Time Nick Message
02:05 tb01110100 hello all, new to minetest. What is a mapgen, and why is it not auto-set to the (seemingly) newest version?
02:13 rickmcfarley I believe it is how the world is generated and v7 is still in development...i think
02:16 tb01110100 dear lord, how deep does this thing go?
02:19 exio4 tb01110100, mapgen is the name for the "part" of the engine/game that generates the map, and the "stable" one is the v6, v7 is basically "in dev and may break at any moment", singlenode is for mods (it's basically "leave the mapgen to mods")
02:19 tb01110100 v5?
02:19 exio4 v5 is an old mapgen "taken back to life", no idea how stable it is
02:19 exio4 about deep, it goes to -32k~
02:20 exio4 -32000 to +32000
02:20 exio4 in all sides
02:25 LazyJ What setting do I need to change to get mapgen water and lava sources to produce their flowing versions?
02:26 LazyJ When I place a liquid source, they start flowing immediately but the sources created by the mapgen (v6) are static until I place a node near them.
02:45 ShadowNinja LazyJ: Call vm:update_liquids() on all chunks maybe? But they probably should update. This may be a bug related to the recent liquid update queue changes.
02:46 marktraceur I'm having to actually think about extra storage for iron blocks. Nuclear reactors and quarries are amazing.
02:46 LazyJ I've noticed it for over a month; just assumed I didn't have a setting right.
02:46 marktraceur That is all.
02:46 ShadowNinja tb01110100: Use v6 of you care about stability. v7 is incomplete and v5 is experimental.
02:47 ShadowNinja if*
02:48 LazyJ Last year there was a similar problem with water sources not appearing to flow in the texture pack I use (64px). VanessaE and karhl (I think it was karhl) suggested increasing the liquid_loop to 100000, which worked and is now the default.
02:49 LazyJ I tried that and the liquid_update - no joys and it is occurring in the default texture pack and affects lava_sources.
02:49 LazyJ In later stages of MT 0.4.10 I would wait, maybe 20-30 seconds, and then the lava would flow.
02:50 LazyJ But the 2015_01_04 Github release (as of 2hrs ago) has static liquid sources.
02:51 LazyJ *mapgen* created liquid sources. Placed liquid sources flow as they should.
02:52 LazyJ My "test" is to create a new, vanilla, test world and fly down through the ground till I find a lava lake and then I hover by the lava sources, waiting for them to start flowing.
02:53 LazyJ I made a fresh cup of coffee and the lava still hadn't begun to flow.
02:53 LazyJ Then I flew up to the surface and skimmed for a dungeon in the water. When I found one, it was an open-topped dungeon *under* water but the water wasn't flowing into the dungeon.
02:54 LazyJ Unfortunately I don't have any technical details to help pin-point the problem.
03:04 Sokomine hi
03:04 LazyJ o/
03:04 Sokomine do you know of any other significant mods that add trees? 3 from normal mapgen, moretrees, mg, realtest, ethereal, forest, ...?
03:05 LazyJ Bas080 had a mini-version of MoreTrees called "Trees".
03:05 Sokomine ah, that's right. i wanted to check that one out as well. i liked it a lot and used it in singleplayer. i'm not sure if it came with its own wood
03:06 Sokomine the villages look best if the wood is randomly exchanged with other wood types
03:06 LazyJ iirc, it uses some of MoreTrees nodes and adds a few of it's own.
03:06 LazyJ Checking my notes for URLs...
03:07 Sokomine don't worry
03:07 LazyJ https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5713
03:07 Sokomine i have it bookmarked and even opened in a tab iirc
03:07 LazyJ https://github.com/bas080/trees
03:10 Sokomine ah. found it. thanks :-)
03:11 LazyJ You know those large shadows that appear on a Minetest landscape for no visible reason?... I'm getting grid-like version in paramat's Watershed mapgen.
03:12 LazyJ This didn't happen a few days ago.
03:12 LazyJ The only thing that has changed in that time is the MT engine.
03:12 LazyJ *But* I haven't seen this shadow grid appear in mapgen v6.
03:13 LazyJ Is this something to post an issue on Watershed's GitHub or MT engines, do you reckon?
03:18 Sokomine hmm. you ought to talk to paramat about these
03:19 Sokomine i do get a lot of shadows as well when creating the villages. the shadows disappear when the mapchunks above and/or next to the current chunk are loaded
03:21 LazyJ Link to the screenshot for the curious:
03:21 LazyJ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/shadow_grid_2015_01_04_mt0411_watershed.png
03:22 Brains Facedirs should only be 0 - 23, correct?
03:24 Sokomine that's right
03:29 Brains That explains the segfault then.
03:48 LazyJ So do error messages like these mean trouble for old worlds?:
03:48 LazyJ 19:47:50: ERROR[main]: Resolver: Failed to resolve node name 'mapgen_water_source'.
