| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
Void7 |
but srsly who cares? |
| 00:00 |
FakeRMS |
indeed |
| 00:00 |
TrueAndOnlyRMS |
terminals connecting to mainframes |
| 00:00 |
nolsen |
Void7: People trying to make a living? |
| 00:00 |
FakeRMS |
^ |
| 00:00 |
TrueAndOnlyRMS |
all this Cloud® thing takes power away from people |
| 00:00 |
Void7 |
nolsen: anybody who wants to compile it can. |
| 00:00 |
nolsen |
no. |
| 00:00 |
nolsen |
They can't. |
| 00:00 |
Void7 |
if you don't want to compile it, get the binaries. |
| 00:00 |
FakeRMS |
not only that, but closed source actually pushes that |
| 00:00 |
FakeRMS |
the whole "always connected" DRM comes to mind |
| 00:01 |
nolsen |
Now I understand why DRM exists... |
| 00:01 |
nolsen |
and thus, kinda support DRM |
| 00:01 |
FakeRMS |
it's just an iteration of bits |
| 00:01 |
FakeRMS |
jesus |
| 00:01 |
FakeRMS |
jesús, marÃa y josé |
| 00:01 |
Void7 |
/ignore nolsen |
| 00:01 |
Void7 |
oops |
| 00:01 |
TrueAndOnlyRMS |
How can you not like freedom? |
| 00:01 |
FakeRMS |
it's like you want your computing not to do what you want |
| 00:01 |
FakeRMS |
it's being a slave |
| 00:01 |
nolsen |
TrueAndOnlyRMS: I don't program, so I don't care. |
| 00:02 |
FakeRMS |
in a future you might |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
I personally would like to make money through programming. And the companies that employ me need to make money - and no open source business models give you the security that proprietary does |
| 00:02 |
FakeRMS |
also, even though you don't know, you can always have a friend or someone to audit it for you |
| 00:02 |
nolsen |
Thank you rubenwardy. |
| 00:02 |
shamoanjac |
would you have done nothing in Nazi Germany because you weren't a Jew (please gib Godwin) |
| 00:02 |
OldCoder |
OK |
| 00:02 |
OldCoder |
Line is pretty much there |
| 00:02 |
nolsen |
shamoanjac: Why would I be a jew? |
| 00:02 |
est31 |
!rainbow godwin |
| 00:02 |
MinetestBot |
4go7dw8in |
| 00:02 |
OldCoder |
This *is* #minetest and not #flamecentral |
| 00:02 |
betterthanyou710 |
rubenwardy: there are lots of companys that hire computer engineers to work for them |
| 00:03 |
betterthanyou710 |
they make tons |
| 00:03 |
FakeRMS |
rubenwardy, it's not like that, many companies actually get money from FOSS (red hat, for example) |
| 00:03 |
KaadmY |
<bbbbb> Void7: Then nobody would buy it. |
| 00:03 |
KaadmY |
http://www.aseprite.org/download/ |
| 00:03 |
betterthanyou710 |
we can talk about it |
| 00:03 |
betterthanyou710 |
theres raython |
| 00:03 |
betterthanyou710 |
etc |
| 00:03 |
OldCoder |
Suppose I ask to hear the specific point that is in dispute |
| 00:03 |
Fixer |
you are free to choose software you like, open source is for people who need some sort of freedom, you are free to choose whatever you like |
| 00:03 |
OldCoder |
Or the point that is to be decided |
| 00:03 |
OldCoder |
Is anybody able to state this? |
| 00:03 |
est31 |
open source business models are much harder than proprietary ones |
| 00:03 |
Void7 |
if minetest were closed-source, I wouldn't want to do anything with it |
| 00:03 |
FakeRMS |
me neither |
| 00:03 |
KaadmY |
same |
| 00:03 |
OldCoder |
Void7, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able |
| 00:03 |
betterthanyou710 |
nolsen: why did you say why would i be a jew? |
| 00:03 |
est31 |
same for me, in fact |
| 00:04 |
shamoanjac |
We, the freedom camp, argue that freedom matters more than the profits of a few oligarchs. |
| 00:04 |
OldCoder |
est31, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able |
| 00:04 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able |
| 00:04 |
FakeRMS |
really, the open source community, like you people here, have made a better game than some soulless comapny |
| 00:04 |
est31 |
OldCoder, what exactly are you wondering about |
| 00:04 |
OldCoder |
est31, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able |
| 00:04 |
FakeRMS |
it's amazing someone here would defend privative soft |
| 00:04 |
OldCoder |
It is a magic trick |
| 00:04 |
OldCoder |
Go on, try to do it |
| 00:05 |
FakeRMS |
(nobody mentioned me, that means i got off scot-free!) |
| 00:05 |
shamoanjac |
the point is whether we're ready to give away freedom in exchange for a false sense of convenience, or even worse, to give away our freedom for the personal benefits of a few other people |
| 00:05 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, moment |
| 00:05 |
Fixer |
proprietary and open source will live forever, this is part of human nature, live with it and stop flamewar |
| 00:05 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able |
| 00:05 |
est31 |
OldCoder, if its about the thing before about the rules |
| 00:05 |
shamoanjac |
I've just done that OldCoder |
| 00:05 |
betterthanyou710 |
lol |
| 00:05 |
OldCoder |
The wording itself |
| 00:05 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not saying that I dislike FOSS |
| 00:05 |
rubenwardy |
I love it |
| 00:05 |
OldCoder |
is vague and argumentative... |
| 00:05 |
nolsen |
If I was a programmer, I would care about freedom, but I am not. |
| 00:05 |
shamoanjac |
It's general. |
| 00:05 |
est31 |
OldCoder, I dont know who wrote the official channel rules, but I suppose it was c55 |
| 00:05 |
OldCoder |
State an issue to be decided; a tangle issue |
| 00:05 |
OldCoder |
tangible * |
| 00:06 |
Fixer |
FOSS is not about money its about your soul |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
I like how I can work on a project as big and difficult as Minetest without doing the foundation myself |
| 00:06 |
|
SloanOnLinux joined #minetest |
| 00:06 |
FakeRMS |
nolsen, but it's not only for programmers |
| 00:06 |
shamoanjac |
The FLOSS issue boils down to what I stated |
| 00:06 |
OldCoder |
So, nobody is willing and able to state a specific issue? |
| 00:06 |
FakeRMS |
you could be a whistleblower |
| 00:06 |
shamoanjac |
I have done OldCoder |
| 00:06 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, you have not |
| 00:06 |
est31 |
OldCoder, just dont confuse this channel with #minetest-project or #ventures |
| 00:06 |
OldCoder |
Read what you wrote |
| 00:06 |
FakeRMS |
or some other person caring about privacy |
| 00:06 |
SloanOnLinux |
FLOSS issue? |
| 00:06 |
betterthanyou710 |
shamoanjac: please restate it then |
| 00:06 |
shamoanjac |
yes |
| 00:06 |
shamoanjac |
ok |
| 00:06 |
OldCoder |
est31, thank you. You have overlooked something. |
| 00:06 |
betterthanyou710 |
whats #ventures? |
| 00:06 |
OldCoder |
betterthanyou710, please, PM |
| 00:06 |
* SloanOnLinux |
is burned by the flames |
| 00:07 |
betterthanyou710 |
k |
| 00:07 |
betterthanyou710 |
....which one |
| 00:07 |
betterthanyou710 |
lott or here |
| 00:07 |
betterthanyou710 |
or somewhere else |
| 00:07 |
OldCoder |
est31, respectfully, your assistance is not required |
| 00:07 |
FakeRMS |
nolsen, it's about being able to audit the source and know what your machine is doing |
| 00:07 |
SloanOnLinux |
What's going on here? |
| 00:07 |
OldCoder |
Note, though... |
| 00:07 |
shamoanjac |
Do you think the freedom of being able to know that software doesn't violate your rights and human dignity is more important than making profits? |
| 00:07 |
KaadmY |
SloanOnLinux: FLOSS vs. Proprietary |
| 00:07 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, a discussion that will be ended unless people can state... |
| 00:07 |
shamoanjac |
Is that specific enough? |
| 00:07 |
OldCoder |
a specific hypothesis |
| 00:07 |
OldCoder |
Wait |
| 00:07 |
betterthanyou710 |
SloanOnLinux: We are talking about how someone can protect closed software |
| 00:08 |
betterthanyou710 |
or at least i think we were |
| 00:08 |
SloanOnLinux |
OldCoder: where did the L come from? |
| 00:08 |
betterthanyou710 |
it got sooooo out of hand |
| 00:08 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, state that in tangible terms. What is the tangible point at issue? |
| 00:08 |
betterthanyou710 |
i dont know what the topic is anymore :P |
| 00:08 |
FakeRMS |
OldCoder, the problem is that someone is thinking that closed source is desirable |
| 00:08 |
SloanOnLinux |
Are we talking about making Minetest closed source? |
| 00:08 |
shamoanjac |
What do you mean by "tangible"? |
| 00:08 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, no |
| 00:08 |
Fixer |
it is always nice to have alternatives, especially open source O/S and applications, proprietary made software for masses has big problems (for example: race to the buttom of UIs and features, control over user etc) |
| 00:08 |
KaadmY |
s/buttom/button |
| 00:08 |
SloanOnLinux |
Look, if you want closed source go buy minecraft |
| 00:08 |
Fixer |
buttom |
| 00:08 |
* OldCoder |
will start to kick-ban shortly [temporarily] if there is no consensus on a specific point to discuss |
| 00:08 |
shamoanjac |
no SloanOnLinux, our friend nolsen believes that open source is ultimately bad because it allows people to steal your code |
| 00:08 |
FakeRMS |
^ |
| 00:08 |
Fixer |
have fun and good night |
| 00:09 |
FakeRMS |
I did buy minecraft, and I regret it at every minute |
| 00:09 |
shamoanjac |
you didn't reply to me OldCoder |
| 00:09 |
Void7 |
KaadmY: bottom, not button |
| 00:09 |
est31 |
OldCoder, i dont want to assist, I just want to point something out |
| 00:09 |
shamoanjac |
what do you mean by "tangible"? |
| 00:09 |
OldCoder |
If the issue is "Is Open Source Good or Evil? Is Closed Source Good or Evil?" no, we're not going to go there |
| 00:09 |
SloanOnLinux |
There's no such thing as stealing code, if someone takes your code you still have your code |
| 00:09 |
OldCoder |
est31, you did so, twice, and the implied statement is incorrect |
| 00:09 |
nolsen |
shamoanjac: Nice, you change my words around. |
| 00:09 |
FakeRMS |
it's like the sharing v. privay thing |
| 00:09 |
SloanOnLinux |
If someone steals your watch you no longer have your watch |
| 00:09 |
shamoanjac |
I haven't, nolsen |
| 00:09 |
rubenwardy |
That isn't what nolsen said |
| 00:09 |
rubenwardy |
Both FOSS and prop can be good |
| 00:09 |
shamoanjac |
This is exactly what he said |
| 00:09 |
rubenwardy |
nope |
| 00:10 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, your point has scrolled up. Is there a specific tangible point to discuss? |
| 00:10 |
OldCoder |
If the issue is "Is Open Source Good or Evil? Is Closed Source Good or Evil?" no, we're not going to go there |
| 00:10 |
OldCoder |
Tangible issue, please |
| 00:10 |
FakeRMS |
prop can, but you can never know if your prop soft is actually good or not |
| 00:10 |
OldCoder |
Hm |
| 00:10 |
SloanOnLinux |
Do I have to clone minetest just in case? |
| 00:10 |
shamoanjac |
I fail to see how that isn't tangible |
| 00:10 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, which? |
| 00:10 |
rubenwardy |
Windows is bad prop software, but not all is bad |
| 00:10 |
nolsen |
Open source is fine if the software is free. |
| 00:10 |
betterthanyou710 |
lol sloan get ready for the apocalypse |
| 00:11 |
nolsen |
But if you are a business, making profit from software, open source can hurt your profits. |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
This might be a valuable discussion. But if there is no consensus on a specific point to discuss I'm going to go into kick mode. |
| 00:11 |
Void7 |
hm, someone PM me when this flamewar is over |
| 00:11 |
* KaadmY |
runs |
| 00:11 |
|
Void7 left #minetest |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Last chance |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
One person |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Only 1st |
| 00:11 |
FakeRMS |
rubenwardy, you can't know it |
| 00:11 |
est31 |
GPL is even good for commercial software |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
State a specific point, please |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Is that the point? |
| 00:11 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder: Point to focus on: |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Shall that be discussed? It is a good one |
| 00:11 |
FakeRMS |
nolsen, it can only if your product isn't as good as the free alternative |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Right |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Shall we discuss |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
<est31> GPL is even good for commercial software |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Have at it |
| 00:11 |
nolsen |
no. |
| 00:11 |
FakeRMS |
y |
| 00:11 |
OldCoder |
Focus |
| 00:12 |
betterthanyou710 |
first question |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
Then state point you wish to discuss |
| 00:12 |
betterthanyou710 |
whats GPL? xD |
| 00:12 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder: Another open source program called GZDoom has smooth character movement and external movement, minetest does not |
| 00:12 |
shamoanjac |
GPL is not good for commercial software |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, good |
| 00:12 |
|
yang2003 joined #minetest |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
Explain why it is not |
| 00:12 |
nolsen |
Atleast rubenwardy is being a sensible person. |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
Others pause a moment |
| 00:12 |
nolsen |
+1 |
| 00:12 |
|
