| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
yaman |
If that's the case, then using them as a way to count reviews will likely lead to inaccurate results, right? This is especially true when reviews are voted on inconsistently. Some games receive many review votes while others receive nearly none. At the very least, we can use the total review count. Those who believe that a review shouldn't be counted (by helpful/unhelpful rating) are free to leave a review of their own. |
| 00:07 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Tbh the voting rampages like Zughy's one is just ruining the whole thing |
| 00:08 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> It is getting to a point where community votes are kinda useless |
| 00:10 |
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| 00:11 |
yaman |
I appreciate the reviews from the community, as long as they are thoughtful. On the other hand, invalidating reviews because a few others disagree with no stated reasons is unhelpful. If others disagree, they should post their own review explaining their point of view, which would also be factored into the community score. |
| 00:24 |
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| 00:44 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> These are all valid points. Id say that they should factor heavily into how we do the next jam. This jam, I think we should not change the rules after the fact, but we should learn from the problems with this system and adjust it next time |
| 00:46 |
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| 00:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We wanted to give the community a voice but to some extent we can't make it use that voice responsibly. There may be some dishonest actors but we haven't seen a full-blown attack against CDB or anything, so it would be manageable if more honest people simply put in the effort to rate games and give feedback. |
| 00:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Trying to game CDB is really just mutually assured destruction anyway, and since the winner will be determined by their score relative to others, it may not make much of a difference in the rankings in the end. |
| 00:48 |
MisterE |
testing the irc client on minetest |
| 00:48 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> huh it displays my icon and posts as me. That is mildly concerning |
| 00:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yes, wrong |
| 00:49 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ... |
| 00:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it doesnt post as you |
| 00:49 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ok, but is shows my icon |
| 00:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The Discord webhook thing guesses your icon based on IRC name matching with Discord name. |
| 00:50 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> someone else could join as mistere on irc and seem to be me |
| 00:50 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> yeah only mildly concering ll |
| 00:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Well that's what kickname registrations are for ;-) |
| 00:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^ |
| 00:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> nickname registrations (but also kickname, if you set ENFORCE on) |
| 00:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If it really bugs you but you don't plan on using IRC much, you only really need to log in once a month or three to make sure your registration doesn't expire. |
| 00:51 |
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| 00:51 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> it doesnt bother me |
| 00:51 |
wsor |
test |
| 00:52 |
wsor |
figures nicks out |
| 00:52 |
wsor4035 |
probably not this |
| 00:52 |
MisterE |
ah yeah |
| 00:52 |
wsor4035 |
matrix sucks as usual |
| 00:54 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Is there any reason that we can't set up our own irc server, and then run the bot to connect every minetest discord channel to a mirrored irc channel, and do the same for element with its minetest space and rooms? Thus bringing the community closer together. I have a bit of experience running irc servers |
| 00:55 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> or do people on libera want to have minetest as just a few channels, next to a bunch of other channels that they frequesnt |
| 00:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> everyone lets relay discord to "better" places, but they dont want to relay there own spaces |
| 00:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> coughs in matrix |
| 00:56 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ? |
| 00:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> matrix has its own dedicated minetest channel not relayed anywhere |
| 00:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We are ultimately not going to be able to bridge every corner of each platform onto every other platform because users don't necessarily want to interact with the entire community all the time. |
| 00:56 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I mean, migrate all platforms to shared channels that are all relayed |
| 00:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ofc, but that can be handled in pms |
| 00:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> let me clue you in, matrix relay solutions sucks, majorly |
| 00:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ah neer messed with the relay parts yet other than minetest to irc |
| 00:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> *never |
| 00:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Every relay I've touched with is pretty janky, and they get jankier under non-trivial trafific. |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> yet I know people who have gotten irc to matrix solutions working |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> messages out of order, never showing up, very slow |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> yes thats a problem |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Very easy to get Matrix/IRC bridge working, but kinda hard to keep it working. |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> hehe |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> or get it working well |
| 00:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> this discord relay to irc is fairly instant |
| 00:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yes, but irc <> matrix or discord <> matrix is shit |
