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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-08-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Void7 but srsly who cares?
00:00 FakeRMS indeed
00:00 TrueAndOnlyRMS terminals connecting to mainframes
00:00 nolsen Void7: People trying to make a living?
00:00 FakeRMS ^
00:00 TrueAndOnlyRMS all this Cloud® thing takes power away from people
00:00 Void7 nolsen: anybody who wants to compile it can.
00:00 nolsen no.
00:00 nolsen They can't.
00:00 Void7 if you don't want to compile it, get the binaries.
00:00 FakeRMS not only that, but closed source actually pushes that
00:00 FakeRMS the whole "always connected" DRM comes to mind
00:01 nolsen Now I understand why DRM exists...
00:01 nolsen and thus, kinda support DRM
00:01 FakeRMS it's just an iteration of bits
00:01 FakeRMS jesus
00:01 FakeRMS jesús, maría y josé
00:01 Void7 /ignore nolsen
00:01 Void7 oops
00:01 TrueAndOnlyRMS How can you not like freedom?
00:01 FakeRMS it's like you want your computing not to do what you want
00:01 FakeRMS it's being a slave
00:01 nolsen TrueAndOnlyRMS: I don't program, so I don't care.
00:02 FakeRMS in a future you might
00:02 rubenwardy I personally would like to make money through programming. And the companies that employ me need to make money - and no open source business models give you the security that proprietary does
00:02 FakeRMS also, even though you don't know, you can always have a friend or someone to audit it for you
00:02 nolsen Thank you rubenwardy.
00:02 shamoanjac would you have done nothing in Nazi Germany because you weren't a Jew (please gib Godwin)
00:02 OldCoder OK
00:02 OldCoder Line is pretty much there
00:02 nolsen shamoanjac: Why would I be a jew?
00:02 est31 !rainbow godwin
00:02 MinetestBot 4go7dw8in
00:02 OldCoder This *is* #minetest and not #flamecentral
00:02 betterthanyou710 rubenwardy: there are lots of companys that hire computer engineers to work for them
00:03 betterthanyou710 they make tons
00:03 FakeRMS rubenwardy, it's not like that, many companies actually get money from FOSS (red hat, for example)
00:03 KaadmY <bbbbb> Void7: Then nobody would buy it.
00:03 KaadmY http://www.aseprite.org/download/
00:03 betterthanyou710 we can talk about it
00:03 betterthanyou710 theres raython
00:03 betterthanyou710 etc
00:03 OldCoder Suppose I ask to hear the specific point that is in dispute
00:03 Fixer you are free to choose software you like, open source is for people who need some sort of freedom, you are free to choose whatever you like
00:03 OldCoder Or the point that is to be decided
00:03 OldCoder Is anybody able to state this?
00:03 est31 open source business models are much harder than proprietary ones
00:03 Void7 if minetest were closed-source, I wouldn't want to do anything with it
00:03 FakeRMS me neither
00:03 KaadmY same
00:03 OldCoder Void7,  what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able
00:03 betterthanyou710 nolsen: why did you say why would i be a jew?
00:03 est31 same for me, in fact
00:04 shamoanjac We, the freedom camp, argue that freedom matters more than the profits of a few oligarchs.
00:04 OldCoder est31,  what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able
00:04 OldCoder shamoanjac,  what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able
00:04 FakeRMS really, the open source community, like you people here, have made a better game than some soulless comapny
00:04 est31 OldCoder, what exactly are you wondering about
00:04 OldCoder est31,  what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able
00:04 FakeRMS it's amazing someone here would defend privative soft
00:04 OldCoder It is a magic trick
00:04 OldCoder Go on, try to do it
00:05 FakeRMS (nobody mentioned me, that means i got off scot-free!)
00:05 shamoanjac the point is whether we're ready to give away freedom in exchange for a false sense of convenience, or even worse, to give away our freedom for the personal benefits of a few other people
00:05 OldCoder shamoanjac, moment
00:05 Fixer proprietary and open source will live forever, this is part of human nature, live with it and stop flamewar
00:05 OldCoder shamoanjac,  what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able
00:05 est31 OldCoder, if its about the thing before about the rules
00:05 shamoanjac I've just done that OldCoder
00:05 betterthanyou710 lol
00:05 OldCoder The wording itself
00:05 rubenwardy I'm not saying that I dislike FOSS
00:05 rubenwardy I love it
00:05 OldCoder is vague and argumentative...
00:05 nolsen If I was a programmer, I would care about freedom, but I am not.
00:05 shamoanjac It's general.
00:05 est31 OldCoder, I dont know who wrote the official channel rules, but I suppose it was c55
00:05 OldCoder State an issue to be decided; a tangle issue
00:05 OldCoder tangible *
00:06 Fixer FOSS is not about money its about your soul
00:06 rubenwardy I like how I can work on a project as big and difficult as Minetest without doing the foundation myself
00:06 SloanOnLinux joined #minetest
00:06 FakeRMS nolsen, but it's not only for programmers
00:06 shamoanjac The FLOSS issue boils down to what I stated
00:06 OldCoder So, nobody is willing and able to state a specific issue?
00:06 FakeRMS you could be a whistleblower
00:06 shamoanjac I have done OldCoder
00:06 OldCoder shamoanjac, you have not
00:06 est31 OldCoder, just dont confuse this channel with #minetest-project or #ventures
00:06 OldCoder Read what you wrote
00:06 FakeRMS or some other person caring about privacy
00:06 SloanOnLinux FLOSS issue?
00:06 betterthanyou710 shamoanjac: please restate it then
00:06 shamoanjac yes
00:06 shamoanjac ok
00:06 OldCoder est31, thank you. You have overlooked something.
00:06 betterthanyou710 whats #ventures?
00:06 OldCoder betterthanyou710, please, PM
00:06 * SloanOnLinux is burned by the flames
00:07 betterthanyou710 k
00:07 betterthanyou710 ....which one
00:07 betterthanyou710 lott or here
00:07 betterthanyou710 or somewhere else
00:07 OldCoder est31, respectfully, your assistance is not required
00:07 FakeRMS nolsen, it's about being able to audit the source and know what your machine is doing
00:07 SloanOnLinux What's going on here?
00:07 OldCoder Note, though...
00:07 shamoanjac Do you think the freedom of being able to know that software doesn't violate your rights and human dignity is more important than making profits?
00:07 KaadmY SloanOnLinux: FLOSS vs. Proprietary
00:07 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, a discussion that will be ended unless people can state...
00:07 shamoanjac Is that specific enough?
00:07 OldCoder a specific hypothesis
00:07 OldCoder Wait
00:07 betterthanyou710 SloanOnLinux: We are talking about how someone can protect closed software
00:08 betterthanyou710 or at least i think we were
00:08 SloanOnLinux OldCoder: where did the L come from?
00:08 betterthanyou710 it got sooooo out of hand
00:08 OldCoder shamoanjac, state that in tangible terms. What is the tangible point at issue?
00:08 betterthanyou710 i dont know what the topic is anymore :P
00:08 FakeRMS OldCoder, the problem is that someone is thinking that closed source is desirable
00:08 SloanOnLinux Are we talking about making Minetest closed source?
00:08 shamoanjac What do you mean by "tangible"?
00:08 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, no
00:08 Fixer it is always nice to have alternatives, especially open source O/S and applications, proprietary made software for masses has big problems (for example: race to the buttom of UIs and features, control over user etc)
00:08 KaadmY s/buttom/button
00:08 SloanOnLinux Look, if you want closed source go buy minecraft
00:08 Fixer buttom
00:08 * OldCoder will start to kick-ban shortly [temporarily] if there is no consensus on a specific point to discuss
00:08 shamoanjac no SloanOnLinux, our friend nolsen believes that open source is ultimately bad because it allows people to steal your code
00:08 FakeRMS ^
00:08 Fixer have fun and good night
00:09 FakeRMS I did buy minecraft, and I regret it at every minute
00:09 shamoanjac you didn't reply to me OldCoder
00:09 Void7 KaadmY: bottom, not button
00:09 est31 OldCoder, i dont want to assist, I just want to point something out
00:09 shamoanjac what do you mean by "tangible"?
00:09 OldCoder If the issue is "Is Open Source Good or Evil? Is Closed Source Good or Evil?" no, we're not going to go there
00:09 SloanOnLinux There's no such thing as stealing code, if someone takes your code you still have your code
00:09 OldCoder est31, you did so, twice, and the implied statement is incorrect
00:09 nolsen shamoanjac: Nice, you change my words around.
00:09 FakeRMS it's like the sharing v. privay thing
00:09 SloanOnLinux If someone steals your watch you no longer have your watch
00:09 shamoanjac I haven't, nolsen
00:09 rubenwardy That isn't what nolsen said
00:09 rubenwardy Both FOSS and prop can be good
00:09 shamoanjac This is exactly what he said
00:09 rubenwardy nope
00:10 OldCoder shamoanjac, your point has scrolled up. Is there a specific tangible point to discuss?
00:10 OldCoder If the issue is "Is Open Source Good or Evil? Is Closed Source Good or Evil?" no, we're not going to go there
00:10 OldCoder Tangible issue, please
00:10 FakeRMS prop can, but you can never know if your prop soft is actually good or not
00:10 OldCoder Hm
00:10 SloanOnLinux Do I have to clone minetest just in case?
00:10 shamoanjac I fail to see how that isn't tangible
00:10 OldCoder shamoanjac, which?
00:10 rubenwardy Windows is bad prop software, but not all is bad
00:10 nolsen Open source is fine if the software is free.
00:10 betterthanyou710 lol sloan get ready for the apocalypse
00:11 nolsen But if you are a business, making profit from software, open source can hurt your profits.
00:11 OldCoder This might be a valuable discussion. But if there is no consensus on a specific point to discuss I'm going to go into kick mode.
00:11 Void7 hm, someone PM me when this flamewar is over
00:11 * KaadmY runs
00:11 Void7 left #minetest
00:11 OldCoder Last chance
00:11 OldCoder One person
00:11 OldCoder Only 1st
00:11 FakeRMS rubenwardy, you can't know it
00:11 est31 GPL is even good for commercial software
00:11 OldCoder State a specific point, please
00:11 OldCoder Is that the point?
00:11 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder: Point to focus on:
00:11 OldCoder Shall that be discussed? It is a good one
00:11 FakeRMS nolsen, it can only if your product isn't as good as the free alternative
00:11 OldCoder Right
00:11 OldCoder Shall we discuss
00:11 OldCoder <est31> GPL is even good for commercial software
00:11 OldCoder Have at it
00:11 nolsen no.