paramat left #minetest |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, you have a moment to comment |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
Elaborate |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
No comment? |
| 00:12 |
SloanOnLinux |
nolsen: Make your own version of minetest and keeo it's source closed |
| 00:12 |
shamoanjac |
dude |
| 00:12 |
shamoanjac |
let me type |
| 00:12 |
nolsen |
SloanOnLinux: I can't program. |
| 00:12 |
OldCoder |
OK |
| 00:13 |
rubenwardy |
things are never black and white |
| 00:13 |
nolsen |
I don't care about programming, programming is too complex for me. |
| 00:13 |
SloanOnLinux |
nolsen: find people who want minetest closed source |
| 00:13 |
FakeRMS |
nolsen, even if you can't open source is good for you |
| 00:13 |
SloanOnLinux |
You can call it closedtest if you like |
| 00:13 |
betterthanyou710 |
shamoanjac have to be fast here |
| 00:13 |
nolsen |
Minetest is free, so it doesn't matter. |
| 00:13 |
|
DonBatman joined #minetest |
| 00:13 |
OldCoder |
One point only or we cannot discuss this here |
| 00:13 |
betterthanyou710 |
no one can keep up with old coder but u gotta try |
| 00:13 |
OldCoder |
DonBatman, Hi |
| 00:13 |
shamoanjac |
nolsen said it, although with the wrong words. People being able to replicate software at will makes any commercial enterprise unviable |
| 00:13 |
rubenwardy |
ffs, nolsen never said that FOSS is bad |
| 00:13 |
shamoanjac |
at least in respect to the sale of the software itself |
| 00:13 |
OldCoder |
Pause, please |
| 00:13 |
OldCoder |
OK does anybody contest shamoanjac ? |
| 00:13 |
est31 |
yes |
| 00:13 |
OldCoder |
<shamoanjac> nolsen said it, although with the wrong words. People being able to replicate software at will makes any commercial enterprise unviable |
| 00:13 |
OldCoder |
est31, please respond |
| 00:13 |
betterthanyou710 |
nien! |
| 00:13 |
betterthanyou710 |
i think |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
will others let est31 respond? |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
needs man power, which needs money |
| 00:14 |
betterthanyou710 |
ken |
| 00:14 |
shamoanjac |
3,3Red Hat does not, for example, sell their operating system, but rather services parallel to it |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
allow est31 to type |
| 00:14 |
betterthanyou710 |
oops |
| 00:14 |
est31 |
the GPL is good for commercial software because then you can sell the ability to use it in closed source software |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
Who contests that? |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
And is ready to type? |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, thank you :-) |
| 00:14 |
shamoanjac |
I'm pretty sure the GPL disallows that |
| 00:14 |
betterthanyou710 |
this is a offical debate |
| 00:14 |
shamoanjac |
apart for the LGPL |
| 00:14 |
betterthanyou710 |
im willing to take over as judge |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
GPL prohibits commercial software? |
| 00:14 |
OldCoder |
Who says? Anybody wish to comment? |
| 00:14 |
betterthanyou710 |
lol Sloan |
| 00:15 |
betterthanyou710 |
i wish i thought of that xD |
| 00:15 |
shamoanjac |
this is not what est31 said |
| 00:15 |
est31 |
shamoanjac, no, you can license something under GPL, and make second licenses apart from the GPL |
| 00:15 |
est31 |
the GPL is non-exclusive |
| 00:15 |
OldCoder |
Dual Licensing IOW |
| 00:15 |
est31 |
BUT you need to let your contributors sign a CLA |
| 00:15 |
OldCoder |
If others comment, please focus on a specific point |
| 00:15 |
|
PhonyRMS joined #minetest |
| 00:15 |
OldCoder |
So... |
| 00:16 |
PhonyRMS |
didn't read the answer |
| 00:16 |
nolsen |
est31: What if you don't? |
| 00:16 |
nolsen |
Does these license have any legal value? |
| 00:16 |
OldCoder |
GPL can be used in closed source. If it is bad, who is it bad for? Comments? |
| 00:16 |
est31 |
then your code wont be merged into the master branch |
| 00:16 |
nolsen |
They are just pieces of text. |
| 00:16 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, Yes; speaking objectively |
| 00:16 |
SloanOnLinux |
Let's just discuss making player damage knockback and water flow push |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
The need for FOSS: -good software needs full time developers, and full time developers need to be paid. Not everything worthy of getting money for can have a service for it (eg: singleplayer games like Skyrim), and users don't tend to donate much |
| 00:16 |
betterthanyou710 |
am i allowed to put everyone on probation for 2 months yet? |
| 00:16 |
OldCoder |
They are indirectly enforceable through DMCA |
| 00:16 |
betterthanyou710 |
and 5 hours community service? |
| 00:16 |
betterthanyou710 |
all stand for the judge! |
| 00:16 |
OldCoder |
Licenses are not copyrights though |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
0ad is probably the only free game to get significant donations |
| 00:16 |
est31 |
OldCoder, GPL can't be used in closed source never said that, said it can be used in commercial software |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
*the need for prop |
| 00:16 |
est31 |
commercial != closed source |
| 00:16 |
betterthanyou710 |
awwww i loveeee 0ad |
| 00:16 |
betterthanyou710 |
such a great game |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
est31, I agree and understood |
| 00:17 |
est31 |
commercial == made for money |
| 00:17 |
betterthanyou710 |
talked to the developers |
| 00:17 |
shamoanjac |
SloanOnLinux, doesn't Minetest have knockback already? |
| 00:17 |
betterthanyou710 |
i need to update |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
GPL can certainly be used in commercial software |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
Is there another point to be settled? |
| 00:17 |
SloanOnLinux |
shamoanjac: I don't think so |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
Not just LGPL; full GPL |
| 00:17 |
nolsen |
est31: But someone can buy your program, then change the code, rename it to something else, and sell it. |
| 00:17 |
nolsen |
Making you loose profit |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, correct |
| 00:17 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder, does a player get knocked back when attacked? |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, wait |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, go on |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
Others, let nolsen finish |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, so? |
| 00:17 |
OldCoder |
Go on |
| 00:18 |
KaadmY |
"freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things." |
| 00:18 |
PhonyRMS |
nolsen, then he'd just get little pennies |
| 00:18 |
nolsen |
PhonyRMS: right. |
| 00:18 |
betterthanyou710 |
maybe a dime or two |
| 00:18 |
nolsen |
the original owner will. |
| 00:18 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, is it the right of a company to decide what it will start with? |
| 00:18 |
est31 |
nolsen, yes, you dont sell licenses to your users, but to people who want to make changes to the code and want to keep the changes to themselves |
| 00:18 |
est31 |
thats the way you make money |
| 00:18 |
PhonyRMS |
nolsen, because it's a first-timer thing, that's why minecraft is so big and minetest not, even though minetest I'd say is better |
| 00:18 |
betterthanyou710 |
i gtg |
| 00:18 |
betterthanyou710 |
be back soon |
| 00:18 |
OldCoder |
betterthanyou710, o/ |
| 00:18 |
OldCoder |
betterthanyou710/ |
| 00:18 |
betterthanyou710 |
i want to hear this xD |
| 00:18 |
est31 |
nolsen, like for example the old licensing model for qt |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
Is the question "Is FOSS morally bad" or is it "How do you make money from it" ? |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
Focus |
| 00:19 |
est31 |
qt under gpl and you could get a commercial license for money |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
Which is the question? |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
Is the question "Is FOSS morally bad" or is it "How do you make money from it" ? |
| 00:19 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: ladder. |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, good! |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
Progress! |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
If there is a noisy debate about "It is not possible" |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
THAT, shamoanjac, is a tangible issue |
| 00:19 |
OldCoder |
It can be settled |
| 00:19 |
SloanOnLinux |
Why don't we just put donate links and encourage people to give a buck or two, and bountysource links? |
| 00:20 |
PhonyRMS |
like redhat does, or though donation, issue settled |
| 00:20 |
KaadmY |
"Convey the object code by offering access from a designated place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equivalent access to the Corresponding Source in the same way through the same place at no further charge." |
| 00:20 |
OldCoder |
An issue that can't be settled is known as non-falsifiable |
| 00:20 |
nolsen |
SloanOnLinux: Because nobody aint got time for that. |
| 00:20 |
KaadmY |
terasology also has code bounties |
| 00:20 |
PhonyRMS |
there's always a way to take money from it |
| 00:20 |
OldCoder |
So, donations... they don't work; everybody agrees? |
| 00:20 |
OldCoder |
Ancilliary merchandise... may be |
| 00:20 |
SloanOnLinux |
I dont agree.. |
| 00:20 |
shamoanjac |
donations do work |
| 00:20 |
OldCoder |
Good! |
| 00:20 |
PhonyRMS |
I don't agree |
| 00:20 |
OldCoder |
Tangible point |
| 00:20 |
PhonyRMS |
donations work |
| 00:20 |
shamoanjac |
the FSF is alive after 30 years |
| 00:20 |
OldCoder |
FSF is different |
| 00:21 |
PhonyRMS |
most FOSS projects also get enough to get by |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
And I was there at the start BTW |
| 00:21 |
|
Void7 joined #minetest |
| 00:21 |
* OldCoder |
does know the history |
| 00:21 |
PhonyRMS |
it's no microsoft, but it works |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
Then... |
| 00:21 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: What are you? 50 years old? |
| 00:21 |
SloanOnLinux |
People pay for Minecraft, they should be kind enough to pay a little for Minetest... Although I don't have money to pay. |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
Donations, crowdfunding |
| 00:21 |
DonBatman |
hi OldCoder |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
DonBatman, Hi! |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
are one approach |
| 00:21 |
KaadmY |
Void7: flamewar not over yet |
| 00:21 |
Void7 |
oh |
| 00:21 |
Void7 |
well then |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
Ancilliary merchandise is another |
| 00:21 |
|
Void7 left #minetest |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
Linux is an example of an excellent FOSS project, companies pay employees to develop it together. The best projects are ones where companies work together. Free gaming doesn't benefit from this unfortunately |
| 00:21 |
OldCoder |
KaadmY, it is |
| 00:21 |
est31 |
wikipedia is donation run |
| 00:21 |
DonBatman |
And Hi everyone else |
| 00:22 |
est31 |
and its damn successful for them |
| 00:22 |
shamoanjac |
hi DonBatman |
| 00:22 |
OldCoder |
There is something that huge companies do |
| 00:22 |
OldCoder |
Embrace and Extend |
| 00:22 |
nolsen |
Ubuntu forever. |
| 00:22 |
nolsen |
Ubuntu 16.10 |
| 00:22 |
OldCoder |
Considered unethical but it works |
| 00:22 |
KaadmY |
and wikipedia has a huge banner telling you do donate now |
| 00:22 |
shamoanjac |
kek |
| 00:22 |
est31 |
does ubuntu make real money? |
| 00:22 |
OldCoder |
In Embrace and Extend you basically take over the FOSS project |
| 00:22 |
OldCoder |
Co-opt it |
| 00:22 |
est31 |
I believe they mostly live from donations of their boss |
| 00:22 |
nolsen |
est31: They are own by cannocal, which makes money through other stuff. |
| 00:22 |
PhonyRMS |
it has canonical behind |
| 00:22 |
est31 |
err I've mean canonical |
| 00:23 |
PhonyRMS |
yeah, that's why GNU GPL encourages forks |
| 00:23 |
OldCoder |
Individual donations, Corporate funding, Embrace and Extend, and Added Value |
| 00:23 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder, so basically someone is the boss of the FOSS project? |
| 00:23 |
est31 |
canonical isn't really profitable afaik |
| 00:23 |
OldCoder |
Which is similar |
| 00:23 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, explain |
| 00:23 |
OldCoder |
What is clear is that FOSS is here to stay after decades... |
| 00:23 |
OldCoder |
and people *will* find ways to profit from it |
| 00:23 |
OldCoder |
Some ethical, some not |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
Linux is in everything now |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
Your phones, even your TV sets and appliances |
| 00:24 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder, I mean if one person was in charge of the project and had help from people |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
Did particular Linux developers benefit? Probably not |
| 00:24 |
KaadmY |
heh |
| 00:24 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: Sounds like the horror stories you get when you install Java. |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, go on |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, go on two |
