Time Nick Message 00:00 wowaname i like playing with choice. anarchy already gives choice to me (no need to obey arbitrary rules, i can grief if i want, i can build if i want, i can spam in chat and be a dick or i can mute chat and play in silence) 00:00 wowaname lol calcul0n 00:01 wowaname kurtzmusch: how much was the map reduced btw, so i can get an idea 00:01 wowaname one twitch streamer's mc server i played on for a bit, that was like 35k all directions i think 00:02 wowaname and i can't gauge how good that is because now nobody plays on it :p 00:02 kurtzmusch i dont quite remeber but i think it went from 32k radiues to 8k radius 00:02 kurtzmusch 32k is the maximum limit 00:03 wowaname oh damn, what was the player range 00:03 wowaname currently i play on a ~100 concurrent player server 00:03 kurtzmusch exploring the entire world wouldnt fit in a hard drive 00:03 kurtzmusch what do you mean player range ? 00:03 wowaname and of course 2b2t is too huge to handle the amount of players it gets, i think theres 100 actually on but it can go up to 1000 in queue 00:03 galaxie wowaname: Somehow I'm imagining a Tower of Babel to utilize all that vertical space.. 00:04 wowaname like how many players online on average 00:04 kurtzmusch oh, soemthing like 10 00:04 kurtzmusch or less 00:05 kurtzmusch another reason why mc worlds dont need so much size: there arent many players lol 00:05 wowaname i forget 2b's world size but i think it's in the terabytes range now. there are a few ideas going around about managing the map (for example delta, throwing away chunks that havent been modified, etc) that could improve disk usage, but i think thats a concern for later, i dont think it'd block the desire to raise the map size limit 00:05 kurtzmusch throwing away unmodified chunks is something that fixes the problem 00:05 wowaname kurtzmusch: eh i would say that there arent many players because it's difficult as hell for minecraft to handle it, not the other way around. i believe more people would play on a server if it could support more players 00:06 kurtzmusch 98% of the space was generated for travel probably 00:06 wowaname not true for everyone of course, but for those people they can set the map to 64k and call it a day 00:06 wowaname 64k could be *default* and people like me could go all out 00:06 calcul0n thing is we have a hash system to store positions in 3x16 bits 00:07 wowaname and of course theres problems with throwing away chunks, but again i believe thats a later, case-by-case issue. biggest issue i see is modifying the chunk gen on an existing map 00:07 calcul0n so i don't think we can make maps bigger than 64k without breakingall existing mods 00:07 wowaname youll have countless "chunk errors" and discontinuities with that, but some people might be able to make that tradeoff 00:08 wowaname yeah im aware this would be a huge undertaking, i think a lot of people see that 00:09 wowaname i saw there was a branch on the git repository that hacked in the larger map size, maybe if theres enough incentive to improve upon that branch independently (of course merging in from master as well so as not to stray too far from master dev) then i could even help out with that 00:09 wowaname seeing that i do want to develop on *something* related to my beloved virtual lego game, so if i could do that with minetest and just forget about cuberite, i would, granted enough free time 00:12 kurtzmusch i meant that minetest doesnt nedd size because it doesnt have players, my bad 00:13 wowaname well thats just a catch 22 then 00:13 wowaname room for expansion should be considered 00:14 wowaname i like minetest's commitment to FOSS, i like its resource use (10x smaller than fucking minecraft client, and runs at 60fps on my igpu), i like its modularity 00:14 kurtzmusch it has pros an cons 00:14 wowaname i hear complaints about the modding engine not being up to par with what modders expect, and as such, some devs get demotivated by that + lack of players and just quit dealing with minetest 00:15 wowaname but, if minetest gains more traction, i see that changing 00:15 wowaname correct me if im wrong but i think the only reason mc modding picked up was because its userbase was both stubborn and large 00:15 wowaname s/was/is/ 00:16 wowaname same reason you see nintendo homebrewing so quickly, because people are dedicated to working on something that is popular 00:16 wowaname so that kind of offsets the difficulty of working with these code blobs 00:17 nepugia I don't think that more users-> more devs neccesarily 00:17 kurtzmusch the problem is that changes on the engine take forever to come out due to lack of core devs time 00:17 wowaname nah im just saying theres more incentive for new potential devs to hack onto something with more users 00:17 nepugia devs hack because it is fun 00:17 nepugia not neccesarily to please users, that is if anything a bonus 00:17 wowaname yeah i understand that, this is entirely a free project 00:17 nepugia and annoying users can be a huge reason to /not/ develop 00:18 wowaname well for multiplayer stuff i would also "please users" because i want my friends and other people to play on the stuff i made, right? 