| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 02:05 |
tb01110100 |
hello all, new to minetest. What is a mapgen, and why is it not auto-set to the (seemingly) newest version? |
| 02:09 |
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| 02:13 |
rickmcfarley |
I believe it is how the world is generated and v7 is still in development...i think |
| 02:14 |
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| 02:16 |
tb01110100 |
dear lord, how deep does this thing go? |
| 02:17 |
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| 02:19 |
exio4 |
tb01110100, mapgen is the name for the "part" of the engine/game that generates the map, and the "stable" one is the v6, v7 is basically "in dev and may break at any moment", singlenode is for mods (it's basically "leave the mapgen to mods") |
| 02:19 |
tb01110100 |
v5? |
| 02:19 |
exio4 |
v5 is an old mapgen "taken back to life", no idea how stable it is |
| 02:19 |
exio4 |
about deep, it goes to -32k~ |
| 02:20 |
exio4 |
-32000 to +32000 |
| 02:20 |
exio4 |
in all sides |
| 02:23 |
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| 02:25 |
LazyJ |
What setting do I need to change to get mapgen water and lava sources to produce their flowing versions? |
| 02:26 |
LazyJ |
When I place a liquid source, they start flowing immediately but the sources created by the mapgen (v6) are static until I place a node near them. |
| 02:26 |
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| 02:45 |
ShadowNinja |
LazyJ: Call vm:update_liquids() on all chunks maybe? But they probably should update. This may be a bug related to the recent liquid update queue changes. |
| 02:46 |
marktraceur |
I'm having to actually think about extra storage for iron blocks. Nuclear reactors and quarries are amazing. |
| 02:46 |
LazyJ |
I've noticed it for over a month; just assumed I didn't have a setting right. |
| 02:46 |
marktraceur |
That is all. |
| 02:46 |
ShadowNinja |
tb01110100: Use v6 of you care about stability. v7 is incomplete and v5 is experimental. |
| 02:47 |
ShadowNinja |
if* |
| 02:48 |
LazyJ |
Last year there was a similar problem with water sources not appearing to flow in the texture pack I use (64px). VanessaE and karhl (I think it was karhl) suggested increasing the liquid_loop to 100000, which worked and is now the default. |
| 02:49 |
LazyJ |
I tried that and the liquid_update - no joys and it is occurring in the default texture pack and affects lava_sources. |
| 02:49 |
LazyJ |
In later stages of MT 0.4.10 I would wait, maybe 20-30 seconds, and then the lava would flow. |
| 02:50 |
LazyJ |
But the 2015_01_04 Github release (as of 2hrs ago) has static liquid sources. |
| 02:51 |
LazyJ |
*mapgen* created liquid sources. Placed liquid sources flow as they should. |
| 02:52 |
LazyJ |
My "test" is to create a new, vanilla, test world and fly down through the ground till I find a lava lake and then I hover by the lava sources, waiting for them to start flowing. |
| 02:53 |
LazyJ |
I made a fresh cup of coffee and the lava still hadn't begun to flow. |
| 02:53 |
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| 02:53 |
LazyJ |
Then I flew up to the surface and skimmed for a dungeon in the water. When I found one, it was an open-topped dungeon *under* water but the water wasn't flowing into the dungeon. |
| 02:54 |
LazyJ |
Unfortunately I don't have any technical details to help pin-point the problem. |
| 03:04 |
Sokomine |
hi |
| 03:04 |
LazyJ |
o/ |
| 03:04 |
Sokomine |
do you know of any other significant mods that add trees? 3 from normal mapgen, moretrees, mg, realtest, ethereal, forest, ...? |
| 03:05 |
LazyJ |
Bas080 had a mini-version of MoreTrees called "Trees". |
| 03:05 |
Sokomine |
ah, that's right. i wanted to check that one out as well. i liked it a lot and used it in singleplayer. i'm not sure if it came with its own wood |
| 03:06 |
Sokomine |
the villages look best if the wood is randomly exchanged with other wood types |
| 03:06 |
LazyJ |
iirc, it uses some of MoreTrees nodes and adds a few of it's own. |
| 03:06 |
LazyJ |
Checking my notes for URLs... |
| 03:07 |
Sokomine |
don't worry |
| 03:07 |
LazyJ |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5713 |
| 03:07 |
Sokomine |
i have it bookmarked and even opened in a tab iirc |
| 03:07 |
LazyJ |
https://github.com/bas080/trees |
| 03:10 |
Sokomine |
ah. found it. thanks :-) |
| 03:11 |
LazyJ |
You know those large shadows that appear on a Minetest landscape for no visible reason?... I'm getting grid-like version in paramat's Watershed mapgen. |
| 03:12 |
LazyJ |
This didn't happen a few days ago. |
| 03:12 |
LazyJ |
The only thing that has changed in that time is the MT engine. |
| 03:12 |
LazyJ |
*But* I haven't seen this shadow grid appear in mapgen v6. |
| 03:13 |
LazyJ |
Is this something to post an issue on Watershed's GitHub or MT engines, do you reckon? |
| 03:18 |
Sokomine |
hmm. you ought to talk to paramat about these |
| 03:19 |
Sokomine |
i do get a lot of shadows as well when creating the villages. the shadows disappear when the mapchunks above and/or next to the current chunk are loaded |
| 03:21 |
LazyJ |
Link to the screenshot for the curious: |
| 03:21 |
LazyJ |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/shadow_grid_2015_01_04_mt0411_watershed.png |
| 03:22 |
Brains |
Facedirs should only be 0 - 23, correct? |
| 03:24 |
Sokomine |
that's right |
| 03:29 |
Brains |
That explains the segfault then. |
| 03:36 |
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| 03:41 |
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| 03:48 |
LazyJ |
So do error messages like these mean trouble for old worlds?: |
