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jas_ |
hi |
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jas_ |
!server |
02:08 |
MinetestBot |
jas_: [GD]Mini Mine Games -TEST- MMG | mmg.thkv.ru:30032 | Clients: 0/20, 0/1 | Version: 5.1.0-23bd563 / mmg | Ping: 50ms |
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CraneZhou |
!server |
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MinetestBot |
CraneZhou: LinuxGaming2.com | 45.33.54.11 | Clients: 0/16, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / lggame | Ping: 153ms |
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Zughy |
Hey there, sorry for the rush. Is there a way to avoid closing a formspec but with pressing a button inside it? I can't a find a way to avoid quitting it with Esc |
08:10 |
bdju |
is there a mod that would allow watching videos in-game? like pulling up youtube on a virtual screen |
08:13 |
Zughy |
bdju: I don't think so, but a guy had Chrome running inside Minetest https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=380303&sid=e8d0056d0c3e7a0d0fd8d9551ffca07d#p380303 |
08:15 |
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08:25 |
bdju |
.tell test |
08:25 |
bdju |
is there a tell bot in here? |
08:26 |
bdju |
anyway, that thing Zughy linked is cool, but I imagine it's a bit bloated for the purpose of video playback. something like ffmpeg would maybe be enough |
08:26 |
bdju |
although a browser could be better in some ways, like showing someone searching through the videos instead of them just popping up suddenly |
08:45 |
sfan5 |
use !tell username message |
08:45 |
sfan5 |
there was a pull request with ffmpeg support for formspecs once |
09:18 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> @Zughy catch the escape from the form and reinstate it, as it's still triggers a callback event |
09:21 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> any mod that shows rules to a player will have the mechanism coded in for you to examine |
09:35 |
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arydev |
hello |
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10:44 |
MTDiscord |
<automaton> I tried installing/downloading and playing mt on windoze, after 5 years of linux... I seem to be unable to type anything... the username and password for connecting a server seem to broken... i wonder if it could have anything to do with the localizations and all, but when i checked, it was all EN-IN, which worked fine on linux... tried redownloading, but without avail... any suggestions ? |
10:49 |
specing |
go back to Linux |
10:49 |
specing |
also stop using proprietary software (discord) |
10:50 |
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10:50 |
ubone |
what was the option to lower the game res (not the window res) |
10:55 |
jas_ |
undersampling |
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11:18 |
MTDiscord |
<automaton> > go back to Linux rn that is not an option, also while open source is all well and good, i tend to choose the one that fits my needs well... |
11:27 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> first suggestion is to redownload it and reinstall, probably done that already though |
11:29 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> can you select servers, change tabs, alter setting or is it purely the text fields on the server page |
11:35 |
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11:37 |
jas_ |
hi discord |
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MTDiscord |
<automaton> hmm i am able to select servers, nut am unable to input any text |
11:51 |
MTDiscord |
<automaton> @shivajiva |
12:08 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> I suspect it will be the same in settings then, you won't be able to modify any text value, does seem input related on your system |
12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/367sv7/problems_with_keyboard_control_on_windows/ |
12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> seems related |
12:16 |
MTDiscord |
<shivajiva> Hi jas |
12:18 |
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MTDiscord |
<automaton> ty |
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13:32 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> How does Minetest map frame ranges to animations in seconds? |
13:33 |
sfan5 |
huh? |
13:33 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Minetest frame ranges are obviously not in seconds |
13:33 |
rubenwardy |
using animation speeds and counts |
13:33 |
rubenwardy |
*counter |
13:34 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> ? |
13:34 |
rubenwardy |
also, doesn't Irrlicht handle model animations? |
13:34 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> How can I determine the current keyframe from range, frame_speed, frame_blend and frame_loop |
13:35 |
sfan5 |
range_min |
13:35 |
sfan5 |
oops |
13:35 |
sfan5 |
range_min + ((time / frame_speed) % (range_max - range_min)) probably |
13:35 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> range.x = min and range.y = max I assume |
13:35 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Yeah but range_min is not in seconds :/ |
13:36 |
sfan5 |
why would it be in seconds? |
13:36 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Because glTF stores animation keyframes in seconds |
13:36 |
rubenwardy |
it's in frames, that equation returns frames |
13:36 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> in keyframes? |
13:37 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> hmm, that makes it quite simple |
13:37 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> thank you |
13:37 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> zero-based or one-based? |
13:38 |
rubenwardy |
don't think it matters? |
13:38 |
rubenwardy |
range_min will be different then |
13:38 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> well it matters because Lua lists are one-based |
13:38 |
rubenwardy |
you can use the same equation either way. Just look at whether models themselves are 1 or 0 indexed |
13:46 |
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16:59 |
SoylentCow |
Draft:Minetest was in worse shape than i imagined lol |
16:59 |
SoylentCow |
but now i removed all the junk refs, which is what was holding it up, the best i can tell |
16:59 |
SoylentCow |
