Time Nick Message 00:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Advanced settings: Reformat noise parameter format example 130b3a8de https://git.io/vQ1Uk (152017-07-11T00:15:01Z) 00:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Biomes/decorations/ores: Make relative to 'water_level' setting 138299e4b https://git.io/vQ1UI (152017-07-11T00:14:24Z) 00:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Add 'plantlike_rooted' drawtype 13ef285b2 https://git.io/vQ1UL (152017-07-11T00:02:22Z) 02:19 AntumDeluge I know that there are functions for unregistering items & chat commands, but I don't see anything for entities. Is there a way to unregister/override entities in the game? 04:51 Hijiri I didn't know there were functions for unregistering items and chat commands 04:51 Hijiri there is a way to override entities though 04:51 Hijiri minetest.override_entity 04:51 Hijiri AntumDeluge: ^ 04:51 Hijiri check it out in lua_api.txt 04:52 Hijiri oh wait 04:52 Hijiri maybe it doesn't exist 04:52 Hijiri you could directly modified the entity definition though 04:53 Hijiri You can get the definition table by doing minetest.registered_entities["modname:entityname"] 05:23 AntumDeluge Hijiri, thank you that is a possibility. Originally I wanted to unregister an entity then re-register it with a new name. I suppose since minetest.registered_entities is a table of entity definitions I could just remove the entry after I've copied the definition. Not sure if that's the best way though. 05:26 AntumDeluge I think, to keep things simple though, I will just modify the original entity rather than deleting it. 05:28 AntumDeluge Do you know if retrieving a definition from minetest.registered_entities creates a reference or copy? 05:30 AntumDeluge So if I wanted to add an attribute to a registered entity, could I just do "minetest.registered_entities["modname:entityname"].new_attribute = value"? 05:30 AntumDeluge If I put it into a local variable would that reference it or make a copy? E.g. "local variable = minetest.registered_entities["modname:entityname"]" 05:40 Hijiri AntumDeluge: table values in Lua are all references (in the pointer sense, not C++ references) to table data 05:40 Hijiri so table values in Lua are really "pointer to table" values 05:41 Hijiri so it would affect the one in the registered_entities table 05:41 AntumDeluge Okay. And the same thing if I put it into a local variable? Changes to local variable are reflected in minetest.registered_entities entry? 05:41 Hijiri AntumDeluge: Unregistering the entity is a bad idea because it will break mods that spawn that entity 05:42 Hijiri AntumDeluge: the local variable is just a pointer to the same table data 05:42 Hijiri the entry in registered_entities is a pointer 05:42 Hijiri you are copying a pointer to the same data 05:42 AntumDeluge Okay. I'm glad to hear that. 06:11 GreenDimond Why is this happening? https://pasteboard.co/GAoNIBT.png 06:12 GreenDimond It is supposed to be a simple round hole, but it ends up in a mess... 06:12 GreenDimond Inside Blender it looks just fine. 06:16 GreenDimond Too bad Jordach isnt here 06:16 GreenDimond He'd know 06:31 GreenDimond I shall ask tomorrow 06:50 hisforever Hi I'd like to know how to correct these http://imgur.com/a/w7LF9 ? 07:16 AntumDeluge hisforever, the "Could not load image" errors just look like missing texture images. 07:17 AntumDeluge Guessing from the look of the descriptions, those images should be included with a mod called "inventory_sorter". 07:19 AntumDeluge Looks like "inventory_sorter" is included in the "dreambuilder" modpack: https://github.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_modpack/tree/master/inventory_sorter 07:22 AntumDeluge I'm not sure about the other errors. 07:46 hisforever Should 07:47 hisforever i dpwnload invebntory_Sorter? 07:48 hisforever download 07:49 hisforever AntumDeluge: Thanks 07:55 hisforever Is there a wat to get Smaller nodes? the ones that are in my game look so huge? 09:57 iisu Is there a way to recreate terrain from the seed exactly? 09:58 Raven262 Yes, generate a new world witrh the same seed, you'll get the same world 10:00 iisu The caves generate diffently though. 