IRC log for #minetest, 2017-10-21

Time	Nick	Message
00:21		IhrFussel left #minetest
00:25		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest
01:50		CalebDavis joined #minetest
02:22		behalebabo joined #minetest
02:53		Billre left #minetest
03:53		ssieb joined #minetest
04:12		swift110 joined #minetest
04:30		soloojos joined #minetest
06:29		gorilla joined #minetest
07:10		lisac joined #minetest
07:48	gorilla	Hey all. I'm running up a person minetest server btu whenever I run minetest-mapper, I'm getting numerous errors about block, such as : Error at (-47,-7,7): ord() expected a character, but string of length 0 found
07:50		Telesight joined #minetest
07:51		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
07:56		Krock joined #minetest
07:56		asl97 joined #minetest
08:15	swift110	hey Krock long time no see
08:17	Krock	hi swift110
08:43		Alchemical joined #minetest
09:30		derixithy\|afk joined #minetest
09:32		deltasquared joined #minetest
09:36		Darcidride joined #minetest
09:57		m712 joined #minetest
09:58	m712	is it normal for minetest to push the limits of my GPU? my WM becomes really laggy once i start playing minetest even though it shows 18% CPU usage, and i need to switch to xfwm4
10:01		troller joined #minetest
10:11		deltasquared joined #minetest
10:13		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
10:18	sfan5	>asks question
10:18	sfan5	>leaves 10 minutes later
10:20	Krock	>not familiar with IRC
10:21	deltasquared	so does that mean we'll get whoever it was on in a few days expecting to see the answer to his question in the backlog? :P
10:29		Fixer joined #minetest
10:30		proller joined #minetest
10:32		deltasquared left #minetest
10:35		m712 joined #minetest
10:35	Krock	well, great. deltasquared ^
10:38	Krock	m712, usually it's the other way around: heavy CPU use but almost nothing in the GPU
10:43		LazyJ joined #minetest
10:44		dgeary2 joined #minetest
10:48		swift110 joined #minetest
10:53		Megaf joined #minetest
11:00	m712	huh
11:01	m712	my CPU is an i7-4790 but my GPU is radeon hd 5670
11:01	m712	my GPU is my bottleneck. lol
11:05	sfan5	sounds like broken wm if it becomes laggy with increased gpu usage
11:07		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
11:09		Sockbat joined #minetest
11:11		zyabin101 joined #minetest
11:13	Sockbat	Hi everyone. On my 0.5.0 server the players appear to be stuck half-way in the ground. They can move around freely and from the players' perspective it looks normal but from an external perspective the player's top half is visible and stuck in the ground. Any solutions please?
11:15	Krock	update minetest_game
11:15	Krock	or better: sync the minetest_game history with the 0.5.0 server version you use
11:16	Krock	if you want to host a server for 0.4.x clients, you should wait for 0.4.17 and use the latest stable (0.4.16) to host the server
11:17	Krock	^ saves trouble and time
11:18	Sockbat	Thanks for your response Krock. I will try that.
11:22	Krock	!next
11:22	MinetestBot	Another satisfied customer. Next!
11:22	Sockbat	Haha
11:27	m712	sfan5: GPU intensive rather than broken
11:27	m712	it's compiz
11:27	m712	lol
11:28	sfan5	huh
11:28	m712	it's a really nice compositing WM
11:33	Krock	even if it poops gold, it's not usable if the GPU tries to cook eggs
11:34	Krock	so a WM (or maybe graphics driver) issue, but not ours
11:48	m712	not your issue i know
11:48	m712	maybe compiz's compositing + minetest becomes too much to the GPU to handle, it is an old GPU after all
11:49	m712	and turning off compositing makes it go away
11:49		Jordach joined #minetest
11:53	Krock	old? Minetest also works with an integrated chip from 2004/2005
11:54	Krock	surely without shaders in that case
12:03	Calinou	I don't think it does
12:03	Calinou	integrated graphics were terrible in the mid-2000s
12:03	Calinou	they didn't even support hardware T&L!