00:11 FakeRMS y
00:11 OldCoder Focus
00:12 betterthanyou710 first question
00:12 OldCoder Then state point you wish to discuss
00:12 betterthanyou710 whats GPL? xD
00:12 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder: Another open source program called GZDoom has smooth character movement and external movement, minetest does not
00:12 shamoanjac GPL is not good for commercial software
00:12 OldCoder shamoanjac, good
00:12 yang2003 joined #minetest
00:12 OldCoder Explain why it is not
00:12 nolsen Atleast rubenwardy is being a sensible person.
00:12 OldCoder Others pause a moment
00:12 nolsen +1
00:12 paramat left #minetest
00:12 OldCoder shamoanjac, you have a moment to comment
00:12 OldCoder Elaborate
00:12 OldCoder No comment?
00:12 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Make your own version of minetest and keeo it's source closed
00:12 shamoanjac dude
00:12 shamoanjac let me type
00:12 nolsen SloanOnLinux: I can't program.
00:12 OldCoder OK
00:13 rubenwardy things are never black and white
00:13 nolsen I don't care about programming, programming is too complex for me.
00:13 SloanOnLinux nolsen: find people who want minetest closed source
00:13 FakeRMS nolsen, even if you can't open source is good for you
00:13 SloanOnLinux You can call it closedtest if you like
00:13 betterthanyou710 shamoanjac have to be fast here
00:13 nolsen Minetest is free, so it doesn't matter.
00:13 DonBatman joined #minetest
00:13 OldCoder One point only or we cannot discuss this here
00:13 betterthanyou710 no one can keep up with old coder but u gotta try
00:13 OldCoder DonBatman, Hi
00:13 shamoanjac nolsen said it, although with the wrong words. People being able to replicate software at will makes any commercial enterprise unviable
00:13 rubenwardy ffs, nolsen never said that FOSS is bad
00:13 shamoanjac at least in respect to the sale of the software itself
00:13 OldCoder Pause, please
00:13 OldCoder OK does anybody contest shamoanjac ?
00:13 est31 yes
00:13 OldCoder <shamoanjac> nolsen said it, although with the wrong words. People being able to replicate software at will makes any commercial enterprise unviable
00:13 OldCoder est31, please respond
00:13 betterthanyou710 nien!
00:13 betterthanyou710 i think
00:14 OldCoder will others let est31 respond?
00:14 rubenwardy needs man power, which needs money
00:14 betterthanyou710 ken
00:14 shamoanjac 3,3Red Hat does not, for example, sell their operating system, but rather services parallel to it
00:14 OldCoder allow est31 to type
00:14 betterthanyou710 oops
00:14 est31 the GPL is good for commercial software because then you can sell the ability to use it in closed source software
00:14 OldCoder Who contests that?
00:14 OldCoder And is ready to type?
00:14 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, thank you :-)
00:14 shamoanjac I'm pretty sure the GPL disallows that
00:14 betterthanyou710 this is a offical debate
00:14 shamoanjac apart for the LGPL
00:14 betterthanyou710 im willing to take over as judge
00:14 OldCoder GPL prohibits commercial software?
00:14 OldCoder Who says? Anybody wish to comment?
00:14 betterthanyou710 lol Sloan
00:15 betterthanyou710 i wish i thought of that xD
00:15 shamoanjac this is not what est31 said
00:15 est31 shamoanjac, no, you can license something under GPL, and make  second licenses apart from the GPL
00:15 est31 the GPL is non-exclusive
00:15 OldCoder Dual Licensing IOW
00:15 est31 BUT you need to let your contributors sign a CLA
00:15 OldCoder If others comment, please focus on a specific point
00:15 PhonyRMS joined #minetest
00:15 OldCoder So...
00:16 PhonyRMS didn't read the answer
00:16 nolsen est31: What if you don't?
00:16 nolsen Does these license have any legal value?
00:16 OldCoder GPL can be used in closed source. If it is bad, who is it bad for? Comments?
00:16 est31 then your code wont be merged into the master branch
00:16 nolsen They are just pieces of text.
00:16 OldCoder nolsen, Yes; speaking objectively
00:16 SloanOnLinux Let's just discuss making player damage knockback and water flow push
00:16 rubenwardy The need for FOSS: -good software needs full time developers, and full time developers need to be paid. Not everything worthy of getting money for can have a service for it (eg: singleplayer games like Skyrim), and users don't tend to donate much
00:16 betterthanyou710 am i allowed to put everyone on probation for 2 months yet?
00:16 OldCoder They are indirectly enforceable through DMCA
00:16 betterthanyou710 and 5 hours community service?
00:16 betterthanyou710 all stand for the judge!
00:16 OldCoder Licenses are not copyrights though
00:16 rubenwardy 0ad is probably the only free game to get significant donations
00:16 est31 OldCoder,  GPL can't be used in closed source never said that, said it can be used in commercial software
00:16 rubenwardy *the need for prop
00:16 est31 commercial != closed source
00:16 betterthanyou710 awwww i loveeee 0ad
00:16 betterthanyou710 such a great game
00:17 OldCoder est31, I agree and understood
00:17 est31 commercial == made for money
00:17 betterthanyou710 talked to the developers
00:17 shamoanjac SloanOnLinux, doesn't Minetest have knockback already?
00:17 betterthanyou710 i need to update
00:17 OldCoder GPL can certainly be used in commercial software
00:17 OldCoder Is there another point to be settled?
00:17 SloanOnLinux shamoanjac: I don't think so
00:17 OldCoder Not just LGPL; full GPL
00:17 nolsen est31: But someone can buy your program, then change the code, rename it to something else, and sell it.
00:17 nolsen Making you loose profit
00:17 OldCoder nolsen, correct
00:17 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, does a player get knocked back when attacked?
00:17 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, wait
00:17 OldCoder nolsen, go on
00:17 OldCoder Others, let nolsen finish
00:17 OldCoder nolsen, so?
00:17 OldCoder Go on
00:18 KaadmY "freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things."
00:18 PhonyRMS nolsen, then he'd just get little pennies
00:18 nolsen PhonyRMS: right.
00:18 betterthanyou710 maybe a dime or two
00:18 nolsen the original owner will.
00:18 OldCoder nolsen, is it the right of a company to decide what it will start with?
00:18 est31 nolsen, yes, you dont sell licenses to your users, but to people who want to make changes to the code and want to keep the changes to themselves
00:18 est31 thats the way you make money
00:18 PhonyRMS nolsen, because it's a first-timer thing, that's why minecraft is so big and minetest not, even though minetest I'd say is better
00:18 betterthanyou710 i gtg
00:18 betterthanyou710 be back soon
00:18 OldCoder betterthanyou710, o/
00:18 OldCoder betterthanyou710/
00:18 betterthanyou710 i want to hear this xD
00:18 est31 nolsen, like for example the old licensing model for qt
00:19 OldCoder Is the question "Is FOSS morally bad" or is it "How do you make money from it" ?
00:19 OldCoder Focus
00:19 est31 qt under gpl and you could get a commercial license for money
00:19 OldCoder Which is the question?
00:19 OldCoder Is the question "Is FOSS morally bad" or is it "How do you make money from it" ?
00:19 nolsen OldCoder: ladder.
00:19 OldCoder nolsen, good!
00:19 OldCoder Progress!
00:19 OldCoder If there is a noisy debate about "It is not possible"
00:19 OldCoder THAT, shamoanjac, is a tangible issue
00:19 OldCoder It can be settled
00:19 SloanOnLinux Why don't we just put donate links and encourage people to give a buck or two, and bountysource links?
00:20 PhonyRMS like redhat does, or though donation, issue settled
00:20 KaadmY "Convey the object code by offering access from a designated place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equivalent access to the Corresponding Source in the same way through the same place at no further charge."
00:20 OldCoder An issue that can't be settled is known as non-falsifiable
00:20 nolsen SloanOnLinux: Because nobody aint got time for that.
00:20 KaadmY terasology also has code bounties
00:20 PhonyRMS there's always a way to take money from it
00:20 OldCoder So, donations... they don't work; everybody agrees?
00:20 OldCoder Ancilliary merchandise... may be
00:20 SloanOnLinux I dont agree..
00:20 shamoanjac donations do work
00:20 OldCoder Good!
00:20 PhonyRMS I don't agree
00:20 OldCoder Tangible point
00:20 PhonyRMS donations work
00:20 shamoanjac the FSF is alive after 30 years
00:20 OldCoder FSF is different
00:21 PhonyRMS most FOSS projects also get enough to get by
00:21 OldCoder And I was there at the start BTW
00:21 Void7 joined #minetest
00:21 * OldCoder does know the history
00:21 PhonyRMS it's no microsoft, but it works
00:21 OldCoder Then...
00:21 nolsen OldCoder: What are you? 50 years old?
00:21 SloanOnLinux People pay for Minecraft, they should be kind enough to pay a little for Minetest... Although I don't have money to pay.
00:21 OldCoder Donations, crowdfunding
00:21 DonBatman hi OldCoder
00:21 OldCoder DonBatman, Hi!
00:21 OldCoder are one approach
00:21 KaadmY Void7: flamewar not over yet
00:21 Void7 oh
00:21 Void7 well then
00:21 OldCoder Ancilliary merchandise is another
00:21 Void7 left #minetest
00:21 rubenwardy Linux is an example of an excellent FOSS project, companies pay employees to develop it together. The best projects are ones where companies work together. Free gaming doesn't benefit from this unfortunately
00:21 OldCoder KaadmY, it is
00:21 est31 wikipedia is donation run
00:21 DonBatman And Hi everyone else
00:22 est31 and its damn successful for them
00:22 shamoanjac hi DonBatman
00:22 OldCoder There is something that huge companies do
00:22 OldCoder Embrace and Extend
00:22 nolsen Ubuntu forever.
00:22 nolsen Ubuntu 16.10
00:22 OldCoder Considered unethical but it works
00:22 KaadmY and wikipedia has a huge banner telling you do donate now
00:22 shamoanjac kek
00:22 est31 does ubuntu make real money?
00:22 OldCoder In Embrace and Extend you basically take over the FOSS project
00:22 OldCoder Co-opt it
00:22 est31 I believe they mostly live from donations of their boss
00:22 nolsen est31: They are own by cannocal, which makes money through other stuff.
00:22 PhonyRMS it has canonical behind
00:22 est31 err I've mean canonical
00:23 PhonyRMS yeah, that's why GNU GPL encourages forks
00:23 OldCoder Individual donations, Corporate funding, Embrace and Extend, and Added Value
00:23 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, so basically someone is the boss of the FOSS project?
00:23 est31 canonical isn't really profitable afaik
00:23 OldCoder Which is similar
00:23 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, explain
00:23 OldCoder What is clear is that FOSS is here to stay after decades...
