| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Advanced settings: Reformat noise parameter format example 0b3a8de https://git.io/vQ1Uk (2017-07-11T00:15:01Z) |
| 00:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Biomes/decorations/ores: Make relative to 'water_level' setting 8299e4b https://git.io/vQ1UI (2017-07-11T00:14:24Z) |
| 00:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Add 'plantlike_rooted' drawtype ef285b2 https://git.io/vQ1UL (2017-07-11T00:02:22Z) |
| 00:23 |
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| 02:19 |
AntumDeluge |
I know that there are functions for unregistering items & chat commands, but I don't see anything for entities. Is there a way to unregister/override entities in the game? |
| 02:52 |
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| 04:51 |
Hijiri |
I didn't know there were functions for unregistering items and chat commands |
| 04:51 |
Hijiri |
there is a way to override entities though |
| 04:51 |
Hijiri |
minetest.override_entity |
| 04:51 |
Hijiri |
AntumDeluge: ^ |
| 04:51 |
Hijiri |
check it out in lua_api.txt |
| 04:52 |
Hijiri |
oh wait |
| 04:52 |
Hijiri |
maybe it doesn't exist |
| 04:52 |
Hijiri |
you could directly modified the entity definition though |
| 04:53 |
Hijiri |
You can get the definition table by doing minetest.registered_entities["modname:entityname"] |
| 05:23 |
AntumDeluge |
Hijiri, thank you that is a possibility. Originally I wanted to unregister an entity then re-register it with a new name. I suppose since minetest.registered_entities is a table of entity definitions I could just remove the entry after I've copied the definition. Not sure if that's the best way though. |
| 05:26 |
AntumDeluge |
I think, to keep things simple though, I will just modify the original entity rather than deleting it. |
| 05:28 |
AntumDeluge |
Do you know if retrieving a definition from minetest.registered_entities creates a reference or copy? |
| 05:30 |
AntumDeluge |
So if I wanted to add an attribute to a registered entity, could I just do "minetest.registered_entities["modname:entityname"].new_attribute = value"? |
| 05:30 |
AntumDeluge |
If I put it into a local variable would that reference it or make a copy? E.g. "local variable = minetest.registered_entities["modname:entityname"]" |
| 05:40 |
Hijiri |
AntumDeluge: table values in Lua are all references (in the pointer sense, not C++ references) to table data |
| 05:40 |
Hijiri |
so table values in Lua are really "pointer to table" values |
| 05:41 |
Hijiri |
so it would affect the one in the registered_entities table |
| 05:41 |
AntumDeluge |
Okay. And the same thing if I put it into a local variable? Changes to local variable are reflected in minetest.registered_entities entry? |
| 05:41 |
Hijiri |
AntumDeluge: Unregistering the entity is a bad idea because it will break mods that spawn that entity |
| 05:42 |
Hijiri |
AntumDeluge: the local variable is just a pointer to the same table data |
| 05:42 |
Hijiri |
the entry in registered_entities is a pointer |
| 05:42 |
Hijiri |
you are copying a pointer to the same data |
| 05:42 |
AntumDeluge |
Okay. I'm glad to hear that. |
| 06:10 |
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| 06:11 |
GreenDimond |
Why is this happening? https://pasteboard.co/GAoNIBT.png |
| 06:12 |
GreenDimond |
It is supposed to be a simple round hole, but it ends up in a mess... |
| 06:12 |
GreenDimond |
Inside Blender it looks just fine. |
| 06:16 |
GreenDimond |
Too bad Jordach isnt here |
| 06:16 |
GreenDimond |
He'd know |
| 06:31 |
GreenDimond |
I shall ask tomorrow |
| 06:45 |
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| 06:50 |
hisforever |
Hi I'd like to know how to correct these http://imgur.com/a/w7LF9 ? |
| 07:00 |
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| 07:16 |
AntumDeluge |
hisforever, the "Could not load image" errors just look like missing texture images. |
| 07:17 |
AntumDeluge |
Guessing from the look of the descriptions, those images should be included with a mod called "inventory_sorter". |
| 07:19 |
AntumDeluge |
Looks like "inventory_sorter" is included in the "dreambuilder" modpack: https://github.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_modpack/tree/master/inventory_sorter |
| 07:20 |
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| 07:22 |
AntumDeluge |
I'm not sure about the other errors. |
| 07:33 |
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| 07:46 |
hisforever |
Should |
| 07:47 |
hisforever |
i dpwnload invebntory_Sorter? |
| 07:48 |
hisforever |
download |
| 07:49 |
hisforever |
AntumDeluge: Thanks |
| 07:54 |
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| 07:55 |
hisforever |
Is there a wat to get Smaller nodes? the ones that are in my game look so huge? |
| 08:16 |
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| 09:57 |
iisu |
Is there a way to recreate terrain from the seed exactly? |
| 09:58 |
Raven262 |
Yes, generate a new world witrh the same seed, you'll get the same world |
| 10:00 |
iisu |
The caves generate diffently though. |
| 10:01 |
iisu |