03:48 LazyJ 19:47:50: ERROR[main]: Resolver: Failed to resolve node name 'mapgen_water_source'.
03:49 hmmmm that means it couldn't find a node with an alias or a name of "mapgen_water_source" which it needs
03:49 hmmmm no worries if you're not using a map generation algorithm that utilizes biomes
03:50 hmmmm you can ignore that
03:50 LazyJ Those came from old mapgen v6 worlds.
03:50 hmmmm yup
03:50 hmmmm like i said, you can ignore that
03:50 LazyJ Ok. Thanks.
03:50 hmmmm your game should probably define that alias somewhere though.
03:50 LazyJ "minetest_game"
03:51 LazyJ The server world is even older than these (still mapgen v6 and minetest_game from the MT 0.4.5 days).
03:51 hmmmm weird, should be there.
03:52 LazyJ I haven't updated the server (still MT 0.4.10), so I can't be sure on that.
03:53 LazyJ But those errors came from a couple of my old singleplayer worlds that I keep up.
03:54 LittleJoe ok so I feel really stupid lol
03:54 LittleJoe I increased the GUI scale factor all the way and I cannot access the sliding bar now...
03:55 tb01110100 can fov be changed?
03:55 LittleJoe no it's in the menu
03:55 LazyJ LittleJoe, add: gui_scaling = 1.0 to your minetest.conf and that will return it to the default.
03:56 LittleJoe ok
03:57 LittleJoe thx LazyJ I didn't know where to start looking for the gui scale value :
03:57 LazyJ yw ;)
03:57 LazyJ minetest.conf.example has some clues.
03:57 LittleJoe ok : )
03:57 LazyJ Mostly guess work what the stuff does, but at least it's someplace to start.
04:00 LazyJ Anyway, hmmmm, these old singleplayer worlds are run in the latest MT engine and minetest_game from GitHub.
04:02 LazyJ I see a new commit related to NodeResolver: bdcf03a. Maybe that is the remedy.
04:03 hmmmm the remedy...?
04:03 LazyJ I compiled the latest from GitHub last night - these errors weren't there.
04:03 LazyJ Then I compiled MT again about an hour ago - the errors appeared.
04:04 hmmmm well, i don't get those errors at all
04:04 hmmmm sounds to me like you might've done something with your mods that erased the mapgen_water_source alias
04:05 LazyJ Nope. Straight stuff with these old worlds (pre-date my Lua learning).
04:05 hmmmm well, no idea.
04:05 LazyJ Ok.
04:06 LazyJ I'm going to download and compile MT again with the commits from about 20 minutes ago; see what has changed or not.
04:14 paramat LazyJ, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1727#issuecomment-68627007
04:15 paramat due to a recent commit my use of vm:set_lighting({day=0, night=0}) now creates bugs
04:15 hmmmm no, i fixed that
04:16 LazyJ The work-around is to use WorldEdit to "//replace air air"
04:16 paramat oh 2 mins ago
04:17 paramat will test
04:17 hmmmm > use bleeding-edge development version of software
04:17 hmmmm > upset when something doesn't work
04:17 hmmmm >mfw
04:17 paramat lol you ninja'd me
04:18 LazyJ I'm not upset. I know this stuff is bleeding edge, up-to-the-minute. Just reporting what I've come across.
04:20 paramat i'm still going to change all my mods to use flags="nolight" since that makes more sense. after all i have to change 2D noisemap z size also
04:22 hmmmm i developed that LuaVoxelManip sample mapgen a little bit further and i use it for testing various changes
04:22 hmmmm i was going to sorta release it as a mapgen-related-modding best practices thing but it's got a problem
04:23 hmmmm http://fpaste.org/165649/31788142/
04:24 hmmmm at mapblock boundaries, it'll make a floor of sand inside of the caves
04:26 hmmmm lol, that mapgen is so simple and it produces better results than mapgen v6. all it needs is lava
04:26 paramat yeah good old 3D noise density-based mapgen
04:27 hmmmm it's so stupidly simple though
04:27 paramat nice little mod, sets the example of dropping biomes down from above, whereas my mapgen use the per-node density value to create the biomes within the single loop
04:27 hmmmm every part of it, from the caves to the terrain, to the dirt/mud flowing
04:28 hmmmm yeah I was going to add a generate_biomes() api too but the biomemanager isn't ready for that yet
04:28 hmmmm and then you can remove another 30 lines of code, woohoo...
04:29 hmmmm it's like lego blocks for mapgens
04:29 paramat i love LEGO
04:30 LazyJ So what would be a good waiting period between "bleeding edge" and "it's new but so far no major issues"? MT 0.4.9 held for a very long time while big improvements where made along the way. Mods like PlantLife, MoreTrees, and especially HomeDecor seem to require the latest GitHub releases of Minetest.
