IRC log for #minetest, 2013-05-07

Time	Nick	Message
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00:18	Kacey	RealBadAngel, ping
00:18	RealBadAngel	pong
00:18	RealBadAngel	sup?
00:22	Kacey	i was wondering if i could use the alloy furnace formspec code(a little tweaked though)
00:22	Kacey	err nvm i think i could add what i need to the default furnace formspec
00:32	PilzAdam	bye
00:50	RealBadAngel	Kacey, if you want feel free to use it
00:51	RealBadAngel	theres coal driven alloy furnace, that can be safely taken from technic and used elsewhere
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01:24	Kacey	i already killed the mod... apparently, multi-block storage tanks are not very useful if they aren't coded in
01:27	Kacey	http://youtu.be/sSE5HmryaP4
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01:33	jojoa1997	Ping All
01:33	jojoa1997	Hi :-D
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01:53	Kacey	Unfortunately I cannot live up to every one's expectations... if I am not living up to yours, please f*ck off... I'm better without you in my life anyway...
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02:04	jojoa1997	uh what was this
02:04	jojoa1997	\/
02:04	jojoa1997	<Kacey> Unfortunately I cannot live up to every one's expectations... if I am not living up to yours, please f*ck off... I'm better without you in my life anyway...
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02:26	* VanessaE	is back
02:28	bcnjr5	Hello.
02:28	VanessaE	hey
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03:29	VanessaE	evening 0gb
03:29	[0gb_us]	Hey, VanessaE! And how are you this evening?
03:30	VanessaE	pretty good, if tired :)
03:31	[0gb_us]	That's good to hear.
05:00	sfan5	http://c55.me/blog/?p=1128#comment-4873
05:00	sfan5	wat?
05:00	sfan5	"Try Minecraft instead, I heard itâ€™s written in a performance-oriented language."
05:02	[0gb_us]	That comment has nothing to do with the topic on the page. Foolishness!
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05:16	enchilado	sfan5: are they joking?
05:16	enchilado	They're joking aren't they?
05:16	sfan5	i think so
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06:05	khonkhortisan	What happens when you move the quote: 6 Responses to â€œSASL?" Seriously?
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06:18	* khonkhortisan	starts using real-world units
06:20	VanessaE	bbl
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08:05	ShadowNinja	hmm, Does anyone know how I can have a C program run as root? I tried chown root:root and chmod +s but it seems I am missing something about suid.
08:05	Jordach	sudo ./app
08:05	Jordach	provided you cd'd first
08:07	ShadowNinja	Jordach: This needs to work for users without sudo and without a password.
08:07	Jordach	ehm
08:07	Jordach	no idea
08:10	Jordach	ShadowNinja, dunno, can you use bash?
08:10	Jordach	because i used a certain trick before
08:10	Jordach	which made me root when sudo was used.
08:10	ShadowNinja	Jordach: I have bash installed, if that is what you mean.
08:10	Jordach	(actually, thats default behaviour.)
08:11	Jordach	ShadowNinja, when i used sudo, i never had to use my password
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08:11	ShadowNinja	Jordach: NOPASSWD or something like that in /etc/sudoers
08:11	celeron55	setuid is a thing on it's own not related to sudo
08:12	Jordach	ShadowNinja, that.
08:12	Jordach	kaeza1, have you seen what i've been doing with node boxes
08:12	kaeza1	seen the logs
08:12	kaeza1	those things are awesome
08:12	ShadowNinja	Maybe I could set it up so everyone could sudo to that one program without a password...
08:12	Jordach	all thanks to rubenwardy
08:13	kaeza1	the desk, office chair and monitor right?
08:13	Jordach	and the inflatable chair
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08:13	qznc__	That chmod +s should work. Have you checked ownership and permissions with ls -l?
08:13	Jordach	kaeza1, what should i add
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08:13	kaeza1	hmm
08:14	kaeza1	I think some filing cabinets would be nice
08:14	qznc__	Should show something like "app -rwsr-sr-x 1 root root"
08:14	Jordach	kaeza1, a normal cube could do those
08:15	kaeza1	hmm... how about a register and some shelves for a store?
08:17	kaeza1	I don't have many ideas right now
08:17	kaeza1	been making an FPS pack
08:18	ShadowNinja	qznc__: Yes, it is exactly like that.
08:21	Jordach	kaeza,
08:21	Jordach	http://i.imgur.com/d2F5iAj.png
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08:22	Jordach	i've used a real register myself
08:22	kaeza	that was quick :D
08:22	kaeza	awesome
08:22	Jordach	kaeza, i can model from the mind
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08:23	Jordach	i dont use the default textures of nodebox gen
08:23	Jordach	i hate them
08:23	kaeza	they are just dummies for now
08:23	Infinity_69	hi
08:23	kaeza	I gotta finish the save/load routines
08:23	celeron55	VanessaE: in languages where you can do "if x.y.z" even if x.y doesn't exist you have to surround the thing with an exception handling block, which really defeats the purpose
08:24	Infinity_69	sup men (and ladies ;o )
08:24	qznc__	ShadowNinja: Do you spawn further processes? Then you need setuid(0) in you C program. See http://stackoverflow.com/questions/556194/calling-a-script-from-a-setuid-root-c-program-script-does-not-run-as-root
08:25	Jordach	kaeza, i've learned some of the modding api
08:26	kaeza	Jordach, nice!
08:26	Jordach	right testing the register ingame
08:28	ShadowNinja	qznc__: No, just one simple ~20 line C program.
08:28	ShadowNinja	I suppose a line in /etc/sudoers will do.
08:29	Infinity_69	!g android emulator win32
08:29	MinetestBot	Infinity_69: http://developer.appcelerator.com/question/143174/android-emulator---failed-to-allocate-memory8
08:29	Infinity_69	!g android emulator
08:29	MinetestBot	Infinity_69: http://developer.android.com/tools/help/emulator.html
08:29	Jordach	Infinity_69, google it yourself
08:29	Infinity_69	hmm...why?
08:29	Infinity_69	this is faster
08:30	Infinity_69	and...ugh...yeah.
08:30	Infinity_69	!g download android SDK
08:30	MinetestBot	Infinity_69: http://developer.android.com/sdk/
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09:54	celeron55	http://tildehash.com/?article=firefoxs-inspector-tool-as-3d-modeler-seriously
09:56	whirm1	haha
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10:05	Infinity_69	hi guys
10:05	Infinity_69	sup
10:05	Infinity_69	<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1egYn0Tb-rs> BROSTEP!
10:05	Infinity_69	Brofist!
10:14	celeron55	http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/paper.html
10:16	iqualfragile	i have seen some page wich created a tree
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10:24	celeron55	iqualfragile: i wonder if one can make a block-building game with it 8)
10:25	celeron55	probably lacks bindings for controls
10:27	kaeza	Minefirefoxelementinspectortest?
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10:36	iqualfragile	i cant seem to find itâ€¦
10:45	iqualfragile	what realy annoys me about english texts are german words spelled wrong because there are no umlauts on english keyboards, it just looks so wrong
10:46	iqualfragile	its doppelgÃ¤nger not doppelganger, its Ã¼ber not uber
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10:52	celeron55	iqualfragile: tell that to american keyboards
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11:03	iqualfragile	yeah, i know
11:03	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
11:04	iqualfragile	hi PilzAdam
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12:08	arsdragonfly\|pho	Hey guys
12:09	PilzAdam	New win build: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4547
12:09	arsdragonfly\|pho	if I can start a local game but I can't access the server what might be the issue?
12:10	arsdragonfly\|pho	it's not behind routers, so no port issues
12:10	sfan5	hello guys
12:11	arsdragonfly\|pho	also the server console looks fine ,and I know that you guys hate questions like "help minetest crashes"
12:11	VanessaE	[05-07 04:23] <celeron55> VanessaE: in languages where you can do "if x.y.z" [...]
12:11	arsdragonfly\|pho	hello sfan5
12:11	VanessaE	I know.. it's just that it's a pain in the ass to have to do that. but if that's what's needed, so be it
12:11	VanessaE	hi all
12:12	arsdragonfly\|pho	but the problem is there
12:12	arsdragonfly\|pho	hi
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12:27	* arsdragonfly	is still stuck in that strange issue...
12:29	* Calinou	is adding unified bricks and colored wood support to MCE
12:29	Calinou	prepare for another 30MB pack
12:31	VanessaE	Calinou: use the gentextures.sh script included with unified dyes - it'll sharply reduce the effort
12:31	Calinou	I know
12:31	VanessaE	ok :)
12:31	Calinou	I did that for misa
12:32	Calinou	but the pack will be much bigger since textures are 256Ã—256 :P
12:32	VanessaE	heh
12:32	VanessaE	HDX takes 240MB now at 512px
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12:48	arsdragonfly	who designed that icon of minetest?
12:48	arsdragonfly	PilzAdam?
12:48	PilzAdam	erlehmann
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12:50	arsdragonfly	so what's his opinion about the visual style of minetest?:P
12:51	arsdragonfly	any keywords?
