| Time |
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Message |
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Splyncryth |
is there a link to servers specs? How much memory per user, cpu use, network use, etc... |
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VanessaE |
the biggest thing you have to be concerned about, Splyncryth, is the memory used by your mods |
| 02:40 |
VanessaE |
number of users doesn't have a significant impact, other than how much of the map they cause your server to load-up |
| 02:40 |
VanessaE |
CPU is more or less the same issue |
| 02:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> as long as entities are in the same general mapblock |
| 02:43 |
VanessaE |
my server machine has a 3.some GHz Xeon with 4 cores/8 threads, 32 GB RAM, 200 MBps pipe, and runs 7 game instances. it's not common for it to use more than 2 threads' worth of CPU, 8 GB of RAM, and 10 Mbps of bandwidth. even during its heyday it barely exceeded that |
| 02:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> (ie 80x80x80 segment) you can roughly have several thousand active entities |
| 02:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> if not more |
| 02:44 |
VanessaE |
that's a chunk, not a mapblock :P |
| 02:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> clients can actually handle this quitewell |
| 02:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> even an eight year old Intel CPU handles that |
| 02:47 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Depends on if those entities have animations or are static. Animated entities starts to bog down at ~150 entities |
| 02:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> that's because your constantly spamming packets at clients |
| 02:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> big nono |
| 02:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> my games entities are two classes: player attached, or cosmetic entirely |
| 02:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> cosmetic delete themselves the moment their job is done (as well as self removal on server start) |
| 02:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> players are destroyed on join/leave, but are entirely visual |
| 02:53 |
specing |
speaking of packet spam, is it just me or is every node's formspec sent whenever it's updated? |
| 02:53 |
specing |
i.e. machines => a lot of traffic? |
| 02:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> no, just the map meta info for the whole 16^3 area |
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eyekay[m] |
<adfeno "No, it doesnt."> iirc you need to start from an elevation, as the height _is_ gained, but very slowly, when spacebar is pressed |
| 03:44 |
eyekay[m] |
* iirc you need to start from an elevation, as the height _is_ gained, but very slowly, when spacebar is pressed. |
| 03:44 |
eyekay[m] |
And there is another (better) flying carpet mod but I don't remember its name.. Its from some aviation-related modpack |
| 03:48 |
specing |
Jordach so, all the formspecs in that 16^3? |
| 03:49 |
specing |
Jordach and probably all the formspecs in the neighbouring 16^3 blocks? |
| 04:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it doesn't resend formspecs |
| 04:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> just node metadata |
| 04:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> ie, the node, meta fields, param1/2 |
| 04:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> formspecs are only sent when needed |
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| 09:35 |
Flitzpiepe |
hello everyone |
| 09:39 |
Emerald2 |
G'day Flitzpiepe. |
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| 12:06 |
hisforever |
Hi, What mod do I have to install for other people? |
| 12:23 |
Emerald2 |
What other people, hisforever? |
| 12:24 |
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| 12:25 |
Emerald2 |
Like NPC villagers? Or traders? |
| 12:29 |
hisforever |
yes I need them |
| 12:29 |
Emerald2 |
Can you be more specific about what you want them to do? There are multiple mods. |
| 12:32 |
Emerald2 |
There are ones that seem to build and things: https://content.minetest.net/packages/theFox/working_villages/ |
| 12:32 |
hisforever |
what I need is charters that will be behing a counter |
| 12:33 |
Emerald2 |
Traders? |
| 12:34 |
Emerald2 |
Like these? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9013 |
| 12:36 |
Emerald2 |
I don't know what MT version they support though. I just searched the forum. |
| 12:37 |
hisforever |
thanks thats what I needed God bless |
| 12:42 |
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| 12:57 |
Splyncryth |
Hi everyone, if I want to hose a minetest server on a vps how much hardware would I need for 2-4 players? |
| 12:58 |
Splyncryth |
This would be on a v7 map, with 20+ mods |
| 12:58 |
Splyncryth |
minecraft has a chart breaking down memory and cpu use, is there one for minetest? |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:04 |
Emerald2 |
I've never heard of there being any such chart. |
