| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
wowaname |
i like playing with choice. anarchy already gives choice to me (no need to obey arbitrary rules, i can grief if i want, i can build if i want, i can spam in chat and be a dick or i can mute chat and play in silence) |
| 00:00 |
wowaname |
lol calcul0n |
| 00:01 |
wowaname |
kurtzmusch: how much was the map reduced btw, so i can get an idea |
| 00:01 |
wowaname |
one twitch streamer's mc server i played on for a bit, that was like 35k all directions i think |
| 00:02 |
wowaname |
and i can't gauge how good that is because now nobody plays on it :p |
| 00:02 |
kurtzmusch |
i dont quite remeber but i think it went from 32k radiues to 8k radius |
| 00:02 |
kurtzmusch |
32k is the maximum limit |
| 00:03 |
wowaname |
oh damn, what was the player range |
| 00:03 |
wowaname |
currently i play on a ~100 concurrent player server |
| 00:03 |
kurtzmusch |
exploring the entire world wouldnt fit in a hard drive |
| 00:03 |
kurtzmusch |
what do you mean player range ? |
| 00:03 |
wowaname |
and of course 2b2t is too huge to handle the amount of players it gets, i think theres 100 actually on but it can go up to 1000 in queue |
| 00:03 |
galaxie |
wowaname: Somehow I'm imagining a Tower of Babel to utilize all that vertical space.. |
| 00:04 |
wowaname |
like how many players online on average |
| 00:04 |
kurtzmusch |
oh, soemthing like 10 |
| 00:04 |
kurtzmusch |
or less |
| 00:05 |
kurtzmusch |
another reason why mc worlds dont need so much size: there arent many players lol |
| 00:05 |
wowaname |
i forget 2b's world size but i think it's in the terabytes range now. there are a few ideas going around about managing the map (for example delta, throwing away chunks that havent been modified, etc) that could improve disk usage, but i think thats a concern for later, i dont think it'd block the desire to raise the map size limit |
| 00:05 |
kurtzmusch |
throwing away unmodified chunks is something that fixes the problem |
| 00:05 |
wowaname |
kurtzmusch: eh i would say that there arent many players because it's difficult as hell for minecraft to handle it, not the other way around. i believe more people would play on a server if it could support more players |
| 00:06 |
kurtzmusch |
98% of the space was generated for travel probably |
| 00:06 |
wowaname |
not true for everyone of course, but for those people they can set the map to 64k and call it a day |
| 00:06 |
wowaname |
64k could be *default* and people like me could go all out |
| 00:06 |
calcul0n |
thing is we have a hash system to store positions in 3x16 bits |
| 00:07 |
wowaname |
and of course theres problems with throwing away chunks, but again i believe thats a later, case-by-case issue. biggest issue i see is modifying the chunk gen on an existing map |
| 00:07 |
calcul0n |
so i don't think we can make maps bigger than 64k without breakingall existing mods |
| 00:07 |
wowaname |
youll have countless "chunk errors" and discontinuities with that, but some people might be able to make that tradeoff |
| 00:08 |
wowaname |
yeah im aware this would be a huge undertaking, i think a lot of people see that |
| 00:08 |
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| 00:09 |
wowaname |
i saw there was a branch on the git repository that hacked in the larger map size, maybe if theres enough incentive to improve upon that branch independently (of course merging in from master as well so as not to stray too far from master dev) then i could even help out with that |
| 00:09 |
wowaname |
seeing that i do want to develop on *something* related to my beloved virtual lego game, so if i could do that with minetest and just forget about cuberite, i would, granted enough free time |
| 00:12 |
kurtzmusch |
i meant that minetest doesnt nedd size because it doesnt have players, my bad |
| 00:13 |
wowaname |
well thats just a catch 22 then |
| 00:13 |
wowaname |
room for expansion should be considered |
| 00:14 |
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| 00:14 |
wowaname |
i like minetest's commitment to FOSS, i like its resource use (10x smaller than fucking minecraft client, and runs at 60fps on my igpu), i like its modularity |
| 00:14 |
kurtzmusch |
it has pros an cons |
| 00:14 |
wowaname |
i hear complaints about the modding engine not being up to par with what modders expect, and as such, some devs get demotivated by that + lack of players and just quit dealing with minetest |
| 00:15 |
wowaname |
but, if minetest gains more traction, i see that changing |
| 00:15 |
