Time Nick Message 01:43 Splyncryth is there a link to servers specs? How much memory per user, cpu use, network use, etc... 02:39 VanessaE the biggest thing you have to be concerned about, Splyncryth, is the memory used by your mods 02:40 VanessaE number of users doesn't have a significant impact, other than how much of the map they cause your server to load-up 02:40 VanessaE CPU is more or less the same issue 02:43 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> as long as entities are in the same general mapblock 02:43 VanessaE my server machine has a 3.some GHz Xeon with 4 cores/8 threads, 32 GB RAM, 200 MBps pipe, and runs 7 game instances. it's not common for it to use more than 2 threads' worth of CPU, 8 GB of RAM, and 10 Mbps of bandwidth. even during its heyday it barely exceeded that 02:44 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> (ie 80x80x80 segment) you can roughly have several thousand active entities 02:44 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> if not more 02:44 VanessaE that's a chunk, not a mapblock :P 02:44 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> clients can actually handle this quitewell 02:44 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> even an eight year old Intel CPU handles that 02:47 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Depends on if those entities have animations or are static. Animated entities starts to bog down at ~150 entities 02:48 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> that's because your constantly spamming packets at clients 02:48 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> big nono 02:49 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> my games entities are two classes: player attached, or cosmetic entirely 02:50 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> cosmetic delete themselves the moment their job is done (as well as self removal on server start) 02:50 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> players are destroyed on join/leave, but are entirely visual 02:53 specing speaking of packet spam, is it just me or is every node's formspec sent whenever it's updated? 02:53 specing i.e. machines => a lot of traffic? 02:54 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> no, just the map meta info for the whole 16^3 area 03:44 eyekay[m] iirc you need to start from an elevation, as the height _is_ gained, but very slowly, when spacebar is pressed 03:44 eyekay[m] * iirc you need to start from an elevation, as the height _is_ gained, but very slowly, when spacebar is pressed. 03:44 eyekay[m] And there is another (better) flying carpet mod but I don't remember its name.. Its from some aviation-related modpack 03:48 specing J​ordach so, all the formspecs in that 16^3? 03:49 specing J​ordach and probably all the formspecs in the neighbouring 16^3 blocks? 04:01 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> it doesn't resend formspecs 04:01 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> just node metadata 04:02 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> ie, the node, meta fields, param1/2 04:02 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> formspecs are only sent when needed 09:35 Flitzpiepe hello everyone 09:39 Emerald2 G'day Flitzpiepe. 12:06 hisforever Hi, What mod do I have to install for other people? 12:23 Emerald2 What other people, hisforever? 12:25 Emerald2 Like NPC villagers? Or traders? 12:29 hisforever yes I need them 12:29 Emerald2 Can you be more specific about what you want them to do? There are multiple mods. 12:32 Emerald2 There are ones that seem to build and things: https://content.minetest.net/packages/theFox/working_villages/ 12:32 hisforever what I need is charters that will be behing a counter 12:33 Emerald2 Traders? 12:34 Emerald2 Like these? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9013 12:36 Emerald2 I don't know what MT version they support though. I just searched the forum. 12:37 hisforever thanks thats what I needed God bless 12:57 Splyncryth Hi everyone, if I want to hose a minetest server on a vps how much hardware would I need for 2-4 players? 12:58 Splyncryth This would be on a v7 map, with 20+ mods 12:58 Splyncryth minecraft has a chart breaking down memory and cpu use, is there one for minetest? 13:04 Emerald2 I've never heard of there being any such chart. 14:09 BuckarooBanzai Splyncryth: 2-4 players and 20+ mods should even fit on a raspberry pi 4 :) i think with 2gb+ and 2 or more cores you are good to go 14:10 BuckarooBanzai (depending on the mods of course, if you plan to add a couple of "heavy" tech-mods it can get tight real quick) 14:11 Splyncryth nice 14:11 Splyncryth does exploration add to memory use? 14:12 Splyncryth as in multiple people exploring different, new areas, of the map? 14:12 BuckarooBanzai not really, but it will cause some lag spikes 14:12 BuckarooBanzai *it causes 14:12 Splyncryth nice! 14:12 Splyncryth sounds more streamlined than minecraft 14:13 BuckarooBanzai also: i recommend turning on luajit for (far) better performance 14:13 Splyncryth how? 14:14 BuckarooBanzai i guess you are compiling the engine from source, right? if so: you need some additional luajit-dev packages, depending on your distro 14:14 Splyncryth im not 14:14 Splyncryth getting right off the repo 14:15 BuckarooBanzai ah, no idea how or with what features that gets shipped, sorry :P 14:16 BuckarooBanzai if you enter "minetest --version" you should see whats enabled and what not 14:16 BuckarooBanzai in luajit's case: "USE_LUAJIT=1" 14:18 Splyncryth looks like repo version has it turned on! 14:18 BuckarooBanzai nice, what engine-version? i hope 5.0 or above... 