| 03:48 |
LazyJ |
19:47:50: ERROR[main]: Resolver: Failed to resolve node name 'mapgen_water_source'. |
| 03:48 |
LazyJ |
19:47:50: ERROR[main]: Resolver: Failed to resolve node name 'mapgen_water_source'. |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
that means it couldn't find a node with an alias or a name of "mapgen_water_source" which it needs |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
no worries if you're not using a map generation algorithm that utilizes biomes |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
you can ignore that |
| 03:50 |
LazyJ |
Those came from old mapgen v6 worlds. |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
yup |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
like i said, you can ignore that |
| 03:50 |
LazyJ |
Ok. Thanks. |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
your game should probably define that alias somewhere though. |
| 03:50 |
LazyJ |
"minetest_game" |
| 03:51 |
LazyJ |
The server world is even older than these (still mapgen v6 and minetest_game from the MT 0.4.5 days). |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
weird, should be there. |
| 03:52 |
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| 03:52 |
LazyJ |
I haven't updated the server (still MT 0.4.10), so I can't be sure on that. |
| 03:53 |
LazyJ |
But those errors came from a couple of my old singleplayer worlds that I keep up. |
| 03:54 |
LittleJoe |
ok so I feel really stupid lol |
| 03:54 |
LittleJoe |
I increased the GUI scale factor all the way and I cannot access the sliding bar now... |
| 03:55 |
tb01110100 |
can fov be changed? |
| 03:55 |
LittleJoe |
no it's in the menu |
| 03:55 |
LazyJ |
LittleJoe, add: gui_scaling = 1.0 to your minetest.conf and that will return it to the default. |
| 03:56 |
LittleJoe |
ok |
| 03:57 |
LittleJoe |
thx LazyJ I didn't know where to start looking for the gui scale value : |
| 03:57 |
LazyJ |
yw ;) |
| 03:57 |
LazyJ |
minetest.conf.example has some clues. |
| 03:57 |
LittleJoe |
ok : ) |
| 03:57 |
LazyJ |
Mostly guess work what the stuff does, but at least it's someplace to start. |
| 04:00 |
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| 04:00 |
LazyJ |
Anyway, hmmmm, these old singleplayer worlds are run in the latest MT engine and minetest_game from GitHub. |
| 04:02 |
LazyJ |
I see a new commit related to NodeResolver: bdcf03a. Maybe that is the remedy. |
| 04:03 |
hmmmm |
the remedy...? |
| 04:03 |
LazyJ |
I compiled the latest from GitHub last night - these errors weren't there. |
| 04:03 |
LazyJ |
Then I compiled MT again about an hour ago - the errors appeared. |
| 04:04 |
hmmmm |
well, i don't get those errors at all |
| 04:04 |
hmmmm |
sounds to me like you might've done something with your mods that erased the mapgen_water_source alias |
| 04:05 |
LazyJ |
Nope. Straight stuff with these old worlds (pre-date my Lua learning). |
| 04:05 |
hmmmm |
well, no idea. |
| 04:05 |
LazyJ |
Ok. |
| 04:06 |
LazyJ |
I'm going to download and compile MT again with the commits from about 20 minutes ago; see what has changed or not. |
| 04:13 |
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| 04:14 |
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| 04:14 |
paramat |
LazyJ, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1727#issuecomment-68627007 |
| 04:15 |
paramat |
due to a recent commit my use of vm:set_lighting({day=0, night=0}) now creates bugs |
| 04:15 |
hmmmm |
no, i fixed that |
| 04:16 |
LazyJ |
The work-around is to use WorldEdit to "//replace air air" |
| 04:16 |
paramat |
oh 2 mins ago |
| 04:17 |
paramat |
will test |
| 04:17 |
hmmmm |
> use bleeding-edge development version of software |
| 04:17 |
hmmmm |
> upset when something doesn't work |
| 04:17 |
hmmmm |
>mfw |
| 04:17 |
paramat |
lol you ninja'd me |
| 04:18 |
LazyJ |
I'm not upset. I know this stuff is bleeding edge, up-to-the-minute. Just reporting what I've come across. |
| 04:20 |
paramat |
i'm still going to change all my mods to use flags="nolight" since that makes more sense. after all i have to change 2D noisemap z size also |
| 04:20 |
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| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
i developed that LuaVoxelManip sample mapgen a little bit further and i use it for testing various changes |
| 04:22 |
hmmmm |
i was going to sorta release it as a mapgen-related-modding best practices thing but it's got a problem |
| 04:23 |
hmmmm |
http://fpaste.org/165649/31788142/ |
| 04:24 |
hmmmm |
at mapblock boundaries, it'll make a floor of sand inside of the caves |
| 04:26 |
hmmmm |
lol, that mapgen is so simple and it produces better results than mapgen v6. all it needs is lava |
| 04:26 |
paramat |
yeah good old 3D noise density-based mapgen |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
it's so stupidly simple though |
| 04:27 |
paramat |
nice little mod, sets the example of dropping biomes down from above, whereas my mapgen use the per-node density value to create the biomes within the single loop |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
every part of it, from the caves to the terrain, to the dirt/mud flowing |
| 04:28 |
hmmmm |
yeah I was going to add a generate_biomes() api too but the biomemanager isn't ready for that yet |
| 04:28 |
hmmmm |
and then you can remove another 30 lines of code, woohoo... |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
it's like lego blocks for mapgens |
| 04:29 |
paramat |
i love LEGO |
| 04:30 |
LazyJ |