I guess I have to downgrade MT to the version used when the map was originally generated. |
| 10:02 |
iisu |
I tried generating it several times and looks like the caves are always the same, yet there are different than on the old map. |
| 10:05 |
Raven262 |
I thought same seed is used for the caves every time |
| 10:05 |
Raven262 |
I mean same seed that is applied to the main seed |
| 10:07 |
hisforever |
what exactly are the seeds in the make new world? |
| 10:08 |
Raven262 |
They are random numbers used for map generation. |
| 10:11 |
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| 10:13 |
hisforever |
ty Ravien |
| 10:16 |
hisforever |
I sure would like to know how to fix these errors http://imgur.com/a/VYBGv ? |
| 10:19 |
Raven262 |
For first part, there is a mod that is trying to replace nodes with some unregistered nodes (possibly a mod is missing), second part is about a missing texture (or textures), i guess you ripped off a mod from somewhere and it doesn't work? |
| 10:20 |
hisforever |
ty raven |
| 10:20 |
iisu |
Yes, Raven, the caves are the same every time I generate them but still they're completely different from the map I try to recreate. |
| 10:20 |
iisu |
The original map is a year or two old. |
| 10:22 |
hisforever |
Raven262 I think Im'm getting things screw up by installing mods then taking them out because there not working? |
| 10:23 |
hisforever |
so should I remove all mods, but will that work? |
| 10:24 |
Raven262 |
Possibly. |
| 10:25 |
hisforever |
ok ty |
| 10:25 |
hisforever |
have to go God bless |
| 10:28 |
iisu |
I guess this is because newer versions of Minetest add new blocks to the mapgen so the mapgen has to rearrange everything and produce different result even though the seed is the same. |
| 10:30 |
Raven262 |
I don't think so |
| 10:30 |
Raven262 |
The mapgen is still generating the same terrain, the biome specific nodes are added afterwards |
| 10:31 |
Raven262 |
Which means, if a new biome was added, or if the biome heat/humidity settings were tweaked, you would still get the same terrain shape but different arrangement of biomes. |
| 10:32 |
Raven262 |
The biome-specific decorations are added afterwards, like trees , grass, papyrus and other. |
| 10:35 |
iisu |
Yes, the terrain is all the same except for caves, new resources and biomes. |
| 10:49 |
iisu |
Can I somehow stop the generator from spawning dirt, gravel and sand piles in mountains? Cause they don't look good. |
| 10:50 |
Raven262 |
No you can't do it specificaly for mountains |
| 10:50 |
Raven262 |
Mapgen doesn't know where are the mountains |
| 10:51 |
iisu |
Just anything up from a certain level would do. |
| 10:53 |
Raven262 |
Modify the registration of the gravel and dirt blob ores, set its height to what you desire. |
| 10:53 |
Raven262 |
Its in default mod, mapgen.lua |
| 10:53 |
Raven262 |
first registered ores are blob ores (to avoid scatters in blobs) |
| 10:59 |
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| 11:00 |
iisu |
Better now. The caves didn't change though so my theory that they're generated with resources like dirt and gravel was wrong. |
| 11:02 |
iisu |
Last question: how do I import chunks from a local save of the map received from server? |
| 11:03 |
iisu |
No, I totally don't want to steal server's map :P |
| 11:05 |
Raven262 |
You want to save the loaded chunks from the server? |
| 11:05 |
Raven262 |
enable_local_map_saving = true in minetest.conf |
| 11:06 |
iisu |
That's what I've done and now I want to copy certain chunks to the new map I generated with the same seed. |
| 11:07 |
Raven262 |
... |
| 11:07 |
Raven262 |
Probably you could open the saved map and generate it further with the same seed |
| 11:07 |
Raven262 |
But i have no idea how to do it |
| 11:07 |
Raven262 |
Wait |
| 11:07 |
Raven262 |
Maybe |
| 11:08 |
Raven262 |
If you set the map's seed somewhere in the world's foled, or in minetest.conf idk where it is stored |
| 11:08 |
Raven262 |
and set the mapgen too |
| 11:08 |
Raven262 |
You would get the same world generated over the save |
| 11:11 |
iisu |
But this way it would copy all the chunks I saved, most of which I don't want. |
| 11:12 |
Raven262 |
Well, i doubt you can copy the specific chunks :P |
| 11:12 |
iisu |
The map is stored as a database, I just need to find the chunks by their position and copy them to the new database somehow. |
| 11:13 |
Raven262 |
I do not know how that works, sorry. |
| 11:13 |
iisu |
Also, when I copy the map to a new world it generates new biomes over it. So all buildings end up covered with dirt and trees. |
| 11:14 |
Raven262 |
That is cause mapgen and seed mismatch |
| 11:15 |
iisu |
Yeah, I've tried it before but without matching seed. |
| 11:18 |
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| 11:23 |
iisu |
Nope, the biomes still generate, only it is a little bit less agressive now. |
| 11:23 |
iisu |
Some of the cobble also turned into mossy cobble without a reason, lol. |
| 11:26 |
iisu |
One of my buildings rely on the caves arrangement which is now all changed. :/ |
| 11:26 |
jin_xi |
mudflow? seen this happening on top of mod generated stone structures |
| 11:29 |