00:23 OldCoder and people *will* find ways to profit from it
00:23 OldCoder Some ethical, some not
00:24 OldCoder Linux is in everything now
00:24 OldCoder Your phones, even your TV sets and appliances
00:24 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, I mean if one person was in charge of the project and had help from people
00:24 OldCoder Did particular Linux developers benefit? Probably not
00:24 KaadmY heh
00:24 nolsen OldCoder: Sounds like the horror stories you get when you install Java.
00:24 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, go on
00:24 OldCoder nolsen, go on two
00:24 nolsen "It's in your car, it's in your microwave, it's in your TV"
00:24 OldCoder nolsen, go on too *
00:24 nolsen "Java is everywhere"
00:24 OldCoder *Slowly* make your point and let others respond
00:24 nolsen Sounds scary.
00:24 KaadmY imagine if linux changes its license
00:24 OldCoder Java was a fad
00:24 OldCoder KaadmY, cannot
00:25 KaadmY OldCoder: exactly
00:25 OldCoder Embrace and Extend
00:25 OldCoder is the danger
00:25 SloanOnLinux I don't find that unethical, but it's sorta too late to do that unless we vote
00:25 nolsen Imagine if Microsoft bought linux.
00:25 OldCoder nolsen, SCO tried to take it
00:25 est31 http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off​-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Reading-the-tea​-leaves-with-Canonical-s-financial-statement
00:25 OldCoder They spent 10 years
00:25 est31 "All told, during the 2013 financial year, these revenue streams gave the Canonical Group a gross profit of of $60.6 million and a net loss of $21.3 million."
00:25 ElectronLibre joined #minetest
00:25 OldCoder Trying to get the "rights" to Linux
00:25 est31 $21 million losses in 2013
00:25 SloanOnLinux I mean, it's more organized, and if someone else wants to change it they can take charge of their own
00:25 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, is this a hypothetical small project? Commercial? Startup?
00:25 nolsen OldCoder: Are they still going?
00:26 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder: Just an alternative organization method
00:26 OldCoder nolsen, SCO spent $1B and ceased largely to exist. They were laughed out of existence.
00:26 OldCoder $1B on legal fees to get Linux
00:26 nolsen SCO?
00:26 SloanOnLinux OldcoderK If I were to vote for a minetest 'CEO
00:26 OldCoder Linux, it was understood...
00:26 OldCoder SCO was...
00:26 est31 SCO the vulture corp
00:26 OldCoder I was involved with them in 1981
00:26 OldCoder Long story
00:26 est31 really really evil guys
00:26 OldCoder They had a PC Linux
00:26 OldCoder They had a PC UNIX *
00:26 OldCoder At the time
00:26 SloanOnLinux ' I would vote for Oldcoder or c11
00:26 OldCoder They had the main commercial UNIX for PC
00:26 nolsen Shanghai Cooperation Organisation?
00:26 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, please; story
00:27 OldCoder Santa Cruz Operation
00:27 SloanOnLinux c55*
00:27 OldCoder Then UNIX for PC went away
00:27 OldCoder because of Linux
00:27 OldCoder <SCO> We think we own Linux
00:27 nolsen Does anyone even still use UNIX?
00:27 OldCoder <SCO> Just because
00:27 OldCoder nolsen, yes; it became Mac OS X
00:27 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Mac is unix based
00:27 OldCoder Mac OS X is based on BSD
00:27 * OldCoder was at B at the time
00:27 est31 nolsen, all the bsds are unix based
00:27 OldCoder This was 35 years ago...
00:27 OldCoder UNIX was born around 1970
00:27 est31 and I think netflix is using 100% bsd
00:27 OldCoder I started using it in 1976
00:28 nolsen OldCoder: Yet, people think Windows was the first OS.
00:28 OldCoder BSD evolved out of it
00:28 OldCoder nolsen, few do; even the kids
00:28 nolsen My parents do ._.
00:28 OldCoder Windows is pretty young
00:28 nolsen Or I don't know.
00:28 OldCoder nolsen, your parents... Huh. Don't they remember DOS?
00:28 nolsen I know my parents hate linux.
00:28 OldCoder Why do they feel this way?
00:28 nolsen Who knows.
00:28 * OldCoder shrugs
00:28 shamoanjac I'm pretty sure nolsen's parents are too young to remember DOS
00:28 OldCoder They use it, tell them that
00:28 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Why do your parents hate linux?
00:28 OldCoder :-)
00:28 OldCoder It is fine if they do
00:29 nolsen SloanOnLinux: I don't know.
00:29 OldCoder Point is, it is here
00:29 nolsen I can never get an answer why.
00:29 OldCoder And profitable...
00:29 SloanOnLinux And my mom absolutely refuses to try it
00:29 OldCoder Now...
00:29 OldCoder But SloanOnLinux does she have Android ? :-)
00:29 OldCoder Tell her Android is Linux
00:29 OldCoder <mom> O_O
00:29 nolsen Oh my god, I have to tell this story....
00:29 SloanOnLinux OldCoder: Nope
00:29 OldCoder nolsen, go on
00:29 SloanOnLinux She just uses a windows 7 laptop
00:29 nolsen One day, she thought her Samsung Galaxy Tablet, was running Windows.
00:29 nolsen and not android.
00:29 OldCoder Oi
00:30 nolsen This is next-level ignorance.
00:30 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, when the laptop starts spitting blue screens and error messages it'll get linuxed
00:30 nolsen Nobody can get more ignorant than that.
00:30 OldCoder nolsen, so tell her it is Linux
00:30 SloanOnLinux nolsen: I'm sorry
00:30 OldCoder Do not use the word ignorant
00:30 nolsen OldCoder: I think I did, multiple times.
00:31 OldCoder Heh
00:31 OldCoder Shrug, then
00:31 OldCoder And learn
00:31 nolsen I think I get some ignorant response.
00:31 nolsen Or "I don't care"
00:31 nolsen or something like that.
00:31 PhonyRMS nolsen, is it hereditary? why do you hate freedom?
00:31 OldCoder nolsen, then care about her for what she is
00:31 nolsen OldCoder: lol no.
00:31 OldCoder PhonyRMS, No Ad Hominem
00:31 PhonyRMS just a joke
00:31 nolsen I mock her ignorance xD
00:31 nolsen Sometimes.
00:31 OldCoder nolsen, and learn; get the facts before you assess positions
00:31 OldCoder nolsen, stupid is as stupid does. Not knows. That is what you focus on.\
00:32 OldCoder nolsen, if you wish to be sharp yourself, assume there is something you may have missed
00:32 MinetestBot [git] t4im -> minetest/minetest_game: Doors: Fix potential crashes, code improvements 00c2dde https://git.io/v6ebK (2016-08-01T01:21:57+01:00)
00:32 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Bones: Improve bones textures 4fba897 https://git.io/v6eb6 (2016-08-01T01:20:27+01:00)
00:32 OldCoder MinetestBot, thank you :-)
00:32 SloanOnLinux So, Minetest is not about to get monetized, right?
00:32 nolsen OldCoder: One time I installed linux aside of windows on her laptop.
00:32 nolsen She complained.
00:32 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, it is, in fact
00:32 nolsen For no reason.
00:32 OldCoder nolsen, it is...
00:32 OldCoder Hm
00:32 nolsen She still had her winblows...
00:32 OldCoder It depends
00:32 nolsen But she complains
00:32 OldCoder I had somebody who complained when I talked about Linux
00:33 OldCoder <windowslover> Now fix my Windows
00:33 OldCoder <windowslover> Now fix my Windows
00:33 OldCoder <windowslover> Now fix my Windows
00:33 OldCoder <OldCoder> This is the last time
00:33 OldCoder <windowslover> Now fix my Windows
00:33 OldCoder <OldCoder> You're getting Linux Mint
00:33 OldCoder <windowslover> Satan Get The Hence
00:33 nolsen OldCoder: My grandmother made me fix her windows computer all the time, it was annoying.
00:33 OldCoder <OldCoder> It is free
00:33 nolsen One time, SHE DELETED WINDOWS.
00:33 nolsen It wouldn't boot.
00:33 OldCoder <OldCoder> Videos, email, touchscreen, Wii, radio, the works
00:33 OldCoder Exactly
00:33 octacian lol
00:33 OldCoder This person... Windows 8 deleted itself
00:34 OldCoder om boot
00:34 OldCoder Enough
00:34 octacian I quit windows when I got a broken registry
00:34 nolsen Another time was when she made all .exe programs be downloaded through IE.
00:34 OldCoder <OldCoder> You are getting Mint
00:34 OldCoder <windowslover> Hm. Wait... I get it...
00:34 OldCoder <windowslover> It is a Free Windows!
00:34 shamoanjac the hell
00:34 OldCoder <windowslover> Now I can conceptualize it
00:34 OldCoder <windowslover> It is a Free Windows!
00:34 OldCoder And that is what he settled on
00:34 shamoanjac are these real IRC logs?
00:34 nolsen OldCoder: Every time I talk about Linux being a kernel, in front of my parents, they think I'm talking about POPCORN.
00:34 OldCoder <windowslover> I told my friends and they want the Free Windows
00:34 Void7 joined #minetest
00:35 OldCoder No, they are verbal IRL discussions
00:35 OldCoder Paraphrased for fun
00:35 shamoanjac oh I was afraid lel
00:35 OldCoder Pretty accurate
00:35 OldCoder He did call it a Free Windows
00:35 OldCoder Not the first person
00:35 OldCoder shamoanjac, nolsen people need to be able to position things
00:35 octacian BTW, OldCoder, thanks for that info u gave me a while ago about config files and and optional dependencies. I am doing some pretty neat stuff as a result of that..
00:35 SloanOnLinux Well it is, sorta
00:35 OldCoder octacian, sure
00:35 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, well, indirectly
00:35 nolsen OldCoder: My grandmother is using Ubuntu 16.04, and she is complaning.
00:36 OldCoder <linux> I am not offended to be called a Free Windows
00:36 OldCoder nolsen, about what?
00:36 nolsen OldCoder: About linux.
00:36 octacian Kubuntu seems better for windows users.
00:36 nolsen I had bad experiences with KDE.
00:36 nolsen With its segfaults.
00:36 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Examples please?
00:36 * SloanOnLinux is a KDE user
00:36 octacian I've never used it, just judging from appearence though
00:37 SloanOnLinux I wanna see if you have the same problems as I do
00:37 OldCoder So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS...
00:37 OldCoder Its purpose, what is it good for, can you make money from it
00:37 rubenwardy <3 xfce
00:37 OldCoder But this is NOT 1997 any longer, kids
00:37 OldCoder Homework: Google Halloween Documents ESR
00:38 OldCoder <Microsoft> We must position Linux as terrorist tool
00:38 OldCoder Those days are gone
00:38 SloanOnLinux OldCoder: I've heard of those
00:38 OldCoder FOSS and Closed Source are BOTH here to stay and with each other to play
00:38 SloanOnLinux Now microsoft LUBBERS Linux!