but it would be nice to find more notability hits |
17:01 |
SoylentCow |
i doubt there's much more quality stuff in english or russian (still looking), but ain't there some reviews or art criticism in other languages?i hear minetest is big in europe too |
17:02 |
SoylentCow |
i presume there are links from other language wikipedias, but i would not want to use them without knowing very well what the sources say |
17:09 |
rubenwardy |
SoylentCow: why did you remove the CERN ref? It's a pretty significant one |
17:10 |
rubenwardy |
The largest particle physics lab in the world is significant |
17:10 |
rubenwardy |
https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/craft-web-re-enact-invention-web |
17:11 |
Krock |
rubenwardy: when is CTW finally done?? |
17:11 |
rubenwardy |
same question for you |
17:11 |
MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Player_api: Various maintenance (#2737) 8d0fb34 https://git.io/JUcS7 (2020-09-09T17:11:25Z) |
17:11 |
rubenwardy |
also, if you remove citations you should remove content |
17:11 |
Krock |
:D expected that coming |
17:12 |
rubenwardy |
You should go from reliable citations to content, not find citations for content |
17:12 |
rubenwardy |
also game -> game engine (and game) |
17:12 |
Krock |
relevant: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/citogenesis.png |
17:13 |
rubenwardy |
exactly |
17:14 |
MinetestBot |
[git] devnexen -> minetest/minetest: Add NetBSD cpu affinity support code (#10378) 0683bea https://git.io/JUcSN (2020-09-09T17:12:58Z) |
17:14 |
MinetestBot |
[git] devnexen -> minetest/minetest: Darwin platform build fix (#10376) 62913b8 https://git.io/JUcSA (2020-09-09T17:12:03Z) |
17:14 |
rubenwardy |
SoylentCow: I also can't see google CTF there any more |
17:14 |
rubenwardy |
Just remove minetest.net references, don't remove good references |
17:19 |
rubenwardy |
Krock: we should probably arrange some sprints where we arrange some weekends to do this virtually. We did well when working on-site, but any activity off-site has slipped |
17:20 |
Krock |
indeed |
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19:04 |
SoylentCow |
rubenwardy: it would never been accepted with garbage links |
19:04 |
SoylentCow |
i did the link purge based on help i got from official helper at wikipedia irc |
19:04 |
SoylentCow |
the guy actually read the article, pointed out garbage refs, and did best to explain what qulifies as good ref |
19:05 |
SoylentCow |
at any rate, we got nothing to lose, it didn't look like previous attempts had any chance of success |
19:05 |
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19:06 |
rubenwardy |
CERN is not a garbage link |
19:06 |
SoylentCow |
what we really need is a very specific kind of link: a critical review from an esteblied outfit/reviewer, or a scholarly article dealing mainly or significantly with minetest (i am not holding my breath for that one) |
19:06 |
SoylentCow |
it is not a review or a criticism, so CERN link cannot work, this is not even my judgement |
19:07 |
rubenwardy |
it's a citation that CERN is a user and created a game using it, that's pretty notable |
19:07 |
SoylentCow |
i am working very hard to have this article get past review, and this was one of the no-nos they mentioned |
19:08 |
rubenwardy |
did they specifically say that the link was a no-no? It's crazy to reject a new articles from a major organisation |
19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Wikipedia notability is bull |
19:08 |
rubenwardy |
I think we should just give up on trying to get an article, they're clearly biased against us |
19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> 100% biased and hypocritical |
19:09 |
rubenwardy |
they're at least a ton more strick |
19:09 |
rubenwardy |
*strict |
19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I can find hundreds of articles about games with 2 or less references and no content |
19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> games youve never heard of |
19:09 |
rubenwardy |
the thing is - existing articles like that is no excuse, but Minetest does have notability by their own definitions |
19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Draft:Minetest looks terrible now imo |
19:10 |
rubenwardy |
The reason I recommend cutting out all content that is not directly cited is because it's better to have a smaller well cited article than a larger one with not enough citations |
19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The thing is that 90% of it was cited |
19:11 |
rubenwardy |
a lot of .net citations |
19:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> What exactly is wrong with .net citations |
19:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> what does a site domain matter |
19:11 |
rubenwardy |
first party citations are not reliable |
19:11 |
rubenwardy |
minetest.net |
19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Oh, then say that |
19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> And there werent |
19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> When alistair and I went over it we removed all the .net citations |
19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> so if there were any, someone added them later |
19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I wish we could blacklist reviewers |
19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> If there is even a remotely clear bias, we should be allowed to request review from new reviewers |
19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> So far the same person has been rejecting every time |
19:14 |
rubenwardy |
maybe revert some of the changes and ask in #wikipedia |
19:14 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Ive pretty much given up on it |
19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The grammar and sentence structure on the draft is pitiful |
19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> there is a ton of uncited subjective information |
19:20 |
SoylentCow |
look guys, no need to fume, i got this one |
19:21 |
SoylentCow |
they said: no dev website, no wikis, nothing biased, better if professional review |
19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> And those requirements were met when it was rejected 2 times ago |
19:21 |
SoylentCow |