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| 14:01 |
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| 14:09 |
BuckarooBanzai |
Splyncryth: 2-4 players and 20+ mods should even fit on a raspberry pi 4 :) i think with 2gb+ and 2 or more cores you are good to go |
| 14:10 |
BuckarooBanzai |
(depending on the mods of course, if you plan to add a couple of "heavy" tech-mods it can get tight real quick) |
| 14:11 |
Splyncryth |
nice |
| 14:11 |
Splyncryth |
does exploration add to memory use? |
| 14:12 |
Splyncryth |
as in multiple people exploring different, new areas, of the map? |
| 14:12 |
BuckarooBanzai |
not really, but it will cause some lag spikes |
| 14:12 |
BuckarooBanzai |
*it causes |
| 14:12 |
Splyncryth |
nice! |
| 14:12 |
Splyncryth |
sounds more streamlined than minecraft |
| 14:13 |
BuckarooBanzai |
also: i recommend turning on luajit for (far) better performance |
| 14:13 |
Splyncryth |
how? |
| 14:14 |
BuckarooBanzai |
i guess you are compiling the engine from source, right? if so: you need some additional luajit-dev packages, depending on your distro |
| 14:14 |
Splyncryth |
im not |
| 14:14 |
Splyncryth |
getting right off the repo |
| 14:15 |
BuckarooBanzai |
ah, no idea how or with what features that gets shipped, sorry :P |
| 14:16 |
BuckarooBanzai |
if you enter "minetest --version" you should see whats enabled and what not |
| 14:16 |
BuckarooBanzai |
in luajit's case: "USE_LUAJIT=1" |
| 14:18 |
Splyncryth |
looks like repo version has it turned on! |
| 14:18 |
BuckarooBanzai |
nice, what engine-version? i hope 5.0 or above... |
| 14:22 |
Splyncryth |
5.1.1 |
| 14:23 |
BuckarooBanzai |
5.3 is the latest version, but 5.1.1will do fine i guess |
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| 17:24 |
Krock |
!tell kilbith no, inherited from PilzAdam. I don't know how to model. if I did, I had changed it to a shallower model long time ago |
| 17:24 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: I'll pass that on when kilbith is around |
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| 19:40 |
jluc |
hello |
| 19:40 |
Krock |
hi |
| 19:43 |
jluc |
my son and i want to create a minetest server |
| 19:44 |
jluc |
can you advise a webhoster that is cheap and sufficient for such a project ? |
| 19:44 |
Krock |
your Raspberry PI at home |
| 19:45 |
Krock |
cannot give any better answer, sorry. |
| 19:45 |
jluc |
ok that's a fun and nice answer |
| 19:45 |
jluc |
2 projects in one ! |
| 19:46 |
sfan5 |
note that Minetest requires a Linux environment with shell access to run, ideally a VPS; specifically "web hosting" won't cut it |
| 19:46 |
Krock |
too bad. there's only a setup guide, but no server host list |
| 19:46 |
Krock |
(neither does cloud hosting) |
| 19:47 |
sfan5 |
what people mean when the say "cloud hosting" varies wildly |
| 19:47 |
Krock |
for most cases I've seen it's meant as private fiel storage |
| 19:47 |
Krock |
but yes indeed, it's a very unclear term |
| 19:48 |
Ingar |
you can get a cheap vps for less than 10 EUR/month |
| 19:52 |
Krock |
digitalocean, linode, virmach, ... |
| 19:53 |
jluc |
when the raspberry pi is ok, i guess any cheap vps is ok |
| 19:54 |
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| 19:54 |
Krock |
well, you should have 1 GiB of RAM for sure, and enough storage just to be sure |
| 19:54 |
Krock |
it all comes down to how heavy mods you'd like to use |
| 19:55 |
jluc |
ah |
| 19:55 |
Krock |
also keep in mind that microsd cards aren't designed for frequent writes. small ones will wear out very quickly when most space is used |
| 19:56 |
Krock |
speaking of long-term. for a family project it's probably enough |
| 19:57 |
jluc |
yes we dont plan being big as for now |
| 20:13 |
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| 20:14 |
SwissalpS |
an old laptop is great too |
| 20:15 |
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| 20:15 |
Vagabond[m] |
I think one of the significant differences between a Pi/Laptop locally, versus a VPS is accessibility. Generally, a local machine won't be accessible by the Internet at large, whereas most VPS have static IPs. |
| 20:16 |
jluc |
and i dont like the idea of having a machine home running 24/24 |
| 20:16 |
specing |
self-host: big disk+tiny network, vps: tiny disk+big network |
| 20:16 |
Krock |
is Minetest playable on a Samsung smart fridge? |
| 20:16 |
jluc |
i suppose industrial hosters have a better climate-impact ratio |
| 20:17 |
specing |
Krock | your Raspberry PI at home |
| 20:17 |
specing |
just don't buy that, it's a waste |
| 20:17 |
jluc |
why so specing ? |
| 20:18 |
specing |
jluc: "climate-impact"? |
| 20:18 |
specing |
jluc: RPI is not open source hardware, and the company behind it is hostile to software freedom |
| 20:19 |
jluc |
well burning petrol for 2020V AC to have it run |
| 20:20 |
specing |
jluc: your home is off-grid and running on petrol generators? |
| 20:21 |
SwissalpS |
when I hear 'family server' I think LAN and not running 24/7 |
| 20:22 |
jluc |
i dont have engines running 24/24 apart a small (unsmart) fridge |
| 20:24 |
jluc |