| 00:24 |
nolsen |
"It's in your car, it's in your microwave, it's in your TV" |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, go on too * |
| 00:24 |
nolsen |
"Java is everywhere" |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
*Slowly* make your point and let others respond |
| 00:24 |
nolsen |
Sounds scary. |
| 00:24 |
KaadmY |
imagine if linux changes its license |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
Java was a fad |
| 00:24 |
OldCoder |
KaadmY, cannot |
| 00:25 |
KaadmY |
OldCoder: exactly |
| 00:25 |
OldCoder |
Embrace and Extend |
| 00:25 |
OldCoder |
is the danger |
| 00:25 |
SloanOnLinux |
I don't find that unethical, but it's sorta too late to do that unless we vote |
| 00:25 |
nolsen |
Imagine if Microsoft bought linux. |
| 00:25 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, SCO tried to take it |
| 00:25 |
est31 |
http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Reading-the-tea-leaves-with-Canonical-s-financial-statement |
| 00:25 |
OldCoder |
They spent 10 years |
| 00:25 |
est31 |
"All told, during the 2013 financial year, these revenue streams gave the Canonical Group a gross profit of of $60.6 million and a net loss of $21.3 million." |
| 00:25 |
|
ElectronLibre joined #minetest |
| 00:25 |
OldCoder |
Trying to get the "rights" to Linux |
| 00:25 |
est31 |
$21 million losses in 2013 |
| 00:25 |
SloanOnLinux |
I mean, it's more organized, and if someone else wants to change it they can take charge of their own |
| 00:25 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, is this a hypothetical small project? Commercial? Startup? |
| 00:25 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: Are they still going? |
| 00:26 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder: Just an alternative organization method |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, SCO spent $1B and ceased largely to exist. They were laughed out of existence. |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
$1B on legal fees to get Linux |
| 00:26 |
nolsen |
SCO? |
| 00:26 |
SloanOnLinux |
OldcoderK If I were to vote for a minetest 'CEO |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
Linux, it was understood... |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
SCO was... |
| 00:26 |
est31 |
SCO the vulture corp |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
I was involved with them in 1981 |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
Long story |
| 00:26 |
est31 |
really really evil guys |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
They had a PC Linux |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
They had a PC UNIX * |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
At the time |
| 00:26 |
SloanOnLinux |
' I would vote for Oldcoder or c11 |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
They had the main commercial UNIX for PC |
| 00:26 |
nolsen |
Shanghai Cooperation Organisation? |
| 00:26 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, please; story |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
Santa Cruz Operation |
| 00:27 |
SloanOnLinux |
c55* |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
Then UNIX for PC went away |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
because of Linux |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
<SCO> We think we own Linux |
| 00:27 |
nolsen |
Does anyone even still use UNIX? |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
<SCO> Just because |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, yes; it became Mac OS X |
| 00:27 |
SloanOnLinux |
nolsen: Mac is unix based |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
Mac OS X is based on BSD |
| 00:27 |
* OldCoder |
was at B at the time |
| 00:27 |
est31 |
nolsen, all the bsds are unix based |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
This was 35 years ago... |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
UNIX was born around 1970 |
| 00:27 |
est31 |
and I think netflix is using 100% bsd |
| 00:27 |
OldCoder |
I started using it in 1976 |
| 00:28 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: Yet, people think Windows was the first OS. |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
BSD evolved out of it |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, few do; even the kids |
| 00:28 |
nolsen |
My parents do ._. |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
Windows is pretty young |
| 00:28 |
nolsen |
Or I don't know. |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, your parents... Huh. Don't they remember DOS? |
| 00:28 |
nolsen |
I know my parents hate linux. |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
Why do they feel this way? |
| 00:28 |
nolsen |
Who knows. |
| 00:28 |
* OldCoder |
shrugs |
| 00:28 |
shamoanjac |
I'm pretty sure nolsen's parents are too young to remember DOS |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
They use it, tell them that |
| 00:28 |
SloanOnLinux |
nolsen: Why do your parents hate linux? |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
:-) |
| 00:28 |
OldCoder |
It is fine if they do |
| 00:29 |
nolsen |
SloanOnLinux: I don't know. |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
Point is, it is here |
| 00:29 |
nolsen |
I can never get an answer why. |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
And profitable... |
| 00:29 |
SloanOnLinux |
And my mom absolutely refuses to try it |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
Now... |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
But SloanOnLinux does she have Android ? :-) |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
Tell her Android is Linux |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
<mom> O_O |
| 00:29 |
nolsen |
Oh my god, I have to tell this story.... |
| 00:29 |
SloanOnLinux |
OldCoder: Nope |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, go on |
| 00:29 |
SloanOnLinux |
She just uses a windows 7 laptop |
| 00:29 |
nolsen |
One day, she thought her Samsung Galaxy Tablet, was running Windows. |
| 00:29 |
nolsen |
and not android. |
| 00:29 |
OldCoder |
Oi |
| 00:30 |
nolsen |
This is next-level ignorance. |
| 00:30 |
SloanOnLinux |
Oldcoder, when the laptop starts spitting blue screens and error messages it'll get linuxed |
| 00:30 |
nolsen |
Nobody can get more ignorant than that. |
| 00:30 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, so tell her it is Linux |
| 00:30 |
SloanOnLinux |
nolsen: I'm sorry |
| 00:30 |
OldCoder |
Do not use the word ignorant |
| 00:30 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: I think I did, multiple times. |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
Heh |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
Shrug, then |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
And learn |
| 00:31 |
nolsen |
I think I get some ignorant response. |
| 00:31 |
nolsen |
Or "I don't care" |
| 00:31 |
nolsen |
or something like that. |
| 00:31 |
PhonyRMS |
nolsen, is it hereditary? why do you hate freedom? |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, then care about her for what she is |
| 00:31 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: lol no. |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
PhonyRMS, No Ad Hominem |
| 00:31 |
PhonyRMS |
just a joke |
| 00:31 |
nolsen |
I mock her ignorance xD |
| 00:31 |
nolsen |
Sometimes. |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, and learn; get the facts before you assess positions |
| 00:31 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, stupid is as stupid does. Not knows. That is what you focus on.\ |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, if you wish to be sharp yourself, assume there is something you may have missed |
| 00:32 |
MinetestBot |
[git] t4im -> minetest/minetest_game: Doors: Fix potential crashes, code improvements 00c2dde https://git.io/v6ebK (2016-08-01T01:21:57+01:00) |
| 00:32 |
MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Bones: Improve bones textures 4fba897 https://git.io/v6eb6 (2016-08-01T01:20:27+01:00) |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
MinetestBot, thank you :-) |
| 00:32 |
SloanOnLinux |
So, Minetest is not about to get monetized, right? |
| 00:32 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: One time I installed linux aside of windows on her laptop. |
| 00:32 |
nolsen |
She complained. |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, it is, in fact |
| 00:32 |
nolsen |
For no reason. |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, it is... |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
Hm |
| 00:32 |
nolsen |
She still had her winblows... |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
It depends |
| 00:32 |
nolsen |
But she complains |
| 00:32 |
OldCoder |
I had somebody who complained when I talked about Linux |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Now fix my Windows |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Now fix my Windows |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Now fix my Windows |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> This is the last time |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Now fix my Windows |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> You're getting Linux Mint |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Satan Get The Hence |
| 00:33 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: My grandmother made me fix her windows computer all the time, it was annoying. |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> It is free |
| 00:33 |
nolsen |
One time, SHE DELETED WINDOWS. |
| 00:33 |
nolsen |
It wouldn't boot. |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> Videos, email, touchscreen, Wii, radio, the works |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
Exactly |
| 00:33 |
octacian |
lol |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
This person... Windows 8 deleted itself |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
om boot |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
Enough |
| 00:34 |
octacian |
I quit windows when I got a broken registry |
| 00:34 |
nolsen |
Another time was when she made all .exe programs be downloaded through IE. |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> You are getting Mint |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Hm. Wait... I get it... |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> It is a Free Windows! |
| 00:34 |
shamoanjac |
the hell |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> Now I can conceptualize it |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> It is a Free Windows! |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
And that is what he settled on |
| 00:34 |
shamoanjac |
are these real IRC logs? |
| 00:34 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: Every time I talk about Linux being a kernel, in front of my parents, they think I'm talking about POPCORN. |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
<windowslover> I told my friends and they want the Free Windows |
| 00:34 |
|
Void7 joined #minetest |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
No, they are verbal IRL discussions |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
Paraphrased for fun |
| 00:35 |
shamoanjac |
oh I was afraid lel |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
Pretty accurate |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
He did call it a Free Windows |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
Not the first person |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, nolsen people need to be able to position things |
| 00:35 |
octacian |
BTW, OldCoder, thanks for that info u gave me a while ago about config files and and optional dependencies. I am doing some pretty neat stuff as a result of that.. |
| 00:35 |
SloanOnLinux |
Well it is, sorta |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
octacian, sure |
| 00:35 |
OldCoder |
SloanOnLinux, well, indirectly |
| 00:35 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: My grandmother is using Ubuntu 16.04, and she is complaning. |
| 00:36 |
OldCoder |
<linux> I am not offended to be called a Free Windows |
| 00:36 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, about what? |
| 00:36 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: About linux. |
| 00:36 |
octacian |
Kubuntu seems better for windows users. |
| 00:36 |
nolsen |
I had bad experiences with KDE. |
| 00:36 |
nolsen |
With its segfaults. |
| 00:36 |
SloanOnLinux |
nolsen: Examples please? |
| 00:36 |
* SloanOnLinux |
is a KDE user |
| 00:36 |
octacian |
I've never used it, just judging from appearence though |
| 00:37 |
SloanOnLinux |
I wanna see if you have the same problems as I do |
| 00:37 |
OldCoder |
So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS... |
| 00:37 |
OldCoder |
Its purpose, what is it good for, can you make money from it |
| 00:37 |
rubenwardy |
<3 xfce |
| 00:37 |
OldCoder |
But this is NOT 1997 any longer, kids |
| 00:37 |
OldCoder |
Homework: Google Halloween Documents ESR |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
<Microsoft> We must position Linux as terrorist tool |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