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| 11:32 |
iisu |
I think I'll figure it out, except for the biomes and caves going wild. Thanks for help. |
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jin_xi |
if i remeber correctly the solution to mapgen covering stone with earth and vegetation was to create an alias for stone and use that |
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| 15:17 |
rocky1138 |
I have a question about BlockPlanet. It appears that they've relicensed Minetest to be GPL3.0. Did they need permission from the copyright holders of Minetest to do that? Or because the Minetest license says LGPL or later are they able to do that without permission? |
| 15:20 |
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| 15:20 |
AndDT |
rocky1138: first link in google says that guys don't have the rights to relicense LGPL -> GPL3 |
| 15:21 |
AndDT |
It's a difficult question. Any lawyers in channel? :) |
| 15:22 |
rocky1138 |
Honestly I google'd and duckduckgoed for 30 minutes before coming here :( |
| 15:22 |
rocky1138 |
My Google-fu must be rusty. |
| 15:22 |
Krock |
why haven't you binged it? |
| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
rocky1138, pretty sure you can't just relicense lgpl to gpl |
| 15:23 |
* Krock |
looks at freeminer |
| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
idk haven't read the full license |
| 15:24 |
rocky1138 |
I don't think you can without the permission of the copyright holders, either. But I'm confused about the "LGPL 2 _or later_" |
| 15:24 |
sfan5 |
or later means you can upgrade the license to lgpl 3 |
| 15:25 |
Krock |
where "upgrade" = more restricted |
| 15:26 |
rocky1138 |
The reason I'm asking is there's a person on YouTube doing really good work on BlockPlanet but he says he can't backport his work to Minetest and Minetest can't use it because BlockPlanet is GPL3. |
| 15:26 |
rocky1138 |
And I was confused as to how a fork of Minetest wouldn't be able to benefit from user contributions. |
| 15:26 |
Krock |
that's BlockMen and he used to be a Minetest dev |
| 15:26 |
rocky1138 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBMOG_dTbWo |
| 15:26 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 15:26 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: Dynamic shadows with shaders! (proof of concept for Minetest :P) - YouTube |
| 15:26 |
Krock |
304 |
| 15:28 |
sfan5 |
assuming you can just relicense lgpl to gpl, then yes indeed minetest can't merge those improvements |
| 15:28 |
rocky1138 |
sfan5 yes, but what I'm wondering is did BlockPlanet have permission to relicense Minetest to GPL3? |
| 15:28 |
Krock |
unless the author allows it or, in a imaginary ideal case, where the author provides a PR. But most likely none of this will happen |
| 15:33 |
sfan5 |
rocky1138, 3. You may opt to apply the terms of the ordinary GNU General Public License instead of this License to a given copy of the Library. [...] Once this change is made in a given copy, it is irreversible for that copy, so the ordinary GNU General Public License applies to all subsequent copies and derivative works made from that copy. |
| 15:33 |
sfan5 |
(http://www.gnu.de/documents/lgpl-2.1.en.html) |
| 15:37 |
sfan5 |
tl;dr yes |
| 15:41 |
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| 15:48 |
rocky1138 |
Very interesting. That explains the move from LGPL to GPL. What about the upgrade from GPL2 to GPL3? Is that explained by the "or later" in the original license? My gut says yes. |
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| 15:50 |
sfan5 |
the 'or later' in the original license only refers to lgpl |
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| 15:52 |
rocky1138 |
So we still don't have any way to move from GPL2 to GPL3 without permission from the original copyright holders. |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
depends |
| 15:55 |
sfan5 |
if the gpl includes the (or later) clause by default, then the move would be to gpl2 (+ or later) from where you could move to gpl3 |
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| 17:39 |
GreenDimond |
Why is this happening? https://pasteboard.co/GAoNIBT.png |
| 17:40 |
GreenDimond |
In Blender it's a normal cut-out hole, but when in Minetest it turns to a mess... |
| 17:41 |
sofar |
UV mapping around holes is a problem |
| 17:41 |
sofar |
the best thing to do is to make sure your UV maps never make a U or O shape |
| 17:42 |
sofar |
so triangulize the surface in blender |
| 17:42 |
rocky1138 |
I really wish IRC would show me channel history |
| 17:43 |
rocky1138 |
I lost the conversation about GPL2/GPL3 |
| 17:43 |
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| 17:45 |
GreenDimond |
sofar: what do you mean by triangulize? it's already split in 2.. I need to split it more? |
| 17:48 |
sofar |
you still have U shaped surfaces |
| 17:49 |
GreenDimond |
yes I see that |
| 17:49 |
GreenDimond |
but when I triangulate that is a lot of surfaces.. |
| 17:49 |
sofar |
the problem with a circle hole is that you're gonna need a ton of triangles |
| 17:49 |
sofar |
the outside circle edge is not the problem, it's the inside hole |