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12:52	Calinou	john_minetest: texture filtering will do the same thing
12:52	Calinou	just as ugly :P
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12:54	VanessaE	haha
12:54	VanessaE	better idea: SVG trace them, export the result to 512px ;)
12:54	VanessaE	(1024px is too much for the engine to handle right now)
12:55	VanessaE	hah!
12:55	VanessaE	you wish
12:56	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: so, what's a nodebox?
12:56	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: a nodebox is a small, 3d rectilinear object that can be placed into a node, for as many of them as needed, to form simple geometric models.
12:56	PilzAdam	its a drawtype where the nodes define a number of boxes that are drawn
12:56	PilzAdam	e.g. stairs
12:57	* Calinou	also added stained glass support
12:57	VanessaE	Calinou: the alpha variety, I presume ;)
12:57	PilzAdam	VanessaE, close: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88756#p88756
13:00	VanessaE	PilzAdam: close? no. Deleted.
13:00	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2333
13:00	kaeza	what is this thing with the posts about redcrab's server?
13:00	VanessaE	kaeza: just someone being a schmuck
13:00	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, this gives an impression what you can do with nodeboxes
13:01	Calinou	with nodebox, you can randomly place "cubes" inside (or outside) a node space
13:01	kaeza	I'm 99% sure all of these topics are by the same guy
13:01	Calinou	you cannot rotate them though
13:01	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: as far as i can see its just regular voxel body enhanced with direct filling commands
13:01	PilzAdam	kaeza, /me too
13:02	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: for an extreme example, look at post #21
13:02	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: or the "noncubic" mod, or my pipeworks.
13:02	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, well, voxel always have the same size (1x1x1 meter in Minetest), but the nodeboxes have different sizes
13:02	smoke_fumus	Yeap.
13:02	smoke_fumus	its a voxel body
13:03	Calinou	60MB of texture packs to upload
13:03	Calinou	;-;
13:03	Calinou	dropbox estimate: 28 minutes left
13:03	smoke_fumus	why just don't use nodes to generate voxel body in the end?
13:03	Calinou	nodeboxes are fine
13:03	PilzAdam	because the normal drawtype is faster
13:03	smoke_fumus	i mean - with that you can pretty must enable structurial damage
13:03	Calinou	there's some additional software made by rubenwardy which helps you design them
13:04	smoke_fumus	*pretty much
13:04	Calinou	or just get a piece of paper, draw X+ and Z+ axis on a square :P
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13:04	smoke_fumus	Calinou: that's how i were designing custom vehicles for red alert 2 actually.
13:05	smoke_fumus	editor allows to import slices of voxel body layer by layer
13:05	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: coming soon, nodes with the "mesh" drawtype (=proper 3d vector models)
13:06	Calinou	you can also use md2/md3/x/b3d/anything supported by irrlicht model meshes for entities
13:06	Calinou	see simple mobs mod
13:06	VanessaE	yup
13:06	Calinou	or just the default player model
13:06	VanessaE	also look at prestibags
13:06	smoke_fumus	only thing - make torches look like their 2d counterparts instead of ugly pyramid-lava
13:06	smoke_fumus	:D
13:06	PilzAdam	Simple Mobs \o/
13:06	smoke_fumus	also, can you animate frame-by-frame?
13:06	Calinou	yes
13:07	PilzAdam	only the textures, no the nodebox
13:07	smoke_fumus	nodebox i mean
13:07	Calinou	you can also animate textures, even on nodeboxes
13:07	Calinou	nope then
13:07	smoke_fumus	why?
13:07	Calinou	you could use ABMs, but that's very hacky :P
13:07	PilzAdam	because nodeboxes are defined in the node definition
13:07	Calinou	gtg
13:07	PilzAdam	and this is not changeable while running
13:08	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: so what restricts you from adding 3variables (bool animated, int numframes, float animSpeed), swapping nodebox with nodebox[] and plugging in multiple nodeboxes, and swapping them afteerwards?
13:08	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: the time it takes to code and test such a thing.
13:08	kaeza	PilzAdam, regarding simple mobs, I just noticed you shear the sheeps with right click, but you don't get wool
13:09	PilzAdam	I would prefer changing anything from the nodedef at runtime
13:09	kaeza	is this intended?
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13:09	PilzAdam	kaeza, you only get wool if you have the wool mod installed
13:09	smoke_fumus	up the nodedef then. or its static?
13:09	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: in other words, if you know how to do it, adding the ability to move/rotate/animate nodeboxes probably would be welcomed
13:09	PilzAdam	currently its static
13:09	smoke_fumus	hmmm...
13:09	VanessaE	kaeza, PilzAdam: or flowers_plus.
13:09	smoke_fumus	well rotation is beyond simple
13:10	PilzAdam	VanessaE, hm?
13:10	VanessaE	PilzAdam: nevermind. misread it.
13:10	* PilzAdam	knew it
13:10	smoke_fumus	add another variable int rot- restrict it from 0 to 3, on placing multiply angle like .position, .rotation Y(rot90)
13:11	smoke_fumus	counting that you can rotate entire block in general
13:11	kaeza	no wool in survival :(
13:12	smoke_fumus	i actually were thinking through (not minetest related but whatever) format for locked types of stuff https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9288177/screens/iso-to-3d%20saveformat.png but nodeboxes gaved me an idea
13:13	smoke_fumus	the format and its interpretation is under lgpl too?
13:14	PilzAdam	yes
13:15	smoke_fumus	good. than i can use it in my project as well, just try linking it dynamically.
13:15	smoke_fumus	*then
13:16	PilzAdam	ehm
13:17	PilzAdam	that wouldnt work
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13:17	smoke_fumus	yes it will. i'll grab format reader implementation, make dll library out of it and link it dynamically to project
13:18	PilzAdam	well, that could work
13:18	smoke_fumus	:D
13:18	smoke_fumus	or just write reader from scratch, format doesn't seem to bee too hard to interpret, counting that i'm using unity3d
13:18	PilzAdam	Minetest is just not designed to support this, though
13:19	kaeza	format of what?
13:19	PilzAdam	nodeboxes
13:19	kaeza	aren't they defined as Lua values?
13:19	smoke_fumus	yeah, but its lgpl - WTFPL but you need to leave author's work in stand-alone source which is not statically included into your project
13:20	kaeza	I don't get it... AFAIK, ideas are not copyrightable
13:20	smoke_fumus	kaeza: but implementations of them yes
13:20	smoke_fumus	read about marching cubes
13:20	smoke_fumus	case of trivial idea but copyrighted implementation
13:21	kaeza	yes, but there's no "reader" for nodeboxes
13:21	smoke_fumus	okay, interpreter.
13:21	kaeza	all you need to do is embed the Lua interpreter in your game
13:22	* smoke_fumus	scratching head
13:22	smoke_fumus	okay i'll rewrite it on c#
13:22	sfan5	wat?
13:22	smoke_fumus	unity3d uses C# as main scripting language
13:22	kaeza	ehm
13:23	VanessaE	C#? uhm..
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13:23	smoke_fumus	C#, javascript and internal booscript
13:23	VanessaE	C++ or gtfo
13:23	sfan5	will unity3d work on linux or mac?
13:23	VanessaE	morning, hmmmm
13:23	smoke_fumus	for bare-bones coding yes. as internal scripting language - more than enough
13:24	VanessaE	C# is microsoft-centric = guaranteed obsolescence.
13:24	smoke_fumus	stop farting into pool will ya
13:24	smoke_fumus	sfan5: it is working on linux, mac, android, iphone, ipad, xbox360, ps3
13:24	smoke_fumus	as i was saying - C# is used as INTERNAL SCRIPTING language
13:24	smoke_fumus	not as outside assembly one
13:24	kaeza	smoke_fumus, then just copy the "idea" ("structure" of the nodebox data) and implement it in whatever format booscript uses for records
13:24	smoke_fumus	i can't write on booScript x.x
13:25	sfan5	!g booscript
13:25	MinetestBot	sfan5: http://boo.codehaus.org/Structure+of+a+Boo+Script
13:25	smoke_fumus	it is like wild mix of javascript and classic basic ({} bracket less)
13:25	sfan5	looks like lua and obj-c mixed..
13:25	kaeza	I don't even know what booscript is
13:25	kaeza	:P
13:25	kaeza	ah
13:25	sfan5	kaeza: see MinetestBot's link
13:25	hmmmm	hi
13:25	sfan5	hi hmmmm
13:25	smoke_fumus	i'm scared of such languages. its not brainfuck/perl kind of phobia, but pretty close :D
13:26	sfan5	!g what is brainfuck?
13:26	MinetestBot	sfan5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
13:26	sfan5	(just kidding)
13:26	kaeza	it would be fun to write MT in BF
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13:28	sfan5	kaeza: that'd be possible, you'd just need to add the ability to load shared libs and call methods
13:28	sfan5	+from them
13:28	smoke_fumus	kaeza: you can't
13:28	smoke_fumus	brainfuck doesn't have / operation
13:28	kaeza	smoke_fumus, it was meant as a joke
13:28	kaeza	laugh
13:28	smoke_fumus	poor joke.
