IRC log for #minetest, 2013-05-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
00:08	PilzAdam	bye
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01:17	Kacey	some people should be thankful that i am afraid to go to prison..
01:17	VanessaE	why?
01:18		celeron55_ joined #minetest
01:18	Kacey	if i wasnt, i would be there right now
01:18	VanessaE	where?
01:18	Kacey	jail
01:19	VanessaE	well duh :)
01:19	VanessaE	but I meant why, as in what would you do that would send you there?
01:20	NakedFury	kill
01:21	VanessaE	*facepalm*
01:21	Kacey	it would be easier to name things that i wouldnt do to everyone at school
01:21	VanessaE	oh.  school.
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01:48	Kacey	The next person to treat me like a doormat is going to get treated like a damn piñata!
02:01		Nekofire524 joined #minetest
02:02	Nekofire524	sup
02:02	VanessaE	hi
02:05	Nekofire524	how are you
02:06	VanessaE	doing ok
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02:06	Nekofire524	thats good the mod irc is really quiet today lol
02:07	VanessaE	this channel is where most chat takes place, but even here, this time of the day is always quiet
02:09	Nekofire524	when is it most active
02:09	VanessaE	it varies
02:10	VanessaE	but typically between about 7am and 8pm eastern time
02:10	Nekofire524	ah
02:21	ShadowNinja	I need libz.so to compile on arch, does anyone know the package name?
02:24	ShadowNinja	zlib, but that is installed...
02:24	VanessaE	no clue really
02:25	VanessaE	bbl
02:26	ShadowNinja	Well if anyone knows: make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so', needed by `bin/minetestserver'.  Stop.
02:26	hmmmm	zlib is usually a standard part of your distribution...
02:26	ShadowNinja	hmmmm: Yes, it was installed.
02:27	khonkhortisan	is it in /usr/lib64?
02:28	ShadowNinja	khonkhortisan: Yes.
02:28		BrandonReese joined #minetest
02:29	ShadowNinja	How do I get it to look there?
02:29	khonkhortisan	The wrong answer is ln
02:30	ShadowNinja	Well I guessed that...
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02:33	Jordach	my plan for sleeping went out of the window :(
03:01	ShadowNinja	Is the source code for irc.minetest.ru available?
03:14	khonkhortisan	I can see over drop-ceiling tiles when using glass walls
03:16	ShadowNinja	So ln it is then, unless someone has a better idea.
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03:25	ShadowNinja	Does anyone here use Minetest on Arch Linux?
03:32	NakedFury	on windows
03:34	ShadowNinja	Menche, Jeija, jordan4ibanez, Zeg9...
03:37	ShadowNinja	All but Jeija have been around within the last few days.
03:43	Jordach	yeah
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04:02	Jordach	huh
04:03	Jordach	i'm seriously considering using MikuMikuDance on the Minetest model
04:05	Jordach	actually
04:05	Jordach	idea
04:05	Jordach	hmm...
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04:28	Jordach	muahahahaha
04:39	Jordach	my boredom levels are epic http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88903#p88903
04:40	ShadowNinja	Kray: Maybe you could help?
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05:02	ShadowNinja	Oh, messed up the sasl auth :-(
05:06	ShadowNinja	Well someone will need to op it after all. sfan5, VanessaE?
05:09		ungali_mobile joined #minetest
05:29	sfan5	!op ShadowBot
05:29	sfan5	ShadowNinja: done
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05:54	Jordach	morning sfan5
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07:12	kahrl	ShadowNinja: one reason why the setuid might not have worked is if the filesystem is mounted with nosuid
07:12		qznc__ joined #minetest
07:24		smoke_fumus joined #minetest
07:29		RealBadAngel joined #minetest
07:31	celeron55_	that's a good catch
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08:19	kahrl	how can I configure github to show precise dates instead of wishy washy stuff like "3 months ago"?
08:19	kahrl	when looking at comments of pull requests for example
08:21	kahrl	I don't think it's possible, yuck
08:21	ruskie	talk to github about that
08:21	kahrl	who the hell designed that
08:21	ruskie	or you know do a clone of the repo and just look at the git log
08:22	ruskie	github isn't really all that special
08:22	ruskie	more or less just annoying
08:22	kahrl	well pull request comments in particular don't show in the git log
08:22	ruskie	as said annoying
08:23	ruskie	they're trying to push their idea of a workflow in there
08:23	kahrl	so a workflow means I can't follow past conversations? :|
08:24	VanessaE	http://projects.skurfer.com/posts/2012/timestamps/
08:24	VanessaE	is this of any use, kahrl ?
08:24	VanessaE	eh, fuck.  that's for safari.
08:25	kahrl	ooh, could be useful anyway
08:25	VanessaE	(I find the fuzzy timestamps to be fucking annoying also)
08:25	kahrl	I didn't know the precise timestamps were sent in the HTML, assumed they just sent the fuzzy ones
08:26	VanessaE	this might be a job for greasemonkey then
08:27	VanessaE	http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/76422
08:27	VanessaE	bingo
08:27	VanessaE	"Change time format from "n days ago" to weekday + HH:MM:SS ISO time by clicking them (github time in parenthesis)."
08:28	VanessaE	(I note the last modified date is pretty old)
08:29	kahrl	I just edited the chrome/userContent.css in my firefox profile
08:29	kahrl	that worked too
08:29	VanessaE	col
08:29	VanessaE	cool
08:30	kahrl	for reference: http://codepad.org/AJKywcjn
08:32	celeron55_	it's common practice these days to do date and other formatting on client side
08:33	celeron55_	saves resources on the server and automatically gets the correct time zone
08:35	VanessaE	kahrl: oh that is SO much better.  ph33r my g00gl3-fu ;)
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09:21	VanessaE	jeez, is everyone using centurylink or something? :)
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09:41		PilzAdam joined #minetest
09:44	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
09:44	VanessaE	hey
09:48	Zeg9	Hi
09:56	PilzAdam	thexyz, why does the minetest forum now include scripts from xyz.is ?
09:57		Infinity_69 joined #minetest
09:57		kaeza joined #minetest
09:57	Infinity_69	hi
09:57	kaeza	hi all
09:57	VanessaE	hi
09:57	Infinity_69	hi
09:57	kaeza	hi
09:58	Zeg9	Hello kaeza
09:59	kaeza	another post full of GNU zealotry on the forums -.-
10:00	thexyz	PilzAdam: traffic stats
10:00	PilzAdam	I block it then >:-)
10:06	Infinity_69	PilzAdam, im working on a mod and i need help...