Those days are gone |
| 00:38 |
SloanOnLinux |
OldCoder: I've heard of those |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
FOSS and Closed Source are BOTH here to stay and with each other to play |
| 00:38 |
SloanOnLinux |
Now microsoft LUBBERS Linux! |
| 00:38 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: That reminds me an article where a governer bans the use of iPhones because "THEY R ON THE SIDEZ OF THETERRORSTS" |
| 00:38 |
nolsen |
Because the encryption |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, yes |
| 00:38 |
KaadmY |
well |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
That started in 1995 with Clinton |
| 00:38 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest could do with some full time devs - |
| 00:39 |
nolsen |
Who even uses iPhones, anyways. |
| 00:39 |
KaadmY |
i wouldn't mind getting iPhones banned |
| 00:39 |
octacian |
Me too |
| 00:39 |
OldCoder |
rubenwardy, we are doing OK |
| 00:39 |
OldCoder |
MS positioned Linux as terrorist until about 10 years ago |
| 00:39 |
OldCoder |
Now one of the major distros is MS-Linux |
| 00:39 |
nolsen |
I contribute to minetest here and there. |
| 00:39 |
octacian |
Ubuntu FTW! |
| 00:39 |
OldCoder |
Little known fact, yes, there is an MS-Linux |
| 00:39 |
SloanOnLinux |
Yus now zey <3sssss Linux |
| 00:39 |
nolsen |
Usually by creating issues and documentation |
| 00:39 |
nolsen |
Since I can't program. |
| 00:39 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, you can if you want to |
| 00:39 |
OldCoder |
Some prefer other levels |
| 00:39 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: I tried. |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, it is hardly a lifetime settled issue |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
What language was it? |
| 00:40 |
octacian |
nolsen, lua is actually quite simple. Have u taken a look at rubenwardy's modding "book?" |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Or platform? |
| 00:40 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: My first was python. |
| 00:40 |
nolsen |
No, that wasn't my first. |
| 00:40 |
betterthanyou710 |
hi |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, try other languages or MT mods |
| 00:40 |
|
Volkj joined #minetest |
| 00:40 |
nolsen |
my first was...I don't remember |
| 00:40 |
KaadmY |
python is really easy |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
betterthanyou710 here will mod |
| 00:40 |
SloanOnLinux |
Hi betterthanyou710 |
| 00:40 |
shamoanjac |
I'd say Lua is pretty bad for learning |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, for some |
| 00:40 |
KaadmY |
by first was basic-256 >.< |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
For 12 year olds it is fine |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
<- BASIC |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Around 1972 |
| 00:40 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: I try to learn, I read it, I forgot about it later on. |
| 00:40 |
nolsen |
forget* |
| 00:40 |
KaadmY |
basic-256 |
| 00:40 |
shamoanjac |
my first language was C, when I was 12 |
| 00:40 |
KaadmY |
not basic |
| 00:41 |
octacian |
Lua is pretty good honestly. I'm learning C++ though. More useful. |
| 00:41 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, then focus on media |
| 00:41 |
shamoanjac |
of course I didn't understand pointers at that age |
| 00:41 |
betterthanyou710 |
<OldCoder> betterthanyou710 here will mod what does this mean? |
| 00:41 |
OldCoder |
Are you a writer? Artist? |
| 00:41 |
OldCoder |
betterthanyou710, you will learn some Lua |
| 00:41 |
nolsen |
I'm not an artist. |
| 00:41 |
betterthanyou710 |
sweet |
| 00:41 |
nolsen |
I can't even write (on paper) |
| 00:41 |
betterthanyou710 |
hopefully you will teach me |
| 00:41 |
KaadmY |
http://basic256.org/index_en |
| 00:41 |
nolsen |
lol, basic language. |
| 00:41 |
nolsen |
Wasn't that used in commodore 64? |
| 00:41 |
Void7 |
I don't even know WHAT this discussion is about ._. |
| 00:41 |
KaadmY |
maybe |
| 00:42 |
* KaadmY |
agrees with Void7 |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, well, where do you feel most creative and competent? |
| 00:42 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: I actually lost my creativity. |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
betterthanyou710, you can pick it up easy |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, how did this happen? |
| 00:42 |
Void7 |
also java was my first language in 1972, used it with HTML and CSS |
| 00:42 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: I don't know. |
| 00:42 |
nolsen |
I guess I really never had it. |
| 00:42 |
shamoanjac |
kek Void7 |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
Void7, it is friendly. And welcome Old Timer. |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
But there was no HTML-CSS in 1972 |
| 00:42 |
KaadmY |
;_; |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
The Internet was uucp |
| 00:42 |
OldCoder |
KaadmY, ? |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
Why the tears? |
| 00:43 |
KaadmY |
because Void7 |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
Void7, what? |
| 00:43 |
nolsen |
TIL ;_; was a tear faced |
| 00:43 |
nolsen |
teared fear |
| 00:43 |
shamoanjac |
I remember back in 1954 when I was running some sweet Haskell |
| 00:43 |
octacian |
Did u know u can make GUI Applications with Lua? I mean, I'm still going with C++, but.. |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
shamoanjac, you were not |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
octacian, yep |
| 00:43 |
shamoanjac |
that's kind of the point lmao |
| 00:43 |
KaadmY |
lua: https://love2d.org/ |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
Ah |
| 00:43 |
rubenwardy |
octacian: just libraries |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
Yes, Jesse uses Love2 |
| 00:43 |
OldCoder |
Yes, Jesse uses Love2D * |
| 00:43 |
Void7 |
octacian: i've used Love2D |
| 00:43 |
rubenwardy |
Lua can use C libraries if you do it right |
| 00:44 |
OldCoder |
A Python coder age 21 |
| 00:44 |
octacian |
rubenwardy: you sure about that? WireShark seems to be Lua |
| 00:44 |
nolsen |
OldCoder: I tried learning, but I'm too impatient on working on a program, than learning the language. |
| 00:44 |
rubenwardy |
You need to do something special with binding |
| 00:44 |
rubenwardy |
but you can just use require() |
| 00:45 |
rubenwardy |
So yeah, octacian can be used to make GUIs just like any other language |
| 00:45 |
rubenwardy |
oops |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
nolsen, right... so what clicks with you? |
| 00:45 |
rubenwardy |
anyway, gtg o/ |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
octacian is a GUI framework, then |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
There are worse fates |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
rubenwardy, o/ |
| 00:45 |
octacian |
lol |
| 00:45 |
rubenwardy |
by octacian I meant Lua :/ |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
We no |
| 00:45 |
nolsen |
rubenwardy: Don't take an arrow to the knee. |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
See you |
| 00:45 |
Hijiri |
replace modding API with haskell imo |
| 00:46 |
octacian |
No! |
| 00:46 |
OldCoder |
Arrow to the knee Source Code is free MS loves you and me |
| 00:46 |
octacian |
lol again |
| 00:46 |
Void7 |
replace modding api with source-code modifications -_- |
| 00:46 |
octacian |
Why is stuff like DOS so interesting? |
| 00:46 |
nolsen |
!server [TUSS] |
| 00:46 |
MinetestBot |
nolsen: [TUSS] The Ultimate Survival Server | minetest.nolsen.xyz | Clients: 1/15, 1/2 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 152ms |
| 00:46 |
nolsen |
I spent time creating that server :\ |
| 00:47 |
octacian |
BTW, has anyone tried removing the grid in MT and instead placing blocks directly relative to the player? |
| 00:47 |
nolsen |
And only 1 user. |
| 00:47 |
nolsen |
ONE |
| 00:47 |
nolsen |
one regular. |
| 00:47 |
KaadmY |
octacian: can't |
| 00:47 |
octacian |
nolsen, lol you got a .xyz too! |
| 00:47 |
octacian |
KaadmY, why? |
| 00:47 |
KaadmY |
octacian: the world is stored as a grid |
| 00:47 |
KaadmY |
positions aren't known for each block |
| 00:47 |
KaadmY |
they have to be placed by grid boundaries |
| 00:48 |
Void7 |
why does minetest need to re-download media every connect ;_; |
| 00:48 |
nolsen |
Void7: It doesn't. |
| 00:48 |
octacian |
KaadmY, not fully removing the grid, but simply allowing blocks to be placed at different angles which would be saved in other properties. |
| 00:48 |
nolsen |
It is cached |
| 00:48 |
nolsen |
unless the server restarted |
| 00:48 |
octacian |
Void7: it's cached. Or else I'd be mad. |
| 00:48 |
KaadmY |
octacian: you could use entities |
| 00:48 |
Void7 |
yes |
| 00:48 |
Void7 |
!server pixture |
| 00:48 |
MinetestBot |
Void7: Pixture game server | pixture.quelcom.xyz | Clients: 4/10, 1/9 | Version: 0.4.14 / pixture | Ping: 17ms |
| 00:48 |
KaadmY |
but then they'd be much less reliable, no ambient occlusion, shading, etc |
| 00:49 |
octacian |
KaadmY: that's pretty inefficient when it comes to resources |
| 00:49 |
KaadmY |
octacian: yes |
| 00:49 |
KaadmY |
that's the only way though with the current API |
| 00:49 |
KaadmY |
and it'd take a tremendous amount of effort to change that |
| 00:49 |
OldCoder |
<octacian> Why is stuff like DOS so interesting |
| 00:49 |
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| 00:49 |
KaadmY |
^ because DOS |
| 00:49 |
OldCoder |
Because it's functional but minimal |
| 00:49 |
octacian |
How hard would something like minetest.set_texture(pos, side, newtexture) be? |
| 00:49 |
DonBatman |
octacian I am working on a game that makes it so you can not dig or place nodes unless I code it to |
| 00:49 |
Void7 |
roughly many. |
| 00:50 |
OldCoder |
Void7, are you really of that generation? 1972? |
| 00:50 |
Void7 |
no |
| 00:50 |
OldCoder |
Or joking? |
| 00:50 |
Void7 |
i was joking |
| 00:50 |
OldCoder |
Ah |
| 00:50 |
OldCoder |
OK |
| 00:50 |
nolsen |
The second I join my server..I get summoned in Dark Souls 1. |
| 00:50 |
OldCoder |
I'm literal, you know |
| 00:50 |
octacian |
DonBatman: that makes no sense. |
| 00:50 |
DonBatman |
It will make sense when it is done |
| 00:50 |
octacian |
ohhhh, for like adventure maps? |
| 00:51 |
Hijiri |
good chat logs in here |
| 00:51 |
Hijiri |
check your freedoms proprietary scum |
| 00:51 |
DonBatman |
Yup |
| 00:51 |
octacian |
Once again. I'd like something like minetest.set_node_property(pos, {...}) |
| 00:52 |
octacian |
That way you could simply set all nodes in an area to unbreakable or have a tool to modify it block-by-block |
| 00:52 |
shamoanjac |
isn't that literally what meta does octacian ? |
| 00:52 |
octacian |
shamoanjac: physical properties. |
| 00:52 |
Hijiri |
I remember seeing a github issue about having a node definition key in the metadata, for replacing parts of the definition |
| 00:53 |
shamoanjac |
you mean something like an "editable bit" for every node? |
| 00:53 |
Void7 |
replacing tiles would require many code. |
| 00:53 |
KaadmY |
such code* |
| 00:53 |
octacian |
Yeah. That way I could set nodes to be unbreakable without registering a completely new node. |
| 00:53 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: being able to change an individual node's texture, softness, etc. through meta |
| 00:53 |
KaadmY |
octacian: you can have a can_dig function |
| 00:54 |
KaadmY |
that checks it it should be breakable |
| 00:54 |
Void7 |
KaadmY: but you'd have to store if every node is breakable -_D |
| 00:54 |
shamoanjac |
you can change an individual node's texture through meta |
| 00:54 |
octacian |
Yes. Texture would be really nice. (e.g. changing backs of computers in my mod, digicompute) |
| 00:54 |
octacian |
Wait, you CAN? |
| 00:54 |
shamoanjac |
yes |
| 00:54 |
KaadmY |
shamoanjac: since when |
| 00:54 |
Hijiri |
you can? |
| 00:54 |
shamoanjac |
that's how signs work |
| 00:54 |
Void7 |
but what would happen if you change the collision box? |
| 00:54 |
Hijiri |
signs use entities |
| 00:54 |
KaadmY |
shamoanjac: sings don't |
| 00:54 |
Hijiri |
to display the text |
| 00:54 |
Void7 |
shamoanjac: signs add an entity in front |
| 00:54 |
KaadmY |
they use entities |
| 00:55 |
everamzah |
signs_lib |
| 00:55 |
shamoanjac |
welp I need to re-read the source |
| 00:55 |
octacian |
yeah, they use entities. I guess I could do that too, but once again.. entities... |
| 00:55 |
everamzah |
regular signs are nodeboxes + infotext metadata |
| 00:55 |
Void7 |
"hmm, why does the front of my computer disable shading when it's on" |
| 00:55 |
octacian |
signs lib works just like painting, with the entities |
| 00:55 |
KaadmY |
everamzah: regular signs aren't even nodeboxes |
| 00:55 |
everamzah |
oh |
| 00:55 |
KaadmY |
they're signlike, which is a single plane |
| 00:56 |
octacian |
KaadmY: what about this can_dig function? |
| 00:56 |
everamzah |
KaadmY: they're drawtype = "bodebox" |
| 00:56 |
KaadmY |
octacian: you can disable digging single nodes |
| 00:56 |
KaadmY |
everamzah: really? |
| 00:56 |
KaadmY |
nodebox* |
| 00:56 |
octacian |
would be useful for placing like spawn and such |
| 00:56 |
everamzah |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L1760 |
| 00:56 |
octacian |