13:29	kaeza	I know :'(
13:29	VanessaE	kaeza: or just use the L-systems code ;-)
13:29	sfan5	smoke_fumus: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Rechenoperationen -> Division
13:29	smoke_fumus	huh. they added it
13:29	PilzAdam	sfan5, de?
13:29	VanessaE	Mar 16 2013 15:23:55 <celeron55> this L-system language is the closest to brainfuck that i have seen, that actually is not brainfuck
13:29	kaeza	VanessaE, that would be fun too :P
13:29	smoke_fumus	it wasn't in original implementation
13:30	sfan5	PilzAdam: that section doesn't exists on en.(...)
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13:31	VanessaE	why does he do that?
13:31	smoke_fumus	so anywho, as i was saying - unity3d uses C# and JS as internal scripting. it has internal interpreter done on mono (not native ms .net obviously) and it works on full power. in my opinion - u3d is superior than udk in some parts.
13:31	sfan5	udk is also nice
13:31	smoke_fumus	yea, but no.
13:32	smoke_fumus	in some parts it is better, but only if you making generic fps or fps-like something. if you are about to make whatever the hell you want and not nescessary fps - amount of frustration and codework multiplies dragistically
13:33	smoke_fumus	while unity is omnipotential - it is just a 3d enviroment with scripting when you get down to it
13:34	smoke_fumus	+components such as onboard colliders, onboard physics, onboard sound system, onboard rudimentary networking (you still need to write your networking core though)
13:34	smoke_fumus	and onboard particle systems
13:36	smoke_fumus	while udk still carry loads of orthodoxal components onboard hardcoded (bsp to example), unity3d has kde/opensource module philosophy - you need something - add it, if not - it will not be included
13:37	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, do you think this is the right channel for this ad?
13:37	smoke_fumus	that wasn't ad
13:37	VanessaE	what does this even have to do with MT?
13:37	smoke_fumus	i just were describing what unity3d is for some members which don't know it
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13:47	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: getting back on subject. what about slopes? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9288177/screens/slopes.png
13:48	PilzAdam	it goes against the voxel idea of Minetest
13:48	celeron55	about previous discussion: Minetest is LGPL exactly because some of it's code may be useful as a library
13:48	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: "irregular", "noncubic" mods. homedecor has this also.
13:48	smoke_fumus	does it? okay it does. what about voxel-slopes?
13:49	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: the slopes are made with shitloads of nodeboxes, so horribly inefficient. No proper 3d models though.
13:49	PilzAdam	what is a "voxel-slope", that doesnt make sense
13:50	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: you use textured voxels for ingame world and you use node boxes. make slope inside of nodebox out of boxes - voxel slope
13:50	celeron55	arsdragonfly: why do you ask about erlehmann's opinion on the visual style? he's long gone from here though, so you're unlikely to get an answer from him
13:50	VanessaE	celeron55: I thought it was because of the possibility of commercial use?
13:50	VanessaE	celeron55: no he isn't.
13:50	celeron55	VanessaE: uhm...
13:50	VanessaE	he's been around recently.
13:51	celeron55	it's not really appropriate to pull in "commercial use" to this now
13:51	VanessaE	celeron55: I don't much care either way about commercial use, I just seemed to recall that was at the core of the discussion, at the time.
13:52	celeron55	i mean, of course one can use an LGPL library in a commercial program, but so one can do for an GPL library too
13:52	smoke_fumus	celeron55: technically yes
13:52	smoke_fumus	but gnugpl has some restrictions about that
13:53	celeron55	LGPL just allows using of a library in eg. a WTFPL program too
13:54	* sfan5	reading wikipedia: first I read a about MD5 and I end up at "Lorem ipsum"
13:54	sfan5	-a
13:54	smoke_fumus	yes, as far as i remember there is some ugly GnuGPL rules about restriction of use of that software in non-gnugpl licensed parts
13:55	smoke_fumus	most commerce-friendly is however BSD
13:55		kahrl joined #minetest
13:55	VanessaE	the most commerce-friendly is WTFPl ;)
13:55	smoke_fumus	which is public domain
13:55		arsdragonfly\|pho joined #minetest
13:55	smoke_fumus	when y ou get down to it
13:55	celeron55	due to minetest's long history and all the quirky nooby decisions done there, it's stuck to LGPL or stricter
13:55	celeron55	so that's where that comes from
13:55	VanessaE	basically, but it exists because some countries don't recognize the implicit concept of "the public domain"
13:55	VanessaE	same reason CC0 exists.
13:56	smoke_fumus	true...
13:56		arsdragonfly-pho joined #minetest
13:57	smoke_fumus	looks at options wait wat? finite water?
13:57		arsdragonfly-pho joined #minetest
13:57	smoke_fumus	looks at execution poor execution
13:58	smoke_fumus	i mean not enough stages in waterlevel parameter
13:58	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, finite water sucks
13:58	smoke_fumus	should be at least half pixel per level == 32 levels of fill with water
13:58		arsdragonfly-pho joined #minetest
13:58		Kacey\|mobile joined #minetest
13:58	smoke_fumus	actually depends on HOW do you execute it
13:59	smoke_fumus	waterlevel-way yeaa. big particle way - no it doesn't
13:59	VanessaE	I've never actually played with the finite water, but the screenshots I've seen, frankly, look like ass
13:59	PilzAdam	well, Minetest's current implementation sucks
13:59		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
13:59	smoke_fumus	true.
13:59	smoke_fumus	look at how nvidia demos do water in form of spheres+marching cubes applied
13:59	PilzAdam	the mod for Minecraft seems a lot better
13:59	celeron55	smoke_fumus: that's the second time i've seen complaints about not enough water level stages - the problem here really is that the finite water thing wasn't really made by any of the core developers and isn't in the interests of any of them, so it's just hanging around there in the condition it was contributed in
13:59	celeron55	...feel free to improve it if you can, i guess
14:00	smoke_fumus	if i do there is a big chance i'll fuck it up + this will requier rewriting of world gen completely
14:01	smoke_fumus	because if i'll do it - i'll do it particle way.
14:01	smoke_fumus	and when it comes to it - whole water levels with cave-waterfalls will just level down
14:01	smoke_fumus	although terraria done it and its fine
14:02	smoke_fumus	not particle way but still
14:02	smoke_fumus	it probably helps that in terraria player consist of 6 blocks and not just 2, so in 3d it would be 12 blocks
14:03	celeron55	well, there are two reasons why we like infinite water: the processing needed for it is very light, and it makes infinite waterfalls possible
14:03	celeron55	(as far as i understand)
14:04	celeron55	(i mean, someone might like it for some odd other reason too)
14:04		Jousway joined #minetest
14:04		Kacey\|mobile_ joined #minetest
14:04	smoke_fumus	heheheheheheheh. you can make finite water and waterfalls. only problem that it will drag whole geothermal system along with it
14:04	celeron55	smoke_fumus: it also immensely helps that terraria is 2D, which makes the complexity of everything n^2 instead of n^3 which means a fuckton
14:05	smoke_fumus	true true
14:05	smoke_fumus	to generate clouds, to make weather-rains and snows at higher altitude, mountain snow caps which slowly melt to form rivers which create waterfalls
14:05	celeron55	it often gets just depressing how much you need to calculate in 3D space
14:05		vytautas joined #minetest
14:06	vytautas	HI I made this with gdb: http://pastebin.com/cze8mcFN
14:06	smoke_fumus	so yea, finite water without water'ish thermodynamics of nature is quiet dull to assemble
14:06	vytautas	can it help to fix crash on start on my Fedora machine?
14:06	kahrl	VanessaE, I tried to connect to your server, but it's stuck at 99% of media
14:06	celeron55	lol, does even dwarf fortress properly implement that?
14:06	celeron55	if not, it's unreachable by anyone
14:06	kahrl	for several minutes now
14:06	smoke_fumus	celeron55: it implemented it terraria way
14:07	smoke_fumus	+ heavy rains sometimes add 1 level of water which desintigrates pretty quickly if its not dirt-soil tile below it
14:07	PilzAdam	kahrl, connecting to VanessaE's server is a PITA
14:07	PilzAdam	I suggest you to download the cache from her website
14:07	smoke_fumus	besides - dwarf fortress is easier to calculate since 1 unit/player/machine always takes only 1 ingame cube
14:08	smoke_fumus	not 2 or unfixed amount
14:08	kahrl	sounds like a bug in the percent calculation code
14:08	kahrl	it is one big-ass file that is counted as 1%? hmm
14:09	smoke_fumus	vytautas: try ch -r on your minetest folder
14:09	celeron55	smoke_fumus: and you don't need to even try to draw almost any of it at the same time and not even try to implement any kind of 3D visualization for it
14:09	smoke_fumus	sorry
14:10		webdesigner97 joined #minetest
14:10	smoke_fumus	wait
14:10	smoke_fumus	ch -r 777 minetest
14:10	smoke_fumus	like that
14:10	celeron55	i mean, if you have just cubes in 3D for player-sized blocks of water... eh
14:10	smoke_fumus	celeron55: generically it is 3d in dwarf fortress. only problem that its integer-type 3d
14:10	smoke_fumus	you don't have floats
14:10	celeron55	people are going to complain like never before
14:11	vytautas	smoke_fumus: ch? no such command.