So what would be a good waiting period between "bleeding edge" and "it's new but so far no major issues"? MT 0.4.9 held for a very long time while big improvements where made along the way. Mods like PlantLife, MoreTrees, and especially HomeDecor seem to require the latest GitHub releases of Minetest. |
| 04:30 |
paramat |
it really helps to reformat this line 'if nvals[ni] - (y - 25) / 55 > 0.5 then' into a density = densitynoise + densitygradient form |
| 04:31 |
hmmmm |
LazyJ, no idea |
| 04:31 |
hmmmm |
0.4.9 was a period of time when I was busy with a new job and all this stuff going on |
| 04:31 |
paramat |
then you can use density value to locate layers of stone, biome layers |
| 04:31 |
hmmmm |
and it's like if i'm not around and active then you get 1 new commit every 3 days |
| 04:31 |
hmmmm |
:| |
| 04:32 |
paramat |
density could be stored in a 3D table for use later by the 'place biome' part of the code |
| 04:32 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 04:32 |
hmmmm |
i'm not too focused on that thing |
| 04:32 |
hmmmm |
it's just a testbed |
| 04:33 |
paramat |
i mean generally |
| 04:34 |
paramat |
node density is very useful, currently it's just used once for 'if density > 0 place stuff' |
| 04:35 |
paramat |
this is my method for avoiding the biome material discontinuities at y=47 etc |
| 04:35 |
paramat |
plus biome layers/stone layers can be as deep as you want, unlimited |
| 04:36 |
hmmmm |
i see |
| 04:36 |
paramat |
also of course densitygradient can be manipulated to form any crazy shape of realm, as in 'flexrealm' |
| 04:38 |
paramat |
anyway nevermind just explaining my methods =) |
| 04:39 |
hmmmm |
haha it's ok |
| 04:40 |
paramat |
the sand problem in your simple mapgen i usually solve with 1 up or 1 up/1 down overgeneration |
| 04:40 |
paramat |
i wasn't expecting it, but my lua mapgens are actually more advanced than core mapgen |
| 04:41 |
hmmmm |
which one(s)? |
| 04:43 |
paramat |
riverdev |
| 04:44 |
paramat |
i know you don't like using mods but if you ever try one try that |
| 04:44 |
paramat |
but it's a slow monster |
| 04:46 |
hmmmm |
heh i'll have to check it out sometime |
| 04:59 |
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| 05:09 |
paramat |
lighting in my mapgens is confirmed as fixed. over the next few hours i'll try to fix the v5 segfault |
| 05:11 |
LittleJoe |
hey Paramat I really like your mapgens XD |
| 05:12 |
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| 05:12 |
LittleJoe |
do you think it would be possible to generate a mad of Middle Earth from The Lord of the Rings? |
| 05:12 |
LittleJoe |
map* |
| 05:12 |
LittleJoe |
or is it not that easy to just "draw"a map |
| 05:14 |
paramat |
possible but i don't have the skills to create a mapgen from a map image, others do though |
| 05:14 |
paramat |
there are 'image loaders' in the forum |
| 05:15 |
LittleJoe |
oh really? |
| 05:15 |
LittleJoe |
do it just translates from pixles into nodes then? |
| 05:15 |
paramat |
you'd probably have to create a coloured map first with a colour for each terrain/biome |
| 05:15 |
paramat |
yes |
| 05:16 |
LittleJoe |
ahh |
| 05:16 |
paramat |
a coloured image i mean |
| 05:16 |
LittleJoe |
yeah |
| 05:16 |
LittleJoe |
can you assign a different type of terrain to each color than? |
| 05:16 |
paramat |
terrain height might be difficult |
| 05:16 |
LittleJoe |
like brown=mountains and green=hills |
| 05:17 |
paramat |
yeah thats the idea |
| 05:17 |
paramat |
that would need a special mapgen mod |
| 05:17 |
paramat |
someone else can do it i'm not interested enough |
| 05:17 |
LittleJoe |
wouldn't it be cool if Minetest had it's own "custom map maker" |
| 05:17 |
LittleJoe |
ok : ) |
| 05:18 |
paramat |
you know there is a LOTT game and server? |
| 05:18 |
LittleJoe |
I might bring it up in the forums and see if anybody wants to do something like it |
| 05:18 |
LittleJoe |
yes I'm a mod on it actually : ) |
| 05:18 |
paramat |
lol |
| 05:18 |
LittleJoe |
"High King of the Elves" |
| 05:19 |
LittleJoe |
Development is taking a break till march |
| 05:19 |
LittleJoe |
but it would be very cool to have a world molded after Middle Earth |
| 05:19 |
paramat |
yes |
| 05:20 |
LittleJoe |
well thanks for your opinion : ) |
| 05:21 |
LittleJoe |
btw, if I used any one of your mapgen mods which would you suggedt? |
| 05:21 |
LittleJoe |
suggest* |
| 05:21 |
LittleJoe |
or which do you like the best : ) |
| 05:22 |
paramat |
riverdev, but it's likely to change |
| 05:23 |
paramat |
for middle earth perhaps you could load in a height map first, then a coloured biome map |
| 05:23 |
paramat |
lots of work creating those images |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
prlin noise is uncontrollable so can't be directed to create a wanted terrain |
| 05:25 |
paramat |
*perlin noise |
| 05:26 |
paramat |
my mapgens use perlin noise as do the core mapgens |
| 05:26 |
paramat |
must be off O/ |
| 05:26 |
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| 05:29 |
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| 05:37 |
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| 05:42 |
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| 05:46 |
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| 05:47 |
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| 05:48 |
WindHero |
It's been ages since I've logged on here :o |
| 05:50 |
super9mega |
this is my first time, i think its cool to have a free alternative of minecraft thats modable too, im trying to get into it |
| 05:50 |
WindHero |
welcome |
| 05:50 |
WindHero |
yeah, it's certainly worth it to get into it |
| 05:51 |
super9mega |
plus its free so anyone can play it, my problem was that my linux was out dated so i couldent get mods at first |
| 05:52 |
