Time Nick Message 01:02 jas_ hi 02:08 jas_ !server 02:08 MinetestBot jas_: [GD]Mini Mine Games -TEST- MMG | mmg.thkv.ru:30032 | Clients: 0/20, 0/1 | Version: 5.1.0-23bd563 / mmg | Ping: 50ms 07:31 CraneZhou !server 07:31 MinetestBot CraneZhou: LinuxGaming2.com | 45.33.54.11 | Clients: 0/16, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / lggame | Ping: 153ms 08:02 Zughy Hey there, sorry for the rush. Is there a way to avoid closing a formspec but with pressing a button inside it? I can't a find a way to avoid quitting it with Esc 08:10 bdju is there a mod that would allow watching videos in-game? like pulling up youtube on a virtual screen 08:13 Zughy bdju: I don't think so, but a guy had Chrome running inside Minetest https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=380303&sid=e8d0056d0c3e7a0d0fd8d9551ffca07d#p380303 08:25 bdju .tell test 08:25 bdju is there a tell bot in here? 08:26 bdju anyway, that thing Zughy linked is cool, but I imagine it's a bit bloated for the purpose of video playback. something like ffmpeg would maybe be enough 08:26 bdju although a browser could be better in some ways, like showing someone searching through the videos instead of them just popping up suddenly 08:45 sfan5 use !tell username message 08:45 sfan5 there was a pull request with ffmpeg support for formspecs once 09:18 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> @Zughy catch the escape from the form and reinstate it, as it's still triggers a callback event 09:21 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> any mod that shows rules to a player will have the mechanism coded in for you to examine 09:35 arydev hello 10:44 MTDiscord <11a​utomaton> I tried installing/downloading and playing mt on windoze, after 5 years of linux... I seem to be unable to type anything... the username and password for connecting a server seem to broken... i wonder if it could have anything to do with the localizations and all, but when i checked, it was all EN-IN, which worked fine on linux... tried redownloading, but without avail... any suggestions ? 10:49 specing go back to Linux 10:49 specing also stop using proprietary software (discord) 10:50 ubone what was the option to lower the game res (not the window res) 10:55 jas_ undersampling 11:18 MTDiscord <11a​utomaton> > go back to Linux rn that is not an option, also while open source is all well and good, i tend to choose the one that fits my needs well... 11:27 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> first suggestion is to redownload it and reinstall, probably done that already though 11:29 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> can you select servers, change tabs, alter setting or is it purely the text fields on the server page 11:37 jas_ hi discord 11:51 MTDiscord <11a​utomaton> hmm i am able to select servers, nut am unable to input any text 11:51 MTDiscord <11a​utomaton> @shivajiva 12:08 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> I suspect it will be the same in settings then, you won't be able to modify any text value, does seem input related on your system 12:10 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/367sv7/problems_with_keyboard_control_on_windows/ 12:10 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> seems related 12:16 MTDiscord <03s​hivajiva> Hi jas 12:30 MTDiscord <11a​utomaton> ty 13:32 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> How does Minetest map frame ranges to animations in seconds? 13:33 sfan5 huh? 13:33 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> Minetest frame ranges are obviously not in seconds 13:33 rubenwardy using animation speeds and counts 13:33 rubenwardy *counter 13:34 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> ? 13:34 rubenwardy also, doesn't Irrlicht handle model animations? 13:34 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> How can I determine the current keyframe from range, frame_speed, frame_blend and frame_loop 13:35 sfan5 range_min 13:35 sfan5 oops 13:35 sfan5 range_min + ((time / frame_speed) % (range_max - range_min)) probably 13:35 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> range.x = min and range.y = max I assume 13:35 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> Yeah but range_min is not in seconds :/ 13:36 sfan5 why would it be in seconds? 13:36 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> Because glTF stores animation keyframes in seconds 13:36 rubenwardy it's in frames, that equation returns frames 13:36 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> in keyframes? 13:37 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> hmm, that makes it quite simple 13:37 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> thank you 13:37 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> zero-based or one-based? 13:38 rubenwardy don't think it matters? 13:38 rubenwardy range_min will be different then 13:38 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> well it matters because Lua lists are one-based 13:38 rubenwardy you can use the same equation either way. Just look at whether models themselves are 1 or 0 indexed 16:59 SoylentCow Draft:Minetest was in worse shape than i imagined lol 16:59 SoylentCow but now i removed all the junk refs, which is what was holding it up, the best i can tell 16:59 SoylentCow but it would be nice to find more notability hits 17:01 SoylentCow i doubt there's much more quality stuff in english or russian (still looking), but ain't there some reviews or art criticism in other languages?i hear minetest is big in europe too 17:02 SoylentCow i presume there are links from other language wikipedias, but i would not want to use them without knowing very well what the sources say 17:09 rubenwardy SoylentCow: why did you remove the CERN ref? It's a pretty significant