00:18 nepugia I would rather make something i can be proud of, rather than something that abides by everyones silly requests :) 00:18 kurtzmusch now, the issue of the world size isnt a matter of time, its a matter of maintaining compatibility+ having other priorities 00:18 wowaname oh no i agree fully 00:19 wowaname im saying passion projects can come out if they can be appreciated 00:19 wowaname i ignore all the idiots telling me what to do with my own code 00:19 wowaname unless theyre actual bugs i would have fixed anyway lol 00:19 kurtzmusch if i understand correlty there was already some drama around releas 5.00 that borke compatibility 00:20 nepugia wasn't there also drama aboout it beeing called 5.0? :P 00:20 wowaname i think if i had a "purpose" for coming in here with this rant (other than getting it off my chest) i'd say im trying to weigh where my efforts would be more beneficial: minetest or cuberite. theyre both foss but one just has compatibility with a better client ;p 00:21 nepugia what is cuberite? 00:21 wowaname cxx mc server 00:21 nepugia i know many foss "mc-like" games 00:21 wowaname supports feature parity up to 1.12 00:21 nepugia a C++ minecraft compatible server? 00:21 wowaname yes 00:21 nepugia I know a rust minecraft compatible client 00:21 kurtzmusch lol 00:21 wowaname oh cool 00:22 nepugia Although that might just have been singleplayer maybe 00:22 wowaname people taking the rewrite-in-rust meme way too seriously 00:22 kurtzmusch there we go client+server that is not mojangs lol 00:22 wowaname there's this proof of concept C/opengl client i saw on github a while ago, simply called "craft", it has its own client/server protocol but if i was looking to replace the mc client i'd probably base off that 00:22 nepugia Well, i don't see why one would keep compat with mc in any way 00:23 kurtzmusch imagine trying to hit that moving target that is minecraft... 00:23 nepugia The architecture that Garry's mod has for mods is what i would try to get 00:23 wowaname i think the one big issue with piggybacking on mc's protocol is the fact you still gotta pay for an account 00:23 wowaname and connect out to mojang's auth servers 00:23 wowaname either that or deal with some stupid hacked-on auth plugin in your server 00:23 kurtzmusch not necessarily 00:24 kurtzmusch there could be unlisted servers 00:24 wowaname which, to be fair it wouldnt be much different from what minetest does. accounts there are per-server 00:24 nepugia Well, I don't see a point in that 00:24 nepugia Better improve mt i guess 00:24 wowaname what do you mean unlisted, like not public? 00:24 kurtzmusch exactly 00:25 wowaname ehh, but what if you want it public lol 00:25 kurtzmusch well, its a server, but its name isnt on the list due to not paying mojang to be listed 00:25 wowaname if it was just a few friends that we could trust not to get into each other's stuff, then it'd be fine 00:25 kurtzmusch by exatcly i meant: better improve minetest 00:25 wowaname ah 00:26 kurtzmusch the server is public, just unlisted 00:26 kurtzmusch an foss master-server could be easily done too 00:26 wowaname my point is if its in any way public then what if someone somewhere along the line invites a dick who wants to loot the stuff from everyone else's inventories 00:27 kurtzmusch whut? 00:28 kurtzmusch loot from inventory? 00:28 wowaname was your "not necessarily" comment not in response to my "you need per-server accounts if you dont buy a mojang account" 00:34 kurtzmusch when i wrote my voxel engine in java the voxel resolutution was much higher so i had to make it gigantic, i remember that i had to use more than one interger to describe each dimension and i also remember having to render everythuing near the origin of the world because far away from 0, 0, 0 the floating point looses precision so the meshes start to warp and everythings looks distorted 00:34 wowaname in any case i'll stalk the minetest bug list and overall development for a while and see what people want/need vs what is already in place 00:34 kurtzmusch its not easy, but very doable 00:34 wowaname yeah floating point is a nightmare to deal with 00:36 kurtzmusch not necessarily that you need an acount, having per-server acount would be the solution 00:36 kurtzmusch mojang account 00:36 wowaname oh thats what you meant 00:37 wowaname there must be relay lag between freenode and matrix (i wouldnt be surprised) so i thought you were replying to "no you wouldnt need per-server accts" 00:37 kurtzmusch mt uses per server account 00:38 kurtzmusch and i think you could even monetyze it 00:38 kurtzmusch not sure though 00:38 nepugia wowaname, matrix.org? 00:40 wowaname self-hosted, but the matrix-appservice-irc bridge itself is probably overloaded 00:41 wowaname yeah i'd never use matrix.org as my homeserver lol, i dont think theyre tor-friendly either. i know riot.im isnt, so i needed to put the web files on my server too and access the client like that 00:41 wowaname desktop clients still arent too usable, theres nheko but its weird about encryption 00:44 * galaxie thinks people should just stick to IRC 00:45 wowaname i've only started using matrix because i needed some way to bridge to discord channels 00:45 wowaname i hate all the chat platforms i use 00:45 wowaname i just gave up and use what other people use 00:45 galaxie wowaname: How's that work now? 00:45 wowaname but i *cannot* use discord nowadays so i had to work around that 00:45 wowaname so here i am 00:45 wowaname the discord relay? 