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MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Fix sky bugs when using sun or moon textures (#7918) dcf58a3 https://git.io/fpolF (2018-12-01T05:04:13Z) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] Gael-de-Sailly -> minetest/minetest: Added pitch fly mode (#7817) 327bad2 https://git.io/fpo0j (2018-12-01T09:01:32Z) |
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Genshin |
Hello gentlemen |
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Genshin |
I managed to create a numerical player leveling system for PvE on minetest. |
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| 19:31 |
Xiong |
On VE's suggestion I switched to v6. New world, I spawned one chunk away from a rubber tree... the same tree I couldn't locate in two days' search in a v7 world. |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
what was the problem that made you switch to v6? |
| 19:32 |
Xiong |
Also papyrus, jungle grass, clay within easy reach. |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
ahh I remember |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, the issue will be with technic not v7 in particular |
| 19:33 |
Xiong |
Actually I had thrown up on rubber and gimmed a sapling. It was lack of sulfur. |
| 19:33 |
Xiong |
The issue, I'm sure, lies between v7 and technic. |
| 19:35 |
Xiong |
I exercised prudence and went whizzing around underground before clipping my wings and punching trees. Found sulfur without too much trouble |
| 19:39 |
Xiong |
I'm back to minetest after a lapse of some years but played heavily back when; and I've seen much. Today I saw something utterly new to me: a sea chunk genned under while I swam for clay... and was a huge lava lake. Hiss! Now about 5 mapblocks of obsidian seabed. |
| 19:41 |
Xiong |
This at -22. So v6 is different alright. |
| 19:43 |
Shara |
I'm pretty sure there are lots of v7 servers running technic without trouble. I know I've even found sulfur on some of them... but there also seem to be lots of alternative versions of technic. |
| 19:43 |
Xiong |
No multiplayer practical on Android, Shara. |
| 19:44 |
Xiong |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7525 |
| 19:45 |
Shara |
I'm not sure how that relates to issues with a mod on a certain mapgen. |
| 19:45 |
Xiong |
I guess I could play without chat but that will only lead to injured feelings. |
| 19:45 |
Shara |
I mentioned there being servers where it seems to work fine, only because it's odd you'd then have a problem. |
| 19:46 |
Xiong |
I took your comment as a suggestion. |
| 19:46 |
Shara |
Not really. I'm mostly curious why it works for other people but not for you. |
| 19:46 |
Xiong |
Dunno. |
| 19:48 |
Xiong |
I imagine they can be made to work. If I run a public server, I'm likely to fiddle with my setup. I want my guests happy. |
| 19:49 |
Shara |
How deep have you gone when looking for it? |
| 19:50 |
Xiong |
In fact I'd want to play the world a bit, maybe get a couple buddies to try it, iron out any issues, then zap and fixed-seed restart. |
| 19:51 |
Xiong |
Looking for sulfur? Or rubber? Found neither. Did find one small stand of papyrus toward the end of Day 2. |
| 19:52 |
Shara |
Sulfur. |
| 19:53 |
Xiong |
Then I flew around up top for rubber, about a thousand blocks each way; and flew under for sulfur a thousand down. Nasty business that. |
| 19:54 |
Xiong |
Current world, sulfur in 15 min at -160... near spawn, too. |
| 19:54 |
Shara |
Setting up a little test on v7, because I'm curious |
| 19:57 |
Xiong |
Well, so many random numbers, all tests are inconclusive. I may have just been unlucky. That world, zinc everywhere. This world, no zinc at all yet... but I saw 2 nodes across a wide lava lake at -100. So dunno. Good enough for me. |
| 19:58 |
Shara |
Well, it's hardly inconclusive if I start a game and find it :) |
| 20:01 |
Xiong |
Well, conclusive of what? I expect every mapgen is likely to turn up everything possible, sooner or later. The question is: Will some install comprising X, Y, Z... mods, mapgen, settings... provide sufficient resources before my patience runs out? |
| 20:02 |
Shara |
Of whether they appear in that mapgen... or not. |
| 20:02 |
Xiong |
Technic will always be a stress test because it demands so much of so many things. |
| 20:02 |
Shara |
And first rubber tree found, so that's certainly working fine. |