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| 05:52 |
WindHero |
Just try not to make the same mistake I made when I started, trying to make too complex of mods right away |
| 05:52 |
WindHero |
Ouch, yeah, Minetest definitely needs mods... |
| 05:53 |
super9mega |
yea, without mods its not even worth it |
| 05:53 |
WindHero |
On the side: does anyone here have experience with using BuildBot to compile Minetest, particularly on Windows? |
| 05:54 |
WindHero |
sfan5...? |
| 05:54 |
WindHero |
super9mega, have you tried any subgames yet? |
| 05:56 |
super9mega |
nope, i only tried mods, and failed, saw this while testing irc and thought, cool |
| 05:56 |
super9mega |
im trying to play it though |
| 05:57 |
WindHero |
hmm |
| 05:57 |
WindHero |
have you tried placing your mods directly in the minetest_game/mods directory? |
| 05:58 |
WindHero |
*/games/minetest_game/mods |
| 05:58 |
super9mega |
yea, so you use linux or windows? i have a windows upstairs, but im using linux right now |
| 05:59 |
WindHero |
windows |
| 05:59 |
WindHero |
beginning to want a linux though... |
| 05:59 |
jojoa1997 |
WindHero WINDOWS+! |
| 05:59 |
jojoa1997 |
+1 |
| 05:59 |
WindHero |
mainly because I'm having trouble compiling Minetest, but want to work on the C++ |
| 05:59 |
WindHero |
xD |
| 05:59 |
jojoa1997 |
use linux in virtualbox |
| 06:00 |
WindHero |
hmm, might be worth investigating |
| 06:00 |
jojoa1997 |
but dont erase your windows to install it on your computer |
| 06:00 |
jojoa1997 |
cause you will never get it back. or do what i do and use an external hdd |
| 06:00 |
WindHero |
heavens no, lol |
| 06:00 |
super9mega |
well try dual boot, i could walk you thrugh it if you need help, just have windows and linux on the same pc |
| 06:00 |
WindHero |
yeah, I'd use a second HDD (or SSD), or dual boot |
| 06:01 |
WindHero |
I have a guide to setting up dual boot somewhere around here... |
| 06:01 |
jojoa1997 |
yeah but you can lose stuff on a dual boot. a second drive would be better |
| 06:01 |
WindHero |
I have a drive in another computer, and it isn't seeing much use |
| 06:01 |
WindHero |
Also, laugh if you like, I can run Linux off of a Cotton Candy USB microPC |
| 06:01 |
WindHero |
but that would never last... |
| 06:02 |
super9mega |
depending what you have, i would recommend 8 or 16 gb hdd to run linux (unless you need big software) |
| 06:02 |
super9mega |
ssd* |
| 06:02 |
WindHero |
Trust me, I know my SSD's |
| 06:02 |
WindHero |
I actually replaced my last laptop's HDD with a 256 GB SSD |
| 06:03 |
jojoa1997 |
WindHero You canNOT use a hard drive |
| 06:03 |
jojoa1997 |
you must use a floppy disk |
| 06:03 |
WindHero |
ROFL |
| 06:03 |
jojoa1997 |
OR YOU WILL DIE! |
| 06:03 |
WindHero |
Have you even tried finding a floppy reader for a laptop? |
| 06:03 |
WindHero |
I really don't want to get a usb floppy reader |
| 06:04 |
super9mega |
why would you need floppy reader? |
| 06:04 |
WindHero |
(heck, the last time I used a floppy, it was to backup childish images made in MS Paint :P) |
| 06:05 |
WindHero |
(oh, and beginning Python scripts) |
| 06:05 |
super9mega |
first time my dad broke open a floppy and it was really not a hard disk my mind was blown, i dont even know why |
| 06:05 |
WindHero |
in any case, I'd love to experiment with internal mapgen C++ code |
| 06:06 |
WindHero |
\floppy\ disc. |
| 06:06 |
WindHero |
just a disc of magnetic tape... |
| 06:06 |
super9mega |
i know, but with technology it could be named after a guys last name or something |
| 06:07 |
WindHero |
lol, I suppose... |
| 06:07 |
super9mega |
edward j. floppy (: |
| 06:07 |
WindHero |
EJ floppy |
| 06:07 |
WindHero |
eject the floppy disk |
| 06:08 |
super9mega |
so do you make mods? i like to try programing but i only know html and like 2 commands in java |
| 06:08 |
WindHero |
Yup! |
| 06:08 |
WindHero |
Try checking out CaveRealms on the forum |
| 06:08 |
WindHero |
or SkyTest under subgames |
| 06:09 |
super9mega |
system.out.printline("this gets repetitive after a while"); |
| 06:09 |
WindHero |
and nice, keep learning. If you like it, you will |
| 06:09 |
WindHero |
*continue to do so |
| 06:09 |
super9mega |
<html>alright, should check them out |
| 06:09 |
super9mega |
darn it |
| 06:10 |
super9mega |
<html> <body> <p> should check them out </p> </body> </html> |
| 06:10 |
super9mega |
much better |
| 06:11 |
WindHero |
<html><body><p><span style="color: red;">Nice!</span></p></body></html> |
| 06:11 |
WindHero |
Just finished a college course on Web Technology |
| 06:11 |
WindHero |
it was so easy... :o |
| 06:12 |
WindHero |
Although I found C++ even easier, somehow |
| 06:12 |
WindHero |
less room for artistry, I suppose :P |
| 06:12 |
super9mega |
lol, im on the point of ordered list on codecadamy |
| 06:12 |
super9mega |
and that stuff |
| 06:13 |
super9mega |
i really need to get on it |
| 06:13 |
exio4 |
WindHero, take proglang in coursera |
| 06:13 |
exio4 |
it's a beautiful course |
| 06:13 |
WindHero |
xD |
| 06:14 |
WindHero |
I'll see if the university ever offers it... |
| 06:14 |
WindHero |
I'm bummed that I wasn't able to take robotics programming this semester... |
| 06:14 |
WindHero |
now I gotta wait until next spring |
| 06:15 |
super9mega |
the problem i have is dedication, its easier to find hacks then to program your own or just get bored and remeber to go and learn it |
| 06:15 |
super9mega |
like this |
| 06:15 |
super9mega |
http://www.wizardhax.com/ |
| 06:16 |
super9mega |
i have a website with hundreds or trainers, all for different games |
| 06:16 |
WindHero |
:P |
| 06:16 |
WindHero |
But if you do that, you'll never be able to make your own game! |
| 06:17 |
exio4 |