| 17:49 |
GreenDimond |
yes I know |
| 17:50 |
GreenDimond |
I added the triangulate modifier |
| 17:50 |
twoelk |
rocky1138: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2017-07-11#i_5006364 |
| 17:50 |
sofar |
yes you'll end up with a ton of triangles if you want to keep the shape |
| 17:50 |
GreenDimond |
how much would that affect performance? |
| 17:50 |
GreenDimond |
if at all |
| 17:50 |
sofar |
if you let blender triangulate it then it should show up OK in minetest |
| 17:50 |
GreenDimond |
so the only problem with the triangles is getting it to look good? |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
nobody cares about 100 triangles or so |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
1000 is over the top though |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
I'd try and keep the triangles to ~100 if you can |
| 17:52 |
GreenDimond |
I am lucky |
| 17:52 |
GreenDimond |
It is just ~98 |
| 17:52 |
GreenDimond |
(added) |
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| 17:52 |
sofar |
the minetest boat used to be 1500 :) |
| 17:53 |
twoelk |
the boat was that edgy? |
| 17:53 |
sofar |
watch my video |
| 17:53 |
sofar |
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiBtPSC5oHVAhWCLmMKHXojAUsQtwIISDAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMQit9BK_Dc0&usg=AFQjCNEmYCW3h-5k2LSFlyrbMDz_nZg6sQ |
| 17:53 |
sofar |
errr, damn google link |
| 17:53 |
sofar |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQit9BK_Dc0 |
| 17:55 |
twoelk |
with no body shading one can't see all them edges anyways :-P |
| 17:55 |
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| 17:55 |
rocky1138 |
twoelk thanks! |
| 17:55 |
rocky1138 |
Has no one ever questioned BlockPlanet's relicensing of Minetest before? I find it hard to believe I'm the only oe. |
| 17:56 |
rocky1138 |
one* |
| 17:56 |
rocky1138 |
maybe Celeron55 doesn't care in the end? |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
it's been a point of contention before |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
the thing is, it's entirely legal |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
you can relicense lgpl-2.1 to something else |
| 17:56 |
GreenDimond |
I didn't even know he relicensed it |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
but never back |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
he relicenses every commit when he pulls |
| 17:57 |
GreenDimond |
wow |
| 17:57 |
rocky1138 |
if it's legal why is it a point of contention? |
| 17:57 |
GreenDimond |
seems like he is advancing minetest faster than the devs :/ |
| 17:57 |
GreenDimond |
BlockPlanet* |
| 17:57 |
sofar |
because any change *he* makes nobody else can merge back into minetest |
| 17:57 |
rocky1138 |
why not relicense minetest as GPL3 and call it a day? |
| 17:57 |
sofar |
only blockmen can submit changes back to minetest under lgpl |
| 17:58 |
sofar |
because you do not negotiate with terrorists |
| 17:58 |
sofar |
his fork is hostile |
| 17:58 |
sofar |
pure and simple |
| 17:58 |
GreenDimond |
... |
| 17:58 |
rocky1138 |
that's a pretty weak argument, based on irrationality |
| 17:59 |
texel |
So question: is the minetest base game in a different repo somewhere? Just built from source, looking to see what I can do to help fix bugs. |
| 17:59 |
celeron55 |
forks tend to die and then you're left with gpl3 code for no good long-term reason |
| 17:59 |
rocky1138 |
it's possible that GPL3 is the right answer for minetest regardless of what blockplanet does. |
| 17:59 |
GreenDimond |
He leaves Minetest just to go make his own game and doesn't even let Minetest use his work. How wude. |
| 17:59 |
sofar |
I've been doing open source professionally for 15+ years |
| 17:59 |
sofar |
that isn't a weak argument |
| 17:59 |
GreenDimond |
Anywhos thanks for the help sofar |
| 17:59 |
GreenDimond |
It worked btw :P |
| 17:59 |
sofar |
the background is a long explanation why forks are fine, but forks like this where licenses change in this way are bad |
| 18:00 |
sofar |
celeron55 is correct and that's the gist of why it's bad |
| 18:00 |
rocky1138 |
is the only reason we are still on lgpl2 is because we don't want to give in to blockplanet? Wouldn't LGPL3 be better for minetest anyway? |
| 18:00 |
celeron55 |
using gpl when forking an lgpl project is basically just an easy way to be hostile, unless you actually are a die-hard copyleft fanatic |
| 18:00 |
sofar |
rocky1138: we can give to blockplanet |
| 18:00 |
sofar |
rocky1138: the other way around is the problem |
| 18:00 |
texel |
Ah. Nevermind. Just need to RTFM. =op |
| 18:00 |
sofar |
any commit in minetest can go into blockplanet |
| 18:00 |
rocky1138 |
yes |
| 18:00 |
sofar |
the other way around, not so much |
| 18:01 |
rocky1138 |
I meant why not just switch to lgpl3 for minetest then everything can be backported right? |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
again |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
because you do not negotiate with terrorists |
| 18:01 |
rocky1138 |
is that the only answer? or is there some other actual reason |
