Time  Nick         Message
07:48 gorilla      Hey all. I'm running up a person minetest server btu whenever I run minetest-mapper, I'm getting numerous errors about block, such as : Error at (-47,-7,7): ord() expected a character, but string of length 0 found
08:15 swift110     hey Krock long time no see
08:17 Krock        hi swift110
09:58 m712         is it normal for minetest to push the limits of my GPU? my WM becomes really laggy once i start playing minetest even though it shows 18% CPU usage, and i need to switch to xfwm4
10:18 sfan5        >asks question
10:18 sfan5        >leaves 10 minutes later
10:20 Krock        >not familiar with IRC
10:21 deltasquared so does that mean we'll get whoever it was on in a few days expecting to see the answer to his question in the backlog? :P
10:35 Krock        well, great. deltasquared ^
10:38 Krock        m712, usually it's the other way around: heavy CPU use but almost nothing in the GPU
11:00 m712         huh
11:01 m712         my CPU is an i7-4790 but my GPU is radeon hd 5670
11:01 m712         my GPU is my bottleneck. lol
11:05 sfan5        sounds like broken wm if it becomes laggy with increased gpu usage
11:13 Sockbat      Hi everyone. On my 0.5.0 server the players appear to be stuck half-way in the ground. They can move around freely and from the players' perspective it looks normal but from an external perspective the player's top half is visible and stuck in the ground. Any solutions please?
11:15 Krock        update minetest_game
11:15 Krock        or better: sync the minetest_game history with the 0.5.0 server version you use
11:16 Krock        if you want to host a server for 0.4.x clients, you should wait for 0.4.17 and use the latest stable (0.4.16) to host the server
11:17 Krock        ^ saves trouble and time
11:18 Sockbat      Thanks for your response Krock. I will try that.
11:22 Krock        !next
11:22 MinetestBot  Another satisfied customer. Next!
11:22 Sockbat      Haha
11:27 m712         sfan5: GPU intensive rather than broken
11:27 m712         it's compiz
11:27 m712         lol
11:28 sfan5        huh
11:28 m712         it's a really nice compositing WM
11:33 Krock        even if it poops gold, it's not usable if the GPU tries to cook eggs
11:34 Krock        so a WM (or maybe graphics driver) issue, but not ours
11:48 m712         not your issue i know
11:48 m712         maybe compiz's compositing + minetest becomes too much to the GPU to handle, it *is* an old GPU after all
11:49 m712         and turning off compositing makes it go away
11:53 Krock        old? Minetest also works with an integrated chip from 2004/2005
11:54 Krock        surely without shaders in that case
12:03 Calinou      I don't think it does
12:03 Calinou      integrated graphics were terrible in the mid-2000s
12:03 Calinou      they didn't even support hardware T&L!
12:03 Calinou      (Intel began supporting this in 2006)
12:03 Calinou      even then, you had terrible drivers back then, regardless of the OS
12:04 Calinou      m712: what's your graphics card?$
12:04 Calinou      -$
12:05 Calinou      don't use compositing on old GPUs, especially while playing games
12:05 Calinou      even on new GPUs, it is advised to disable it when gaming
12:05 Calinou      (lower input lag, higher FPS)
12:05 Calinou      thanks Linux, on Windows this isn't necessary, in fact you can't even do it anymore on 10 :P
14:00 Guest13946   to
14:09 MinetestBot  02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest-mods/mesecons: Fix typo 13f78937b https://git.io/vdbNM (152017-10-21T14:05:09Z)
14:22 ZenonSeth    hello
14:32 Krock        hi
14:33 ZenonSeth    would this be the place to ask minetest mod-development questions? is there a channel for that? or just forums?
14:35 sfan5        just ask here
14:35 sfan5        or on the forums
14:36 ZenonSeth    ok, well might ask there too
14:37 ZenonSeth    but i was wondering cause i can't find, is there a way to dynamically change digging time? i can't quite find how exact digging time is determined, i'm assuming its using both tool-capabilities and some node info..