04:30 paramat it really helps to reformat this line 'if nvals[ni] - (y - 25) / 55 > 0.5 then' into a density = densitynoise + densitygradient form
04:31 hmmmm LazyJ, no idea
04:31 hmmmm 0.4.9 was a period of time when I was busy with a new job and all this stuff going on
04:31 paramat then you can use density value to locate layers of stone, biome layers
04:31 hmmmm and it's like if i'm not around and active then you get 1 new commit every 3 days
04:31 hmmmm :|
04:32 paramat density could be stored in a 3D table for use later by the 'place biome' part of the code
04:32 hmmmm well
04:32 hmmmm i'm not too focused on that thing
04:32 hmmmm it's just a testbed
04:33 paramat i mean generally
04:34 paramat node density is very useful, currently it's just used once for 'if density > 0 place stuff'
04:35 paramat this is my method for avoiding the biome material discontinuities at y=47 etc
04:35 paramat plus biome layers/stone layers can be as deep as you want, unlimited
04:36 hmmmm i see
04:36 paramat also of course densitygradient can be manipulated to form any crazy shape of realm, as in 'flexrealm'
04:38 paramat anyway nevermind just explaining my methods =)
04:39 hmmmm haha it's ok
04:40 paramat the sand problem in your simple mapgen i usually solve with 1 up or 1 up/1 down overgeneration
04:40 paramat i wasn't expecting it, but my lua mapgens are actually more advanced than core mapgen
04:41 hmmmm which one(s)?
04:43 paramat riverdev
04:44 paramat i know you don't like using mods but if you ever try one try that
04:44 paramat but it's a slow monster
04:46 hmmmm heh i'll have to check it out sometime
05:09 paramat lighting in my mapgens is confirmed as fixed. over the next few hours i'll try to fix the v5 segfault
05:11 LittleJoe hey Paramat I really like your mapgens XD
05:12 LittleJoe do you think it would be possible to generate a mad of Middle Earth from The Lord of the Rings?
05:12 LittleJoe map*
05:12 LittleJoe or is it not that easy to just "draw"a map
05:14 paramat possible but i don't have the skills to create a mapgen from a map image, others do though
05:14 paramat there are 'image loaders' in the forum
05:15 LittleJoe oh really?
05:15 LittleJoe do it just translates from pixles into nodes then?
05:15 paramat you'd probably have to create a coloured map first with a colour for each terrain/biome
05:15 paramat yes
05:16 LittleJoe ahh
05:16 paramat a coloured image i mean
05:16 LittleJoe yeah
05:16 LittleJoe can you assign a different type of terrain to each color than?
05:16 paramat terrain height might be difficult
05:16 LittleJoe like brown=mountains and green=hills
05:17 paramat yeah thats the idea
05:17 paramat that would need a special mapgen mod
05:17 paramat someone else can do it i'm not interested enough
05:17 LittleJoe wouldn't it be cool if Minetest had it's own "custom map maker"
05:17 LittleJoe ok : )
05:18 paramat you know there is a LOTT game and server?
05:18 LittleJoe I might bring it up in the forums and see if anybody wants to do something like it
05:18 LittleJoe yes I'm a mod on it actually : )
05:18 paramat lol
05:18 LittleJoe "High King of the Elves"
05:19 LittleJoe Development is taking a break till march
05:19 LittleJoe but it would be very cool to have a world molded after Middle Earth
05:19 paramat yes
05:20 LittleJoe well thanks for your opinion : )
05:21 LittleJoe btw, if I used any one of your mapgen mods which would you suggedt?
05:21 LittleJoe suggest*
05:21 LittleJoe or which do you like the best : )
05:22 paramat riverdev, but it's likely to change
05:23 paramat for middle earth perhaps you could load in a height map first, then a coloured biome map
05:23 paramat lots of work creating those images
05:25 paramat prlin noise is uncontrollable so can't be directed to create a wanted terrain
05:25 paramat *perlin noise
05:26 paramat my mapgens use perlin noise as do the core mapgens
05:26 paramat must be off O/
05:48 WindHero It's been ages since I've logged on here :o
05:50 super9mega this is my first time, i think its cool to have a free alternative of minecraft thats modable too, im trying to get into it
05:50 WindHero welcome
05:50 WindHero yeah, it's certainly worth it to get into it
05:51 super9mega plus its free so anyone can play it, my problem was that my linux was out dated so i couldent get mods at first
05:52 WindHero Just try not to make the same mistake I made when I started, trying to make too complex of mods right away
05:52 WindHero Ouch, yeah, Minetest definitely needs mods...
05:53 super9mega yea, without mods its not even worth it
05:53 WindHero On the side: does anyone here have experience with using BuildBot to compile Minetest, particularly on Windows?
