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| 14:22 |
jas_ |
nepugia: if you've got its position, you can do anything. remove the node manually, copy its information for transmission to various inventories, etc ... |
| 14:23 |
jas_ |
local t = minetest.get_item_drops(minetest.get_node(pos).name); for i = 1, #t do player:get_inventory():add_item("main", t[i]) end; i dunno, something like that. |
| 14:24 |
jas_ |
someone recently, anand? suggested an add_from_list type feature. metatable? i dunno these |
| 14:24 |
jas_ |
anyways, you can get its drops with that feature, but it's listed in the docs are marked for removal |
| 14:24 |
jas_ |
it works tho |
| 14:25 |
jas_ |
speaking of features with warnings, minetest.register_on_place_node also contains one, recommending the node's on_place callback instead |
| 14:25 |
jas_ |
but that works also |
| 14:33 |
nepugia |
jas_ yeah, i did see get_item_drops, but using deprecated features is kinda ehh |
| 14:34 |
nepugia |
I tried ItemStack(node.name) and variations but didn't have much luck there either (the room_for_item call always failed) |
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| 17:11 |
MinetestBot |
[git] JamesTobin -> minetest/minetest: README: Add dependencies for Arch Linux (#8998) 251038e https://git.io/JenyV (2019-10-01T17:09:59Z) |
| 17:11 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: All Settings: Set min limit for crtitical settings (#9000) 7fafe65 https://git.io/Jenyw (2019-10-01T17:09:37Z) |
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| 18:24 |
wowaname |
so wait what *was* the reason for jumping from 0.4 to 5.0 instead of like 1.0 |
| 18:26 |
Krock |
because Minetest is not just one, but 5x feature-complete |
| 18:26 |
Krock |
s/one/once/ |
| 18:26 |
Krock |
5x less bugs (from 0 to 0) |
| 18:27 |
wowaname |
i preferred a serious answer |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
well, it kinda goes into that direction |
| 18:27 |
wowaname |
:v |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
because people think that it's still in heavy development, unstable and that stuff |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
whereas it might be, 5.0 is a nicer number than a leading zero |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
and games are never complete, and there are always requests so 1.0 would be a worse choice than just dropping the leading ero |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
*zero |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
AFAIK there was a multi-page long discussion on that on the forums, like 7 months ago or so |
| 18:36 |
Krock |
after all it was quite an unusual change in the history of Minetest. many old packet types were removed, including compatibility code and sending real floats over the network |
| 18:37 |
Krock |
I hope that answers your question, wowaname |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:53 |
Wuzzy |
"games are never complete" ... thats completely false. Chess is complete. i really hate the "eternal beta" ideology. |
| 18:53 |
Wuzzy |
but yeah minetest 5.0 is really just minetest 0.5 |
| 18:53 |
Wuzzy |
well, not *really* of course |
| 18:54 |
Wuzzy |
but minetest just has many many rough edges |
| 18:55 |
Wuzzy |
i wonder what will be the equivalent to version 1.0 in minetest (since version 1.0 doesnt exist) |
| 18:56 |
Wuzzy |
version 1.0 as in, the first truly release-worthy, promotion-worthy "bug-free" version that you can drop to the masses. something that could theoretically be reviewed |
| 18:57 |
Krock |
Wuzzy: where's the 3D chess mode? |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
there's also this weird bug where the towers can move |
| 18:59 |
Wuzzy |
but i agree minetest is moving closer to a true 1.0 version |
| 19:00 |
Wuzzy |
e.g. formspec coords have been fixed. thats a big one |
| 19:00 |
Wuzzy |
but entities are still very painful to deal with. maybe it even needs a complete rework |
| 19:01 |
kurtzmusch |
Wuzzy mt 1 would be good entitites. csm and network that doesnt lag for 1 or 2 seconds even though the actual ping is just 100 ms |
| 19:01 |
Wuzzy |
especially collision of entities seems kinda broken |
| 19:01 |
jas_ |
Wuzzy: nothing is complete |
| 19:01 |
Wuzzy |
i dont think csm should be a requirement |