| 00:59 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> maybe the solution is to write a better more userfreindly irc client |
| 00:59 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> with the modern features implemented over top |
| 00:59 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> then get the matrix ppl to move back to irc |
| 00:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> TheLounge |
| 00:59 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> then bridge to discord |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> theLounge? |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> looking up now |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> good luck, people use what they want to use |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> eh its a web irc client |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I think people would much rather use a native app |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's the best IRC client in terms of Discord-like feature parity. |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> you must be on iOS :-D |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> nah, win11, and linux |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> and android |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Okay, well that's kind of ironic because those are the platforms where TheLounge actually offers a pretty native-like experience, especially on Android. |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^this |
| 01:02 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> well its just that its a web app... |
| 01:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> discord essentially is a web app with a little bit more fancyness |
| 01:02 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> true |
| 01:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's a PWA and android's PWA support is so good it actually packages up a dynamically-generated APK to offer an experience that's frankly kind of hard to distinguish from native unless you know where to look. |
| 01:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Don't knock it until you've tried it. |
| 01:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also we accept that is a relayed area, so feature parity is not equal, relaying everything is going to be annoying tbh |
| 01:17 |
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| 01:21 |
Wuzzy |
JT2 will soon reach year 200! |
| 01:28 |
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| 01:31 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> article: Looking Back Across Two Centuries of Minetest History |
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| 13:35 |
debiankaios |
is a admin there? |
| 13:35 |
debiankaios |
i changed my mail from forum |
| 13:35 |
debiankaios |
and i don't get a activation-mail |
| 13:36 |
debiankaios |
i presed 3 time resend activation mail now |
| 13:36 |
debiankaios |
there stand ishould contact a board administrator |
| 13:42 |
debiankaios |
if an admin come here please ping me |
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| 15:46 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> erlehmann, are you there? |
| 15:48 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> I made a new repo for my chat logger thing cuz i realised the bot in the private repo had a few other things. I hope it works as i cant really test from my phone but here it is: https://github.com/Minetest-j45/mt_chat_logger |
| 15:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> This is unreadable |
| 15:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Why do you spam linebreaks? |
| 15:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> jesus that's quite the line breaks |
| 15:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> line ending issues? |
| 15:49 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Cuz i did this phone my phone and my editor is bad |
| 15:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I should've warned you when you proposed this idea already. |
| 15:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> you can do a find and replace finding all \n\n and replacing it with just \n |
| 15:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> This can trivially be abused to sniff unencrypted Minetest traffic |
| 15:50 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> What can be abused? |
| 15:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> You should've depended on the proxy IMO BTW |
| 15:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> sniff sniff smells like someone's mining mese |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> j45: since this operates at network layer, it can be abused in a MITM-ish attack |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Well anyone could make a bot like this |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> arguably you're just facilitating it for script kiddies |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> MT really needs to start encrypting it's traffic |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Most of the code is from himbeer's proxy |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> The SRP auth is safe |
| 15:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Anything else - including potentially sensitive chat messages - unfortunately is not |
| 15:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I remember raising this a while ago on the forums |
| 15:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> IIRC the response was something along the lines of "just don't send your bank details in chat" |
| 15:52 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Lol |
| 15:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> awesome. so what if someone is in an oppressive country? |
| 15:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Keep the juicy stuff off MT then |
| 15:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> It is a tradeoff to be made. Not encrypting stuff might be marginally faster. But especially for stuff like chat messages, encryption would be preferrable. |
| 15:53 |
erlehmann |
j45 i am there |
| 15:54 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Hey |
| 15:54 |
erlehmann |
naisu |
| 15:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Especially considering powerful commands like WE's //lua: Given an insecure environment, a MITM attacker could use this to enter a privileged user <-> server connection, eventually gaining server control |