| 18:01 |
AntumDeluge |
sofar, haha! |
| 18:02 |
rocky1138 |
like a problem with lgpl3 etc. |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
essentially you'd let someone else dictate your licensing |
| 18:02 |
celeron55 |
minetest was originally gpl, and i painstakingly switched it from that to lgpl before that was too late |
| 18:02 |
celeron55 |
i'm not going the other way |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
the more free, the better |
| 18:03 |
sofar |
exactly |
| 18:03 |
rocky1138 |
I'm not advocating a switch to GPL3 I'm asking why not LGPL3 |
| 18:03 |
rocky1138 |
and the only answer I'm getting is a kneejerk reaction |
| 18:03 |
rocky1138 |
not some technical reason, etc. |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
that wouldn't change anything |
| 18:03 |
sofar |
gpl3 -> lgpl3 is not OK |
| 18:03 |
rocky1138 |
Ah, okay. that makes sense then |
| 18:03 |
rocky1138 |
that's what I was looking for |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
this isn't kneejerk |
| 18:04 |
* AntumDeluge |
looks up the meaning of "kneejerk" |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
celeron55 knows his licenses |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
if somebody could promise 5 more contributors for the next 10 years if MT switched to gpl, i would do that |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
but nothing proves that would happen |
| 18:05 |
celeron55 |
it would just be the same, but forever under a less free license |
| 18:05 |
sofar |
let's look at it from the other side |
| 18:05 |
sofar |
why, why, did blockmen pick a different license? |
| 18:06 |
sofar |
there can be a few answers |
| 18:06 |
sofar |
1) he didn't know better |
| 18:06 |
sofar |
2) he knew exactly what he was doing |
| 18:06 |
rocky1138 |
sofar this "gpl3 -> lgpl3 is not OK" was all I was looking for |
| 18:06 |
sofar |
in the case of 1) he could have fixed it himself when he did knew better |
| 18:07 |
sofar |
so obviously, he hasn't, and he knew exactly what he was doing |
| 18:07 |
sofar |
so obviously, he doesn't want *his* improvements to go back into minetest |
| 18:07 |
sofar |
not without his permission anyway |
| 18:08 |
AntumDeluge |
What I'm gathering from this conversation is that BlockWorld could potentially draw developers away from Minetest & their work could not be backported to it. Is that accurate? |
| 18:09 |
sofar |
there are some nuances, but essentially, yes |
| 18:09 |
sofar |
only the people who *wrote* the code themselves can relicense it back to lgpl-2.1 |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:10 |
sofar |
blockmen could, with 1 line of text, granting everyone permission to take the code as lgpl-2.1, too |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:11 |
sofar |
considering he accused me of theft a while back, I doubt he ever would |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
BlockPlanet is dead anyway |
| 18:22 |
AntumDeluge |
sofar: Did that have anything to do with mob-engine mod? I had submitted a patch to BlockMen's Creatures Mob Engine mod a while back & was told that it had been abandoned & to open a PR for minetest-mods/mob-engine. |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
AntumDeluge: no, that's just a separate mod, the whole license discussion is irrelevant for that |
| 18:23 |
AntumDeluge |
rubenwardy: Freeminer is dead too, I think (not that it pertains to this conversation). |
| 18:23 |
AntumDeluge |
sofar: I mean about the accusation of theft. |
| 18:24 |
AntumDeluge |
Like, was BlockMen not happy that Creatures Mob Engine had been relabeled to mob-engine? |
| 18:24 |
AntumDeluge |
Or was it BlockMen who actually did that? |
| 18:25 |
AntumDeluge |
Appears that BlockPlanet code hasn't been updated for around 2 years: https://github.com/blockplanet/blockplanet |
| 18:25 |
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| 18:26 |
sofar |
the theft accusation was because I made some trivial code and he had previously written that as well |
| 18:26 |
sofar |
that was minetest, not a mod |
| 18:26 |
AntumDeluge |
Ah, okay. I see what you mean. |
| 18:28 |
AntumDeluge |
Why get offended over that anyway? Doesn't matter who wrote code. It's all copyright The FSF, right? ;) |
| 18:29 |
AntumDeluge |
Kind of a joke, because all copies of the GPL/LGPL say "Copyright Free Software Foundation" ( I really don't understand the licenses). |
| 18:31 |
AntumDeluge |
I use an MIT license for most of my projects because it's "simple". But I don't think it protects from similar situations at all. |
| 18:35 |
red-001 |
if someone wants the features he added in minetest they can just fork minetest |
| 18:35 |
red-001 |
change the license |
| 18:35 |
red-001 |
port the features and then keep it updated |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:44 |
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| 18:46 |
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| 18:47 |
sofar |
AntumD: the "text" of the GPL is copyrighted by itself, and owned by the FSF |
| 18:48 |
sofar |
AntumD: your software is copyrighted by you, not the FSF |