WindHero, it's on coursera |
| 06:17 |
exio4 |
%google proglang coursera |
| 06:17 |
super9mega |
if i made a game it would be like a batch game... |
| 06:17 |
WindHero |
rofl |
| 06:17 |
super9mega |
which i can make |
| 06:17 |
super9mega |
http://mrantifun.net/index.php?threads/list-of-all-trainers-on-this-forum-updated-as-of-20th-december-2014.503/ |
| 06:17 |
WindHero |
actually, I got started on game making with this: https://www.yoyogames.com/studio |
| 06:17 |
super9mega |
(if you ever need it...) |
| 06:18 |
WindHero |
well, not studio, but anyway |
| 06:18 |
super9mega |
wow, looks neat |
| 06:18 |
WindHero |
exio4: if I didn't have only a week before next semester starts, I'd totally learn it |
| 06:19 |
WindHero |
but Discrete Math, Calculus, and C++ are gonna push it right out of my head if I start now |
| 06:19 |
exio4 |
C++ is crap, calculus isn't that difficult, and discrete math is amazing enough to have it easy |
| 06:19 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Optionally specify propogateSunlight area in calcLighting (fixes V5 segfault) aa88340 http://git.io/5SKDgQ (2015-01-05T01:18:53-05:00) |
| 06:19 |
exio4 |
so you should have plently of time |
| 06:19 |
exio4 |
btw, may I join my bot for a sec? |
| 06:20 |
WindHero |
Oh, forgot to mention my Writing Intensive course. |
| 06:20 |
exio4 |
wat |
| 06:20 |
exio4 |
https://www.coursera.org/course/proglang -- this one was amazing |
| 06:20 |
WindHero |
second semester freshman, already taking a WI course :P |
| 06:20 |
WindHero |
just a sec... |
| 06:21 |
super9mega |
yea, but i have a advantage! im 14 and im already starting, if i keep going im going to be so good at it, im already taking my strata later this year (only freshmen going to take it) |
| 06:21 |
WindHero |
bookmarked |
| 06:21 |
exio4 |
you should touch functional programming now |
| 06:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Optionally specify propagateSunlight area in calcLighting 7289d61 http://git.io/IbFzOg (2015-01-05T01:20:36-05:00) |
| 06:21 |
WindHero |
btw... I've been coding for 5 years |
| 06:21 |
Cylus |
Yeah, better stick with dysfunctional programming. |
| 06:22 |
exio4 |
I took proglang just a bit before my 16th birthday |
| 06:22 |
WindHero |
I took Python and Visual Basic when I was 13 |
| 06:22 |
super9mega |
ill look into it |
| 06:22 |
exio4 |
WindHero, how old are you, and in which languages? |
| 06:22 |
exio4 |
proglang was the first formal course I ever did |
| 06:22 |
WindHero |
18 |
| 06:22 |
exio4 |
I learnt VB 6 and Pascal (self-taught) when I was in my 10s |
| 06:23 |
WindHero |
Python, Visual Basic, C#, JavaScript, HTML, C++, Lua, CSS |
| 06:23 |
WindHero |
I know I'm missing something... |
| 06:23 |
WindHero |
UnityScript |
| 06:23 |
exio4 |
so, mostly languages that are either mainstream or crap or lua, which is actually nice |
| 06:24 |
exio4 |
you should touch some language with a decent type system |
| 06:24 |
WindHero |
I took those first two when I was 13, in an accredited high school course, and got 100 on every test. |
| 06:24 |
exio4 |
you'll love it probbly |
| 06:24 |
WindHero |
Like I said, I definitely will look into it |
| 06:24 |
exio4 |
you should haskell the next year! |
| 06:24 |
exio4 |
also, I am gonna be 18 soon(tm) |
| 06:25 |
WindHero |
Also, I recently did a research paper on the history of programming |
| 06:25 |
super9mega |
none of those are really bad... they all have uses |
| 06:25 |
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| 06:25 |
exio4 |
super9mega, those are useful as a chainsaw while trying to kill mosquitos |
| 06:25 |
WindHero |
Ever heard of Wyvern? |
| 06:25 |
exio4 |
I don't think so |
| 06:25 |
WindHero |
It's new, and Open Source |
| 06:26 |
exio4 |
"new" |
| 06:26 |
exio4 |
new as 90s? |
| 06:26 |
WindHero |
if it pans out, it could theoretically replace current web page writing practice |
| 06:26 |
WindHero |
New as in last 5 years |
| 06:26 |
exio4 |
ah] |
| 06:26 |
WindHero |
still unfinished |
| 06:26 |
WindHero |
CMU is behind it |
| 06:27 |
exio4 |
I would like to see dependant types in mainstream languages |
| 06:27 |
exio4 |
it'd be pretty cool |
| 06:27 |
exio4 |
maybe in 40 years |
| 06:27 |
super9mega |
so exio4 has no respect for the great original languages, got it |
| 06:27 |
WindHero |
and dependant types are useful... why? |
| 06:27 |
WindHero |
rofl |
| 06:28 |
exio4 |
super9mega, great original languages? most mainstream languages in that list aren't new, they didn't add anything new to the world |
| 06:28 |
WindHero |
and super9mega, the original languages are, like, AutoCode, Fortran, Lisp, Cobol... |
| 06:28 |
WindHero |
Simula67 |
| 06:29 |
WindHero |
^that was REALLY important |
| 06:29 |
WindHero |
object oriented programming as we know it was born from that |
| 06:29 |
jojoa1997 |
if you want the great original language it is called math |
| 06:29 |
WindHero |
true dat |
| 06:29 |
WindHero |
even more so, binary math |
| 06:29 |
exio4 |
Visual Basic added a new language that nobody wants to touch, Python isn't even a good toy language, C# is a bad joke from Microsoft, JS isn't even that good, it does pretty well for being in a community so shitty like web, HTML is a programming language as my bike is a rocket |
| 06:29 |
exio4 |
no WindHero, λ calculus |
| 06:30 |
WindHero |
:O |
| 06:30 |
WindHero |
fancy xD |
| 06:30 |
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| 06:30 |
exio4 |
#calc (\x -> x) 2 |
| 06:30 |
nxbot |
2.0 |
| 06:30 |
kaeza |
>Python isn't even a good toy language |
| 06:30 |
kaeza |
gg |
| 06:30 |
exio4 |
#calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1)) |
| 06:30 |
nxbot |
Error :"stdin" (line 1, column 55):unexpected end of inputexpecting atom, operator or ")" |
| 06:31 |
exio4 |
#calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1))) |
| 06:31 |
nxbot |
<fun> [\n -> if ((n < 1.0)) then (1.0) else ((n * (fact (n - 1.0))))] |
| 06:31 |
WindHero |
And yeah, HTML is markup, not a programming language |
| 06:31 |
exio4 |
#calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1))) 20 |
| 06:31 |
nxbot |
2.43290200817664e18 |
| 06:31 |
exio4 |
#calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1))) 7 |
| 06:31 |
nxbot |
5040.0 |
| 06:31 |
exio4 |
turing completeness ^ |
| 06:31 |
WindHero |
noice |
| 06:31 |
exio4 |
#calc fix |
| 06:31 |
nxbot |
<fun> [\f -> ((\x -> (f (x x))) (\x -> (f (x x))))] |
| 06:31 |
WindHero |
and your syntax is heartbreaking |
| 06:31 |
super9mega |
i have to go, nice talking to you all! |
| 06:31 |
exio4 |
it's haskellish syntax |
| 06:32 |
WindHero |
kk, bye! |
| 06:32 |
exio4 |
lambda-calculus is from the 30s |
| 06:32 |
exio4 |
bye super9mega |
| 06:32 |
super9mega |
bye |
| 06:32 |
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| 06:32 |
WindHero |
mary had a little lambda? |
| 06:32 |
exio4 |
lisp is from the 60s, ML is from the 80s |
| 06:32 |
exio4 |
in 2015, we are still using Java, with a type system that is retarded |
| 06:32 |
WindHero |
AutoCode is from the 50's |
| 06:32 |
exio4 |
if this isn't a fucking joke, I don't know what it is |
| 06:33 |
WindHero |
Oh, I technically know Java, I've just never used it |
| 06:33 |
exio4 |
I'll avoid Java as much as I can |
| 06:33 |
WindHero |
How about Boo? |
| 06:33 |
exio4 |
boo? |
| 06:34 |
WindHero |
the scripting language |
| 06:34 |
exio4 |
haven't heard of it |
| 06:34 |
WindHero |
I've never used it, but I've heard of it |
| 06:34 |
exio4 |
oh |
| 06:34 |
WindHero |
can be used to script Unity3D games |
| 06:34 |
exio4 |
objects |
| 06:35 |
exio4 |
how cool would be the programming language field without the modern version of OOP |
| 06:35 |
WindHero |
what would you have instead? |
| 06:35 |
exio4 |
Some features of note include type inference, generators, multimethods, optional duck typing, macros, true closures, currying, and first-class functions. Boo has been actively developed since 2003. |
| 06:35 |
exio4 |
:O |
| 06:35 |
exio4 |
sounds pretty cool |
| 06:36 |
exio4 |
WindHero, functional programming with records |
| 06:36 |
WindHero |
records? |
| 06:36 |
exio4 |
and subtyping+parametric polymorphism |
| 06:36 |
exio4 |
WindHero, uhh, structs? |
| 06:36 |
exio4 |
the closest I can think of |
| 06:37 |
WindHero |
well, become a computer engineer, and make the ideal language |
| 06:37 |
exio4 |
there isn't such a thing as the ideal language |
| 06:37 |
WindHero |
structs, eh? C# and C++ have them |
| 06:37 |
WindHero |
bingo |
| 06:37 |
exio4 |
it's all about the tradeoffs |
| 06:37 |
WindHero |
we use what we have, and use the best tools for the specific jobs |
| 06:37 |
exio4 |
OOP is "we'll tradeoff everything for having enterprise code" |
| 06:37 |
exio4 |
WindHero, structs arent quite what I want |
| 06:37 |
WindHero |
lol, no |
| 06:38 |
WindHero |
someone's looking at things in monochrome |
| 06:38 |
exio4 |
product and sum types |
| 06:38 |
exio4 |
WindHero, give me two places where OOP is actually consise, and isn't GUI |
| 06:38 |
WindHero |
video game objects |
| 06:39 |
WindHero |
subclasses of enemies, for example |
| 06:39 |
WindHero |
and... |
| 06:39 |
exio4 |
functional interfaces do that pretty well, so do ADTs, and they are more consise |
| 06:39 |
WindHero |
:P |
| 06:40 |
WindHero |
Call me when Unity3D or Unreal Engine supports ProgLang then... |
| 06:40 |
exio4 |
OO decomposition in OOP languages is crap, it's basically a shitty version of parametric polymorphic |
| 06:40 |
exio4 |
WindHero, that argument is just "because it's what we have got, it must be cool", or what? |
| 06:40 |
WindHero |
so, what's the downside to parametric polymorphic? |
| 06:41 |
exio4 |
it is pretty good |
| 06:41 |
exio4 |
that is what you call generics in the oo land |
| 06:41 |
WindHero |
and I'm not saying that I'm denying your argument, I'm just saying that I can't do much with the other language type until my line of work supports it |
| 06:41 |
exio4 |
yes, I know |
| 06:42 |
exio4 |
my argument is that OO is like a cancer |
| 06:42 |
WindHero |
Trust me, i have bones to pick with OO |
| 06:42 |
WindHero |
still gets the job done, however |
| 06:42 |
WindHero |
just not... elegantly |
| 06:43 |
WindHero |
(still, I try darn hard to code my C++ as elegantly as I can...) |
| 06:43 |
exio4 |
OOP is basically turing tarpit as its finest |
| 06:43 |
exio4 |
you can code elegantly WindHero |
| 06:43 |
WindHero |
(And my teacher gave extra credit points for the effort) |
| 06:43 |
exio4 |
you just need to implement a scheme interpreter |
| 06:43 |
exio4 |
I don't really give a shit about credits |
| 06:44 |
WindHero |
scheme interpreter? |
| 06:45 |
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| 06:45 |
exio4 |
programming with objects is like hunting sharks with a spoon |
| 06:45 |
WindHero |
watashi wa obaachiibaa desu. |
| 06:45 |
exio4 |
WindHero, scheme = programming language? |
| 06:45 |
WindHero |
oh |
| 06:45 |
exio4 |
it's a functional version of lisp |
| 06:45 |
WindHero |
come to Hawaii, let's shark hunt with spoons together |
| 06:46 |
exio4 |
OO is the enterprise version of a turing tarpit |
| 06:46 |
exio4 |
it's a good way for modeling 0.0001% things in the world |
| 06:46 |
exio4 |
sadly, that 0.0001% is where it isn't used |
| 06:47 |
WindHero |
Hence, the root of this is your disdain for enterprises |
| 06:47 |
exio4 |
no |
| 06:48 |
exio4 |
I like some parts of OOP, which can be basically be trivially implemented in any language with first-order functions and real closures |
| 06:48 |
exio4 |
closures are lovely |
| 06:48 |
WindHero |
indeed |
| 06:49 |
WindHero |
Have you ever tried programming with coroutines? |
| 06:49 |
exio4 |
you mean green threads, or what? |
| 06:49 |
exio4 |
I have used Haskell+GHC, for what it's worth :D |
| 06:49 |
WindHero |
routines that can start and stop |
| 06:50 |
kahrl |
we had to code a game in scheme (actually a purely functional subset of it) in one of the classes I went to |
| 06:50 |
exio4 |
I envy you :( |
| 06:50 |
kahrl |
copying the entire game state every game tick (because everything is immutable) got ugly very quick |
| 06:50 |
kahrl |
but if you like it... |
| 06:50 |
WindHero |
say, when something updates 60 times per second, but you want something to operate along side it, like a gradual shift in alpha |
| 06:50 |
exio4 |
the idea is reducing the state to something very small |
| 06:51 |
exio4 |
WindHero, you basically talk about concurrency as if it was something very crazy |
| 06:51 |
exio4 |
kahrl, and also, monad transformers! |
| 06:51 |
WindHero |
it can be in 3D game programming :P |
| 06:51 |
kahrl |
we didn't know any category theory, so no monads |
| 06:51 |
WindHero |
especially in C# |
| 06:51 |
WindHero |
one of my bones to pick |
| 06:51 |
exio4 |
Except + State + Reader + IO |
| 06:52 |
exio4 |
I don't know category theory kahrl |
| 06:52 |
exio4 |
it's in my todo list though |
| 06:52 |
* exio4 |
looks at the window "Allufi's Algebra: Chapter 0" in his taskbar |
| 06:53 |
WindHero |
I've been having complexity of algorithms drilled into my head over the last four months... |
| 06:53 |
exio4 |
big O notation? |
| 06:53 |
WindHero |
ja |
| 06:54 |
WindHero |
and big Theta |
| 06:54 |
exio4 |
I see |
| 06:54 |
exio4 |
what stuff? |
| 06:54 |
WindHero |
sorting algorithms, search algorithms, RSA encryption... |
| 06:55 |
WindHero |
Chinese Remainder Theorem |
| 06:55 |
exio4 |
cool |
| 06:55 |
WindHero |
20 digit primes... lots of talk about them, but thankfully no practice in finding them |
| 06:56 |
WindHero |
anyways, I gotta go now |
| 06:56 |
WindHero |
nice talking! |
| 06:56 |
exio4 |
see ya |
| 06:56 |
WindHero |
cya |
| 06:58 |
exio4 |
kahrl, having implicit & explicit state at the same time allows for fun stuff |
| 06:58 |
exio4 |
also, actions being first-class is also pretty cool! |
| 06:58 |
exio4 |
let x = y in x >> x is the same as y >> y |
| 07:02 |
kahrl |
nice |
| 07:02 |
chchjesus |
let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 |
| 07:03 |
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| 07:03 |
exio4 |
#calc let plus = \x -> \y -> if (x==2) then (if (y==2) then 5 else x+y) else x+y in plus 2 2 |
| 07:03 |
nxbot |
Error :"stdin" (line 1, column 31):unexpected '='expecting operator |
| 07:04 |
exio4 |
#calc let plus = (\x -> \y -> if (x==2) then (if (y==2) then 5 else (x+y)) else (x+y)) in plus 2 2 |
| 07:04 |
nxbot |
Error :"stdin" (line 1, column 32):unexpected '='expecting operator |
| 07:04 |
exio4 |
:( |
| 07:04 |
exio4 |
#calc let plus = (\x -> \y -> if (x=2) then (if (y=2) then 5 else (x+y)) else (x+y)) in plus 2 2 |
| 07:04 |
nxbot |
5.0 |
| 07:04 |
exio4 |
there |
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Jordach |
!tell hmmmm you're patch to fig segfaults appears to be working |
| 07:29 |
MinetestBot |
Jordach: I'll pass that on when hmmmm is around |
| 07:42 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Shorten ManualMapVoxelManipulator to MMVManip 2d849b0 http://git.io/8158Sg (2015-01-05T02:42:27-05:00) |
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ThatGraemeGuy |
wooo, fig all the bugs |
| 07:47 |
* ThatGraemeGuy |
runs |
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kaeza |
bug all the figs! |
| 07:52 |
kaeza |
also >you're >YOU'RE |
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kaeza |
son, I am disappoint |
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meow |
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|
Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, the official channel of Minetest | Happy new year | Version: 0.4.11 (2014-12-26) | Responses may take a while, so be patient. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ |
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redstonecraftpl |
Hi |
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MinetestBot |
[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Prevent client crashing if an NDT_AIRLIKE node is dropped beb6b3e http://git.io/XX08dw (2015-01-05T22:55:02+10:00) |
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luizrpgluiz |
hi |
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shadowzone |
Yo! |
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crazyR |
what can cause chat commands to fail to work without an error? anyone got any ideas |
| 16:24 |
Calinou |
crazyR, the chatplus mod. |
| 16:24 |
Calinou |
or other chat handlers |
| 16:24 |
Calinou |
remove these mods |
| 16:24 |
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Yellowberry |
X |
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crazyR |
i dont have these mods although you have game me an idea as to what to look for. |
| 16:25 |
Yellowberry |
What is going on? |
| 16:27 |
Calinou |
what subgame do you use, crazyR, which Minetest version do you use? |
| 16:29 |
crazyR |
its a modified version of minetest_game |
| 16:29 |
crazyR |
under developement. |
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Yellowberry |