| 15:54 |
erlehmann |
j45 next step: fuzzing the network protocol. |
| 15:55 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> ? |
| 15:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I toyed with the idea of allowing server management through Minetest, but came to the conclusion that particularly powerful stuff like a file manager or terminal access simply shouldn't be implemented through Minetest as it's way too insecure. |
| 15:56 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Why fuzz it tho? |
| 15:57 |
erlehmann |
to make it less buggy |
| 15:58 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> All i wanted was a bot to log chat messages to a file, i dont really want to do any dodgy stuff |
| 15:59 |
erlehmann |
well i want to |
| 15:59 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Lol |
| 15:59 |
erlehmann |
because there are assholes out there who will do it first |
| 15:59 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Feel free |
| 15:59 |
erlehmann |
so better someone does it before some clown starts crashing servers |
| 16:00 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> True |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
recently kay27 did a commit to kick players that suffocate others |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
bc mr_anderson did that |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
build a block in some other players head who is afk |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
and then leave |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
i.e. not even being online when the other player dies |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
i mean a node |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
not a block |
| 16:00 |
erlehmann |
^^ |
| 16:00 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Yea |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:05 |
erlehmann |
j45 in general i am in favor of doing all the shit that the griefers do before they figure it out and then patching it |
| 16:05 |
erlehmann |
griefers in general are stupid adversaries, mostly because of their goal. they immediately use their knowledge to fuck shit up. |
| 16:08 |
erlehmann |
luatic the waspsaliva client actually contains encrypted chat https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/blob/HEAD:/clientmods/wisp/init.lua |
| 16:08 |
erlehmann |
> a clientmod for minetest that lets people send 1 on 1 encrypted messages |
| 16:11 |
erlehmann |
i guess people who think default end to end encrypted chat is about their bank details did not think about it much |
| 16:12 |
erlehmann |
> It is a tradeoff to be made. Not encrypting stuff might be marginally faster. |
| 16:14 |
erlehmann |
computers are fast. i am posting from a thinkpad t60. it can handle encryption very well. the real performance bottlenecks you have nowadays is stuff like discord or element matrix client, both are super laggy on computers that run minetest just fine. |
| 16:17 |
erlehmann |
j45 i have a question, do you have some knowledge to improve the minetest wireshark dissector maybe? |
| 16:18 |
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| 16:24 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Nope |
| 16:25 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Himbeer would but he has been very busy for a while |
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| 16:32 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> If you want to see the api for sending/receiving packets, see https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/anon55555/mt |
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| 16:51 |
erlehmann |
j45 himbeer who made the multiserver? |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> Yes |
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| 19:33 |
definitelya |
Did anyone else experience deprecation warnings that cause a crash on Berzerkpt game? I can't even start it on Linux in 5.4.1. |
| 19:51 |
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| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
worked for me on 5.5 |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
when I tested it a few days ago |
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| 19:54 |
definitelya |
ok, I'll try figure it out. |
| 20:03 |
Krock |
warnings that cause a crash? |
| 20:03 |
Krock |
it would be an error in this case. |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:43 |
definitelya |
https://github.com/FreeLANMan/Berzerkpt/issues/1 |
| 20:44 |
definitelya |
Sorry, I'm AFK. |
| 20:44 |
Krock |
https://github.com/3scale/lua-resty-url/issues/11 |
| 20:45 |
Krock |
probably caused by Lua 5.1.5 |
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| 21:26 |
Fixer |
Merry Christmas! |
| 21:26 |
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| 22:36 |
definitelya |
I should specify it in CMAKE flags I'm guessing; anyways, thanks for the help. |
| 22:37 |
Krock |
either fix the code or use another Lua version |
| 22:37 |
definitelya |
ok |
| 22:37 |
Krock |
at least according to that issue, that seems to be the culprit |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Krock: Neither Lua 5.1 nor LuaJIT support nested long string notation |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> definitelya: Delete the outcommented code as I have said on GH |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> This seems to be an interesting case though |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 1. These are comments; 2. Lua 5.1 parses it differently - it isn't really nested |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> definitelya: Switching to LuaJIT will in fact mysteriously fix the issue too |
| 22:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Alright, the following is the case from what I can see: The comments contain long comment openers. LuaJIT starts at the first opener and treats everything as comment until the first long comment closer. Lua 5.1 errors as soon as it encounters another opener within the long comment. |
| 22:56 |
definitelya |
Interesting, well I'm off to sleep. ^^ |
| 22:56 |
definitelya |
Merry Christmas btw! |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:34 |
erlehmann |
i have the same problem, what is the solution? https://github.com/FreeLANMan/Berzerkpt/issues/1 |
| 23:34 |
erlehmann |
luatic how did this ever run? |
| 23:35 |
erlehmann |
i mean what is the solution that is not “delete the commented out code” |
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