05:54 WindHero sfan5...?
05:54 WindHero super9mega, have you tried any subgames yet?
05:56 super9mega nope, i only tried mods, and failed, saw this while testing irc and thought, cool
05:56 super9mega im trying to play it though
05:57 WindHero hmm
05:57 WindHero have you tried placing your mods directly in the minetest_game/mods directory?
05:58 WindHero */games/minetest_game/mods
05:58 super9mega yea, so you use linux or windows? i have a windows upstairs, but im using linux right now
05:59 WindHero windows
05:59 WindHero beginning to want a linux though...
05:59 jojoa1997 WindHero WINDOWS+!
05:59 jojoa1997 +1
05:59 WindHero mainly because I'm having trouble compiling Minetest, but want to work on the C++
05:59 WindHero xD
05:59 jojoa1997 use linux in virtualbox
06:00 WindHero hmm, might be worth investigating
06:00 jojoa1997 but dont erase your windows to install it on your computer
06:00 jojoa1997 cause you will never get it back. or do what i do and use an external hdd
06:00 WindHero heavens no, lol
06:00 super9mega well try dual boot, i could walk you thrugh it if you need help, just have windows and linux on the same pc
06:00 WindHero yeah, I'd use a second HDD (or SSD), or dual boot
06:01 WindHero I have a guide to setting up dual boot somewhere around here...
06:01 jojoa1997 yeah but you can lose stuff on a dual boot. a second drive would be better
06:01 WindHero I have a drive in another computer, and it isn't seeing much use
06:01 WindHero Also, laugh if you like, I can run Linux off of a Cotton Candy USB microPC
06:01 WindHero but that would never last...
06:02 super9mega depending what you have, i would recommend 8 or 16 gb hdd to run linux (unless you need big software)
06:02 super9mega ssd*
06:02 WindHero Trust me, I know my SSD's
06:02 WindHero I actually replaced my last laptop's HDD with a 256 GB SSD
06:03 jojoa1997 WindHero You canNOT use a hard drive
06:03 jojoa1997 you must use a floppy disk
06:03 WindHero ROFL
06:03 jojoa1997 OR YOU WILL DIE!
06:03 WindHero Have you even tried finding a floppy reader for a laptop?
06:03 WindHero I really don't want to get a usb floppy reader
06:04 super9mega why would you need floppy reader?
06:04 WindHero (heck, the last time I used a floppy, it was to backup childish images made in MS Paint :P)
06:05 WindHero (oh, and beginning Python scripts)
06:05 super9mega first time my dad broke open a floppy and it was really not a hard disk my mind was blown, i dont even know why
06:05 WindHero in any case, I'd love to experiment with internal mapgen C++ code
06:06 WindHero \floppy\ disc.
06:06 WindHero just a disc of magnetic tape...
06:06 super9mega i know, but with technology it could be named after a guys last name or something
06:07 WindHero lol, I suppose...
06:07 super9mega edward j. floppy (:
06:07 WindHero EJ floppy
06:07 WindHero eject the floppy disk
06:08 super9mega so do you make mods? i like to try programing but i only know html and like 2 commands in java
06:08 WindHero Yup!
06:08 WindHero Try checking out CaveRealms on the forum
06:08 WindHero or SkyTest under subgames
06:09 super9mega system.out.printline("this gets repetitive after a while");
06:09 WindHero and nice, keep learning. If you like it, you will
06:09 WindHero *continue to do so
06:09 super9mega alright, should check them out
06:09 super9mega darn it
06:10 super9mega should check them out
06:10 super9mega much better
06:11 WindHero Nice!
06:11 WindHero Just finished a college course on Web Technology
06:11 WindHero it was so easy... :o
06:12 WindHero Although I found C++ even easier, somehow
06:12 WindHero less room for artistry, I suppose :P
06:12 super9mega lol, im on the point of ordered list on codecadamy
06:12 super9mega and that stuff
06:13 super9mega i really need to get on it
06:13 exio4 WindHero, take proglang in coursera
06:13 exio4 it's a beautiful course
06:13 WindHero xD
06:14 WindHero I'll see if the university ever offers it...
06:14 WindHero I'm bummed that I wasn't able to take robotics programming this semester...
06:14 WindHero now I gotta wait until next spring
06:15 super9mega the problem i have is dedication, its easier to find hacks then to program your own or just get bored and remeber to go and learn it
06:15 super9mega like this
06:15 super9mega http://www.wizardhax.com/
06:16 super9mega i have a website with hundreds or trainers, all for different games
06:16 WindHero :P
06:16 WindHero But if you do that, you'll never be able to make your own game!
06:17 exio4 WindHero, it's on coursera
06:17 exio4 %google proglang coursera
06:17 super9mega if i made a game it would be like a batch game...