one 17:10 rubenwardy The largest particle physics lab in the world is significant 17:10 rubenwardy https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/craft-web-re-enact-invention-web 17:11 Krock rubenwardy: when is CTW finally done?? 17:11 rubenwardy same question for you 17:11 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Player_api: Various maintenance (#2737) 138d0fb34 https://git.io/JUcS7 (152020-09-09T17:11:25Z) 17:11 rubenwardy also, if you remove citations you should remove content 17:11 Krock :D expected that coming 17:12 rubenwardy You should go from reliable citations to content, not find citations for content 17:12 rubenwardy also game -> game engine (and game) 17:12 Krock relevant: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/citogenesis.png 17:13 rubenwardy exactly 17:14 MinetestBot 02[git] 04devnexen -> 03minetest/minetest: Add NetBSD cpu affinity support code (#10378) 130683bea https://git.io/JUcSN (152020-09-09T17:12:58Z) 17:14 MinetestBot 02[git] 04devnexen -> 03minetest/minetest: Darwin platform build fix (#10376) 1362913b8 https://git.io/JUcSA (152020-09-09T17:12:03Z) 17:14 rubenwardy SoylentCow: I also can't see google CTF there any more 17:14 rubenwardy Just remove minetest.net references, don't remove good references 17:19 rubenwardy Krock: we should probably arrange some sprints where we arrange some weekends to do this virtually. We did well when working on-site, but any activity off-site has slipped 17:20 Krock indeed 19:04 SoylentCow rubenwardy: it would never been accepted with garbage links 19:04 SoylentCow i did the link purge based on help i got from official helper at wikipedia irc 19:04 SoylentCow the guy actually read the article, pointed out garbage refs, and did best to explain what qulifies as good ref 19:05 SoylentCow at any rate, we got nothing to lose, it didn't look like previous attempts had any chance of success 19:06 rubenwardy CERN is not a garbage link 19:06 SoylentCow what we really need is a very specific kind of link: a critical review from an esteblied outfit/reviewer, or a scholarly article dealing mainly or significantly with minetest (i am not holding my breath for that one) 19:06 SoylentCow it is not a review or a criticism, so CERN link cannot work, this is not even my judgement 19:07 rubenwardy it's a citation that CERN is a user and created a game using it, that's pretty notable 19:07 SoylentCow i am working very hard to have this article get past review, and this was one of the no-nos they mentioned 19:08 rubenwardy did they specifically say that the link was a no-no? It's crazy to reject a new articles from a major organisation 19:08 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Wikipedia notability is bull 19:08 rubenwardy I think we should just give up on trying to get an article, they're clearly biased against us 19:09 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> 100% biased and hypocritical 19:09 rubenwardy they're at least a ton more strick 19:09 rubenwardy *strict 19:09 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> I can find hundreds of articles about games with 2 or less references and no content 19:09 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> games youve never heard of 19:09 rubenwardy the thing is - existing articles like that is no excuse, but Minetest does have notability by their own definitions 19:10 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Draft:Minetest looks terrible now imo 19:10 rubenwardy The reason I recommend cutting out all content that is not directly cited is because it's better to have a smaller well cited article than a larger one with not enough citations 19:10 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> The thing is that 90% of it was cited 19:11 rubenwardy a lot of .net citations 19:11 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> What exactly is wrong with .net citations 19:11 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> what does a site domain matter 19:11 rubenwardy first party citations are not reliable 19:11 rubenwardy minetest.net 19:12 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Oh, then say that 19:12 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> And there werent 19:12 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> When alistair and I went over it we removed all the .net citations 19:12 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> so if there were any, someone added them later 19:12 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> I wish we could blacklist reviewers 19:13 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> If there is even a remotely clear bias, we should be allowed to request review from new reviewers 19:13 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> So far the same person has been rejecting every time 19:14 rubenwardy maybe revert some of the changes and ask in #wikipedia 19:14 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Ive pretty much given up on it 19:15 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> The grammar and sentence structure on the draft is pitiful 19:15 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> there is a ton of uncited subjective information 19:20 SoylentCow look guys, no need to fume, i got this one 19:21 SoylentCow they said: no dev website, no wikis, nothing biased, better if professional review 19:21 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> And those requirements were met when it was rejected 2 times ago 19:21 SoylentCow independent + professional is the only thing that really counts for notability 19:22 SoylentCow no, we keep getting rejected because there were too many low-quality refs 19:22 SoylentCow including the ones i put in recently, to git source and stuff, i removed them all now 19:23 SoylentCow