00:38 nolsen OldCoder: That reminds me an article where a governer bans the use of iPhones because "THEY R ON THE SIDEZ OF THETERRORSTS"
00:38 nolsen Because the encryption
00:38 OldCoder nolsen, yes
00:38 KaadmY well
00:38 OldCoder That started in 1995 with Clinton
00:38 rubenwardy Minetest could do with some full time devs -
00:39 nolsen Who even uses iPhones, anyways.
00:39 KaadmY i wouldn't mind getting iPhones banned
00:39 octacian Me too
00:39 OldCoder rubenwardy, we are doing OK
00:39 OldCoder MS positioned Linux as terrorist until about 10 years ago
00:39 OldCoder Now one of the major distros is MS-Linux
00:39 nolsen I contribute to minetest here and there.
00:39 octacian Ubuntu FTW!
00:39 OldCoder Little known fact, yes, there is an MS-Linux
00:39 SloanOnLinux Yus now zey <3sssss Linux
00:39 nolsen Usually by creating issues and documentation
00:39 nolsen Since I can't program.
00:39 OldCoder nolsen, you can if you want to
00:39 OldCoder Some prefer other levels
00:39 nolsen OldCoder: I tried.
00:40 OldCoder nolsen, it is hardly a lifetime settled issue
00:40 OldCoder What language was it?
00:40 octacian nolsen, lua is actually quite simple. Have u taken a look at rubenwardy's modding "book?"
00:40 OldCoder Or platform?
00:40 nolsen OldCoder: My first was python.
00:40 nolsen No, that wasn't my first.
00:40 betterthanyou710 hi
00:40 OldCoder nolsen, try other languages or MT mods
00:40 Volkj joined #minetest
00:40 nolsen my first was...I don't remember
00:40 KaadmY python is really easy
00:40 OldCoder betterthanyou710 here will mod
00:40 SloanOnLinux Hi betterthanyou710
00:40 shamoanjac I'd say Lua is pretty bad for learning
00:40 OldCoder shamoanjac, for some
00:40 KaadmY by first was basic-256 >.<
00:40 OldCoder For 12 year olds it is fine
00:40 OldCoder <- BASIC
00:40 OldCoder Around 1972
00:40 nolsen OldCoder: I try to learn, I read it, I forgot about it later on.
00:40 nolsen forget*
00:40 KaadmY basic-256
00:40 shamoanjac my first language was C, when I was 12
00:40 KaadmY not basic
00:41 octacian Lua is pretty good honestly. I'm learning C++ though. More useful.
00:41 OldCoder nolsen, then focus on media
00:41 shamoanjac of course I didn't understand pointers at that age
00:41 betterthanyou710 <OldCoder> betterthanyou710 here will mod what does this mean?
00:41 OldCoder Are you a writer? Artist?
00:41 OldCoder betterthanyou710, you will learn some Lua
00:41 nolsen I'm not an artist.
00:41 betterthanyou710 sweet
00:41 nolsen I can't even write (on paper)
00:41 betterthanyou710 hopefully you will teach me
00:41 KaadmY http://basic256.org/index_en
00:41 nolsen lol, basic language.
00:41 nolsen Wasn't that used in commodore 64?
00:41 Void7 I don't even know WHAT this discussion is about ._.
00:41 KaadmY maybe
00:42 * KaadmY agrees with Void7
00:42 OldCoder nolsen, well, where do you feel most creative and competent?
00:42 nolsen OldCoder: I actually lost my creativity.
00:42 OldCoder betterthanyou710, you can pick it up easy
00:42 OldCoder nolsen, how did this happen?
00:42 Void7 also java was my first language in 1972, used it with HTML and CSS
00:42 nolsen OldCoder: I don't know.
00:42 nolsen I guess I really never had it.
00:42 shamoanjac kek Void7
00:42 OldCoder Void7, it is friendly. And welcome Old Timer.
00:42 OldCoder But there was no HTML-CSS in 1972
00:42 KaadmY ;_;
00:42 OldCoder The Internet was uucp
00:42 OldCoder KaadmY, ?
00:43 OldCoder Why the tears?
00:43 KaadmY because Void7
00:43 OldCoder Void7, what?
00:43 nolsen TIL ;_; was a tear faced
00:43 nolsen teared fear
00:43 shamoanjac I remember back in 1954 when I was running some sweet Haskell
00:43 octacian Did u know u can make GUI Applications with Lua? I mean, I'm still going with C++, but..
00:43 OldCoder shamoanjac, you were not
00:43 OldCoder octacian, yep
00:43 shamoanjac that's kind of the point lmao
00:43 KaadmY lua: https://love2d.org/
00:43 OldCoder Ah
00:43 rubenwardy octacian: just libraries
00:43 OldCoder Yes, Jesse uses Love2
00:43 OldCoder Yes, Jesse uses Love2D *
00:43 Void7 octacian: i've used Love2D
00:43 rubenwardy Lua can use C libraries if you do it right
00:44 OldCoder A Python coder age 21
00:44 octacian rubenwardy: you sure about that? WireShark seems to be Lua
00:44 nolsen OldCoder: I tried learning, but I'm too impatient on working on a program, than learning the language.
00:44 rubenwardy You need to do something special with binding
00:44 rubenwardy but you can just use require()
00:45 rubenwardy So yeah, octacian can be used to make GUIs just like any other language
00:45 rubenwardy oops
00:45 OldCoder nolsen, right... so what clicks with you?
00:45 rubenwardy anyway, gtg o/
00:45 OldCoder octacian is a GUI framework, then
00:45 OldCoder There are worse fates
00:45 OldCoder rubenwardy, o/
00:45 octacian lol
00:45 rubenwardy by octacian I meant Lua :/
00:45 OldCoder We no
00:45 nolsen rubenwardy: Don't take an arrow to the knee.
00:45 OldCoder See you
00:45 Hijiri replace modding API with haskell imo
00:46 octacian No!
00:46 OldCoder Arrow to the knee Source Code is free MS loves you and me
00:46 octacian lol again
00:46 Void7 replace modding api with source-code modifications -_-
00:46 octacian Why is stuff like DOS so interesting?
00:46 nolsen !server [TUSS]
00:46 MinetestBot nolsen: [TUSS] The Ultimate Survival Server | minetest.nolsen.xyz | Clients: 1/15, 1/2 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 152ms
00:46 nolsen I spent time creating that server :\
00:47 octacian BTW, has anyone tried removing the grid in MT and instead placing blocks directly relative to the player?
00:47 nolsen And only 1 user.
00:47 nolsen ONE
00:47 nolsen one regular.
00:47 KaadmY octacian: can't
00:47 octacian nolsen, lol you got a .xyz too!
00:47 octacian KaadmY, why?
00:47 KaadmY octacian: the world is stored as a grid
00:47 KaadmY positions aren't known for each block
00:47 KaadmY they have to be placed by grid boundaries
00:48 Void7 why does minetest need to re-download media every connect ;_;
00:48 nolsen Void7: It doesn't.
00:48 octacian KaadmY, not fully removing the grid, but simply allowing blocks to be placed at different angles which would be saved in other properties.
00:48 nolsen It is cached
00:48 nolsen unless the server restarted
00:48 octacian Void7: it's cached. Or else I'd be mad.
00:48 KaadmY octacian: you could use entities
00:48 Void7 yes
00:48 Void7 !server pixture
00:48 MinetestBot Void7: Pixture game server | pixture.quelcom.xyz | Clients: 4/10, 1/9 | Version: 0.4.14 / pixture | Ping: 17ms
00:48 KaadmY but then they'd be much less reliable, no ambient occlusion, shading, etc
00:49 octacian KaadmY: that's pretty inefficient when it comes to resources
00:49 KaadmY octacian: yes
00:49 KaadmY that's the only way though with the current API
00:49 KaadmY and it'd take a tremendous amount of effort to change that
00:49 OldCoder <octacian> Why is stuff like DOS so interesting
00:49 Tmanyo joined #minetest
00:49 KaadmY ^ because DOS
00:49 OldCoder Because it's functional but minimal
00:49 octacian How hard would something like minetest.set_texture(pos, side, newtexture) be?
00:49 DonBatman octacian I am working on a game that makes it so you can not dig or place nodes unless I code it to
00:49 Void7 roughly many.
00:50 OldCoder Void7, are you really of that generation? 1972?
00:50 Void7 no
00:50 OldCoder Or joking?
00:50 Void7 i was joking
00:50 OldCoder Ah
00:50 OldCoder OK
00:50 nolsen The second I join my server..I get summoned in Dark Souls 1.
00:50 OldCoder I'm literal, you know
00:50 octacian DonBatman: that makes no sense.
00:50 DonBatman It will make sense when it is done
00:50 octacian ohhhh, for like adventure maps?
00:51 Hijiri good chat logs in here
00:51 Hijiri check your freedoms proprietary scum
00:51 DonBatman Yup
00:51 octacian Once again. I'd like something like minetest.set_node_property(pos, {...})
00:52 octacian That way you could simply set all nodes in an area to unbreakable or have a tool to modify it block-by-block
00:52 shamoanjac isn't that literally what meta does octacian ?
00:52 octacian shamoanjac: physical properties.
00:52 Hijiri I remember seeing a github issue about having a node definition key in the metadata, for replacing parts of the definition
00:53 shamoanjac you mean something like an "editable bit" for every node?
00:53 Void7 replacing tiles would require many code.
00:53 KaadmY such code*
00:53 octacian Yeah. That way I could set nodes to be unbreakable without registering a completely new node.
00:53 Hijiri shamoanjac: being able to change an individual node's texture, softness, etc. through meta
00:53 KaadmY octacian: you can have a can_dig function
00:54 KaadmY that checks it it should be breakable
00:54 Void7 KaadmY: but you'd have to store if every node is breakable -_D
00:54 shamoanjac you can change an individual node's texture through meta
00:54 octacian Yes. Texture would be really nice. (e.g. changing backs of computers in my mod, digicompute)
00:54 octacian Wait, you CAN?
00:54 shamoanjac yes
00:54 KaadmY shamoanjac: since when
00:54 Hijiri you can?
00:54 shamoanjac that's how signs work
00:54 Void7 but what would happen if you change the collision box?
00:54 Hijiri signs use entities
00:54 KaadmY shamoanjac: sings don't
00:54 Hijiri to display the text
00:54 Void7 shamoanjac: signs add an entity in front
00:54 KaadmY they use entities
00:55 everamzah signs_lib
00:55 shamoanjac welp I need to re-read the source
00:55 octacian yeah, they use entities. I guess I could do that too, but once again.. entities...
