'd consider it, but mostly we remove bugs so it'd have to be a really cool one to get added. :-) |
| 18:07 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Lol |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> I mean ot isnt exactly difficult to find bugs in minetest |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> *it |
| 18:20 |
|
Jason232 joined #minetest |
| 18:22 |
|
troller joined #minetest |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean s/minetest/software/ but yeah. |
| 18:53 |
|
troller joined #minetest |
| 18:59 |
|
Noisytoot joined #minetest |
| 19:31 |
Sokomine |
besides: merry christmas to you all :-) |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
how can the screwdriver be so unintuitive? I don't get it how to use that thing |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
apparently 8 years into Minetest are not enough to grasp this |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
punch: rotate face. does not rotate the *pointed* face |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
place: no idea man it's random |
| 19:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> I just always hit it as random until it faced the right way |
| 19:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> A few hits in you can usually get a feel for which axis its rotating around, but no its not intuitive |
| 19:36 |
Krock |
except when you do something wrong and end up clicking 20 times |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> This is why rhotator exists |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Or however its spelled |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The screwdriver was designed to organize the 24 different rotations into 6 sets of 4 (or was that 4 sets of 6) so that in theory you could use fewer clicks to get to the desired state ... but the state transition graph for it is too complex to intuit so it just ends up being memorizing a pattern of 4 of this click then one of that, 4 of this one of that, etc. until you find your desired state sequentially. |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I struggled a bit with rotations in nodecore but ended up just (1) removing redundant rotations, and then (2) cycling through all of them on right-click, and users have generally reported that it's nicer than the screwdriver at least. |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
worst case is a 180° rotated face into the opposite direction. that's four clicks if done right |
| 19:50 |
Krock |
actually 6 clicks, if backwards operations are not possible |
| 19:50 |
Krock |
also a lack of "copy rotation" like the replace item from Sokomine |
| 19:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> y'all wouldn't happen to be talking lazarr wouldja? |
| 19:59 |
Krock |
perhaps |
| 19:59 |
Krock |
applies to MTG as well |
| 20:00 |
Krock |
btw. any idea on how I can finish the "Little Lady" level 2? I cannot fly up |
| 20:00 |
Krock |
ayy lmao. I need to reset to start, rather than go back to the inventory |
| 20:00 |
Krock |
s/inventory/starting screen/ |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> When I played the jam games I personally took a lot of care reading available instructions, starting from the CDB detail page, and including all the in-game stuff. Not everybody would in real gameplay, but I figured that we don't give the devs a ton of room for UX testing, so I'd give them any advantage I could. |
| 21:15 |
|
garywhite joined #minetest |
| 21:15 |
|
garywhite joined #minetest |
| 21:28 |
|
bgg joined #minetest |
| 21:28 |
|
bgg joined #minetest |
| 21:44 |
|
GreenXenith joined #minetest |
| 21:50 |
|
bgg joined #minetest |
| 21:50 |
|
bgg joined #minetest |
| 22:01 |
Sokomine |
there's a pattern behind the screwdriver..it's just not very comprehensible. in particular not with nodes that look the same with diffrent rotations (like the often used stairs) |
| 22:02 |
Sokomine |
i've thought about adding a screwdriver which might show all available rotations and offer them for clicking. might be doable for stairsplus nodes. might not be doable for abriatary meshes |
| 22:05 |
Sokomine |
or perhaps just show the 6 possible groundplates when right-clicking and a N S E W for rotation around axis... |
| 22:09 |
* Sokomine |
searches for a handy fake player for checking access with allow_metadata_inventory_* |
| 22:12 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest |
| 22:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> My take on it is that there's no way to do a rotation tool, give the tools that Minetest has, that will make everyone happy. |
| 22:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean I once watched a mechanic spend a couple minutes struggling to figure out which way to turn a bolt that was facing away from him and he had to reach around something to reach the bolt. Even IRL rotations can be hard for people to reason about. |
| 22:20 |
|
Hawk777 joined #minetest |
| 22:34 |
|
delta23 joined #minetest |
| 22:38 |
Sokomine |
probably true, yes |
| 22:38 |
Sokomine |
even worse that the screwdriver has wear |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, that's one of the reasons why in NodeCore I decided to make optic rotation free: you just right-click the thing and it changes direction. Spending a resource with non-trivial value like iron just to rotate things always irked me, and made the usability issues also become gameplay issues at the same time. |
| 22:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> At least that dreaded screwdriver in certain other games doesn't wear out :-) |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The drawback of spinning on right-click is if you forget to hold sneak, you have to do the whole "oh crap I just right-clicked, now I have to right-click a prism 11 times (or a lens 5 times) to get it back to where it should be" |
| 23:00 |
|
Sven_vB joined #minetest |
| 23:03 |
|
Jason232 joined #minetest |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> How about rotation of a fake model before placement... now how to control it... |
| 23:10 |
Sokomine |
oh, it's not the value of the materials for the screwdriver. on most servers it's not an issue. it's just annoying to be interrupted in the creative process by having to craft a tool that shouldn't break anew |
| 23:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'd be tempted to say "attach the player to the node and have them use lookdir to rotate the thing" but the problem with that is that you can't express a 3-axis rotation with a 2-axis pointer with gimbal lock :-D |
| 23:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> A flat cycle through all rotations is the sanest I know of so far, but making that tolerable also depends a lot on nodes being aware of their symmetries and notifying the rotation system of equivalent rotations so you can cull the loop to the minimum length possible. |
| 23:19 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 23:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I hate rotations |
| 23:22 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> How about a tool that when you rightclick it changes its rotation axis and shows a weildview indicator |
| 23:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> There's a couple conventions involved making 3D rotations quite hard to get right |
| 23:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> One idea I had was a simple tool that always rotated the face you pointed at clockwise and you just moved around it to change the axis, but you can't always see every face of the node you want to rotate and you can't always afford to dig everything around it. |
| 23:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Another one was click the face, then move your pointer in the direction you want to "drag" that face, and you can rotate on 2 axes that way ... but to do a "roll" you'd have to rotate on one axis, then on the second, then back on the first again like a rubix cube. |
| 23:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You could combine the 2 to get arbitrary rotations but having 2 rotation functions actually makes stuff harder to use, and also tends to require use of a special tool. |
| 23:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's all a mess no matter what you do :-) |
| 23:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> An indicator could almost work, but a big problem is that in multiplayer there's no way to show an entity to only one player, so all rotation states would have to be "public" |
| 23:35 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Would formspec + model view + buttons work here? |
| 23:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> seems highly over complicated |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> well, "preview + commit" sequence already suggests we are not on the path of simplicity... |
| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> fair point, but your taking rotating which supposably sucks and introducing something that sucks even more formsepcs |
| 23:40 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> @Warr1024 what about 3 rotation options in the tool: front face, top face, right face, using 'left', 'right' and 'e+right'? |
| 23:43 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> It might at least make the screwdriver more intuitive and efficient... |
| 23:54 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest |
