Time Nick Message 00:00 Void7 but srsly who cares? 00:00 FakeRMS indeed 00:00 TrueAndOnlyRMS terminals connecting to mainframes 00:00 nolsen Void7: People trying to make a living? 00:00 FakeRMS ^ 00:00 TrueAndOnlyRMS all this Cloud® thing takes power away from people 00:00 Void7 nolsen: anybody who wants to compile it can. 00:00 nolsen no. 00:00 nolsen They can't. 00:00 Void7 if you don't want to compile it, get the binaries. 00:00 FakeRMS not only that, but closed source actually pushes that 00:00 FakeRMS the whole "always connected" DRM comes to mind 00:01 nolsen Now I understand why DRM exists... 00:01 nolsen and thus, kinda support DRM 00:01 FakeRMS it's just an iteration of bits 00:01 FakeRMS jesus 00:01 FakeRMS jesús, maría y josé 00:01 Void7 /ignore nolsen 00:01 Void7 oops 00:01 TrueAndOnlyRMS How can you not like freedom? 00:01 FakeRMS it's like you want your computing not to do what you want 00:01 FakeRMS it's being a slave 00:01 nolsen TrueAndOnlyRMS: I don't program, so I don't care. 00:02 FakeRMS in a future you might 00:02 rubenwardy I personally would like to make money through programming. And the companies that employ me need to make money - and no open source business models give you the security that proprietary does 00:02 FakeRMS also, even though you don't know, you can always have a friend or someone to audit it for you 00:02 nolsen Thank you rubenwardy. 00:02 shamoanjac would you have done nothing in Nazi Germany because you weren't a Jew (please gib Godwin) 00:02 OldCoder OK 00:02 OldCoder Line is pretty much there 00:02 nolsen shamoanjac: Why would I be a jew? 00:02 est31 !rainbow godwin 00:02 MinetestBot 4go7dw8in 00:02 OldCoder This *is* #minetest and not #flamecentral 00:02 betterthanyou710 rubenwardy: there are lots of companys that hire computer engineers to work for them 00:03 betterthanyou710 they make tons 00:03 FakeRMS rubenwardy, it's not like that, many companies actually get money from FOSS (red hat, for example) 00:03 KaadmY Void7: Then nobody would buy it. 00:03 KaadmY http://www.aseprite.org/download/ 00:03 betterthanyou710 we can talk about it 00:03 betterthanyou710 theres raython 00:03 betterthanyou710 etc 00:03 OldCoder Suppose I ask to hear the specific point that is in dispute 00:03 Fixer you are free to choose software you like, open source is for people who need some sort of freedom, you are free to choose whatever you like 00:03 OldCoder Or the point that is to be decided 00:03 OldCoder Is anybody able to state this? 00:03 est31 open source business models are much harder than proprietary ones 00:03 Void7 if minetest were closed-source, I wouldn't want to do anything with it 00:03 FakeRMS me neither 00:03 KaadmY same 00:03 OldCoder Void7, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able 00:03 betterthanyou710 nolsen: why did you say why would i be a jew? 00:03 est31 same for me, in fact 00:04 shamoanjac We, the freedom camp, argue that freedom matters more than the profits of a few oligarchs. 00:04 OldCoder est31, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able 00:04 OldCoder shamoanjac, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able 00:04 FakeRMS really, the open source community, like you people here, have made a better game than some soulless comapny 00:04 est31 OldCoder, what exactly are you wondering about 00:04 OldCoder est31, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able 00:04 FakeRMS it's amazing someone here would defend privative soft 00:04 OldCoder It is a magic trick 00:04 OldCoder Go on, try to do it 00:05 FakeRMS (nobody mentioned me, that means i got off scot-free!) 00:05 shamoanjac the point is whether we're ready to give away freedom in exchange for a false sense of convenience, or even worse, to give away our freedom for the personal benefits of a few other people 00:05 OldCoder shamoanjac, moment 00:05 Fixer proprietary and open source will live forever, this is part of human nature, live with it and stop flamewar 00:05 OldCoder shamoanjac, what is the specific point that is in dispute or that is to be decided? State it if you are able 00:05 est31 OldCoder, if its about the thing before about the rules 00:05 shamoanjac I've just done that OldCoder 00:05 betterthanyou710 lol 00:05 OldCoder The wording itself 00:05 rubenwardy I'm not saying that I dislike FOSS 00:05 rubenwardy I love it 00:05 OldCoder is vague and argumentative... 00:05 nolsen If I was a programmer, I would care about freedom, but I am not. 00:05 shamoanjac It's general. 00:05 est31 OldCoder, I dont know who wrote the official channel rules, but I suppose it was c55 00:05 OldCoder State an issue to be decided; a tangle issue 00:05 OldCoder tangible * 00:06 Fixer FOSS is not about money its about your soul 00:06 rubenwardy I like how I can work on a project as big and difficult as Minetest without doing the foundation myself 00:06 FakeRMS nolsen, but it's not only for programmers 00:06 shamoanjac The FLOSS issue boils down to what I stated 00:06 OldCoder So, nobody is willing and able to state a specific issue? 00:06 FakeRMS you could be a whistleblower 00:06 shamoanjac I have done OldCoder 00:06 OldCoder shamoanjac, you have not 00:06 est31 OldCoder, just dont confuse this channel with #minetest-project or #ventures 00:06 OldCoder Read what you wrote 00:06 FakeRMS or some other person caring about privacy 00:06 SloanOnLinux FLOSS issue? 00:06 betterthanyou710 shamoanjac: please restate it then 00:06 shamoanjac yes 00:06 shamoanjac ok 00:06 OldCoder est31, thank you. You have overlooked something. 00:06 betterthanyou710 whats #ventures? 00:06 OldCoder betterthanyou710, please, PM 00:06 * SloanOnLinux is burned by the flames 00:07 betterthanyou710 k 00:07 betterthanyou710 ....which one 00:07 betterthanyou710 lott or here 00:07 betterthanyou710 or somewhere else 00:07 OldCoder est31, respectfully, your assistance is not required 00:07 FakeRMS nolsen, it's about being able to audit the source and know what your machine is doing 00:07 SloanOnLinux What's going on here? 00:07 OldCoder Note, though... 00:07 shamoanjac Do you think the freedom of being able to know that software doesn't violate your rights and human dignity is more important than making profits? 00:07 KaadmY SloanOnLinux: FLOSS vs. Proprietary 00:07 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, a discussion that will be ended unless people can state... 00:07 shamoanjac Is that specific enough? 00:07 OldCoder a specific hypothesis 00:07 OldCoder Wait 00:07 betterthanyou710 SloanOnLinux: We are talking about how someone can protect closed software 00:08 betterthanyou710 or at least i think we were 00:08 SloanOnLinux OldCoder: where did the L come from? 00:08 betterthanyou710 it got sooooo out of hand 00:08 OldCoder shamoanjac, state that in tangible terms. What is the tangible point at issue? 00:08 betterthanyou710 i dont know what the topic is anymore :P 00:08 FakeRMS OldCoder, the problem is that someone is thinking that closed source is desirable 00:08 SloanOnLinux Are we talking about making Minetest closed source? 00:08 shamoanjac What do you mean by "tangible"? 00:08 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, no 00:08 Fixer it is always nice to have alternatives, especially open source O/S and applications, proprietary made software for masses has big problems (for example: race to the buttom of UIs and features, control over user etc) 00:08 KaadmY s/buttom/button 00:08 SloanOnLinux Look, if you want closed source go buy minecraft 00:08 Fixer buttom 00:08 * OldCoder will start to kick-ban shortly [temporarily] if there is no consensus on a specific point to discuss 00:08 shamoanjac no SloanOnLinux, our friend nolsen believes that open source is ultimately bad because it allows people to steal your code 00:08 FakeRMS ^ 00:08 Fixer have fun and good night 00:09 FakeRMS I did buy minecraft, and I regret it at every minute 00:09 shamoanjac you didn't reply to me OldCoder 00:09 Void7 KaadmY: bottom, not button 00:09 est31 OldCoder, i dont want to assist, I just want to point something out 00:09 shamoanjac what do you mean by "tangible"? 00:09 OldCoder If the issue is "Is Open Source Good or Evil? Is Closed Source Good or Evil?" no, we're not going to go there 00:09 SloanOnLinux There's no such thing as stealing code, if someone takes your code you still have your code 00:09 OldCoder est31, you did so, twice, and the implied statement is incorrect 00:09 nolsen shamoanjac: Nice, you change my words around. 00:09 FakeRMS it's like the sharing v. privay thing 00:09 SloanOnLinux If someone steals your watch you no longer have your watch 00:09 shamoanjac I haven't, nolsen 00:09 rubenwardy That isn't what nolsen said 00:09 rubenwardy Both FOSS and prop can be good 00:09 shamoanjac This is exactly what he said 00:09 rubenwardy nope 00:10 OldCoder shamoanjac, your point has scrolled up. Is there a specific tangible point to discuss? 00:10 OldCoder If the issue is "Is Open Source Good or Evil? Is Closed Source Good or Evil?" no, we're not going to go there 00:10 OldCoder Tangible issue, please 00:10 FakeRMS prop can, but you can never know if your prop soft is actually good or not 00:10 OldCoder Hm 00:10 SloanOnLinux Do I have to clone minetest just in case? 00:10 shamoanjac I fail to see how that isn't tangible 00:10 OldCoder shamoanjac, which? 00:10 rubenwardy Windows is bad prop software, but not all is bad 00:10 nolsen Open source is fine if the software is free. 00:10 betterthanyou710 lol sloan get ready for the apocalypse 00:11 nolsen But if you are a business, making profit from software, open source can hurt your profits. 00:11 OldCoder This might be a valuable discussion. But if there is no consensus on a specific point to discuss I'm going to go into kick mode. 00:11 Void7 hm, someone PM me when this flamewar is over 00:11 * KaadmY runs 00:11 OldCoder Last chance 00:11 OldCoder One person 00:11 OldCoder Only 1st 00:11 FakeRMS rubenwardy, you can't know it 00:11 est31 GPL is even good for commercial software 00:11 OldCoder State a specific point, please 00:11 OldCoder Is that the point? 00:11 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder: Point to focus on: 00:11 OldCoder Shall that be discussed? It is a good one 00:11 FakeRMS nolsen, it can only if your product isn't as good as the free alternative 00:11 OldCoder Right 00:11 OldCoder Shall we discuss 00:11 OldCoder GPL is even good for commercial software 00:11 OldCoder Have at it 00:11 nolsen no. 00:11 FakeRMS y 00:11 OldCoder Focus 00:12 betterthanyou710 first question 00:12 OldCoder Then state point you wish to discuss 00:12 betterthanyou710 whats GPL? xD 00:12 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder: Another open source program called GZDoom has smooth character movement and external movement, minetest does not 00:12 shamoanjac GPL is not good for commercial software 00:12 OldCoder shamoanjac, good 00:12 OldCoder Explain why it is not 00:12 nolsen Atleast rubenwardy is being a sensible person. 00:12 OldCoder Others pause a moment 00:12 nolsen +1 00:12 OldCoder shamoanjac, you have a moment to comment 00:12 OldCoder Elaborate 00:12 OldCoder No comment? 00:12 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Make your own version of minetest and keeo it's source closed 00:12 shamoanjac dude 00:12 shamoanjac let me type 00:12 nolsen SloanOnLinux: I can't program. 00:12 OldCoder OK 00:13 rubenwardy things are never black and white 00:13 nolsen I don't care about programming, programming is too complex for me. 00:13 SloanOnLinux nolsen: find people who want minetest closed source 00:13 FakeRMS nolsen, even if you can't open source is good for you 00:13 SloanOnLinux You can call it closedtest if you like 00:13 betterthanyou710 shamoanjac have to be fast here 00:13 nolsen Minetest is free, so it doesn't matter. 00:13 OldCoder One point only or we cannot discuss this here 00:13 betterthanyou710 no one can keep up with old coder but u gotta try 00:13 OldCoder DonBatman, Hi 00:13 shamoanjac nolsen said it, although with the wrong words. People being able to replicate software at will makes any commercial enterprise unviable 00:13 rubenwardy ffs, nolsen never said that FOSS is bad 00:13 shamoanjac at least in respect to the sale of the software itself 00:13 OldCoder Pause, please 00:13 OldCoder OK does anybody contest shamoanjac ? 00:13 est31 yes 00:13 OldCoder nolsen said it, although with the wrong words. People being able to replicate software at will makes any commercial enterprise unviable 00:13 OldCoder est31, please respond 00:13 betterthanyou710 nien! 00:13 betterthanyou710 i think 00:14 OldCoder will others let est31 respond? 00:14 rubenwardy needs man power, which needs money 00:14 betterthanyou710 ken 00:14 shamoanjac 3,3Red Hat does not, for example, sell their operating system, but rather services parallel to it 00:14 OldCoder allow est31 to type 00:14 betterthanyou710 oops 00:14 est31 the GPL is good for commercial software because then you can sell the ability to use it in closed source software 00:14 OldCoder Who contests that? 00:14 OldCoder And is ready to type? 00:14 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, thank you :-) 00:14 shamoanjac I'm pretty sure the GPL disallows that 00:14 betterthanyou710 this is a offical debate 00:14 shamoanjac apart for the LGPL 00:14 betterthanyou710 im willing to take over as judge 00:14 OldCoder GPL prohibits commercial software? 00:14 OldCoder Who says? Anybody wish to comment? 00:14 betterthanyou710 lol Sloan 00:15 betterthanyou710 i wish i thought of that xD 00:15 shamoanjac this is not what est31 said 00:15 est31 shamoanjac, no, you can license something under GPL, and make second licenses apart from the GPL 00:15 est31 the GPL is non-exclusive 00:15 OldCoder Dual Licensing IOW 00:15 est31 BUT you need to let your contributors sign a CLA 00:15 OldCoder If others comment, please focus on a specific point 00:15 OldCoder So... 00:16 PhonyRMS didn't read the answer 00:16 nolsen est31: What if you don't? 00:16 nolsen Does these license have any legal value? 00:16 OldCoder GPL can be used in closed source. If it is bad, who is it bad for? Comments? 00:16 est31 then your code wont be merged into the master branch 00:16 nolsen They are just pieces of text. 00:16 OldCoder nolsen, Yes; speaking objectively 00:16 SloanOnLinux Let's just discuss making player damage knockback and water flow push 00:16 rubenwardy The need for FOSS: -good software needs full time developers, and full time developers need to be paid. Not everything worthy of getting money for can have a service for it (eg: singleplayer games like Skyrim), and users don't tend to donate much 00:16 betterthanyou710 am i allowed to put everyone on probation for 2 months yet? 00:16 OldCoder They are indirectly enforceable through DMCA 00:16 betterthanyou710 and 5 hours community service? 00:16 betterthanyou710 all stand for the judge! 00:16 OldCoder Licenses are not copyrights though 00:16 rubenwardy 0ad is probably the only free game to get significant donations 00:16 est31 OldCoder, GPL can't be used in closed source never said that, said it can be used in commercial software 00:16 rubenwardy *the need for prop 00:16 est31 commercial != closed source 00:16 betterthanyou710 awwww i loveeee 0ad 00:16 betterthanyou710 such a great game 00:17 OldCoder est31, I agree and understood 00:17 est31 commercial == made for money 00:17 betterthanyou710 talked to the developers 00:17 shamoanjac SloanOnLinux, doesn't Minetest have knockback already? 00:17 betterthanyou710 i need to update 00:17 OldCoder GPL can certainly be used in commercial software 00:17 OldCoder Is there another point to be settled? 00:17 SloanOnLinux shamoanjac: I don't think so 00:17 OldCoder Not just LGPL; full GPL 00:17 nolsen est31: But someone can buy your program, then change the code, rename it to something else, and sell it. 00:17 nolsen Making you loose profit 00:17 OldCoder nolsen, correct 00:17 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, does a player get knocked back when attacked? 00:17 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, wait 00:17 OldCoder nolsen, go on 00:17 OldCoder Others, let nolsen finish 00:17 OldCoder nolsen, so? 00:17 OldCoder Go on 00:18 KaadmY "freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things." 00:18 PhonyRMS nolsen, then he'd just get little pennies 00:18 nolsen PhonyRMS: right. 00:18 betterthanyou710 maybe a dime or two 00:18 nolsen the original owner will. 00:18 OldCoder nolsen, is it the right of a company to decide what it will start with? 00:18 est31 nolsen, yes, you dont sell licenses to your users, but to people who want to make changes to the code and want to keep the changes to themselves 00:18 est31 thats the way you make money 00:18 PhonyRMS nolsen, because it's a first-timer thing, that's why minecraft is so big and minetest not, even though minetest I'd say is better 00:18 betterthanyou710 i gtg 00:18 betterthanyou710 be back soon 00:18 OldCoder betterthanyou710, o/ 00:18 OldCoder betterthanyou710/ 00:18 betterthanyou710 i want to hear this xD 00:18 est31 nolsen, like for example the old licensing model for qt 00:19 OldCoder Is the question "Is FOSS morally bad" or is it "How do you make money from it" ? 00:19 OldCoder Focus 00:19 est31 qt under gpl and you could get a commercial license for money 00:19 OldCoder Which is the question? 00:19 OldCoder Is the question "Is FOSS morally bad" or is it "How do you make money from it" ? 00:19 nolsen OldCoder: ladder. 00:19 OldCoder nolsen, good! 00:19 OldCoder Progress! 00:19 OldCoder If there is a noisy debate about "It is not possible" 00:19 OldCoder THAT, shamoanjac, is a tangible issue 00:19 OldCoder It can be settled 00:19 SloanOnLinux Why don't we just put donate links and encourage people to give a buck or two, and bountysource links? 00:20 PhonyRMS like redhat does, or though donation, issue settled 00:20 KaadmY "Convey the object code by offering access from a designated place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equivalent access to the Corresponding Source in the same way through the same place at no further charge." 00:20 OldCoder An issue that can't be settled is known as non-falsifiable 00:20 nolsen SloanOnLinux: Because nobody aint got time for that. 00:20 KaadmY terasology also has code bounties 00:20 PhonyRMS there's always a way to take money from it 00:20 OldCoder So, donations... they don't work; everybody agrees? 00:20 OldCoder Ancilliary merchandise... may be 00:20 SloanOnLinux I dont agree.. 00:20 shamoanjac donations do work 00:20 OldCoder Good! 00:20 PhonyRMS I don't agree 00:20 OldCoder Tangible point 00:20 PhonyRMS donations work 00:20 shamoanjac the FSF is alive after 30 years 00:20 OldCoder FSF is different 00:21 PhonyRMS most FOSS projects also get enough to get by 00:21 OldCoder And I was there at the start BTW 00:21 * OldCoder does know the history 00:21 PhonyRMS it's no microsoft, but it works 00:21 OldCoder Then... 00:21 nolsen OldCoder: What are you? 50 years old? 00:21 SloanOnLinux People pay for Minecraft, they should be kind enough to pay a little for Minetest... Although I don't have money to pay. 00:21 OldCoder Donations, crowdfunding 00:21 DonBatman hi OldCoder 00:21 OldCoder DonBatman, Hi! 00:21 OldCoder are one approach 00:21 KaadmY Void7: flamewar not over yet 00:21 Void7 oh 00:21 Void7 well then 00:21 OldCoder Ancilliary merchandise is another 00:21 rubenwardy Linux is an example of an excellent FOSS project, companies pay employees to develop it together. The best projects are ones where companies work together. Free gaming doesn't benefit from this unfortunately 00:21 OldCoder KaadmY, it is 00:21 est31 wikipedia is donation run 00:21 DonBatman And Hi everyone else 00:22 est31 and its damn successful for them 00:22 shamoanjac hi DonBatman 00:22 OldCoder There is something that huge companies do 00:22 OldCoder Embrace and Extend 00:22 nolsen Ubuntu forever. 00:22 nolsen Ubuntu 16.10 00:22 OldCoder Considered unethical but it works 00:22 KaadmY and wikipedia has a huge banner telling you do donate now 00:22 shamoanjac kek 00:22 est31 does ubuntu make real money? 00:22 OldCoder In Embrace and Extend you basically take over the FOSS project 00:22 OldCoder Co-opt it 00:22 est31 I believe they mostly live from donations of their boss 00:22 nolsen est31: They are own by cannocal, which makes money through other stuff. 00:22 PhonyRMS it has canonical behind 00:22 est31 err I've mean canonical 00:23 PhonyRMS yeah, that's why GNU GPL encourages forks 00:23 OldCoder Individual donations, Corporate funding, Embrace and Extend, and Added Value 00:23 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, so basically someone is the boss of the FOSS project? 00:23 est31 canonical isn't really profitable afaik 00:23 OldCoder Which is similar 00:23 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, explain 00:23 OldCoder What is clear is that FOSS is here to stay after decades... 00:23 OldCoder and people *will* find ways to profit from it 00:23 OldCoder Some ethical, some not 00:24 OldCoder Linux is in everything now 00:24 OldCoder Your phones, even your TV sets and appliances 00:24 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, I mean if one person was in charge of the project and had help from people 00:24 OldCoder Did particular Linux developers benefit? Probably not 00:24 KaadmY heh 00:24 nolsen OldCoder: Sounds like the horror stories you get when you install Java. 00:24 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, go on 00:24 OldCoder nolsen, go on two 00:24 nolsen "It's in your car, it's in your microwave, it's in your TV" 00:24 OldCoder nolsen, go on too * 00:24 nolsen "Java is everywhere" 00:24 OldCoder *Slowly* make your point and let others respond 00:24 nolsen Sounds scary. 00:24 KaadmY imagine if linux changes its license 00:24 OldCoder Java was a fad 00:24 OldCoder KaadmY, cannot 00:25 KaadmY OldCoder: exactly 00:25 OldCoder Embrace and Extend 00:25 OldCoder is the danger 00:25 SloanOnLinux I don't find that unethical, but it's sorta too late to do that unless we vote 00:25 nolsen Imagine if Microsoft bought linux. 00:25 OldCoder nolsen, SCO tried to take it 00:25 est31 http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Reading-the-tea-leaves-with-Canonical-s-financial-statement 00:25 OldCoder They spent 10 years 00:25 est31 "All told, during the 2013 financial year, these revenue streams gave the Canonical Group a gross profit of of $60.6 million and a net loss of $21.3 million." 00:25 OldCoder Trying to get the "rights" to Linux 00:25 est31 $21 million losses in 2013 00:25 SloanOnLinux I mean, it's more organized, and if someone else wants to change it they can take charge of their own 00:25 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, is this a hypothetical small project? Commercial? Startup? 00:25 nolsen OldCoder: Are they still going? 00:26 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder: Just an alternative organization method 00:26 OldCoder nolsen, SCO spent $1B and ceased largely to exist. They were laughed out of existence. 00:26 OldCoder $1B on legal fees to get Linux 00:26 nolsen SCO? 00:26 SloanOnLinux OldcoderK If I were to vote for a minetest 'CEO 00:26 OldCoder Linux, it was understood... 00:26 OldCoder SCO was... 00:26 est31 SCO the vulture corp 00:26 OldCoder I was involved with them in 1981 00:26 OldCoder Long story 00:26 est31 really really evil guys 00:26 OldCoder They had a PC Linux 00:26 OldCoder They had a PC UNIX * 00:26 OldCoder At the time 00:26 SloanOnLinux ' I would vote for Oldcoder or c11 00:26 OldCoder They had the main commercial UNIX for PC 00:26 nolsen Shanghai Cooperation Organisation? 00:26 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, please; story 00:27 OldCoder Santa Cruz Operation 00:27 SloanOnLinux c55* 00:27 OldCoder Then UNIX for PC went away 00:27 OldCoder because of Linux 00:27 OldCoder We think we own Linux 00:27 nolsen Does anyone even still use UNIX? 00:27 OldCoder Just because 00:27 OldCoder nolsen, yes; it became Mac OS X 00:27 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Mac is unix based 00:27 OldCoder Mac OS X is based on BSD 00:27 * OldCoder was at B at the time 00:27 est31 nolsen, all the bsds are unix based 00:27 OldCoder This was 35 years ago... 00:27 OldCoder UNIX was born around 1970 00:27 est31 and I think netflix is using 100% bsd 00:27 OldCoder I started using it in 1976 00:28 nolsen OldCoder: Yet, people think Windows was the first OS. 00:28 OldCoder BSD evolved out of it 00:28 OldCoder nolsen, few do; even the kids 00:28 nolsen My parents do ._. 00:28 OldCoder Windows is pretty young 00:28 nolsen Or I don't know. 00:28 OldCoder nolsen, your parents... Huh. Don't they remember DOS? 00:28 nolsen I know my parents hate linux. 00:28 OldCoder Why do they feel this way? 00:28 nolsen Who knows. 00:28 * OldCoder shrugs 00:28 shamoanjac I'm pretty sure nolsen's parents are too young to remember DOS 00:28 OldCoder They use it, tell them that 00:28 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Why do your parents hate linux? 00:28 OldCoder :-) 00:28 OldCoder It is fine if they do 00:29 nolsen SloanOnLinux: I don't know. 00:29 OldCoder Point is, it is here 00:29 nolsen I can never get an answer why. 00:29 OldCoder And profitable... 00:29 SloanOnLinux And my mom absolutely refuses to try it 00:29 OldCoder Now... 00:29 OldCoder But SloanOnLinux does she have Android ? :-) 00:29 OldCoder Tell her Android is Linux 00:29 OldCoder O_O 00:29 nolsen Oh my god, I have to tell this story.... 00:29 SloanOnLinux OldCoder: Nope 00:29 OldCoder nolsen, go on 00:29 SloanOnLinux She just uses a windows 7 laptop 00:29 nolsen One day, she thought her Samsung Galaxy Tablet, was running Windows. 00:29 nolsen and not android. 00:29 OldCoder Oi 00:30 nolsen This is next-level ignorance. 00:30 SloanOnLinux Oldcoder, when the laptop starts spitting blue screens and error messages it'll get linuxed 00:30 nolsen Nobody can get more ignorant than that. 00:30 OldCoder nolsen, so tell her it is Linux 00:30 SloanOnLinux nolsen: I'm sorry 00:30 OldCoder Do not use the word ignorant 00:30 nolsen OldCoder: I think I did, multiple times. 00:31 OldCoder Heh 00:31 OldCoder Shrug, then 00:31 OldCoder And learn 00:31 nolsen I think I get some ignorant response. 00:31 nolsen Or "I don't care" 00:31 nolsen or something like that. 00:31 PhonyRMS nolsen, is it hereditary? why do you hate freedom? 00:31 OldCoder nolsen, then care about her for what she is 00:31 nolsen OldCoder: lol no. 00:31 OldCoder PhonyRMS, No Ad Hominem 00:31 PhonyRMS just a joke 00:31 nolsen I mock her ignorance xD 00:31 nolsen Sometimes. 00:31 OldCoder nolsen, and learn; get the facts before you assess positions 00:31 OldCoder nolsen, stupid is as stupid does. Not knows. That is what you focus on.\ 00:32 OldCoder nolsen, if you wish to be sharp yourself, assume there is something you may have missed 00:32 MinetestBot 02[git] 04t4im -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Doors: Fix potential crashes, code improvements 1300c2dde https://git.io/v6ebK (152016-08-01T01:21:57+01:00) 00:32 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Bones: Improve bones textures 134fba897 https://git.io/v6eb6 (152016-08-01T01:20:27+01:00) 00:32 OldCoder MinetestBot, thank you :-) 00:32 SloanOnLinux So, Minetest is not about to get monetized, right? 00:32 nolsen OldCoder: One time I installed linux aside of windows on her laptop. 00:32 nolsen She complained. 00:32 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, it is, in fact 00:32 nolsen For no reason. 00:32 OldCoder nolsen, it is... 00:32 OldCoder Hm 00:32 nolsen She still had her winblows... 00:32 OldCoder It depends 00:32 nolsen But she complains 00:32 OldCoder I had somebody who complained when I talked about Linux 00:33 OldCoder Now fix my Windows 00:33 OldCoder Now fix my Windows 00:33 OldCoder Now fix my Windows 00:33 OldCoder This is the last time 00:33 OldCoder Now fix my Windows 00:33 OldCoder You're getting Linux Mint 00:33 OldCoder Satan Get The Hence 00:33 nolsen OldCoder: My grandmother made me fix her windows computer all the time, it was annoying. 00:33 OldCoder It is free 00:33 nolsen One time, SHE DELETED WINDOWS. 00:33 nolsen It wouldn't boot. 00:33 OldCoder Videos, email, touchscreen, Wii, radio, the works 00:33 OldCoder Exactly 00:33 octacian lol 00:33 OldCoder This person... Windows 8 deleted itself 00:34 OldCoder om boot 00:34 OldCoder Enough 00:34 octacian I quit windows when I got a broken registry 00:34 nolsen Another time was when she made all .exe programs be downloaded through IE. 00:34 OldCoder You are getting Mint 00:34 OldCoder Hm. Wait... I get it... 00:34 OldCoder It is a Free Windows! 00:34 shamoanjac the hell 00:34 OldCoder Now I can conceptualize it 00:34 OldCoder It is a Free Windows! 00:34 OldCoder And that is what he settled on 00:34 shamoanjac are these real IRC logs? 00:34 nolsen OldCoder: Every time I talk about Linux being a kernel, in front of my parents, they think I'm talking about POPCORN. 00:34 OldCoder I told my friends and they want the Free Windows 00:35 OldCoder No, they are verbal IRL discussions 00:35 OldCoder Paraphrased for fun 00:35 shamoanjac oh I was afraid lel 00:35 OldCoder Pretty accurate 00:35 OldCoder He did call it a Free Windows 00:35 OldCoder Not the first person 00:35 OldCoder shamoanjac, nolsen people need to be able to position things 00:35 octacian BTW, OldCoder, thanks for that info u gave me a while ago about config files and and optional dependencies. I am doing some pretty neat stuff as a result of that.. 00:35 SloanOnLinux Well it is, sorta 00:35 OldCoder octacian, sure 00:35 OldCoder SloanOnLinux, well, indirectly 00:35 nolsen OldCoder: My grandmother is using Ubuntu 16.04, and she is complaning. 00:36 OldCoder I am not offended to be called a Free Windows 00:36 OldCoder nolsen, about what? 00:36 nolsen OldCoder: About linux. 00:36 octacian Kubuntu seems better for windows users. 00:36 nolsen I had bad experiences with KDE. 00:36 nolsen With its segfaults. 00:36 SloanOnLinux nolsen: Examples please? 00:36 * SloanOnLinux is a KDE user 00:36 octacian I've never used it, just judging from appearence though 00:37 SloanOnLinux I wanna see if you have the same problems as I do 00:37 OldCoder So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS... 00:37 OldCoder Its purpose, what is it good for, can you make money from it 00:37 rubenwardy <3 xfce 00:37 OldCoder But this is NOT 1997 any longer, kids 00:37 OldCoder Homework: Google Halloween Documents ESR 00:38 OldCoder We must position Linux as terrorist tool 00:38 OldCoder Those days are gone 00:38 SloanOnLinux OldCoder: I've heard of those 00:38 OldCoder FOSS and Closed Source are BOTH here to stay and with each other to play 00:38 SloanOnLinux Now microsoft LUBBERS Linux! 00:38 nolsen OldCoder: That reminds me an article where a governer bans the use of iPhones because "THEY R ON THE SIDEZ OF THETERRORSTS" 00:38 nolsen Because the encryption 00:38 OldCoder nolsen, yes 00:38 KaadmY well 00:38 OldCoder That started in 1995 with Clinton 00:38 rubenwardy Minetest could do with some full time devs - 00:39 nolsen Who even uses iPhones, anyways. 00:39 KaadmY i wouldn't mind getting iPhones banned 00:39 octacian Me too 00:39 OldCoder rubenwardy, we are doing OK 00:39 OldCoder MS positioned Linux as terrorist until about 10 years ago 00:39 OldCoder Now one of the major distros is MS-Linux 00:39 nolsen I contribute to minetest here and there. 00:39 octacian Ubuntu FTW! 00:39 OldCoder Little known fact, yes, there is an MS-Linux 00:39 SloanOnLinux Yus now zey <3sssss Linux 00:39 nolsen Usually by creating issues and documentation 00:39 nolsen Since I can't program. 00:39 OldCoder nolsen, you can if you want to 00:39 OldCoder Some prefer other levels 00:39 nolsen OldCoder: I tried. 00:40 OldCoder nolsen, it is hardly a lifetime settled issue 00:40 OldCoder What language was it? 00:40 octacian nolsen, lua is actually quite simple. Have u taken a look at rubenwardy's modding "book?" 00:40 OldCoder Or platform? 00:40 nolsen OldCoder: My first was python. 00:40 nolsen No, that wasn't my first. 00:40 betterthanyou710 hi 00:40 OldCoder nolsen, try other languages or MT mods 00:40 nolsen my first was...I don't remember 00:40 KaadmY python is really easy 00:40 OldCoder betterthanyou710 here will mod 00:40 SloanOnLinux Hi betterthanyou710 00:40 shamoanjac I'd say Lua is pretty bad for learning 00:40 OldCoder shamoanjac, for some 00:40 KaadmY by first was basic-256 >.< 00:40 OldCoder For 12 year olds it is fine 00:40 OldCoder <- BASIC 00:40 OldCoder Around 1972 00:40 nolsen OldCoder: I try to learn, I read it, I forgot about it later on. 00:40 nolsen forget* 00:40 KaadmY basic-256 00:40 shamoanjac my first language was C, when I was 12 00:40 KaadmY not basic 00:41 octacian Lua is pretty good honestly. I'm learning C++ though. More useful. 00:41 OldCoder nolsen, then focus on media 00:41 shamoanjac of course I didn't understand pointers at that age 00:41 betterthanyou710 betterthanyou710 here will mod what does this mean? 00:41 OldCoder Are you a writer? Artist? 00:41 OldCoder betterthanyou710, you will learn some Lua 00:41 nolsen I'm not an artist. 00:41 betterthanyou710 sweet 00:41 nolsen I can't even write (on paper) 00:41 betterthanyou710 hopefully you will teach me 00:41 KaadmY http://basic256.org/index_en 00:41 nolsen lol, basic language. 00:41 nolsen Wasn't that used in commodore 64? 00:41 Void7 I don't even know WHAT this discussion is about ._. 00:41 KaadmY maybe 00:42 * KaadmY agrees with Void7 00:42 OldCoder nolsen, well, where do you feel most creative and competent? 00:42 nolsen OldCoder: I actually lost my creativity. 00:42 OldCoder betterthanyou710, you can pick it up easy 00:42 OldCoder nolsen, how did this happen? 00:42 Void7 also java was my first language in 1972, used it with HTML and CSS 00:42 nolsen OldCoder: I don't know. 00:42 nolsen I guess I really never had it. 00:42 shamoanjac kek Void7 00:42 OldCoder Void7, it is friendly. And welcome Old Timer. 00:42 OldCoder But there was no HTML-CSS in 1972 00:42 KaadmY ;_; 00:42 OldCoder The Internet was uucp 00:42 OldCoder KaadmY, ? 00:43 OldCoder Why the tears? 00:43 KaadmY because Void7 00:43 OldCoder Void7, what? 00:43 nolsen TIL ;_; was a tear faced 00:43 nolsen teared fear 00:43 shamoanjac I remember back in 1954 when I was running some sweet Haskell 00:43 octacian Did u know u can make GUI Applications with Lua? I mean, I'm still going with C++, but.. 00:43 OldCoder shamoanjac, you were not 00:43 OldCoder octacian, yep 00:43 shamoanjac that's kind of the point lmao 00:43 KaadmY lua: https://love2d.org/ 00:43 OldCoder Ah 00:43 rubenwardy octacian: just libraries 00:43 OldCoder Yes, Jesse uses Love2 00:43 OldCoder Yes, Jesse uses Love2D * 00:43 Void7 octacian: i've used Love2D 00:43 rubenwardy Lua can use C libraries if you do it right 00:44 OldCoder A Python coder age 21 00:44 octacian rubenwardy: you sure about that? WireShark seems to be Lua 00:44 nolsen OldCoder: I tried learning, but I'm too impatient on working on a program, than learning the language. 00:44 rubenwardy You need to do something special with binding 00:44 rubenwardy but you can just use require() 00:45 rubenwardy So yeah, octacian can be used to make GUIs just like any other language 00:45 rubenwardy oops 00:45 OldCoder nolsen, right... so what clicks with you? 00:45 rubenwardy anyway, gtg o/ 00:45 OldCoder octacian is a GUI framework, then 00:45 OldCoder There are worse fates 00:45 OldCoder rubenwardy, o/ 00:45 octacian lol 00:45 rubenwardy by octacian I meant Lua :/ 00:45 OldCoder We no 00:45 nolsen rubenwardy: Don't take an arrow to the knee. 00:45 OldCoder See you 00:45 Hijiri replace modding API with haskell imo 00:46 octacian No! 00:46 OldCoder Arrow to the knee Source Code is free MS loves you and me 00:46 octacian lol again 00:46 Void7 replace modding api with source-code modifications -_- 00:46 octacian Why is stuff like DOS so interesting? 00:46 nolsen !server [TUSS] 00:46 MinetestBot nolsen: [TUSS] The Ultimate Survival Server | minetest.nolsen.xyz | Clients: 1/15, 1/2 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 152ms 00:46 nolsen I spent time creating that server :\ 00:47 octacian BTW, has anyone tried removing the grid in MT and instead placing blocks directly relative to the player? 00:47 nolsen And only 1 user. 00:47 nolsen ONE 00:47 nolsen one regular. 00:47 KaadmY octacian: can't 00:47 octacian nolsen, lol you got a .xyz too! 00:47 octacian KaadmY, why? 00:47 KaadmY octacian: the world is stored as a grid 00:47 KaadmY positions aren't known for each block 00:47 KaadmY they have to be placed by grid boundaries 00:48 Void7 why does minetest need to re-download media every connect ;_; 00:48 nolsen Void7: It doesn't. 00:48 octacian KaadmY, not fully removing the grid, but simply allowing blocks to be placed at different angles which would be saved in other properties. 00:48 nolsen It is cached 00:48 nolsen unless the server restarted 00:48 octacian Void7: it's cached. Or else I'd be mad. 00:48 KaadmY octacian: you could use entities 00:48 Void7 yes 00:48 Void7 !server pixture 00:48 MinetestBot Void7: Pixture game server | pixture.quelcom.xyz | Clients: 4/10, 1/9 | Version: 0.4.14 / pixture | Ping: 17ms 00:48 KaadmY but then they'd be much less reliable, no ambient occlusion, shading, etc 00:49 octacian KaadmY: that's pretty inefficient when it comes to resources 00:49 KaadmY octacian: yes 00:49 KaadmY that's the only way though with the current API 00:49 KaadmY and it'd take a tremendous amount of effort to change that 00:49 OldCoder Why is stuff like DOS so interesting 00:49 KaadmY ^ because DOS 00:49 OldCoder Because it's functional but minimal 00:49 octacian How hard would something like minetest.set_texture(pos, side, newtexture) be? 00:49 DonBatman octacian I am working on a game that makes it so you can not dig or place nodes unless I code it to 00:49 Void7 roughly many. 00:50 OldCoder Void7, are you really of that generation? 1972? 00:50 Void7 no 00:50 OldCoder Or joking? 00:50 Void7 i was joking 00:50 OldCoder Ah 00:50 OldCoder OK 00:50 nolsen The second I join my server..I get summoned in Dark Souls 1. 00:50 OldCoder I'm literal, you know 00:50 octacian DonBatman: that makes no sense. 00:50 DonBatman It will make sense when it is done 00:50 octacian ohhhh, for like adventure maps? 00:51 Hijiri good chat logs in here 00:51 Hijiri check your freedoms proprietary scum 00:51 DonBatman Yup 00:51 octacian Once again. I'd like something like minetest.set_node_property(pos, {...}) 00:52 octacian That way you could simply set all nodes in an area to unbreakable or have a tool to modify it block-by-block 00:52 shamoanjac isn't that literally what meta does octacian ? 00:52 octacian shamoanjac: physical properties. 00:52 Hijiri I remember seeing a github issue about having a node definition key in the metadata, for replacing parts of the definition 00:53 shamoanjac you mean something like an "editable bit" for every node? 00:53 Void7 replacing tiles would require many code. 00:53 KaadmY such code* 00:53 octacian Yeah. That way I could set nodes to be unbreakable without registering a completely new node. 00:53 Hijiri shamoanjac: being able to change an individual node's texture, softness, etc. through meta 00:53 KaadmY octacian: you can have a can_dig function 00:54 KaadmY that checks it it should be breakable 00:54 Void7 KaadmY: but you'd have to store if every node is breakable -_D 00:54 shamoanjac you can change an individual node's texture through meta 00:54 octacian Yes. Texture would be really nice. (e.g. changing backs of computers in my mod, digicompute) 00:54 octacian Wait, you CAN? 00:54 shamoanjac yes 00:54 KaadmY shamoanjac: since when 00:54 Hijiri you can? 00:54 shamoanjac that's how signs work 00:54 Void7 but what would happen if you change the collision box? 00:54 Hijiri signs use entities 00:54 KaadmY shamoanjac: sings don't 00:54 Hijiri to display the text 00:54 Void7 shamoanjac: signs add an entity in front 00:54 KaadmY they use entities 00:55 everamzah signs_lib 00:55 shamoanjac welp I need to re-read the source 00:55 octacian yeah, they use entities. I guess I could do that too, but once again.. entities... 00:55 everamzah regular signs are nodeboxes + infotext metadata 00:55 Void7 "hmm, why does the front of my computer disable shading when it's on" 00:55 octacian signs lib works just like painting, with the entities 00:55 KaadmY everamzah: regular signs aren't even nodeboxes 00:55 everamzah oh 00:55 KaadmY they're signlike, which is a single plane 00:56 octacian KaadmY: what about this can_dig function? 00:56 everamzah KaadmY: they're drawtype = "bodebox" 00:56 KaadmY octacian: you can disable digging single nodes 00:56 KaadmY everamzah: really? 00:56 KaadmY nodebox* 00:56 octacian would be useful for placing like spawn and such 00:56 everamzah https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L1760 00:56 octacian how though 00:56 Void7 if minetest allowed changing nodeboxes dynamically technic wouldn't require 64 different node defs for all directions of the wires 00:57 everamzah NDT_CONNECTED 00:57 everamzah i thought technic used them 00:57 OldCoder ^ Much better 00:57 shamoanjac the minetest API really needs a lot of work 00:57 shamoanjac A LOT 00:57 octacian Void7: then why isn't someone trying to make the possible 00:57 everamzah Void7: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L642 00:58 KaadmY octacian: because minetest_game doesn't need connected nodes 00:58 everamzah minetest_game uses connected nodes for fences and walls 00:58 octacian honestly though, MT and it's API has come a lot further than MC considering the ammount of time they've both had. 00:58 everamzah and soon xpanes, likely 00:58 Void7 everamzah: that was added after technic 00:58 KaadmY btw the connected nodes are 0.4.14 00:58 KaadmY technic is 0.4.10 or something 00:58 KaadmY several years ago 00:58 octacian I really dislike the technic chest inv 00:58 everamzah it's still updated 00:58 everamzah apr 6 00:59 KaadmY aren't panes nodeboxes? 00:59 KaadmY i thought xpanes was entirely lua 00:59 everamzah also 00:59 everamzah connected nodeboxes in technic: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/blob/097d0335858f85b4c2e85e801caef1976f585aa6/technic/machines/register/cables.lua#L25 00:59 octacian So is there a signlike drawtype? 00:59 everamzah xpanes is entirely lua 00:59 everamzah currently using 15 nodes for each pane 00:59 everamzah signlike is a flat pane 00:59 everamzah it's the old signs 00:59 rubenwardy shamoanjac: make a list of problems you've found and post it somewhere like the forum 01:00 Hijiri nolsen: your server shop values diamond at 16 dirt 01:00 shamoanjac I'll do when I finish the banners mod 01:00 rubenwardy make sure that it's good list (try not to be vague, but don't be too wordy either) 01:00 rubenwardy it'll help 01:00 Void7 oh, that's probably very new 01:00 nolsen Hijiri: No it doesn't. 01:00 octacian rubenwardy: how do u generate the item cubes used in the modding book? 01:00 Void7 also why does connect_sides exist 01:00 shamoanjac I still have tons of suprises to discover 01:00 rubenwardy octacian: I nicked those from the wiki 01:00 Void7 can't you just set the box to either {} or nil? 01:00 Hijiri nolsen: dirt is 60 per stack, diamond is 1000 per stack 01:00 shamoanjac isn't connect_sides for stuff like rails and mesecons? 01:00 rubenwardy octacian: that's why some are missing 01:01 shamoanjac therefore just textures? 01:01 nolsen Hijiri: I don't know the prices to set. 01:01 octacian rubenwardy: this is gonna be fun then.. 01:01 octacian Wait, it's simple. Inkscape 01:01 rubenwardy blender or by screenshoting, I guess :P 01:01 betterthanyou710 blenders fun 01:01 Hijiri you could set the standard as 1 diamond = something and price everything else against that 01:01 KaadmY shamoanjac: rails are raillike drawtype 01:01 octacian There is a type of grid in inkscape that makes stuff like that easy 01:01 Void7 hexagonal grid? 01:01 shamoanjac true 01:01 octacian yep 01:02 shamoanjac just use the free market lmao 01:02 KaadmY i could probably even write a python script to autogenerate isometeric blocks 01:02 rubenwardy Hijiri, nolsen, much more fun would be a supply/demand based price adjusting store 01:02 octacian That would be really useful, KaadmY 01:02 rubenwardy difficult to balance on low pop though 01:02 Hijiri rubenwardy: increase price as supply goes down and decrease for up? 01:02 rubenwardy yeah 01:03 rubenwardy and same for demand 01:03 Hijiri how do you measure demand? 01:03 octacian rubenwardy: can nodeboxeditor generate that stuff? if not, you should try and add that functionality. 01:03 rubenwardy buyers of that product 01:03 Hijiri it could just be purely-demand based and have the shop contain infinite 01:03 rubenwardy octacian: it potentially code, if I placed a camera in the right place 01:03 Hijiri or should players be providing all the material 01:03 shamoanjac pure demand with infinite supplies will create bubbles of speculation 01:03 rubenwardy but I'd suggest keeping a window for it: min and max price of a product 01:04 octacian Then u should do it lol. Sorry though, I can't help, still have basically no C++ experience 01:04 octacian rubenwardy: btw, NBE, can it create mode advanced nodes such as stairs? 01:04 octacian *more 01:04 rubenwardy yeah, it can make any nodebox 01:05 rubenwardy although with a lot of boxes you may have a UI problem - there's no grouping or box children 01:05 octacian HOW? lol. I can only figure out how to, for example, make a node thinner. 01:05 rubenwardy Click + to make a new box 01:05 rubenwardy and use the text list to select a box 01:06 octacian I'll mess around more I guess.. I've heard meshes are better for resources though, aren't they? 01:06 rubenwardy you'd have to optimise them 01:06 rubenwardy so meshes exported straight from NBE will be the same speed as the node boxes from it 01:06 rubenwardy except for load time, meshes load slighty faster 01:07 rubenwardy meshes are better for resources as you can generally do them using less vertices 01:07 rubenwardy NBE was designed before mesh support 01:07 octacian How do you create a lua sandbox like with LuaControllers from mesecons? I have to do it for my latest project, digicompute (originally got the idea from digiterm). 01:09 Void7 octacian: http://lua-users.org/wiki/SandBoxes 01:09 Void7 luacontrollers have a very locked-down sandbox 01:11 octacian That's around what I'm gonna have to do. Right now, I think computers can run functions like mt.kick, and when a computer crashes, the whole server does 01:12 Void7 also probably need a time limit so stuff like infinite loops will not hang the server 01:13 octacian Yeah. 01:13 octacian BTW, which example is best? Lua 5.1 or 5.2? They both do the same, right? 01:15 octacian I'll have to think about it, but not sure how I'd use the sandbox. Code is executed from a physical filesystem unique to each computer. 01:16 Void7 lua 5.2 does not support 5.1 method 01:16 Void7 not sure about other way around 01:16 octacian LuaControllers use 5.1 method 01:16 Void7 yeah, probably 01:22 Hijiri octacian: how will you make computers carry on the same computation from before? Will they have to manually yield? 01:23 Hijiri from before as in between server ticks 01:29 octacian Hijiri: I don't understand what you mean. Info such as input and output (& formspec of course) is stored in meta, as well as any other information regarding what the computer is doing at the time. 01:30 Hijiri ok 01:30 Hijiri so the computer isn't doing general programs? 01:34 octacian Hijiri: it will be capable of running programs in their own sandbox (e.g. nano based text editor), and information about what is running at the time and custom formspec data will be stored in respective meta keys. 01:35 Hijiri octacian: Are these programs that will be limited to finishing within one tick? 01:35 Hijiri actually, I should just ask what information you are storing 01:43 iama200 hii 01:43 octacian I hadn't thought about then taking more than one tick to finish. It's all plain lua though, so that shouldn't be an issue, should it? 01:44 octacian Hijiri: I store process name, input, output, formspec, that's about it. In fact, I'm not storing process name right now. 01:44 octacian The application or os has access to meta though. 01:46 octacian and os 01:52 Hijiri so the process has to run within one tick? 01:53 Hijiri oh, sorry 01:53 Hijiri didn't read 01:53 Hijiri the reason it's an issue is because it's plain lua 01:53 Hijiri it's hard to go outside and look at where the computation is 01:54 Hijiri maybe if you import and use a lua VM or something 01:54 Hijiri then you'd also get to measure memory usage 02:00 octacian I still don't quite understand why I'd need to do that, Hijiri. Maybe I'll see as I continue. idk.. 02:22 Void7 why does minetest raise segmentation fault? from a stack trace it seems to be in Camera::drawWieldedTool 02:28 Void7 i tried software mode, still segfaults 02:28 Void7 i'm using irrlicht 1.7.3, if that helps 02:28 Void7 version is "Minetest 0.4.14-dev-e559f87" 02:30 est31 Void7, can you paste the stacktrace somewhere 02:30 est31 (not here) 02:31 Void7 ok 02:31 KaadmY i've seen people paste debug logs on channels without autokick enabled 02:31 KaadmY it goes on for almost forever 02:31 KaadmY one time it kept printing for ~5 minutes 02:33 Void7 http://pastebin.com/cH6u14fP 02:34 est31 oh, it looks like a driver bug 02:34 est31 the trace is inside the driver 02:34 Void7 software mode also segfaults 02:35 est31 weird 02:35 est31 do you have a stacktrace from that one too 02:35 KaadmY theoretically software isn't in the driver 02:35 Void7 yes it isn't 02:35 KaadmY i've had the same problem with mismatching irrlicht versions 02:35 KaadmY or, similar problems 02:35 KaadmY basically seg fault before the menu 02:36 est31 theoretically software isn't in the driver 02:36 est31 what do you mean 02:36 est31 there are multiple parts of what a "driver" is 02:36 KaadmY yeah 02:36 Void7 http://pastebin.com/U4yy2hdd 02:36 est31 its the firmware of the gfx card 02:36 est31 plus some kernel level code 02:37 est31 plus some code that talks with the kernel level code 02:37 est31 all cann be called "driver" 02:37 est31 can* 02:37 Void7 could it be irrlicht problems? 02:38 est31 it can be what KaadmY said 02:38 Void7 i'll try irrlicht >1.8 02:38 est31 maybe your include path includes a version of irrlicht different from the so path 02:38 KaadmY he checked that already 02:38 KaadmY but.. 02:38 KaadmY never hurts to try it if it's not already working 02:38 est31 its all made harder with cmake caching all these paths 02:38 KaadmY yeah 02:39 KaadmY you can remove the build/ directory and restart 02:39 KaadmY but then you lose everything if you've changed cache files 03:09 Void7 new irrlicht, still crash 03:09 Void7 nvm 03:10 swift110-phone hey 03:12 Void7 ? 03:18 swift110-phone how are you void7 03:18 Void7 good :) 03:19 Void7 MT compile status 51% 03:26 Void7 75% 03:26 swift110-phone good 03:26 swift110-phone ehat 03:27 swift110-phone why did you compile it 03:27 Void7 MT compile stat 03:27 Void7 trying to fix segmentation fault 03:30 Void7 still seg fault :( 03:30 Void7 anyway gtg now 03:56 swift110-phone ok 06:17 celeron55 here's an interesting side note to this night's FOSS flame war: back when i wanted to change the license to something else from GPL in 2011, i actually thought of a license that would be non-commercial until 6 months from release or so, after which it would be the same as LGPL or whatever, and before which only i would have had permission for selling it 06:17 celeron55 but i decided getting people on board of that would have been too difficult and also i'm not a lawyer so it would probably have ended up somehow broken 06:18 celeron55 i think a license like that should exist though 06:19 celeron55 also, est31 was correct in the fact that none of minetest existed in 2009 06:20 celeron55 it's probably not strictly a problem in the case of @minetest though, dunno 06:24 celeron55 i probably need a @minetest.net email address and i can't be bothered to make one especially as the registration functionality of yandex is broken 06:24 celeron55 which handles them 06:24 celeron55 "Content Security Policy: The page's settings blocked the loading of a resource at self ("script-src https://mail.yandex.com 'unsafe-eval' 'nonce-015e3c307cdcde416fd7e9683021d8bh' https://mc.yandex.ru https://social.yandex.com https://yastatic.net")." 06:25 celeron55 like... what even is this shit 07:28 AntumDeluge Is there any way to prioritize loading mods, other than using "depends.txt"? I want to load craft_guide before all others. 07:53 Megaf Good morning gentlemen 08:01 Megaf Bonjour FirePowi, 08:20 Megaf Cool, github works without javascript 08:23 Megaf agaran: Are you there sir? 08:26 Megaf man, I want a Power9 laptop workstation so badly. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-4.8-More-POWER9 08:35 Megaf agaran: Would you be kind enough to help us brainstorm this? https://github.com/Megaf/Electrical-Engineering-For-Minetest/issues/1#issuecomment-236422656 08:35 Megaf anyone is free to join the discussion 08:35 Megaf !title 08:35 MinetestBot Megaf: TODO List [Alpha1] · Issue #1 · Megaf/Electrical-Engineering-For-Minetest · GitHub 08:49 Megaf So, acording to Opera Beta, my personal website loads in 00:01.89 seconds with adds and in 00:00.99 without ads. 08:50 Megaf Funny thing is, I didn't put any ad at all in my website. It's just a clean wordpress installation with one single plugin 08:50 Megaf I have to track down now what is this supposed ad 08:52 Megaf maybe it's statcounter 08:57 Megaf And the web looks so good and fast without ads and javascript 09:01 aix hi all 09:10 aix will mapgen touch ANY already generated land? 09:10 aix if i change it 09:10 aix (the mapgen) 09:13 FirePowi Bonjour Megaf 09:14 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy World Wide Web Day! 😃 09:14 Megaf Yep, StatCounter plugin does slow the website down indeed 09:15 Megaf aix: Usually no, but backup your map first 09:16 Megaf aix: on my server I switched from v6 to v7 for a couple of hours to generate some v7 terrain, then switched back to v6, no harm done in already generated terrain 09:16 Megaf same applies to nether, nether did not regenerate already generated underground mines 09:16 Megaf aix: so it should be mostly safe, but again, backup your world before you try anything 09:16 Megaf happy WWW day JamesTait! 09:29 Megaf ok, Akismet has no impact at all on the website performance 09:33 aix okay 09:37 aix https://sr.ht/_NVQ.png lol i hid this chest somewhere in the sky and forgot it was there 09:43 aix reckon i should keep v7 on? 09:43 Megaf aix: we have lots of hidden chest in Megaf Server 09:44 Megaf by me and players, we call them treasures 09:44 aix anything as rediculous as mine? 09:44 Megaf wow 09:44 Megaf usually we put precious metals and rare minarals 09:45 aix https://sr.ht/gZ9b.png 09:45 Megaf like mithrill,diamonds and mese 09:45 aix mine has some unspawnable stuff 09:45 aix uh 09:45 aix ungettable 09:45 aix spawned in 09:46 Megaf about mapgen, you can try in a local game mapgens and then decide what you want 09:51 Hijiri AntumDeluge: there is no way to do it from the mod sidd 09:51 Hijiri sie 09:51 Hijiri side* 09:51 Hijiri A user could put craft_guide as trusted 09:52 Hijiri all trusted mods are run before untrusted mods 09:52 Hijiri (If security is on) 10:52 Calinou https://github.com/anishathalye/lumen/issues/7 (Linux port) has more reactions than https://github.com/anishathalye/lumen/issues/8 (Windows port) 10:52 Calinou :D 10:56 AntumDeluge Thank you Hijiri 11:39 Megaf ok, I just switched from nginx + hhvm to hhvm with the built in proxygen web server. Happy enough 11:39 Calinou hhvm's main purpose is to eat more RAM now that PHP 7 was released :P 11:40 Megaf and actually my website was faster with nginx 11:40 Megaf hm 11:41 Megaf memory use is lower tho 11:42 Megaf Calinou: ^ 12:28 aix hi 12:29 shamoanjac okay so I have this funny problem with Lua 12:30 shamoanjac there is a function which is 4function banners.Banner:push_transform(self, transform) 12:30 shamoanjac which is just a wrapper for 3table.insert(self.transforms, transform) 12:31 shamoanjac yet when it gets launched from a smartfs callback, I get 4init.lua:57: bad argument #1 to 'insert' (table expected, got nil) 12:31 shamoanjac on the line 3state.banner:push_transform({texture="banner_defaulttex.png", mask=self.name..".png"}) 12:34 Calinou 12try blue text, it makes your code automatically work 12:35 Calinou 03green is not great at that 12:35 Calinou :) 12:35 aix 03>using green text at all 12:40 sfan5 shamoanjac: have you tried declaring it as function banners.Banner.push_transform(self, transform) 12:40 sfan5 (. instead of :) 12:43 shamoanjac uhm I'll try 12:44 shamoanjac I don't really understand the difference between the two ways 12:44 shamoanjac I thought colons were needed for objects 12:44 shamoanjac well it changed the error 12:45 shamoanjac that's something 12:45 shamoanjac 2attempt to index global 5'self' 12:46 shamoanjac oh shit I made it work 12:47 shamoanjac it was that I had also switched the constructor to a dot 12:47 shamoanjac instead of keeping the colon 12:47 shamoanjac come on banners are near completion 12:52 shamoanjac now I'm getting 5"attempt to call 'get_transform_string()' (a nil value) 12:52 shamoanjac which is strange since the method get_transform_string() is defined the same as the push_transform 12:52 shamoanjac i.e. function banners.Banner.get_tranform_string(self) 12:52 shamoanjac the line causing the problem is 6state:get("banner_preview"):setImage(state.banner:get_transform_string()) 13:08 aix are there any lava swimming mods? 13:09 Calinou aix: probably quite a bit of them, but they won't cancel the red screen flash upon taking damage (which is cancelled) 13:09 Calinou also you'll die if you go in lava with less than 4.5 hearts 13:10 shamoanjac the red screen of damage needs to be removed 13:10 shamoanjac can't count the amount of times I've died while fleeing from mobs because I saw nothing due to the red screen 13:13 shamoanjac is there really no reason I get this nil error? 13:13 shamoanjac I can't find the difference between that function and the previous one 13:13 shamoanjac as why does one work and not the other 13:14 Calinou the red screen of damage needs to be removed 13:14 Calinou it could be replaced with a damage compass like you see in those modern games 13:14 shamoanjac yeah 13:14 Calinou removing flash entirely would be confusing, because the screen shake is hardly visible 13:14 sfan5 "those modern games" 13:14 Calinou I did that once, and had no idea I was taking damage 13:14 Calinou sfan5: yeah, even classic Doom had a damage compass somehow 13:14 shamoanjac because damage needs sound 13:14 Calinou status bar face turned in the direction of damage when you got hit from the sides 13:19 shamoanjac god the error was so stupid 13:19 shamoanjac yet another typo 13:19 shamoanjac calling "tranform" instead of "transform" 13:20 shamoanjac btw don't texture manipulation work inside of forms? 13:21 shamoanjac I'm getting 4ERROR[Main]: 3generateImage(): 6Could not load image "banner_defaulttex.png[mask:bend_left_outline.png" 13:23 Amaz Do you need ^ between .png and [ ? 13:23 sfan5 yes 13:23 sfan5 ^ is for overlaying textures 13:23 shamoanjac yes, I forgot that 13:23 sfan5 the [ is an indicator that it's a special thing 13:24 shamoanjac 4it is almost working 13:24 sfan5 !rainbow you use a lot of colors while chatting... 13:24 MinetestBot 4you 7use 8a lo3t of12 col6ors 13whil4e ch7atti8ng..3. 13:24 shamoanjac 4brace yourselves, banners are coming 13:24 shamoanjac I like colors 13:30 Calinou there needs to be a mod to ban banners 13:31 shamoanjac :( 13:38 Calinou haha 13:39 Calinou when you subscribe to Phoronix Premium, you can choose a duration 13:39 Calinou 1 year is $35, 3 years is $100, 100 years is $150 13:46 shamoanjac https://8ch.net/v/src/1470059194800.png 13:47 shamoanjac any idea why this bug of working with the texture only in a quarter of the image? 13:48 shamoanjac the size of the image is (4, 2), yet the results of transformations are only displayed in that (2,1) corner 13:54 Megaf This makes me happy http://uploadpie.com/oSJJw 13:55 Megaf a console for each of my OpenVZ containers on its own tmux window 13:55 Megaf no need for ssh on them anymore 13:56 Megaf who needs virtual machines and you have containers? 13:59 rubenwardy Hi all 13:59 rubenwardy does anyone know whether Worldedit can map nodes? Sort of like replace multiple at a time 13:59 rubenwardy you could use it to convert biomes, mostly 13:59 rubenwardy so dirt_with_snow -> dirt_with_grass, snow -> dirt, et 14:00 rubenwardy trees would be a problem 14:00 Megaf I think you have to go one my one 14:08 shamoanjac power went off 14:08 shamoanjac I don't know whether someone replied after I said 3 the size of the image is (4, 2), yet the results of transformations are only displayed in that (2,1) corner 14:08 aix https://github.com/cdqwertz/automation/blob/master/automation_machines/init.lua how does the quarry work? 14:08 aix i can't get the boiler to do anything 14:10 * dzho reads backscroll 14:11 sfan5 shamoanjac: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2016-08-01 14:12 Preuk hi 14:12 Preuk what is currently bundled lua version? 14:13 dzho I guess this is around the time the leakage into -dev started 20:37 <@OldCoder> So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS... 14:14 sfan5 Preuk: 5.1 iirc 14:14 shamoanjac thanks sfan5 14:14 Preuk ok thanks... couldn't find it in github repo, only 5yo comits on src/lua 14:15 sfan5 Preuk: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/lua/src/lua.h#L18 14:15 Preuk #define LUA_RELEASE"Lua 5.1.4" 14:16 Preuk thank you, i just realised there might be some constants defined 14:16 Preuk is lua upgrade planned? 14:17 sfan5 currently not 14:17 sfan5 there was some work for 5.2 and also 5.3 i think 14:17 Preuk there are integers in 5.3 that might be useful for a lot of use cases 14:17 sfan5 but it wasn't merged because of unresolved issues 14:17 Preuk ok 14:29 aix can anyone suggest a mod that's in "WIP mods" ? 14:29 aix i 27 pages is fair enough but i'm not going through 70 of them 14:49 Dragonop aix: depends on what you are looking for 14:49 aix anything 14:49 aix i looked through the whole mod releases section 14:49 aix and i still want something special 14:52 Megaf aix: what kind of mod you want? 14:53 aix something that adds building material ideally 14:53 aix but anything well, unique 14:53 rubenwardy anyone good with 3d modelling? I'd love to see a penguin mod 14:54 Shiftus I think there is an animals mod out there somewhere, not sure if it has penguins. If I had a better computer, I could learn Blender and build a model for penguins. 14:55 rubenwardy I know there are animal mods :P 14:55 Megaf Shiftus: blender doesnt require a better computer 14:55 Megaf you can use an old netbook for it 14:55 Shiftus I'm running XP 14:55 Megaf just the rendering might take a while 14:55 Shiftus With terrible graphics hardware 14:55 Shiftus And very little RAM 14:57 Megaf if you have a single core at 830 MHz, 2 GB of ram and an intel 945 GPU you can run blender already 14:57 Megaf comfortably 14:57 shamoanjac and you don't even need to render 14:58 Megaf just use the wireframe view and you are good to go 14:58 nm0i Morning 14:58 Megaf afternoon 14:58 Shiftus I don't have an intel GPU. :/ 14:59 Megaf Shiftus: so you have a better thing 14:59 Megaf 945 is a very shitty and old intel graphics card 14:59 Shiftus Maybe I do, I don't know. 14:59 Megaf from the early 2000s 14:59 Megaf lol, you don't know what is your graphic card? 14:59 Shiftus I haven't run the DirectX Diagnostics in a while on my current system 15:00 * Megaf is speechless 15:00 Megaf Shiftus: Are on a laptop or desktop? 15:00 Shiftus Desktop 15:00 Shiftus Very old desktop too 15:00 Megaf ok, is it a branded desktop? 15:01 Shiftus Dell 15:01 Shiftus It was preowned though 15:01 Megaf ok, somewhere is the model number of it 15:01 Shiftus I ran dxdiag.exe 15:01 Shiftus My Display Device, is a RAGE 128 Pro Ultra GL AGp 15:01 Preuk Megaf: when using more than one computer, it's pretty easy to forget what is in each one 15:02 Preuk rage 128 O_O 15:02 Megaf ok, that's old 15:02 Shiftus Yeah 15:02 Megaf very old 15:02 Megaf but should be more than good enough for blender 15:03 Megaf or maybe not 15:03 Megaf I'm impressed that Minetest runs on it 15:03 Megaf it's OpenGL 1.0 only 15:04 Megaf Shiftus: I'm reading about blender here, your desktop should run it just fine 15:04 Shiftus If I understood correctly, I'm getting new hardware this week 15:05 Shiftus In addition, Minetest doesn't even open a world or a server, just gives me a Connection Timeout 15:05 Preuk i must admit we were using blender on similar hardware 10 years ago, ran pretty fine (unless you tried rendering) 15:06 Shiftus I haven't even installed it. 15:06 Shiftus I have very little RAM... 15:06 Megaf if you have 128 MB it will be enough 15:06 Megaf I remember running XP with 64 MB 15:07 Megaf on a Pentium III, I think it was a 300 MHz Pentium III 15:07 Megaf or 500 MHz 15:38 Calinou Rage 128 had troubles even running Q3A, IIRC 15:38 Calinou anyone good with 3d modelling? I'd love to see a penguin mod 15:39 Calinou I'd be happy if someone made mob models with non-crappy models/textures :| 15:39 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/penguin 15:39 Calinou I cringe every time I see that cow or boar from Mobs Redo 15:39 rubenwardy I used a non voxelly penguin from OGA 15:39 rubenwardy and the bunny code 15:39 rubenwardy but ideally I'd like animation 15:40 rubenwardy and for them to either waddle or slide down hills 15:40 Calinou I don't know about Blender animation :/ 15:42 aix https://sr.ht/qZRz.png ready for the light bugs... 15:51 shamoanjac agrecascino, 15:51 agrecascino ? 15:51 agrecascino shamoanjac, ? 15:52 shamoanjac check dis 15:52 shamoanjac 1 moment 15:52 shamoanjac blob:https://imgur.com/0a46e44f-4209-4b63-9b36-2c057b4658c0 15:53 shamoanjac disregard the corner bug 15:54 sfan5 try again, that's not a correct imgur link 15:54 shamoanjac welp 15:55 shamoanjac http://imgur.com/WMp9qSl 15:55 agaran Megaf: I am 15:55 shamoanjac though I wanted to post only the png 15:55 agaran Megaf: I was at work, no irc there 15:55 Megaf No worries 15:56 Calinou made shovel textures for my texture pack, committing 15:56 Megaf I wish IRC clients had a /busy command, that would turn all notifications off. 15:56 agaran usually I am on irc about this time for few hours (till evening) 15:56 agaran oh, I'd forget to use it likely then 15:56 Calinou also, flowing lava is now animated 15:57 Calinou someone made a pull request :) 15:57 agaran on morning, thats like 5am for me, I would forget to do anything as I am on auto-guidance to work.. half asleep 15:57 sfan5 Megaf: try just closing the client 15:58 Megaf heh 15:59 Megaf how nonsese would creating a swap image in a ram disk would be? 16:01 est31 swap image in a ramdisk? 16:01 est31 thats real nonsense indeed 16:02 agaran Megaf: depends what you want to do.. but in general little, unless your machine has more memory than it can cache.. 16:02 agaran there were machines like that.. and then uncached memory was really too slow for main mem but perfect for super fast swap 16:05 Calinou swap on the GPU makes a lot of sense though 16:05 Calinou https://github.com/graphitemaster/moreram 16:05 Calinou you need a X server for it though 16:06 Calinou a relatively recent GPU, with OpenGL 3.3 support 16:06 Calinou also see the Arch Linux wiki on how to use VRAM as swap in a more conventional manner 16:06 Megaf Calinou: that's interesting 16:06 Megaf swap faster that main memory 16:07 Megaf Calinou: I could use that to get some of the memory my GPU takes from the main system memory back to the system, lol 16:08 Calinou here I have 8 GB of VRAM :) 16:13 agaran thats a lot 16:14 Megaf Calinou: is there a command to see that? 16:14 agaran glxinfo? 16:15 Calinou Megaf: not sure 16:15 Calinou agaran: not sure if glxinfo has that 16:15 agaran has at least version of opengl.. mine is working with ogl 3.3 but does not have that much vram 16:16 Megaf Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Mullins [Radeon R2 Graphics] bus-ID: 00:01.0 chip-ID: 1002:9853 16:16 Megaf Display Server: X.org 1.18.4 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) 16:16 Megaf tty size: 194x55 Advanced Data: N/A for root 16:16 Megaf that doesn't says much does it? 16:16 agaran not really a lot.. 16:17 agaran Megaf: there were issues with server yesterday, was very sluggish with abm and such, was it because of that entity lifetime? 16:18 Megaf yep 16:18 Megaf it's fixed now 16:21 * Megaf watching interestellar 16:21 Megaf interstellar* 16:21 agaran nice movie 16:22 agaran I was thinking about some better idea than increasing entity ttl.. 16:22 Megaf using mpv, vdpau video output and decoder, and 128MB of cache 16:22 Megaf so mooth 16:23 Megaf smooth 16:23 agaran Megaf: server is still odd.. opening/closing door needs half minute to react.. 16:24 Megaf really? let me check 16:25 Megaf 2016-08-01 13:24:37: [Server] CHAT: agaran, memory leak on the server, I have to restart it 16:25 agaran meh, 16:25 agaran maybe better to have too short ttl then.. 16:27 Megaf and now CPU leak 16:27 Megaf agaran: I will update it from git, hold on 16:27 agaran I saw -inf,4.5,something as coordinate 16:27 agaran awesome 16:30 Megaf compiling the new version already, will also reboot the server after that, just in case 16:34 Megaf agaran: you can return now if you wish 16:40 agaran sure, moment 16:43 Megaf I wish I could use sqlite with wordpress, 16:51 agaran Megaf: still is a bit lagged.. travelnet queries show up with delay.. or it is just me/ 16:52 Megaf agaran: man, minetestserver just decided to use lots of CPU 16:52 agaran Megaf: ah.. :) so I shall stop moving? 16:55 Megaf agaran: are you exploring new lands? 16:55 Megaf mapgen could trigger that 16:55 agaran nope.. wandering under spawn 16:56 Megaf mght be the mobs mod 16:56 Megaf will disable it 16:58 Megaf agaran: server is back to normal I think 16:59 agaran ping reduced to less than half of previous.. 17:00 Megaf agaran: still 100% CPU use 17:00 Megaf agaran: that's why I quit Minetest once 17:00 agaran hmm watching just farms underground, you placed buches manually? 17:01 Megaf stayed away from it as long as I could, then my former players begun to insist for me to get a server back 17:01 agaran I see 17:03 Megaf and these memory leaks and CPU spikes seem to be totally random 17:03 Megaf it works everything perfectly today, tomorow CPU will be at 100% for no reason 17:04 Megaf agaran: anyway, I found a work around the issue, server is back and there is people online already 17:04 Megaf !server Megaf 17:04 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms 17:05 Megaf !server Megaf 17:05 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms 17:05 Megaf lier, theres two clients there 17:07 aix is there a mod that uses inventory+ that allows you to add bookmarks? 17:07 aix nevermind, i got it 17:08 aix hope this still works 17:34 AntumDeluge Is there a mod that allows marking spots on the minimap? 17:35 est31 not, its not possible to do that atm 17:36 AntumDeluge Okay. Code would have to be changed in the main Minetest source? 17:37 est31 yes 17:39 Zedicius Mhm, does anyone know if it's possible to reduce biome size in v7? Or would that require custom lua mapgen? 17:41 Void7 Zedicius: yes there's a way 17:46 Zedicius Any idea where I can find how? 17:48 Void7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1092 17:48 Void7 heat and humidity are used for biome sizes 17:48 Void7 Zedicius: ^ 17:56 Zedicius Interesting... so that's what biomes are chosen. Thanks! 17:58 Void7 biomes are chosen by the closest heat/humidity 18:00 Guest242352 Hello 18:02 Zedicius Yep, I found the chart on the forums. 18:12 aix https://sr.ht/EuJ6.txt should this be happening? 18:12 aix every node in the game does not need a stair 18:13 shamoanjac mese_ore_stair 18:13 shamoanjac :^) 18:22 aix it was xdecor 18:24 aix okay so i removed some stairs which don't work as well, stairs 18:24 aix like mese 18:24 aix who the hell wants mese stairs 18:24 Shiftus Me 18:24 Guest22345 who the hell doesn't wont mese stairs? 18:25 Guest22345 want* 18:35 shamoanjac is there a tool to generate minetest world maps? 18:38 aix me 18:38 aix thats why i removed them 18:43 agrecascino shamoanjac, i personally like palm trees in the tundra 18:44 shamoanjac lel 18:44 shamoanjac I'm trying to install ethereal 18:44 shamoanjac see if settings and stuff can be tweaked for more consistent generation 18:46 shamoanjac also since we don't want map reboots we should add tons of different metals right from the beginning just in case 18:47 aix what's a decent mod for lights? 18:47 aix i've tried so many and they're either full blocks or a whole modpack 18:47 aix i just need, say, a bulb 18:53 Shiftus I think Vanessa's homedecor has some good lighting options. 18:55 betterthanyou710 hi 18:58 aix yes but 18:58 aix it's huge 18:59 nosrick Anyone about? 18:59 Void7 yes 18:59 Void7 several people in fact 19:00 aix many, many people 19:00 nosrick How would I go about contributing to MineTest? I've got an idea to basically port Minecraft's capabilities system so that people can implement their own stuff, like player level, mana, etc. 19:00 nosrick It's something I feel MineTest is sorely missing. 19:00 sfan5 first: it's Minetest not MineTest 19:01 nosrick Ah, so it is. 19:01 sfan5 second: take a look at the C++ code that powers the engine 19:01 nosrick I have done, a little. 19:01 aix nosrick: not all of us play mc, please explain what the capabilities system is 19:01 aix hell i play mc and i have no idea what it is 19:01 nosrick It's the system that allows for the tracking of variables on a player. 19:02 nosrick Like level, XP. 19:02 nosrick It can also be extended to do things like mana, which I've used it for previously in Minecraft. 19:03 OldCoder I guess this is around the time the leakage into -dev started 20:37 <@OldCoder> So, we're agreed, I think... there are things to settle about FOSS... 19:03 OldCoder Not much "leakage" 19:03 OldCoder Somebody there said there was a flame war; I explained that there was not 19:03 OldCoder Not much of one 19:09 Zedicius Anyone here familiar with Technic? Is there any way to determine the 'output' side on a furnace? 19:09 betterthanyou710 VanessaE you on 19:10 betterthanyou710 Zedicius: She can probably help you if you see her on 19:11 Zedicius Owkay, thanks! 19:20 aix guys 19:20 aix i need an opinion 19:20 aix i should say that after i have the scrot, sorry 19:21 aix https://sr.ht/4Et8.png 19:21 aix it's better on the inside, i swear 19:27 rubenwardy The awards mod now has progress bars! http://pasteboard.co/3vxj6tzu5.png 19:27 betterthanyou710 nice 19:39 WSDguy2014 Hi. Can you add "minetest-server.exe" on 0.5? Becasue, i don't know how to make my server without using a minetesthosting website :( 19:40 agrecascino install gentoo 19:40 WSDguy2014 I'm using OS Windows 7 Ultimate 19:41 Amaz Just run the .exe with --server after it. 19:41 agrecascino does anyone know what's wrong with the simple helicopters mod? 19:41 agrecascino it just teleports me to the middle nowhere 19:41 nm0i agrecascino: I double that. 19:41 nm0i Install gentoo 19:42 agrecascino middle of nowhere* 19:43 shamoanjac install gentoo 19:44 WSDguy2014 I'm going to try run my server with good old minetest version 0.4.3... 19:45 agrecascino WSDguy2014, how old is that build? 19:47 WSDguy2014 agrecascino, let me think... 19:47 shamoanjac must be 2012 or something like that 19:47 WSDguy2014 yeah, released on 2012. 19:48 rubenwardy WSDguy2014: minetest.exe --server 19:48 rubenwardy make a shortcut by right clicking the exe file 19:48 rubenwardy right click the shortcut, click propertie 19:48 rubenwardy then edit the link to be something like 19:48 agrecascino minetestserver needs a /reload command 19:48 rubenwardy "C://path/to/minetest.exe --server" 19:49 rubenwardy agrecascino: reload mods? Too difficult to add now 19:49 shamoanjac anyone knows where to find minetestmapper? 19:50 shamoanjac didn't find anything on the forums nor github? 19:50 shamoanjac didn't mean to add the question mark to that last one 19:51 rubenwardy shamoanjac, http://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper 19:54 shamoanjac welp 19:54 shamoanjac thanks 19:59 agaran minetest-0.4.14+repack/src/util/serialize.h:278: void writeF1000(irr::u8*, irr::f32): Assertion `i >= ((float)(s32)((-0x7FFFFFFF - 1) / 1000.0f)) && i <= ((float)(s32)((0x7FFFFFFF) / 1000.0f))' failed. thats some known feature? 20:00 WSDguy2014 i have to restart computer, to set my language to english (USA) and i will be right back... 20:00 sfan5 agaran: it failed to serialize a float because it was weird 20:00 agaran sfan5: ok but.. I did nothing to make weird floats ;) 20:04 shamoanjac 3>windows 20:04 shamoanjac 3>have to restart computer to change locale 20:04 shamoanjac [laughs in freedom] 20:08 agaran sfan5: if I got it for second time in 10 minutes? 20:11 sfan5 check which mods you have installed 20:12 agaran ones used at moment of crash (any node of these in region of singleplayer I am in) technic and pipeworks and moreores 20:14 agaran not a big deal just 2 crashes, but if there is something I can do to get more data for debugging, let me know. 20:22 WSDguy2014 I'm back. 20:26 WSDguy2014 I don't know, creating server with .exe or .bat? I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate. 20:26 rubenwardy WSDguy2014, http://superuser.com/questions/413939/how-to-start-a-program-with-command-line-arguments-on-windows-cmd-with-start 20:29 WSDguy2014 umm, i open cmd and now what? 20:31 rubenwardy make a file called startserver.bat in your bin folder. Open it using notepad, and enter the following: 20:32 rubenwardy start /b "" "minetest.exe" --server --worldname "worldname" 20:32 rubenwardy that should work 20:33 rubenwardy I really don't recommend using Windows to host a server 20:33 rubenwardy and I don't recommend hosting a public server on your home network 20:33 rubenwardy especially a 24/7 one 20:33 rubenwardy most internet service providers don't allow you to 20:33 WSDguy2014 i'm just going to try making a private server for my friends. 20:34 rubenwardy and if they do, then residential networks still suck for this (they usually reset every so often) 20:34 rubenwardy that's fine then 20:43 WSDguy2014 Thanks. Now it's working! 21:02 Calinou >have to restart computer to change locale 21:03 Calinou sign-out/sign-in is required, not a full reboot 21:03 Calinou at least on Windows 8.1/10 21:03 Calinou this is pretty much also the case on GNU/Linux 21:03 Calinou where you'll want to sign-out/sign-in to make a full locale change 21:03 Calinou else some applications won't have their language changed until you do that 21:04 shamoanjac the guy stated he used Windows 7 21:04 shamoanjac so I guess that's one of these revolutionary features introduced by Windows 8 21:05 Calinou Windows 10 API is quite better than Windows 7 21:05 Calinou like, you can get screen DPI easily (since 8) 21:05 Calinou latest Windows 10 versions support simple ANSI color codes in the console 21:05 Calinou (no 256 colors, though, and even less true color) 21:12 Zedicius Mhm, I assume there's still no way to change a block's textures? I'll have to switch out the node? 21:13 shamoanjac changing a block's texture should be the next PR on github 21:13 shamoanjac though my guess is it would imply touching many, many areas of the engine 21:14 Zedicius So I'll have to assume it won't happen any time soon :) 21:16 rubenwardy I HATE FORMSPECS SO MUCH 21:16 rubenwardy Why does background[x,y;w,h;texture] work normally, but when used in the I inventory it messes up? 21:17 rubenwardy I'm using background to display a progress bar below a label, but when I put use it in (i) rather than show_formspec, it fills the entire screen 21:19 agaran night 21:24 rubenwardy why are these backgrounds displayed full screen? https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d1c6455c50f2d4b17c4a131190d0d6c#file-gistfile1-txt-L9-L10 21:27 rubenwardy this works as expected 21:27 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d1c6455c50f2d4b17c4a131190d0d6c#file-works-txt 21:28 rubenwardy so background[5,5;1,1;gui_formbg.png;true] causes other backgrounds to no work 21:28 rubenwardy *not 21:29 shamoanjac rubenwardy, I have problems with textures in formspecs too lel 21:29 shamoanjac I've opened an issue 21:29 shamoanjac on the minetest github 21:29 shamoanjac https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4396 21:29 rubenwardy different issue though 21:30 shamoanjac could be related 21:45 Zedicius Huh, weird bug. If I try to spawn an item in my inventory, and I have the quick slot selected where it's supposed to appear, it doesn't. 22:08 aix I'm gonna call my brewery "Sky Hi High" 23:37 agrecascino hey shamoanjac 23:37 agrecascino make flans mod for minetest pls 23:39 rubenwardy Awards 2.3 released! https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4870 23:51 shamoanjac flans? 23:51 shamoanjac as in food? 23:56 agrecascino shamoanjac, flans as in airplanes as in 9/11 23:57 shamoanjac wut