06:17 WindHero rofl
06:17 super9mega which i can make
06:17 super9mega http://mrantifun.net/index.php?threads/list-of-all-trainers-on-this-forum-updated-as-of-20th-december-2014.503/
06:17 WindHero actually, I got started on game making with this: https://www.yoyogames.com/studio
06:17 super9mega (if you ever need it...)
06:18 WindHero well, not studio, but anyway
06:18 super9mega wow, looks neat
06:18 WindHero exio4: if I didn't have only a week before next semester starts, I'd totally learn it
06:19 WindHero but Discrete Math, Calculus, and C++ are gonna push it right out of my head if I start now
06:19 exio4 C++ is crap, calculus isn't that difficult, and discrete math is amazing enough to have it easy
06:19 MinetestBot 02[git] 04kwolekr -> 03minetest/minetest: Optionally specify propogateSunlight area in calcLighting (fixes V5 segfault) 13aa88340 http://git.io/5SKDgQ (152015-01-05T01:18:53-05:00)
06:19 exio4 so you should have plently of time
06:19 exio4 btw, may I join my bot for a sec?
06:20 WindHero Oh, forgot to mention my Writing Intensive course.
06:20 exio4 wat
06:20 exio4 https://www.coursera.org/course/proglang -- this one was amazing
06:20 WindHero second semester freshman, already taking a WI course :P
06:20 WindHero just a sec...
06:21 super9mega yea, but i have a advantage! im 14 and im already starting, if i keep going im going to be so good at it, im already taking my strata later this year (only freshmen going to take it)
06:21 WindHero bookmarked
06:21 exio4 you should touch functional programming now
06:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04kwolekr -> 03minetest/minetest: Optionally specify propagateSunlight area in calcLighting 137289d61 http://git.io/IbFzOg (152015-01-05T01:20:36-05:00)
06:21 WindHero btw... I've been coding for 5 years
06:21 Cylus Yeah, better stick with dysfunctional programming.
06:22 exio4 I took proglang just a bit before my 16th birthday
06:22 WindHero I took Python and Visual Basic when I was 13
06:22 super9mega ill look into it
06:22 exio4 WindHero, how old are you, and in which languages?
06:22 exio4 proglang was the first formal course I ever did
06:22 WindHero 18
06:22 exio4 I learnt VB 6 and Pascal (self-taught) when I was in my 10s
06:23 WindHero Python, Visual Basic, C#, JavaScript, HTML, C++, Lua, CSS
06:23 WindHero I know I'm missing something...
06:23 WindHero UnityScript
06:23 exio4 so, mostly languages that are either mainstream or crap or lua, which is actually nice
06:24 exio4 you should touch some language with a decent type system
06:24 WindHero I took those first two when I was 13, in an accredited high school course, and got 100 on every test.
06:24 exio4 you'll love it probbly
06:24 WindHero Like I said, I definitely will look into it
06:24 exio4 you should haskell the next year!
06:24 exio4 also, I am gonna be 18 soon(tm)
06:25 WindHero Also, I recently did a research paper on the history of programming
06:25 super9mega none of those are really bad... they all have uses
06:25 exio4 super9mega, those are useful as a chainsaw while trying to kill mosquitos
06:25 WindHero Ever heard of Wyvern?
06:25 exio4 I don't think so
06:25 WindHero It's new, and Open Source
06:26 exio4 "new"
06:26 exio4 new as 90s?
06:26 WindHero if it pans out, it could theoretically replace current web page writing practice
06:26 WindHero New as in last 5 years
06:26 exio4 ah]
06:26 WindHero still unfinished
06:26 WindHero CMU is behind it
06:27 exio4 I would like to see dependant types in mainstream languages
06:27 exio4 it'd be pretty cool
06:27 exio4 maybe in 40 years
06:27 super9mega so exio4 has no respect for the great original languages, got it
06:27 WindHero and dependant types are useful... why?
06:27 WindHero rofl
06:28 exio4 super9mega, great original languages? most mainstream languages in that list aren't new, they didn't add anything new to the world
06:28 WindHero and super9mega, the original languages are, like, AutoCode, Fortran, Lisp, Cobol...