oh, lol, no not off grid, but AC comes from atom and petrol, neither being future friendly |
| 20:24 |
specing |
atom = nuclear? |
| 20:24 |
jluc |
yes |
| 20:25 |
specing |
nuclear is future friendly and is one of the greenest |
| 20:25 |
jluc |
:-) and girls are born in roses |
| 20:26 |
specing |
wind = 10gCO2equiv, nuclear=11g, solar(panels)=45g |
| 20:26 |
specing |
per kWh |
| 20:27 |
SwissalpS |
solar doesn't have the radioactive waste problem though |
| 20:28 |
jluc |
pff i dont have same numbers lol : 490g/kwH for nuclear |
| 20:29 |
jluc |
but i wouldnt mind just keep on topic |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
nuclear is necessary but not perfect |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
until we have better batteries and lots more renewables, nuclear is here to stay |
| 20:30 |
heavygale |
and stay forever |
| 20:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> for budget vps hosting: ive seen a few people recommend: https://contabo.com/?show=vps |
| 20:30 |
specing |
jluc | pff i dont have same numbers lol : 490g/kwH for nuclear |
| 20:30 |
specing |
what on earth |
| 20:30 |
specing |
how/where does it say 490g/kWh of nuclear? |
| 20:31 |
specing |
Jonathon they oversell. A lot. |
| 20:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you would have to ask someone like warr1024 who uses them, just seen them recommend |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You talking about rpis? |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't use them for bulk or economical compute power. I use them when I need to get computing into a specific tight place, and access to things like power or network at that specific location may be limited. |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you're talking about contabo, I've had pretty good results from them so far. I use the SSD S VPS, and it's like $5 a month and plenty to run my smallish MT server with tons of overhead to spare. |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If someone else runs an MT server that's either higher traffic, or with higher complexity mods, I'd be interested to hear at what point things start to break down. |
| 20:51 |
jluc |
smthg like 4€/month "contabo vps 300" ? |
| 20:53 |
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| 20:53 |
LoneWolfHT |
I have this link saved for when I want to start a server https://contabo.com/?show=configurator&vserver_id=221 |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> That's cheaper than the SSD S, but I went with the SSD S not specifically because of the faster hard disk, but because the number of cores and RAM were both double at that price point. |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> yeah, the id=221 is the one I use. |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, it's 20% more expensive than the VPS 300, but 120% of almost nothing is still almost nothing. |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's really hard to find anything cheaper than this, other than free stuff. Free stuff unfortunately means you're not really a "customer" to someone, and thus you can't rely on that relationship. |
| 20:56 |
jluc |
is mtdiscord coming from some Discord bridge ? |
| 20:57 |
jluc |
i dont see any minetest related chan on default discord |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> yeah. I'm in IRC too (assuming my client isn't crashed out) but sometimes I just happen to be closer to the Discord side of things so it can be more convenient to just talk from here. |
| 20:57 |
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| 20:58 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> What is "default discord"? |
| 20:59 |
Calinou |
Contabo looks nice, thanks for the link :) |
| 20:59 |
Calinou |
will keep them around in case I have to recommend a VPS host to others |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm a bit surprised about how Contabo is able to offer stuff at such a low price, but I think it's a combination of (1) economies of scale, e.g. they have a few largeish datacenters, and (2) they don't have like huge brand recognition like Amazon Web Services or Azure or Google Cloud that allow them to charge like 20x for comparable services. |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> They're also not an "on demand" kind of provider where you can requisition thousands of servers, use them for 15 minutes, then shut them all down, and be billed only for the actual seconds of compute time you used, so that may be a significant factor too :-) |
| 21:03 |
jluc |
yes it looks interesting but do i undestand well that HTTPS is a 75€ option ? |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
you can get free certificates from Let's Encrypt |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
no need to get one from them |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
@Warr1024 In France, we have many hosts that operate as nonprofits and are able to provide such low prices as well |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
support staffers are usually not paid, they just do it as a hobby |