14:37 ZenonSeth    by dynamically i mean something like is there a way to get something to make a callback to a function that can return some number to change dig time
14:42 Krock        tool caps can't be changed dynamically yet. but the PR to implement that is pending
14:43 ZenonSeth    oh i see ok
14:44 ZenonSeth    i imagine the workaround right now would be to replace tool in players hand when satrting to use it, but then i'd have to register every single tool capability i can think of
15:01 sfan5        indeed
15:19 ZenonSeth    ok, related to that, what exactly is it in tool capabilities that determines dig time?
15:20 ZenonSeth    is it the times stuff, so like times={[1]=4.00, [2]=1.50, [3]=1.00} ? the wiki isn't 100% clear on what those mean
15:21 deltasquared ZenonSeth: have you tried the lua_api.txt file in your MT install?
15:21 deltasquared though, I personally couldn't get my head around that myself either
15:21 deltasquared there's a section titled "Groups" in there (note the cap G for searching it)
15:22 ZenonSeth    i've read it, but kinda forgot about it when i found dev.minetest.net
15:22 ZenonSeth    looking now
15:22 deltasquared ZenonSeth: well bear in mind that dev.minetest.net is considered secondary
15:22 ZenonSeth    alright
15:23 deltasquared always the trouble with wikis... :P
15:23 deltasquared ZenonSeth: out of curiousity, why you looking up the groups mechanism, you defining a new tool/node?
15:23 ZenonSeth    i did send a few things to the minetest-doc channel to update them :P
15:24 Krock        https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10927
15:24 ZenonSeth    oh thx Krock
15:24 Krock        !next
15:24 MinetestBot  Another satisfied customer. Next!
15:25 ZenonSeth    as to why i was looking, i was thinking of how to make mining harder, any experienced player can dig down pretty fast
15:25 deltasquared hrm
15:25 ZenonSeth    so i was thining of making dig times take longer as depth increases
15:25 deltasquared I don't think that's possible somehow
15:25 ZenonSeth    and/or requiring new tools
15:25 ZenonSeth    yeah, node properties are kidna set in stone
15:26 ZenonSeth    not very dynamic, so i can't override the default stone to be "harder" based on depth
15:26 deltasquared I don't actually know if code in minetest_game or in the engine itself handles node digging behaviour
15:26 Krock        deltasquared, both
15:26 ZenonSeth    i had a look at some of both, not that im expert
15:26 ZenonSeth    ah but Krock sounds like he is :)
15:27 deltasquared ZenonSeth: though consider, that it doesn't make sense to make it harder if it's the same old stone, have you looked into making deeper stone a different node perhaps?
15:27 ZenonSeth    hm, no that i havent'
15:27 deltasquared I can't see a straightforward way to get the terrain gen to do that for you though, off the top of my head
15:27 deltasquared using voxelmanip seems a tad hacky
15:28 ZenonSeth    as far as i can tell, terrain gen is done in c++, and you CAN override generated blocks with your own in lua
15:28 deltasquared ZenonSeth: can you do so based on depth though?
15:28 ZenonSeth    so it may be possible i think
15:28 ZenonSeth    yes, you know the position of the node blocks being generated... i think
15:28 ZenonSeth    i'm new to the api
15:28 deltasquared doing so based on the world depth would require some kind of call into lua, which (unless it's per-chunk, not sure) would be very ouch
15:29 deltasquared Krock: halp
15:29 Krock        keeping it below 10ms per mapblock will be very hard. It's also not quite efficient to replace everything
15:29 ZenonSeth    there are custom generators written in lua though, so i thought you could completely overwrite any generated blocks?