06:28 WindHero Simula67
06:29 WindHero ^that was REALLY important
06:29 WindHero object oriented programming as we know it was born from that
06:29 jojoa1997 if you want the great original language it is called math
06:29 WindHero true dat
06:29 WindHero even more so, binary math
06:29 exio4 Visual Basic added a new language that nobody wants to touch, Python isn't even a good toy language, C# is a bad joke from Microsoft, JS isn't even that good, it does pretty well for being in a community so shitty like web, HTML is a programming language as my bike is a rocket
06:29 exio4 no WindHero, λ calculus
06:30 WindHero :O
06:30 WindHero fancy xD
06:30 exio4 #calc (\x -> x) 2
06:30 nxbot 2.0
06:30 kaeza >Python isn't even a good toy language
06:30 kaeza gg
06:30 exio4 #calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1))
06:30 nxbot Error :"stdin" (line 1, column 55):unexpected end of inputexpecting atom, operator or ")"
06:31 exio4 #calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1)))
06:31 nxbot [\n -> if ((n < 1.0)) then (1.0) else ((n * (fact (n - 1.0))))]
06:31 WindHero And yeah, HTML is markup, not a programming language
06:31 exio4 #calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1))) 20
06:31 nxbot 2.43290200817664e18
06:31 exio4 #calc (fix (\fact -> \n -> if (n<1) then 1 else n*fact(n-1))) 7
06:31 nxbot 5040.0
06:31 exio4 turing completeness ^
06:31 WindHero noice
06:31 exio4 #calc fix
06:31 nxbot [\f -> ((\x -> (f (x x))) (\x -> (f (x x))))]
06:31 WindHero and your syntax is heartbreaking
06:31 super9mega i have to go, nice talking to you all!
06:31 exio4 it's haskellish syntax
06:32 WindHero kk, bye!
06:32 exio4 lambda-calculus is from the 30s
06:32 exio4 bye super9mega
06:32 super9mega bye
06:32 WindHero mary had a little lambda?
06:32 exio4 lisp is from the 60s, ML is from the 80s
06:32 exio4 in 2015, we are still using Java, with a type system that is retarded
06:32 WindHero AutoCode is from the 50's
06:32 exio4 if this isn't a fucking joke, I don't know what it is
06:33 WindHero Oh, I technically know Java, I've just never used it
06:33 exio4 I'll avoid Java as much as I can
06:33 WindHero How about Boo?
06:33 exio4 boo?
06:34 WindHero the scripting language
06:34 exio4 haven't heard of it
06:34 WindHero I've never used it, but I've heard of it
06:34 exio4 oh
06:34 WindHero can be used to script Unity3D games
06:34 exio4 objects
06:35 exio4 how cool would be the programming language field without the modern version of OOP
06:35 WindHero what would you have instead?
06:35 exio4 Some features of note include type inference, generators, multimethods, optional duck typing, macros, true closures, currying, and first-class functions. Boo has been actively developed since 2003.
06:35 exio4 :O
06:35 exio4 sounds pretty cool
06:36 exio4 WindHero, functional programming with records
06:36 WindHero records?
06:36 exio4 and subtyping+parametric polymorphism
06:36 exio4 WindHero, uhh, structs?
06:36 exio4 the closest I can think of
06:37 WindHero well, become a computer engineer, and make the ideal language
06:37 exio4 there isn't such a thing as the ideal language
06:37 WindHero structs, eh? C# and C++ have them
06:37 WindHero bingo
06:37 exio4 it's all about the tradeoffs
06:37 WindHero we use what we have, and use the best tools for the specific jobs
06:37 exio4 OOP is "we'll tradeoff everything for having enterprise code"
06:37 exio4 WindHero, structs arent quite what I want
06:37 WindHero lol, no
06:38 WindHero someone's looking at things in monochrome
06:38 exio4 product and sum types
06:38 exio4 WindHero, give me two places where OOP is actually consise, and isn't GUI
06:38 WindHero video game objects
06:39 WindHero subclasses of enemies, for example
06:39 WindHero and...
06:39 exio4 functional interfaces do that pretty well, so do ADTs, and they are more consise
06:39 WindHero :P
06:40 WindHero Call me when Unity3D or Unreal Engine supports ProgLang then...
06:40 exio4 OO decomposition in OOP languages is crap, it's basically a shitty version of parametric polymorphic
06:40 exio4 WindHero, that argument is just "because it's what we have got, it must be cool", or what?
06:40 WindHero so, what's the downside to parametric polymorphic?
06:41 exio4 it is pretty good
06:41 exio4 that is what you call generics in the oo land
06:41 WindHero and I'm not saying that I'm denying your argument, I'm just saying that I can't do much with the other language type until my line of work supports it
06:41 exio4 yes, I know
06:42 exio4 my argument is that OO is like a cancer
06:42 WindHero Trust me, i have bones to pick with OO
06:42 WindHero still gets the job done, however
06:42 WindHero just not... elegantly
06:43 WindHero (still, I try darn hard to code my C++ as elegantly as I can...)
06:43 exio4 OOP is basically turing tarpit as its finest
06:43 exio4 you can code elegantly WindHero
06:43 WindHero (And my teacher gave extra credit points for the effort)
06:43 exio4 you just need to implement a scheme interpreter
06:43 exio4 I don't really give a shit about credits
06:44 WindHero scheme interpreter?