| 18:48 |
sofar |
even if it's licensed under the GPL |
| 18:48 |
red-001 |
so eh what is it released under? |
| 18:49 |
sofar |
#define "what" |
| 18:49 |
red-001 |
what license is GPL released under? |
| 18:49 |
sofar |
not licensed |
| 18:49 |
sofar |
copyrighted |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
"Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. <http://fsf.org/> |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed. |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
" |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
well, technically that is a license statement |
| 18:51 |
red-001 |
for some reason I find that license statement ironic |
| 18:51 |
red-001 |
GPL itself is basically freeware |
| 18:52 |
sofar |
it's actually really important that they did it that way |
| 18:52 |
sofar |
to prevent someone from making a fake GPL license |
| 18:53 |
red-001 |
couldn't they add something like "You are modify this license but you must renamed"? |
| 18:53 |
red-001 |
s/are/can |
| 18:53 |
red-001 |
+it |
| 18:55 |
sofar |
they could, but why would you? |
| 18:56 |
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| 18:57 |
sofar |
I mean, they had some expensive lawyers to write these |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
seems strange to then allow other people to take parts of it |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
and that would just be dangerous anyway |
| 19:19 |
Hijiri |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Derivations |
| 19:19 |
Hijiri |
apparently you can create derivatives if you don't include the preamble |
| 19:20 |
Hijiri |
and rename the license |
| 19:21 |
Hijiri |
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#ModifyGPL |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:31 |
lumidify |
The same thing happened with OpenOffice and LibreOffice - LibreOffice could copy code from OpenOffice but OpenOffice couldn't copy code from LibreOffice because LibreOffice changed its license to the GPL. |
| 19:32 |
AntumDeluge |
That's interesting. Not sure I like the change in licensing, but I was definitely happy about the LibreOffice fork because OpenOffice was dying, & many Win32 builds were being hijacked by malware. |
| 19:33 |
AntumDeluge |
Not that LibreOffice couldn't be hijacked as well. Just need to make sure you get software from a good source. |
| 19:34 |
lumidify |
LaTex FTW! (none of that GUI word processor junk) |
| 19:34 |
lumidify |
:P |
| 19:34 |
AntumDeluge |
Lol! I am clueless as to how to work LaTex. |
| 19:34 |
AntumDeluge |
I can't even figure out how to compile it from source. :) |
| 19:35 |
AntumDeluge |
Always had to find pre-built binaries on Windows machines (luckily I have converted to non-Windows). |
| 19:36 |
AntumDeluge |
But my family still uses Windows. So I have to work on that platform when they need help. Ugh! |
| 19:36 |
lumidify |
It is sort of weird, because there are so many different compilers for it, meaning there isn't really one single piece of software. |
| 19:37 |
lumidify |
I just use whatever is included in my OS's package repositories :) |
| 19:37 |
AntumDeluge |
Aren't there a few different major forks as well? |
| 19:37 |
AntumDeluge |
That's what's great about Linux & FreeBSD & package repositories. |
| 19:37 |
lumidify |
Yeah, I'm not sure about all that - I usually just use the basic pdflatex command, but I know there are many others too (some are better for unicode stuff, etc.) |
| 19:38 |
lumidify |
But I've started to write my papers in LaTex just because it makes things so simple for me - I found a good template online which I can just copy-paste and then write the actual text. |
| 19:39 |
AntumDeluge |
It's funny how when mobile devices started coming about, app stores became popular. Even desktop OSes like Windows 10 have app stores. But Linux operating systems have been using package repositories for as long as I have been using them. |
| 19:39 |
AntumDeluge |
Sorry Minetest devs, if this conversation isn't appropriate for this channel. :*( |
| 19:40 |
kaeza |
don't forget about dumbed down interfaces and those ugly "ribbons" |
| 19:40 |
lumidify |
I know! I find it so annoying that most people don't even know the benefits of package repositories. I can't imagine living without the repositories. |
| 19:40 |
kaeza |
AntumDeluge, nah, this isn't #-dev :P |
| 19:40 |
AntumDeluge |
Phew! :) |
| 19:42 |
lumidify |
I still don't understand how Windows etc. can claim to be easy to use without even having a proper package manager. |
| 19:44 |
AntumDeluge |
Well, Windows 10 does have the Windows Store now. But, I suppose there are differences from an actual package manager. |
| 19:44 |
AntumDeluge |
Now that I think about it, I believe they introduced the Windows Store with 8. |
| 19:45 |
* AntumDeluge |
hates Microsoft because they hate open software & hates Apple because they take advantage of open software but don't give back nor give credit. |
| 19:46 |
lumidify |
The App Store just has a bunch of dumbed down apps, not proper packages like on Linux and BSD |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:48 |