15:29 deltasquared ZenonSeth: it should be pointed out that C++ and lua mapgens are mutually exclusive, and the latter just ain't as fast
15:30 ZenonSeth    ofc
15:30 Krock        no, you can adapt or overwrite a mapblock. just pay attention what comes first and which code is executed afterwards
15:30 ZenonSeth    well
15:30 deltasquared there is some mechanism for on_mapgen hooks or something, and you *could* go over existing terrain with voxelmanip say and replace all the stone
15:31 ZenonSeth    yeah probably not too fast
15:31 deltasquared the example that comes to mind is technic's sulfur placement, it does a voxelmanip to replace any stone near lava sources with sulfur ore
15:32 deltasquared there it is, minetest.register_on_generated
15:32 ZenonSeth    yeah thats the one ive seen too
15:33 ZenonSeth    need to read more on this stuff though
15:33 deltasquared hmm, voxelmanip, the only time you'll ever see the internal numerical node IDs
15:34 ZenonSeth    hmm
15:35 paramat      no need just use the ore placement API to create layers of different stone types
15:35 ZenonSeth    actually that might not do any good?
15:35 ZenonSeth    the answer krock linked seems to imply thjat the dig time is strictly determined by the tool_capabilities groups
15:35 deltasquared ZenonSeth: no, it depends on the node groups too
15:35 ZenonSeth    > Quote:
15:35 ZenonSeth    [1]=4.00
15:35 ZenonSeth    Nodes with the group
15:35 ZenonSeth    cracky = 1
15:35 ZenonSeth    require 4.0s to dig
15:36 deltasquared you can't mine obsidian with a wooden pickaxe for instance
15:36 ZenonSeth    yeah, but grups don't go "higher" than 1
15:36 ZenonSeth    yes
15:36 deltasquared I forget how it works, but my point is you *can* make a tougher node.
15:36 deltasquared you can figure out that part later.
15:37 ZenonSeth    i need to experiment, tougher as in, can't be dug by lesser tools seems possible, but tougher as in "needs more time to be dug" seems impossible as dig-time seems kinda tool-determined
15:37 ZenonSeth    seems possbile = is entirely possible as you said
15:38 Krock        I'd rather wait for settable tool caps
15:38 deltasquared Krock: are we definitely getting that now? I saw it getting approval
15:38 Krock        all other attempts are somewhat hackish and inefficient
15:39 deltasquared settable tool caps for something like this though seems like a nice way to get a tool stuck in a permanent handicapped state, unless the settable caps are not saved
15:39 deltasquared but rather set on each load
15:49 ZenonSeth    Krock: on a kinda related note, is there any feature request for a callback to lua on a start digging node time? The serverpackethandler stuff i saw already has dig-start prevention for stuff like interact priv or digging too far, could it also do a call to lua mods to bugger out early?
15:51 ZenonSeth    im assuming someone else has probably thought of this too, its just current protection mods are all on after-dig,and don't work well with laggy clients
15:52 deltasquared I personally just want use-and-hold callbacks on items, so on_use_start and on_use_end (maybe with the ability to pass data between the two, via the first returning an object... though you might also want that to return a true/false to allow use start or not)
15:53 deltasquared ZenonSeth: well, in all fairness protected area plugins on minecraft servers don't work well with lag either, so it's not like we're missing out at least ;)
15:54 ZenonSeth    deltasquared: true, but minecraft modding is more like a hack, minetest is designed to be modded, so what im saying is minecraft has much lower standards, minetest can do a lot better :)
15:54 deltasquared shots fired. fair enough
15:57 ZenonSeth    that wasn't meant to be shots, if you play and enjoy minecraft too
15:57 ZenonSeth    just saying what i think is the case
16:01 asl97        ZenonSeth: the different in modding is rather huge afaik,  you can pretty much override anything in minecraft from what i understand. I wouldn't really call it lower standards
16:03 ZenonSeth    ok, fair enough, and i haven't gotten into minecraft modding either so can't really say
16:03 ZenonSeth    though i guess my point was more that (at least last i saw) minecraft doesn't support modding officially, while minetest kind of is all about modding
16:08 deltasquared asl97: that's with forge installed mind, not exactly base game... but I'm not really going to get into an argument over it, MC vs MT has a certain degree of apples vs oranges, despite both being voxel games
16:10 ZenonSeth    deltasquared: its true, and i wasn't even comparing them till you mentioned it :P
16:10 Krock        ZenonSeth, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2453
16:10 Krock        that's when digging starts
16:11 ZenonSeth    yes, but it doesn't ask whether digging can continue does it?