wowaname |
correct me if im wrong but i think the only reason mc modding picked up was because its userbase was both stubborn and large |
| 00:15 |
wowaname |
s/was/is/ |
| 00:16 |
wowaname |
same reason you see nintendo homebrewing so quickly, because people are dedicated to working on something that is popular |
| 00:16 |
wowaname |
so that kind of offsets the difficulty of working with these code blobs |
| 00:17 |
nepugia |
I don't think that more users-> more devs neccesarily |
| 00:17 |
kurtzmusch |
the problem is that changes on the engine take forever to come out due to lack of core devs time |
| 00:17 |
wowaname |
nah im just saying theres more incentive for new potential devs to hack onto something with more users |
| 00:17 |
nepugia |
devs hack because it is fun |
| 00:17 |
nepugia |
not neccesarily to please users, that is if anything a bonus |
| 00:17 |
wowaname |
yeah i understand that, this is entirely a free project |
| 00:17 |
nepugia |
and annoying users can be a huge reason to /not/ develop |
| 00:18 |
wowaname |
well for multiplayer stuff i would also "please users" because i want my friends and other people to play on the stuff i made, right? |
| 00:18 |
nepugia |
I would rather make something i can be proud of, rather than something that abides by everyones silly requests :) |
| 00:18 |
kurtzmusch |
now, the issue of the world size isnt a matter of time, its a matter of maintaining compatibility+ having other priorities |
| 00:18 |
wowaname |
oh no i agree fully |
| 00:19 |
wowaname |
im saying passion projects can come out if they can be appreciated |
| 00:19 |
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| 00:19 |
wowaname |
i ignore all the idiots telling me what to do with my own code |
| 00:19 |
wowaname |
unless theyre actual bugs i would have fixed anyway lol |
| 00:19 |
kurtzmusch |
if i understand correlty there was already some drama around releas 5.00 that borke compatibility |
| 00:20 |
nepugia |
wasn't there also drama aboout it beeing called 5.0? :P |
| 00:20 |
wowaname |
i think if i had a "purpose" for coming in here with this rant (other than getting it off my chest) i'd say im trying to weigh where my efforts would be more beneficial: minetest or cuberite. theyre both foss but one just has compatibility with a better client ;p |
| 00:21 |
nepugia |
what is cuberite? |
| 00:21 |
wowaname |
cxx mc server |
| 00:21 |
nepugia |
i know many foss "mc-like" games |
| 00:21 |
wowaname |
supports feature parity up to 1.12 |
| 00:21 |
nepugia |
a C++ minecraft compatible server? |
| 00:21 |
wowaname |
yes |
| 00:21 |
nepugia |
I know a rust minecraft compatible client |
| 00:21 |
kurtzmusch |
lol |
| 00:21 |
wowaname |
oh cool |
| 00:22 |
nepugia |
Although that might just have been singleplayer maybe |
| 00:22 |
wowaname |
people taking the rewrite-in-rust meme way too seriously |
| 00:22 |
kurtzmusch |
there we go client+server that is not mojangs lol |
| 00:22 |
wowaname |
there's this proof of concept C/opengl client i saw on github a while ago, simply called "craft", it has its own client/server protocol but if i was looking to replace the mc client i'd probably base off that |
| 00:22 |
nepugia |
Well, i don't see why one would keep compat with mc in any way |
| 00:23 |
kurtzmusch |
imagine trying to hit that moving target that is minecraft... |
| 00:23 |
nepugia |
The architecture that Garry's mod has for mods is what i would try to get |
| 00:23 |
wowaname |
i think the one big issue with piggybacking on mc's protocol is the fact you still gotta pay for an account |
| 00:23 |
wowaname |
and connect out to mojang's auth servers |
| 00:23 |
wowaname |
either that or deal with some stupid hacked-on auth plugin in your server |
| 00:23 |
kurtzmusch |
not necessarily |
| 00:24 |
kurtzmusch |
there could be unlisted servers |
| 00:24 |
wowaname |
which, to be fair it wouldnt be much different from what minetest does. accounts there are per-server |
| 00:24 |
nepugia |
Well, I don't see a point in that |
| 00:24 |
nepugia |
Better improve mt i guess |
| 00:24 |
wowaname |
what do you mean unlisted, like not public? |
| 00:24 |
kurtzmusch |
exactly |
| 00:25 |
wowaname |
ehh, but what if you want it public lol |
| 00:25 |
kurtzmusch |
well, its a server, but its name isnt on the list due to not paying mojang to be listed |
| 00:25 |
wowaname |
if it was just a few friends that we could trust not to get into each other's stuff, then it'd be fine |
| 00:25 |
kurtzmusch |
by exatcly i meant: better improve minetest |
| 00:25 |
wowaname |