| 20:03 |
Xiong |
So... how does your setup differ from mine? |
| 20:03 |
Shara |
At a guess, maybe you didn't find the right biome. |
| 20:04 |
Shara |
v6 is unique in that it doesn't use the biome system the other mapgens use... so v6 mixes everything in together. |
| 20:04 |
Xiong |
Studied up, searched hard. On foot, boat, and finally flew |
| 20:04 |
Shara |
In v7 (and other mapgens), you will need to find the biome things actually appear in |
| 20:05 |
Xiong |
Yes but... what exactly do you think I said? |
| 20:05 |
Shara |
You seem to think the mod has an issue as far as v7 goes. |
| 20:05 |
Shara |
But there is no "issue with technic" as you claimed. |
| 20:05 |
Shara |
At least not for this. |
| 20:06 |
Xiong |
That's my suspicion. And... finding a tree doesn't contradict that. |
| 20:06 |
Shara |
So the fact that I, and very many other people, can find these resources, but you can't, means the mod has an issue? |
| 20:06 |
Xiong |
Nothing is that clear cut. |
| 20:07 |
Shara |
Your statement was. |
| 20:07 |
Xiong |
Which? |
| 20:07 |
Shara |
That technic has an issue. |
| 20:08 |
Xiong |
Never said that. |
| 20:08 |
Shara |
(7:33:46 PM) Xiong: The issue, I'm sure, lies between v7 and technic. |
| 20:09 |
Xiong |
"The issue, I'm sure, lies between v7 and technic." That's as much to say as, neither package is to blame. |
| 20:10 |
Shara |
Wanted to try and help you, since it seems likely there is something else involved, but since you seem convinced your assumption is right, will leave you to it. |
| 20:10 |
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| 20:11 |
Xiong |
A tree grows near our homes; the leaves are a nuisance. We look. The tree is on our mutual property line. I'm not at fault, you're not. Nature's fault, the gods' fault, bad luck. I don't care really. |
| 20:12 |
Xiong |
What I said was barely an assumption at all. I just assumed no person involved was evil. |
| 20:12 |
Shara |
I don't know what "evil" has to do with this |
| 20:14 |
Xiong |
Nothing! So... what help did you think I need? |
| 20:14 |
Xiong |
My current world is currently working for me. |
| 20:15 |
Shara |
I've already given up anyway. |
| 20:15 |
Xiong |
Well, next time, please ask first, save effort. |
| 20:16 |
Shara |
Xiong: I made an observation that you misinterpreted! |
| 20:16 |
Xiong |
? |
| 20:16 |
Shara |
I don't need your permission to speak in public channel. |
| 20:17 |
Xiong |
Uh... of course not. I'm just sorry to have misled you into thinking I was in dome sort of jam. I was, but that was several worlds ago. |
| 20:18 |
Shara |
Then don't worry about it and just have fun playing :) |
| 20:18 |
Xiong |
Ah... that's what I've been? |
| 20:18 |
Xiong |
What did I say to set you off? |
| 20:19 |
Shara |
Maybe you could just let it drop. |
| 20:21 |
Xiong |
Didn't know I'd picked anything up. Sorry. I came here to report my sighting of undersea lava; and incidentally my success with v6. Should I have not? |
| 20:23 |
Shara |
You identified a potential issue with a mod. I was curious so looked into it. I find no issueThen you start telling me I should ask before speaking. |
| 20:23 |
Shara |
Yet you won't stop asking me questions. |
| 20:25 |
Xiong |
I'm not trying to insult you. I suggested, kindly, you ask me... if it crosses your mind... if I have a problem... before trying to help me with it. That's not to infringe on whatever freedoms you may expect. It's just an idea. |
| 20:26 |
Xiong |
I've wasted much of my life trying to help others... when either they don't think they have a problem or I don't know what they think it is. |
| 20:27 |
Shara |
I don't need instruction, kindly or otherwise, about when I should help people. I already said I was curious about the "issue". |
| 20:28 |
Shara |
And if you fee trying to help people is a waste of your life, that says more about you than about anything else. |
| 20:28 |
Xiong |
But... this isn't a matter of objective fact, is it? |
| 20:28 |
epoch |
Hi. |
| 20:28 |
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| 20:29 |
Shara |
We're done talking, Xiong. Please leave me alone. |
| 20:29 |
Xiong |
I try harder than ever to be helpful. But now I target my efforts better. That's all. |
| 20:29 |
Xiong |
A little better, not much. |
| 20:29 |
Xiong |
Hi epoch. |
| 20:30 |
epoch |
would minetest:// links be handy? |
| 20:32 |