how though |
| 00:56 |
Void7 |
if minetest allowed changing nodeboxes dynamically technic wouldn't require 64 different node defs for all directions of the wires |
| 00:57 |
everamzah |
NDT_CONNECTED |
| 00:57 |
everamzah |
i thought technic used them |
| 00:57 |
OldCoder |
^ Much better |
| 00:57 |
shamoanjac |
the minetest API really needs a lot of work |
| 00:57 |
shamoanjac |
A LOT |
| 00:57 |
octacian |
Void7: then why isn't someone trying to make the possible |
| 00:57 |
everamzah |
Void7: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L642 |
| 00:58 |
KaadmY |
octacian: because minetest_game doesn't need connected nodes |
| 00:58 |
everamzah |
minetest_game uses connected nodes for fences and walls |
| 00:58 |
octacian |
honestly though, MT and it's API has come a lot further than MC considering the ammount of time they've both had. |
| 00:58 |
everamzah |
and soon xpanes, likely |
| 00:58 |
Void7 |
everamzah: that was added after technic |
| 00:58 |
KaadmY |
btw the connected nodes are 0.4.14 |
| 00:58 |
KaadmY |
technic is 0.4.10 or something |
| 00:58 |
KaadmY |
several years ago |
| 00:58 |
octacian |
I really dislike the technic chest inv |
| 00:58 |
everamzah |
it's still updated |
| 00:58 |
everamzah |
apr 6 |
| 00:59 |
KaadmY |
aren't panes nodeboxes? |
| 00:59 |
KaadmY |
i thought xpanes was entirely lua |
| 00:59 |
everamzah |
also |
| 00:59 |
everamzah |
connected nodeboxes in technic: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/blob/097d0335858f85b4c2e85e801caef1976f585aa6/technic/machines/register/cables.lua#L25 |
| 00:59 |
octacian |
So is there a signlike drawtype? |
| 00:59 |
everamzah |
xpanes is entirely lua |
| 00:59 |
everamzah |
currently using 15 nodes for each pane |
| 00:59 |
everamzah |
signlike is a flat pane |
| 00:59 |
everamzah |
it's the old signs |
| 00:59 |
rubenwardy |
shamoanjac: make a list of problems you've found and post it somewhere like the forum |
| 01:00 |
Hijiri |
nolsen: your server shop values diamond at 16 dirt |
| 01:00 |
shamoanjac |
I'll do when I finish the banners mod |
| 01:00 |
rubenwardy |
make sure that it's good list (try not to be vague, but don't be too wordy either) |
| 01:00 |
rubenwardy |
it'll help |
| 01:00 |
Void7 |
oh, that's probably very new |
| 01:00 |
nolsen |
Hijiri: No it doesn't. |
| 01:00 |
octacian |
rubenwardy: how do u generate the item cubes used in the modding book? |
| 01:00 |
Void7 |
also why does connect_sides exist |
| 01:00 |
shamoanjac |
I still have tons of suprises to discover |
| 01:00 |
rubenwardy |
octacian: I nicked those from the wiki |
| 01:00 |
Void7 |
can't you just set the box to either {} or nil? |
| 01:00 |
Hijiri |
nolsen: dirt is 60 per stack, diamond is 1000 per stack |
| 01:00 |
shamoanjac |
isn't connect_sides for stuff like rails and mesecons? |
| 01:00 |
rubenwardy |
octacian: that's why some are missing |
| 01:01 |
shamoanjac |
therefore just textures? |
| 01:01 |
nolsen |
Hijiri: I don't know the prices to set. |
| 01:01 |
octacian |
rubenwardy: this is gonna be fun then.. |
| 01:01 |
octacian |
Wait, it's simple. Inkscape |
| 01:01 |
rubenwardy |
blender or by screenshoting, I guess :P |
| 01:01 |
betterthanyou710 |
blenders fun |
| 01:01 |
Hijiri |
you could set the standard as 1 diamond = something and price everything else against that |
| 01:01 |
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| 01:01 |
KaadmY |
shamoanjac: rails are raillike drawtype |
| 01:01 |
octacian |
There is a type of grid in inkscape that makes stuff like that easy |
| 01:01 |
Void7 |
hexagonal grid? |
| 01:01 |
shamoanjac |
true |
| 01:01 |
octacian |
yep |
| 01:02 |
shamoanjac |
just use the free market lmao |
| 01:02 |
KaadmY |
i could probably even write a python script to autogenerate isometeric blocks |
| 01:02 |
rubenwardy |
Hijiri, nolsen, much more fun would be a supply/demand based price adjusting store |
| 01:02 |
octacian |
That would be really useful, KaadmY |
| 01:02 |
rubenwardy |
difficult to balance on low pop though |
| 01:02 |
Hijiri |
rubenwardy: increase price as supply goes down and decrease for up? |
| 01:02 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 01:03 |
rubenwardy |
and same for demand |
| 01:03 |
Hijiri |
how do you measure demand? |
| 01:03 |
octacian |
rubenwardy: can nodeboxeditor generate that stuff? if not, you should try and add that functionality. |
| 01:03 |
rubenwardy |
buyers of that product |
| 01:03 |
Hijiri |
it could just be purely-demand based and have the shop contain infinite |
| 01:03 |
rubenwardy |
octacian: it potentially code, if I placed a camera in the right place |
| 01:03 |
Hijiri |
or should players be providing all the material |
| 01:03 |
shamoanjac |
pure demand with infinite supplies will create bubbles of speculation |
| 01:03 |
rubenwardy |
but I'd suggest keeping a window for it: min and max price of a product |
| 01:04 |
octacian |
Then u should do it lol. Sorry though, I can't help, still have basically no C++ experience |
| 01:04 |
octacian |
rubenwardy: btw, NBE, can it create mode advanced nodes such as stairs? |
| 01:04 |
octacian |
*more |
| 01:04 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, it can make any nodebox |
| 01:05 |
rubenwardy |
although with a lot of boxes you may have a UI problem - there's no grouping or box children |
| 01:05 |
octacian |
HOW? lol. I can only figure out how to, for example, make a node thinner. |
| 01:05 |
rubenwardy |
Click + to make a new box |
| 01:05 |
rubenwardy |
and use the text list to select a box |
| 01:06 |
octacian |
I'll mess around more I guess.. I've heard meshes are better for resources though, aren't they? |
| 01:06 |
rubenwardy |
you'd have to optimise them |
| 01:06 |
rubenwardy |
so meshes exported straight from NBE will be the same speed as the node boxes from it |
| 01:06 |
rubenwardy |
except for load time, meshes load slighty faster |
| 01:07 |
rubenwardy |
meshes are better for resources as you can generally do them using less vertices |
| 01:07 |
rubenwardy |
NBE was designed before mesh support |
| 01:07 |
octacian |
How do you create a lua sandbox like with LuaControllers from mesecons? I have to do it for my latest project, digicompute (originally got the idea from digiterm). |
| 01:09 |
Void7 |
octacian: http://lua-users.org/wiki/SandBoxes |
| 01:09 |
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| 01:09 |
Void7 |
luacontrollers have a very locked-down sandbox |
| 01:11 |
octacian |
That's around what I'm gonna have to do. Right now, I think computers can run functions like mt.kick, and when a computer crashes, the whole server does |
| 01:12 |
Void7 |
also probably need a time limit so stuff like infinite loops will not hang the server |
| 01:13 |
octacian |
Yeah. |
| 01:13 |
octacian |
BTW, which example is best? Lua 5.1 or 5.2? They both do the same, right? |
| 01:15 |
octacian |
I'll have to think about it, but not sure how I'd use the sandbox. Code is executed from a physical filesystem unique to each computer. |
| 01:16 |
Void7 |
lua 5.2 does not support 5.1 method |
| 01:16 |
Void7 |
not sure about other way around |
| 01:16 |
octacian |
LuaControllers use 5.1 method |
| 01:16 |
Void7 |
yeah, probably |
| 01:22 |
Hijiri |
octacian: how will you make computers carry on the same computation from before? Will they have to manually yield? |
| 01:23 |
Hijiri |
from before as in between server ticks |
| 01:29 |
octacian |
Hijiri: I don't understand what you mean. Info such as input and output (& formspec of course) is stored in meta, as well as any other information regarding what the computer is doing at the time. |
| 01:30 |
Hijiri |
ok |
| 01:30 |
Hijiri |
so the computer isn't doing general programs? |
| 01:34 |
octacian |
Hijiri: it will be capable of running programs in their own sandbox (e.g. nano based text editor), and information about what is running at the time and custom formspec data will be stored in respective meta keys. |
| 01:35 |
Hijiri |
octacian: Are these programs that will be limited to finishing within one tick? |
| 01:35 |
Hijiri |
actually, I should just ask what information you are storing |
| 01:36 |
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| 01:43 |
iama200 |
hii |
| 01:43 |
octacian |
I hadn't thought about then taking more than one tick to finish. It's all plain lua though, so that shouldn't be an issue, should it? |
| 01:44 |
octacian |
Hijiri: I store process name, input, output, formspec, that's about it. In fact, I'm not storing process name right now. |
| 01:44 |
octacian |
The application or os has access to meta though. |
| 01:45 |
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| 01:46 |
octacian |
and os |
| 01:49 |
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| 01:52 |
Hijiri |
so the process has to run within one tick? |
| 01:53 |
Hijiri |
oh, sorry |
| 01:53 |
Hijiri |
didn't read |
| 01:53 |
Hijiri |
the reason it's an issue is because it's plain lua |
| 01:53 |
Hijiri |
it's hard to go outside and look at where the computation is |
| 01:54 |
Hijiri |
maybe if you import and use a lua VM or something |
| 01:54 |
Hijiri |
then you'd also get to measure memory usage |
| 02:00 |
octacian |
I still don't quite understand why I'd need to do that, Hijiri. Maybe I'll see as I continue. idk.. |
| 02:00 |
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| 02:22 |
Void7 |
why does minetest raise segmentation fault? from a stack trace it seems to be in Camera::drawWieldedTool |
| 02:23 |
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| 02:26 |
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| 02:28 |
Void7 |
i tried software mode, still segfaults |
| 02:28 |
Void7 |
i'm using irrlicht 1.7.3, if that helps |
| 02:28 |
Void7 |
version is "Minetest 0.4.14-dev-e559f87" |
| 02:28 |
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| 02:30 |
est31 |
Void7, can you paste the stacktrace somewhere |
| 02:30 |
est31 |
(not here) |
| 02:31 |
Void7 |
ok |
| 02:31 |
KaadmY |
i've seen people paste debug logs on channels without autokick enabled |
| 02:31 |
KaadmY |
it goes on for almost forever |
| 02:31 |
KaadmY |
one time it kept printing for ~5 minutes |
| 02:33 |
Void7 |
http://pastebin.com/cH6u14fP |
| 02:34 |
est31 |
oh, it looks like a driver bug |
| 02:34 |
est31 |
the trace is inside the driver |
| 02:34 |
Void7 |
software mode also segfaults |
| 02:34 |
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| 02:35 |
est31 |
weird |
| 02:35 |
est31 |
do you have a stacktrace from that one too |
| 02:35 |
KaadmY |
theoretically software isn't in the driver |
| 02:35 |
Void7 |
yes it isn't |
| 02:35 |
KaadmY |
i've had the same problem with mismatching irrlicht versions |
| 02:35 |
KaadmY |
or, similar problems |
| 02:35 |
KaadmY |
basically seg fault before the menu |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
<KaadmY> theoretically software isn't in the driver |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
what do you mean |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
there are multiple parts of what a "driver" is |
| 02:36 |
KaadmY |
yeah |
| 02:36 |
Void7 |
http://pastebin.com/U4yy2hdd |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
its the firmware of the gfx card |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
plus some kernel level code |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
plus some code that talks with the kernel level code |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
all cann be called "driver" |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
can* |
| 02:37 |
Void7 |
could it be irrlicht problems? |
| 02:38 |
est31 |
it can be what KaadmY said |
| 02:38 |
Void7 |
i'll try irrlicht >1.8 |
| 02:38 |
est31 |
maybe your include path includes a version of irrlicht different from the so path |
| 02:38 |
KaadmY |
he checked that already |
| 02:38 |
KaadmY |
but.. |
| 02:38 |
KaadmY |
never hurts to try it if it's not already working |
| 02:38 |
est31 |
its all made harder with cmake caching all these paths |
| 02:38 |
KaadmY |
yeah |
| 02:39 |
KaadmY |
you can remove the build/ directory and restart |
| 02:39 |
KaadmY |
but then you lose everything if you've changed cache files |
| 02:41 |
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| 03:09 |
Void7 |
new irrlicht, still crash |
| 03:09 |
Void7 |
nvm |
| 03:10 |
swift110-phone |
hey |
| 03:12 |
Void7 |
? |
| 03:18 |
swift110-phone |
how are you void7 |
| 03:18 |
Void7 |
good :) |
| 03:19 |
Void7 |
MT compile status 51% |
| 03:21 |
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| 03:26 |
Void7 |
75% |
| 03:26 |
swift110-phone |
good |
| 03:26 |
swift110-phone |
ehat |
| 03:27 |
swift110-phone |
why did you compile it |
| 03:27 |
Void7 |
MT compile stat |
| 03:27 |
Void7 |
trying to fix segmentation fault |
| 03:30 |
Void7 |
still seg fault :( |
| 03:30 |
Void7 |
anyway gtg now |
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swift110-phone |
ok |
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| 06:17 |
celeron55 |
here's an interesting side note to this night's FOSS flame war: back when i wanted to change the license to something else from GPL in 2011, i actually thought of a license that would be non-commercial until 6 months from release or so, after which it would be the same as LGPL or whatever, and before which only i would have had permission for selling it |
| 06:17 |
celeron55 |