| 19:02 |
Wuzzy |
"complete" doesnt mean "100% perfection". just "all the features we wanted in this game (engine)" |
| 19:02 |
kurtzmusch |
i dont think its possible to make good entities without them... i might be wrong though |
| 19:02 |
Wuzzy |
thats the reason why i am strongly opposed to the eternal beta ideology that seems infesting FOSS dev for some time now... |
| 19:02 |
jas_ |
what's in a number? |
| 19:04 |
jas_ |
personally i thought it was kinda unfortunate they mt skipped versions for appearance's sake. i'm glad it seems to be working out... |
| 19:04 |
Wuzzy |
i think #1 problem with entities is collision. there's just so many "mobs sneak through solid nodes" bugs in MCL2 |
| 19:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome |
| 19:04 |
kurtzmusch |
dafug |
| 19:04 |
kurtzmusch |
#2 |
| 19:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood |
| 19:04 |
jas_ |
#7924 |
| 19:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7924 -- [NO SQUASH] Allow binding dig, place actions to keys; remove LMB/RMB hardcoding by ClobberXD |
| 19:05 |
jas_ |
heh, remembered the number by heart |
| 19:05 |
Wuzzy |
oh yeah. non-moronic controls is another very important requirement imo |
| 19:05 |
Wuzzy |
and number #2 problem with entities is their entire API |
| 19:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood |
| 19:05 |
jas_ |
i feel strongly mouse binds is an accessibility issue |
| 19:06 |
Wuzzy |
entities are weirdly different from players. many calls that work for players dont work for entities ... and (this is the weird part) vice-versa |
| 19:07 |
Wuzzy |
a fool might assume that players "inherit" features from entities (in an OOP) fashion but thats not exactly true. the devil lies in the details |
| 19:07 |
Wuzzy |
no set_velocity for players |
| 19:07 |
Wuzzy |
and the other way around, no gravity for entities. you all have to code it by hand |
| 19:08 |
jas_ |
yeah |
| 19:08 |
Wuzzy |
The whole api just doesnt make sense. maybe its best to just burn all entities to the ground and start over |
| 19:08 |
jas_ |
wuzzy i just hope you don't get too overwhelmed with all of these details. it is after all, just a game. |
| 19:09 |
jas_ |
"burn it all to the ground and start over" is a good indication |
| 19:09 |
jas_ |
lol o/ |
| 19:09 |
Wuzzy |
Games are serious business! |
| 19:09 |
Wuzzy |
? |
| 19:10 |
Wuzzy |
well but its all the details added together that make entities painful to deal with |
| 19:10 |
Wuzzy |
one of the best games we have ucurrently has a very clever way to deal with entities |
| 19:10 |
Wuzzy |
avoiding them like the plague ? |
| 19:10 |
Wuzzy |
i am talking of course of Inside The Box |
| 19:12 |
Wuzzy |
one really frustrating bug is that you cannot even spawn entities reliably. add_entity() may or may not spawn an entity and its near-impossible to check if a spawn succeeded. and that's not just a detail |
| 19:13 |
kurtzmusch |
Wuzzy: i strongly believe that seting player velocity should be done client side, just see how long it takes to sprint after you press E, even with ping about 100ms it can take 1 or 2 seconds |
| 19:13 |
kurtzmusch |
this is why imo CSM MUST be a thing |
| 19:13 |
Wuzzy |
look |
| 19:13 |
Wuzzy |
thats what i hate about csm proponents |
| 19:13 |
Wuzzy |
they always assume the only way to fix current issues is by CSM. no alternatives are considered |
| 19:15 |
Wuzzy |
So, obviously, for player physics stuff like sprinting, handling it all server side is indeed stupid. i agree. but that doesnt neccessarily mean we need to have scripting on the client |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:16 |
Wuzzy |
an alternative would be to let server define special controls that activate special player physics (e.g. sprint). the server just tells that the client ... once and thats it. no client scripts needed |
| 19:17 |
Wuzzy |
thats admittedly only a rought example, but i just want to show that not every problem (if any) requires client scripts |
| 19:17 |
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| 19:17 |
jas_ |
ok i'm back |
| 19:18 |
kurtzmusch |
well, yes but that would be extremely limiting: allowing to have programable behaviour on the client side means a lot less work for engine devs and more stuff offloaded to modders. imagine covering all the possible stuff we can think of on the engine side... |