14:11	smoke_fumus	.....
14:11	smoke_fumus	sorry
14:11	smoke_fumus	chmod
14:11	smoke_fumus	celeron55: again, you can make just cubes, than join their top verticles with marching cubes algorythm
14:11	smoke_fumus	that should do it
14:11	smoke_fumus	*Then
14:12	celeron55	also it's -R, not -r
14:12	celeron55	-r means something completely different for chmod
14:12	smoke_fumus	yeah sorry
14:12	smoke_fumus	either -R or --recursive
14:12	celeron55	also, wtf are you doing in the first place
14:13	celeron55	that won't help for that error in the slightest
14:13	celeron55	and i don't know what will
14:13	smoke_fumus	you sure? he might be running it under differet user
14:13	smoke_fumus	*nt
14:13	smoke_fumus	oh wait those are warnings
14:14	smoke_fumus	0x4d77e508 in __strcmp_ssse3 () from /lib/libc.so.6
14:14	smoke_fumus	....no sse3 at cpu?
14:14	vytautas	-r was bad :D I fixed it.
14:14	vytautas	maybe I check..
14:14	smoke_fumus	vytautas: what cpu are you running?
14:15	kahrl	VanessaE, sorry I thought it was still hanging, but it failed with Assertion '!m_mesh_update_thread.IsRunning()' failed.
14:15	smoke_fumus	actually doesn't matter, try downloading sources and adding cflags -march=native -mtune=native
14:15	vytautas	Intel atom no sse3 just sse2 and ssse3
14:15	smoke_fumus	then compile
14:15	vytautas	oki thx
14:16	sfan5	wow! i didn't know there were sse instruction to compare strings: http://www.strchr.com/strcmp_and_strlen_using_sse_4.2
14:16	smoke_fumus	xD
14:16	celeron55	hmm, it really does look like the compiler might have generated a binary that uses ssse3 while the CPU doesn't support it
14:16	celeron55	seems odd though
14:16	smoke_fumus	yeah, but that's about an extent of advanced functional for mips assembly. risc already allows to build vectors on assembly level
14:17	celeron55	sfan5: i guess they implemented those because modern languages like python and java and such compare strings all the time in all kinds of unnecessary places
14:18	PilzAdam	kahrl, there is a bug in the media load screen when using TTF, so someone needs to fix this anyway
14:18	smoke_fumus	something that they included after sillicon graphics were having trouble processing millions of vector hashes through high-level code
14:18	kahrl	I see
14:19	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: where nodebox interpreter code located at?
14:20	kahrl	can't those string functions be implemented with rep movs[bwd] and variants?
14:20		ShadowNinja joined #minetest
14:20	kahrl	I wonder why those aren't optimized to use vector instructions internally
14:21	codehero_	does minetest cache maps even when you exit it?
14:22	PilzAdam	clients dont cache maps
14:22	BrandonReese	No. It's caches the textures, models and sound files.
14:22	codehero_	mhhh, i thought so
14:22	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: aren't nocache direct disc access is a bit...m....harsh on disk usage?
14:23	smoke_fumus	*isn't
14:23	kahrl	smoke_fumus: nodebox "parser" is in scriptapi.cpp and scriptapi_types.cpp
14:23	smoke_fumus	thanks
14:23	smoke_fumus	i'll take a look right away
14:23	codehero_	would be cool if minetest would do this so you wouldn't have to download the whole map all the time
14:24	PilzAdam	codehero_, you never download the whole map
14:24		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
14:24	PilzAdam	you only download map blocks arround you
14:25	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: that's caching, isn't it?
14:26	codehero_	PilzAdam> okay, but even then
14:26	sfan5	smoke_fumus: its only stored in your RAM, but not saved to <non-forgetting data storage>
14:26	PilzAdam	well, it only caches it in RAM
14:26	codehero_	it often takes very long
14:26	smoke_fumus	that's still caching :p
14:27	smoke_fumus	i mean - be specific. if you meant disc-cache tell so
14:27	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, I guess he meant how textures are cached
14:27	smoke_fumus	oh.
14:27	codehero_	okay, i mean disc-cache
14:27	codehero_	so the map chunks are downloaded to the hard drive
14:27	smoke_fumus	wait, you can custom textures in minetest server-side with client dynamic load? that's awesome.
14:27	smoke_fumus	only spoutcraft did it before
14:28	codehero_	and you don't have to download them again. only the differences for example
14:28	smoke_fumus	too much junkwork
14:28	smoke_fumus	what if chunk changed?
14:28	sfan5	codehero_: map chunks are NOT saved on disk
14:29	sfan5	smoke_fumus: even if they changed.. its not hard to download 16x16x16*4 bytes of data
14:29	sfan5	!c 16 * 16 * 16 * 4
14:29	MinetestBot	16Â 384
14:29	smoke_fumus	not in hex!
14:29	sfan5	!c 16384/1024
14:29	MinetestBot	16
14:29	smoke_fumus	jeez
14:29	sfan5	that'd be 16 KB...
14:29	smoke_fumus	true..
14:29	sfan5	data in hex... what?
14:29		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
14:30	sfan5	hexadecimal is a string representation of data
14:30	RealBadAngel	huh, dont forget metadata
14:30	smoke_fumus	yea but you asked it to calculate 16 x 16 x 16 x 4
14:30	sfan5	yeah, wheres the problem?
14:30	smoke_fumus	i assume it would've given answer in DEC
14:30	sfan5	RealBadAngel: i counted just the basic things
14:30	sfan5	16Â 384 is decimal...
14:30	sfan5	^ smoke_fumus
14:31	RealBadAngel	16384 can be hex too
14:31	sfan5	but isn't
14:31	smoke_fumus	why it added b to 16k?
14:31	sfan5	<MinetestBot> 16
14:31	sfan5	i don't see a b there
14:31	RealBadAngel	use # to hiighlight hex numbers
14:31	codehero_	also. pvp doesn't seem to work.
14:32	codehero_	you can't hurt anybody on the hungry games server :P
14:32	smoke_fumus	sfan5: wait...16x16x16x4......are you telling me minetest using unfixed cube-chunks instead of tower-chunks?
14:32	sfan5	yes
14:32	RealBadAngel	"hexadecimal is a string representation of data" well, youre wrong
14:32	smoke_fumus	awesome.
14:32	smoke_fumus	sfan5: so, i can do infinite worlds in all directions
14:32	smoke_fumus	?
14:32	sfan5	you can't let 16 x 16 x 60 000 throught the connection
14:33	sfan5	no, world is limited to -30 000 to 30 000 x/y/z
14:33	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, do you mean chunks from the top to the bottom of the world with "tower-chunk"?
14:33	smoke_fumus	that's still better than hardcoded 32x32x256
14:33	smoke_fumus	yeah
14:33	sfan5	also its limited by what you cpu can calculate
14:33	PilzAdam	!c 16 * 62000 * 16 * 4
14:33	MinetestBot	63Â 488Â 000
14:33	PilzAdam	!c 63Â 488Â 000 / 1024
14:33	MinetestBot	Sorry, no result.
14:33	smoke_fumus	in other words almost 65535
14:33	PilzAdam	!c 63488000 / 1024
14:33	MinetestBot	62Â 000
14:33	smoke_fumus	but only because you still using 32bit
14:34	sfan5	no...
14:34	smoke_fumus	technically yes
14:34	sfan5	..well yes
14:34	PilzAdam	!c 62000 / 1024
14:34	MinetestBot	60.546875
14:34	kaeza	62MB of data per second
14:34	PilzAdam	that would be 60 GiB per chunk
14:34	kaeza	err... chunk
14:34		arsdragonfly\|pho joined #minetest
14:34	smoke_fumus	65535 is an integer limit on 32bit. with 64bit arch it is...............holy shit that's a big number.
14:34	sfan5	PilzAdam: you calculated bytes / 1024 -> KB / 1024 -> MB not GB
14:34	PilzAdam	s/chunk/mapblock/g
14:34	PilzAdam	sfan5, oh, yea
14:34	sfan5	smoke_fumus: no, 65535 is 16bit
14:34	smoke_fumus	hurrr.
14:35	RealBadAngel	btw, lookin for some stuff today mornin i found script that generates l-system plant meshes
14:35	RealBadAngel	ie grass, flowers etc
14:36	VanessaE	wait, what about my server?