14:22 Splyncryth 5.1.1 14:23 BuckarooBanzai 5.3 is the latest version, but 5.1.1will do fine i guess 17:24 Krock !tell kilbith no, inherited from PilzAdam. I don't know how to model. if I did, I had changed it to a shallower model long time ago 17:24 MinetestBot Krock: I'll pass that on when kilbith is around 19:40 jluc hello 19:40 Krock hi 19:43 jluc my son and i want to create a minetest server 19:44 jluc can you advise a webhoster that is cheap and sufficient for such a project ? 19:44 Krock your Raspberry PI at home 19:45 Krock cannot give any better answer, sorry. 19:45 jluc ok that's a fun and nice answer 19:45 jluc 2 projects in one ! 19:46 sfan5 note that Minetest requires a Linux environment with shell access to run, ideally a VPS; specifically "web hosting" won't cut it 19:46 Krock too bad. there's only a setup guide, but no server host list 19:46 Krock (neither does cloud hosting) 19:47 sfan5 what people mean when the say "cloud hosting" varies wildly 19:47 Krock for most cases I've seen it's meant as private fiel storage 19:47 Krock but yes indeed, it's a very unclear term 19:48 Ingar you can get a cheap vps for less than 10 EUR/month 19:52 Krock digitalocean, linode, virmach, ... 19:53 jluc when the raspberry pi is ok, i guess any cheap vps is ok 19:54 Krock well, you should have 1 GiB of RAM for sure, and enough storage just to be sure 19:54 Krock it all comes down to how heavy mods you'd like to use 19:55 jluc ah 19:55 Krock also keep in mind that microsd cards aren't designed for frequent writes. small ones will wear out very quickly when most space is used 19:56 Krock speaking of long-term. for a family project it's probably enough 19:57 jluc yes we dont plan being big as for now 20:14 SwissalpS an old laptop is great too 20:15 Vagabond[m] I think one of the significant differences between a Pi/Laptop locally, versus a VPS is accessibility. Generally, a local machine won't be accessible by the Internet at large, whereas most VPS have static IPs. 20:16 jluc and i dont like the idea of having a machine home running 24/24 20:16 specing self-host: big disk+tiny network, vps: tiny disk+big network 20:16 Krock is Minetest playable on a Samsung smart fridge? 20:16 jluc i suppose industrial hosters have a better climate-impact ratio 20:17 specing Krock | your Raspberry PI at home 20:17 specing just don't buy that, it's a waste 20:17 jluc why so specing ? 20:18 specing jluc: "climate-impact"? 20:18 specing jluc: RPI is not open source hardware, and the company behind it is hostile to software freedom 20:19 jluc well burning petrol for 2020V AC to have it run 20:20 specing jluc: your home is off-grid and running on petrol generators? 20:21 SwissalpS when I hear 'family server' I think LAN and not running 24/7 20:22 jluc i dont have engines running 24/24 apart a small (unsmart) fridge 20:24 jluc oh, lol, no not off grid, but AC comes from atom and petrol, neither being future friendly 20:24 specing atom = nuclear? 20:24 jluc yes 20:25 specing nuclear is future friendly and is one of the greenest 20:25 jluc :-) and girls are born in roses 20:26 specing wind = 10gCO2equiv, nuclear=11g, solar(panels)=45g 20:26 specing per kWh 20:27 SwissalpS solar doesn't have the radioactive waste problem though 20:28 jluc pff i dont have same numbers lol : 490g/kwH for nuclear 20:29 jluc but i wouldnt mind just keep on topic 20:29 rubenwardy nuclear is necessary but not perfect 20:29 rubenwardy until we have better batteries and lots more renewables, nuclear is here to stay 20:30 heavygale and stay forever 20:30 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> for budget vps hosting: ive seen a few people recommend: https://contabo.com/?show=vps 20:30 specing jluc | pff i dont have same numbers lol : 490g/kwH for nuclear 20:30 specing what on earth 20:30 specing how/where does it say 490g/kWh of nuclear? 20:31 specing Jonathon they oversell. A lot. 20:31 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> you would have to ask someone like warr1024 who uses them, just seen them recommend 20:47 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> You talking about rpis? 20:48 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> I don't use them for bulk or economical compute power. I use them when I need to get computing into a specific tight place, and access to things like power or network at that specific location may be limited. 20:49 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> If you're talking about contabo, I've had pretty good results from them so far. I use the SSD S VPS, and it's like $5 a month and plenty to run my smallish MT server with tons of overhead to spare. 20:49 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> If someone else runs an MT server that's either higher traffic, or with higher complexity mods, I'd be interested to hear at what point things start to break down. 20:51 jluc smthg like 4€/month "contabo vps 300" ? 20:53 LoneWolfHT I have this link saved for when I want to start a server https://contabo.com/?show=configurator&vserver_id=221 20:54 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> That's cheaper than the SSD S, but I went with the SSD S not specifically because of the faster hard disk, but because the number of cores and RAM were both double at that price point. 20:54 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> yeah, the id=221 is the one I use. 20:55 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> I mean, it's 20% more expensive than the VPS 300, but 120% of almost nothing is still almost nothing. 20:55 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> It's really hard to find anything cheaper than this, other than free stuff. Free stuff unfortunately means you're not really a "customer" to someone, and thus you can't rely on that relationship. 20:56 jluc is mtdiscord coming from some Discord bridge ? 