00:55 everamzah regular signs are nodeboxes + infotext metadata
00:55 Void7 "hmm, why does the front of my computer disable shading when it's on"
00:55 octacian signs lib works just like painting, with the entities
00:55 KaadmY everamzah: regular signs aren't even nodeboxes
00:55 everamzah oh
00:55 KaadmY they're signlike, which is a single plane
00:56 octacian KaadmY: what about this can_dig function?
00:56 everamzah KaadmY: they're drawtype = "bodebox"
00:56 KaadmY octacian: you can disable digging single nodes
00:56 KaadmY everamzah: really?
00:56 KaadmY nodebox*
00:56 octacian would be useful for placing like spawn and such
00:56 everamzah https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L1760
00:56 octacian how though
00:56 Void7 if minetest allowed changing nodeboxes dynamically technic wouldn't require 64 different node defs for all directions of the wires
00:57 everamzah NDT_CONNECTED
00:57 everamzah i thought technic used them
00:57 OldCoder ^ Much better
00:57 shamoanjac the minetest API really needs a lot of work
00:57 shamoanjac A LOT
00:57 octacian Void7: then why isn't someone trying to make the possible
00:57 everamzah Void7: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L642
00:58 KaadmY octacian: because minetest_game doesn't need connected nodes
00:58 everamzah minetest_game uses connected nodes for fences and walls
00:58 octacian honestly though, MT and it's API has come a lot further than MC considering the ammount of time they've both had.
00:58 everamzah and soon xpanes, likely
00:58 Void7 everamzah: that was added after technic
00:58 KaadmY btw the connected nodes are 0.4.14
00:58 KaadmY technic is 0.4.10 or something
00:58 KaadmY several years ago
00:58 octacian I really dislike the technic chest inv
00:58 everamzah it's still updated
00:58 everamzah apr 6
00:59 KaadmY aren't panes nodeboxes?
00:59 KaadmY i thought xpanes was entirely lua
00:59 everamzah also
00:59 everamzah connected nodeboxes in technic: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/​blob/097d0335858f85b4c2e85e801caef1976f585aa​6/technic/machines/register/cables.lua#L25
00:59 octacian So is there a signlike drawtype?
00:59 everamzah xpanes is entirely lua
00:59 everamzah currently using 15 nodes for each pane
00:59 everamzah signlike is a flat pane
00:59 everamzah it's the old signs
00:59 rubenwardy shamoanjac: make a list of problems you've found and post it somewhere like the forum
01:00 Hijiri nolsen: your server shop values diamond at 16 dirt
01:00 shamoanjac I'll do when I finish the banners mod
01:00 rubenwardy make sure that it's good list (try not to be vague, but don't be too wordy either)
01:00 rubenwardy it'll help
01:00 Void7 oh, that's probably very new
01:00 nolsen Hijiri: No it doesn't.
01:00 octacian rubenwardy: how do u generate the item cubes used in the modding book?
01:00 Void7 also why does connect_sides exist
01:00 shamoanjac I still have tons of suprises to discover
01:00 rubenwardy octacian: I nicked those from the wiki
01:00 Void7 can't you just set the box to either {} or nil?
01:00 Hijiri nolsen: dirt is 60 per stack, diamond is 1000 per stack
01:00 shamoanjac isn't connect_sides for stuff like rails and mesecons?
01:00 rubenwardy octacian: that's why some are missing
01:01 shamoanjac therefore just textures?
01:01 nolsen Hijiri: I don't know the prices to set.
01:01 octacian rubenwardy: this is gonna be fun then..
01:01 octacian Wait, it's simple. Inkscape
01:01 rubenwardy blender or by screenshoting, I guess :P
01:01 betterthanyou710 blenders fun
01:01 Hijiri you could set the standard as 1 diamond = something and price everything else against that
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01:01 KaadmY shamoanjac: rails are raillike drawtype
01:01 octacian There is a type of grid in inkscape that makes stuff like that easy
01:01 Void7 hexagonal grid?
01:01 shamoanjac true
01:01 octacian yep
01:02 shamoanjac just use the free market lmao
01:02 KaadmY i could probably even write a python script to autogenerate isometeric blocks
01:02 rubenwardy Hijiri, nolsen, much more fun would be a supply/demand based price adjusting store
01:02 octacian That would be really useful, KaadmY
01:02 rubenwardy difficult to balance on low pop though
01:02 Hijiri rubenwardy: increase price as supply goes down and decrease for up?
01:02 rubenwardy yeah
01:03 rubenwardy and same for demand
01:03 Hijiri how do you measure demand?
01:03 octacian rubenwardy: can nodeboxeditor generate that stuff? if not, you should try and add that functionality.
01:03 rubenwardy buyers of that product
01:03 Hijiri it could just be purely-demand based and have the shop contain infinite
01:03 rubenwardy octacian: it potentially code, if I placed a camera in the right place
01:03 Hijiri or should players be providing all the material
01:03 shamoanjac pure demand with infinite supplies will create bubbles of speculation
01:03 rubenwardy but I'd suggest keeping a window for it: min and max price of a product
01:04 octacian Then u should do it lol. Sorry though, I can't help, still have basically no C++ experience
01:04 octacian rubenwardy: btw, NBE, can it create mode advanced nodes such as stairs?
01:04 octacian *more
01:04 rubenwardy yeah, it can make any nodebox
01:05 rubenwardy although with a lot of boxes you may have a UI problem - there's no grouping or box children
01:05 octacian HOW? lol. I can only figure out how to, for example, make a node thinner.
01:05 rubenwardy Click + to make a new box
01:05 rubenwardy and use the text list to select a box
01:06 octacian I'll mess around more I guess.. I've heard meshes are better for resources though, aren't they?
01:06 rubenwardy you'd have to optimise them
01:06 rubenwardy so meshes exported straight from NBE will be the same speed as the node boxes from it
01:06 rubenwardy except for load time, meshes load slighty faster
01:07 rubenwardy meshes are better for resources as you can generally do them using less vertices
01:07 rubenwardy NBE was designed before mesh support
01:07 octacian How do you create a lua sandbox like with LuaControllers from mesecons? I have to do it for my latest project, digicompute (originally got the idea from digiterm).
01:09 Void7 octacian: http://lua-users.org/wiki/SandBoxes
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01:09 Void7 luacontrollers have a very locked-down sandbox
01:11 octacian That's around what I'm gonna have to do. Right now, I think computers can run functions like mt.kick, and when a computer crashes, the whole server does
01:12 Void7 also probably need a time limit so stuff like infinite loops will not hang the server
01:13 octacian Yeah.
01:13 octacian BTW, which example is best? Lua 5.1 or 5.2? They both do the same, right?
01:15 octacian I'll have to think about it, but not sure how I'd use the sandbox. Code is executed from a physical filesystem unique to each computer.
01:16 Void7 lua 5.2 does not support 5.1 method
01:16 Void7 not sure about other way around
01:16 octacian LuaControllers use 5.1 method
01:16 Void7 yeah, probably
01:22 Hijiri octacian: how will you make computers carry on the same computation from before? Will they have to manually yield?
01:23 Hijiri from before as in between server ticks
01:29 octacian Hijiri: I don't understand what you mean. Info such as input and output (& formspec of course) is stored in meta, as well as any other information regarding what the computer is doing at the time.
01:30 Hijiri ok
01:30 Hijiri so the computer isn't doing general programs?
01:34 octacian Hijiri: it will be capable of running programs in their own sandbox (e.g. nano based text editor), and information about what is running at the time and custom formspec data will be stored in respective meta keys.
01:35 Hijiri octacian: Are these programs that will be limited to finishing within one tick?
01:35 Hijiri actually, I should just ask what information you are storing
01:36 DonBatman joined #minetest
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01:43 iama200 hii
01:43 octacian I hadn't thought about then taking more than one tick to finish. It's all plain lua though, so that shouldn't be an issue, should it?
01:44 octacian Hijiri: I store process name, input, output, formspec, that's about it. In fact, I'm not storing process name right now.
01:44 octacian The application or os has access to meta though.
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01:46 octacian and os
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01:52 Hijiri so the process has to run within one tick?
01:53 Hijiri oh, sorry
01:53 Hijiri didn't read
01:53 Hijiri the reason it's an issue is because it's plain lua
01:53 Hijiri it's hard to go outside and look at where the computation is
01:54 Hijiri maybe if you import and use a lua VM or something
01:54 Hijiri then you'd also get to measure memory usage
02:00 octacian I still don't quite understand why I'd need to do that, Hijiri. Maybe I'll see as I continue. idk..
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02:22 Void7 why does minetest raise segmentation fault? from a stack trace it seems to be in Camera::drawWieldedTool
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02:28 Void7 i tried software mode, still segfaults
02:28 Void7 i'm using irrlicht 1.7.3, if that helps
02:28 Void7 version is "Minetest 0.4.14-dev-e559f87"
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02:30 est31 Void7, can you paste the stacktrace somewhere
02:30 est31 (not here)
02:31 Void7 ok
02:31 KaadmY i've seen people paste debug logs on channels without autokick enabled
02:31 KaadmY it goes on for almost forever
02:31 KaadmY one time it kept printing for ~5 minutes
02:33 Void7 http://pastebin.com/cH6u14fP
02:34 est31 oh, it looks like a driver bug
02:34 est31 the trace is inside the driver
02:34 Void7 software mode also segfaults
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02:35 est31 weird
02:35 est31 do you have a stacktrace from that one too
02:35 KaadmY theoretically software isn't in the driver
02:35 Void7 yes it isn't
02:35 KaadmY i've had the same problem with mismatching irrlicht versions
02:35 KaadmY or, similar problems
02:35 KaadmY basically seg fault before the menu
02:36 est31 <KaadmY> theoretically software isn't in the driver
02:36 est31 what do you mean
02:36 est31 there are multiple parts of what a "driver" is
02:36 KaadmY yeah
02:36 Void7 http://pastebin.com/U4yy2hdd
02:36 est31 its the firmware of the gfx card
02:36 est31 plus some kernel level code
02:37 est31 plus some code that talks with the kernel level code
02:37 est31 all cann be called "driver"
02:37 est31 can*
02:37 Void7 could it be irrlicht problems?
02:38 est31 it can be what KaadmY said
02:38 Void7 i'll try irrlicht >1.8
02:38 est31 maybe your include path includes a version of irrlicht different from the so path
02:38 KaadmY he checked that already
02:38 KaadmY but..
02:38 KaadmY never hurts to try it if it's not already working
02:38 est31 its all made harder with cmake caching all these paths
02:38 KaadmY yeah
02:39 KaadmY you can remove the build/ directory and restart
02:39 KaadmY but then you lose everything if you've changed cache files
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03:09 Void7 new irrlicht, still crash
03:09 Void7 nvm
03:10 swift110-phone hey
03:12 Void7 ?