14:36	VanessaE	(sorry, had to step away to fix something in the theater)
14:36	* VanessaE	grumbles at her two cats
14:36	kaeza	VanessaE, I know that feel
14:36	* kaeza	has 5 cats
14:37	* smoke_fumus	smoking with amounts of smoke ~=steam engine's steam, so no cats
14:37	kaeza	here's one of 'em https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/picho.jpg
14:38	VanessaE	kahrl: my server has roughly 4MB of data to send to each client; the problem is the same one we've all been bitching about for months now (UDP is badly unsuited to the idea of sending bulk transfers like this)
14:38	smoke_fumus	kaeza: either your cam shaker or one of its eyes is slightly off-symmetry
14:38	smoke_fumus	*shaked
14:38	VanessaE	(for some reason, my cache is much larger than 4MB though)
14:38	PilzAdam	kaeza, you name your cat picho.jpg oO ?
14:38	kaeza	"Picho"
14:38	VanessaE	kaeza: aww
14:39	kahrl	VanessaE: the data actually transmitted fine, if slowly
14:39	smoke_fumus	ears are big :3 . how old is that cat?
14:39	codehero_	ah okay. so it's because of the new damage system. so i'll just have to wait
14:39	kahrl	but the mesh update thread wasn't running anymore so the client crashed
14:39	kaeza	(a misspell of "Bicho" ["Little Bug"] in spanish)
14:40	VanessaE	kaeza: ahh
14:40	VanessaE	kahrl: this happens A LOT
14:40	VanessaE	lots of people crash on connecting to my server, and others too apparently.
14:40	smoke_fumus	ok so, world is from -32k up to 32k. that's pretty big if you ask me. technically you can implement space sim and that would be enough to put into medium-sized planetoids
14:41	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: a bit less than +/- 31k actually
14:42	smoke_fumus	think for yourself. moon is 2240000 m in diameter
14:42	smoke_fumus	..........okay space sim with asteroids
14:42	PilzAdam	sfan5, new one in "Feature discussion"
14:43	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: I mean the MT world is
14:43	VanessaE	PilzAdam: already deleted both
14:43	smoke_fumus	i know. i'm just thinking what you can do with such huge height
14:43	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: some sort of low-earth-orbit moonlets might be interesting :)
14:43	smoke_fumus	ahem
14:43	smoke_fumus	that's unlikely
14:44	smoke_fumus	although wait
14:44	smoke_fumus	what's highest point of atmosphere again.
14:44	VanessaE	in real life? about 100km
14:44	smoke_fumus	as far as i remember it were a bit above 70km
14:44	VanessaE	LEO is..what..128km or something?
14:44	smoke_fumus	somewhere there
14:45	smoke_fumus	around that point anyway
14:45	smoke_fumus	although i believe its perlapsis is at 121 km
14:45	smoke_fumus	its hard to achieve trully circular orbit onto such low heights
14:46	smoke_fumus	hang on, what's leo again? sattelite/
14:46	smoke_fumus	?
14:46	smoke_fumus	...low earth orbit
14:46	smoke_fumus	damn
14:47	smoke_fumus	sorry, i just call it keo all the time, since i play kerbal space program alot
14:47	smoke_fumus	:D
14:47	VanessaE	LEO e.g the ISS, former space shuttle, etc. Most sats are in geosync orbit at 250km or further, i think
14:47	arsdragonfly\|pho	Is going beyond the +-32768 limit easy or not?
14:48	VanessaE	arsdragonfly\|pho: it's +/-31k-ish, and no I doubt it's particularly easy
14:48	smoke_fumus	technically speaking you need bigger variable
14:48	smoke_fumus	if you want to conserve height in 1
14:48	smoke_fumus	although you can just divide general height into multiple variables
14:49	vytautas	I did cmake . -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS="-march=native -mtune=native" and still get segfault
14:49	smoke_fumus	vytautas: awkward
14:49	smoke_fumus	oh well at least we know its nothing to do with specific hardware
14:50	vytautas	I got in gdb also: 0x4d77e508 in __strcmp_ssse3 () from /lib/libc.so.6
14:54	smoke_fumus	gdp is a debugger
14:54	smoke_fumus	*gdb
14:54	smoke_fumus	acronym for gnu debugger
14:55	smoke_fumus	let me see
14:55	vytautas	I know, crash is right after line main.cpp:1435
14:56	PilzAdam	seems like a irrlicht error
14:56	smoke_fumus	well look at it yourself lol - it directly states that it fails at device = createDeviceEx(params); meaning that you need to look at what createDeviceEx function does
14:57	vytautas	Oki I will try, but I am not good at C :)
14:57	smoke_fumus	that's C++
14:57	smoke_fumus	not C
14:57	smoke_fumus	it just uses some generic C function
14:57	smoke_fumus	and cross-search what is at libc at line 6
14:58	smoke_fumus	that will be hook at what variable it probably passes or how does it passes it
14:59	kahrl	you will probably need a debug build of irrlicht to dig deeper
14:59	smoke_fumus	^
14:59	smoke_fumus	true
15:01	smoke_fumus	i mean yes it is passes something to device variable
15:01	smoke_fumus	what kind of variable is that
15:01	smoke_fumus	i mean, is it some sturct? is it string? is it int?
15:02	smoke_fumus	vytautas: also hang on a second. do you use any additional params to launch minetest?
15:02	vytautas	no
15:02	kahrl	IrrlichtDevice *device;
15:02		MoNTE joined #minetest
15:02	smoke_fumus	i see
15:02	MoNTE	http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/
15:02	smoke_fumus	device pointer
15:02	MoNTE	dont work
15:02	kahrl	createDeviceEx is irr::createDeviceEx
15:03	Guest28556	http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/ don`t work
15:04	smoke_fumus	alright, who left fire near wiki sever again?
15:04		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
15:04	Guest28556	How to install on Ubuntu server Minetest
15:05	VanessaE	use the PPA
15:05	VanessaE	https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/daily-builds
15:05	celeron55	if these things hold true: [ 1) it happens inside irrlicht in some ssse3 string function, 2) your processor does not support ssse3 ], it may mean that the irrlicht your OS installed contains ssse3 instructions
15:05	Guest28556	Was simpler instructions. After installation, launch a nohup minetest - server &
15:06	Guest28556	This http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Setting_up_a_server/Ubuntu
15:06	celeron55	(it is possible to build irrlicht without using those, so that could be the next step i guess)
15:06	Guest28556	But it does not work, unfortunately, Why?
15:07	VanessaE	Guest28556: saying "it does not work" is not sufficient
15:07	VanessaE	we need logs and/or error messages (use a pastebin)
15:07	Guest28556	I do not know much English. :(
15:08	Guest28556	Ð’ÐµÐ±-ÑÑ‚Ñ€Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ†Ð° Ð½ÐµÐ´Ð¾ÑÑ‚ÑƒÐ¿Ð½Ð° Ð’ÐµÐ±-ÑÑ‚Ñ€Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ†Ð° Ð¿Ð¾ Ð°Ð´Ñ€ÐµÑÑƒ http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/, Ð²Ð¾Ð·Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶Ð½Ð¾, Ð²Ñ€ÐµÐ¼ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð¾ Ð½ÐµÐ´Ð¾ÑÑ‚ÑƒÐ¿Ð½Ð° Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ Ð¿ÐµÑ€ÐµÐ¼ÐµÑ‰ÐµÐ½Ð° Ð¿Ð¾ Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ð¼Ñƒ Ð°Ð´Ñ€ÐµÑÑƒ.
15:08	VanessaE	thexyz: I believe this is your domain? :)
15:08	Guest28556	I am speek on Russian language. Sorry me
15:11	smoke_fumus	mde. takogo koryavogo prompt-a ya eshe ne videl.
15:12	smoke_fumus	Guest28556: translate.google.ru
15:13	Guest28556	Ð¯ Ð¸Ð¼ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÐ·ÑƒÑŽÑÑŒ
15:13	Guest28556	ÐšÑ‚Ð¾-Ñ‚Ð¾ Ñ‚ÑƒÑ‚ Ð½Ð° Ñ€ÑƒÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ Ð¿Ð¾Ð½Ð¸Ð¼Ð°ÐµÑ‚?
15:13	Guest28556	translate.google.ru I use it. And someone on the Russian understands me?
15:13	smoke_fumus	nope
15:14	smoke_fumus	pishi translitom, duren'
15:14	Guest28556	This is bad ... Well, someone help me?
15:14	Guest28556	AAA. Ponyal
15:14	smoke_fumus	u servera kirilica ne stoit pravil'no
15:14	smoke_fumus	iiii v privat
15:14	Guest28556	I ne nado obzivat`sya
15:15	Guest28556	I perviy raz polyzyus` IRC
15:15	thexyz	VanessaE: you're terribly wrong
15:15	RealBadAngel	some can understand russian here...
15:15	thexyz	Guest28556: Ñ‡ÐµÐ³Ð¾ Ñ‚ÐµÐ±Ðµ?
15:15	smoke_fumus	xD
15:15	troller	Ð¿Ð¾Ñ…Ð¾Ð¶Ðµ Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñ‚Ñ€ÑÑÐµÑ‚
15:16	Guest28556	thexyz, Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ñƒ Ð²Ð¾Ð¹Ñ‚Ð¸ Ð½Ð° WIKI
15:16	VanessaE	thexyz: eh? "your domain" != "your website". I meant Russian was your area of expertise.