AntumDeluge |
I definitely like the packaging system on Linux/BSD distributions better. |
| 19:49 |
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| 19:51 |
lumidify |
I think people just need to understand how it works to see the benefits - most people simply don't know about anything other than Windows or Mac, so they've never experienced proper package repositories. |
| 19:52 |
AntumDeluge |
Just like they don't know about anything other than Microsoft Office. So, when they try LibreOffice, they complain that it's too hard or doesn't do what they need. :p |
| 19:54 |
lumidify |
Yeah, I always rant about this stuff, but in the end I usually decide it's not worth the effort to try to switch people over. |
| 19:57 |
AntumDeluge |
Exactly. I've given up trying to convince people to switch. It always ends up in a headache for me because I have to teach them how to use it, all the while listening to them complain. |
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| 20:28 |
Calinou |
lumidify: LibreOffice is MPLv2 now |
| 20:28 |
Calinou |
(used to be GPL/LGPLv2) |
| 20:28 |
Calinou |
it is more permissive than the GPL or LGPL |
| 20:28 |
Calinou |
(the copyleft is pretty weak) |
| 20:28 |
lumidify |
Oh, nice. |
| 20:28 |
Calinou |
(same license as eg. Firefox, since MPL = Mozilla Public License) |
| 20:29 |
* lumidify |
hasn't looked at LibreOffice in a while... |
| 20:30 |
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| 21:02 |
xMoskau |
Hey |
| 21:09 |
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| 21:18 |
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| 21:19 |
GreenDimond |
I have a node. I want the node to play a random sound from a list at random intervals, and make sure you have to be at a certain distance to do it. How would this be achieved? |
| 21:19 |
GreenDimond |
*to hear it |
| 21:20 |
KaadmY |
GreenDimond: minetest.sound_play({name = "foo_foosound", pos = player:getpos(), distance = 16}) |
| 21:20 |
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| 21:21 |
sofar |
GreenDimond: several ways of doing this |
| 21:21 |
KaadmY |
Calinou: isn't LibreOffice the little program that couldn't? |
| 21:21 |
sofar |
GreenDimond: abm's could work as a timer mechanism, or a node timer |
| 21:21 |
GreenDimond |
I'll go for the "best" way if any |
| 21:22 |
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| 21:22 |
sofar |
well abm's can be very costly to the server |
| 21:22 |
sofar |
so I prefer node timers myself |
| 21:22 |
GreenDimond |
in which case I dont want abms |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
KaadmY: the program that couldn't what? |
| 21:23 |
GreenDimond |
How would I do it with nodetimers? |
| 21:23 |
GreenDimond |
(sofar) |
| 21:24 |
sofar |
add a on_construct() handler to the node that starts the node timer, and then when the node timer expires make sure to restart it so it keeps firing |
| 21:24 |
sofar |
on_timer() |
| 21:24 |
GreenDimond |
will it do it at random intervals? |
| 21:24 |
sofar |
yes, because you can control the interval and make it random |
| 21:24 |
GreenDimond |
I see |
| 21:25 |
GreenDimond |
Are there any good examples of node timers that I could go off of? |
| 21:25 |
GreenDimond |
I am new to node timers and I dont want to bother you to help too much :P |
| 21:25 |
sofar |
sure, just look at nodetimer usage in minetest_game |
| 21:26 |
GreenDimond |
nodetimers are used in sapplings right? |
| 21:26 |
GreenDimond |
saplings* |
| 21:26 |
GreenDimond |
looks like those are ABMs |
| 21:26 |
calcul0n |
not sure, but i think saplings use abms |
| 21:27 |
calcul0n |
tnt uses node timers |
| 21:27 |
KaadmY |
Calinou: couldn't do anything useful :P |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
ah |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
well, it does basic stuff well |
| 21:28 |
KaadmY |
Calinou: no, 0.4.16 converted trees to node timers |
| 21:28 |
GreenDimond |
calcul0n*^ |
| 21:28 |
KaadmY |
minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(delay_in_seconds) |
| 21:32 |
sofar |
saplings are nodetimers |
| 21:32 |
sofar |
they used to be abms, but no more |
| 21:32 |
GreenDimond |
I checked and it looked like it still uses abms |
| 21:32 |
sofar |
link? |
| 21:32 |
GreenDimond |
"-- Sapling ABM" |
| 21:32 |
GreenDimond |
^trees.lua |
| 21:33 |
sofar |
link? |
| 21:33 |
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| 21:33 |
GreenDimond |
hmmmm |
| 21:33 |
GreenDimond |
nvm |
| 21:33 |
GreenDimond |
check github |
| 21:33 |
sofar |
:P |
| 21:33 |
GreenDimond |
*checked |
| 21:33 |
GreenDimond |
strange though |
| 21:33 |
GreenDimond |
my local copy of default still says abm |
| 21:34 |
sofar |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/1aafcdd7e0f0c5723b882195aad5b0ffd7293104/mods/default/nodes.lua#L610 |
| 21:35 |
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| 21:35 |
GreenDimond |
So for this I would do |
| 21:37 |
GreenDimond |
on_construct = function(pos) minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(1,10)) end, on_timer = function(pos, elapsed) minetest.sound_play(blablabla) end, |