06:45 exio4 programming with objects is like hunting sharks with a spoon
06:45 WindHero watashi wa obaachiibaa desu.
06:45 exio4 WindHero, scheme = programming language?
06:45 WindHero oh
06:45 exio4 it's a functional version of lisp
06:45 WindHero come to Hawaii, let's shark hunt with spoons together
06:46 exio4 OO is the enterprise version of a turing tarpit
06:46 exio4 it's a good way for modeling 0.0001% things in the world
06:46 exio4 sadly, that 0.0001% is where it isn't used
06:47 WindHero Hence, the root of this is your disdain for enterprises
06:47 exio4 no
06:48 exio4 I like some parts of OOP, which can be basically be trivially implemented in any language with first-order functions and real closures
06:48 exio4 closures are lovely
06:48 WindHero indeed
06:49 WindHero Have you ever tried programming with coroutines?
06:49 exio4 you mean green threads, or what?
06:49 exio4 I have used Haskell+GHC, for what it's worth :D
06:49 WindHero routines that can start and stop
06:50 kahrl we had to code a game in scheme (actually a purely functional subset of it) in one of the classes I went to
06:50 exio4 I envy you :(
06:50 kahrl copying the entire game state every game tick (because everything is immutable) got ugly very quick
06:50 kahrl but if you like it...
06:50 WindHero say, when something updates 60 times per second, but you want something to operate along side it, like a gradual shift in alpha
06:50 exio4 the idea is reducing the state to something very small
06:51 exio4 WindHero, you basically talk about concurrency as if it was something very crazy
06:51 exio4 kahrl, and also, monad transformers!
06:51 WindHero it can be in 3D game programming :P
06:51 kahrl we didn't know any category theory, so no monads
06:51 WindHero especially in C#
06:51 WindHero one of my bones to pick
06:51 exio4 Except + State + Reader + IO
06:52 exio4 I don't know category theory kahrl
06:52 exio4 it's in my todo list though
06:52 * exio4 looks at the window "Allufi's Algebra: Chapter 0" in his taskbar
06:53 WindHero I've been having complexity of algorithms drilled into my head over the last four months...
06:53 exio4 big O notation?
06:53 WindHero ja
06:54 WindHero and big Theta
06:54 exio4 I see
06:54 exio4 what stuff?
06:54 WindHero sorting algorithms, search algorithms, RSA encryption...
06:55 WindHero Chinese Remainder Theorem
06:55 exio4 cool
06:55 WindHero 20 digit primes... lots of talk about them, but thankfully no practice in finding them
06:56 WindHero anyways, I gotta go now
06:56 WindHero nice talking!
06:56 exio4 see ya
06:56 WindHero cya
06:58 exio4 kahrl, having implicit & explicit state at the same time allows for fun stuff
06:58 exio4 also, actions being first-class is also pretty cool!
06:58 exio4 let x = y in x >> x is the same as y >> y
07:02 kahrl nice
07:02 chchjesus let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2
07:03 exio4 #calc let plus = \x -> \y -> if (x==2) then (if (y==2) then 5 else x+y) else x+y in plus 2 2
07:03 nxbot Error :"stdin" (line 1, column 31):unexpected '='expecting operator
07:04 exio4 #calc let plus = (\x -> \y -> if (x==2) then (if (y==2) then 5 else (x+y)) else (x+y)) in plus 2 2
07:04 nxbot Error :"stdin" (line 1, column 32):unexpected '='expecting operator
07:04 exio4 :(
07:04 exio4 #calc let plus = (\x -> \y -> if (x=2) then (if (y=2) then 5 else (x+y)) else (x+y)) in plus 2 2
07:04 nxbot 5.0
07:04 exio4 there
07:29 Jordach !tell hmmmm you're patch to fig segfaults appears to be working
07:29 MinetestBot Jordach: I'll pass that on when hmmmm is around
07:42 MinetestBot 02[git] 04kwolekr -> 03minetest/minetest: Shorten ManualMapVoxelManipulator to MMVManip 132d849b0 http://git.io/8158Sg (152015-01-05T02:42:27-05:00)
07:47 ThatGraemeGuy wooo, fig all the bugs
07:47 * ThatGraemeGuy runs
07:50 kaeza bug all the figs!
07:52 kaeza also >you're >YOU'RE
07:52 kaeza son, I am disappoint
08:08 Jordach meow
12:45 redstonecraftpl Hi
12:57 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Prevent client crashing if an NDT_AIRLIKE node is dropped 13beb6b3e http://git.io/XX08dw (152015-01-05T22:55:02+10:00)
14:49 luizrpgluiz hi
14:50 shadowzone Yo!
16:23 crazyR what can cause chat commands to fail to work without an error? anyone got any ideas
16:24 Calinou crazyR, the chatplus mod.