10:06	Infinity_69	with the functions...
10:06	Infinity_69	can you help me?
10:06	Infinity_69	please
10:06	Infinity_69	=)
10:07	kahrl	Infinity_69: just post the question here
10:07	Infinity_69	there are a lot of questions and i dont want to flood :/
10:07	Infinity_69	but ok...
10:07	VanessaE	post them on the forum and give us a link then
10:08	PilzAdam	if you have a lot of questions a tutorial about programming will most likely help you
10:08	Infinity_69	...
10:09	Infinity_69	how do i make a flaming bottle of Molotov be throwable and if it touches grow
10:09	Infinity_69	... ground it will explode
10:09	Infinity_69	sorry, i pressed enter too early...
10:09		blaze joined #minetest
10:09	kaeza	look at throwing mod
10:09	Infinity_69	ok
10:10	kaeza	actually, umm..
10:10	kaeza	look at firearms
10:10	Infinity_69	!g minetest firearms
10:10	MinetestBot	Infinity_69: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4562
10:10	Infinity_69	lol
10:10	kaeza	it has a somewhat easy framework
10:11	kaeza	or just copy the relevant code
10:12	Infinity_69	ugh...can you just search the lines or give me the code?
10:12	Infinity_69	there are SO many files...
10:12	Infinity_69	o.o
10:14	VanessaE	THAT is "so many files"?
10:14	* VanessaE	mumbles something about a home decoration mod she wrote...
10:15		LunaVorax joined #minetest
10:16	PilzAdam	that is a moderate amount of files: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/src
10:16	VanessaE	now THAT qualifies as "so many files". :)
10:17		Infinity_69_ joined #minetest
10:17	Infinity_69_	/nick Infinity_69
10:18	Infinity_69	i hate you PilzAdam!
10:21	PilzAdam	:D
10:21	Infinity_69	-.-
10:21	Infinity_69	srsly, i crashed!
10:22		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
10:23	Infinity_69	yo PilzAdam what is the method of giving a player some privs?
10:23	kaeza	too many files? http://sourceforge.net/p/fbc/code/ci/master/tree/
10:23	PilzAdam	/grants <playername> <priv>
10:24	PilzAdam	-s
10:24	Infinity_69	no, in the Lua API
10:24	Infinity_69	minetest.set_player_privs?
10:24	PilzAdam	look in builting/chatcommands.lua
10:24	PilzAdam	-g
10:25	Infinity_69	im making a mod
10:25	Infinity_69	[TOP SECRET]
10:25	Infinity_69	how do i register a priv?
10:26	Infinity_69	found it
10:26	PilzAdam	look in builtin/privileges.lua
10:28		q66 joined #minetest
10:36	Infinity_69	PilzAdam can you help me a little bit?
10:36	Infinity_69	how do i make an if statement?
10:36	Infinity_69	=)
10:37	Infinity_69	just kidding...
10:38	Infinity_69	i know that...
10:38	kaeza	lua.org/pil/ :)
10:38	Infinity_69	but how do i check if player who joins has a priv like Admin
10:38	kaeza	if (minetest.check_player_privs("me", {Admin=true}) then
10:38	Infinity_69	"me"?
10:38	Infinity_69	what does that mean
10:39	kaeza	the player name
10:39	Infinity_69	oh
10:39	kaeza	if (minetest.check_player_privs("Ragnar", {Admin=true}) then
10:39	kaeza	(obviously, you would gety the name from somewhere)
10:39	kaeza	-y
10:40	Infinity_69	minetest.chat_send_all("Owner, PlayerName joined the game ")
10:40	Infinity_69	how do i get the PlayerName
10:40	kaeza	ehm...
10:42	Infinity_69	got it
10:42	Infinity_69	player.get_player_name()
10:42	kaeza	nope
10:42	Infinity_69	wut?
10:42	Infinity_69	o.o
10:42	kaeza	player:get_player_name()
10:42	Infinity_69	then how
10:42	Infinity_69	oh
10:42	Infinity_69	:D
10:42		Infinity_69 was kicked by ShadowBot: message flood detected
10:42		Infinity_69 joined #minetest
10:42	kaeza	lol
10:43	Infinity_69	somebody -o ShadowBot
10:43	VanessaE	no way
10:43	VanessaE	that bot is doing its job.
10:43	Infinity_69	whos bot is it anyways
10:43	Zeg9	Guess it...
10:43	Infinity_69	yours?
10:43	Infinity_69	o.o
10:43	Zeg9	...
10:44	VanessaE	note to self:  have the bot's owner lower the threshold for Infinity_69 so his messages trip it = kick sooner ;)
10:45		cisoun joined #minetest
10:47	VanessaE	hey cisoun.
10:48	cisoun	hey myself !
10:48	cisoun	I mean, hey VanessaE
10:48	VanessaE	heh
10:49		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
10:49	VanessaE	cisoun: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2005052013%20-%2009:51:55%20PM.png
10:50	VanessaE	inspired by one you posted on the screenshots thread a while back
10:50	cisoun	Yeah I saw that yesterday. I like it. :)
10:51	VanessaE	I'd produce a version displayed with standard textures, but like a moron, I deleted that world already :-/
10:51	arsdragonfly	what's the stuff at the bottom left corner?
10:51	Infinity_69	kaeza, VanessaE, PilzAdam: i need somebody to find the error...
10:51	Infinity_69	http://ompldr.org/vaWNocQ/MT_Lua_Error_#1
10:51	VanessaE	something like that ^^ or yours should be the default.
10:51	VanessaE	arsdragonfly: those are the game filter buttons
10:52	PilzAdam	Infinity_69, found it
10:52	Infinity_69	rlly?
10:52	Infinity_69	where, what :)
10:52	VanessaE	you didn't say you wanted him to actually tell you what the error was
10:52	PilzAdam	you have to find it yourself
10:52	VanessaE	merely that he should find it
10:53	PilzAdam	otherwise you will ask us everytime
10:53	kaeza	so many errors...
10:53	cisoun	But I'm thinking these backgrounds are not that good. The game should just show a PNG file at the middle of the window and at the front with a real world behind in the main menu.
10:53	cisoun	I don't really like the stretching picture.
10:53	Infinity_69	>:'(
10:53		Taoki[laptop] joined #minetest
10:53	arsdragonfly	Infinity_69 :mismatching parentheses @ ln25?
10:54	Infinity_69	what?
10:55	Infinity_69	minetest.chat_send_all("Owner, " player:get_player_name() " joined the game!") <!-- Whats wrong there?