ah |
| 00:26 |
kurtzmusch |
the server is public, just unlisted |
| 00:26 |
kurtzmusch |
an foss master-server could be easily done too |
| 00:26 |
wowaname |
my point is if its in any way public then what if someone somewhere along the line invites a dick who wants to loot the stuff from everyone else's inventories |
| 00:27 |
kurtzmusch |
whut? |
| 00:28 |
kurtzmusch |
loot from inventory? |
| 00:28 |
wowaname |
was your "not necessarily" comment not in response to my "you need per-server accounts if you dont buy a mojang account" |
| 00:34 |
kurtzmusch |
when i wrote my voxel engine in java the voxel resolutution was much higher so i had to make it gigantic, i remember that i had to use more than one interger to describe each dimension and i also remember having to render everythuing near the origin of the world because far away from 0, 0, 0 the floating point looses precision so the meshes start to warp and everythings looks distorted |
| 00:34 |
wowaname |
in any case i'll stalk the minetest bug list and overall development for a while and see what people want/need vs what is already in place |
| 00:34 |
kurtzmusch |
its not easy, but very doable |
| 00:34 |
wowaname |
yeah floating point is a nightmare to deal with |
| 00:36 |
kurtzmusch |
not necessarily that you need an acount, having per-server acount would be the solution |
| 00:36 |
kurtzmusch |
mojang account |
| 00:36 |
wowaname |
oh thats what you meant |
| 00:37 |
wowaname |
there must be relay lag between freenode and matrix (i wouldnt be surprised) so i thought you were replying to "no you wouldnt need per-server accts" |
| 00:37 |
kurtzmusch |
mt uses per server account |
| 00:38 |
kurtzmusch |
and i think you could even monetyze it |
| 00:38 |
kurtzmusch |
not sure though |
| 00:38 |
nepugia |
wowaname, matrix.org? |
| 00:40 |
wowaname |
self-hosted, but the matrix-appservice-irc bridge itself is probably overloaded |
| 00:41 |
wowaname |
yeah i'd never use matrix.org as my homeserver lol, i dont think theyre tor-friendly either. i know riot.im isnt, so i needed to put the web files on my server too and access the client like that |
| 00:41 |
wowaname |
desktop clients still arent too usable, theres nheko but its weird about encryption |
| 00:44 |
* galaxie |
thinks people should just stick to IRC |
| 00:45 |
wowaname |
i've only started using matrix because i needed some way to bridge to discord channels |
| 00:45 |
wowaname |
i hate all the chat platforms i use |
| 00:45 |
wowaname |
i just gave up and use what other people use |
| 00:45 |
galaxie |
wowaname: How's that work now? |
| 00:45 |
wowaname |
but i *cannot* use discord nowadays so i had to work around that |
| 00:45 |
wowaname |
so here i am |
| 00:45 |
wowaname |
the discord relay? |
| 00:46 |
wowaname |
bot sits on discord guild, bot joins matrix room, you do a command on both sides and it links up a channel |
| 00:46 |
wowaname |
for every additional channel on the discord guild, you need a new matrix channel |
| 00:49 |
kurtzmusch |
personaly, i think that if the engine could warp the world, that would be much cooler than just beeing larger |
| 00:54 |
wowaname |
in its own way it'd be cool, yeah |
| 01:25 |
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| 02:35 |
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| 02:35 |
sinisterporpiose |
hey guys -- i'be een having a problem with a server setup. Debian 9, A2 Hosting. I've got the server up and running but it seems that no mobs will spawn. |
| 02:36 |
sinisterporpiose |
I've checked the world.mt file multiple times to see things are set to true |
| 03:14 |
swift110-pi |
hey |
| 03:19 |
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| 04:40 |
nepugia |
What could the cause of this be? ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Node name is not set or is not a string!, the call that triggers this seams to be minetest.place_node({x=x, y=y, z=z}, MOD_NAME .. ":static_strut"), which to me seams to be a string :g |
| 04:42 |
nepugia |
(MOD_NAME is defined as local MOD_NAME = minetest.get_current_modname() , x y and z are integers and loop counters) |
| 05:23 |
swift110-pi |
just installed minetest on a raspberry pi |
| 05:23 |
BluedelaOof[m] |
Nice |
| 05:24 |
BluedelaOof[m] |
Tbh, that's what I run it on most of the time |
| 05:29 |
jas_ |
nepugia: minetest.place_node(pos, {name = "item:string"}) perhaps |
| 05:32 |
nepugia |
jas_, indeed, that it is, thanks |
| 05:33 |
nepugia |
(the documentation was a bit unclear what it ment with 'node') |
| 05:40 |
jas_ |