10:01 iisu I guess I have to downgrade MT to the version used when the map was originally generated. 10:02 iisu I tried generating it several times and looks like the caves are always the same, yet there are different than on the old map. 10:05 Raven262 I thought same seed is used for the caves every time 10:05 Raven262 I mean same seed that is applied to the main seed 10:07 hisforever what exactly are the seeds in the make new world? 10:08 Raven262 They are random numbers used for map generation. 10:13 hisforever ty Ravien 10:16 hisforever I sure would like to know how to fix these errors http://imgur.com/a/VYBGv ? 10:19 Raven262 For first part, there is a mod that is trying to replace nodes with some unregistered nodes (possibly a mod is missing), second part is about a missing texture (or textures), i guess you ripped off a mod from somewhere and it doesn't work? 10:20 hisforever ty raven 10:20 iisu Yes, Raven, the caves are the same every time I generate them but still they're completely different from the map I try to recreate. 10:20 iisu The original map is a year or two old. 10:22 hisforever Raven262 I think Im'm getting things screw up by installing mods then taking them out because there not working? 10:23 hisforever so should I remove all mods, but will that work? 10:24 Raven262 Possibly. 10:25 hisforever ok ty 10:25 hisforever have to go God bless 10:28 iisu I guess this is because newer versions of Minetest add new blocks to the mapgen so the mapgen has to rearrange everything and produce different result even though the seed is the same. 10:30 Raven262 I don't think so 10:30 Raven262 The mapgen is still generating the same terrain, the biome specific nodes are added afterwards 10:31 Raven262 Which means, if a new biome was added, or if the biome heat/humidity settings were tweaked, you would still get the same terrain shape but different arrangement of biomes. 10:32 Raven262 The biome-specific decorations are added afterwards, like trees , grass, papyrus and other. 10:35 iisu Yes, the terrain is all the same except for caves, new resources and biomes. 10:49 iisu Can I somehow stop the generator from spawning dirt, gravel and sand piles in mountains? Cause they don't look good. 10:50 Raven262 No you can't do it specificaly for mountains 10:50 Raven262 Mapgen doesn't know where are the mountains 10:51 iisu Just anything up from a certain level would do. 10:53 Raven262 Modify the registration of the gravel and dirt blob ores, set its height to what you desire. 10:53 Raven262 Its in default mod, mapgen.lua 10:53 Raven262 first registered ores are blob ores (to avoid scatters in blobs) 11:00 iisu Better now. The caves didn't change though so my theory that they're generated with resources like dirt and gravel was wrong. 11:02 iisu Last question: how do I import chunks from a local save of the map received from server? 11:03 iisu No, I totally don't want to steal server's map :P 11:05 Raven262 You want to save the loaded chunks from the server? 11:05 Raven262 enable_local_map_saving = true in minetest.conf 11:06 iisu That's what I've done and now I want to copy certain chunks to the new map I generated with the same seed. 11:07 Raven262 ... 11:07 Raven262 Probably you could open the saved map and generate it further with the same seed 11:07 Raven262 But i have no idea how to do it 11:07 Raven262 Wait 11:07 Raven262 Maybe 11:08 Raven262 If you set the map's seed somewhere in the world's foled, or in minetest.conf idk where it is stored 11:08 Raven262 and set the mapgen too 11:08 Raven262 You would get the same world generated over the save 11:11 iisu But this way it would copy all the chunks I saved, most of which I don't want. 11:12 Raven262 Well, i doubt you can copy the specific chunks :P 11:12 iisu The map is stored as a database, I just need to find the chunks by their position and copy them to the new database somehow. 11:13 Raven262 I do not know how that works, sorry. 11:13 iisu Also, when I copy the map to a new world it generates new biomes over it. So all buildings end up covered with dirt and trees. 