10:55	VanessaE	you forgot concat the strings
10:55	Infinity_69	?
10:55	PilzAdam	http://www.lua.org/pil/
10:55	VanessaE	this ain't shell, this is Lua.
10:55	Infinity_69	NO!
10:56	Infinity_69	shell?
10:56	arsdragonfly	the if statement has a (
10:56	Infinity_69	btw, VanessaE, NO >> PilzAdam
10:56	Infinity_69	ok...
10:56	kaeza	minetest.register_privlage <-- wat
10:56	VanessaE	if you don't understand the basics of concatenation, you'll never get anywhere
10:56	VanessaE	this is programming 101 stuff here.
10:57	arsdragonfly	use .. to concatenate the strings
10:57	VanessaE	arsdragonfly: shhhhhhhh
10:57	kaeza	also, arg #2 to register_privilege is a table
10:57	Infinity_69	?
10:57	arsdragonfly	VanessaE ,Er,what's the point of that anyway?
10:58	PilzAdam	arsdragonfly, we dont help Infinity_69 so he doesnt ask again
10:58	PilzAdam	because he is annyoing
10:58	VanessaE	arsdragonfly: to make him actually LEARN instead of asking such simple questions
10:58	kaeza	Infinity_69, if we were to post corrections o these lines, we may as well rewrite the whole thing
10:58	Infinity_69	PilzAdam, if i'm annoying then you are a DICK!
10:58	arsdragonfly	all right
10:58	Infinity_69	PilzAdam = Dick
10:58		proller joined #minetest
10:59	Infinity_69	Dick is being a Richard to me!
10:59		Infinity_69 was kicked by VanessaE: shut up and go learn.
10:59	kaeza	:D
10:59	PilzAdam	finally
10:59	arsdragonfly	gj
10:59		Infinity_69 joined #minetest
11:01	* VanessaE	waits for the inevitable spew of insults, slurs, curses, etc.
11:02		john_minetest joined #minetest
11:03	Infinity_69	VanessaE = Fatty³ ; PilzAdam = .i.
11:04	Infinity_69	WOAH
11:04	Infinity_69	VanessaE is a freaking mind reader!
11:04		Infinity_69 was kicked by VanessaE: a pathetic attempt.
11:04		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
11:05	VanessaE	can I ban him?  PLEASE???
11:06	PilzAdam	sure
11:06	VanessaE	john_minetest: sqrt(-1) 2-cubed Sigma Pi
11:07	VanessaE	that's what I see (but with real symbols)
11:07	VanessaE	testing unicode or somethign?
11:07	VanessaE	hah!
11:08	VanessaE	and you didn't save any for the rest of us? :)
11:08		Issa joined #minetest
11:09	Issa	hillo
11:09	VanessaE	hi
11:09	Issa	i used animals on my map
11:09	Issa	show i can teake animals to do my owxn ferm ?
11:09	Issa	farm ?
11:09	kaeza	Infinity was banned for 3 days on the forums a while ago IIRC
11:09	VanessaE	john_minetest: all-meats, on thin crust please :)
11:12	thexyz	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3003
11:12	thexyz	ban?
11:12	VanessaE	wtf>
11:13	VanessaE	any idea what it was before?
11:13	VanessaE	oh, dwarves
11:13	VanessaE	ehm..
11:13	thexyz	yes'
11:13	VanessaE	restore from backups and ban his ass.
11:13	VanessaE	this shit has to stop
11:14	PilzAdam	he said he wants to continue dwarves
11:14	PilzAdam	(some days ago)
11:14	VanessaE	PilzAdam: how?  that *was* his dwarves thread
11:15		ImQ009 joined #minetest
11:16	VanessaE	looks like he nuked his "D-Pack" thread also.
11:16	Issa	F.. the spawn start is far away from where  dead
11:16	VanessaE	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4402
11:17	VanessaE	and several others too
11:17	Issa	hwo i can play in 1920  * 16000 please ?
11:17	kaeza	thexyz, you have backups right?
11:17	thexyz	yes
11:17	kaeza	revert the topic and re-troll th guy
11:18	kaeza	the*
11:18	thexyz	too lazy
11:18	kaeza	hehe
11:18	VanessaE	jesus, there's dozens here he blanked.
11:19	VanessaE	thexyz: don't be lazy, revert 'em.  and jordan4ibanez also.
11:20	kaeza	http://web.archive.org/web/20130205212441/http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3003 :D
11:20	VanessaE	muahahaha
11:20	VanessaE	the download links still work, too
11:21	kaeza	somebody mirror the copy and post the link in the first post
11:22	kaeza	rule #1 of the internet: what you do in the internet, stays in the internet
11:23	VanessaE	no way to see the forum post's bbcode source :(
11:24		troller joined #minetest
11:24	kaeza	should be fairly easy to parse the HTML and output the BB source
11:24	kaeza	<--- too lazy
11:27	kaeza	VanessaE, LOL the post is up again
11:27	VanessaE	I'm restoring it.
11:28	VanessaE	there, that
11:28	VanessaE	that's got it.
11:32	ImQ009	kaeza, Rule #1 of the Internet: There are no rules
11:32	kaeza	ImQ009, :D
11:32	kaeza	you actually read the rules?
11:33		Calinou joined #minetest
11:33	ImQ009	http://internet.com/
11:33	ImQ009	That is the best fucking domain ever
11:34	kaeza	ImQ009, actually, 1) Do not talk about rules 2-33
11:34	kaeza	source: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/rules-of-the-internet
11:35	ImQ009	Nice try
11:35	ImQ009	NO RULES
11:36	ImQ009	Well, the only valid rule is 34, and the rule 1 should be "Do not talk about rules 1-33"
11:36	ImQ009	Oh wait, 2-33, it is correct, I am an idiot
11:37	kaeza	derp
11:38	ImQ009	herp
11:38	kaeza	hurr
11:38		TheLastProject joined #minetest
11:39	ImQ009	TheLastProject, GET OUT, FAAST
11:40	TheLastProject	Errr, what?
11:40	VanessaE	there, Dwarves is restored.
11:40	ImQ009	TheLastProject, There's no time to explain, RUN
11:40	VanessaE	the game files are too large to mirror on ompldr though
11:41	VanessaE	I'll mirror the last version on my web space.
11:47	Calinou	you forgot rule 63, ImQ009
11:48	VanessaE	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4402
11:48	VanessaE	restored.
11:49	VanessaE	fuck.