Xiong |
Explain? |
| 20:33 |
epoch |
like, put <a href="minetest://justtest.duckdns.org:30000/">join justtest in minetest!</a> in a webpage. |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
I personally like the idea of a smart link for Minetest, but I'm unsure on implementation |
| 20:33 |
epoch |
then some link handler would run minetest using --address and --go and --port |
| 20:34 |
epoch |
I have one. :> |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
like: https://play.minetest.net/justtest.duckdns.org/30000/ |
| 20:34 |
epoch |
aww |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
then it would open in Minetest or show the download page if no Minetest found |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
(it would do this by checking schems, so minetest:// would still exist under the hood) |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
would require JS though :( |
| 20:36 |
Xiong |
For more street cred, use XML. |
| 20:36 |
epoch |
now sure how a browser would check for if minetest is installed |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
schemas |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
for detection, at least. Could just show the minetest:// link if JS is disabled |
| 20:37 |
epoch |
I don't have minetest:// registered in my browser because all of them go to some other program that isn't as bulky as a web-browser |
| 20:37 |
rubenwardy |
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24571548/javascript-how-to-detect-if-the-custom-url-scheme-is-available-or-not-availabl |
| 20:38 |
rubenwardy |
it's a shame that there's no apparent standard for this |
| 20:38 |
Xiong |
Sorry I vote no. The concept stalls or breeds and spreads like kudzu. Next, I'm shopping for shoes and fall down a rabbit hole into a fizzy pebble game with an oversexed Alice is trying to sell me anxiety meds or cars. |
| 20:41 |
epoch |
The thing I have is a program like xdg-open |
| 20:41 |
epoch |
which is what a lot of linuxes will default to opening urls with |
| 20:41 |
epoch |
well, if it is started by something other than a browser that thinks it knows better |
| 20:42 |
Xiong |
I don't much care for anything added to basic web technology since the mid 90s. It's not hypertext anymore; it's eyeballs, clickbait, walled gardens, and analytics. |
| 20:43 |
epoch |
yeah. |
| 20:43 |
epoch |
in the bad parts of the internet anyway. |
| 20:44 |
epoch |
if minetest is going to be ran with --go in some automated way I think it would be best to have some way of keeping passwords out of the argument list. |
| 20:44 |
epoch |
I guess this is going to cause someone to try to make minetest ask for a password if one isn't supplied. |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
yes, that would be the correct implementation |
| 20:45 |
Xiong |
People often ask me if ABC or XYZ is a dangerous neighborhood. I say, SF is a City; all neighborhoods are somewhat dangerous. Union Square is much riskier than Lower Haight |
| 20:45 |
epoch |
The thing I have just asks for a password if it isn't in a url, then passed it to minetest using --password-file <(ask pass) |
| 20:46 |
epoch |
passes* |
| 20:46 |
Xiong |
No passwords! |
| 20:46 |
Xiong |
Passwords suck. |
| 20:47 |
epoch |
which is why the thing I made first checks secret-service for a minetest password for the url and uses that if it exists. :> |
| 20:47 |
* epoch |
clicks link. goes straight to minetest server. |
| 20:48 |
rubenwardy |
https://www.troyhunt.com/heres-why-insert-thing-here-is-not-a-password-killer/ |
| 20:48 |
rubenwardy |
Xiong ^ |
| 20:48 |
rubenwardy |
relevant |
| 20:48 |
Xiong |
Authentication should be transparent to the user. I see a friend, he doesn't ask for the secret word before I'm allowed to get a beer. |
| 20:48 |
epoch |
Xiong: have you heard of ident? |
| 20:48 |
epoch |
requires trusting the host first though. |
| 20:49 |
Xiong |
Trust nobody! |
| 20:49 |
epoch |
heh |
| 20:49 |
epoch |
is there authentication without trust? |
| 20:50 |
rubenwardy |
you can't trust IP addresses |
| 20:50 |
epoch |
not even if they're inside ipsec? |
| 20:50 |
rubenwardy |
not sure about that |
| 20:50 |
Xiong |
Public key shows the way. |
| 20:52 |
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| 20:53 |
Xiong |