| 19:18 |
jas_ |
you hate csm proponents? you hate me wuzzy? :'( |
| 19:19 |
Wuzzy |
i'm not a friend of "offloading stuff to modders" just because you can |
| 19:19 |
jas_ |
why do you hate me? |
| 19:19 |
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| 19:19 |
kurtzmusch |
the thing about csm is that it allows modders to do more with less engine changes |
| 19:19 |
Wuzzy |
jas_: thats not what i said! |
| 19:19 |
jas_ |
the thing about csm is that it's c-l-i-e-n-t s-i-d-e |
| 19:19 |
kurtzmusch |
im not a fan either, but its better with we have the control than not having anythung at all |
| 19:19 |
jas_ |
oh, well u did say "one thing i hate about csm proponents" |
| 19:20 |
jas_ |
perhaps you meant, one proposition csm proponents make i hate, is that... it's the details, as you say |
| 19:20 |
kurtzmusch |
its better if ** |
| 19:20 |
jas_ |
i mean, what other things do you hate about csm proponents, right? ;) |
| 19:20 |
jas_ |
my hair? |
| 19:20 |
Wuzzy |
you're overinterpreting, and you know that |
| 19:20 |
jas_ |
you want this perfect thing, it's not happening |
| 19:20 |
jas_ |
that's my interpretation |
| 19:20 |
Krock |
jas_: your hair is floating awfully in this soup of csm contents |
| 19:20 |
jas_ |
it does |
| 19:21 |
jas_ |
very annoying |
| 19:21 |
jas_ |
https://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/everamzah/ i have a lot of hair |
| 19:23 |
jas_ |
my problem wuzzy is that you argue these things, and sometimes get them removed. you and i have very different ideals |
| 19:23 |
jas_ |
recent tool regex for example. |
| 19:23 |
Wuzzy |
did you use tool regex? |
| 19:23 |
jas_ |
obviously, i am heavily reliant on sneak glitch, which u heavily advocated against in the past |
| 19:24 |
Wuzzy |
well the problem was it was deeply ingrained into the engine and subjugated *all* games to sneak glitch. which is not good |
| 19:24 |
jas_ |
it's great now, i hope you're satisfied |
| 19:24 |
jas_ |
i know i am |
| 19:24 |
jas_ |
it was a complete improvement |
| 19:25 |
jas_ |
i use a hybrid old_move/new_move. new_move with sneak glitch disabled by default, and when sprinting it's old_move with sneak_glitch enabled |
| 19:25 |
jas_ |
but you can not imagine my dismay when it got removed |
| 19:25 |
jas_ |
it's over, i'm over it lol |
| 19:25 |
Wuzzy |
maybe if people really care they could push for the Return of The Sneak Glitch. except this time, as a proper feature that actually works without all the glitchyness attached to it. |
| 19:25 |
jas_ |
i'm content now |
| 19:26 |
jas_ |
i would like to see #9011 address |
| 19:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9011 -- Movement: sudden X/Z speed vector erased while landing from jumps |
| 19:26 |
Wuzzy |
and that could be turned on or off by game maker |
| 19:26 |
jas_ |
i don't remember the proper number for the still-open issue |
| 19:26 |
jas_ |
it's fine now for me Wuzzy, i know it's not "perfect" |
| 19:26 |
Wuzzy |
so did you ever need tool regex? |
| 19:26 |
jas_ |
but fall damage avoidance is addressed using get_player_velocity |
| 19:26 |
kurtzmusch |
#9011 doesnt happen only when falling btw, it also happens when initiating a jump |
| 19:26 |
jas_ |
so i can have my cake and eat it too |
| 19:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9011 -- Movement: sudden X/Z speed vector erased while landing from jumps |
| 19:26 |
jas_ |
you're missing the point wuzzy |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
the point is you want it gone |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
the's the point |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
8 year old feature, and you want to kill it before anyone knew it was there |
| 19:27 |
Wuzzy |
do you know anyone who uses tool regex? |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
celeron said it best, make the group-based PR first, then think about removing the old way |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
it's an interesting research project |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
but no, i do not |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
now, that is besides the point |
| 19:27 |
Wuzzy |
see? thats the point |
| 19:27 |
jas_ |
again, the point is you want it removed |