11:49	VanessaE	bad link to that one.
11:50	VanessaE	anyone got a mirror of it?
11:52	Calinou	lol, mito
11:52	VanessaE	got it.
11:53	VanessaE	and..mirrored.
11:54	kaeza	http://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=2566
11:54	kaeza	see sig
11:54	Calinou	no signature?
11:54	kaeza	this is getting really stupid
11:54	VanessaE	just fixed that.
11:54	Calinou	also, no avatar :P
11:55	VanessaE	you're getting slow, kaeza  :)
11:55	kaeza	D:
11:55	Calinou	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88938#p88938
11:55	Calinou	mmpph
11:56	Calinou	I feel like I'm on a minecraft server
11:56	kaeza	so... umm... what is the point in spamming "BAN ME"?
11:57		NakedFury joined #minetest
11:57	kaeza	are they bound to some contract that doesn't let them leave the forums unless they are banned?
11:58	kaeza	mauvebic just up and left, and didn't go around doing these stupid things AFAIK
12:08	Issa	hello
12:09	Issa	how install minetoon texture pack
12:09	VanessaE	copy all png files from it into minetestfolder/textures/all
12:09	Issa	on the zip u have 3 directory
12:09	Issa	bucket
12:09	Issa	deault
12:09	Issa	an legacy ?
12:09	VanessaE	er
12:09	Issa	i have added the three directory on texture directoy on minetest bu is not loaded
12:10	Issa	VanessaE, i knw but on the zip u have lua files
12:10	kaeza	create a new dir, say, "Minetoon", move all the textures (*.png) to it, and set texture_path in minetest.conf to point to the dir
12:10		Maccer joined #minetest
12:10	Issa	and for the lua files .??
12:10	kaeza	Lua files?
12:11	kaeza	a texture pack with code?
12:11	kaeza	wut
12:11	VanessaE	oh that's right, he redefines a few items
12:12		Maccer joined #minetest
12:12	kaeza	then the best approach would be to create a new mod redefining all the items and distribute it separately
12:15	VanessaE	there, I was able to restore four of Mito's posts from data on archive.org.
12:15	VanessaE	the rest are dead.
12:16	VanessaE	someone else can look up the necessary caches/archives to jordan4ibanez's deleted posts.
12:18	VanessaE	thexyz: I suggest disabling editing of posts for now, lest someone else decide to pull the same routine
12:18	VanessaE	(except for moderators of course ;) )
12:21	thexyz	that suggestion is bad
12:22	thexyz	.. i think
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12:25	NakedFury	unless the forum is backedup monthly several times to fix this situation I cant find any punbb plugin to help us
12:26	VanessaE	well in the meantime, I've gone through all his deleted posts and cleaned them up as best I can
12:30	NakedFury	we would need a plugin that saves in a way all topics specially when they are edited. Saves them in the wikipedia style so administrators or users can go back and check past edits.
12:31		Pest joined #minetest
12:33	VanessaE	yeah, saw it
12:34		bas080 joined #minetest
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12:38	kaeza	small question: are dungeons generated only over already generated terrain?
12:38	kaeza	i.e. are they not generated on air?
12:40	kaeza	this is an interesting formation: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_2138171518.jpg
12:41		salamanderrake joined #minetest
12:41	VanessaE	only one of jordan4ibanez's topics was covered by archive.org.  restored it, but without download links.
12:41	VanessaE	(the links were broken)
12:43		iqualfragile joined #minetest
12:47	kaeza	thought I had a copy of his slimes here... seems like not
12:47	VanessaE	if you can find it, upload it and let me know which of those topics I need to restore it to :)
12:51	NakedFury	its such a dick move to delete your posts when you leave
12:54	kaeza	lol just found my old copy of ternadim :D
12:55	Issa	hello what i need to add on my minetest?conf for add admin server on my server minetetst please E?
12:58	Zeg9	http://ompldr.org/vaWNqMg <- waiting for content, now with progress bar
12:59	kaeza	Zeg9, awesome!
12:59	Zeg9	I don't know if I should add menubg thingie
12:59	Zeg9	testing it with freetype right now
12:59	Zeg9	testing it without* freetype right now
13:00	Zeg9	This requires to recompile the whole game -.-
13:00	Issa	Zeg9, it's cool screenshoot
13:01	kaeza	Zeg9, "Menu principal"... spanish? :3
13:01	Zeg9	No, french
13:01	kaeza	ah ok :)
13:01	Zeg9	I'll comment my code a bit and pull request
13:03	thexyz	by the way, PilzAdam, piwik supports do-not-track header
13:04	PilzAdam	hm?
13:04	Zeg9	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/705
13:05	thexyz	http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2013-05-08#i_3074324
13:09		Kacey joined #minetest
13:09		BackupCoder joined #minetest
13:10		salamanderrake joined #minetest
13:17		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
13:21	Calinou	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88958#p88958
13:21	Calinou	mmmph
13:21	Calinou	tells people not to put screamers
13:21	Calinou	puts an "overly attached girlfriend" screamer
13:22		ImQ009 joined #minetest
13:22	Calinou	Zeg9: "media" still isn't translated :P
13:22	Calinou	also, (something) enabled/disabled (eg. press F3) isn't translated
13:22	Calinou	:/
13:23	Zeg9	How do you want to translate media ? "données"?
13:26	Zeg9	Calinou: I could add wgettext to the code but I don't know how to update the .mo or whatever so weblate knows about
13:26	Zeg9	Calinou: I could add wgettext to the code but I don't know how to update the .mo or whatever so weblate knows about it*
13:27	Calinou	"média" :>
13:29	arsdragonfly	Seriously translating the keycodes are annoying
13:30		hmmmm joined #minetest
13:30	arsdragonfly	'Cause if you copy the text you'll get a failing check
13:37		troller joined #minetest
13:42	kaeza	thexyz, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5904
13:46	thexyz	> Still it's easier to deal with me than ban me. If it's so difficult to ban a person, then it's no wonder pull requests and ideas get ignored or denied.
13:46	thexyz	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88910#p88910
13:47		kaeza1 joined #minetest
13:51	thexyz	okay, banned
13:54	Zeg9	What could /me do now...
13:59		Jousway joined #minetest
14:02	* VanessaE	is back.  yay.
14:02	qznc__	Maybe minetest needs a clear process for feature requests? Could be Github issues, forum entries, wiki pages, ...