03:18 swift110-phone how are you void7
03:18 Void7 good :)
03:19 Void7 MT compile status  51%
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03:26 Void7 75%
03:26 swift110-phone good
03:26 swift110-phone ehat
03:27 swift110-phone why did you compile it
03:27 Void7 MT compile stat
03:27 Void7 trying to fix segmentation fault
03:30 Void7 still seg fault :(
03:30 Void7 anyway gtg now
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03:56 swift110-phone ok
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06:17 celeron55 here's an interesting side note to this night's FOSS flame war: back when i wanted to change the license to something else from GPL in 2011, i actually thought of a license that would be non-commercial until 6 months from release or so, after which it would be the same as LGPL or whatever, and before which only i would have had permission for selling it
06:17 celeron55 but i decided getting people on board of that would have been too difficult and also i'm not a lawyer so it would probably have ended up somehow broken
06:18 celeron55 i think a license like that should exist though
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06:19 celeron55 also, est31 was correct in the fact that none of minetest existed in 2009
06:20 celeron55 it's probably not strictly a problem in the case of @minetest though, dunno
06:24 celeron55 i probably need a @minetest.net email address and i can't be bothered to make one especially as the registration functionality of yandex is broken
06:24 celeron55 which handles them
06:24 celeron55 "Content Security Policy: The page's settings blocked the loading of a resource at self ("script-src https://mail.yandex.com 'unsafe-eval'  'nonce-015e3c307cdcde416fd7e9683021d8bh' https://mc.yandex.ru https://social.yandex.com https://yastatic.net")."
06:25 celeron55 like... what even is this shit
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07:28 AntumDeluge Is there any way to prioritize loading mods, other than using "depends.txt"? I want to load craft_guide before all others.
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07:53 Megaf Good morning gentlemen
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08:01 Megaf Bonjour FirePowi,
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08:20 Megaf Cool, github works without javascript
08:23 Megaf agaran: Are you there sir?
08:26 Megaf man, I want a Power9 laptop workstation so badly. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=​news_item&amp;px=Linux-4.8-More-POWER9
08:35 Megaf agaran: Would you be kind enough to help us brainstorm this? https://github.com/Megaf/Electrical-Engineerin​g-For-Minetest/issues/1#issuecomment-236422656
08:35 Megaf anyone is free to join the discussion
08:35 Megaf !title
08:35 MinetestBot Megaf: TODO List [Alpha1] · Issue #1 · Megaf/Electrical-Engineering-For-Minetest · GitHub
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08:49 Megaf So, acording to Opera Beta, my personal website loads in 00:01.89 seconds with adds and in 00:00.99 without ads.
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08:50 Megaf Funny thing is, I didn't put any ad at all in my website. It's just a clean wordpress installation with one single plugin
08:50 Megaf I have to track down now what is this supposed ad
08:52 Megaf maybe it's statcounter
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08:57 Megaf And the web looks so good and fast without ads and javascript
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09:01 aix hi all
09:10 aix will mapgen touch ANY already generated land?
09:10 aix if i change it
09:10 aix (the mapgen)
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09:13 FirePowi Bonjour Megaf
09:14 JamesTait Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy World Wide Web Day! 😃
09:14 Megaf Yep, StatCounter plugin does slow the website down indeed
09:15 Megaf aix: Usually no, but backup your map first
09:16 Megaf aix: on my server I switched from v6 to v7 for a couple of hours to generate some v7 terrain, then switched back to v6, no harm done in already generated terrain
09:16 Megaf same applies to nether, nether did not regenerate already generated underground mines
09:16 Megaf aix: so it should be mostly safe, but again, backup your world before you try anything
09:16 Megaf happy WWW day JamesTait!
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09:29 Megaf ok, Akismet has no impact at all on the website performance
09:33 aix okay
09:37 aix https://sr.ht/_NVQ.png lol i hid this chest somewhere in the sky and forgot it was there
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09:43 aix reckon i should keep v7 on?
09:43 Megaf aix: we have lots of hidden chest in Megaf Server
09:44 Megaf by me and players, we call them treasures
09:44 aix anything as rediculous as mine?
09:44 Megaf wow
09:44 Megaf usually we put precious metals and rare minarals
09:45 aix https://sr.ht/gZ9b.png
09:45 Megaf like mithrill,diamonds and mese
09:45 aix mine has some unspawnable stuff
09:45 aix uh
09:45 aix ungettable
09:45 aix spawned in
09:46 Megaf about mapgen, you can try in a local game mapgens and then decide what you want
09:51 Hijiri AntumDeluge: there is no way to do it from the mod sidd
09:51 Hijiri sie
09:51 Hijiri side*
09:51 Hijiri A user could put craft_guide as trusted
09:52 Hijiri all trusted mods are run before untrusted mods
09:52 Hijiri (If security is on)
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10:52 Calinou https://github.com/anishathalye/lumen/issues/7 (Linux port) has more reactions than https://github.com/anishathalye/lumen/issues/8 (Windows port)
10:52 Calinou :D
10:56 AntumDeluge Thank you Hijiri
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11:39 Megaf ok, I just switched from nginx + hhvm to hhvm with the built in proxygen web server. Happy enough
11:39 Calinou hhvm's main purpose is to eat more RAM now that PHP 7 was released :P
11:40 Megaf and actually my website was faster with nginx
11:40 Megaf hm
11:41 Megaf memory use is lower tho
11:42 Megaf Calinou: ^
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12:28 aix hi
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12:29 shamoanjac okay so I have this funny problem with Lua
12:30 shamoanjac there is a function which is 4function banners.Banner:push_transform(self, transform)
12:30 shamoanjac which is just a wrapper for 3table.insert(self.transforms, transform)
12:31 shamoanjac yet when it gets launched from a smartfs callback, I get 4init.lua:57: bad argument #1 to 'insert' (table expected, got nil)
12:31 shamoanjac on the line 3state.banner:push_transform({t​exture="banner_defaulttex.png", mask=self.name..".png"})
12:34 Calinou try blue text, it makes your code automatically work
12:35 Calinou green is not great at that
12:35 Calinou :)
12:35 aix >using green text at all
12:40 sfan5 shamoanjac: have you tried declaring it as function banners.Banner.push_transform(self, transform)
12:40 sfan5 (. instead of :)
12:43 shamoanjac uhm I'll try
12:44 shamoanjac I don't really understand the difference between the two ways
12:44 shamoanjac I thought colons were needed for objects
12:44 shamoanjac well it changed the error
12:45 shamoanjac that's something
12:45 shamoanjac 2attempt to index global 5'self'
12:46 shamoanjac oh shit I made it work
12:47 shamoanjac it was that I had also switched the constructor to a dot
12:47 shamoanjac instead of keeping the colon
12:47 shamoanjac come on banners are near completion
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12:52 shamoanjac now I'm getting 5"attempt to call 'get_transform_string()' (a nil value)
12:52 shamoanjac which is strange since the method get_transform_string() is defined the same as the push_transform
12:52 shamoanjac i.e. function banners.Banner.get_tranform_string(self)
12:52 shamoanjac the line causing the problem is 6state:get("banner_preview"):setImage​(state.banner:get_transform_string())
13:08 aix are there any lava swimming mods?
13:09 Calinou aix: probably quite a bit of them, but they won't cancel the red screen flash upon taking damage (which is cancelled)
13:09 Calinou also you'll die if you go in lava with less than 4.5 hearts
13:10 shamoanjac the red screen of damage needs to be removed
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13:10 shamoanjac can't count the amount of times I've died while fleeing from mobs because I saw nothing due to the red screen
13:13 shamoanjac is there really no reason I get this nil error?
13:13 shamoanjac I can't find the difference between that function and the previous one
13:13 shamoanjac as why does one work and not the other
13:14 Calinou <shamoanjac> the red screen of damage needs to be removed
13:14 Calinou it could be replaced with a damage compass like you see in those modern games
13:14 shamoanjac yeah
13:14 Calinou removing flash entirely would be confusing, because the screen shake is hardly visible
13:14 sfan5 "those modern games"
13:14 Calinou I did that once, and had no idea I was taking damage
13:14 Calinou sfan5: yeah, even classic Doom had a damage compass somehow
13:14 shamoanjac because damage needs sound
13:14 Calinou status bar face turned in the direction of damage when you got hit from the sides
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13:19 shamoanjac god the error was so stupid
13:19 shamoanjac yet another typo
13:19 shamoanjac calling "tranform" instead of "transform"
13:20 shamoanjac btw don't texture manipulation work inside of forms?
13:21 shamoanjac I'm getting 4ERROR[Main]: 3generateImage(): 6Could not load image "banner_defaulttex.png[mask:bend_left_outline.png"
13:23 Amaz Do you need ^ between .png and [ ?
13:23 sfan5 yes
13:23 sfan5 ^ is for overlaying textures
13:23 shamoanjac yes, I forgot that
13:23 sfan5 the [ is an indicator that it's a special thing
13:24 shamoanjac 4it is almost working
13:24 sfan5 !rainbow you use a lot of colors while chatting...
13:24 MinetestBot 4you 7use 8a lo3t of col6ors whil4e ch7atti8ng..3.
13:24 shamoanjac 4brace yourselves, banners are coming
13:24 shamoanjac I like colors
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13:30 Calinou there needs to be a mod to ban banners
13:31 shamoanjac :(
13:38 Calinou haha
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13:39 Calinou when you subscribe to Phoronix Premium, you can choose a duration
13:39 Calinou 1 year is $35, 3 years is $100, 100 years is $150
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13:46 shamoanjac https://8ch.net/v/src/1470059194800.png
13:47 shamoanjac any idea why this bug of working with the texture only in a quarter of the image?
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13:48 shamoanjac the size of the image is (4, 2), yet the results of transformations are only displayed in that (2,1) corner
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13:54 Megaf This makes me happy http://uploadpie.com/oSJJw
13:55 Megaf a console for each of my OpenVZ containers on its own tmux window
13:55 Megaf no need for ssh on them anymore
13:56 Megaf who needs virtual machines and you have containers?
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13:59 rubenwardy Hi all
13:59 rubenwardy does anyone know whether Worldedit can map nodes? Sort of like replace multiple at a time
13:59 rubenwardy you could use it to convert biomes, mostly
13:59 rubenwardy so dirt_with_snow -> dirt_with_grass, snow -> dirt, et
14:00 rubenwardy trees would be a problem
14:00 Megaf I think you have to go one my one
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14:08 shamoanjac power went off
14:08 shamoanjac I don't know whether someone replied after I said 3<shamoanjac> the size of the image is (4, 2), yet the results of transformations are only displayed in that (2,1) corner
14:08 aix https://github.com/cdqwertz/automation/b​lob/master/automation_machines/init.lua how does the quarry work?
