Time Nick Message 00:05 yaman If that's the case, then using them as a way to count reviews will likely lead to inaccurate results, right? This is especially true when reviews are voted on inconsistently. Some games receive many review votes while others receive nearly none. At the very least, we can use the total review count. Those who believe that a review shouldn't be counted (by helpful/unhelpful rating) are free to leave a review of their own. 00:07 MTDiscord Tbh the voting rampages like Zughy's one is just ruining the whole thing 00:08 MTDiscord It is getting to a point where community votes are kinda useless 00:11 yaman I appreciate the reviews from the community, as long as they are thoughtful. On the other hand, invalidating reviews because a few others disagree with no stated reasons is unhelpful. If others disagree, they should post their own review explaining their point of view, which would also be factored into the community score. 00:44 MTDiscord These are all valid points. Id say that they should factor heavily into how we do the next jam. This jam, I think we should not change the rules after the fact, but we should learn from the problems with this system and adjust it next time 00:46 MTDiscord We wanted to give the community a voice but to some extent we can't make it use that voice responsibly. There may be some dishonest actors but we haven't seen a full-blown attack against CDB or anything, so it would be manageable if more honest people simply put in the effort to rate games and give feedback. 00:47 MTDiscord Trying to game CDB is really just mutually assured destruction anyway, and since the winner will be determined by their score relative to others, it may not make much of a difference in the rankings in the end. 00:48 MisterE testing the irc client on minetest 00:48 MTDiscord huh it displays my icon and posts as me. That is mildly concerning 00:49 MTDiscord yes, wrong 00:49 MTDiscord ... 00:49 MTDiscord it doesnt post as you 00:49 MTDiscord ok, but is shows my icon 00:50 MTDiscord The Discord webhook thing guesses your icon based on IRC name matching with Discord name. 00:50 MTDiscord someone else could join as mistere on irc and seem to be me 00:50 MTDiscord yeah only mildly concering ll 00:50 MTDiscord Well that's what kickname registrations are for ;-) 00:50 MTDiscord ^ 00:50 MTDiscord nickname registrations (but also kickname, if you set ENFORCE on) 00:51 MTDiscord If it really bugs you but you don't plan on using IRC much, you only really need to log in once a month or three to make sure your registration doesn't expire. 00:51 MTDiscord it doesnt bother me 00:51 wsor test 00:52 wsor figures nicks out 00:52 wsor4035 probably not this 00:52 MisterE ah yeah 00:52 wsor4035 matrix sucks as usual 00:54 MTDiscord Is there any reason that we can't set up our own irc server, and then run the bot to connect every minetest discord channel to a mirrored irc channel, and do the same for element with its minetest space and rooms? Thus bringing the community closer together. I have a bit of experience running irc servers 00:55 MTDiscord or do people on libera want to have minetest as just a few channels, next to a bunch of other channels that they frequesnt 00:55 MTDiscord everyone lets relay discord to "better" places, but they dont want to relay there own spaces 00:55 MTDiscord coughs in matrix 00:56 MTDiscord ? 00:56 MTDiscord matrix has its own dedicated minetest channel not relayed anywhere 00:56 MTDiscord We are ultimately not going to be able to bridge every corner of each platform onto every other platform because users don't necessarily want to interact with the entire community all the time. 00:56 MTDiscord I mean, migrate all platforms to shared channels that are all relayed 00:57 MTDiscord ofc, but that can be handled in pms 00:57 MTDiscord let me clue you in, matrix relay solutions sucks, majorly 00:57 MTDiscord ah neer messed with the relay parts yet other than minetest to irc 00:57 MTDiscord *never 00:57 MTDiscord Every relay I've touched with is pretty janky, and they get jankier under non-trivial trafific. 00:58 MTDiscord yet I know people who have gotten irc to matrix solutions working 00:58 MTDiscord messages out of order, never showing up, very slow 00:58 MTDiscord yes thats a problem 00:58 MTDiscord Very easy to get Matrix/IRC bridge working, but kinda hard to keep it working. 