14:02	VanessaE	thexyz: he wrote that to me in PM also, or words to substantially that effect
14:03	VanessaE	qznc__: github issues are the most logical place, but those tend to be ignored
14:03	VanessaE	on the forum, the probability of one of the core devs seeing the issue and figuring it's worth acting on are somewhat low, so all that's left is IRC.  it's much harder to ignore an issue being presented on a realtime chat.
14:04	kaeza	I agree with them that saying "NOT IN THIS LIFE" right away without giving explanations does drive away contributors
14:04	kaeza	but these guys kinda exaggerated the issue
14:05	qznc__	VanessaE: So posting links to github issues within the forum should be encouraged :)
14:06	VanessaE	qznc__: actually I'd say that's a good idea
14:07	qznc__	VanessaE: A sticky post in "Feature Discussion" should explain that
14:07	PilzAdam	iqualfragile, you almost have 100 posts
14:08	* ShadowBot	wakes up
14:08		MinetestBot joined #minetest
14:08	* ShadowBot	sleeps
14:09	VanessaE	that does it.
14:09	VanessaE	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5774  <-- closed
14:12	* ShadowBot	wakes up
14:12	NakedFury	perhaps you could add a last post explaining why it was closed so we stop the possibility of likwid making yet another post just to ask why it was closed.
14:12		MinetestBot joined #minetest
14:12	* ShadowBot	sleeps
14:12	VanessaE	I had a post there, but deleted it.  figured I didn't really need to take the last word there.
14:12	VanessaE	someone else can chime in if they way
14:12	VanessaE	want*
14:13	thexyz	VanessaE: why did you close it?
14:13	NakedFury	talking about religion always without fail messes things up
14:13		Issa joined #minetest
14:13	VanessaE	thexyz: because of Jonathan getting "oh take Jesus into your bosom" bullshit
14:14	VanessaE	the forums are NOT the place for religious messages, especially preachy-proselytizing crap
14:14	* kaeza	mumbles about GNU GPL being also a religion
14:14	VanessaE	heh
14:14	Issa	hell
14:15	Issa	hello
14:15	thexyz	VanessaE: wait, this post was made in "Offtopic" section
14:15	Issa	how configurer adminsitrateur for a dedicated serveur pleaseu
14:15	VanessaE	thexyz: yep, and even then it's taking the concept way too far
14:15	Zeg9	Issa: mets name = <admin> dans minetest.conf
14:15	thexyz	i still think there's nothing wrong with this topic
14:16	Zeg9	Ensuite dans le jeu /grant <name> <privilege>
14:16		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
14:16	Zeg9	And sorry for speaking french, thought he would understand better :)
14:16		rubenwardy joined #minetest
14:18		FreeFull joined #minetest
14:18	rubenwardy	hi all
14:19	VanessaE	hey rubemn
14:19	VanessaE	ruben*
14:19	Zeg9	Hi
14:19	VanessaE	thexyz: the topic as a whole is fine - but as I expected, it's devolved into religious nutjobbery.
14:19	VanessaE	I closed it to put a silent, graceful stop to that.  maybe it can be re-opened later.
14:20	Zeg9	Nice to see this finally got closed...
14:20	rubenwardy	thank God that has been closed.
14:21	rubenwardy	Or rather do not thank God, it is him that started it
14:21	rubenwardy	lol
14:21	VanessaE	lol
14:21	VanessaE	no, it's one of his nitwit disciples :)
14:21	VanessaE	free will, etc.
14:21	thexyz	VanessaE: the discussion looks fine to me
14:22	VanessaE	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88962#p88962
14:22	VanessaE	this does not.
14:23	thexyz	can you quote what is wrong here?
14:23	VanessaE	" I will pray for you and others on here, and hope one day that you will accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."
14:23	rubenwardy	nut job
14:23	VanessaE	that shit.
14:23	rubenwardy	I personally can not believe how narrowminded and sheepish people are
14:23	VanessaE	don't go telling others you hope that, or that they should, convert to your religion
14:23	rubenwardy	religion is good, as it provides faith and good morals
14:24	rubenwardy	but it should not be used to:
14:24	rubenwardy	A. Start wars
14:24	VanessaE	rubenwardy: as long as the religion in question doesn't lead to hatred of some group, or reasons to get violent
14:24	rubenwardy	B. Hinder scientific and non scientific knowledge
14:24	VanessaE	hear hear!
14:24	rubenwardy	C. Force people to do stupid things, or limit their freedom
14:25	rubenwardy	start wars include terrorism and mudor
14:25	rubenwardy	*murder
14:25	rubenwardy	that is my 30 sec preach over
14:25	VanessaE	lol
14:25	kaeza	hehe
14:26	VanessaE	I warned you guys that "offtopic" was a bad idea...but noooo, no one listened.  now we have religious topics, minecraft stuff creeping in, etc
14:26	rubenwardy	Should be "offtopic but not so offtopic"
14:27	VanessaE	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88963#p88963
14:27	VanessaE	now THIS on the other hand, is useful!
14:27	kaeza	offtopic should be for things related to minetest that don't fit well in other categories
14:28	kaeza	well... perhaps "General Discussion" would be for that
14:28	VanessaE	(though I'd move the text to be displayed at the bottom, left of the hotbar)
14:28	kaeza	VanessaE, :D
14:28	kaeza	you like?
14:28	VanessaE	yes
14:29	kaeza	perhaps to the bottom-right, just under the "hand"
14:29	VanessaE	yeah
14:29	VanessaE	but with a shadow behind the text
14:29	VanessaE	so it doesn't get lost in the noise
14:30	thexyz	meh
14:30	thexyz	i still don't see anything bad in such a discussion
14:31	VanessaE	well you can always re-open it if you want to
14:31	VanessaE	I won't compete.
14:32	thexyz	wait, who deleted 4aiman's "leaving" post?
14:32	kaeza	VanessaE, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/minetest/mods/Kaeza-wielded_item_hud_2.jpg
14:33	VanessaE	kaeza: yes, like that - but can you put a drop shadow under the text?
14:33	VanessaE	(if not, I know a trick you can use to fake it)
14:33	kaeza	that would need another hud item
14:33	VanessaE	thexyz: not me, or at least I don't think I did anyway.
14:33	NakedFury	make a no posting sub area where we can move all the Im leaving topics. they are all closed and can only be moved to that area. this way they are not deleted and kept for archiving
14:33	VanessaE	thexyz: it might be in the trash?
14:34	VanessaE	hm, no.. not there either.
14:35	thexyz	NakedFury: such section already exists
14:36	rubenwardy	THE TRASH!