20:57 jluc i dont see any minetest related chan on default discord 20:57 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> yeah. I'm in IRC too (assuming my client isn't crashed out) but sometimes I just happen to be closer to the Discord side of things so it can be more convenient to just talk from here. 20:58 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> What is "default discord"? 20:59 Calinou Contabo looks nice, thanks for the link :) 20:59 Calinou will keep them around in case I have to recommend a VPS host to others 21:02 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> I'm a bit surprised about how Contabo is able to offer stuff at such a low price, but I think it's a combination of (1) economies of scale, e.g. they have a few largeish datacenters, and (2) they don't have like huge brand recognition like Amazon Web Services or Azure or Google Cloud that allow them to charge like 20x for comparable services. 21:02 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> They're also not an "on demand" kind of provider where you can requisition thousands of servers, use them for 15 minutes, then shut them all down, and be billed only for the actual seconds of compute time you used, so that may be a significant factor too :-) 21:03 jluc yes it looks interesting but do i undestand well that HTTPS is a 75€ option ? 21:03 Calinou you can get free certificates from Let's Encrypt 21:03 Calinou no need to get one from them 21:04 Calinou @Warr1024 In France, we have many hosts that operate as nonprofits and are able to provide such low prices as well 21:04 Calinou support staffers are usually not paid, they just do it as a hobby 21:04 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> Yeah, selling TLS certs for money this day and age ... :-/ 21:04 Calinou https://pulseheberg.com/ is an example of this 21:04 Calinou (they only speak French, though) 21:04 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> Oof, language barrier is harsh 21:04 Calinou it probably helps decrease their support burden :) 21:05 Calinou I'm French so it's no problem for me 21:05 jluc ah c'est chouette ça aussi calinou 21:05 jluc :-) 21:05 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> When I bought the Contabo server, I got everything bare minimum. On the flip side, I know how to manage the whole system myself, so for anyone looking for MT hosting who doesn't do all that stuff, it may be a bit more difficult to keep prices down. 21:06 jluc but i read its for students only calinou 21:06 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> I haven't used minecity.online myself, but I see them interacting with the community quite a bit. It's much pricier at like $15 USD per month or something, but they also provide good minetest-specific support. 21:06 Calinou jluc: no, they have offers for everyone 21:06 Calinou student offers are only for shared hosting so you can get a better price 21:07 jluc i see 21:07 jluc that's an alternative to ovh 21:07 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> Everyone should be a lifelong student anyway :-) 21:08 jluc sure ! but this doesnt require/provide an official student card 21:09 Calinou I'm no longer a student :'( 21:09 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> You're always SOME kind of student as long as you're learning :-D 21:09 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> Can I home-school myself for grad school and print myself a student ID...? 21:10 Calinou usually, online university isn't accepted in student deals 21:10 Calinou but it depends on the deal in question, there's no real standard 21:10 Calinou some deals will require inputting an university email address, others will require you to send a PDF scan of some document (which isn't always verified manually!) 21:10 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> Makes sense, they have to draw a line somewhere or else their student offer is just an everyone offer. 21:11 Calinou I remember getting a student offer for Allegorithmic software, you get it instantly, which leads me to think the verification process was either automatic or completely absent 21:11 Calinou (that was in 2016 and 2017) 21:12 Calinou I had to send a PDF of my registration certificate for that one 21:14 specing Oh 21:14 specing Contabo isn't even that cheap 21:16 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> I havent seen anything cheaper? At least not for those specs 21:46 specing Yes, what I meant was that they are not that much cheaper than other similar hosters 21:46 specing disk space is very high, but that's about it 22:23 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Still gotta reccomend genesishosting. They have great linux vps at around $3-5/mo depending on your server ram needs, and offer up to 25% discount when you get like 1-2 years paid up front. 22:27 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> You can get more cores, comprable memory, and triple the storage for a fraction of the price at contabo 23:14 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> With student discounts sure? 23:15 MTDiscord <05e​xe_virus> Storage doesn't really matter for 99% of servers. Comparable memory would be impressive if that's for the public. Especially when combined with more cores... 23:22 fattywompus Hello minetesters... so if you were to get a VPS is there any kind of remote desktop option to manage it? Or is it strictly SSH in terminal? That seems like it would make things a lot easier for the uninitiated 23:25 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> @exe_virus What student discounts? 23:26 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> For public use contabo provides six cores, 20GB RAM, 1400GB storage, 1000mbps for $15USD/mo 23:43 FrostRanger[m] exe_virus: I would have to disagree that storage generally doesn't matter much, map files and whatnot can get quite large 23:44 FrostRanger[m] especially if the server is quite popular