i've been told in no uncertain terms: because it was already rejected based on notability, we need to make sure we only have good refs in there, because even one bad ref can trigger a rejection at this point 19:23 SoylentCow i do not believe the review is biased against us in any way, but i am fully prepared to deal with that if i get any evidence 19:23 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> The references are so sparse now half the article isnt cited 19:24 SoylentCow that does not matter, i believe, not for notability purposees 19:24 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> They care more about notability than they do about information citing? Thats backwards asf 19:24 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Wikipedia is supposed to care that the information can be cited by a second or third party, not that the second or third party is insanely notabl 19:24 SoylentCow it's not personal, at least i have no reason to believe it is 19:24 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> +e 19:25 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> watch it get rejected for lack of citations next 19:25 SoylentCow they will not be able to jerk me around, i am keeping track of everything now, including who is reviewing, what reasons they give,and how they handle intrawiki communication 19:26 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> If I decide to go through and fix all of the formatting and wording sometime, do you want me to mark missing citations? 19:27 SoylentCow i don't think that's a good idea: are you trying to help to get it approved? why would you create doubt? 19:27 rubenwardy CERN is independent and professional 19:27 SoylentCow a news article with a mention is not a good ref 19:27 SoylentCow i've been told 19:27 rubenwardy CERN is independent and professional 19:28 SoylentCow is it a review? 19:28 rubenwardy It's a good article that cern is a user 19:28 rubenwardy there's a users section 19:28 rubenwardy it can go there 19:28 SoylentCow if it's not a critical review or a scholarly article where minetest is one of the main subjects, then we cannot use it to improve notability 19:28 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> that is bs 19:28 rubenwardy doesn't matter, it should still be in the article 19:28 rubenwardy because it's relevant 19:29 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> just because it isnt a review or article doesnt mean it cant be used 19:29 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> information is information 19:29 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> its a professional third party and thats that 19:29 SoylentCow it is pointless to argue on this one rubenwardy: i don't actually have a strong opinion, and they would tell you, read the policy, and i think their stance is reasonale 19:30 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Its not a policy 19:30 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> no article follows that 19:30 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Citations do not have to be explicit review or criticism 19:30 SoylentCow but it was made crystal clear to me by one of the official wikipedia people that we need to remove those refs 19:30 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> It is possible they didnt know that CERN is a professional source 19:30 SoylentCow so let's just go with that flow, and deal with issues one at at time, i told myself 19:31 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Rubenewardy: To be fair, we can always add it after its approved 19:31 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Rubenwardy* 19:31 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> I can type 19:32 SoylentCow cern: just go to that page again: https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/craft-web-re-enact-invention-web 19:32 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> An article with 10 notable sources is still notable with 10 other not notable sources 19:33 SoylentCow it tells next to nithing about minetest 19:33 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> It uh, doesnt need to 19:33 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> the point is Minetest is in use 19:33 SoylentCow for notability, it would have to tell us about minetest quite a bit 19:33 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> The education sources use minetest, they dont necessarily talk abou tit 19:34 SoylentCow no, the point of notability is not "in use", that's silly, the point is there must be independent, professional descriptions of the subject 19:34 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> The citations given for uses in education say less about Minetest than the CERN article 19:35 rubenwardy citations are to prove facts, not the entire subject. The CERN citation proves that CERN is a user, and so should be included in that section 19:36 SoylentCow anyways, from where i stand, you guys could really help in at least one way: find high-quality other-language things similar to this: https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2017/204/Minetest 19:36 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Dude ive already tried that 19:36 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> and I put as many as I could in there 19:36 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> but they have been removed 19:36 rubenwardy by "typical indications of notability like reviews or significant critical commentary." they don't mean they all need to be that 19:37 SoylentCow rubenwardy: i understand what you are saying, but it is safer play, imho, to just axe it, at least for now, because reviewers will flag low-quality refs and we get notability rejection again 19:37 rubenwardy