14:08 aix i can't get the boiler to do anything
14:10 * dzho reads backscroll
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14:11 sfan5 shamoanjac: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2016-08-01
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14:12 Preuk hi
14:12 Preuk what is currently bundled lua version?
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14:13 dzho I guess this is around the time the leakage into -dev started 20:37 <@OldCoder> So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about  FOSS...
14:14 sfan5 Preuk: 5.1 iirc
14:14 shamoanjac thanks sfan5
14:14 Preuk ok thanks... couldn't find it in github repo, only 5yo comits on src/lua
14:15 sfan5 Preuk: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/lua/src/lua.h#L18
14:15 Preuk #define LUA_RELEASE"Lua 5.1.4"
14:16 Preuk thank you, i just realised there might be some constants defined
14:16 Preuk is lua upgrade planned?
14:17 sfan5 currently not
14:17 sfan5 there was some work for 5.2 and also 5.3 i think
14:17 Preuk there are integers in 5.3 that might be useful for a lot of use cases
14:17 sfan5 but it wasn't merged because of unresolved issues
14:17 Preuk ok
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14:29 aix can anyone suggest a mod that's in "WIP mods" ?
14:29 aix i 27 pages is fair enough but i'm not going through 70 of them
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14:49 Dragonop aix: depends on what you are looking for
14:49 aix anything
14:49 aix i looked through the whole mod releases section
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14:49 aix and i still want something special
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14:52 Megaf aix: what kind of mod you want?
14:53 aix something that adds building material ideally
14:53 aix but anything well, unique
14:53 rubenwardy anyone good with 3d modelling? I'd love to see a penguin mod
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14:54 Shiftus I think there is an animals mod out there somewhere, not sure if it has penguins. If I had a better computer, I could learn Blender and build a model for penguins.
14:55 rubenwardy I know there are animal mods :P
14:55 Megaf Shiftus: blender doesnt require a better computer
14:55 Megaf you can use an old netbook for it
14:55 Shiftus I'm running XP
14:55 Megaf just the rendering might take a while
14:55 Shiftus With terrible graphics hardware
14:55 Shiftus And very little RAM
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14:57 Megaf if you have a single core at 830 MHz, 2 GB of ram and an intel 945 GPU you can run blender already
14:57 Megaf comfortably
14:57 shamoanjac and you don't even need to render
14:58 Megaf just use the wireframe view and you are good to go
14:58 nm0i Morning
14:58 Megaf afternoon
14:58 Shiftus I don't have an intel GPU. :/
14:59 Megaf Shiftus: so you have a better thing
14:59 Megaf 945 is a very shitty and old intel graphics card
14:59 Shiftus Maybe I do, I don't know.
14:59 Megaf from the early 2000s
14:59 Megaf lol, you don't know what is your graphic card?
14:59 Shiftus I haven't run the DirectX Diagnostics in a while on my current system
15:00 * Megaf is speechless
15:00 Megaf Shiftus: Are on a laptop or desktop?
15:00 Shiftus Desktop
15:00 Shiftus Very old desktop too
15:00 Megaf ok, is it a branded desktop?
15:01 Shiftus Dell
15:01 Shiftus It was preowned though
15:01 Megaf ok, somewhere is the model number of it
15:01 Shiftus I ran dxdiag.exe
15:01 Shiftus My Display Device, is a RAGE 128 Pro Ultra GL AGp
15:01 Preuk Megaf: when using more than one computer, it's pretty easy to forget what is in each one
15:02 Preuk rage 128 O_O
15:02 Megaf ok, that's old
15:02 Shiftus Yeah
15:02 Megaf very old
15:02 Megaf but should be more than good enough for blender
15:03 Megaf or maybe not
15:03 Megaf I'm impressed that Minetest runs on it
15:03 Megaf it's OpenGL 1.0 only
15:04 Megaf Shiftus: I'm reading about blender here, your desktop should run it just fine
15:04 Shiftus If I understood correctly, I'm getting new hardware this week
15:05 Shiftus In addition, Minetest doesn't even open a world or a server, just gives me a Connection Timeout
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15:05 Preuk i must admit we were using blender on similar hardware 10 years ago, ran pretty fine (unless you tried rendering)
15:06 Shiftus I haven't even installed it.
15:06 Shiftus I have very little RAM...
15:06 Megaf if you have 128 MB it will be enough
15:06 Megaf I remember running XP with 64 MB
15:07 Megaf on a Pentium III, I think it was a 300 MHz Pentium III
15:07 Megaf or 500 MHz
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15:38 Calinou Rage 128 had troubles even running Q3A, IIRC
15:38 Calinou <rubenwardy> anyone good with 3d modelling? I'd love to see a penguin mod
15:39 Calinou I'd be happy if someone made mob models with non-crappy models/textures :|
15:39 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/penguin
15:39 Calinou I cringe every time I see that cow or boar from Mobs Redo
15:39 rubenwardy I used a non voxelly penguin from OGA
15:39 rubenwardy and the bunny code
15:39 rubenwardy but ideally I'd like animation
15:40 rubenwardy and for them to either waddle or slide down hills
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15:40 Calinou I don't know about Blender animation :/
15:42 aix https://sr.ht/qZRz.png ready for the light bugs...
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15:51 shamoanjac agrecascino,
15:51 agrecascino ?
15:51 agrecascino shamoanjac, ?
15:52 shamoanjac check dis
15:52 shamoanjac 1 moment
15:52 shamoanjac blob:https://imgur.com/0a46e44f-​4209-4b63-9b36-2c057b4658c0
15:53 shamoanjac disregard the corner bug
15:54 sfan5 try again, that's not a correct imgur link
15:54 shamoanjac welp
15:55 shamoanjac http://imgur.com/WMp9qSl
15:55 agaran Megaf: I am
15:55 shamoanjac though I wanted to post only the png
15:55 agaran Megaf: I was at work, no irc there
15:55 Megaf No worries
15:56 Calinou made shovel textures for my texture pack, committing
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15:56 Megaf I wish IRC clients had a /busy command, that would turn all notifications off.
15:56 agaran usually I am on irc about this time for few hours (till evening)
15:56 agaran oh, I'd forget to use it likely then
15:56 Calinou also, flowing lava is now animated
15:57 Calinou someone made a pull request :)
15:57 agaran on morning, thats like 5am for me, I would forget to do anything as I am on auto-guidance to work.. half asleep
15:57 sfan5 Megaf: try just closing the client
15:58 Megaf heh
15:59 Megaf how nonsese would creating a swap image in a ram disk would be?
16:01 est31 swap image in a ramdisk?
16:01 est31 thats real nonsense indeed
16:02 agaran Megaf: depends what you want to do.. but in general little, unless your machine has more memory than it can cache..
16:02 agaran there were machines like that.. and then uncached memory was really too slow for main mem but perfect for super fast swap
16:05 Calinou swap on the GPU makes a lot of sense though
16:05 Calinou https://github.com/graphitemaster/moreram
16:05 Calinou you need a X server for it though
16:06 Calinou a relatively recent GPU, with OpenGL 3.3 support
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16:06 Calinou also see the Arch Linux wiki on how to use VRAM as swap in a more conventional manner
16:06 Megaf Calinou: that's interesting
16:06 Megaf swap faster that main memory
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16:07 Megaf Calinou: I could use that to get some of the memory my GPU takes from the main system memory back to the system, lol
16:08 Calinou here I have 8 GB of VRAM :)
16:13 agaran thats a lot
16:14 Megaf Calinou: is there a command to see that?
16:14 agaran glxinfo?
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16:15 Calinou Megaf: not sure
16:15 Calinou agaran: not sure if glxinfo has that
16:15 agaran has at least version of opengl.. mine is working with ogl 3.3 but does not have that much vram
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16:16 Megaf Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Mullins [Radeon R2 Graphics] bus-ID: 00:01.0 chip-ID: 1002:9853
16:16 Megaf Display Server: X.org 1.18.4 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
16:16 Megaf tty size: 194x55 Advanced Data: N/A for root
16:16 Megaf that doesn't says much does it?
16:16 agaran not really a lot..
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16:17 agaran Megaf: there were issues with server yesterday, was very sluggish with abm and such, was it because of that entity lifetime?
16:18 Megaf yep
16:18 Megaf it's fixed now
16:21 * Megaf watching interestellar
16:21 Megaf interstellar*
16:21 agaran nice movie
16:22 agaran I was thinking about some better idea than increasing entity ttl..
16:22 Megaf using mpv, vdpau video output and decoder, and 128MB of cache
16:22 Megaf so mooth
16:23 Megaf smooth
16:23 agaran Megaf: server is still odd.. opening/closing door needs half minute to react..
16:24 Megaf really? let me check
16:25 Megaf <ACTION> 2016-08-01 13:24:37: [Server] CHAT: <Megaf> agaran, memory leak on the server, I have to restart it
16:25 agaran meh,
16:25 agaran maybe better to have too short ttl then..
16:27 Megaf and now CPU leak
16:27 Megaf agaran: I will update it from git, hold on
16:27 agaran I saw -inf,4.5,something as coordinate
16:27 agaran awesome
16:30 Megaf compiling the new version already, will also reboot the server after that, just in case
16:34 Megaf agaran: you can return now if you wish
16:40 agaran sure, moment
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16:43 Megaf I wish I could use sqlite with wordpress,
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16:51 agaran Megaf: still is a bit lagged.. travelnet queries show up with delay.. or it is just me/
16:52 Megaf agaran: man, minetestserver just decided to use lots of CPU
16:52 agaran Megaf: ah.. :) so I shall stop moving?
16:55 Megaf agaran: are you exploring new lands?
16:55 Megaf mapgen could trigger that
16:55 agaran nope.. wandering under spawn
16:56 Megaf mght be the mobs mod
16:56 Megaf will disable it
16:58 Megaf agaran: server is back to normal I think
16:59 agaran ping reduced to less than half of previous..
17:00 Megaf agaran: still 100% CPU use
17:00 Megaf agaran: that's why I quit Minetest once
17:00 agaran hmm watching just farms underground, you placed buches manually?
17:01 Megaf stayed away from it as long as I could, then my former players begun to insist for me to get a server back
17:01 agaran I see
17:03 Megaf and these memory leaks and CPU spikes seem to be totally random
17:03 Megaf it works everything perfectly today, tomorow CPU will be at 100% for no reason
17:04 Megaf agaran: anyway, I found a work around the issue, server is back and there is people online already
17:04 Megaf !server Megaf
17:04 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms
17:05 Megaf !server Megaf
17:05 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms
17:05 Megaf lier, theres two clients there
17:07 aix is there a mod that uses inventory+ that allows you to add bookmarks?