14:37	thexyz	still, some mods decide to delete topics instead of moving them
14:37	thexyz	just wtf is wrong with those people
14:37	kaeza	VanessaE, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/minetest/mods/Kaeza-wielded_item_hud_3.jpg
14:37	VanessaE	NICE
14:37	NakedFury	have you guys found something to stop users completely editing out posts out of spite us minetest comunity?
14:37	thexyz	kaeza: why no ttf?
14:37	VanessaE	but keep the yellow text?
14:37	VanessaE	thexyz: ttf has no drop shadows.
14:38	kaeza	thexyz, it IS TTF
14:38	VanessaE	and enabling ttf disables the ability to use bitmap fonts
14:38	kaeza	actually... umm.. no it isn't
14:38	thexyz	kaeza: it is not
14:38	NakedFury	kaeza: could you add that to options? I would suggest another mode. when you switch the items the blocks name appears for a few seconds on top of the hotbar before fading out.
14:38	kaeza	looks like I forgot to compile with -DENABLE_FREETYPE
14:38		Matrixiumn joined #minetest
14:39	kaeza	NakedFury, that could be arranged
14:39	NakedFury	so users would have 2 modes. the fading out version and the always on
14:40	NakedFury	but both ways its a great little thing you did there
14:40	VanessaE	NakedFury: good idea!
14:41	kaeza	lol http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88975#p88975
14:41	kaeza	I wrote this in like 20 secs :3
14:42		proller joined #minetest
14:44	rubenwardy	brb
14:46		Jordach joined #minetest
14:46		Jordach joined #minetest
14:51	rubenwardy	I like it, vanessaE
14:51	rubenwardy	http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2005052013%20-%2009:51:55%20PM.png
14:51	VanessaE	thanks :)
14:51	Jordach	hey all
14:51	VanessaE	minecraft-esque, but clearly with a Minetest flavor :)
14:53	rubenwardy	<Infinity_69> PilzAdam = Dick
14:54	rubenwardy	such a noob, using the assignment instead of comparision
14:54	VanessaE	heh
14:54	Jordach	VanessaE, y u op
14:54	VanessaE	Jordach:  because. :)
14:54	* rubenwardy	is reading logs since he was last here
14:55	rubenwardy	Mito551 is banned?
14:55	VanessaE	yep.
14:55	VanessaE	pulled the same routine others have been doing - deleting posts on the way out.
14:56		Calinou joined #minetest
14:57	VanessaE	and then there's that Calinou guy, who keeps....oh, hi ;)
14:57		thefamilygrog66 joined #minetest
14:57	rubenwardy	mauvebic has left?
14:57	VanessaE	rubenwardy: apparently so
14:57	rubenwardy	Minetest is going to shit
14:58	rubenwardy	see my signature: http://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=2051
14:58	VanessaE	I wish I knew what the correct answer is to that
14:58	thefamilygrog66	what are the "community problems"?
14:58	rubenwardy	not sure
14:58	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: people leaving in a huff because they're not being listened to in the way they think is right
14:58	rubenwardy	just blame PA for every thing :P
14:59	* PilzAdam	too
14:59	Calinou	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88962#p88962
14:59	Calinou	atheism won :>
14:59	VanessaE	you know, "I'm taking my X and going home!" (for X = "mods", "code", etc)
14:59	rubenwardy	lol
14:59	Calinou	rubenwardy: blaming pulseaudio? no!
15:00	rubenwardy	you know who I mean
15:00	rubenwardy	and he know as well :P
15:00	Calinou	yeah, mushroom adam
15:00	* Calinou	knows haswell
15:00	Jordach	anyways
15:00	thefamilygrog66	science for the win
15:00	rubenwardy	I am just joking, I am not being serious
15:00	Jordach	i might have found the problem to the people leaving issue
15:00	VanessaE	whenever it is involved, blame is always properly laid if it points to pulseaudio :-)
15:00	VanessaE	Jordach: which would be..?
15:00	Calinou	"switch to arch."
15:00	Jordach	its not just the devs
15:01	Jordach	its some members essentially putting the lead devs down
15:01	Jordach	this ISNT a PURE GAME engine
15:01	kaeza	Calinou, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/minetest/mods/Kaeza-wielded_item_hud_3.jpg
15:01	VanessaE	Jordach: it aims to be, though
15:01	Jordach	yes
15:01	VanessaE	kaeza: the text needs to be bigger
15:01	Jordach	but nowadays, voxel == mining game
15:01	Calinou	shaded text :O
15:01	kaeza	VanessaE, how?
15:01	VanessaE	kaeza: no idea how, just that it's too small :)
15:01	Jordach	yes, it can produce some awesome things
15:01	kaeza	you can't use custom fonts in Lua HUD :P
15:02	VanessaE	well shit
15:02	Jordach	such as cornernote's skyblock
15:02	VanessaE	use my "bigger, sharper font"?
15:02	Jordach	that was the shit
15:02	VanessaE	Jordach: too bad he never finished that
15:02	Jordach	VanessaE, you know why?
15:02	Jordach	-?
15:02	VanessaE	dunno
15:02	VanessaE	doesn't much matter anyway
15:03		Final joined #minetest
15:03	VanessaE	he went full retard is why :)
15:03	Jordach	VanessaE, you didnt allow him his say
15:03	thefamilygrog66	:O
15:03	VanessaE	?
15:03	Jordach	or in fact, the ops
15:03	VanessaE	what, you mean that BS about going veg?
15:03	Jordach	yes
15:03	Jordach	people are who they are
15:04	VanessaE	of course we didn't - it was utterly off-topic and he was posting shock images to boot.
15:04	Jordach	you didnt have to push him aside for that
15:04	rubenwardy	4aiman is quite right
15:04	Jordach	hm?
15:04	rubenwardy	"I still have a plenty of ideas, but no one seems to care about Minetest  having it's own face. Well, except really small group of unorganized  (that stands for "not united in their attempts") people."
15:04	kaeza	well... if the guy was still around maybe he could ask to be unbanned
15:04	Calinou	the text appears above hotbar, not at bottom right too, kaeza
15:04	* VanessaE	wonders who that "small group" includes.
