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IRC log for #minetest, 2019-03-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:03 jimmy2 Helo
01:07 Emerald2 Hi Jimmy.
01:14 kaeza Greetings.
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01:29 jimmy2 Maybe this isn't the right place to talk about this but I want to love this game but it just always feels off to me
01:30 jimmy2 Like the UIs feel slow and clunky at times
01:30 jimmy2 But I love the idea of it being easily moddable
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04:34 sofar call me crazy but I haven't played mtg in 2 years
04:34 sofar how do you enable the minimap? is it like the binoculars where you need an item?
04:36 GreenDimond Creative or survival
04:36 GreenDimond creative is F9; survival in 5.0.0 MTG you need a map and compass or whatever its called
04:36 GreenDimond (and still F9)
04:36 GreenDimond so yes its like binoculars
04:38 Emerald2 mapping kit?
04:38 GreenDimond yeah that
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04:44 hiccup_ anyone around?  i'm new, trying to run the tutorial.  i've put it in ~/.minetest/games/tutorial but it doesn't show up when i try to start a new game
04:46 hiccup_ downloaded it here https://www.load.to/P94PXVbCts/tutorial2.5.1.zip
04:48 sofar hey
04:48 sofar do you have a game.conf in the /tutorial/ folder?
04:49 hiccup_ running minetest 5.0 on ubuntu 18.04.2.  yep sofar, it has a game.conf
04:50 sofar do you see the game icons at the bottom of the "start game" menu tab?
04:50 hiccup_ just for the default game, not the tutorial
04:51 GreenDimond Are you sure you downloaded a good version
04:51 GreenDimond I suggest git cloning
04:51 GreenDimond https://repo.or.cz/w/minetest_tutorial_subgame.git
04:52 sofar Wuzzy: ping - wake up :)
04:52 sofar honestly, and I just put this on the forum thread, it should be on contentdb
04:53 GreenDimond It is I think
04:53 Wuzzy hi
04:53 GreenDimond I swear it was
04:53 sofar I don't see it
04:53 GreenDimond It is
04:53 Wuzzy not compatible yet
04:53 GreenDimond Yeah
04:53 GreenDimond max ver is 0.4.17.1
04:53 Wuzzy all games that are not 5.0.0-ready will be auto-hidden (thanks, rubenwardy)
04:53 Wuzzy this is correct behaviour
04:53 GreenDimond https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/tutorial_game/
04:53 sofar yep, it is
04:54 sofar hiccup_: that explains it: it's not compatible with 5.0.0 yet
04:54 Wuzzy besides, a few new features need explaining anyway :P
04:54 sofar hiccup_: you'll need to wait - but once it's ready, you can use the in-game method to install it
04:54 Wuzzy ... and updating to the new translation system,,, and whatnot
04:54 hiccup_ oh ha ha.  should i install an older minetest?
04:54 Wuzzy no
04:54 sofar if you really want to play the tutorial, maybe help test the development code
04:55 sofar Wuzzy: can people test it yet?
04:55 GreenDimond kind of an odd game to really want to play bad
04:55 Wuzzy idk
04:55 sofar he may be teaching a class full of kids
04:55 Wuzzy tutorial is not a game... XD
04:55 Wuzzy bad luck then
04:55 GreenDimond It is by definition, a game
04:55 Wuzzy just be a little patient
04:55 Wuzzy no, its a tutorial :O
04:55 GreenDimond Its still a game
04:55 Wuzzy its by definition not a game
04:55 hiccup_ my 6 year old wanted to play minecraft and this is what i'm trying :)
04:55 GreenDimond it is loaded as a game
04:56 hiccup_ have to put her to bed now but will be back to see what you guys recommend
04:56 Wuzzy i believe in theory tutorial would work in 5.0.0, but with bugs
04:56 Wuzzy probably only the "silly sunken player" bug, but thats all
04:56 Wuzzy havent tried yet
04:56 GreenDimond most things work in 5.0.0, but with bugs
04:56 sofar Wuzzy: what's the git clone address?
04:57 GreenDimond *cough*
04:57 * GreenDimond points up
04:57 Wuzzy XD
04:57 sofar BUT WHY NOT git://
04:57 Wuzzy both work
04:57 GreenDimond because I cba to find the git://
04:57 GreenDimond my url bar is closer
04:57 sofar fatal: https://repo.or.cz/w/minetest_tutorial_subgame.git/info/refs not valid: is this a git repository?
04:58 Wuzzy omg...
