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IRC log for #minetest, 2019-09-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 wowaname i like playing with choice. anarchy already gives choice to me (no need to obey arbitrary rules, i can grief if i want, i can build if i want, i can spam in chat and be a dick or i can mute chat and play in silence)
00:00 wowaname lol calcul0n
00:01 wowaname kurtzmusch: how much was the map reduced btw, so i can get an idea
00:01 wowaname one twitch streamer's mc server i played on for a bit, that was like 35k all directions i think
00:02 wowaname and i can't gauge how good that is because now nobody plays on it :p
00:02 kurtzmusch i dont quite remeber but i think it went from 32k radiues to 8k radius
00:02 kurtzmusch 32k is the maximum limit
00:03 wowaname oh damn, what was the player range
00:03 wowaname currently i play on a ~100 concurrent player server
00:03 kurtzmusch exploring the entire world wouldnt fit in a hard drive
00:03 kurtzmusch what do you mean player range ?
00:03 wowaname and of course 2b2t is too huge to handle the amount of players it gets, i think theres 100 actually on but it can go up to 1000 in queue
00:03 galaxie wowaname: Somehow I'm imagining a Tower of Babel to utilize all that vertical space..
00:04 wowaname like how many players online on average
00:04 kurtzmusch oh, soemthing like 10
00:04 kurtzmusch or less
00:05 kurtzmusch another reason why mc worlds dont need so much size: there arent many players lol
00:05 wowaname i forget 2b's world size but i think it's in the terabytes range now. there are a few ideas going around about managing the map (for example delta, throwing away chunks that havent been modified, etc) that could improve disk usage, but i think thats a concern for later, i dont think it'd block the desire to raise the map size limit
00:05 kurtzmusch throwing away unmodified chunks is something that fixes the problem
00:05 wowaname kurtzmusch: eh i would say that there arent many players because it's difficult as hell for minecraft to handle it, not the other way around. i believe more people would play on a server if it could support more players
00:06 kurtzmusch 98% of the space was generated for travel probably
00:06 wowaname not true for everyone of course, but for those people they can set the map to 64k and call it a day
00:06 wowaname 64k could be *default* and people like me could go all out
00:06 calcul0n thing is we have a hash system to store positions in 3x16 bits
00:07 wowaname and of course theres problems with throwing away chunks, but again i believe thats a later, case-by-case issue. biggest issue i see is modifying the chunk gen on an existing map
00:07 calcul0n so i don't think we can make maps bigger than 64k without breakingall existing mods
00:07 wowaname youll have countless "chunk errors" and discontinuities with that, but some people might be able to make that tradeoff
00:08 wowaname yeah im aware this would be a huge undertaking, i think a lot of people see that
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00:09 wowaname i saw there was a branch on the git repository that hacked in the larger map size, maybe if theres enough incentive to improve upon that branch independently (of course merging in from master as well so as not to stray too far from master dev) then i could even help out with that
00:09 wowaname seeing that i do want to develop on *something* related to my beloved virtual lego game, so if i could do that with minetest and just forget about cuberite, i would, granted enough free time
00:12 kurtzmusch i meant that minetest doesnt nedd size because it doesnt have players, my bad
00:13 wowaname well thats just a catch 22 then
00:13 wowaname room for expansion should be considered
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00:14 wowaname i like minetest's commitment to FOSS, i like its resource use (10x smaller than fucking minecraft client, and runs at 60fps on my igpu), i like its modularity
00:14 kurtzmusch it has pros an cons
00:14 wowaname i hear complaints about the modding engine not being up to par with what modders expect, and as such, some devs get demotivated by that + lack of players and just quit dealing with minetest
00:15 wowaname but, if minetest gains more traction, i see that changing
00:15 wowaname correct me if im wrong but i think the only reason mc modding picked up was because its userbase was both stubborn and large
00:15 wowaname s/was/is/
00:16 wowaname same reason you see nintendo homebrewing so quickly, because people are dedicated to working on something that is popular
00:16 wowaname so that kind of offsets the difficulty of working with these code blobs
00:17 nepugia I don't think that more users-> more devs neccesarily
00:17 kurtzmusch the problem is that changes on the engine take forever to come out due to lack of core devs time
00:17 wowaname nah im just saying theres more incentive for new potential devs to hack onto something with more users
00:17 nepugia devs hack because it is fun
00:17 nepugia not neccesarily to please users, that is if anything a bonus
00:17 wowaname yeah i understand that, this is entirely a free project
00:17 nepugia and annoying users can be a huge reason to /not/ develop
00:18 wowaname well for multiplayer stuff i would also "please users" because i want my friends and other people to play on the stuff i made, right?