16:11 ZenonSeth    aka if i return false, it won't stop digging
16:11 Krock        no, but you can revoke interact from the player
16:12 Krock        maybe interesting: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4369
16:12 ZenonSeth    hmm, ok i think someone might have tried that on the forum with a mod.. should test to see how it works
16:14 asl97        Krock: are you suggesting to abuse the interact privs for tool digging check?
16:14 Krock        if you set stone on very easily breakable, you could use the prediction to let players dig it many times until it's finally mined
16:14 Krock        asl97, YES. Isn't it beautiful?
16:15 Krock        I can't even explain. It's so    a e s t h e t i c
16:15 ZenonSeth    the dig prediction is cool for a custom block to build in protected areas with
16:15 asl97        deltasquared: forge makes it easier to create mod and provide an api which allow mods to work together,  but there was a time before forge, if you consider direct modding as base game.
16:17 deltasquared asl97: I remember "that time", even though I don't want to >_>
16:18 ZenonSeth    this was the one someone tried: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=18621
16:18 ZenonSeth    revokes interact from players when digging protected nodes
16:20 ZenonSeth    it uses register_on_punchnode like krock said
16:25 deltasquared I detect a potential timing window
16:26 deltasquared like, if it's a torch... interesting. I would hope that dig completion would only occur on return to the event loop
16:26 deltasquared so in that case revoking the priv temporarily would be guaranteed to be done before the user can dig the node... hopefully.
16:27 deltasquared I *love* race conditions, they make my life *so* interesting -_-
16:30 ZenonSeth    there's no race condition for the interact priv, its returned when user lets go of LMB
16:34 ZenonSeth    mod works fine with torches too
16:34 ZenonSeth    or wait
16:35 ZenonSeth    eh not exactly fine
16:35 ZenonSeth    but i think its meant more for blocks, to stop people from breaking protected blocks with lag
16:46 ZenonSeth    yeah, the only downside of using register_on_punchnode is that it doesn't work outright with nodes that define on_punch
16:46 ZenonSeth    i mean using register_on_punchnode to revoke privs
16:58 Kurtzmusch   hey, i have a sugestion for the engine: cilindrical or spherical fog
17:02 ZenonSeth    isn't fog already spherical? at least it looks like it is with shaders on (tbh i have not seen without shaders)
17:03 ThomasMonroe it should be
17:06 Kurtzmusch   ill try to turn on shaders
17:07 Kurtzmusch   oh, my bad
17:07 Kurtzmusch   its much better this way !
17:07 ZenonSeth    even with shaders, fog looks speherical on my machine but dunno
17:08 ZenonSeth    tone mapping makes it nicer still, esp. at night, in my opinion
17:09 ThomasMonroe XD my machine can't do the shaders, tooo slow
17:09 Kurtzmusch   on my machine if shaders are off the fog is flat in fornt of the player so you can see farther on the sides of the screen
17:10 ZenonSeth    yea, ive seen that type of fog too, its depth based fog i think? but it doesn't do that even without shaders for me :P
17:11 ZenonSeth    cool feature i never knew, the +/- keys (on numpad too) change your viewing range while in-game
17:12 Kurtzmusch   are you running 4.16?