15:16	smoke_fumus	Guest28556: ÃÃ¥ Ã°Ã Ã¡Ã®Ã²Ã Ã¥Ã²
15:16	thexyz	Ð£ÐœÐ’Ð
15:16	smoke_fumus	ne rabotaet wiki
15:16	thexyz	VanessaE: oops
15:16	Guest28556	Ð˜ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑ‚Ð¾Ð¼Ñƒ Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ñƒ ÑƒÑÑ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð¸Ñ‚ÑŒ minetest. Ñ‚Ð°Ð¼ Ñ‚Ð°ÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ…Ð¾Ñ€Ð¾ÑˆÐ°Ñ Ð¸Ð½ÑÑ‚Ñ€ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ñ. Ð Ð²Ð¾Ñ‚ Ð½Ðµ ÑÐºÐ¾Ð¿Ð¸Ñ€Ð¾Ð²Ð°Ð» Ð² ÑÐ²Ð¾Ð¹ Ð¼Ð¸Ð½Ð¸-ÑÐ¿Ñ€Ð°Ð²Ð¾Ñ‡Ð½Ð¸Ðº
15:16	troller	nslookup wiki.minetest.com
15:17	PilzAdam	oh god, the russians take over...
15:17	Guest28556	Working. cheers
15:17	VanessaE	The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming! :-)
15:17	troller	Ð—Ð˜Ð¡ Ð˜Ð¡ Ð¡ÐŸÐÐÐÐ Ð¢ÐÐÐÐ°Ð°Ð°Ð!
15:18	celeron55	PilzAdam: just about time, after the germans trying to take over!
15:18	kaeza	In soviet #minetest, russian overtake you
15:18	bcnjr5	Russians are ok.
15:18	Guest28556	Everything. Uhozhu.V these things so far:(
15:18	celeron55	too bad i can't read either of these languages
15:18	celeron55	i need to start talking in finnish here
15:18	troller	better chinese
15:18	PilzAdam	so everyone just talk his native language now?
15:18		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
15:18	kaeza	espaÃ±ol! :D
15:19	smoke_fumus	VanessaE: also you were kinda wrong. geostationary orbit is at 35786 km
15:19	bcnjr5	k-ay i-ay ill-way!
15:19	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: eek, I was off by a couple orders of magnitude there huh ;)
15:19	smoke_fumus	i mean i though you were wrong but i were need to check that since i remember that to maintain 100km orbit you need to have at least 2.4 km/s speed
15:19	Guest28556	I would not mind to be if added Russian IRC, Wiki and website!
15:20	smoke_fumus	relatively to orbit
15:20	kahrl	tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'
15:20	smoke_fumus	*to earth
15:20	VanessaE	kahrl: no one here speaks Klingon :)
15:20	bcnjr5	thank god XD
15:20	smoke_fumus	that 'wasn't klingon as i can understand
15:20	thexyz	Guest28556: minetest.ru
15:20	smoke_fumus	sounded more like Hutt lingo
15:20	VanessaE	haha
15:20	smoke_fumus	xD
15:21	smoke_fumus	kahrl: are you a Hutt?
15:21	celeron55	2.4km/s sounds just about right for a generic orbit speed (/me has played just about enough kerbal space program...)
15:21	smoke_fumus	celeron55: same :D
15:22	kahrl	H'chu apenkee!
15:23	* smoke_fumus	scratching head
15:24	Puffee_Azalus	huh-huh-huh
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15:37	kaeza	there's enough content to write a book: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5774
15:38	vytautas	I installed some debuginfos now I get: __strcmp_ssse3 () at ../sysdeps/i386/i686/multiarch/strcmp-ssse3.S:228
15:38	PilzAdam	its a good topic to busy trolls
15:38	vytautas	228 movzbl (%eax), %ecx
15:38		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
15:38	PilzAdam	so they dont troll in the important sections
15:38	VanessaE	I've been considering closing that damn topic
15:39	kaeza	let them be. It's amusing
15:39	kaeza	at least they're not trying to kill each other... for now...
15:41	VanessaE	heh
15:41	* PilzAdam	noticed that 2 members from the top 50 (#posts) are banned
15:44	VanessaE	we need to fix this problem of people ragequitting and/or asking to be banned
15:44	VanessaE	wtf is going on that is pissing people off?
15:44	kaeza	dunno
15:44	PilzAdam	that other people are pissed off
15:44	Calinou	we don't have underpowered enchanting like minecraft does, probably
15:44	smoke_fumus	kaeza: yea, all religions are peaceful, untill some insecure reatrds will try acquit their actions with religion
15:44	kaeza	they expose some valid arguments
15:44	Calinou	this is a game that has 12yo kids as average audience, pretty normal
15:44	kaeza	but don't bother to come here and discuss things calmly
15:45	VanessaE	Calinou: maybe, but these aren't 12 year olds who are quitting
15:45	smoke_fumus	let them
15:45	smoke_fumus	just let them
15:45	smoke_fumus	12 years olds shouldn't be even permitted to roam majority of internet
15:46	kaeza	^
15:46	smoke_fumus	lock them in copy of facebook but without external links. that should do it.
15:46	kaeza	(at least not accompanied by a parent/tutor)
15:46	smoke_fumus	^
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15:48	VanessaE	heh
15:48	smoke_fumus	you know, speaking of which, from one side i am all for inculding IQ test to let user into internet, from another- dumb users == human herd==loads of money to harvest from their pockets
15:48		markveidemanis joined #minetest
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15:49	VanessaE	money to harvest? the internet was never supposed to be about money
15:49	* VanessaE	grumbles loudly.
15:49	* PilzAdam	votes to ban markveidemanis beceause of this join spam ^
15:49	Calinou	VanessaE: most of them, yes
15:49	celeron55	there isn't that much of markveidemanis join spam
15:50	celeron55	even i do more join spam
15:50	PilzAdam	he changes his host 2 times when he joins, wich makes 10 lines in my client
15:51	celeron55	i guess you should warn him at first at least though
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15:51	smoke_fumus	VanessaE: it wasn't. but now it is also include such thing as 'idiots with visa, bank accounts and paypal who are willing to give their money for stupid shit'.
15:52	smoke_fumus	1. create stupid shit. 2. attract idiots 3. ... 4. PROFIT.
15:54	rubenwardy	hi all
15:54	smoke_fumus	i might put term a bit differently - lowest common denominator-type of individum who don't know any better
15:55	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, that reminds me... celeron55, do we want to create the "buy" page again?
15:55	smoke_fumus	xD
15:57	smoke_fumus	PilzAdam: you see the idea. its not nescessary should be stupid shit. coffee cups, t-shirts and rest of misc items to financially support open project also apply. i mean who wouldn't bought t-shirt with words 'Voxel hipster, plays minetest because minecraft is too mainstream'? xD just out of self-irony
15:57	kahrl	in the bought version, you get 10 nyancat rainbows for free!
15:57	kaeza	:D
15:58	PilzAdam	smoke_fumus, the old website had a buy.php subpage where you could buy some old maps from c55
15:58	VanessaE	kahrl: oh sure, draw the ire of that schmuck who claims ownership of the nyan cat :)
15:58	smoke_fumus	side content and physical vanity items are quickest way to make a buck on something
15:59	kaeza	</almostlamefun>
15:59	smoke_fumus	VanessaE: pull out the doom2 and make payed version to include minecraft steeve's head on a stick?
15:59	smoke_fumus	:D
15:59	VanessaE	haha
16:00	kaeza	has anyone a good 128px render of the minetest logo?
16:00	VanessaE	kaeza: there's an svg of it in the misc folder.
16:00	Calinou	kaeza: GIMP
16:01	kaeza	VanessaE, didn't notice that :\|
16:01	kaeza	Calinou, fuck no
16:01	PilzAdam	kaeza, fuck yea
16:01	VanessaE	The GIMP Is Your Friendâ„¢
16:02	smoke_fumus	the photoshop Â© is your friend. the gimp is atrocious
16:02	PilzAdam	lol
16:02	VanessaE	blasphemer!
16:02	Calinou	lol, PS fanboy
16:02	PilzAdam	my dictionary has a translation of "gimp" to "gimpe"
16:02	PilzAdam	I have no idea what that means
16:02	VanessaE	he's a witch! burn him!
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16:02	smoke_fumus	a guy can't be a witch
16:02	smoke_fumus	warlock
16:02	kaeza	>he >witch
16:02	kaeza	wut
16:03	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: according to Star Trek mythos, yes they can be :)
16:03	VanessaE	(damned if I can remember the name of the episode)
16:03	smoke_fumus	according to common sense witch is a locked female noun
16:03	smoke_fumus	i would've loved gimp if it had ability to consolidate all those ugly outside panels into tab-columns like photoshop
16:03	smoke_fumus	since it doesn't - screw it
16:04	kaeza	ehm...