00:58 MTDiscord hehe 00:58 MTDiscord or get it working well 00:58 MTDiscord this discord relay to irc is fairly instant 00:59 MTDiscord yes, but irc <> matrix or discord <> matrix is shit 00:59 MTDiscord maybe the solution is to write a better more userfreindly irc client 00:59 MTDiscord with the modern features implemented over top 00:59 MTDiscord then get the matrix ppl to move back to irc 00:59 MTDiscord TheLounge 00:59 MTDiscord then bridge to discord 01:00 MTDiscord theLounge? 01:00 MTDiscord looking up now 01:00 MTDiscord good luck, people use what they want to use 01:00 MTDiscord eh its a web irc client 01:00 MTDiscord I think people would much rather use a native app 01:00 MTDiscord It's the best IRC client in terms of Discord-like feature parity. 01:01 MTDiscord you must be on iOS :-D 01:01 MTDiscord nah, win11, and linux 01:01 MTDiscord and android 01:01 MTDiscord Okay, well that's kind of ironic because those are the platforms where TheLounge actually offers a pretty native-like experience, especially on Android. 01:01 MTDiscord ^this 01:02 MTDiscord well its just that its a web app... 01:02 MTDiscord discord essentially is a web app with a little bit more fancyness 01:02 MTDiscord true 01:02 MTDiscord It's a PWA and android's PWA support is so good it actually packages up a dynamically-generated APK to offer an experience that's frankly kind of hard to distinguish from native unless you know where to look. 01:03 MTDiscord Don't knock it until you've tried it. 01:03 MTDiscord also we accept that is a relayed area, so feature parity is not equal, relaying everything is going to be annoying tbh 01:21 Wuzzy JT2 will soon reach year 200! 01:31 MTDiscord article: Looking Back Across Two Centuries of Minetest History 13:35 debiankaios is a admin there? 13:35 debiankaios i changed my mail from forum 13:35 debiankaios and i don't get a activation-mail 13:36 debiankaios i presed 3 time resend activation mail now 13:36 debiankaios there stand ishould contact a board administrator 13:42 debiankaios if an admin come here please ping me 15:46 MTDiscord erlehmann, are you there? 15:48 MTDiscord I made a new repo for my chat logger thing cuz i realised the bot in the private repo had a few other things. I hope it works as i cant really test from my phone but here it is: https://github.com/Minetest-j45/mt_chat_logger 15:48 MTDiscord This is unreadable 15:48 MTDiscord Why do you spam linebreaks? 15:48 MTDiscord jesus that's quite the line breaks 15:49 MTDiscord line ending issues? 15:49 MTDiscord Cuz i did this phone my phone and my editor is bad 15:49 MTDiscord I should've warned you when you proposed this idea already. 15:49 MTDiscord you can do a find and replace finding all \n\n and replacing it with just \n 15:49 MTDiscord This can trivially be abused to sniff unencrypted Minetest traffic 15:50 MTDiscord What can be abused? 15:50 MTDiscord You should've depended on the proxy IMO BTW 15:50 MTDiscord sniff sniff smells like someone's mining mese 15:51 MTDiscord j45: since this operates at network layer, it can be abused in a MITM-ish attack 15:51 MTDiscord Well anyone could make a bot like this 15:51 MTDiscord arguably you're just facilitating it for script kiddies 15:51 MTDiscord MT really needs to start encrypting it's traffic 15:51 MTDiscord Most of the code is from himbeer's proxy 15:51 MTDiscord The SRP auth is safe 15:52 MTDiscord Anything else - including potentially sensitive chat messages - unfortunately is not 15:52 MTDiscord I remember raising this a while ago on the forums 15:52 MTDiscord IIRC the response was something along the lines of "just don't send your bank details in chat" 15:52 MTDiscord Lol 15:53 MTDiscord awesome. so what if someone is in an oppressive country? 15:53 MTDiscord Keep the juicy stuff off MT then 15:53 MTDiscord It is a tradeoff to be made. Not encrypting stuff might be marginally faster. But especially for stuff like chat messages, encryption would be preferrable. 15:53 erlehmann j45 i am there 15:54 MTDiscord Hey 15:54 erlehmann naisu 15:54 MTDiscord Especially considering powerful commands like WE's //lua: Given an insecure environment, a MITM attacker could use this to enter a privileged user <-> server connection, eventually gaining server control 15:54 erlehmann j45 next step: fuzzing the network protocol. 15:55 MTDiscord ? 