but i decided getting people on board of that would have been too difficult and also i'm not a lawyer so it would probably have ended up somehow broken |
| 06:18 |
celeron55 |
i think a license like that should exist though |
| 06:18 |
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| 06:19 |
celeron55 |
also, est31 was correct in the fact that none of minetest existed in 2009 |
| 06:20 |
celeron55 |
it's probably not strictly a problem in the case of @minetest though, dunno |
| 06:24 |
celeron55 |
i probably need a @minetest.net email address and i can't be bothered to make one especially as the registration functionality of yandex is broken |
| 06:24 |
celeron55 |
which handles them |
| 06:24 |
celeron55 |
"Content Security Policy: The page's settings blocked the loading of a resource at self ("script-src https://mail.yandex.com 'unsafe-eval' 'nonce-015e3c307cdcde416fd7e9683021d8bh' https://mc.yandex.ru https://social.yandex.com https://yastatic.net")." |
| 06:25 |
celeron55 |
like... what even is this shit |
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AntumDeluge |
Is there any way to prioritize loading mods, other than using "depends.txt"? I want to load craft_guide before all others. |
| 07:34 |
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| 07:53 |
Megaf |
Good morning gentlemen |
| 07:55 |
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| 08:01 |
Megaf |
Bonjour FirePowi, |
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| 08:20 |
Megaf |
Cool, github works without javascript |
| 08:23 |
Megaf |
agaran: Are you there sir? |
| 08:26 |
Megaf |
man, I want a Power9 laptop workstation so badly. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-4.8-More-POWER9 |
| 08:35 |
Megaf |
agaran: Would you be kind enough to help us brainstorm this? https://github.com/Megaf/Electrical-Engineering-For-Minetest/issues/1#issuecomment-236422656 |
| 08:35 |
Megaf |
anyone is free to join the discussion |
| 08:35 |
Megaf |
!title |
| 08:35 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: TODO List [Alpha1] · Issue #1 · Megaf/Electrical-Engineering-For-Minetest · GitHub |
| 08:39 |
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| 08:49 |
Megaf |
So, acording to Opera Beta, my personal website loads in 00:01.89 seconds with adds and in 00:00.99 without ads. |
| 08:50 |
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| 08:50 |
Megaf |
Funny thing is, I didn't put any ad at all in my website. It's just a clean wordpress installation with one single plugin |
| 08:50 |
Megaf |
I have to track down now what is this supposed ad |
| 08:52 |
Megaf |
maybe it's statcounter |
| 08:53 |
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| 08:57 |
Megaf |
And the web looks so good and fast without ads and javascript |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:01 |
aix |
hi all |
| 09:10 |
aix |
will mapgen touch ANY already generated land? |
| 09:10 |
aix |
if i change it |
| 09:10 |
aix |
(the mapgen) |
| 09:13 |
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| 09:13 |
FirePowi |
Bonjour Megaf |
| 09:14 |
JamesTait |
Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy World Wide Web Day! 😃 |
| 09:14 |
Megaf |
Yep, StatCounter plugin does slow the website down indeed |
| 09:15 |
Megaf |
aix: Usually no, but backup your map first |
| 09:16 |
Megaf |
aix: on my server I switched from v6 to v7 for a couple of hours to generate some v7 terrain, then switched back to v6, no harm done in already generated terrain |
| 09:16 |
Megaf |
same applies to nether, nether did not regenerate already generated underground mines |
| 09:16 |
Megaf |
aix: so it should be mostly safe, but again, backup your world before you try anything |
| 09:16 |
Megaf |
happy WWW day JamesTait! |
| 09:20 |
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| 09:29 |
Megaf |
ok, Akismet has no impact at all on the website performance |
| 09:33 |
aix |
okay |
| 09:37 |
aix |
https://sr.ht/_NVQ.png lol i hid this chest somewhere in the sky and forgot it was there |
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| 09:43 |
aix |
reckon i should keep v7 on? |
| 09:43 |
Megaf |
aix: we have lots of hidden chest in Megaf Server |
| 09:44 |
Megaf |
by me and players, we call them treasures |
| 09:44 |
aix |
anything as rediculous as mine? |
| 09:44 |
Megaf |
wow |
| 09:44 |
Megaf |
usually we put precious metals and rare minarals |
| 09:45 |
aix |
https://sr.ht/gZ9b.png |
| 09:45 |
Megaf |
like mithrill,diamonds and mese |
| 09:45 |
aix |
mine has some unspawnable stuff |
| 09:45 |
aix |
uh |
| 09:45 |
aix |
ungettable |
| 09:45 |
aix |
spawned in |
| 09:46 |
Megaf |
about mapgen, you can try in a local game mapgens and then decide what you want |
| 09:51 |
Hijiri |
AntumDeluge: there is no way to do it from the mod sidd |
| 09:51 |
Hijiri |
sie |
| 09:51 |
Hijiri |
side* |
| 09:51 |
Hijiri |
A user could put craft_guide as trusted |
| 09:52 |
Hijiri |
all trusted mods are run before untrusted mods |
| 09:52 |
Hijiri |
(If security is on) |
| 09:55 |
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| 10:52 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/anishathalye/lumen/issues/7 (Linux port) has more reactions than https://github.com/anishathalye/lumen/issues/8 (Windows port) |
| 10:52 |
Calinou |
:D |
| 10:56 |
AntumDeluge |
Thank you Hijiri |
| 11:24 |
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| 11:39 |
Megaf |
ok, I just switched from nginx + hhvm to hhvm with the built in proxygen web server. Happy enough |
| 11:39 |
Calinou |
hhvm's main purpose is to eat more RAM now that PHP 7 was released :P |
| 11:40 |
Megaf |
and actually my website was faster with nginx |
| 11:40 |
Megaf |
hm |
| 11:41 |
Megaf |
memory use is lower tho |
| 11:42 |
Megaf |
Calinou: ^ |
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| 12:28 |
aix |
hi |
| 12:29 |
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| 12:29 |
shamoanjac |
okay so I have this funny problem with Lua |
| 12:30 |
shamoanjac |
there is a function which is 4function banners.Banner:push_transform(self, transform) |
| 12:30 |
shamoanjac |
which is just a wrapper for 3table.insert(self.transforms, transform) |
| 12:31 |
shamoanjac |
yet when it gets launched from a smartfs callback, I get 4init.lua:57: bad argument #1 to 'insert' (table expected, got nil) |
| 12:31 |
shamoanjac |
on the line 3state.banner:push_transform({texture="banner_defaulttex.png", mask=self.name..".png"}) |
| 12:34 |
Calinou |
try blue text, it makes your code automatically work |
| 12:35 |
Calinou |
green is not great at that |
| 12:35 |
Calinou |
:) |
| 12:35 |
aix |
>using green text at all |
| 12:40 |
sfan5 |
shamoanjac: have you tried declaring it as function banners.Banner.push_transform(self, transform) |
| 12:40 |
sfan5 |
(. instead of :) |
| 12:43 |
shamoanjac |
uhm I'll try |
| 12:44 |
shamoanjac |
I don't really understand the difference between the two ways |
| 12:44 |
shamoanjac |
I thought colons were needed for objects |
| 12:44 |
shamoanjac |
well it changed the error |
| 12:45 |
shamoanjac |
that's something |
| 12:45 |
shamoanjac |
2attempt to index global 5'self' |
| 12:46 |
shamoanjac |
oh shit I made it work |
| 12:47 |
shamoanjac |
it was that I had also switched the constructor to a dot |
| 12:47 |
shamoanjac |
instead of keeping the colon |
| 12:47 |
shamoanjac |
come on banners are near completion |
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| 12:52 |
shamoanjac |
now I'm getting 5"attempt to call 'get_transform_string()' (a nil value) |
| 12:52 |
shamoanjac |
which is strange since the method get_transform_string() is defined the same as the push_transform |
| 12:52 |
shamoanjac |
i.e. function banners.Banner.get_tranform_string(self) |
| 12:52 |
shamoanjac |
the line causing the problem is 6state:get("banner_preview"):setImage(state.banner:get_transform_string()) |
| 13:08 |
aix |
are there any lava swimming mods? |
| 13:09 |
Calinou |
aix: probably quite a bit of them, but they won't cancel the red screen flash upon taking damage (which is cancelled) |
| 13:09 |
Calinou |
also you'll die if you go in lava with less than 4.5 hearts |
| 13:10 |
shamoanjac |
the red screen of damage needs to be removed |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:10 |
shamoanjac |
can't count the amount of times I've died while fleeing from mobs because I saw nothing due to the red screen |
| 13:13 |
shamoanjac |
is there really no reason I get this nil error? |
| 13:13 |
shamoanjac |
I can't find the difference between that function and the previous one |
| 13:13 |
shamoanjac |
as why does one work and not the other |
| 13:14 |
Calinou |
<shamoanjac> the red screen of damage needs to be removed |
| 13:14 |
Calinou |
it could be replaced with a damage compass like you see in those modern games |
| 13:14 |
shamoanjac |
yeah |
| 13:14 |
Calinou |
removing flash entirely would be confusing, because the screen shake is hardly visible |
| 13:14 |
sfan5 |
"those modern games" |
| 13:14 |
Calinou |
I did that once, and had no idea I was taking damage |
| 13:14 |
Calinou |
sfan5: yeah, even classic Doom had a damage compass somehow |
| 13:14 |
shamoanjac |
because damage needs sound |
| 13:14 |
Calinou |
status bar face turned in the direction of damage when you got hit from the sides |
| 13:16 |
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| 13:19 |
shamoanjac |
god the error was so stupid |
| 13:19 |
shamoanjac |
yet another typo |
| 13:19 |
shamoanjac |
calling "tranform" instead of "transform" |
| 13:20 |
shamoanjac |
btw don't texture manipulation work inside of forms? |
| 13:21 |
shamoanjac |
I'm getting 4ERROR[Main]: 3generateImage(): 6Could not load image "banner_defaulttex.png[mask:bend_left_outline.png" |
| 13:23 |
Amaz |
Do you need ^ between .png and [ ? |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
^ is for overlaying textures |
| 13:23 |
shamoanjac |
yes, I forgot that |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
the [ is an indicator that it's a special thing |
| 13:24 |
shamoanjac |
4it is almost working |
| 13:24 |
sfan5 |
!rainbow you use a lot of colors while chatting... |
| 13:24 |
MinetestBot |
4you 7use 8a lo3t of col6ors whil4e ch7atti8ng..3. |
| 13:24 |
shamoanjac |
4brace yourselves, banners are coming |
| 13:24 |
shamoanjac |
I like colors |
| 13:30 |
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| 13:30 |
Calinou |
there needs to be a mod to ban banners |
| 13:31 |
shamoanjac |
:( |
| 13:38 |
Calinou |
haha |
| 13:39 |
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| 13:39 |
Calinou |
when you subscribe to Phoronix Premium, you can choose a duration |
| 13:39 |
Calinou |
1 year is $35, 3 years is $100, 100 years is $150 |
| 13:45 |
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| 13:46 |
shamoanjac |
https://8ch.net/v/src/1470059194800.png |
| 13:47 |
shamoanjac |
any idea why this bug of working with the texture only in a quarter of the image? |
| 13:47 |
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| 13:48 |
shamoanjac |
the size of the image is (4, 2), yet the results of transformations are only displayed in that (2,1) corner |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:54 |
Megaf |
This makes me happy http://uploadpie.com/oSJJw |
| 13:55 |
Megaf |
a console for each of my OpenVZ containers on its own tmux window |
| 13:55 |
Megaf |
no need for ssh on them anymore |
| 13:56 |
Megaf |
who needs virtual machines and you have containers? |
| 13:58 |
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| 13:59 |
rubenwardy |
Hi all |
| 13:59 |
rubenwardy |
does anyone know whether Worldedit can map nodes? Sort of like replace multiple at a time |
| 13:59 |
rubenwardy |
you could use it to convert biomes, mostly |
| 13:59 |
rubenwardy |
so dirt_with_snow -> dirt_with_grass, snow -> dirt, et |
| 14:00 |
rubenwardy |
trees would be a problem |
| 14:00 |
Megaf |
I think you have to go one my one |
| 14:01 |
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shamoanjac |
power went off |
| 14:08 |
shamoanjac |
I don't know whether someone replied after I said 3<shamoanjac> the size of the image is (4, 2), yet the results of transformations are only displayed in that (2,1) corner |
| 14:08 |
aix |
https://github.com/cdqwertz/automation/blob/master/automation_machines/init.lua how does the quarry work? |
| 14:08 |
aix |
i can't get the boiler to do anything |
| 14:10 |
* dzho |
reads backscroll |
| 14:11 |
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sfan5 |
shamoanjac: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2016-08-01 |
| 14:12 |
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| 14:12 |
Preuk |
hi |
| 14:12 |
Preuk |
what is currently bundled lua version? |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:13 |
dzho |
I guess this is around the time the leakage into -dev started 20:37 <@OldCoder> So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS... |
| 14:14 |
sfan5 |
Preuk: 5.1 iirc |
| 14:14 |
shamoanjac |
thanks sfan5 |
| 14:14 |
Preuk |
ok thanks... couldn't find it in github repo, only 5yo comits on src/lua |
| 14:15 |
sfan5 |
Preuk: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/lua/src/lua.h#L18 |
| 14:15 |
Preuk |
#define LUA_RELEASE"Lua 5.1.4" |
| 14:16 |
Preuk |
thank you, i just realised there might be some constants defined |
| 14:16 |
Preuk |
is lua upgrade planned? |