11:14 Raven262 That is cause mapgen and seed mismatch 11:15 iisu Yeah, I've tried it before but without matching seed. 11:23 iisu Nope, the biomes still generate, only it is a little bit less agressive now. 11:23 iisu Some of the cobble also turned into mossy cobble without a reason, lol. 11:26 iisu One of my buildings rely on the caves arrangement which is now all changed. :/ 11:26 jin_xi mudflow? seen this happening on top of mod generated stone structures 11:32 iisu I think I'll figure it out, except for the biomes and caves going wild. Thanks for help. 11:36 jin_xi if i remeber correctly the solution to mapgen covering stone with earth and vegetation was to create an alias for stone and use that 15:17 rocky1138 I have a question about BlockPlanet. It appears that they've relicensed Minetest to be GPL3.0. Did they need permission from the copyright holders of Minetest to do that? Or because the Minetest license says LGPL or later are they able to do that without permission? 15:20 AndDT rocky1138: first link in google says that guys don't have the rights to relicense LGPL -> GPL3 15:21 AndDT It's a difficult question. Any lawyers in channel? :) 15:22 rocky1138 Honestly I google'd and duckduckgoed for 30 minutes before coming here :( 15:22 rocky1138 My Google-fu must be rusty. 15:22 Krock why haven't you binged it? 15:23 sfan5 rocky1138, pretty sure you can't just relicense lgpl to gpl 15:23 * Krock looks at freeminer 15:23 sfan5 idk haven't read the full license 15:24 rocky1138 I don't think you can without the permission of the copyright holders, either. But I'm confused about the "LGPL 2 _or later_" 15:24 sfan5 or later means you can upgrade the license to lgpl 3 15:25 Krock where "upgrade" = more restricted 15:26 rocky1138 The reason I'm asking is there's a person on YouTube doing really good work on BlockPlanet but he says he can't backport his work to Minetest and Minetest can't use it because BlockPlanet is GPL3. 15:26 rocky1138 And I was confused as to how a fork of Minetest wouldn't be able to benefit from user contributions. 15:26 Krock that's BlockMen and he used to be a Minetest dev 15:26 rocky1138 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBMOG_dTbWo 15:26 sfan5 !title 15:26 MinetestBot sfan5: Dynamic shadows with shaders! (proof of concept for Minetest :P) - YouTube 15:26 Krock 304 15:28 sfan5 assuming you can just relicense lgpl to gpl, then yes indeed minetest can't merge those improvements 15:28 rocky1138 sfan5 yes, but what I'm wondering is did BlockPlanet have permission to relicense Minetest to GPL3? 15:28 Krock unless the author allows it or, in a imaginary ideal case, where the author provides a PR. But most likely none of this will happen 15:33 sfan5 rocky1138, 3. You may opt to apply the terms of the ordinary GNU General Public License instead of this License to a given copy of the Library. [...] Once this change is made in a given copy, it is irreversible for that copy, so the ordinary GNU General Public License applies to all subsequent copies and derivative works made from that copy. 15:33 sfan5 (http://www.gnu.de/documents/lgpl-2.1.en.html) 15:37 sfan5 tl;dr yes 15:48 rocky1138 Very interesting. That explains the move from LGPL to GPL. What about the upgrade from GPL2 to GPL3? Is that explained by the "or later" in the original license? My gut says yes. 15:50 sfan5 the 'or later' in the original license only refers to lgpl 15:52 rocky1138 So we still don't have any way to move from GPL2 to GPL3 without permission from the original copyright holders. 15:54 sfan5 depends 15:55 sfan5 if the gpl includes the (or later) clause by default, then the move would be to gpl2 (+ or later) from where you could move to gpl3 17:39 GreenDimond Why is this happening? https://pasteboard.co/GAoNIBT.png 17:40 GreenDimond In Blender it's a normal cut-out hole, but when in Minetest it turns to a mess... 17:41 sofar UV mapping around holes is a problem 17:41 sofar the best thing to do is to make sure your UV maps never make a U or O shape 17:42 sofar so triangulize the surface in blender 17:42 rocky1138 I really wish IRC would show me channel history 17:43 rocky1138 I lost the conversation about GPL2/GPL3 17:45 GreenDimond sofar: what do you mean by triangulize? it's already split in 2.. I need to split it more? 17:48 sofar you still have U shaped surfaces 17:49 GreenDimond yes I see that 17:49 GreenDimond but when I triangulate that is a lot of surfaces.. 