12:03	Calinou	(Intel began supporting this in 2006)
12:03	Calinou	even then, you had terrible drivers back then, regardless of the OS
12:04	Calinou	m712: what's your graphics card?$
12:04	Calinou	-$
12:05	Calinou	don't use compositing on old GPUs, especially while playing games
12:05	Calinou	even on new GPUs, it is advised to disable it when gaming
12:05	Calinou	(lower input lag, higher FPS)
12:05	Calinou	thanks Linux, on Windows this isn't necessary, in fact you can't even do it anymore on 10 :P
12:12		nowhere_man joined #minetest
12:23		lumberJ joined #minetest
12:23		deltasquared joined #minetest
12:34		Wuzzy joined #minetest
12:47		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
13:04		lumberJ joined #minetest
13:23		Beton joined #minetest
13:23		Beton joined #minetest
13:24		Alchemical joined #minetest
13:36		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
13:54		nowhereman joined #minetest
13:59		Misha joined #minetest
14:00	Guest13946	to
14:09	MinetestBot	[git] numberZero -> minetest-mods/mesecons: Fix typo f78937b https://git.io/vdbNM (2017-10-21T14:05:09Z)
14:17		XeonSquared joined #minetest
14:18		ZenonSeth joined #minetest
14:22	ZenonSeth	hello
14:25		nowhereman joined #minetest
14:29		bas080 joined #minetest
14:32	Krock	hi
14:33	ZenonSeth	would this be the place to ask minetest mod-development questions? is there a channel for that? or just forums?
14:35	sfan5	just ask here
14:35	sfan5	or on the forums
14:36	ZenonSeth	ok, well might ask there too
14:37	ZenonSeth	but i was wondering cause i can't find, is there a way to dynamically change digging time? i can't quite find how exact digging time is determined, i'm assuming its using both tool-capabilities and some node info..
14:37	ZenonSeth	by dynamically i mean something like is there a way to get something to make a callback to a function that can return some number to change dig time
14:42	Krock	tool caps can't be changed dynamically yet. but the PR to implement that is pending
14:43	ZenonSeth	oh i see ok
14:44	ZenonSeth	i imagine the workaround right now would be to replace tool in players hand when satrting to use it, but then i'd have to register every single tool capability i can think of
14:48		deltasquared joined #minetest
15:00		soloojos joined #minetest
15:01	sfan5	indeed
15:06		lumberJ joined #minetest
15:10		sooojos joined #minetest
15:16		Beton_ joined #minetest
15:19	ZenonSeth	ok, related to that, what exactly is it in tool capabilities that determines dig time?
15:20		nowhereman joined #minetest
15:20	ZenonSeth	is it the times stuff, so like times={[1]=4.00, [2]=1.50, [3]=1.00} ? the wiki isn't 100% clear on what those mean
15:21	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: have you tried the lua_api.txt file in your MT install?
15:21	deltasquared	though, I personally couldn't get my head around that myself either
15:21	deltasquared	there's a section titled "Groups" in there (note the cap G for searching it)
15:22	ZenonSeth	i've read it, but kinda forgot about it when i found dev.minetest.net
15:22	ZenonSeth	looking now
15:22	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: well bear in mind that dev.minetest.net is considered secondary
15:22	ZenonSeth	alright
15:23	deltasquared	always the trouble with wikis... :P
15:23	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: out of curiousity, why you looking up the groups mechanism, you defining a new tool/node?
15:23	ZenonSeth	i did send a few things to the minetest-doc channel to update them :P
15:24	Krock	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10927
15:24	ZenonSeth	oh thx Krock
15:24		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
15:24	Krock	!next
15:24	MinetestBot	Another satisfied customer. Next!
15:25	ZenonSeth	as to why i was looking, i was thinking of how to make mining harder, any experienced player can dig down pretty fast
15:25	deltasquared	hrm
15:25	ZenonSeth	so i was thining of making dig times take longer as depth increases
15:25	deltasquared	I don't think that's possible somehow
15:25	ZenonSeth	and/or requiring new tools
15:25	ZenonSeth	yeah, node properties are kidna set in stone
15:26	ZenonSeth	not very dynamic, so i can't override the default stone to be "harder" based on depth
15:26	deltasquared	I don't actually know if code in minetest_game or in the engine itself handles node digging behaviour
15:26	Krock	deltasquared, both
15:26	ZenonSeth	i had a look at some of both, not that im expert
15:26	ZenonSeth	ah but Krock sounds like he is :)
15:27	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: though consider, that it doesn't make sense to make it harder if it's the same old stone, have you looked into making deeper stone a different node perhaps?
15:27	ZenonSeth	hm, no that i havent'
15:27	deltasquared	I can't see a straightforward way to get the terrain gen to do that for you though, off the top of my head
15:27	deltasquared	using voxelmanip seems a tad hacky
15:28	ZenonSeth	as far as i can tell, terrain gen is done in c++, and you CAN override generated blocks with your own in lua
15:28	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: can you do so based on depth though?