15:55 MTDiscord I toyed with the idea of allowing server management through Minetest, but came to the conclusion that particularly powerful stuff like a file manager or terminal access simply shouldn't be implemented through Minetest as it's way too insecure. 15:56 MTDiscord Why fuzz it tho? 15:57 erlehmann to make it less buggy 15:58 MTDiscord All i wanted was a bot to log chat messages to a file, i dont really want to do any dodgy stuff 15:59 erlehmann well i want to 15:59 MTDiscord Lol 15:59 erlehmann because there are assholes out there who will do it first 15:59 MTDiscord Feel free 15:59 erlehmann so better someone does it before some clown starts crashing servers 16:00 MTDiscord True 16:00 erlehmann recently kay27 did a commit to kick players that suffocate others 16:00 erlehmann bc mr_anderson did that 16:00 erlehmann build a block in some other players head who is afk 16:00 erlehmann and then leave 16:00 erlehmann i.e. not even being online when the other player dies 16:00 erlehmann i mean a node 16:00 erlehmann not a block 16:00 erlehmann ^^ 16:00 MTDiscord Yea 16:05 erlehmann j45 in general i am in favor of doing all the shit that the griefers do before they figure it out and then patching it 16:05 erlehmann griefers in general are stupid adversaries, mostly because of their goal. they immediately use their knowledge to fuck shit up. 16:08 erlehmann luatic the waspsaliva client actually contains encrypted chat https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/blob/HEAD:/clientmods/wisp/init.lua 16:08 erlehmann > a clientmod for minetest that lets people send 1 on 1 encrypted messages 16:11 erlehmann i guess people who think default end to end encrypted chat is about their bank details did not think about it much 16:12 erlehmann > It is a tradeoff to be made. Not encrypting stuff might be marginally faster. 16:14 erlehmann computers are fast. i am posting from a thinkpad t60. it can handle encryption very well. the real performance bottlenecks you have nowadays is stuff like discord or element matrix client, both are super laggy on computers that run minetest just fine. 16:17 erlehmann j45 i have a question, do you have some knowledge to improve the minetest wireshark dissector maybe? 16:24 MTDiscord Nope 16:25 MTDiscord Himbeer would but he has been very busy for a while 16:32 MTDiscord If you want to see the api for sending/receiving packets, see https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/anon55555/mt 16:51 erlehmann j45 himbeer who made the multiserver? 16:53 MTDiscord Yes 19:33 definitelya Did anyone else experience deprecation warnings that cause a crash on Berzerkpt game? I can't even start it on Linux in 5.4.1. 19:52 sfan5 worked for me on 5.5 19:52 sfan5 when I tested it a few days ago 19:54 definitelya ok, I'll try figure it out. 20:03 Krock warnings that cause a crash? 20:03 Krock it would be an error in this case. 20:43 definitelya https://github.com/FreeLANMan/Berzerkpt/issues/1 20:44 definitelya Sorry, I'm AFK. 20:44 Krock https://github.com/3scale/lua-resty-url/issues/11 20:45 Krock probably caused by Lua 5.1.5 21:26 Fixer Merry Christmas! 22:36 definitelya I should specify it in CMAKE flags I'm guessing; anyways, thanks for the help. 22:37 Krock either fix the code or use another Lua version 22:37 definitelya ok 22:37 Krock at least according to that issue, that seems to be the culprit 22:46 MTDiscord Krock: Neither Lua 5.1 nor LuaJIT support nested long string notation 22:46 MTDiscord definitelya: Delete the outcommented code as I have said on GH 22:47 MTDiscord This seems to be an interesting case though 22:47 MTDiscord 1. These are comments; 2. Lua 5.1 parses it differently - it isn't really nested 22:48 MTDiscord definitelya: Switching to LuaJIT will in fact mysteriously fix the issue too 22:50 MTDiscord Alright, the following is the case from what I can see: The comments contain long comment openers. LuaJIT starts at the first opener and treats everything as comment until the first long comment closer. Lua 5.1 errors as soon as it encounters another opener within the long comment. 22:56 definitelya Interesting, well I'm off to sleep. ^^ 22:56 definitelya Merry Christmas btw! 23:34 erlehmann i have the same problem, what is the solution? https://github.com/FreeLANMan/Berzerkpt/issues/1 23:34 erlehmann luatic how did this ever run? 23:35 erlehmann i mean what is the solution that is not “delete the commented out code”