04:58 GreenDimond this is why repo.or.cz sucks
04:58 Wuzzy https://repo.or.cz/minetest_tutorial_subgame.git
04:58 GreenDimond COUGH
04:58 sofar $ git clone git://repo.or.cz/w/minetest_tutorial_subgame.git
04:58 sofar fatal: remote error: access denied or no such repository
04:58 GreenDimond where is this magic /w/ from
04:59 sofar GreenDimond: your url, as well as forum post
04:59 GreenDimond oh that it is
04:59 GreenDimond whatever x)
04:59 GreenDimond I blame repo.or.cz
04:59 Wuzzy sofar: http://repo.or.cz/minetest_tutorial_subgame.git
04:59 sofar yeah I finally got it
04:59 Wuzzy sorry my fault i gave you the wrong link
04:59 sofar but I really would like git:// urls to work :)
05:00 sofar (far more efficient for cloning/pulling
05:00 Wuzzy sofar: ????????
05:00 Wuzzy my git:// URL works as well
05:00 Wuzzy why did you add /w/?
05:00 sofar I didn't
05:00 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10192
05:01 sofar read your own post :)
05:01 * Wuzzy cries a little inside
05:02 sofar ahahaha
05:02 * GreenDimond dies a little inside
05:02 GreenDimond owait no more inside left to die
05:03 Wuzzy fyi: I am currently working on MCL2 updates, trying out all those new 5.0.0 goodies
05:03 Wuzzy thanks for the biome api updates, they are very useful.
05:03 Wuzzy strata are cool
05:04 Wuzzy MCL2 already had strata, but they were based on the "sheet" ore before with a very low (or high?) offset so the ore just generates everywhere. it was a silly hack
05:05 Wuzzy with new strata i was able to add some little imperfections. pretty nice
05:05 Wuzzy new End will also be based on the strata ore, but thats probably going to be replaced again anyway. haha
05:06 Wuzzy then the XYZ definable biome positions will definitely be useful for the End, which must have a large center island (not implemented yet)
05:07 Wuzzy havent tried out the "hanging" decorations yet, but they sure will be very useful for those glowstone clusters in the Nether
05:07 Wuzzy basically i was trying out new 5.0.0 goodies all week.
05:08 Wuzzy tutorial and my mods will have to wait for an update, sorry
05:08 GreenDimond Ive been exhausting 5.0.0 goodies for the last few months
05:08 sofar Wuzzy: I've got a player model fix patch for you, do you want a git-am formatted email?
05:08 sofar then you can post the update to contentdb
05:08 GreenDimond there should be an unstable tag for cdb
05:08 Wuzzy no idea if its that simple. still need to test if it still works
05:09 Wuzzy well the "0.4.17" is kind of what you want
05:09 sofar looks fine to me, but I just walked around a tiny bit
05:10 sofar music works
05:10 Wuzzy sigh.... alright FINE. when i finshed next MCL2 version will look at tutorial ASAP
05:10 sofar how do you want the patch?
05:11 Wuzzy did MTG tweak the beaches, by any chance?
05:11 sofar yeah biome blend probably affects beaches
05:11 sofar well hmm that's probably mapgen not mtg
05:11 Wuzzy vertical biome blend is optional
05:12 Wuzzy is 0 by default, so no change for old biomes. thankfully, you devs are extrelemy conservative (that is a GOOD thing, for once! :D)
05:13 Wuzzy well i tried vertical biome blend on my MCL2 beaches but it looked kinda ugly
05:13 Wuzzy but i used vertical blending for a few other things, like grass-to-snow transition, or a change in sand color
05:14 Wuzzy seems like the longer the blend, the less chaotic it wil look, but its much harder to manage
05:14 sofar I think the tutorial is working fine with this player model fix alone
05:14 Wuzzy sofar: yeah it seems like mtg uses some vertical blending as well
05:16 sofar Wuzzy: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sofar/32acfe7ed67c99b580ca2aba9dcba45c/raw/83a149d2a084f3ea85b2223af7c153316562cd1a/gistfile1.txt
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05:16 sofar curl -L $URL | git am
05:17 Wuzzy did you just copy the model file from mtg?
05:17 sofar no, it's slightly modified for size
05:17 Wuzzy huh?
05:17 sofar (but in essence, yes)
05:17 Wuzzy for size???
05:17 sofar I left out some bits to make it smaller in file size
05:17 Wuzzy ohhhhhh
05:17 Wuzzy i thought you change the player height XD
05:17 Wuzzy that would be very weird
05:18 sofar haha
05:18 sofar no it's the same size as mtg
05:18 sofar but good point because that did break 1 box on ITB =D
05:18 Wuzzy ??
05:18 Wuzzy how is that even possible?!