15:28	ZenonSeth	so it may be possible i think
15:28	ZenonSeth	yes, you know the position of the node blocks being generated... i think
15:28	ZenonSeth	i'm new to the api
15:28	deltasquared	doing so based on the world depth would require some kind of call into lua, which (unless it's per-chunk, not sure) would be very ouch
15:29	deltasquared	Krock: halp
15:29	Krock	keeping it below 10ms per mapblock will be very hard. It's also not quite efficient to replace everything
15:29	ZenonSeth	there are custom generators written in lua though, so i thought you could completely overwrite any generated blocks?
15:29	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: it should be pointed out that C++ and lua mapgens are mutually exclusive, and the latter just ain't as fast
15:30	ZenonSeth	ofc
15:30	Krock	no, you can adapt or overwrite a mapblock. just pay attention what comes first and which code is executed afterwards
15:30	ZenonSeth	well
15:30	deltasquared	there is some mechanism for on_mapgen hooks or something, and you could go over existing terrain with voxelmanip say and replace all the stone
15:31	ZenonSeth	yeah probably not too fast
15:31	deltasquared	the example that comes to mind is technic's sulfur placement, it does a voxelmanip to replace any stone near lava sources with sulfur ore
15:32	deltasquared	there it is, minetest.register_on_generated
15:32	ZenonSeth	yeah thats the one ive seen too
15:33	ZenonSeth	need to read more on this stuff though
15:33	deltasquared	hmm, voxelmanip, the only time you'll ever see the internal numerical node IDs
15:34		paramat joined #minetest
15:34	ZenonSeth	hmm
15:35	paramat	no need just use the ore placement API to create layers of different stone types
15:35	ZenonSeth	actually that might not do any good?
15:35	ZenonSeth	the answer krock linked seems to imply thjat the dig time is strictly determined by the tool_capabilities groups
15:35	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: no, it depends on the node groups too
15:35	ZenonSeth	> Quote:
15:35	ZenonSeth	[1]=4.00
15:35	ZenonSeth	Nodes with the group
15:35	ZenonSeth	cracky = 1
15:35	ZenonSeth	require 4.0s to dig
15:36	deltasquared	you can't mine obsidian with a wooden pickaxe for instance
15:36	ZenonSeth	yeah, but grups don't go "higher" than 1
15:36	ZenonSeth	yes
15:36	deltasquared	I forget how it works, but my point is you can make a tougher node.
15:36	deltasquared	you can figure out that part later.
15:37	ZenonSeth	i need to experiment, tougher as in, can't be dug by lesser tools seems possible, but tougher as in "needs more time to be dug" seems impossible as dig-time seems kinda tool-determined
15:37	ZenonSeth	seems possbile = is entirely possible as you said
15:38	Krock	I'd rather wait for settable tool caps
15:38	deltasquared	Krock: are we definitely getting that now? I saw it getting approval
15:38	Krock	all other attempts are somewhat hackish and inefficient
15:39	deltasquared	settable tool caps for something like this though seems like a nice way to get a tool stuck in a permanent handicapped state, unless the settable caps are not saved
15:39	deltasquared	but rather set on each load
15:49	ZenonSeth	Krock: on a kinda related note, is there any feature request for a callback to lua on a start digging node time? The serverpackethandler stuff i saw already has dig-start prevention for stuff like interact priv or digging too far, could it also do a call to lua mods to bugger out early?
15:51	ZenonSeth	im assuming someone else has probably thought of this too, its just current protection mods are all on after-dig,and don't work well with laggy clients
15:52		Kurtzmusch joined #minetest
15:52	deltasquared	I personally just want use-and-hold callbacks on items, so on_use_start and on_use_end (maybe with the ability to pass data between the two, via the first returning an object... though you might also want that to return a true/false to allow use start or not)
15:53	deltasquared	ZenonSeth: well, in all fairness protected area plugins on minecraft servers don't work well with lag either, so it's not like we're missing out at least ;)
15:54	ZenonSeth	deltasquared: true, but minecraft modding is more like a hack, minetest is designed to be modded, so what im saying is minecraft has much lower standards, minetest can do a lot better :)
15:54	deltasquared	shots fired. fair enough
15:57	ZenonSeth	that wasn't meant to be shots, if you play and enjoy minecraft too
15:57	ZenonSeth	just saying what i think is the case
16:01	asl97	ZenonSeth: the different in modding is rather huge afaik, you can pretty much override anything in minecraft from what i understand. I wouldn't really call it lower standards
16:03	ZenonSeth	ok, fair enough, and i haven't gotten into minecraft modding either so can't really say
16:03	ZenonSeth	though i guess my point was more that (at least last i saw) minecraft doesn't support modding officially, while minetest kind of is all about modding
16:08	deltasquared	asl97: that's with forge installed mind, not exactly base game... but I'm not really going to get into an argument over it, MC vs MT has a certain degree of apples vs oranges, despite both being voxel games
16:10	ZenonSeth	deltasquared: its true, and i wasn't even comparing them till you mentioned it :P
16:10	Krock	ZenonSeth, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2453
16:10	Krock	that's when digging starts
16:11	ZenonSeth	yes, but it doesn't ask whether digging can continue does it?