| 19:28 |
jas_ |
"just because" |
| 19:28 |
jas_ |
it doesn't fit your ideal |
| 19:28 |
jas_ |
that's not fair |
| 19:28 |
jas_ |
stop it! |
| 19:28 |
Wuzzy |
but that was not the reason why i was opposed... |
| 19:28 |
jas_ |
haha |
| 19:28 |
Wuzzy |
i did not advocate for its removal because nobody used it. |
| 19:28 |
Wuzzy |
i advocated for its removal because it just encouaged bad coding practice |
| 19:28 |
jas_ |
so says you! |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
and maybe even kharl, again not the point |
| 19:29 |
Wuzzy |
don't blame kahrl. |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
i don't blame anyone |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
that is the point |
| 19:29 |
Wuzzy |
this system was added before we had groups |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
indeed |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
i read the discussion |
| 19:29 |
Wuzzy |
now that we have groups, using regex is just completely dumb |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
unless |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
there exists no alternate |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
just because you think it's dumb |
| 19:29 |
jas_ |
doesn't mean you gut it |
| 19:29 |
Wuzzy |
But at least this is marked as deprecated |
| 19:30 |
Wuzzy |
well i thought you read the discussion? |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
sure, now it can at least be addressed |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
and the discussed is good, the agreement to move to groups is good |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
the premature removal of a feature is not good |
| 19:30 |
Wuzzy |
because then you know using regex would lead to hilarious bugs such as unexpectedly matching items that you never wanted to match |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
no |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
ur example is flawed |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
for example |
| 19:30 |
Wuzzy |
why |
| 19:30 |
jas_ |
if i search for stone group |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
i get stone, and i get stone walls |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
that's the reality |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
of the world, it's not perfect |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
it never will be |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
stop it! |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
:) |
| 19:31 |
Wuzzy |
... |
| 19:31 |
Wuzzy |
you are using MTG as example |
| 19:31 |
jas_ |
u can use regex correctly, it's done every day |
| 19:31 |
Wuzzy |
its MTG's fault they are using groups incorrectly, not Minetest's |
| 19:32 |
jas_ |
why are u using bad programming as a justification for removing it? because it's any justification, and any jusitification will do, because it's not fitting with your ideal here |
| 19:32 |
Wuzzy |
plus, it could be easily fixed |
| 19:32 |
jas_ |
or something, because honestly, that feature NEVER BOTHERED YOU |
| 19:32 |
jas_ |
stop it! heehhe okay o7 l8 |
| 19:32 |
Wuzzy |
it immediately bothered me as soon i learned about it |
| 19:32 |
Wuzzy |
and i spoke out against it in the same day |
| 19:35 |
blaise |
are there any shaders that give similar results in minetest as Sonic Ether’s Unbelievable Shaders do in MC ? |
| 19:35 |
Wuzzy |
in Minetest or in general? |
| 19:37 |
Wuzzy |
Minetets doesnt have great shaders and probably wont have them for a long time. Minetest is not about great graphics. in fact, the pixely style is even preferred |
| 19:37 |
Wuzzy |
so I believe the answer is probably no |
| 19:38 |
blaise |
I'm fine with the "pixely style" and also prefer it, I'm just wanting realistic shadows.. |
| 19:39 |
Wuzzy |
well we do have a smooth shadow setting |
| 19:39 |
Wuzzy |
just go into the settings menu |
| 19:39 |
Wuzzy |
but dont expect high-end graphics |
| 19:40 |
kurtzmusch |
custom shaders would be fantastic for so much stufff that isn't 'realistic graphics' |
| 19:40 |
Wuzzy |
fun fact: personally, i prefer the flat shadows because it allows me to see the light levels more clearly |
| 19:40 |
Wuzzy |
with smooth shadows thats much harder |