00:46 wowaname bot sits on discord guild, bot joins matrix room, you do a command on both sides and it links up a channel 00:46 wowaname for every additional channel on the discord guild, you need a new matrix channel 00:49 kurtzmusch personaly, i think that if the engine could warp the world, that would be much cooler than just beeing larger 00:54 wowaname in its own way it'd be cool, yeah 02:35 sinisterporpiose hey guys -- i'be een having a problem with a server setup. Debian 9, A2 Hosting. I've got the server up and running but it seems that no mobs will spawn. 02:36 sinisterporpiose I've checked the world.mt file multiple times to see things are set to true 03:14 swift110-pi hey 04:40 nepugia What could the cause of this be? ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Node name is not set or is not a string!, the call that triggers this seams to be minetest.place_node({x=x, y=y, z=z}, MOD_NAME .. ":static_strut"), which to me seams to be a string :g 04:42 nepugia (MOD_NAME is defined as local MOD_NAME = minetest.get_current_modname() , x y and z are integers and loop counters) 05:23 swift110-pi just installed minetest on a raspberry pi 05:23 BluedelaOof[m] Nice 05:24 BluedelaOof[m] Tbh, that's what I run it on most of the time 05:29 jas_ nepugia: minetest.place_node(pos, {name = "item:string"}) perhaps 05:32 nepugia jas_, indeed, that it is, thanks 05:33 nepugia (the documentation was a bit unclear what it ment with 'node') 05:40 jas_ you're welcome. it's tripped me up many times; add_node/set_node also require that format. 14:44 swift110-pi do you guys recommend running a minetest server from a pi 3? i might do this or might wait until i get a pi 4 14:57 nalkri I've done it on a 3 with no problems 14:57 nalkri Only a handful of users tough 15:00 aldum what did use for storage? 15:01 swift110-pi oh ok 15:02 swift110-pi how long did you run the server 15:04 nalkri I used an old usb HDD but eventually ran out of space, need to resurrect it with a bigger one 15:04 nalkri And maybe six months 15:10 swift110-pi oh ok so it was good performance then 15:10 swift110-pi no problem with scenew? 15:10 swift110-pi m 15:10 swift110-pi scenes 15:10 nalkri I don't understand the question 15:11 nalkri Not that I recall 15:16 swift110-pi ok 15:17 swift110-pi like if you built elaborate building 15:17 swift110-pi would it lag 15:20 nalkri I don't remember any problems 15:23 swift110-pi cool 15:23 swift110-pi a testimony to minetest 15:24 SAMIAMNOT what's that supposed to mean 15:25 nalkri I don't know that we were ambitious though 15:25 nalkri Still, I'll certainly try again on my 3 when I have time to configure it 16:41 swift110-pi thats coool 17:15 Ingar Krock: mientest is almost playable on the RPi4 17:15 Ingar *minetest :) 17:15 Krock almost? 17:16 Ingar is there a quick way to show FPS ? 17:20 Ingar a bit sluggish when looking around fast 17:21 Ingar but, besides that, far more playable than expected 17:21 sfan5 press f5 17:21 Ingar 20-30fps 17:21 Ingar shaders disabled 17:22 Krock to bad 17:23 Ingar I could probably improve things be reducing view distance 17:23 Ingar by 17:23 Krock also by disabling the stars in the sky 17:23 Krock and removing the zbuffer clear calls in wieldmesh 17:24 Krock and by using bitmap fonts rather than freetype 17:24 Krock with all that stuff done you can get a few FPS more out of it 17:24 Krock almost doubled it on my laptop starting from 8 (or so) to 12 17:25 Krock I call it the pro gamer laptop because you have to be a mastermind and see the future to play on it 17:26 Ingar the driver isn't the greatest either 17:27 Ingar I don't go above 75% CPU usage 17:27 Krock the client only uses one core 17:27 Ingar it jsut means we're GPU bound 17:28 Ingar not that I actually intend on play mt on a Pi 17:28 Krock not necessarily. it could also be that Minetest doesn't take the advanced of the 4 core CPU 17:29 Krock -d 17:29 Krock no. *advantage 17:29 Ingar as a tech test, let's say I'm impressed by both MT and the Pi :D 17:30 Ingar (I tried it earlier with HW accelleration disabled and it was horrible) 18:34 NoctisLabs https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23412 18:35 Krock nice but can it teleport televators? 18:36 Krock only a Yes is acceptable 18:36 NoctisLabs You'll need to create a televator televator mod for that ;) 18:37 Krock insufficient mod capabilities 18:37 Krock actually you can. place them into the inventory and carry it over by yourself 20:36 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Document node drop tool filtering by string matching as deprecated (#… 13653d7b8 https://git.io/JenBi (152019-09-30T20:34:43Z) 23:12 nepugia for minetest.dig_node(pos) what am i supposed to to do to get the item that it will drop? (i.e prevent it from dropping), for instance to put it in an container 23:17 nepugia Or is there perhaps another call that is more suited to 'dig' nodes? 23:18 nepugia (I want to get the drops of the block into an inventory, but still run the on_break hooks for the block, if any)