16:11	ZenonSeth	aka if i return false, it won't stop digging
16:11	Krock	no, but you can revoke interact from the player
16:12	Krock	maybe interesting: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4369
16:12	ZenonSeth	hmm, ok i think someone might have tried that on the forum with a mod.. should test to see how it works
16:13		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest
16:14	asl97	Krock: are you suggesting to abuse the interact privs for tool digging check?
16:14	Krock	if you set stone on very easily breakable, you could use the prediction to let players dig it many times until it's finally mined
16:14	Krock	asl97, YES. Isn't it beautiful?
16:15	Krock	I can't even explain. It's so a e s t h e t i c
16:15	ZenonSeth	the dig prediction is cool for a custom block to build in protected areas with
16:15	asl97	deltasquared: forge makes it easier to create mod and provide an api which allow mods to work together, but there was a time before forge, if you consider direct modding as base game.
16:17	deltasquared	asl97: I remember "that time", even though I don't want to >_>
16:18	ZenonSeth	this was the one someone tried: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=18621
16:18	ZenonSeth	revokes interact from players when digging protected nodes
16:20	ZenonSeth	it uses register_on_punchnode like krock said
16:20		nac joined #minetest
16:25	deltasquared	I detect a potential timing window
16:26	deltasquared	like, if it's a torch... interesting. I would hope that dig completion would only occur on return to the event loop
16:26	deltasquared	so in that case revoking the priv temporarily would be guaranteed to be done before the user can dig the node... hopefully.
16:27	deltasquared	I love race conditions, they make my life so interesting -_-
16:30	ZenonSeth	there's no race condition for the interact priv, its returned when user lets go of LMB
16:34	ZenonSeth	mod works fine with torches too
16:34	ZenonSeth	or wait
16:35	ZenonSeth	eh not exactly fine
16:35	ZenonSeth	but i think its meant more for blocks, to stop people from breaking protected blocks with lag
16:40		Krock joined #minetest
16:46	ZenonSeth	yeah, the only downside of using register_on_punchnode is that it doesn't work outright with nodes that define on_punch
16:46	ZenonSeth	i mean using register_on_punchnode to revoke privs
16:54		nac joined #minetest
16:58	Kurtzmusch	hey, i have a sugestion for the engine: cilindrical or spherical fog
17:02	ZenonSeth	isn't fog already spherical? at least it looks like it is with shaders on (tbh i have not seen without shaders)
17:03	ThomasMonroe	it should be
17:03		paramat left #minetest
17:06		Sockbat joined #minetest
17:06	Kurtzmusch	ill try to turn on shaders
17:07	Kurtzmusch	oh, my bad
17:07	Kurtzmusch	its much better this way !
17:07	ZenonSeth	even with shaders, fog looks speherical on my machine but dunno
17:08	ZenonSeth	tone mapping makes it nicer still, esp. at night, in my opinion
17:09	ThomasMonroe	XD my machine can't do the shaders, tooo slow
17:09	Kurtzmusch	on my machine if shaders are off the fog is flat in fornt of the player so you can see farther on the sides of the screen
17:10	ZenonSeth	yea, ive seen that type of fog too, its depth based fog i think? but it doesn't do that even without shaders for me :P
17:11	ZenonSeth	cool feature i never knew, the +/- keys (on numpad too) change your viewing range while in-game
17:12	Kurtzmusch	are you running 4.16?