16:24 Calinou or other chat handlers
16:24 Calinou remove these mods
16:24 Yellowberry X
16:25 crazyR i dont have these mods although you have game me an idea as to what to look for.
16:25 Yellowberry What is going on?
16:27 Calinou what subgame do you use, crazyR, which Minetest version do you use?
16:29 crazyR its a modified version of minetest_game
16:29 crazyR under developement.
16:44 Yellowberry 2015 resolution: to simply write 2015 instead of 2014
16:44 Yellowberry oh
16:44 Yellowberry I need to update minetest!
16:45 Calinou update yourself to v2015
16:45 Yellowberry hi Krock
16:45 exio4 oh look, it's a Yellowberry
16:46 Yellowberry yeah
16:46 Krock hi
16:46 Yellowberry I was magnetically attracted to my seat during winter break playing stuff like OpenSpades
16:46 Yellowberry if i'm not mistaken
16:47 Yellowberry the new version was released the day I got off for break
17:05 Krock gonna love this commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/bdcf03 hashtag lua mpagen
18:19 mihaly howdy
18:20 kaeza hi
18:21 Yellowbanana hihihihi
18:21 exio4 hai
18:21 mihaly hello - i'm curious about runtime errors - sometimes I get "can't write new conf" file error - any help?
18:22 mihaly from the mobf - not minetest itself?
18:22 mihaly its not actually a runtime, more of a server complint
18:28 Sokomine mihaly: best talk to sapier about it. he seems to be online
18:32 mihaly am in the presence of greatness, I deeply bow and say thanks :)
18:34 Jordach Sokomine, the world is alive
18:34 Jordach hmmmm managed to fix it
18:44 mihaly its more of a mobf problem, it seems, not actually minetest, I don't know whether it's a permissions problem on win8
18:45 mihaly but allowing write access (modify) for users didn't stop the error msg from appearing
18:46 twoelk|2 mihaly: from what directory are you running Minetest?
18:46 mihaly just regular C:\games
18:46 Calinou don't install in C:\Program Files
18:46 Calinou C:\Games should be OK
18:46 Calinou but try your desktop to be sure
18:47 twoelk ^
18:47 mihaly yeah, I didn't want to run it from anywhere else
18:47 mihaly as i say, it seems more to be wih the mobf not the server
18:48 mihaly maybe I should be asking in a differrnt forum?
18:48 Calinou ask in the MOBF thread?
18:48 Calinou provide logs
18:49 twoelk sapier is just discussing android problems over at minetest-dev, so he is online although somewhat occupied
18:49 mihaly mmmm - yeah, thats what I was thinking. just wanted to start here ,,,, suggests for actual channel??
18:49 Jordach mihaly, you won't be able to talk in there
18:49 Jordach webchat clients are perma muted
18:50 Calinou there is no specific channel
18:50 mihaly so will mozilla IRC be banned as well?
18:50 Calinou the qwebIRC clients are banned
18:51 Krock use a real IRC client, what's wrong with it?
18:51 Calinou other web IRC clients are not necessarily banned
18:51 Calinou in doubt, get HexChat and connect
18:51 Calinou Krock, some people can't or don't want to install software just for 1 channel
18:51 Jordach mihaly, if you're connected via webchat.freenode.net you're not going in to talk
18:51 mihaly actually I am not sure Im asking the right question anyway. I kind of just wanted to give thanks to those who provide such great game
18:51 Krock Calinou, I'm on 2 servers, 4 channels in total so it can be useful somewhen :)
18:52 Calinou 5 networks, 41 channels here
18:52 mihaly I had an actual chat thingy but I just am used to chatzilla - whats wrong with that?
18:52 Krock 8)
18:52 Calinou ChatZilla should work
18:52 Jordach Used to be 5 networks, before one changed the IP and i never bothered to fix it
18:53 mihaly so, umm, which channel would it be? Isit on freenode?
18:53 Krock chat.freenode.net is the server here
18:53 Jordach yes #minetest-dev
18:53 mihaly ahh! Yes, Dev of course. thasn kyou
18:53 mihaly still be here.
18:54 mihaly log outof qweb, catch you flipside, yeah? Cool
20:47 Selah I got Linux working in a VM
21:08 Yellowbanana my problem with HexChat is everyone is scared of it because it's shareware
21:08 Yellowbanana :/
21:09 sfan5 what
21:09 sfan5 hexchat isn't shareware
21:09 sfan5 xchat is shareware
22:24 crazyR is it possible to do a colored label on a formspec?
22:26 STHGOM how do you call get_player_control()?
22:51 carjack good afternoon
23:07 carjack tfw proller is a freeminer dev
23:29 carjack I get more than 60fps with my gtx750 ti
23:29 carjack it is pleasing