05:19 Wuzzy its just a model, so how can it possibly break gameplay?
05:19 sofar mtg model size changed a tiny bit and trapdoors in ITB were previously passable
05:19 GreenDimond player height changed
05:19 sofar note: trapdoor below and top
05:19 Wuzzy or does mt make something silly like link collisionbox to mesh?
05:19 sofar 2 trapdoors (one on the floor when open, one on the ceiling when open)
05:19 GreenDimond in fact, the player dimensions in general changed
05:19 Wuzzy that is unrelated to the model, no?
05:19 sofar yes
05:19 GreenDimond He didnt really mean the model itself
05:20 Wuzzy ahhhh probably related to the new settable player collisionbox!!!!
05:20 sofar hmmm well itb's code never changed
05:20 sofar must be an engine default value then that's now different
05:20 Wuzzy Bad, bad changelog!!!
05:20 sofar ITB doesn't use mtg code for player model
05:20 Wuzzy it did not say that
05:20 GreenDimond dascht ist true
05:21 sofar file-size-optimized schoptimized
05:21 sofar git --amend
05:21 GreenDimond schmooptimized
05:21 sofar err
05:21 Wuzzy if the engine changed the default collisionbox even by 1 planck length it must be mentioned in changelog :P
05:22 Wuzzy sofar: alright alright YOU WIN. will look at updating tutorial soon(TM).
05:22 Wuzzy thx for patch anyway
05:23 Wuzzy i will probably only do a minimal tutorial. can always release a new version afterwards for the new shiny features
05:23 sofar ahaha this is just cool to have on contentdb, so, worth my time imho
05:23 Wuzzy minimal update*
05:23 sofar yep
05:24 sofar just put it there and make it shiny later ;)
05:24 Wuzzy frankly, i was just WAY too busy with trying out shiny 5.0.0 features and putting them into MCL2
05:24 Wuzzy sofar: i am more concerned about factual correctness of tutorial texts
05:26 sofar sneak worked
05:26 sofar lol
05:26 hiccup_ k, i installed 0.4.16 and tutorial works, why didn't you think i should install older version?
05:30 Wuzzy yes, in 0.4.16 the tutorail still works
05:31 hiccup_ didn't you say i shouldn't install older minetest tho?
05:31 Wuzzy just be a little patient. 5.0.0 compability will come VERY soon
05:33 hiccup_ you'll have to tell my 6 year old :)  i promised her tonight...  thanks for the tutorial and helping us realize why we couldn't get it working!  signing off for tonight, i'm sure we'll be back :)
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05:44 Wuzzy oh
05:44 Wuzzy there's still an old on_mapgen_init inside...
05:47 Wuzzy sofar: how to update this line properly?:
05:47 Wuzzy minetest.set_mapgen_params({mgname="singlenode", water_level=-31000, chunksize=(tutorial.sector_size/16)})
05:47 Wuzzy i am a bit worried about mgname and chunksize? can i use these names in seT_mapgen_setting, too?
05:47 Wuzzy or do i have to use mg_name instead of mgname?
05:49 sofar hiccup_: we know how 6yrs old can be :D
05:50 sofar hmmm, I didn't think those changed but, hey, I could be wrong
05:51 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4021
05:52 sofar Wuzzy: ah so 3 calls to minetest.set_mapgen_setting(name, value, [override_meta])
05:52 sofar 1 for each value
05:52 Wuzzy does it have to be strings?
05:52 Wuzzy i noticed htere is no setting mgname, only mg_name
05:52 Wuzzy holy shite
05:53 Wuzzy console is spammed with LVM warnings like htis one:
05:53 Wuzzy WARNING[Emerge-0]: VoxelManip:calc_lighting called for a non-mapgen VoxelManip object
05:53 Wuzzy is this a problem?
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06:13 Topic for #minetest is now The official Minetest channel | Latest version: 5.0.0 (2019-03-05) | General, player and modder discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: https://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/
06:15 Wuzzy ha
06:15 Wuzzy removing thatt bit of code fixes it. no lighting issues at all. that code was probably pointless
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06:19 Wuzzy sofar: new version tagged, please test!
06:20 Wuzzy i replaced those deprecated functions as well (while I'm at it .... haha)
06:23 Wuzzy will announce tutorial update within the next hour if nothing of catastrophic proportions will happen
06:25 swift110 thats cool Wuzzy
06:26 swift110 Did you decide to make the tutorial available by default? I really don't like that I have to go over the river and through the woods just to install it.