2015 resolution: to simply write 2015 instead of 2014 |
| 16:44 |
Yellowberry |
oh |
| 16:44 |
Yellowberry |
I need to update minetest! |
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Calinou |
update yourself to v2015 |
| 16:45 |
Yellowberry |
hi Krock |
| 16:45 |
exio4 |
oh look, it's a Yellowberry |
| 16:46 |
Yellowberry |
yeah |
| 16:46 |
Krock |
hi |
| 16:46 |
Yellowberry |
I was magnetically attracted to my seat during winter break playing stuff like OpenSpades |
| 16:46 |
Yellowberry |
if i'm not mistaken |
| 16:47 |
Yellowberry |
the new version was released the day I got off for break |
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Krock |
gonna love this commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/bdcf03 hashtag lua mpagen |
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mihaly |
howdy |
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kaeza |
hi |
| 18:21 |
Yellowbanana |
hihihihi |
| 18:21 |
exio4 |
hai |
| 18:21 |
mihaly |
hello - i'm curious about runtime errors - sometimes I get "can't write new conf" file error - any help? |
| 18:22 |
mihaly |
from the mobf - not minetest itself? |
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mihaly |
its not actually a runtime, more of a server complint |
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Sokomine |
mihaly: best talk to sapier about it. he seems to be online |
| 18:32 |
mihaly |
am in the presence of greatness, I deeply bow and say thanks :) |
| 18:34 |
Jordach |
Sokomine, the world is alive |
| 18:34 |
Jordach |
hmmmm managed to fix it |
| 18:44 |
mihaly |
its more of a mobf problem, it seems, not actually minetest, I don't know whether it's a permissions problem on win8 |
| 18:45 |
mihaly |
but allowing write access (modify) for users didn't stop the error msg from appearing |
| 18:46 |
twoelk|2 |
mihaly: from what directory are you running Minetest? |
| 18:46 |
mihaly |
just regular C:\games |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
don't install in C:\Program Files |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
C:\Games should be OK |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
but try your desktop to be sure |
| 18:47 |
twoelk |
^ |
| 18:47 |
mihaly |
yeah, I didn't want to run it from anywhere else |
| 18:47 |
mihaly |
as i say, it seems more to be wih the mobf not the server |
| 18:48 |
mihaly |
maybe I should be asking in a differrnt forum? |
| 18:48 |
Calinou |
ask in the MOBF thread? |
| 18:48 |
Calinou |
provide logs |
| 18:49 |
twoelk |
sapier is just discussing android problems over at minetest-dev, so he is online although somewhat occupied |
| 18:49 |
mihaly |
mmmm - yeah, thats what I was thinking. just wanted to start here ,,,, suggests for actual channel?? |
| 18:49 |
Jordach |
mihaly, you won't be able to talk in there |
| 18:49 |
Jordach |
webchat clients are perma muted |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
there is no specific channel |
| 18:50 |
mihaly |
so will mozilla IRC be banned as well? |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
the qwebIRC clients are banned |
| 18:51 |
Krock |
use a real IRC client, what's wrong with it? |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
other web IRC clients are not necessarily banned |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
in doubt, get HexChat <http://hexchat.github.io> and connect |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
Krock, some people can't or don't want to install software just for 1 channel |
| 18:51 |
Jordach |
mihaly, if you're connected via webchat.freenode.net you're not going in to talk |
| 18:51 |
mihaly |
actually I am not sure Im asking the right question anyway. I kind of just wanted to give thanks to those who provide such great game |
| 18:51 |
Krock |
Calinou, I'm on 2 servers, 4 channels in total so it can be useful somewhen :) |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
5 networks, 41 channels here |
| 18:52 |
mihaly |
I had an actual chat thingy but I just am used to chatzilla - whats wrong with that? |
| 18:52 |
Krock |
8) |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
ChatZilla should work |
| 18:52 |
Jordach |
Used to be 5 networks, before one changed the IP and i never bothered to fix it |
| 18:53 |
mihaly |
so, umm, which channel would it be? Isit on freenode? |
| 18:53 |
Krock |
chat.freenode.net is the server here |
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Jordach |
yes #minetest-dev |
| 18:53 |
mihaly |
ahh! Yes, Dev of course. thasn kyou |
| 18:53 |
mihaly |
still be here. |
| 18:54 |
mihaly |
log outof qweb, catch you flipside, yeah? Cool |
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Selah |
I got Linux working in a VM |
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| 21:08 |
Yellowbanana |
my problem with HexChat is everyone is scared of it because it's shareware |
| 21:08 |
Yellowbanana |
:/ |
| 21:09 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 21:09 |
sfan5 |
hexchat isn't shareware |
| 21:09 |
sfan5 |
xchat is shareware |
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crazyR |
is it possible to do a colored label on a formspec? |
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STHGOM |
how do you call get_player_control()? |
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carjack |
good afternoon |
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carjack |
tfw proller is a freeminer dev |
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carjack |
I get more than 60fps with my gtx750 ti |
| 23:29 |
carjack |
it is pleasing |
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