15:05	Calinou	and it's server-side... sucks when you have 200ms+ latency :P
15:05	kaeza	Calinou, that was VanessaE's idea
15:05	Jordach	anyways
15:05	kaeza	and I like it this way
15:05	Calinou	+1, it looks fine
15:05	VanessaE	I like it the way you've got it now
15:05	Jordach	we should really stop the apprehension#
15:06	kaeza	plus you gotta do some more processing so it doesn't overlap health bar
15:06	kaeza	and think of hunger, thirst bars, etc
15:06	Jordach	just because someone is different, doesnt mean you should exclude them
15:06		rubenwardy1 joined #minetest
15:06	* thefamilygrog66	is different
15:06	kaeza	wb rubenwardy
15:07	rubenwardy1	stupid router :P
15:07	VanessaE	Jordach: there's a big gap between being "different" and "shoving your differences down everyone else's throat".
15:07	kaeza	^
15:07	VanessaE	different is good - G*d knows I'm not average
15:07	celeron55_	rubenwardy1: i'm constantly wondering why those people won't organize
15:07	VanessaE	but I don't go cramming my beliefs in everyone's face and expecting positive responses.
15:07	celeron55_	it would be the benefit of everyone
15:08	thefamilygrog66	people should stop cutting their hair!
15:08	thefamilygrog66	sorry, that was me cramming my beliefs...
15:08	VanessaE	lol
15:08	kaeza	people should stop using Lua and switch to JavaScript
15:08	rubenwardy	not quite sure who that group is
15:09	rubenwardy	do you think he means, core devs, contributors, mod makers, or the community as a whole?
15:09	VanessaE	kaeza: lamefun, is that you? ;)
15:09	* thefamilygrog66	kinda likes lua
15:09	kaeza	the shiny new world won't allow compiled languages for the general public, etc, etc
15:09	celeron55_	rubenwardy: i'm not either, but they have referred to themselves more often than only this time
15:09	rubenwardy	I like lua
15:09	rubenwardy	but it encourages bad programming habbits
15:09	thexyz	Jordach: "push him"?
15:09	thexyz	[citation needed]
15:10	celeron55_	rubenwardy: i think that mostly means a small bunch of people in the community
15:10	* thefamilygrog66	was raised on BASIC
15:10	rubenwardy	hmm
15:10	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: o/
15:11	rubenwardy	I would hope I am an "influential" member of the community.
15:11	rubenwardy	nah, no chance
15:11	thefamilygrog66	V knows what I'm talking about
15:11	VanessaE	rubenwardy: you'd be surprised just how influential you are.
15:11	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: BASIC v2.0 ftw ;)
15:11	celeron55_	rubenwardy: you do are more than average, but i won't judge more than that
15:11	thefamilygrog66	haha
15:11	rubenwardy	I wish I was better at c++ and Minetest's source
15:12	VanessaE	for the longest time, that was the only language I could code in.
15:12	rubenwardy	but I have no idea where to get started
15:12	celeron55_	the influence of people tend to somewhat correlate with the amount of stuff they make for others
15:12	Kray	https://gist.github.com/spion/3049314
15:12	thefamilygrog66	likewise - learned on the Commodore PET, and graduated to the C64...
15:12	kaeza	PRINT INK 7; PAPER 0; AT 1, 1; "thefamilygrog66 r00lz"
15:13	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: I'll do you one better - I learned on a Timex/Sinclair 1000 (e.g. ZX-81) and THEN got a c64 :)
15:13	thefamilygrog66	didn't learn Pascal till a few years later
15:13	VanessaE	Kray: what is this?
15:13	thefamilygrog66	Actually, I also owned a TS1000 before my C64 - probably repressed that memory...
15:13	thefamilygrog66	:)
15:13	thefamilygrog66	that thing was a pain to program on!
15:13	Kray	VanessaE: performance comparison
15:14	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: had a 16K RAM expander for mine :)
15:14	qznc__	celeron55_: that correlation is good, since it basically means it is a meritocracy
15:14	thefamilygrog66	I might've had one of those too, can't remember - all I recall is bizarre membranous key combinations to do anything
15:14	Jordach	i probably have the (5th) highest forum ranking
15:14	VanessaE	kaeza Ah, I see
15:15	kaeza	...
15:15	rubenwardy	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4204
15:15	celeron55_	Kray: lol, luajit's hash table implementation appears to be quite intensely fast
15:15	celeron55_	(which doesn't surprise at all though)
15:15	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: yeah, that was a pain alright :)
15:15	rubenwardy	close that now that I have posted it ^^
15:15	Kray	celeron55_: yeah
15:15	rubenwardy	Would be better to start a new topic than revive
15:15	VanessaE	wtf?  I ended up at the top of that list? o.O
15:16	rubenwardy	just
15:16	Jordach	VanessaE, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88903#p88903
15:16	Jordach	half five in the morning
15:16	VanessaE	Jordach: saw that
15:16	rubenwardy	can you close it?
15:16	Jordach	(i woke up about about 3:30am)
15:16	VanessaE	rubenwardy: closed.
15:16	celeron55_	Kray: it's probably because hash tables would really be the bottleneck of well structured Lua code otherwise 8)
15:16	whirm	-- LuaJIT library: LUA_LIBRARY-NOTFOUND
15:16	whirm	-- LuaJIT headers: /usr/include/luajit-2.0
15:16	Jordach	VanessaE, just god to add some bones
15:16	whirm	-- LuaJIT not found, using bundled Lua.
15:16	rubenwardy	thanks
15:16	Jordach	got*
15:16	whirm	its finding the luajit headers but then saying they aren't there?
15:17	Jordach	VanessaE, i might have found a way to expand the player texture system
15:17	VanessaE	Jordach: how?
15:17	Jordach	VanessaE, not only can you have player textures, you can also have player models
15:17	VanessaE	whirm: maybe all you have is the headers but not the actual library?
15:17	celeron55_	qznc__: yes, it is good; also it is quite inevitable
15:17	Jordach	provided they use the same names as the default system
15:17	Jordach	so mine_START
15:17	whirm	VanessaE: I don't think that can happen on Debian, let me check
15:17	Jordach	etcx
15:17	Jordach	-x
15:18	whirm	VanessaE: yup -> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libluajit-5.1.so.2
15:18	Jordach	in other news: debian 7 came out
15:19	celeron55_	whirm: that path looks like something that the cmake scripts won't find
15:19	VanessaE	whirm: delete CMakeCache.txt and use the command line switches to point to it manually
15:19	whirm	oh
15:19	whirm	just deleting CMakeCache.txt was enough :/
15:19	VanessaE	oh ok
15:20	celeron55_	passing "-DLUA_LIBRARY=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libluajit-5.1.so.2" to cmake may do it
15:20	rubenwardy	Jordach: You were the 8th most respected person (not counting joint positions above you)
15:21	whirm	celeron55_: not necessary, I only needed to remove CMakeCache.txt
15:21	celeron55_	(if one wants to leave the cache alone because of other changes to the configuration)
15:21	rubenwardy	in december 2012
15:21	whirm	celeron55_: shouldnt it be replaced when CMakefile gets updated?