17:49 sofar the problem with a circle hole is that you're gonna need a ton of triangles 17:49 sofar the outside circle edge is not the problem, it's the inside hole 17:49 GreenDimond yes I know 17:50 GreenDimond I added the triangulate modifier 17:50 twoelk rocky1138: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2017-07-11#i_5006364 17:50 sofar yes you'll end up with a ton of triangles if you want to keep the shape 17:50 GreenDimond how much would that affect performance? 17:50 GreenDimond if at all 17:50 sofar if you let blender triangulate it then it should show up OK in minetest 17:50 GreenDimond so the only problem with the triangles is getting it to look good? 17:51 sofar nobody cares about 100 triangles or so 17:51 sofar 1000 is over the top though 17:51 sofar I'd try and keep the triangles to ~100 if you can 17:52 GreenDimond I am lucky 17:52 GreenDimond It is just ~98 17:52 GreenDimond (added) 17:52 sofar the minetest boat used to be 1500 :) 17:53 twoelk the boat was that edgy? 17:53 sofar watch my video 17:53 sofar https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiBtPSC5oHVAhWCLmMKHXojAUsQtwIISDAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMQit9BK_Dc0&usg=AFQjCNEmYCW3h-5k2LSFlyrbMDz_nZg6sQ 17:53 sofar errr, damn google link 17:53 sofar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQit9BK_Dc0 17:55 twoelk with no body shading one can't see all them edges anyways :-P 17:55 rocky1138 twoelk thanks! 17:55 rocky1138 Has no one ever questioned BlockPlanet's relicensing of Minetest before? I find it hard to believe I'm the only oe. 17:56 rocky1138 one* 17:56 rocky1138 maybe Celeron55 doesn't care in the end? 17:56 sofar it's been a point of contention before 17:56 sofar the thing is, it's entirely legal 17:56 sofar you can relicense lgpl-2.1 to something else 17:56 GreenDimond I didn't even know he relicensed it 17:56 sofar but never back 17:56 sofar he relicenses every commit when he pulls 17:57 GreenDimond wow 17:57 rocky1138 if it's legal why is it a point of contention? 17:57 GreenDimond seems like he is advancing minetest faster than the devs :/ 17:57 GreenDimond BlockPlanet* 17:57 sofar because any change *he* makes nobody else can merge back into minetest 17:57 rocky1138 why not relicense minetest as GPL3 and call it a day? 17:57 sofar only blockmen can submit changes back to minetest under lgpl 17:58 sofar because you do not negotiate with terrorists 17:58 sofar his fork is hostile 17:58 sofar pure and simple 17:58 GreenDimond ... 17:58 rocky1138 that's a pretty weak argument, based on irrationality 17:59 texel So question: is the minetest base game in a different repo somewhere? Just built from source, looking to see what I can do to help fix bugs. 17:59 celeron55 forks tend to die and then you're left with gpl3 code for no good long-term reason 17:59 rocky1138 it's possible that GPL3 is the right answer for minetest regardless of what blockplanet does. 17:59 GreenDimond He leaves Minetest just to go make his own game and doesn't even let Minetest use his work. How wude. 17:59 sofar I've been doing open source professionally for 15+ years 17:59 sofar that isn't a weak argument 17:59 GreenDimond Anywhos thanks for the help sofar 17:59 GreenDimond It worked btw :P 17:59 sofar the background is a long explanation why forks are fine, but forks like this where licenses change in this way are bad 18:00 sofar celeron55 is correct and that's the gist of why it's bad 18:00 rocky1138 is the only reason we are still on lgpl2 is because we don't want to give in to blockplanet? Wouldn't LGPL3 be better for minetest anyway? 18:00 celeron55 using gpl when forking an lgpl project is basically just an easy way to be hostile, unless you actually are a die-hard copyleft fanatic 18:00 sofar rocky1138: we can give to blockplanet 18:00 sofar rocky1138: the other way around is the problem 18:00 texel Ah. Nevermind. Just need to RTFM. =op 18:00 sofar any commit in minetest can go into blockplanet 18:00 rocky1138 yes 18:00 sofar the other way around, not so much 18:01 rocky1138 I meant why not just switch to lgpl3 for minetest then everything can be backported right? 