00:18 nepugia I would rather make something i can be proud of, rather than something that abides by everyones silly requests :)
00:18 kurtzmusch now, the issue of the world size isnt a matter of time, its a matter of maintaining compatibility+ having other priorities
00:18 wowaname oh no i agree fully
00:19 wowaname im saying passion projects can come out if they can be appreciated
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00:19 wowaname i ignore all the idiots telling me what to do with my own code
00:19 wowaname unless theyre actual bugs i would have fixed anyway lol
00:19 kurtzmusch if i understand correlty there was already some drama around releas 5.00 that borke compatibility
00:20 nepugia wasn't there also drama aboout it beeing called 5.0? :P
00:20 wowaname i think if i had a "purpose" for coming in here with this rant (other than getting it off my chest) i'd say im trying to weigh where my efforts would be more beneficial: minetest or cuberite. theyre both foss but one just has compatibility with a better client ;p
00:21 nepugia what is cuberite?
00:21 wowaname cxx mc server
00:21 nepugia i know many foss "mc-like" games
00:21 wowaname supports feature parity up to 1.12
00:21 nepugia a C++ minecraft compatible server?
00:21 wowaname yes
00:21 nepugia I know a rust minecraft compatible client
00:21 kurtzmusch lol
00:21 wowaname oh cool
00:22 nepugia Although that might just have been singleplayer maybe
00:22 wowaname people taking the rewrite-in-rust meme way too seriously
00:22 kurtzmusch there we go client+server that is not mojangs lol
00:22 wowaname there's this proof of concept C/opengl client i saw on github a while ago, simply called "craft", it has its own client/server protocol but if i was looking to replace the mc client i'd probably base off that
00:22 nepugia Well, i don't see why one would keep compat with mc in any way
00:23 kurtzmusch imagine trying to hit that moving target that is minecraft...
00:23 nepugia The architecture that Garry's mod has for mods is what i would try to get
00:23 wowaname i think the one big issue with piggybacking on mc's protocol is the fact you still gotta pay for an account
00:23 wowaname and connect out to mojang's auth servers
00:23 wowaname either that or deal with some stupid hacked-on auth plugin in your server
00:23 kurtzmusch not necessarily
00:24 kurtzmusch there could be unlisted servers
00:24 wowaname which, to be fair it wouldnt be much different from what minetest does. accounts there are per-server
00:24 nepugia Well, I don't see a point in that
00:24 nepugia Better improve mt i guess
00:24 wowaname what do you mean unlisted, like not public?
00:24 kurtzmusch exactly
00:25 wowaname ehh, but what if you want it public lol
00:25 kurtzmusch well, its a server, but its name isnt on the list due to not paying mojang to be listed
00:25 wowaname if it was just a few friends that we could trust not to get into each other's stuff, then it'd be fine
00:25 kurtzmusch by exatcly i meant: better improve minetest
00:25 wowaname ah
00:26 kurtzmusch the server is public, just unlisted
00:26 kurtzmusch an foss master-server could be easily done too
00:26 wowaname my point is if its in any way public then what if someone somewhere along the line invites a dick who wants to loot the stuff from everyone else's inventories
00:27 kurtzmusch whut?
00:28 kurtzmusch loot from inventory?
00:28 wowaname was your "not necessarily" comment not in response to my "you need per-server accounts if you dont buy a mojang account"
00:34 kurtzmusch when i wrote my voxel engine in java the voxel resolutution was much higher so i had to make it gigantic, i remember that i had to use more than one interger to describe each dimension and i also remember having to render everythuing near the origin of the world because far away from 0, 0, 0 the floating point looses precision so the meshes start to warp and everythings looks distorted
00:34 wowaname in any case i'll stalk the minetest bug list and overall development for a while and see what people want/need vs what is already in place
00:34 kurtzmusch its not easy, but very doable
00:34 wowaname yeah floating point is a nightmare to deal with
00:36 kurtzmusch not necessarily that you need an acount, having per-server acount would be the solution
00:36 kurtzmusch mojang account
00:36 wowaname oh thats what you meant
00:37 wowaname there must be relay lag between freenode and matrix (i wouldnt be surprised) so i thought you were replying to "no you wouldnt need per-server accts"
00:37 kurtzmusch mt uses per server account
00:38 kurtzmusch and i think you could even monetyze it
00:38 kurtzmusch not sure though
00:38 nepugia wowaname, matrix.org?
00:40 wowaname self-hosted, but the matrix-appservice-irc bridge itself is probably overloaded
00:41 wowaname yeah i'd never use matrix.org as my homeserver lol, i dont think theyre tor-friendly either. i know riot.im isnt, so i needed to put the web files on my server too and access the client like that
00:41 wowaname desktop clients still arent too usable, theres nheko but its weird about encryption
00:44 * galaxie thinks people should just stick to IRC
00:45 wowaname i've only started using matrix because i needed some way to bridge to discord channels
00:45 wowaname i hate all the chat platforms i use
00:45 wowaname i just gave up and use what other people use
00:45 galaxie wowaname: How's that work now?
00:45 wowaname but i *cannot* use discord nowadays so i had to work around that
00:45 wowaname so here i am
00:45 wowaname the discord relay?