independent + professional is the only thing that really counts for notability |
19:22 |
SoylentCow |
no, we keep getting rejected because there were too many low-quality refs |
19:22 |
SoylentCow |
including the ones i put in recently, to git source and stuff, i removed them all now |
19:23 |
SoylentCow |
i've been told in no uncertain terms: because it was already rejected based on notability, we need to make sure we only have good refs in there, because even one bad ref can trigger a rejection at this point |
19:23 |
SoylentCow |
i do not believe the review is biased against us in any way, but i am fully prepared to deal with that if i get any evidence |
19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The references are so sparse now half the article isnt cited |
19:24 |
SoylentCow |
that does not matter, i believe, not for notability purposees |
19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> They care more about notability than they do about information citing? Thats backwards asf |
19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Wikipedia is supposed to care that the information can be cited by a second or third party, not that the second or third party is insanely notabl |
19:24 |
SoylentCow |
it's not personal, at least i have no reason to believe it is |
19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> +e |
19:25 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> watch it get rejected for lack of citations next |
19:25 |
SoylentCow |
they will not be able to jerk me around, i am keeping track of everything now, including who is reviewing, what reasons they give,and how they handle intrawiki communication |
19:26 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> If I decide to go through and fix all of the formatting and wording sometime, do you want me to mark missing citations? |
19:27 |
SoylentCow |
i don't think that's a good idea: are you trying to help to get it approved? why would you create doubt? |
19:27 |
rubenwardy |
CERN is independent and professional |
19:27 |
SoylentCow |
a news article with a mention is not a good ref |
19:27 |
SoylentCow |
i've been told |
19:27 |
rubenwardy |
CERN is independent and professional |
19:28 |
SoylentCow |
is it a review? |
19:28 |
rubenwardy |
It's a good article that cern is a user |
19:28 |
rubenwardy |
there's a users section |
19:28 |
rubenwardy |
it can go there |
19:28 |
SoylentCow |
if it's not a critical review or a scholarly article where minetest is one of the main subjects, then we cannot use it to improve notability |
19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> that is bs |
19:28 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't matter, it should still be in the article |
19:28 |
rubenwardy |
because it's relevant |
19:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> just because it isnt a review or article doesnt mean it cant be used |
19:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> information is information |
19:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> its a professional third party and thats that |
19:29 |
SoylentCow |
it is pointless to argue on this one rubenwardy: i don't actually have a strong opinion, and they would tell you, read the policy, and i think their stance is reasonale |
19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Its not a policy |
19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> no article follows that |
19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Citations do not have to be explicit review or criticism |
19:30 |
SoylentCow |
but it was made crystal clear to me by one of the official wikipedia people that we need to remove those refs |
19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It is possible they didnt know that CERN is a professional source |
19:30 |
SoylentCow |
so let's just go with that flow, and deal with issues one at at time, i told myself |
19:31 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Rubenewardy: To be fair, we can always add it after its approved |
19:31 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Rubenwardy* |
19:31 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I can type |
19:32 |
SoylentCow |
cern: just go to that page again: https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/craft-web-re-enact-invention-web |
19:32 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> An article with 10 notable sources is still notable with 10 other not notable sources |
19:33 |
SoylentCow |
it tells next to nithing about minetest |
19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It uh, doesnt need to |
19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> the point is Minetest is in use |
19:33 |
SoylentCow |
for notability, it would have to tell us about minetest quite a bit |
19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The education sources use minetest, they dont necessarily talk abou tit |
19:34 |
SoylentCow |
no, the point of notability is not "in use", that's silly, the point is there must be independent, professional descriptions of the subject |
19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The citations given for uses in education say less about Minetest than the CERN article |
19:35 |
rubenwardy |
citations are to prove facts, not the entire subject. The CERN citation proves that CERN is a user, and so should be included in that section |
19:36 |
SoylentCow |
anyways, from where i stand, you guys could really help in at least one way: find high-quality other-language things similar to this: https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2017/204/Minetest |
19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Dude ive already tried that |
19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> and I put as many as I could in there |
19:36 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> but they have been removed |
19:36 |
rubenwardy |
by "typical indications of notability like reviews or significant critical commentary." they don't mean they all need to be that |
19:37 |
SoylentCow |
rubenwardy: i understand what you are saying, but it is safer play, imho, to just axe it, at least for now, because reviewers will flag low-quality refs and we get notability rejection again |
19:37 |
rubenwardy |
ok fine |