18:01 sofar again 18:01 sofar because you do not negotiate with terrorists 18:01 rocky1138 is that the only answer? or is there some other actual reason 18:01 AntumDeluge sofar, haha! 18:02 rocky1138 like a problem with lgpl3 etc. 18:02 sofar essentially you'd let someone else dictate your licensing 18:02 celeron55 minetest was originally gpl, and i painstakingly switched it from that to lgpl before that was too late 18:02 celeron55 i'm not going the other way 18:03 celeron55 the more free, the better 18:03 sofar exactly 18:03 rocky1138 I'm not advocating a switch to GPL3 I'm asking why not LGPL3 18:03 rocky1138 and the only answer I'm getting is a kneejerk reaction 18:03 rocky1138 not some technical reason, etc. 18:03 celeron55 that wouldn't change anything 18:03 sofar gpl3 -> lgpl3 is not OK 18:03 rocky1138 Ah, okay. that makes sense then 18:03 rocky1138 that's what I was looking for 18:04 sofar this isn't kneejerk 18:04 * AntumDeluge looks up the meaning of "kneejerk" 18:04 sofar celeron55 knows his licenses 18:04 celeron55 if somebody could promise 5 more contributors for the next 10 years if MT switched to gpl, i would do that 18:04 celeron55 but nothing proves that would happen 18:05 celeron55 it would just be the same, but forever under a less free license 18:05 sofar let's look at it from the other side 18:05 sofar why, why, did blockmen pick a different license? 18:06 sofar there can be a few answers 18:06 sofar 1) he didn't know better 18:06 sofar 2) he knew exactly what he was doing 18:06 rocky1138 sofar this "gpl3 -> lgpl3 is not OK" was all I was looking for 18:06 sofar in the case of 1) he could have fixed it himself when he did knew better 18:07 sofar so obviously, he hasn't, and he knew exactly what he was doing 18:07 sofar so obviously, he doesn't want *his* improvements to go back into minetest 18:07 sofar not without his permission anyway 18:08 AntumDeluge What I'm gathering from this conversation is that BlockWorld could potentially draw developers away from Minetest & their work could not be backported to it. Is that accurate? 18:09 sofar there are some nuances, but essentially, yes 18:09 sofar only the people who *wrote* the code themselves can relicense it back to lgpl-2.1 18:10 sofar blockmen could, with 1 line of text, granting everyone permission to take the code as lgpl-2.1, too 18:11 sofar considering he accused me of theft a while back, I doubt he ever would 18:15 rubenwardy BlockPlanet is dead anyway 18:22 AntumDeluge sofar: Did that have anything to do with mob-engine mod? I had submitted a patch to BlockMen's Creatures Mob Engine mod a while back & was told that it had been abandoned & to open a PR for minetest-mods/mob-engine. 18:23 sofar AntumDeluge: no, that's just a separate mod, the whole license discussion is irrelevant for that 18:23 AntumDeluge rubenwardy: Freeminer is dead too, I think (not that it pertains to this conversation). 18:23 AntumDeluge sofar: I mean about the accusation of theft. 18:24 AntumDeluge Like, was BlockMen not happy that Creatures Mob Engine had been relabeled to mob-engine? 18:24 AntumDeluge Or was it BlockMen who actually did that? 18:25 AntumDeluge Appears that BlockPlanet code hasn't been updated for around 2 years: https://github.com/blockplanet/blockplanet 18:26 sofar the theft accusation was because I made some trivial code and he had previously written that as well 18:26 sofar that was minetest, not a mod 18:26 AntumDeluge Ah, okay. I see what you mean. 18:28 AntumDeluge Why get offended over that anyway? Doesn't matter who wrote code. It's all copyright The FSF, right? ;) 18:29 AntumDeluge Kind of a joke, because all copies of the GPL/LGPL say "Copyright Free Software Foundation" ( I really don't understand the licenses). 18:31 AntumDeluge I use an MIT license for most of my projects because it's "simple". But I don't think it protects from similar situations at all. 18:35 red-001 if someone wants the features he added in minetest they can just fork minetest 18:35 red-001 change the license 18:35 red-001 port the features and then keep it updated 18:47 sofar AntumD: the "text" of the GPL is copyrighted by itself, and owned by the FSF 18:48 sofar AntumD: your software is copyrighted by you, not the FSF 18:48 sofar even if it's licensed under the GPL 18:48 red-001 so eh what is it released under? 