17:12 ZenonSeth    no 0.4.17
17:13 Kurtzmusch   oh, maybe thats why
17:13 ZenonSeth    maybe
17:13 rubenwardy   0.4.17 doesn't exist yet
17:13 ZenonSeth    but if you can run with shaders, it's nicer anyway
17:13 Kurtzmusch   also im on windows
17:13 rubenwardy   so you're running 0.4.16
17:13 rubenwardy   oops
17:14 rubenwardy   0.4.17-dev, which is 0.4.16
17:14 ZenonSeth    ok... top of my window says 0.4.17-dev-stuff
17:14 Kurtzmusch   i think hes running those non oficial versions
17:14 ZenonSeth    yeah im on linux, so i had to compile it myself
17:15 ThomasMonroe same here
17:16 ZenonSeth    rubenwardy: whatever head of stable-0.4 is on git
17:16 rubenwardy   it's 0.4.17-dev which is exactly the same as 0.4.16
17:16 rubenwardy   blame nerzhul if you find that confusing
17:17 ZenonSeth    well good to know at least
19:26 loganrun     so I started with host server, in create mode. how do I grant others fly privilege
19:27 red-001      /grant <player name> fly
19:29 Calinou      I believe I can /grant <player name> fly
19:30 Krock        I thought it was /grant <player name> fly
19:31 loganrun     ok got it, also shift doesn't seem to go down on mac
19:31 loganrun     I mean in free fly when I press shift on mac the player does not decend
19:32 Krock        ESC -> Change Keys
19:32 Krock        or open that pause menu in another way if your macbook doesn't have the esc key
19:33 loganrun     ok
22:34 Mati^1       hi All
22:40 Mati^1       I am sorry for my language!!!!!!! hope you remember! RBA Maciej Kasatkin! I would like to go on his dead! on his memorial monument. his achievements in the game! and not only! Minetest! also SamQoupe Game!
22:42 Mati^1       on the monument I would like commemorate his achievements in programming amd other things that will be associated with him
22:42 rubenwardy   VanessaE
22:43 Mati^1       Please think about this
22:43 VanessaE     wat
22:43 Mati^1       hi Vanessa
22:43 VanessaE     hi
22:44 Mati^1       condolence! :(
22:44 VanessaE     I think he's saying RBA should be commemorated in the game/engine, e.g. "this release it dedicated to..." but did't we already do that before?
22:44 VanessaE     is*
22:44 rubenwardy   I think they're asking for some works for an eulogy / lasting IRL memorial
22:44 rubenwardy   *words
22:45 VanessaE     hm, well nothing much I can do to help that.
22:45 rubenwardy   oh, I thought you were the closest to RBA. Nevermind
22:45 rubenwardy   I never talked to him, so can't really say anything
22:46 Mati^1       I do not know about it! I would like this person to be remembered somewhere
22:46 VanessaE     I was only as close to him as anyone else, but since I'm no core dev and have no resources to speak of, I can do nothing useful hgere.
22:46 VanessaE     here*
22:47 VanessaE     (besides, I have someone else's memorial on my mind these days)
22:47 Mati^1       :/ sorry but my englich ist not good germany or polnisch
22:47 VanessaE     it's okay, Mati.
22:47 Mati^1       :/ thx
22:48 Calinou      VanessaE: I think Mati^1 means that on RealBadAngel's commemorative plate, his contributions to Minetest are remembered
22:48 Calinou      maybe?
22:48 VanessaE     I guess that's reasonable but I don't see how anyone here can help with that
22:49 Mati^1       Vanessa I am very sorry for your husband's death RBA Thank you very much
22:49 VanessaE     thanks, Mati. :-/
22:50 Mati^1       Dziekuje!!! Thx!!!
22:51 Mati^1       my son very often returns to RBA Games
22:52 Mati^1       my new nick in games
22:52 Mati^1       RBD
22:52 VanessaE     I'm sure RBA would be happy that people are still enjoying his work
22:52 Mati^1       RealBadDevil
22:53 Mati^1       StarWars II and I
22:54 red-001      Mati^1, btw there is a german minetest channel at #minetest-de
22:54 Mati^1       He had a very bad family sisters do not remember just uncle
22:54 Mati^1       Thx