| 21:38 |
sofar |
make sure to return `true` in on_timer |
| 21:38 |
sofar |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4316 |
| 21:39 |
GreenDimond |
so.. |
| 21:39 |
sofar |
alternatively, change and start the timer again with a different timeout |
| 21:39 |
GreenDimond |
return true after the end, |
| 21:39 |
sofar |
after sound_play before end |
| 21:39 |
GreenDimond |
ah |
| 21:41 |
GreenDimond |
testing.. |
| 21:41 |
sofar |
make sure to properly play the sound positionally too |
| 21:41 |
GreenDimond |
how so? |
| 21:42 |
GreenDimond |
whoops I need to define player |
| 21:43 |
GreenDimond |
I forget what I am supposed to define it as |
| 21:43 |
GreenDimond |
isnt it a get_pos or something? |
| 21:43 |
sofar |
why would you play to a player's pos? |
| 21:43 |
sofar |
don't you want the sound to be at the node? |
| 21:43 |
GreenDimond |
yeah |
| 21:44 |
sofar |
the node timer on_timer() function gets the `pos` as arg1 |
| 21:44 |
sofar |
on_timer(pos, elapsed) |
| 21:44 |
GreenDimond |
on_timer = function(pos, elapsed)minetest.sound_play({name = "sound.ogg", pos = player:getpos(), distance = 16})(pos) |
| 21:44 |
GreenDimond |
that is what it is right now |
| 21:45 |
GreenDimond |
I guess that pos = etc.. is for if the sound is at the player |
| 21:46 |
GreenDimond |
so if I want it at the node |
| 21:46 |
GreenDimond |
I need to change pos = to something else? |
| 21:46 |
GreenDimond |
or am I completely clueless? |
| 21:47 |
sofar |
sound_play("sound", {pos = pos}) |
| 21:47 |
sofar |
without the ".ogg" |
| 21:47 |
sofar |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=sound_play&type= |
| 21:47 |
GreenDimond |
so I dont even need minetest.sound_play? |
| 21:48 |
GreenDimond |
and dont I need a hear distance? |
| 21:48 |
GreenDimond |
oh I do need the minetest. |
| 21:48 |
GreenDimond |
but still what about the hear distance? |
| 21:48 |
sofar |
defaults should be OK |
| 21:49 |
sofar |
make sure the sound is mono |
| 21:49 |
GreenDimond |
how do I know if it is? :P |
| 21:49 |
sofar |
`file sound.ogg` |
| 21:49 |
sofar |
or open it in audacity or something |
| 21:49 |
GreenDimond |
heh |
| 21:50 |
GreenDimond |
I cant use audacity because it cant find my internal sound device |
| 21:50 |
GreenDimond |
but it is a .ogg |
| 21:50 |
sofar |
linux or windows? |
| 21:50 |
GreenDimond |
linux |
| 21:50 |
GreenDimond |
Xubuntu 16.04 with Audacity 2.1.2 |
| 21:50 |
sofar |
run `file sound.ogg` from a terminal |
| 21:51 |
sofar |
it tells you what the sample rate is and whether it is mono/stereo |
| 21:51 |
GreenDimond |
stereo |
| 21:51 |
sofar |
then convert it to mono |
| 21:51 |
GreenDimond |
but it does play in minetest properly |
| 21:51 |
GreenDimond |
how should I do that |
| 21:51 |
GreenDimond |
another command? |
| 21:52 |
sofar |
audacity can do it, easily |
| 21:52 |
GreenDimond |
alright |
| 21:52 |
sofar |
I suggest you fix your audio :P |
| 21:52 |
GreenDimond |
heh |
| 21:52 |
GreenDimond |
tried |
| 21:52 |
GreenDimond |
dunno how |
| 21:52 |
sofar |
ffmpeg can also do it, but that's commandline trauma |
| 21:53 |
GreenDimond |
I am hoping I dont need audacity to have my internal device in order to convert |
| 21:53 |
sofar |
maybe sox can easily do it too |
| 21:54 |
GreenDimond |
Already did it in audacity |
| 21:54 |
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| 21:54 |
sofar |
so, to explain why it needs to be mono |
| 21:54 |
sofar |
if you give a stereo audio sample to openal, it plays it at the same volume irregardless of the distance to the player |
| 21:55 |
GreenDimond |
ah |
| 21:55 |
GreenDimond |
quick question |
| 21:55 |
sofar |
which means the player can't find the location of the sound, ever, by listening |
| 21:55 |
GreenDimond |
when exporting from audacity as ogg, what do I want to set the quality to? |
| 21:55 |
GreenDimond |
ah ok |
| 21:55 |
sofar |
default quality in audacity is OK |
| 21:55 |
GreenDimond |
default is 5/10 so I will leave it |
| 21:56 |
GreenDimond |
also mono takes less space |
| 22:00 |
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| 22:01 |
GreenDimond |
it works |
| 22:01 |
GreenDimond |
thankyou sofar |
| 22:01 |
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| 22:30 |
kaeza |
stereo sound is basically two mono sounds coming from different places |
| 22:31 |
kaeza |
that does not translate very well when you have a single source location |
| 22:31 |
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| 22:34 |
Hijiri |
you could put each track in a different location |
| 22:34 |
Hijiri |
channel |
| 22:36 |
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| 22:40 |
kaeza |
but where do you put them? |
| 22:41 |
kaeza |
for a "stereo" node, it makes sense. you just calculate where each speaker would be and play each track individually from there |
| 22:42 |
kaeza |
but you still have one source location for each "sound" |
| 22:59 |
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Fixer |
hometown spawn FPS R.I.P. |
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garywhite |
What? |
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