18:49 sofar #define "what" 18:49 red-001 what license is GPL released under? 18:49 sofar not licensed 18:49 sofar copyrighted 18:50 sofar https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt 18:50 sofar "Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. 18:50 sofar Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies 18:50 sofar of this license document, but changing it is not allowed. 18:50 sofar " 18:50 sofar well, technically that is a license statement 18:51 red-001 for some reason I find that license statement ironic 18:51 red-001 GPL itself is basically freeware 18:52 sofar it's actually really important that they did it that way 18:52 sofar to prevent someone from making a fake GPL license 18:53 red-001 couldn't they add something like "You are modify this license but you must renamed"? 18:53 red-001 s/are/can 18:53 red-001 +it 18:55 sofar they could, but why would you? 18:57 sofar I mean, they had some expensive lawyers to write these 18:58 sofar seems strange to then allow other people to take parts of it 18:58 sofar and that would just be dangerous anyway 19:19 Hijiri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Derivations 19:19 Hijiri apparently you can create derivatives if you don't include the preamble 19:20 Hijiri and rename the license 19:21 Hijiri https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#ModifyGPL 19:31 lumidify The same thing happened with OpenOffice and LibreOffice - LibreOffice could copy code from OpenOffice but OpenOffice couldn't copy code from LibreOffice because LibreOffice changed its license to the GPL. 19:32 AntumDeluge That's interesting. Not sure I like the change in licensing, but I was definitely happy about the LibreOffice fork because OpenOffice was dying, & many Win32 builds were being hijacked by malware. 19:33 AntumDeluge Not that LibreOffice couldn't be hijacked as well. Just need to make sure you get software from a good source. 19:34 lumidify LaTex FTW! (none of that GUI word processor junk) 19:34 lumidify :P 19:34 AntumDeluge Lol! I am clueless as to how to work LaTex. 19:34 AntumDeluge I can't even figure out how to compile it from source. :) 19:35 AntumDeluge Always had to find pre-built binaries on Windows machines (luckily I have converted to non-Windows). 19:36 AntumDeluge But my family still uses Windows. So I have to work on that platform when they need help. Ugh! 19:36 lumidify It is sort of weird, because there are so many different compilers for it, meaning there isn't really one single piece of software. 19:37 lumidify I just use whatever is included in my OS's package repositories :) 19:37 AntumDeluge Aren't there a few different major forks as well? 19:37 AntumDeluge That's what's great about Linux & FreeBSD & package repositories. 19:37 lumidify Yeah, I'm not sure about all that - I usually just use the basic pdflatex command, but I know there are many others too (some are better for unicode stuff, etc.) 19:38 lumidify But I've started to write my papers in LaTex just because it makes things so simple for me - I found a good template online which I can just copy-paste and then write the actual text. 19:39 AntumDeluge It's funny how when mobile devices started coming about, app stores became popular. Even desktop OSes like Windows 10 have app stores. But Linux operating systems have been using package repositories for as long as I have been using them. 19:39 AntumDeluge Sorry Minetest devs, if this conversation isn't appropriate for this channel. :*( 19:40 kaeza don't forget about dumbed down interfaces and those ugly "ribbons" 19:40 lumidify I know! I find it so annoying that most people don't even know the benefits of package repositories. I can't imagine living without the repositories. 19:40 kaeza AntumDeluge, nah, this isn't #-dev :P 19:40 AntumDeluge Phew! :) 19:42 lumidify I still don't understand how Windows etc. can claim to be easy to use without even having a proper package manager. 19:44 AntumDeluge Well, Windows 10 does have the Windows Store now. But, I suppose there are differences from an actual package manager. 