| 14:17 |
sfan5 |
currently not |
| 14:17 |
sfan5 |
there was some work for 5.2 and also 5.3 i think |
| 14:17 |
Preuk |
there are integers in 5.3 that might be useful for a lot of use cases |
| 14:17 |
sfan5 |
but it wasn't merged because of unresolved issues |
| 14:17 |
Preuk |
ok |
| 14:19 |
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| 14:29 |
aix |
can anyone suggest a mod that's in "WIP mods" ? |
| 14:29 |
aix |
i 27 pages is fair enough but i'm not going through 70 of them |
| 14:30 |
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| 14:49 |
Dragonop |
aix: depends on what you are looking for |
| 14:49 |
aix |
anything |
| 14:49 |
aix |
i looked through the whole mod releases section |
| 14:49 |
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| 14:49 |
aix |
and i still want something special |
| 14:50 |
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| 14:52 |
Megaf |
aix: what kind of mod you want? |
| 14:53 |
aix |
something that adds building material ideally |
| 14:53 |
aix |
but anything well, unique |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
anyone good with 3d modelling? I'd love to see a penguin mod |
| 14:54 |
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| 14:54 |
Shiftus |
I think there is an animals mod out there somewhere, not sure if it has penguins. If I had a better computer, I could learn Blender and build a model for penguins. |
| 14:55 |
rubenwardy |
I know there are animal mods :P |
| 14:55 |
Megaf |
Shiftus: blender doesnt require a better computer |
| 14:55 |
Megaf |
you can use an old netbook for it |
| 14:55 |
Shiftus |
I'm running XP |
| 14:55 |
Megaf |
just the rendering might take a while |
| 14:55 |
Shiftus |
With terrible graphics hardware |
| 14:55 |
Shiftus |
And very little RAM |
| 14:56 |
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| 14:57 |
Megaf |
if you have a single core at 830 MHz, 2 GB of ram and an intel 945 GPU you can run blender already |
| 14:57 |
Megaf |
comfortably |
| 14:57 |
shamoanjac |
and you don't even need to render |
| 14:58 |
Megaf |
just use the wireframe view and you are good to go |
| 14:58 |
nm0i |
Morning |
| 14:58 |
Megaf |
afternoon |
| 14:58 |
Shiftus |
I don't have an intel GPU. :/ |
| 14:59 |
Megaf |
Shiftus: so you have a better thing |
| 14:59 |
Megaf |
945 is a very shitty and old intel graphics card |
| 14:59 |
Shiftus |
Maybe I do, I don't know. |
| 14:59 |
Megaf |
from the early 2000s |
| 14:59 |
Megaf |
lol, you don't know what is your graphic card? |
| 14:59 |
Shiftus |
I haven't run the DirectX Diagnostics in a while on my current system |
| 15:00 |
* Megaf |
is speechless |
| 15:00 |
Megaf |
Shiftus: Are on a laptop or desktop? |
| 15:00 |
Shiftus |
Desktop |
| 15:00 |
Shiftus |
Very old desktop too |
| 15:00 |
Megaf |
ok, is it a branded desktop? |
| 15:01 |
Shiftus |
Dell |
| 15:01 |
Shiftus |
It was preowned though |
| 15:01 |
Megaf |
ok, somewhere is the model number of it |
| 15:01 |
Shiftus |
I ran dxdiag.exe |
| 15:01 |
Shiftus |
My Display Device, is a RAGE 128 Pro Ultra GL AGp |
| 15:01 |
Preuk |
Megaf: when using more than one computer, it's pretty easy to forget what is in each one |
| 15:02 |
Preuk |
rage 128 O_O |
| 15:02 |
Megaf |
ok, that's old |
| 15:02 |
Shiftus |
Yeah |
| 15:02 |
Megaf |
very old |
| 15:02 |
Megaf |
but should be more than good enough for blender |
| 15:03 |
Megaf |
or maybe not |
| 15:03 |
Megaf |
I'm impressed that Minetest runs on it |
| 15:03 |
Megaf |
it's OpenGL 1.0 only |
| 15:04 |
Megaf |
Shiftus: I'm reading about blender here, your desktop should run it just fine |
| 15:04 |
Shiftus |
If I understood correctly, I'm getting new hardware this week |
| 15:05 |
Shiftus |
In addition, Minetest doesn't even open a world or a server, just gives me a Connection Timeout |
| 15:05 |
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| 15:05 |
Preuk |
i must admit we were using blender on similar hardware 10 years ago, ran pretty fine (unless you tried rendering) |
| 15:06 |
Shiftus |
I haven't even installed it. |
| 15:06 |
Shiftus |
I have very little RAM... |
| 15:06 |
Megaf |
if you have 128 MB it will be enough |
| 15:06 |
Megaf |
I remember running XP with 64 MB |
| 15:07 |
Megaf |
on a Pentium III, I think it was a 300 MHz Pentium III |
| 15:07 |
Megaf |
or 500 MHz |
| 15:07 |
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| 15:38 |
Calinou |
Rage 128 had troubles even running Q3A, IIRC |
| 15:38 |
Calinou |
<rubenwardy> anyone good with 3d modelling? I'd love to see a penguin mod |
| 15:39 |
Calinou |
I'd be happy if someone made mob models with non-crappy models/textures :| |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/rubenwardy/penguin |
| 15:39 |
Calinou |
I cringe every time I see that cow or boar from Mobs Redo |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
I used a non voxelly penguin from OGA |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
and the bunny code |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
but ideally I'd like animation |
| 15:40 |
rubenwardy |
and for them to either waddle or slide down hills |
| 15:40 |
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| 15:40 |
Calinou |
I don't know about Blender animation :/ |
| 15:42 |
aix |
https://sr.ht/qZRz.png ready for the light bugs... |
| 15:45 |
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| 15:51 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, |
| 15:51 |
agrecascino |
? |
| 15:51 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, ? |
| 15:52 |
shamoanjac |
check dis |
| 15:52 |
shamoanjac |
1 moment |
| 15:52 |
shamoanjac |
blob:https://imgur.com/0a46e44f-4209-4b63-9b36-2c057b4658c0 |
| 15:53 |
shamoanjac |
disregard the corner bug |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
try again, that's not a correct imgur link |
| 15:54 |
shamoanjac |
welp |
| 15:55 |
shamoanjac |
http://imgur.com/WMp9qSl |
| 15:55 |
agaran |
Megaf: I am |
| 15:55 |
shamoanjac |
though I wanted to post only the png |
| 15:55 |
agaran |
Megaf: I was at work, no irc there |
| 15:55 |
Megaf |
No worries |
| 15:56 |
Calinou |
made shovel textures for my texture pack, committing |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:56 |
Megaf |
I wish IRC clients had a /busy command, that would turn all notifications off. |
| 15:56 |
agaran |
usually I am on irc about this time for few hours (till evening) |
| 15:56 |
agaran |
oh, I'd forget to use it likely then |
| 15:56 |
Calinou |
also, flowing lava is now animated |
| 15:57 |
Calinou |
someone made a pull request :) |
| 15:57 |
agaran |
on morning, thats like 5am for me, I would forget to do anything as I am on auto-guidance to work.. half asleep |
| 15:57 |
sfan5 |
Megaf: try just closing the client |
| 15:58 |
Megaf |
heh |
| 15:59 |
Megaf |
how nonsese would creating a swap image in a ram disk would be? |
| 16:01 |
est31 |
swap image in a ramdisk? |
| 16:01 |
est31 |
thats real nonsense indeed |
| 16:02 |
agaran |
Megaf: depends what you want to do.. but in general little, unless your machine has more memory than it can cache.. |
| 16:02 |
agaran |
there were machines like that.. and then uncached memory was really too slow for main mem but perfect for super fast swap |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
swap on the GPU makes a lot of sense though |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/graphitemaster/moreram |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
you need a X server for it though |
| 16:06 |
Calinou |
a relatively recent GPU, with OpenGL 3.3 support |
| 16:06 |
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| 16:06 |
Calinou |
also see the Arch Linux wiki on how to use VRAM as swap in a more conventional manner |
| 16:06 |
Megaf |
Calinou: that's interesting |
| 16:06 |
Megaf |
swap faster that main memory |
| 16:06 |
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| 16:07 |
Megaf |
Calinou: I could use that to get some of the memory my GPU takes from the main system memory back to the system, lol |
| 16:08 |
Calinou |
here I have 8 GB of VRAM :) |
| 16:13 |
agaran |
thats a lot |
| 16:14 |
Megaf |
Calinou: is there a command to see that? |
| 16:14 |
agaran |
glxinfo? |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:15 |
Calinou |
Megaf: not sure |
| 16:15 |
Calinou |
agaran: not sure if glxinfo has that |
| 16:15 |
agaran |
has at least version of opengl.. mine is working with ogl 3.3 but does not have that much vram |
| 16:15 |
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| 16:16 |
Megaf |
Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Mullins [Radeon R2 Graphics] bus-ID: 00:01.0 chip-ID: 1002:9853 |
| 16:16 |
Megaf |
Display Server: X.org 1.18.4 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) |
| 16:16 |
Megaf |
tty size: 194x55 Advanced Data: N/A for root |
| 16:16 |
Megaf |
that doesn't says much does it? |
| 16:16 |
agaran |
not really a lot.. |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:17 |
agaran |
Megaf: there were issues with server yesterday, was very sluggish with abm and such, was it because of that entity lifetime? |
| 16:18 |
Megaf |
yep |
| 16:18 |
Megaf |
it's fixed now |
| 16:21 |
* Megaf |
watching interestellar |
| 16:21 |
Megaf |
interstellar* |
| 16:21 |
agaran |
nice movie |
| 16:22 |
agaran |
I was thinking about some better idea than increasing entity ttl.. |
| 16:22 |
Megaf |
using mpv, vdpau video output and decoder, and 128MB of cache |
| 16:22 |
Megaf |
so mooth |
| 16:23 |
Megaf |
smooth |
| 16:23 |
agaran |
Megaf: server is still odd.. opening/closing door needs half minute to react.. |
| 16:24 |
Megaf |
really? let me check |
| 16:25 |
Megaf |
<ACTION> 2016-08-01 13:24:37: [Server] CHAT: <Megaf> agaran, memory leak on the server, I have to restart it |
| 16:25 |
agaran |
meh, |
| 16:25 |
agaran |
maybe better to have too short ttl then.. |
| 16:27 |
Megaf |
and now CPU leak |
| 16:27 |
Megaf |
agaran: I will update it from git, hold on |
| 16:27 |
agaran |
I saw -inf,4.5,something as coordinate |
| 16:27 |
agaran |
awesome |
| 16:30 |
Megaf |
compiling the new version already, will also reboot the server after that, just in case |
| 16:34 |
Megaf |
agaran: you can return now if you wish |
| 16:40 |
agaran |
sure, moment |
| 16:42 |
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| 16:43 |
Megaf |
I wish I could use sqlite with wordpress, |
| 16:43 |
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| 16:51 |
agaran |
Megaf: still is a bit lagged.. travelnet queries show up with delay.. or it is just me/ |
| 16:52 |
Megaf |
agaran: man, minetestserver just decided to use lots of CPU |
| 16:52 |
agaran |
Megaf: ah.. :) so I shall stop moving? |
| 16:55 |
Megaf |
agaran: are you exploring new lands? |
| 16:55 |
Megaf |
mapgen could trigger that |
| 16:55 |
agaran |
nope.. wandering under spawn |
| 16:56 |
Megaf |
mght be the mobs mod |
| 16:56 |
Megaf |
will disable it |
| 16:58 |
Megaf |
agaran: server is back to normal I think |
| 16:59 |
agaran |
ping reduced to less than half of previous.. |
| 17:00 |
Megaf |
agaran: still 100% CPU use |
| 17:00 |
Megaf |
agaran: that's why I quit Minetest once |
| 17:00 |
agaran |
hmm watching just farms underground, you placed buches manually? |
| 17:01 |
Megaf |
stayed away from it as long as I could, then my former players begun to insist for me to get a server back |
| 17:01 |
agaran |
I see |
| 17:03 |
Megaf |
and these memory leaks and CPU spikes seem to be totally random |
| 17:03 |
Megaf |
it works everything perfectly today, tomorow CPU will be at 100% for no reason |
| 17:04 |
Megaf |
agaran: anyway, I found a work around the issue, server is back and there is people online already |
| 17:04 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 17:04 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms |
| 17:05 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 17:05 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms |
| 17:05 |
Megaf |
lier, theres two clients there |
| 17:07 |
aix |
is there a mod that uses inventory+ that allows you to add bookmarks? |
| 17:07 |
aix |
nevermind, i got it |
| 17:08 |
aix |
hope this still works |
| 17:09 |
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| 17:34 |
AntumDeluge |
Is there a mod that allows marking spots on the minimap? |
| 17:35 |
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| 17:35 |
est31 |
not, its not possible to do that atm |
| 17:36 |
AntumDeluge |
Okay. Code would have to be changed in the main Minetest source? |
| 17:37 |
est31 |
yes |
| 17:39 |
Zedicius |
Mhm, does anyone know if it's possible to reduce biome size in v7? Or would that require custom lua mapgen? |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:41 |
Void7 |
Zedicius: yes there's a way |
| 17:42 |
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| 17:46 |
Zedicius |
Any idea where I can find how? |
| 17:48 |
Void7 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1092 |
| 17:48 |
Void7 |
heat and humidity are used for biome sizes |
| 17:48 |
Void7 |
Zedicius: ^ |
| 17:56 |
Zedicius |
Interesting... so that's what biomes are chosen. Thanks! |
| 17:58 |
Void7 |
biomes are chosen by the closest heat/humidity |
| 17:59 |
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| 18:00 |
Guest242352 |
Hello |
| 18:02 |
Zedicius |
Yep, I found the chart on the forums. |
| 18:03 |