you're welcome. it's tripped me up many times; add_node/set_node also require that format. |
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| 14:44 |
swift110-pi |
do you guys recommend running a minetest server from a pi 3? i might do this or might wait until i get a pi 4 |
| 14:57 |
nalkri |
I've done it on a 3 with no problems |
| 14:57 |
nalkri |
Only a handful of users tough |
| 15:00 |
aldum |
what did use for storage? |
| 15:01 |
swift110-pi |
oh ok |
| 15:02 |
swift110-pi |
how long did you run the server |
| 15:04 |
nalkri |
I used an old usb HDD but eventually ran out of space, need to resurrect it with a bigger one |
| 15:04 |
nalkri |
And maybe six months |
| 15:10 |
swift110-pi |
oh ok so it was good performance then |
| 15:10 |
swift110-pi |
no problem with scenew? |
| 15:10 |
swift110-pi |
m |
| 15:10 |
swift110-pi |
scenes |
| 15:10 |
nalkri |
I don't understand the question |
| 15:11 |
nalkri |
Not that I recall |
| 15:16 |
swift110-pi |
ok |
| 15:17 |
swift110-pi |
like if you built elaborate building |
| 15:17 |
swift110-pi |
would it lag |
| 15:20 |
nalkri |
I don't remember any problems |
| 15:23 |
swift110-pi |
cool |
| 15:23 |
swift110-pi |
a testimony to minetest |
| 15:24 |
SAMIAMNOT |
what's that supposed to mean |
| 15:25 |
nalkri |
I don't know that we were ambitious though |
| 15:25 |
nalkri |
Still, I'll certainly try again on my 3 when I have time to configure it |
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swift110-pi |
thats coool |
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| 17:15 |
Ingar |
Krock: mientest is almost playable on the RPi4 |
| 17:15 |
Ingar |
*minetest :) |
| 17:15 |
Krock |
almost? |
| 17:16 |
Ingar |
is there a quick way to show FPS ? |
| 17:20 |
Ingar |
a bit sluggish when looking around fast |
| 17:21 |
Ingar |
but, besides that, far more playable than expected |
| 17:21 |
sfan5 |
press f5 |
| 17:21 |
Ingar |
20-30fps |
| 17:21 |
Ingar |
shaders disabled |
| 17:22 |
Krock |
to bad |
| 17:23 |
Ingar |
I could probably improve things be reducing view distance |
| 17:23 |
Ingar |
by |
| 17:23 |
Krock |
also by disabling the stars in the sky |
| 17:23 |
Krock |
and removing the zbuffer clear calls in wieldmesh |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
and by using bitmap fonts rather than freetype |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
with all that stuff done you can get a few FPS more out of it |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
almost doubled it on my laptop starting from 8 (or so) to 12 |
| 17:25 |
Krock |
I call it the pro gamer laptop because you have to be a mastermind and see the future to play on it |
| 17:26 |
Ingar |
the driver isn't the greatest either |
| 17:27 |
Ingar |
I don't go above 75% CPU usage |
| 17:27 |
Krock |
the client only uses one core |
| 17:27 |
Ingar |
it jsut means we're GPU bound |
| 17:28 |
Ingar |
not that I actually intend on play mt on a Pi |
| 17:28 |
Krock |
not necessarily. it could also be that Minetest doesn't take the advanced of the 4 core CPU |
| 17:29 |
Krock |
-d |
| 17:29 |
Krock |
no. *advantage |
| 17:29 |
Ingar |
as a tech test, let's say I'm impressed by both MT and the Pi :D |
| 17:30 |
Ingar |
(I tried it earlier with HW accelleration disabled and it was horrible) |
| 18:23 |
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| 18:34 |
NoctisLabs |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23412 |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
nice but can it teleport televators? |
| 18:36 |
Krock |
only a Yes is acceptable |
| 18:36 |
NoctisLabs |
You'll need to create a televator televator mod for that ;) |
| 18:37 |
Krock |
insufficient mod capabilities |
| 18:37 |
Krock |
actually you can. place them into the inventory and carry it over by yourself |
| 18:37 |
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MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Document node drop tool filtering by string matching as deprecated (#… 653d7b8 https://git.io/JenBi (2019-09-30T20:34:43Z) |
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| 23:12 |
nepugia |
for minetest.dig_node(pos) what am i supposed to to do to get the item that it will drop? (i.e prevent it from dropping), for instance to put it in an container |
| 23:17 |
nepugia |
Or is there perhaps another call that is more suited to 'dig' nodes? |
| 23:18 |
nepugia |
(I want to get the drops of the block into an inventory, but still run the on_break hooks for the block, if any) |
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