19:44 AntumDeluge Now that I think about it, I believe they introduced the Windows Store with 8. 19:45 * AntumDeluge hates Microsoft because they hate open software & hates Apple because they take advantage of open software but don't give back nor give credit. 19:46 lumidify The App Store just has a bunch of dumbed down apps, not proper packages like on Linux and BSD 19:48 AntumDeluge I definitely like the packaging system on Linux/BSD distributions better. 19:51 lumidify I think people just need to understand how it works to see the benefits - most people simply don't know about anything other than Windows or Mac, so they've never experienced proper package repositories. 19:52 AntumDeluge Just like they don't know about anything other than Microsoft Office. So, when they try LibreOffice, they complain that it's too hard or doesn't do what they need. :p 19:54 lumidify Yeah, I always rant about this stuff, but in the end I usually decide it's not worth the effort to try to switch people over. 19:57 AntumDeluge Exactly. I've given up trying to convince people to switch. It always ends up in a headache for me because I have to teach them how to use it, all the while listening to them complain. 20:28 Calinou lumidify: LibreOffice is MPLv2 now 20:28 Calinou (used to be GPL/LGPLv2) 20:28 Calinou it is more permissive than the GPL or LGPL 20:28 Calinou (the copyleft is pretty weak) 20:28 lumidify Oh, nice. 20:28 Calinou (same license as eg. Firefox, since MPL = Mozilla Public License) 20:29 * lumidify hasn't looked at LibreOffice in a while... 21:02 xMoskau Hey 21:19 GreenDimond I have a node. I want the node to play a random sound from a list at random intervals, and make sure you have to be at a certain distance to do it. How would this be achieved? 21:19 GreenDimond *to hear it 21:20 KaadmY GreenDimond: minetest.sound_play({name = "foo_foosound", pos = player:getpos(), distance = 16}) 21:21 sofar GreenDimond: several ways of doing this 21:21 KaadmY Calinou: isn't LibreOffice the little program that couldn't? 21:21 sofar GreenDimond: abm's could work as a timer mechanism, or a node timer 21:21 GreenDimond I'll go for the "best" way if any 21:22 sofar well abm's can be very costly to the server 21:22 sofar so I prefer node timers myself 21:22 GreenDimond in which case I dont want abms 21:22 Calinou KaadmY: the program that couldn't what? 21:23 GreenDimond How would I do it with nodetimers? 21:23 GreenDimond (sofar) 21:24 sofar add a on_construct() handler to the node that starts the node timer, and then when the node timer expires make sure to restart it so it keeps firing 21:24 sofar on_timer() 21:24 GreenDimond will it do it at random intervals? 21:24 sofar yes, because you can control the interval and make it random 21:24 GreenDimond I see 21:25 GreenDimond Are there any good examples of node timers that I could go off of? 21:25 GreenDimond I am new to node timers and I dont want to bother you to help too much :P 21:25 sofar sure, just look at nodetimer usage in minetest_game 21:26 GreenDimond nodetimers are used in sapplings right? 21:26 GreenDimond saplings* 21:26 GreenDimond looks like those are ABMs 21:26 calcul0n not sure, but i think saplings use abms 21:27 calcul0n tnt uses node timers 21:27 KaadmY Calinou: couldn't do anything useful :P 21:27 Calinou ah 21:28 Calinou well, it does basic stuff well 21:28 KaadmY Calinou: no, 0.4.16 converted trees to node timers 21:28 GreenDimond calcul0n*^ 21:28 KaadmY minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(delay_in_seconds) 21:32 sofar saplings are nodetimers 21:32 sofar they used to be abms, but no more 21:32 GreenDimond I checked and it looked like it still uses abms 21:32 sofar link? 21:32 GreenDimond "-- Sapling ABM" 21:32 GreenDimond ^trees.lua 21:33 sofar link? 21:33 GreenDimond hmmmm 21:33 GreenDimond nvm 21:33 GreenDimond check github 21:33 sofar :P 21:33 GreenDimond *checked 21:33 GreenDimond strange though 21:33 GreenDimond my local copy of default still says abm 21:34 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/1aafcdd7e0f0c5723b882195aad5b0ffd7293104/mods/default/nodes.lua#L610 21:35 GreenDimond So for this I would do 21:37 GreenDimond on_construct = function(pos) minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(1,10)) end, on_timer = function(pos, elapsed) minetest.sound_play(blablabla) end, 21:38 sofar make sure to return `true` in on_timer 21:38 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4316 21:39 GreenDimond so.. 21:39 sofar alternatively, change and start the timer again with a different timeout 21:39 GreenDimond return true after the end, 21:39 sofar after sound_play before end 21:39 GreenDimond ah 21:41 GreenDimond testing.. 