19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> like I said, we can add the rest of the refs later |
19:37 |
rubenwardy |
remove all the uncited stuff as well, as you'll have a similar problem |
19:37 |
SoylentCow |
yes, GreenXenith, that's right |
19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> which is why I asked if I should mark it as missing citations^^ |
19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> so we know what needs removing and whatnot |
19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> or should I just nuke stuff |
19:38 |
SoylentCow |
GreenXenith: go ahead, mark them, i guess, wouldn't hurt |
19:38 |
SoylentCow |
i will review and cull as needed after that |
19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> rubenwardy: We have to get through the security checkpoint before we can add the water and hand sanitizer |
19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Feels backwards hypocritical unorganized and biased, but thats what you get to deal with in systems like this |
19:39 |
SoylentCow |
GreenXenith: that link i posted, please check it out. it's nothing like refs i removed. it's a full-length professional critical review of the game in a printed journal. this is the quality we should be aiming for. |
19:40 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> You wont find many like it |
19:40 |
SoylentCow |
yeah, it's hard, i wasn't able to match it yet |
19:41 |
rubenwardy |
I find it frustrating that you need to make the article worse to jump through hoops |
19:41 |
SoylentCow |
i share that frustration |
19:41 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Yep |
19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It's entirely possible the system was built for articles that are much smaller than this one and arent as widespread yet |
19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Which seems silly, but its a plausible reason |
19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> That or people have been working around the stupid system the whole time and you just never notice |
19:43 |
SoylentCow |
what happened is very unfortunate. did it like get deleted at some point? |
19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It did |
19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> But that was a very reasonable AfD |
19:44 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, there was a super terrible article in ~2012 |
19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Now that the game is 10 years old and has some notability, they probably wont be able to AfD it again |
19:47 |
SoylentCow |
yeah, so that's the unfortunate thing; now we really have to jump through organizational hoops, and i would blame anyone in particular, like wikpedia, reviewers, or the people who penned the terrible first version |
19:47 |
Krock |
AfD, the german politics party? |
19:47 |
Krock |
or do you mean something else? |
19:48 |
SoylentCow |
i found this cool link on russian minetest page: https://trashbox.ru/topics/110202/5-prichin-pochemu-besplatnyj-minetest-luchshe-minecraft |
19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Articles for Deletion |
19:48 |
SoylentCow |
looks like a medium-length review of features by commercial website |
19:48 |
SoylentCow |
actually has a lot of things specifically mentioned about techical details |
19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> So really the big problem is that people were dumb and tried to make an article way too soon and caused problems for us 8 yeras later |
19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> years* |
19:49 |
SoylentCow |
and i know what you mean, how it's a load of bullshit, i mean, russian minetest page has this one reference of quality, plus a bunch of links to minetest wiki, and that's all |
19:49 |
Krock |
people with an IQ above room temperature would notice that old reviews might not be that accurate any more |
19:50 |
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19:50 |
SoylentCow |
what we have in Draft:Minetest is already waaaay better referenced |
19:50 |
SoylentCow |
notability and some |
19:50 |
SoylentCow |
so i think we are moving in the right direction |
19:51 |
SoylentCow |
hahahaha |
19:51 |
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19:51 |
SoylentCow |
i meant before, i would NOT blame anyone in particular |
19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> A lot of Wikipedia reviewers probably live an a heavily air-conditioned basement, so room temperature may varry ;] |
19:53 |
SoylentCow |
ok i am gonna jet, if you people dig up the reviews like these ones, just stick them into Draft or the talk page directly, and i'll take it from there |
19:55 |
Krock |
interesting screenshots. would be cool to re-use them on the german page as well := |
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20:07 |
Krock |
I'd be really surprised if there's ever an English Wikipedia article about Minetest. Less notable projects have their own articles. Not acknowledging the work of a thousand people indicates a form of brigading to me |
20:07 |
Krock |
s/people/contributors/ |
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21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Lemente> Hey, I see you were talking about the wiki page! This year, if everything goes well, some schools in Paris will start using Minetest with the BIM (Building Information Modeling) as the subject, as well as the Olympic village. Maybe this will create some interesting references (especially since the project was created by the Centre Pompidou). I might also use Minetest for a small project in the Musée de Bretagne in Rennes. It |
21:09 |
MTDiscord |
will be about the great fire of 1720. We are thinking about making people download and play Minetest on their own phones (so they don't have to touch anything, don't have to get too close to each other). |
21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Lemente> (don't hesitate to tag me even through IRC, @Lemente #3363 or even <@175278627796156416> should work) |
21:11 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3363 -- Support nested modpacks in mainmenu |
21:15 |
esperantoman |
https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minetest |
21:15 |
esperantoman |
;) |
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