16:04	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: then why can guys practice witchcraft? Would it be warcraft then? ;)
16:04	kaeza	GIMP 2.8?
16:04	celeron55	there's a 120px render on the old site; i tend to use it when i quickly need a png of the logo: http://c55.me/minetest2/images/minetest-icon-120.png
16:04	Calinou	2.8.2 ftw
16:04	celeron55	120, not 128, though
16:04	smoke_fumus	VanessaE: witchcraft == magic
16:04	* rubenwardy	working on YAMM
16:04	VanessaE	gah! way to just destroy a joke
16:04	PilzAdam	rubenwardy, how is it going
16:04	Calinou	you are minetest mugs?
16:04	smoke_fumus	rubenwardy: ya mother mighty - she's so fat?
16:05	VanessaE	rubenwardy: doing what, this time? :)
16:05	rubenwardy	Yet Another Mob Mod
16:05	VanessaE	smoke_fumus: Yet Another Minetest Mod
16:05	smoke_fumus	:D
16:05	Calinou	yet another quake shooter
16:05	VanessaE	oh, well three out of four ain't bad ;)
16:05	smoke_fumus	yet another doom clone
16:05	smoke_fumus	:D
16:06	kaeza	smoke_fumus, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_doomtest.jpg
16:06	* rubenwardy	time for some Bon Jovi + David Bowie
16:06	smoke_fumus	EEP
16:06	rubenwardy	cool, kaeza
16:07	* smoke_fumus	time for some KMFDM + jpop
16:07	* smoke_fumus	+ vgm
16:07	kaeza	rubenwardy, note: It's not 'shopped (or gimped)
16:08	VanessaE	time for some relaxing quiet here :)
16:08	rubenwardy	yeah
16:08	smoke_fumus	kaeza: i noticed. pixels are awfully centered. in photoshop shotgun would've been 1 pixel left
16:09	kaeza	rubenwardy, you may also like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48JRBniUJyY
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16:10	BlockMen	hi
16:11	markveidemanis	Can someone make a missile mod?
16:11	smoke_fumus	do it yourself
16:11	markveidemanis	I will do the textures
16:12	markveidemanis	and all the shit except lua
16:12	smoke_fumus	including lua
16:12	VanessaE	learn to code
16:12	smoke_fumus	^
16:12	VanessaE	it is not that hard
16:12	smoke_fumus	definitely easy
16:13	BlockMen	has someone a copy of jordan4ibanez's slimes mod?
16:13	rubenwardy	does automatic_rotate in an entity make it automatically point the direction it is going?
16:13	markveidemanis	I can make a mod, i just dont know how to calculate the trajectory of the missile going to the ground and the inclination from centre when going into the trajectory
16:13	VanessaE	thexyz, celeron55, can one of you go through and undo jordan4ibanez's blanked posts?
16:13	VanessaE	this shit is getting old.
16:14	celeron55	rubenwardy: it makes an entity rotate continuously
16:14	rubenwardy	oh
16:14	smoke_fumus	markveidemanis: gravity pull against propel timer
16:14	rubenwardy	physical = true, ?
16:14	celeron55	rubenwardy: it's used for node items
16:14	markveidemanis	I can make the object and add the entity, someone else will have to make it blow up/move
16:14	celeron55	rubenwardy: nothing makes an entity point automatically where it is going
16:14	rubenwardy	I thought as much
16:14	PilzAdam	there is a pull request for this
16:15	kaeza	markveidemanis, use my firearmslib framework
16:15	smoke_fumus	markveidemanis: will you stop crying that you can't?
16:15	smoke_fumus	learn. understand. implement.
16:15	kaeza	it has a grenade launcher and a bazooka
16:15	markveidemanis	I know, treat the missile rocket as an item thrown in the air
16:15	smoke_fumus	treat the missle like a physical object
16:15	markveidemanis	first things first
16:15	markveidemanis	Nodebox
16:16	markveidemanis	Anyone know any good programs?
16:16	celeron55	VanessaE: i guess thexyz will prefer changing the forum software instead of messing with stuff like that; i haven't heard how his testing of the some other software worked
16:16	kaeza	wut
16:16	VanessaE	celeron55: fair enough I guess
16:17	kaeza	also, j4i's stuff is -ND
16:17	markveidemanis	I need a program to make a modebox
16:17	PilzAdam	not everything
16:17	celeron55	thexyz: did the thing have some flaws that keep you from deploying it? or does it seem like it will have terrible enough compatibility for now to not be wroth it?=
16:17	celeron55	-=
16:17	VanessaE	just fucking code it, markveidemanis.
16:17	PilzAdam	markveidemanis, a text editor is enough
16:18	markveidemanis	i dont know how it works
16:18	VanessaE	then LEARN
16:18	markveidemanis	just recommend a program
16:18	kahrl	vim
16:19	* VanessaE	restrains from /kick
16:19	rubenwardy	markveidemanis: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2840
16:19	BlockMen	kaeza, "-ND"?
16:19	VanessaE	No Derivs
16:19	rubenwardy	If you want an editor
16:19	kaeza	BlockMen, "No Derivatives"
16:19	VanessaE	rubenwardy: he needs to learn to understand what he is doing before he uses your tool
16:19	rubenwardy	ok
16:20	kaeza	BlockMen, it means you can't edit it (roughly speaking)
16:20	BlockMen	kaeza, was just looking up -> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/
16:20	BlockMen	and thx ;)
16:21	VanessaE	kaeza: it means you can edit and distribute the result
16:21	Calinou	noone uses BY-ND but the FSF, you're looking at BY-NC-ND :P
16:21	VanessaE	which is fucking stupid of course.
16:21	Calinou	but these are the same, except about commercial use
16:21	thexyz	celeron55: we still haven't decided what to use
16:22	thexyz	we also need a list of required features punbb lacks
16:22	kaeza	^ global RSS feed
16:23	markveidemanis	the nodebox editor doesnt work
16:23	PilzAdam	markveidemanis, then dont use it
16:23	markveidemanis	http://pastie.org/7813916
16:23	PilzAdam	you really dont need it
16:24	rubenwardy	nothing helpfull there
16:24	rubenwardy	just the fact that the scale icon is not loaded
16:24	markveidemanis	Then what else would you recommend
16:24	rubenwardy	text editor
16:24	PilzAdam	vim
16:24	VanessaE	that you learn to code.
16:24	rubenwardy	0,0,0 is center of node
16:24	rubenwardy	-5,-5,-5 is bottom left front corner
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16:24	VanessaE	you mean -0.5
16:24	rubenwardy	5,5,5 is top right back corner
16:25	rubenwardy	oh sorry
16:25	markveidemanis	it works now
16:25	rubenwardy	-0.5,-0.5,-0.5 is bottom left front corner
16:25	rubenwardy	0.5,0.5,0.5 is top right back corner
16:25	markveidemanis	copied the images to home
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16:26	thexyz	also, I really need to disable "delete" button
16:27	rubenwardy	is on_activate in register_entity called when the entity is spawned/added
16:27	thexyz	hm, someone has finally banned 4aiman
16:27	PilzAdam	<thexyz> also, I really need to disable "delete" button <- what about accidentally double post?
16:27	PilzAdam	(that happens sometimes)
16:27	VanessaE	not me, I refused his demands.
16:28	PilzAdam	sfan5 tmp banned him IIRC
16:28	thexyz	i see
16:28	thexyz	1 day
16:29	Jordach	who got banned?
16:29	thexyz	rubenwardy: http://dev.minetest.net/LuaEntitySAO
16:29	rubenwardy	thanks
16:32	rubenwardy	oh dear
16:32	Jordach	hm?
16:32	rubenwardy	>> minetest.exe has stopped working
16:32		TheLastProject joined #minetest
16:32		Kray joined #minetest
16:33	rubenwardy	>> The application was unable to start correctly (0xc0000005). Click ok to close the application
16:33	BlockMen	rubenwardy, hat same issue yesterday. no minetest.exe was able to run until restarting windows
16:33	rubenwardy	every time I open it
16:33	rubenwardy	great
16:33	rubenwardy	brb
16:33		rubenwardy left #minetest
16:34	BlockMen	but in my opinion its a windows thing...
16:35	Jordach	that looks like a irrlicht bug
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16:40	Jordach	kaeza, your register is almost done
16:40	kaeza	Jordach, great! :D
16:40	Jordach	kaeza, i've been out all day
16:41	Jordach	and i have a new decorative item to make
16:41	VanessaE	bbl
16:42	* rubenwardy	wishes minetest.find_path accepted a table
16:42		john_minetest joined #minetest
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16:43	rubenwardy	what is algorithm in find_path? (sapier)
16:43	rubenwardy	or anyone
16:44	rubenwardy	a string?
16:44	PilzAdam	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1281
16:45	rubenwardy	...
16:45	rubenwardy	not help full
16:45	rubenwardy	Is it a string, or some sort of value?
16:45	rubenwardy	is it required?