06:26 Wuzzy hhahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
06:26 Wuzzy of course not!! this is minetest
06:27 Wuzzy but not my fault :/ aks the core devs why
06:28 swift110 Wuzzy: ah, shucks
06:29 swift110 Hopefully they will see what I wrote. It really is a pain in the butt to install the tutorial and I feel like it would help adoption to include it
06:32 benrob0329 swift110: its worth noting that the most recent version of Minetest has a content store
06:33 benrob0329 So one the tutorial subgame has 5.0 compatibility it can be but a few clicks away
06:47 norkle yeee!
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07:06 Wuzzy sofar: Tutorial 3.0.0 uploaded to content DB. waiting for approval by rubenwardy or whoever is responsible for this.
07:06 Wuzzy ok "upload" was a lie. i just needed to give it a commit ID. thats really awesome!!
07:07 Wuzzy i am superbly impressed in how streamlined and conveniente the process of "updating a thing" in the content db is. it just works. rubenwardy, you made an excellent job! :)
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07:41 Wuzzy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22337
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07:57 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: HPChange Reason: Fix push after free, and type being overwritten (#8359) 1e3e4fb https://git.io/fhjwL (2019-03-12T07:56:56Z)
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07:59 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Fix cast from const by accessing string data directly (#8354) 38f6e7a https://git.io/fhjwm (2019-03-12T07:58:02Z)
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11:15 powerolive hi
11:20 powerolive ...
11:20 powerolive no chinese channel
11:24 powerolive should it be#minetest-cn or #minetest-zh
11:26 powerolive afk?
11:29 Emerald2 That would be up to the devs.
11:31 powerolive ...
11:31 Emerald2 They can't be here 24/7. People have jobs, families, the need for sleep...
11:33 powerolive i wonder why they donot support android4.0.4
11:34 powerolive most apps support that
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11:35 powerolive ...
11:36 Emerald2 I know nothing about that.
11:37 powerolive do you still on hometownserver
11:38 Emerald2 No because hometown closed down.
11:38 Emerald2 Hey nerzhul you about?
11:38 powerolive ...openbsd still0.4.17.1
11:39 powerolive back to archlinux
11:40 powerolive why i cannot use my touchpad to play minetest i do not like a mouse
11:40 powerolive s.t.a.l.k.e.r support that
11:45 Emerald2 Can you compile minetest? Then you won't have to wait for a package to be available.
11:48 powerolive ok
11:48 powerolive but i cannot compile a mouse driver
11:54 * powerolive hi
11:55 powerolive how to shout in minetest
11:55 powerolive use /me?
11:55 powerolive i cannot use /shout
11:57 powerolive no
11:58 * powerolive no
11:59 Emerald2 You want to talk in game?
11:59 powerolive i want to shout in game
11:59 Emerald2 I don't think that's a thing.
12:00 p_gimeno "shout" in minetest terms means to talk to all players no matter their distance
12:00 p_gimeno but you can type: /me shouts: "I AM SHOUTING"
12:00 powerolive i want it to show like***powerolive shouts***
12:01 powerolive so i type /me is shouting
12:01 Emerald2 But isn't that what happens when you press t and type something?
12:01 p_gimeno only if you have the shout privilege
12:02 Emerald2 Shout just lets you talk in game tho?
12:02 p_gimeno yes
12:02 Emerald2 No shout, can't talk.
12:02 powerolive no it shows<powerolive>:me is shouting if i do not have /me
12:03 powerolive ok
12:04 powerolive i can shout in ctf now
12:04 powerolive :)
12:06 powerolive does minetesthosting update to 5.0.0
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12:07 Emerald2 Ask minetesthosting.
12:07 powerolive2 k9 mail use up my network
12:08 powerolive2 what
12:08 powerolive2 i am powerolive2
12:09 powerolive2 what's the 2
12:09 powerolive2 bye
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15:54 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Drop GUIConfirmRegistration::m_address unused field e22a69d https://git.io/fhjyf (2019-03-12T15:53:21Z)
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16:01 JDCodeIt Hi all, anyone care to discuss issue #6771 today?
16:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6771 -- pathfinding: unnecessary error
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16:11 JDCodeIt We could also take the discussion to the dev channel if it's too technical
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17:13 nri Hello
17:18 nri Hello Nezrok
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17:30 nri rubenwardy: I saw the capitalism game your working on for minetest. I love it can wait till its released! :p
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18:08 nri opps
18:11 FreeFull Are there some cool mod bundles/modpacks for minetest?