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| 18:12 |
aix |
https://sr.ht/EuJ6.txt should this be happening? |
| 18:12 |
aix |
every node in the game does not need a stair |
| 18:13 |
shamoanjac |
mese_ore_stair |
| 18:13 |
shamoanjac |
:^) |
| 18:15 |
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| 18:22 |
aix |
it was xdecor |
| 18:24 |
aix |
okay so i removed some stairs which don't work as well, stairs |
| 18:24 |
aix |
like mese |
| 18:24 |
aix |
who the hell wants mese stairs |
| 18:24 |
Shiftus |
Me |
| 18:24 |
Guest22345 |
who the hell doesn't wont mese stairs? |
| 18:25 |
Guest22345 |
want* |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:33 |
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| 18:34 |
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| 18:35 |
shamoanjac |
is there a tool to generate minetest world maps? |
| 18:38 |
aix |
me |
| 18:38 |
aix |
thats why i removed them |
| 18:41 |
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| 18:43 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, i personally like palm trees in the tundra |
| 18:44 |
shamoanjac |
lel |
| 18:44 |
shamoanjac |
I'm trying to install ethereal |
| 18:44 |
shamoanjac |
see if settings and stuff can be tweaked for more consistent generation |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:46 |
shamoanjac |
also since we don't want map reboots we should add tons of different metals right from the beginning just in case |
| 18:47 |
aix |
what's a decent mod for lights? |
| 18:47 |
aix |
i've tried so many and they're either full blocks or a whole modpack |
| 18:47 |
aix |
i just need, say, a bulb |
| 18:48 |
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| 18:48 |
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| 18:53 |
Shiftus |
I think Vanessa's homedecor has some good lighting options. |
| 18:55 |
betterthanyou710 |
hi |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:58 |
aix |
yes but |
| 18:58 |
aix |
it's huge |
| 18:59 |
|
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| 18:59 |
nosrick |
Anyone about? |
| 18:59 |
Void7 |
yes |
| 18:59 |
Void7 |
several people in fact |
| 19:00 |
aix |
many, many people |
| 19:00 |
nosrick |
How would I go about contributing to MineTest? I've got an idea to basically port Minecraft's capabilities system so that people can implement their own stuff, like player level, mana, etc. |
| 19:00 |
nosrick |
It's something I feel MineTest is sorely missing. |
| 19:00 |
sfan5 |
first: it's Minetest not MineTest |
| 19:01 |
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| 19:01 |
nosrick |
Ah, so it is. |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
second: take a look at the C++ code that powers the engine |
| 19:01 |
nosrick |
I have done, a little. |
| 19:01 |
aix |
nosrick: not all of us play mc, please explain what the capabilities system is |
| 19:01 |
aix |
hell i play mc and i have no idea what it is |
| 19:01 |
nosrick |
It's the system that allows for the tracking of variables on a player. |
| 19:02 |
nosrick |
Like level, XP. |
| 19:02 |
nosrick |
It can also be extended to do things like mana, which I've used it for previously in Minecraft. |
| 19:03 |
OldCoder |
<dzho> I guess this is around the time the leakage into -dev started 20:37 <@OldCoder> So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS... |
| 19:03 |
OldCoder |
Not much "leakage" |
| 19:03 |
OldCoder |
Somebody there said there was a flame war; I explained that there was not |
| 19:03 |
OldCoder |
Not much of one |
| 19:07 |
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| 19:09 |
Zedicius |
Anyone here familiar with Technic? Is there any way to determine the 'output' side on a furnace? |
| 19:09 |
betterthanyou710 |
VanessaE you on |
| 19:10 |
betterthanyou710 |
Zedicius: She can probably help you if you see her on |
| 19:11 |
Zedicius |
Owkay, thanks! |
| 19:14 |
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| 19:20 |
aix |
guys |
| 19:20 |
aix |
i need an opinion |
| 19:20 |
aix |
i should say that after i have the scrot, sorry |
| 19:21 |
aix |
https://sr.ht/4Et8.png |
| 19:21 |
aix |
it's better on the inside, i swear |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:27 |
rubenwardy |
The awards mod now has progress bars! http://pasteboard.co/3vxj6tzu5.png |
| 19:27 |
betterthanyou710 |
nice |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:39 |
WSDguy2014 |
Hi. Can you add "minetest-server.exe" on 0.5? Becasue, i don't know how to make my server without using a minetesthosting website :( |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:40 |
agrecascino |
install gentoo |
| 19:40 |
WSDguy2014 |
I'm using OS Windows 7 Ultimate |
| 19:41 |
Amaz |
Just run the .exe with --server after it. |
| 19:41 |
agrecascino |
does anyone know what's wrong with the simple helicopters mod? |
| 19:41 |
agrecascino |
it just teleports me to the middle nowhere |
| 19:41 |
nm0i |
agrecascino: I double that. |
| 19:41 |
nm0i |
Install gentoo |
| 19:42 |
agrecascino |
middle of nowhere* |
| 19:43 |
shamoanjac |
install gentoo |
| 19:44 |
WSDguy2014 |
I'm going to try run my server with good old minetest version 0.4.3... |
| 19:45 |
agrecascino |
WSDguy2014, how old is that build? |
| 19:47 |
WSDguy2014 |
agrecascino, let me think... |
| 19:47 |
shamoanjac |
must be 2012 or something like that |
| 19:47 |
WSDguy2014 |
yeah, released on 2012. |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
WSDguy2014: minetest.exe --server |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
make a shortcut by right clicking the exe file |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
right click the shortcut, click propertie |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
then edit the link to be something like |
| 19:48 |
agrecascino |
minetestserver needs a /reload command |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
"C://path/to/minetest.exe --server" |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
agrecascino: reload mods? Too difficult to add now |
| 19:49 |
shamoanjac |
anyone knows where to find minetestmapper? |
| 19:50 |
shamoanjac |
didn't find anything on the forums nor github? |
| 19:50 |
shamoanjac |
didn't mean to add the question mark to that last one |
| 19:51 |
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| 19:51 |
rubenwardy |
shamoanjac, http://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper |
| 19:54 |
shamoanjac |
welp |
| 19:54 |
shamoanjac |
thanks |
| 19:56 |
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| 19:59 |
agaran |
minetest-0.4.14+repack/src/util/serialize.h:278: void writeF1000(irr::u8*, irr::f32): Assertion `i >= ((float)(s32)((-0x7FFFFFFF - 1) / 1000.0f)) && i <= ((float)(s32)((0x7FFFFFFF) / 1000.0f))' failed. thats some known feature? |
| 20:00 |
WSDguy2014 |
i have to restart computer, to set my language to english (USA) and i will be right back... |
| 20:00 |
sfan5 |
agaran: it failed to serialize a float because it was weird |
| 20:00 |
agaran |
sfan5: ok but.. I did nothing to make weird floats ;) |
| 20:04 |
shamoanjac |
3>windows |
| 20:04 |
shamoanjac |
3>have to restart computer to change locale |
| 20:04 |
shamoanjac |
[laughs in freedom] |
| 20:05 |
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| 20:08 |
agaran |
sfan5: if I got it for second time in 10 minutes? |
| 20:11 |
sfan5 |
check which mods you have installed |
| 20:12 |
agaran |
ones used at moment of crash (any node of these in region of singleplayer I am in) technic and pipeworks and moreores |
| 20:12 |
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| 20:14 |
agaran |
not a big deal just 2 crashes, but if there is something I can do to get more data for debugging, let me know. |
| 20:20 |
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| 20:22 |
WSDguy2014 |
I'm back. |
| 20:22 |
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| 20:26 |
WSDguy2014 |
I don't know, creating server with .exe or .bat? I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate. |
| 20:26 |
rubenwardy |
WSDguy2014, http://superuser.com/questions/413939/how-to-start-a-program-with-command-line-arguments-on-windows-cmd-with-start |
| 20:28 |
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| 20:29 |
WSDguy2014 |
umm, i open cmd and now what? |
| 20:31 |
rubenwardy |
make a file called startserver.bat in your bin folder. Open it using notepad, and enter the following: |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
start /b "" "minetest.exe" --server --worldname "worldname" |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
that should work |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
I really don't recommend using Windows to host a server |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
and I don't recommend hosting a public server on your home network |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
especially a 24/7 one |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
most internet service providers don't allow you to |
| 20:33 |
WSDguy2014 |
i'm just going to try making a private server for my friends. |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
and if they do, then residential networks still suck for this (they usually reset every so often) |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
that's fine then |
| 20:43 |
WSDguy2014 |
Thanks. Now it's working! |
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Calinou |
<shamoanjac> >have to restart computer to change locale |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
sign-out/sign-in is required, not a full reboot |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
at least on Windows 8.1/10 |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
this is pretty much also the case on GNU/Linux |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
where you'll want to sign-out/sign-in to make a full locale change |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
else some applications won't have their language changed until you do that |
| 21:04 |
shamoanjac |
the guy stated he used Windows 7 |
| 21:04 |
shamoanjac |
so I guess that's one of these revolutionary features introduced by Windows 8 |
| 21:05 |
Calinou |
Windows 10 API is quite better than Windows 7 |
| 21:05 |
Calinou |
like, you can get screen DPI easily (since 8) |
| 21:05 |
Calinou |
latest Windows 10 versions support simple ANSI color codes in the console |
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Calinou |
(no 256 colors, though, and even less true color) |
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Zedicius |
Mhm, I assume there's still no way to change a block's textures? I'll have to switch out the node? |
| 21:13 |
shamoanjac |
changing a block's texture should be the next PR on github |
| 21:13 |
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| 21:13 |
shamoanjac |
though my guess is it would imply touching many, many areas of the engine |
| 21:14 |
Zedicius |
So I'll have to assume it won't happen any time soon :) |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
I HATE FORMSPECS SO MUCH |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
Why does background[x,y;w,h;texture] work normally, but when used in the I inventory it messes up? |
| 21:17 |
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| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
I'm using background to display a progress bar below a label, but when I put use it in (i) rather than show_formspec, it fills the entire screen |
| 21:19 |
agaran |
night |
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| 21:24 |
rubenwardy |
why are these backgrounds displayed full screen? https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d1c6455c50f2d4b17c4a131190d0d6c#file-gistfile1-txt-L9-L10 |
| 21:27 |
rubenwardy |
this works as expected |
| 21:27 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d1c6455c50f2d4b17c4a131190d0d6c#file-works-txt |
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| 21:28 |
rubenwardy |
so background[5,5;1,1;gui_formbg.png;true] causes other backgrounds to no work |
| 21:28 |
rubenwardy |
*not |
| 21:29 |
shamoanjac |
rubenwardy, I have problems with textures in formspecs too lel |
| 21:29 |
shamoanjac |
I've opened an issue |
| 21:29 |
shamoanjac |
on the minetest github |
| 21:29 |
shamoanjac |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4396 |
| 21:29 |
rubenwardy |
different issue though |
| 21:30 |
shamoanjac |
could be related |
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Zedicius |
Huh, weird bug. If I try to spawn an item in my inventory, and I have the quick slot selected where it's supposed to appear, it doesn't. |
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aix |
I'm gonna call my brewery "Sky Hi High" |
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| 23:37 |
agrecascino |
hey shamoanjac |
| 23:37 |
agrecascino |
make flans mod for minetest pls |
| 23:39 |
rubenwardy |
Awards 2.3 released! https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4870 |
| 23:39 |
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| 23:51 |
shamoanjac |
flans? |
| 23:51 |
shamoanjac |
as in food? |
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| 23:56 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, flans as in airplanes as in 9/11 |
| 23:57 |
shamoanjac |
wut |