17:12	ZenonSeth	no 0.4.17
17:12		Megaf joined #minetest
17:13	Kurtzmusch	oh, maybe thats why
17:13	ZenonSeth	maybe
17:13	rubenwardy	0.4.17 doesn't exist yet
17:13	ZenonSeth	but if you can run with shaders, it's nicer anyway
17:13	Kurtzmusch	also im on windows
17:13	rubenwardy	so you're running 0.4.16
17:13	rubenwardy	oops
17:14	rubenwardy	0.4.17-dev, which is 0.4.16
17:14	ZenonSeth	ok... top of my window says 0.4.17-dev-stuff
17:14	Kurtzmusch	i think hes running those non oficial versions
17:14	ZenonSeth	yeah im on linux, so i had to compile it myself
17:15	ThomasMonroe	same here
17:16	ZenonSeth	rubenwardy: whatever head of stable-0.4 is on git
17:16	rubenwardy	it's 0.4.17-dev which is exactly the same as 0.4.16
17:16	rubenwardy	blame nerzhul if you find that confusing
17:17	ZenonSeth	well good to know at least
17:25		swift110 joined #minetest
17:40		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest
17:50		s0r00t joined #minetest
18:00		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest
18:04		nac joined #minetest
18:10		deltasquared joined #minetest
18:11		nac joined #minetest
18:12		_nac_ joined #minetest
18:19		Kurtzmusch joined #minetest
18:21		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
18:31		juhdanad joined #minetest
18:31		juhdanad left #minetest
19:06		Fuchs joined #minetest
19:11		CalebDavis joined #minetest
19:24		Taose joined #minetest
19:26	loganrun	so I started with host server, in create mode. how do I grant others fly privilege
19:27	red-001	/grant <player name> fly
19:29	Calinou	I believe I can /grant <player name> fly
19:30	Krock	I thought it was /grant <player name> fly
19:31	loganrun	ok got it, also shift doesn't seem to go down on mac
19:31	loganrun	I mean in free fly when I press shift on mac the player does not decend
19:32	Krock	ESC -> Change Keys
19:32	Krock	or open that pause menu in another way if your macbook doesn't have the esc key
19:33		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest
19:33	loganrun	ok
19:43		deltasquared joined #minetest
19:48		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
19:55		swift110 joined #minetest
20:16		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
21:57		_nac_ joined #minetest
22:34		Mati^1 joined #minetest
22:34	Mati^1	hi All
22:40	Mati^1	I am sorry for my language!!!!!!! hope you remember! RBA Maciej Kasatkin! I would like to go on his dead! on his memorial monument. his achievements in the game! and not only! Minetest! also SamQoupe Game!
22:42	Mati^1	on the monument I would like commemorate his achievements in programming amd other things that will be associated with him
22:42	rubenwardy	VanessaE
22:43	Mati^1	Please think about this
22:43	VanessaE	wat
22:43	Mati^1	hi Vanessa
22:43	VanessaE	hi
22:44	Mati^1	condolence! :(
22:44	VanessaE	I think he's saying RBA should be commemorated in the game/engine, e.g. "this release it dedicated to..." but did't we already do that before?
22:44	VanessaE	is*
22:44	rubenwardy	I think they're asking for some works for an eulogy / lasting IRL memorial
22:44	rubenwardy	*words
22:45	VanessaE	hm, well nothing much I can do to help that.
22:45	rubenwardy	oh, I thought you were the closest to RBA. Nevermind
22:45	rubenwardy	I never talked to him, so can't really say anything
22:46	Mati^1	I do not know about it! I would like this person to be remembered somewhere
22:46	VanessaE	I was only as close to him as anyone else, but since I'm no core dev and have no resources to speak of, I can do nothing useful hgere.
22:46	VanessaE	here*
22:47	VanessaE	(besides, I have someone else's memorial on my mind these days)
22:47	Mati^1	:/ sorry but my englich ist not good germany or polnisch
22:47	VanessaE	it's okay, Mati.
22:47	Mati^1	:/ thx
22:48	Calinou	VanessaE: I think Mati^1 means that on RealBadAngel's commemorative plate, his contributions to Minetest are remembered
22:48	Calinou	maybe?
22:48	VanessaE	I guess that's reasonable but I don't see how anyone here can help with that
22:49	Mati^1	Vanessa I am very sorry for your husband's death RBA Thank you very much
22:49	VanessaE	thanks, Mati. :-/
22:50	Mati^1	Dziekuje!!! Thx!!!
22:51	Mati^1	my son very often returns to RBA Games
22:52	Mati^1	my new nick in games
22:52	Mati^1	RBD
22:52	VanessaE	I'm sure RBA would be happy that people are still enjoying his work
22:52	Mati^1	RealBadDevil
22:53	Mati^1	StarWars II and I
22:54	red-001	Mati^1, btw there is a german minetest channel at #minetest-de
22:54	Mati^1	He had a very bad family sisters do not remember just uncle
22:54	Mati^1	Thx
23:01		BBmine joined #minetest
23:06		YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
23:37		srifqi joined #minetest
23:50		CalebDavis joined #minetest

← Previous day | Channels | #minetest index | Today | Next day → | Google Search | Plaintext