ok fine 19:37 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> like I said, we can add the rest of the refs later 19:37 rubenwardy remove all the uncited stuff as well, as you'll have a similar problem 19:37 SoylentCow yes, GreenXenith, that's right 19:37 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> which is why I asked if I should mark it as missing citations^^ 19:37 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> so we know what needs removing and whatnot 19:37 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> or should I just nuke stuff 19:38 SoylentCow GreenXenith: go ahead, mark them, i guess, wouldn't hurt 19:38 SoylentCow i will review and cull as needed after that 19:38 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> rubenwardy: We have to get through the security checkpoint before we can add the water and hand sanitizer 19:39 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Feels backwards hypocritical unorganized and biased, but thats what you get to deal with in systems like this 19:39 SoylentCow GreenXenith: that link i posted, please check it out. it's nothing like refs i removed. it's a full-length professional critical review of the game in a printed journal. this is the quality we should be aiming for. 19:40 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> You wont find many like it 19:40 SoylentCow yeah, it's hard, i wasn't able to match it yet 19:41 rubenwardy I find it frustrating that you need to make the article worse to jump through hoops 19:41 SoylentCow i share that frustration 19:41 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Yep 19:42 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> It's entirely possible the system was built for articles that are much smaller than this one and arent as widespread yet 19:42 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Which seems silly, but its a plausible reason 19:43 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> That or people have been working around the stupid system the whole time and you just never notice 19:43 SoylentCow what happened is very unfortunate. did it like get deleted at some point? 19:44 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> It did 19:44 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> But that was a very reasonable AfD 19:44 rubenwardy yeah, there was a super terrible article in ~2012 19:45 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Now that the game is 10 years old and has some notability, they probably wont be able to AfD it again 19:47 SoylentCow yeah, so that's the unfortunate thing; now we really have to jump through organizational hoops, and i would blame anyone in particular, like wikpedia, reviewers, or the people who penned the terrible first version 19:47 Krock AfD, the german politics party? 19:47 Krock or do you mean something else? 19:48 SoylentCow i found this cool link on russian minetest page: https://trashbox.ru/topics/110202/5-prichin-pochemu-besplatnyj-minetest-luchshe-minecraft 19:48 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> Articles for Deletion 19:48 SoylentCow looks like a medium-length review of features by commercial website 19:48 SoylentCow actually has a lot of things specifically mentioned about techical details 19:49 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> So really the big problem is that people were dumb and tried to make an article way too soon and caused problems for us 8 yeras later 19:49 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> years* 19:49 SoylentCow and i know what you mean, how it's a load of bullshit, i mean, russian minetest page has this one reference of quality, plus a bunch of links to minetest wiki, and that's all 19:49 Krock people with an IQ above room temperature would notice that old reviews might not be that accurate any more 19:50 SoylentCow what we have in Draft:Minetest is already waaaay better referenced 19:50 SoylentCow notability and some 19:50 SoylentCow so i think we are moving in the right direction 19:51 SoylentCow hahahaha 19:51 SoylentCow i meant before, i would NOT blame anyone in particular 19:52 MTDiscord <11G​reenXenith> A lot of Wikipedia reviewers probably live an a heavily air-conditioned basement, so room temperature may varry ;] 19:53 SoylentCow ok i am gonna jet, if you people dig up the reviews like these ones, just stick them into Draft or the talk page directly, and i'll take it from there 19:55 Krock interesting screenshots. would be cool to re-use them on the german page as well := 20:07 Krock I'd be really surprised if there's ever an English Wikipedia article about Minetest. Less notable projects have their own articles. Not acknowledging the work of a thousand people indicates a form of brigading to me 20:07 Krock s/people/contributors/ 21:09 MTDiscord <12L​emente> Hey, I see you were talking about the wiki page! This year, if everything goes well, some schools in Paris will start using Minetest with the BIM (Building Information Modeling) as the subject, as well as the Olympic village. Maybe this will create some interesting references (especially since the project was created by the Centre Pompidou). I might also use Minetest for a small project in the Musée de Bretagne in Rennes. It 21:09 MTDiscord will be about the great fire of 1720. We are thinking about making people download and play Minetest on their own phones (so they don't have to touch anything, don't have to get too close to each other). 21:11 MTDiscord <12L​emente> (don't hesitate to tag me even through IRC, @Lemente #3363 or even <@175278627796156416> should work) 21:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3363 -- Support nested modpacks in mainmenu 21:15 esperantoman https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minetest 21:15 esperantoman ;)