| 21:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, selling TLS certs for money this day and age ... :-/ |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
https://pulseheberg.com/ is an example of this |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
(they only speak French, though) |
| 21:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Oof, language barrier is harsh |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
it probably helps decrease their support burden :) |
| 21:05 |
Calinou |
I'm French so it's no problem for me |
| 21:05 |
jluc |
ah c'est chouette ça aussi calinou |
| 21:05 |
jluc |
:-) |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> When I bought the Contabo server, I got everything bare minimum. On the flip side, I know how to manage the whole system myself, so for anyone looking for MT hosting who doesn't do all that stuff, it may be a bit more difficult to keep prices down. |
| 21:06 |
jluc |
but i read its for students only calinou |
| 21:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I haven't used minecity.online myself, but I see them interacting with the community quite a bit. It's much pricier at like $15 USD per month or something, but they also provide good minetest-specific support. |
| 21:06 |
Calinou |
jluc: no, they have offers for everyone |
| 21:06 |
Calinou |
student offers are only for shared hosting so you can get a better price |
| 21:07 |
jluc |
i see |
| 21:07 |
jluc |
that's an alternative to ovh |
| 21:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Everyone should be a lifelong student anyway :-) |
| 21:08 |
jluc |
sure ! but this doesnt require/provide an official student card |
| 21:09 |
Calinou |
I'm no longer a student :'( |
| 21:09 |
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| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You're always SOME kind of student as long as you're learning :-D |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Can I home-school myself for grad school and print myself a student ID...? |
| 21:10 |
Calinou |
usually, online university isn't accepted in student deals |
| 21:10 |
Calinou |
but it depends on the deal in question, there's no real standard |
| 21:10 |
Calinou |
some deals will require inputting an university email address, others will require you to send a PDF scan of some document (which isn't always verified manually!) |
| 21:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Makes sense, they have to draw a line somewhere or else their student offer is just an everyone offer. |
| 21:11 |
Calinou |
I remember getting a student offer for Allegorithmic software, you get it instantly, which leads me to think the verification process was either automatic or completely absent |
| 21:11 |
Calinou |
(that was in 2016 and 2017) |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
I had to send a PDF of my registration certificate for that one |
| 21:14 |
specing |
Oh |
| 21:14 |
specing |
Contabo isn't even that cheap |
| 21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I havent seen anything cheaper? At least not for those specs |
| 21:22 |
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| 21:46 |
specing |
Yes, what I meant was that they are not that much cheaper than other similar hosters |
| 21:46 |
specing |
disk space is very high, but that's about it |
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| 22:23 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Still gotta reccomend genesishosting. They have great linux vps at around $3-5/mo depending on your server ram needs, and offer up to 25% discount when you get like 1-2 years paid up front. |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:27 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> You can get more cores, comprable memory, and triple the storage for a fraction of the price at contabo |
| 22:35 |
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MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> With student discounts sure? |
| 23:15 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Storage doesn't really matter for 99% of servers. Comparable memory would be impressive if that's for the public. Especially when combined with more cores... |
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fattywompus |
Hello minetesters... so if you were to get a VPS is there any kind of remote desktop option to manage it? Or is it strictly SSH in terminal? That seems like it would make things a lot easier for the uninitiated |
| 23:25 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> @exe_virus What student discounts? |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> For public use contabo provides six cores, 20GB RAM, 1400GB storage, 1000mbps for $15USD/mo |
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FrostRanger[m] |
exe_virus: I would have to disagree that storage generally doesn't matter much, map files and whatnot can get quite large |
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FrostRanger[m] |
especially if the server is quite popular |
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