18:11 FreeFull Comparable to the minecraft ones
18:11 VanessaE dreambuilder :)
18:11 VanessaE </shameless plug>
18:11 nri Dreambuilder is a great mod :)
18:13 FreeFull It's been so long since I've played minetest
18:14 FreeFull I still remember playing on cm55's server
18:14 FreeFull Eh, I don't think the second letter was an m
18:14 FreeFull celeron55's
18:16 nri i play on RedCat
18:17 nri At times also on Digital Farms and VE dreambulder Creative
18:19 FreeFull I still love how you don't need to install anything to join any server because of how mods wok
18:19 FreeFull work*
18:20 FreeFull Are all the servers on 5.0.0 now?
18:21 benrob0329 Not all of them, but most of the good ones afaik
18:21 benrob0329 Any that aren't will be shortly
18:22 FreeFull I could imagine people arguing that 62,000 blocks out isn't far enough, compared to minecraft's millions
18:22 benrob0329 Ive never heard of an entire world being filled
18:22 benrob0329 Even large, older servers only seem to go out a few KM
18:23 FreeFull I guess for minetest it's not a problem. It is a problem for very active minecraft servers
18:24 FreeFull Especially with the nether allowing 8x faster travel than overworld
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18:24 FreeFull ( Or even ways to distribute players to be far away from each other)
18:25 benrob0329 But we also have a lot of vertical space, so one could have layered mapgen as well
18:26 FreeFull Something like WAILA would be nice
18:27 benrob0329 Besides, if it becomes a problem MT will likely be able to switch to..what was it 32-bit real numbers? Then we'd be fine
18:27 twoelk there's allready a mod for stacking realms
18:27 benrob0329 And have a tone more space up and down as well
18:27 benrob0329 *ton
18:27 FreeFull I have to admit minecraft's vertical limit is annoying
18:28 twoelk one reason I stopped building there
18:29 benrob0329 You though 64km was a lot of headroom? Prepare for...some much larger number I'm sure
18:33 nri What servers do u guys play?
18:35 FreeFull Another fun thing: The most taxing minetest modpacks are still much better than vanilla minecraft
18:38 Calinou vanilla Minecraft isn't really demanding by today's standards
18:38 Calinou also, while Minetest's performance seems to have improved in 5.0.0, Minecraft (especially with OptiFine) runs very well on modern hardware
18:39 Calinou people were happy with 512×512 maps in Minecraft Indev by the way :P
18:39 Calinou (the largest size allowed back then, IIRC)
18:39 FreeFull Calinou: RAM-wise, I've noticed the 1.14 snapshots are using a lot of it
18:39 Calinou the only area where Minetest wins is RAM usage
18:40 Calinou which may or may not be important depending on your hardware (it's probably more important on servers)
18:40 FreeFull Also Optifine can make performance significantly worse too, depending
18:40 Calinou either way, I keep OptiFine because it lets you disable many silly things :)
18:41 FreeFull XisumaVoid had pretty poor FPS around MumboJumbo's base until he removed optifine (and he wasn't using shaders or anything)
18:41 FreeFull MumboJumbo's base has a *lot* of glass and other transparent blocks though
18:43 twoelk looking around in or at a jungle can still be rather demanding on the hardware in minetest
18:43 Calinou that's the same in Minecraft
18:43 Calinou lots of transparent blocks whose faces can't be merged will lower performance
18:44 FreeFull I don't think 1.14 has any fps improvements, but at least they finally optimised the lighting engine
18:44 FreeFull In 1.13 and below you can very easily lag out a whole server using just a platform up high, and a sticky piston attached to a clock
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19:06 Ingar there's 1.14?
19:07 Ingar (not released yet, crawling back under rock)
19:07 Ingar I'd better update my MT server to 5.0.0 ;)
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19:10 Ingar just for the record, mt runs fine on my ARM VPS, mc ran like crap
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21:02 scr267 I just upgraded my server to 5.1.0 and for some odd reason, the minimap is no longer enabled... oddly enough, it was working on a cloned vm of the exact same game.
21:08 p_gimeno the minimap is disabled by the default MTG
21:08 p_gimeno you need to craft a map to see the minimap, or enter creative mode
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21:10 jluc i updated and couldnt use "advanced trains". I immediately realised i had updated to 5.1 so i uninstalled it and installed 5.0 and "advanced trains" worked fine
21:11 scr267 p_gimeno, yep, found that out... and thanks for the answer :)
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21:31 jas_ Interesting, I wonder what the difference is with advtraims.
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23:50 sodastab aw, sneak elevators are broken now :(
23:53 sodastab RIP my usual mining build style :/
23:53 rubenwardy sodastab: the bug that caused them was fixed, but you can re-enable with a mod
23:54 rubenwardy sodastab: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17734
23:55 sodastab ah
23:56 sodastab was a pretty long-lived "glitch" :P
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