16:46		Calinou joined #minetest
16:47	rubenwardy	nevermind
16:49	kaeza	bbl
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16:55	celeron55	rubenwardy: so it is a string? i hate it when people add strings to the documentation without quotation
16:55	rubenwardy	no idea
16:55	celeron55	i would quess it is a string
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17:04	rubenwardy	does entity.getpos() require :
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17:10	Jordach	and im now annoyed
17:10	Jordach	internet explorer ad
17:10	Exio	kill it with fire
17:11	Jordach	yeah!
17:12	Jordach	anyways
17:12	Jordach	finished the cash register
17:16		rubenwardy left #minetest
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17:22	Jordach	anyone wanna use my atms?
17:23	rubenwardy	"invalid startposIndex: (5,7,6)Realpos: (74,13,-611)"
17:23	rubenwardy	when using minetest.env:find_path
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17:29	markveidemanis	hi
17:29	markveidemanis	hows progress going, ruben?
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17:33	Jordach	rubenwardy, http://imgur.com/a/JiPhm
17:33	rubenwardy	cool
17:34	Jordach	and why was 4aiman banned?
17:35	rubenwardy	reques
17:35	rubenwardy	t
17:36	rubenwardy	grr
17:36	rubenwardy	path finding does not work
17:37	Jordach	yes rubenwardy
17:38	rubenwardy	what do you mean yes?
17:38	Jordach	<rubenwardy> t
17:38	Jordach	<rubenwardy> grr
17:38	Jordach	<rubenwardy> reques
17:38	Jordach	<rubenwardy> t*
17:38	markveidemanis	grrr
17:38	rubenwardy	tiger
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17:42	rubenwardy	that is stupid
17:42	rubenwardy	according to the cpp code, that error is from when it tries to get a node: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/pathfinder.cpp#L598
17:43	rubenwardy	but that node DOES exist
17:43	Jordach	is the node loaded?
17:43	rubenwardy	it is
17:44	* rubenwardy	kicks sapier
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18:29	BlockMen	are caves perlin noise generated?
18:34	rubenwardy	Yay! Gravity works in YAMM
18:34	rubenwardy	!
18:41	hmmmm	they are not
18:44	Jordach	Yet Another Minetest Mod <- rubenwardy
18:44	rubenwardy	Yet Another Mob Mod
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18:54	rubenwardy	grazing module done
18:54	rubenwardy	just watch the dungeon master eating grass
18:56	BlockMen	hmmmm, ok. is it defined in map.ccp?
19:00	BlockMen	ok, am i missing something or is that perlin noise? -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen_indev.cpp#L258
19:02	BlockMen	nvm -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/cavegen.cpp
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19:05	rubenwardy	an example of what YAMM will look like code wise: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/c36919f9f696a34666c2
19:05	rubenwardy	that code all works
19:06	rubenwardy	YAMM stands for Yet Another Mob Mod
19:07	rubenwardy	it is quite light weight
19:08	rubenwardy	bye all
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19:10	* RealBadAngel	is also off: Game of Thrones s03e06
19:10	iqualfragile	:D
19:14	* BlockMen	also leaves
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19:28	celeron55	thexyz: the reason why people empty teir posts is because the delete button is disabled 8)
19:28	[0gb_us]	Good point.
19:30	thexyz	the problem is that some moderators tend to remove posts/topics instead of moving them into trash
19:30	celeron55	ehm
19:30	[0gb_us]	So it needs to be enabled for users but not for staff, maybe.
19:30	celeron55	teach that to the moderators
19:30	celeron55	Calinou? sfan5?
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19:31	celeron55	moderators that do not do stuff like they should are useless, make them not moderators or tell them what they have to do
19:31	Calinou	if it's complete crap/spam, I delete
19:31	Calinou	else, I move
19:31	celeron55	VanessaE?
19:31	Calinou	should we keep spam too? ._.
19:32	celeron55	we could disable editing posts, but that wouldn't work either
19:33	celeron55	ideally we'd have wiki-like history for first posts, and would disable editing of replies 8)
19:33	Calinou	WTF: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88793#p88793
19:33	celeron55	(after a while so that corrections can be made)
19:33	Calinou	disabling editing posts would make it impossible for modders to edit their mod topics
19:33	celeron55	read what i said
19:34	Calinou	ah
19:34	NakedFury	make full post edits need to be approved by mods?
19:34	NakedFury	so we wont have edit deleters
19:35		sapier joined #minetest
19:35	celeron55	no need for approval; just history so that they can be reverted just like in wikis
19:35	celeron55	but doing that in punbb isn't really possible
19:36		monkeycoder joined #minetest
19:41	[0gb_us]	I wonder if anyone has a forum/wiki hybrid already. I know it could be done.
19:42	sapier	I'm against disabling editing posts ... I often use my last post to add additional information while no other ppl have answered to it
19:42	Calinou	it would only be disabled say, 1 hour after posting
19:43	sdzen	that makes no sense....
19:43	sdzen	an hour wouldnt make any difference
19:43	sdzen	might as well keep it as it is
19:44	kahrl	Calinou: why WTF? it's a spam post
19:45	Calinou	well yeah, it's adveritisng pretty much
19:45		FreeFull joined #minetest
19:45	Calinou	and their email looks like spam
19:45		whirm joined #minetest
19:45	kahrl	looks automated or at least semiautomated to me
19:46		whirm joined #minetest
19:46	[0gb_us]	Some people think my email address looks like spam too though.
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19:48	sapier	I've seen forums where spam posts just where hidden or at least compacted to a single line
19:48	sapier	don't know if our forum system supports this
19:48	NakedFury	http://www.wikidforum.com/
19:48	NakedFury	a wiki forum hybrid
19:48	NakedFury	WikidForum is a PHP based, Free, Open Source Forum Software
19:49	NakedFury	havent completely checked it out. doing it now
19:49	Calinou	sapier, if you want to hide spam posts automagically, better delete em, but the question is, how to detect them :P
19:50	sapier	you can't at least not 100%
19:50	Jordach	spam bots often repeat themselves
19:50	Jordach	when theyre posting
19:51	sdzen	have the forum delete duplicates and leave only 1 post left?
19:51	sdzen	(leaving 1 in case someone accidentally double posted)
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19:52	Calinou	it'd be nice if people having 0 posts for 1 month have their account deleted
19:52	Calinou	this clogs up the user list a lot
19:53	ShadowNinja	Calinou: Agreed, but perhaps a little more lenient.
19:53	sdzen	after all, one of your moderators has 0 posts
19:53	Calinou	vohveli? :D
19:53	sdzen	indeed
19:53	Calinou	he's half-moderator, he isn't moderator on any forums but has moderator rank
19:53	ShadowNinja	Only if they have say < 10 posts
19:54	sdzen	though, that might upset lurkers
19:54	celeron55	Calinou: hmm, better clear that status; someone might find out the abandoned password and get in or something
19:55	sdzen	after all, not all people who don't post are inactive
19:55	celeron55	done
19:56	sdzen	after all, they might sign up to subscribe to topics
19:56	sdzen	or to make it easier to see new posts
19:56	celeron55	sdzen: well, obviously the activity checker should check those too
19:56		Warr1024 joined #minetest
19:57	sdzen	yes, obviously :)
19:57	celeron55	a spam bot won't login many times during a long time period
20:02	* [0gb_us]	is out.
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20:59	STHGOM	hi
20:59	STHGOM	:D
21:10	Calinou	hi
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21:31	STHGOM	bye all
21:51		messa4 joined #minetest
21:51	messa4	yo
21:51	messa4	its me
21:51	messa4	im on server. but i forgot whats my username
21:51	messa4	hans i think
21:51	messa4	anyway
21:51	messa4	i have questions
21:52	messa4	i started the game in some HUGE city. a lot of buildings and stuff - WHERE I CAN BUILD MY OWN STUFF? in which direction i should go
21:54		messa4 left #minetest
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21:55	ShadowNinja	VanessaE: Should you still be oped? And as for the why Arch question: I wanted a basic rolling distribution with the AUR.
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23:13	new-minetest-use	hi
23:13	new-minetest-use	i have a problem with minetest graphics
23:14	new-minetest-use	its fine in the menu part
23:14	new-minetest-use	but not the actual gameplay
23:15	new-minetest-use	everything is shown in the lower lefthand corner - instead of filling the whole window
23:15	new-minetest-use	help?
23:16	iqualfragile1	new-minetest-use: first make shure you actualy have the newest driver for your grapichs cards
23:16	iqualfragile1	then send us a screen shot
23:17	new-minetest-use	i'm using opensuse 12.3 if that's any help
23:17	new-minetest-use	on an older laptop
23:17	new-minetest-use	so i don't know about graphics cards sorry
23:18	PilzAdam	new-minetest-use, try resizing the window
23:19	new-minetest-use	ok
23:19	new-minetest-use	i'll get back later
23:19	new-minetest-use	:)
23:19	new-minetest-use	thanks for your time
23:19	iqualfragile1	if you enter lspci into an console there will be a line containing vga compatible adapter
23:48	VanessaE	hi all.
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