| 19:40 |
kurtzmusch |
also mipmaping and texture filtering is borked |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
issue ID? |
| 19:41 |
kurtzmusch |
idk its very old |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
if its not on the bugtracker, then it doesnt exist ? |
| 19:41 |
kurtzmusch |
there is an issue |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
ok |
| 19:41 |
kurtzmusch |
but i think it might have been forgotten |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
whatever |
| 19:41 |
kurtzmusch |
lemme look |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
as long theres an issue somewhere i am happy |
| 19:42 |
kurtzmusch |
basically the mipmaps or other forms of filtering are sampling transparent pixels |
| 19:42 |
kurtzmusch |
but since the engine doesnt render transparecny, it uses the color values of the pixel to interpolate |
| 19:42 |
Wuzzy |
which is probably why i never use it? ? |
| 19:42 |
Wuzzy |
i dislike filtering because everything looks so blurry |
| 19:43 |
kurtzmusch |
so you could have a green grass that turns black or pink at a distance if you set the transparent pixels to pink |
| 19:43 |
Wuzzy |
have fun fixing all the PNGs then, I guess ? |
| 19:43 |
kurtzmusch |
its a workaround obviously the problem is in the texture smapling implementation |
| 19:43 |
Wuzzy |
yea |
| 19:44 |
Wuzzy |
i think this is a common bug in many video games |
| 19:44 |
kurtzmusch |
even ITB looks crap with filtering |
| 19:44 |
Wuzzy |
i would dislike it even if not buggy i guess |
| 19:44 |
kurtzmusch |
does MC looks blurry to you? |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
now this might shock you but |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
i never played MC |
| 19:45 |
kurtzmusch |
lel |
| 19:45 |
kurtzmusch |
i havent in a long time |
| 19:46 |
kurtzmusch |
but i remember there was no noise at a distance and there was no changing in color with mipmaps or the "black" contour |
| 19:47 |
Wuzzy |
jas_: but i am fine with the current compromise of deprecating the feature |
| 19:48 |
Wuzzy |
so modders that *really* do want it can still use it (for now) but they are warned |
| 19:48 |
kurtzmusch |
#6846 is one of them, ive seen more |
| 19:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6846 -- Poor mip mapping of certain textures with transparent pixels |
| 19:48 |
kurtzmusch |
you gotta choose btween warping lava or black plants at a distance |
| 19:48 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SnicklePickles -> minetest/minetest_game: Grammar updates README.txt ce1eaee https://git.io/JenHZ (2019-10-01T19:47:58Z) |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
hybriddog tested a better algorithm in this issue https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6917 |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
for mipmapping |
| 19:51 |
Wuzzy |
about the dry shrub in #6846: IIRC, all pixels are either 0% or 100% in dry_shrub |
| 19:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6846 -- Poor mip mapping of certain textures with transparent pixels |
| 19:52 |
Wuzzy |
i believe, all plants in MTG are like that |
| 19:55 |
kurtzmusch |
sfan5 i think it looks worse in most cases, still the real problem is with textures using transparency, like all plantlike wich i dont think his algortihm fixes? |
| 19:56 |
sfan5 |
kurtzmusch: scroll down, there's some improved screenshots further down |
| 19:58 |
kurtzmusch |
oh, yes, the one he uses 50% linear downscale looks the best imo |
| 19:59 |
kurtzmusch |
wuzzy: its not about loosing detail( also a problem ) its about sampling the colors of transparent pixels, shifting the color of the plantlike nodes at a distance to black |
| 19:59 |
kurtzmusch |
well, usually black but whoever made the texture can shoose the color |
| 19:59 |
kurtzmusch |
0% transparency still has a color |
| 20:00 |
Wuzzy |
sorry, i was distracted by the 1st screenshot |
| 20:14 |
kurtzmusch |
#2154 here you can see texture filtering is sampling the white from the transparent pixels |
| 20:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2154 -- Texture filtering smoothes textures |
| 20:17 |
kurtzmusch |
it says on the bottom that it got fixed but it didnt |
| 20:17 |
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