Ideally, no trust should ever be given. I exchange with you... stuff: words, cash, services, info. Over time we gain confidence in each other. The only thing each needs to know is who the other is and that the exchange is secure against tampering. |
| 20:54 |
Xiong |
Even so, nothing's perfect! |
| 20:55 |
johnnyjoy |
Anyone running minetestserver on Alpine Linux 3.8 in a container using the Postgresql backend? |
| 20:56 |
Xiong |
Minetest requires no password system. On first join we can swap keys and later, verify. No user interaction needed. |
| 20:57 |
epoch |
but then you need to keep your keys with you if you ever want to connect |
| 20:57 |
epoch |
and if you lose your key you lose the account |
| 20:57 |
epoch |
which is why I still use passwords for ssh |
| 20:58 |
Xiong |
But that's always true. Lose your keys, lose your car. |
| 20:58 |
epoch |
car keys can be remade |
| 20:58 |
epoch |
or you can hotwire a car |
| 20:58 |
johnnyjoy |
A nice option would be to allow some servers to direct clients to use https based auth using the built in curl. |
| 20:59 |
epoch |
heh. make minetest use pam authentication modules? |
| 20:59 |
johnnyjoy |
Imagine if an MT client could leverage an existing user base, like the minetest forums for authing users. |
| 20:59 |
epoch |
(dunno how it'd work for windows users though) |
| 20:59 |
rubenwardy |
you could already do that by creating accounts from a web interface only |
| 21:00 |
rubenwardy |
but the issue would be directing users from the game to the interface |
| 21:00 |
rubenwardy |
you could instead create accounts on the website when creating a user in game |
| 21:00 |
Xiong |
The real key to a car is your passport. Lose everything else and you can identify yourself in court, get your car back. |
| 21:00 |
rubenwardy |
so bidirectional account creation |
| 21:00 |
epoch |
are there custom login-failed messages? |
| 21:00 |
rubenwardy |
Don't think so |
| 21:00 |
johnnyjoy |
I though that MT could only use SRP passwords? |
| 21:01 |
Xiong |
Lose your passport, you may have the devil of a time establishing identity. |
| 21:01 |
epoch |
I don't have a passport. |
| 21:02 |
Xiong |
Okay epoch so... how can you prove you're you? |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
well, to log in to the account on the web when it was created in-game, you'd need to set a password to unlock it |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
but for the other direction, you could just do SRP |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
wait |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
nevermind |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
well, to log in to the account on the web when it was created in-game, the server would just do SRP again |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
for the other direction, it would do SRP on the password |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
this kinda ruins SRP though |
| 21:03 |
johnnyjoy |
SRP is important when using unencrypted UPS. |
| 21:04 |
johnnyjoy |
Sorry UDP |
| 21:04 |
Xiong |
Fun but I gotta go scout clay... or no alloys! Bye. |
| 21:04 |
johnnyjoy |
However is excludes existing communities. |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:05 |
johnnyjoy |
There should be an option for https based auth. |
| 21:05 |
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| 21:10 |
epoch |
--password-file <(curl https://the.minetest/server/givemekey.cgi?user=derp) |
| 21:10 |
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| 21:13 |
epoch |
do you mean with a client certificate? |
| 21:19 |
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| 23:26 |
paramat |
!tell Xiong mgv6 is a very boring mapgen. the problem lies with technic and moretrees not yet being updated for the newer mapgens (all of them except mgv6). in mgv7 you can make biomes smaller to have papyrus and junglegrass closer, and clay is everywhere |
| 23:26 |
MinetestBot |
paramat: I'll pass that on when Xiong is around |
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| 23:40 |
paramat |
!tell Xiong 1000 nodes is a very small distance, only 4 mins walk. gameplay is better when you don't immediately find resources, gives it adventure and challenge. mgv6 has no hills higher than y = 47, no rivers, lacks most biomes and flora |
| 23:40 |
MinetestBot |
paramat: I'll pass that on when Xiong is around |
| 23:40 |
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