17:07 aix nevermind, i got it
17:08 aix hope this still works
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17:34 AntumDeluge Is there a mod that allows marking spots on the minimap?
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17:35 est31 not, its not possible to do that atm
17:36 AntumDeluge Okay. Code would have to be changed in the main Minetest source?
17:37 est31 yes
17:39 Zedicius Mhm, does anyone know if it's possible to reduce biome size in v7? Or would that require custom lua mapgen?
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17:41 Void7 Zedicius: yes there's a way
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17:46 Zedicius Any idea where I can find how?
17:48 Void7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1092
17:48 Void7 heat and humidity are used for biome sizes
17:48 Void7 Zedicius: ^
17:56 Zedicius Interesting... so that's what biomes are chosen. Thanks!
17:58 Void7 biomes are chosen by the closest heat/humidity
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18:00 Guest242352 Hello
18:02 Zedicius Yep, I found the chart on the forums.
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18:12 aix https://sr.ht/EuJ6.txt should this be happening?
18:12 aix every node in the game does not need a stair
18:13 shamoanjac mese_ore_stair
18:13 shamoanjac :^)
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18:22 aix it was xdecor
18:24 aix okay so i removed some stairs which don't work as well, stairs
18:24 aix like mese
18:24 aix who the hell wants mese stairs
18:24 Shiftus Me
18:24 Guest22345 who the hell doesn't wont mese stairs?
18:25 Guest22345 want*
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18:35 shamoanjac is there a tool to generate minetest world maps?
18:38 aix me
18:38 aix thats why i removed them
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18:43 agrecascino shamoanjac, i personally like palm trees in the tundra
18:44 shamoanjac lel
18:44 shamoanjac I'm trying to install ethereal
18:44 shamoanjac see if settings and stuff can be tweaked for more consistent generation
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18:46 shamoanjac also since we don't want map reboots we should add tons of different metals right from the beginning just in case
18:47 aix what's a decent mod for lights?
18:47 aix i've tried so many and they're either full blocks or a whole modpack
18:47 aix i just need, say, a bulb
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18:53 Shiftus I think Vanessa's homedecor has some good lighting options.
18:55 betterthanyou710 hi
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18:58 aix yes but
18:58 aix it's huge
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18:59 nosrick Anyone about?
18:59 Void7 yes
18:59 Void7 several people in fact
19:00 aix many, many people
19:00 nosrick How would I go about contributing to MineTest? I've got an idea to basically port Minecraft's capabilities system so that people can implement their own stuff, like player level, mana, etc.
19:00 nosrick It's something I feel MineTest is sorely missing.
19:00 sfan5 first: it's Minetest not MineTest
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19:01 nosrick Ah, so it is.
19:01 sfan5 second: take a look at the C++ code that powers the engine
19:01 nosrick I have done, a little.
19:01 aix nosrick: not all of us play mc, please explain what the capabilities system is
19:01 aix hell i play mc and i have no idea what it is
19:01 nosrick It's the system that allows for the tracking of variables on a player.
19:02 nosrick Like level, XP.
19:02 nosrick It can also be extended to do things like mana, which I've used it for previously in Minecraft.
19:03 OldCoder <dzho> I guess this is around the time the leakage into -dev started 20:37 <@OldCoder> So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about  FOSS...
19:03 OldCoder Not much "leakage"
19:03 OldCoder Somebody there said there was a flame war; I explained that there was not
19:03 OldCoder Not much of one
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19:09 Zedicius Anyone here familiar with Technic? Is there any way to determine the 'output' side on a furnace?
19:09 betterthanyou710 VanessaE you on
19:10 betterthanyou710 Zedicius: She can probably help you if you see her on
19:11 Zedicius Owkay, thanks!
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19:20 aix guys
19:20 aix i need an opinion
19:20 aix i should say that after i have the scrot, sorry
19:21 aix https://sr.ht/4Et8.png
19:21 aix it's better on the inside, i swear
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19:27 rubenwardy The awards mod now has progress bars! http://pasteboard.co/3vxj6tzu5.png
19:27 betterthanyou710 nice
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19:39 WSDguy2014 Hi. Can you add "minetest-server.exe" on 0.5? Becasue, i don't know how to make my server without using a minetesthosting website :(
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19:40 agrecascino install gentoo
19:40 WSDguy2014 I'm using OS Windows 7 Ultimate
19:41 Amaz Just run the .exe with --server after it.
19:41 agrecascino does anyone know what's wrong with the simple helicopters mod?
19:41 agrecascino it just teleports me to the middle nowhere
19:41 nm0i agrecascino: I double that.
19:41 nm0i Install gentoo
19:42 agrecascino middle of nowhere*
19:43 shamoanjac install gentoo
19:44 WSDguy2014 I'm going to try run my server with good old minetest version 0.4.3...
19:45 agrecascino WSDguy2014, how old is that build?
19:47 WSDguy2014 agrecascino, let me think...
19:47 shamoanjac must be 2012 or something like that
19:47 WSDguy2014 yeah, released on 2012.
19:48 rubenwardy WSDguy2014: minetest.exe --server
19:48 rubenwardy make a shortcut by right clicking the exe file
19:48 rubenwardy right click the shortcut, click propertie
19:48 rubenwardy then edit the link to be something like
19:48 agrecascino minetestserver needs a /reload command
19:48 rubenwardy "C://path/to/minetest.exe --server"
19:49 rubenwardy agrecascino: reload mods? Too difficult to add now
19:49 shamoanjac anyone knows where to find minetestmapper?
19:50 shamoanjac didn't find anything on the forums nor github?
19:50 shamoanjac didn't mean to add the question mark to that last one
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19:51 rubenwardy shamoanjac, http://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper
19:54 shamoanjac welp
19:54 shamoanjac thanks
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19:59 agaran minetest-0.4.14+repack/src/util/serialize.h:278: void writeF1000(irr::u8*, irr::f32): Assertion `i >= ((float)(s32)((-0x7FFFFFFF - 1) / 1000.0f)) && i <= ((float)(s32)((0x7FFFFFFF) / 1000.0f))' failed.  thats some known feature?
20:00 WSDguy2014 i have to restart computer, to set my language to english (USA) and i will be right back...
20:00 sfan5 agaran: it failed to serialize a float because it was weird
20:00 agaran sfan5: ok but.. I did nothing to make weird floats ;)
20:04 shamoanjac 3>windows
20:04 shamoanjac 3>have to restart computer to change locale
20:04 shamoanjac [laughs in freedom]
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20:08 agaran sfan5: if I got it for second time in 10 minutes?
20:11 sfan5 check which mods you have installed
20:12 agaran ones used at moment of crash (any node of these in region of singleplayer I am in) technic and pipeworks and moreores
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20:14 agaran not a big deal just 2 crashes, but if there is something I can do to get more data for debugging, let me know.
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20:22 WSDguy2014 I'm back.
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20:26 WSDguy2014 I don't know, creating server with .exe or .bat? I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate.
20:26 rubenwardy WSDguy2014, http://superuser.com/questions/413939/​how-to-start-a-program-with-command-li​ne-arguments-on-windows-cmd-with-start
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20:29 WSDguy2014 umm, i open cmd and now what?
20:31 rubenwardy make a file called startserver.bat in your bin folder. Open it using notepad, and enter the following:
20:32 rubenwardy start /b "" "minetest.exe" --server --worldname "worldname"
20:32 rubenwardy that should work
20:33 rubenwardy I really don't recommend using Windows to host a server
20:33 rubenwardy and I don't recommend hosting a public server on your home network
20:33 rubenwardy especially a 24/7 one
20:33 rubenwardy most internet service providers don't allow you to
20:33 WSDguy2014 i'm just going to try making a private server for my friends.
20:34 rubenwardy and if they do, then residential networks still suck for this (they usually reset every so often)
20:34 rubenwardy that's fine then
20:43 WSDguy2014 Thanks. Now it's working!
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21:02 Calinou <shamoanjac> >have to restart computer to change locale
21:03 Calinou sign-out/sign-in is required, not a full reboot
21:03 Calinou at least on Windows 8.1/10
21:03 Calinou this is pretty much also the case on GNU/Linux
21:03 Calinou where you'll want to sign-out/sign-in to make a full locale change
21:03 Calinou else some applications won't have their language changed until you do that
21:04 shamoanjac the guy stated he used Windows 7
21:04 shamoanjac so I guess that's one of these revolutionary features introduced by Windows 8
21:05 Calinou Windows 10 API is quite better than Windows 7
21:05 Calinou like, you can get screen DPI easily (since 8)
21:05 Calinou latest Windows 10 versions support simple ANSI color codes in the console
21:05 swift110 joined #minetest
21:05 Calinou (no 256 colors, though, and even less true color)
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21:12 Zedicius Mhm, I assume there's still no way to change a block's textures? I'll have to switch out the node?
21:13 shamoanjac changing a block's texture should be the next PR on github
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21:13 shamoanjac though my guess is it would imply touching many, many areas of the engine
21:14 Zedicius So I'll have to assume it won't happen any time soon  :)
21:16 rubenwardy I HATE FORMSPECS SO MUCH
21:16 rubenwardy Why does background[x,y;w,h;texture] work normally, but when used in the I inventory it messes up?
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21:17 rubenwardy I'm using background to display a progress bar below a label, but when I put use it in (i) rather than show_formspec, it fills the entire screen
21:19 agaran night
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21:24 rubenwardy why are these backgrounds displayed full screen? https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d1c6455c50f​2d4b17c4a131190d0d6c#file-gistfile1-txt-L9-L10
21:27 rubenwardy this works as expected
21:27 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d1c64​55c50f2d4b17c4a131190d0d6c#file-works-txt
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21:28 rubenwardy so background[5,5;1,1;gui_formbg.png;true] causes other backgrounds to no work
21:28 rubenwardy *not
21:29 shamoanjac rubenwardy, I have problems with textures in formspecs too lel
21:29 shamoanjac I've opened an issue
21:29 shamoanjac on the minetest github
21:29 shamoanjac https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4396
21:29 rubenwardy different issue though
21:30 shamoanjac could be related
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21:45 Zedicius Huh, weird bug. If I try to spawn an item in my inventory, and I have the quick slot selected where it's supposed to appear, it doesn't.
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22:08 aix I'm gonna call my brewery "Sky Hi High"
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23:37 agrecascino hey shamoanjac
23:37 agrecascino make flans mod for minetest pls
23:39 rubenwardy Awards 2.3 released! https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=4870
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23:51 shamoanjac flans?
23:51 shamoanjac as in food?
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23:56 agrecascino shamoanjac, flans as in airplanes as in 9/11
23:57 shamoanjac wut

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