21:41 sofar make sure to properly play the sound positionally too 21:41 GreenDimond how so? 21:42 GreenDimond whoops I need to define player 21:43 GreenDimond I forget what I am supposed to define it as 21:43 GreenDimond isnt it a get_pos or something? 21:43 sofar why would you play to a player's pos? 21:43 sofar don't you want the sound to be at the node? 21:43 GreenDimond yeah 21:44 sofar the node timer on_timer() function gets the `pos` as arg1 21:44 sofar on_timer(pos, elapsed) 21:44 GreenDimond on_timer = function(pos, elapsed) minetest.sound_play({name = "sound.ogg", pos = player:getpos(), distance = 16})(pos) 21:44 GreenDimond that is what it is right now 21:45 GreenDimond I guess that pos = etc.. is for if the sound is at the player 21:46 GreenDimond so if I want it at the node 21:46 GreenDimond I need to change pos = to something else? 21:46 GreenDimond or am I completely clueless? 21:47 sofar sound_play("sound", {pos = pos}) 21:47 sofar without the ".ogg" 21:47 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=sound_play&type= 21:47 GreenDimond so I dont even need minetest.sound_play? 21:48 GreenDimond and dont I need a hear distance? 21:48 GreenDimond oh I do need the minetest. 21:48 GreenDimond but still what about the hear distance? 21:48 sofar defaults should be OK 21:49 sofar make sure the sound is mono 21:49 GreenDimond how do I know if it is? :P 21:49 sofar `file sound.ogg` 21:49 sofar or open it in audacity or something 21:49 GreenDimond heh 21:50 GreenDimond I cant use audacity because it cant find my internal sound device 21:50 GreenDimond but it is a .ogg 21:50 sofar linux or windows? 21:50 GreenDimond linux 21:50 GreenDimond Xubuntu 16.04 with Audacity 2.1.2 21:50 sofar run `file sound.ogg` from a terminal 21:51 sofar it tells you what the sample rate is and whether it is mono/stereo 21:51 GreenDimond stereo 21:51 sofar then convert it to mono 21:51 GreenDimond but it does play in minetest properly 21:51 GreenDimond how should I do that 21:51 GreenDimond another command? 21:52 sofar audacity can do it, easily 21:52 GreenDimond alright 21:52 sofar I suggest you fix your audio :P 21:52 GreenDimond heh 21:52 GreenDimond tried 21:52 GreenDimond dunno how 21:52 sofar ffmpeg can also do it, but that's commandline trauma 21:53 GreenDimond I am hoping I dont need audacity to have my internal device in order to convert 21:53 sofar maybe sox can easily do it too 21:54 GreenDimond Already did it in audacity 21:54 sofar so, to explain why it needs to be mono 21:54 sofar if you give a stereo audio sample to openal, it plays it at the same volume irregardless of the distance to the player 21:55 GreenDimond ah 21:55 GreenDimond quick question 21:55 sofar which means the player can't find the location of the sound, ever, by listening 21:55 GreenDimond when exporting from audacity as ogg, what do I want to set the quality to? 21:55 GreenDimond ah ok 21:55 sofar default quality in audacity is OK 21:55 GreenDimond default is 5/10 so I will leave it 21:56 GreenDimond also mono takes less space 22:01 GreenDimond it works 22:01 GreenDimond thankyou sofar 22:30 kaeza stereo sound is basically two mono sounds coming from different places 22:31 kaeza that does not translate very well when you have a single source location 22:34 Hijiri you could put each track in a different location 22:34 Hijiri channel 22:40 kaeza but where do you put them? 22:41 kaeza for a "stereo" node, it makes sense. you just calculate where each speaker would be and play each track individually from there 22:42 kaeza but you still have one source location for each "sound" 23:19 Fixer hometown spawn FPS R.I.P. 23:38 garywhite What?