00:46 wowaname bot sits on discord guild, bot joins matrix room, you do a command on both sides and it links up a channel
00:46 wowaname for every additional channel on the discord guild, you need a new matrix channel
00:49 kurtzmusch personaly, i think that if the engine could warp the world, that would be much cooler than just beeing larger
00:54 wowaname in its own way it'd be cool, yeah
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02:35 sinisterporpiose hey guys -- i'be een having a problem with  a server setup. Debian 9, A2 Hosting. I've got the server up and running but it seems that no mobs will spawn.
02:36 sinisterporpiose I've checked the world.mt file multiple times to see things are set to true
03:14 swift110-pi hey
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04:40 nepugia What could the cause of this be? ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Node name is not set or is not a string!, the call that triggers this seams to be minetest.place_node({x=x, y=y, z=z}, MOD_NAME .. ":static_strut"), which to me seams to be a string :g
04:42 nepugia (MOD_NAME is defined as local MOD_NAME = minetest.get_current_modname() , x y and z are integers and loop counters)
05:23 swift110-pi just installed minetest on a raspberry pi
05:23 BluedelaOof[m] Nice
05:24 BluedelaOof[m] Tbh, that's what I run it on most of the time
05:29 jas_ nepugia: minetest.place_node(pos, {name = "item:string"}) perhaps
05:32 nepugia jas_, indeed, that it is, thanks
05:33 nepugia (the documentation was a bit unclear what it ment with 'node')
05:40 jas_ you're welcome.  it's tripped me up many times; add_node/set_node also require that format.
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14:44 swift110-pi do you guys recommend running a minetest server from a pi 3? i might do this or might wait until i get a pi 4
14:57 nalkri I've done it on a 3 with no problems
14:57 nalkri Only a handful of users tough
15:00 aldum what did use for storage?
15:01 swift110-pi oh ok
15:02 swift110-pi how long did you run the server
15:04 nalkri I used an old usb HDD but eventually ran out of space, need to resurrect it with a bigger one
15:04 nalkri And maybe six months
15:10 swift110-pi oh ok so it was good performance then
15:10 swift110-pi no problem with scenew?
15:10 swift110-pi m
15:10 swift110-pi scenes
15:10 nalkri I don't understand the question
15:11 nalkri Not that I recall
15:16 swift110-pi ok
15:17 swift110-pi like if you built elaborate building
15:17 swift110-pi would it lag
15:20 nalkri I don't remember any problems
15:23 swift110-pi cool
15:23 swift110-pi a testimony to minetest
15:24 SAMIAMNOT what's that supposed to mean
15:25 nalkri I don't know that we were ambitious though
15:25 nalkri Still, I'll certainly try again on my 3 when I have time to configure it
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16:41 swift110-pi thats coool
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17:15 Ingar Krock: mientest is almost playable on the RPi4
17:15 Ingar *minetest :)
17:15 Krock almost?
17:16 Ingar is there a quick way to show FPS ?
17:20 Ingar a bit sluggish when looking around fast
17:21 Ingar but, besides that, far more playable than expected
17:21 sfan5 press f5
17:21 Ingar 20-30fps
17:21 Ingar shaders disabled
17:22 Krock to bad
17:23 Ingar I could probably improve things be reducing view distance
17:23 Ingar by
17:23 Krock also by disabling the stars in the sky
17:23 Krock and removing the zbuffer clear calls in wieldmesh
17:24 Krock and by using bitmap fonts rather than freetype
17:24 Krock with all that stuff done you can get a few FPS more out of it
17:24 Krock almost doubled it on my laptop starting from 8 (or so) to 12
17:25 Krock I call it the pro gamer laptop because you have to be a mastermind and see the future to play on it
17:26 Ingar the driver isn't the greatest either
17:27 Ingar I don't go above 75% CPU usage
17:27 Krock the client only uses one core
17:27 Ingar it jsut means we're GPU bound
17:28 Ingar not that I actually intend on play mt on a Pi
17:28 Krock not necessarily. it could also be that Minetest doesn't take the advanced of the 4 core CPU
17:29 Krock -d
17:29 Krock no. *advantage
17:29 Ingar as a tech test, let's say I'm impressed by both MT and the Pi :D
17:30 Ingar (I tried it earlier with HW accelleration disabled and it was horrible)
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18:34 NoctisLabs https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23412
18:35 Krock nice but can it teleport televators?
18:36 Krock only a Yes is acceptable
18:36 NoctisLabs You'll need to create a televator televator mod for that ;)
18:37 Krock insufficient mod capabilities
18:37 Krock actually you can. place them into the inventory and carry it over by yourself
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20:36 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Document node drop tool filtering by string matching as deprecated (#… 653d7b8 https://git.io/JenBi (2019-09-30T20:34:43Z)
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23:12 nepugia for minetest.dig_node(pos) what am i supposed to to do to get the item that it will drop? (i.e prevent it from dropping), for instance to put it in an container
23:17 nepugia Or is there perhaps another call that is more suited to 'dig' nodes?
23:18 nepugia (I want to get the drops of the block into an inventory, but still run the on_break hooks for the block, if any)
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