15:21	celeron55_	it will only update the changed portions of the cache and leave all else as-is
15:23	celeron55_	it's probably because when doing stuff on windows, you can end up with a really hairy configuration that you don't even know how to recreate 8)
15:23	whirm	:D
15:23	celeron55_	autotools does clear the configuration always; it's quite annoying actually
15:25	whirm	btw, I'm trying to use Terminus as font in minetest, but it seems its ignoring the thing altogether? (IE, no file not found message and showing the default one)
15:25	VanessaE	whirm: you lack freetype support
15:25	whirm	celeron55_: well, I tend to create scripts for anything I build more than once, so I really don't care much :D
15:26	* whirm	le checking...
15:26	VanessaE	whirm: +1 for hand-rolled automated build scripts :)
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15:33	whirm	VanessaE: ook, at least now it says it can't find the font :D
15:33	VanessaE	heh
15:33		troller joined #minetest
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15:33	VanessaE	well that's a start :)
15:35	whirm	yeahh! looking good!
15:35		proller__ joined #minetest
15:36	whirm	VanessaE: much better with Terminus 14
15:36	* ShadowBot	wakes up
15:36	VanessaE	whirm: try building without TTF, and use this font:  http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=63561#p63561
15:36	VanessaE	imho, it looks better than the ttf ones :)
15:37	VanessaE	(though there's some minor kerning issues, but that's in the engine, not the font)
15:37	whirm	VanessaE: Terminus has no antialias, I like it like this :)
15:37	whirm	I use Terminus everywhere
15:38	* whirm	thinking about setting it up on the phone
15:38	arsdragonfly	VanessaE :What's the loading screen when connecting to a server like?
15:38	VanessaE	arsdragonfly: with my font?  same as before, just bigger text.  Not sure how it would look with Zeg9's patch (see -dev)
15:38	arsdragonfly	'cause I have a TTF build ,and you said it'll break it
15:39	VanessaE	oh that
15:39	VanessaE	yeah, with TTF compiled in, most of the loading screen info is missing
15:39	Zeg9	Not with my patch... :P
15:39	VanessaE	heh
15:40	VanessaE	no offense to thexyz, but I have to wonder why that code was accepted in such a half-assed state
15:40	thefamilygrog66	I understand that the latest git allows mods to specify how fast a player can move, and how high a player can jump - is that correct?
15:42	VanessaE	dunno
15:42	thefamilygrog66	PilzAdam?
15:42	Zeg9	Yes it does
15:43	Zeg9	thefamilygrog66, as well as gravity
15:43	PilzAdam	thefamilygrog66?
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15:43	thefamilygrog66	Didn't you mention that it was now possible to control that sort of thing with the latest version?
15:44	thexyz	sure, no offense
15:44	thexyz	that code isn't written by me anyway
15:44	VanessaE	oh ok heh
15:45	thexyz	but it's good to know the only problem is the loading screen
15:45	VanessaE	thexyz: that isn't the only problem.
15:46	rubenwardy	the sheeps in YAMM eat grass
15:46	rubenwardy	literally
15:47	rubenwardy	ha!
15:47	rubenwardy	I am standing on one
15:48	rubenwardy	(Yet Another Mob Mod)
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15:52	thefamilygrog66	Zeg9: is there any documentation online that I can refer to regarding this?
15:53	Zeg9	thefamilygrog66: yes, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1444
15:53	qznc__	is there a page on the wiki about the different games? (survival,build,etc)
15:53	thefamilygrog66	That's the one - thanks, Zeg9
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15:58	Zeg9	VanessaE, seems your font works fine with my patch
15:58	VanessaE	screenshot? :)
15:59	Zeg9	http://ompldr.org/vaWNrcQ
16:00	VanessaE	\o/
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16:04	celeron55_	VanessaE: TTF half-assed? i find it incredible that anyone even bothered to make it work as much as it does
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16:04	rubenwardy	Can I use a keyword (ie: end) as a table hash in lua?
16:05	rubenwardy	walk = {
16:05	rubenwardy	start = 81
16:05	rubenwardy	end = 100,
16:05	rubenwardy	}
16:05	celeron55_	rubenwardy: of course
16:05	celeron55_	if you have some really odd stuff you may need to use ["9asfj09sfjdya0"] as the index though
16:05	VanessaE	celeron55_: I wouldn't complain if the presence of TTF didn't break other stuff.
16:05	celeron55_	(well that wasn't a good example)
16:06	thexyz	VanessaE: what stuff did it break?
16:06	celeron55_	VanessaE: nothing as big as that can be added without it having a single problem
16:06	Issa	do u have a minetest.conf to play in HD
16:06	Issa	?
16:06	celeron55_	and if there is a problem, the right thing to do is fix it rather than complain
16:06	celeron55_	it's just a few numbers probably somewhere there anywya
16:07	VanessaE	thexyz: aside from the loading screen, if TTF support is compiled in, bitmap fonts don't work anymore, which is mandatory if you need a drop shadow behind the text for readability sake.
16:08	kaeza	NakedFury, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/minetest/mods/Kaeza-wielded_item_hud-0.1.1.zip
16:08	celeron55_	VanessaE: you're lucky i forced someone (thexyz?) to even make having non-TTF fonts a compile-time option
16:09	celeron55_	they were going to be completely unsupported otherwise
16:10	VanessaE	celeron55_: and had you not done so, frankly, it would have been a braindead decision :)
16:10	rubenwardy	celeron55_, you Lyier, you can not use end as a hash
16:10	rubenwardy	:P
16:10	kaeza	rubenwardy, ["end"] = ...
16:10	celeron55_	rubenwardy: {["end"] = "yes you can"}
16:11	kaeza	:D
16:11	rubenwardy	(5:05:11 PM) rubenwardy: walk = {
16:11	rubenwardy	(5:05:11 PM) rubenwardy:      start = 81
16:11	rubenwardy	(5:05:11 PM) rubenwardy:      end = 100,
16:11	rubenwardy	(5:05:11 PM) rubenwardy: }
16:11	rubenwardy	forget the missing comma
16:14	thefamilygrog66	would the syntax be something like this?  set_physics_override(speed=2, jump=1, gravity=3)
16:15	NakedFury	kaeza: error line 28 attempt to call method hud_add (a nil value)
16:15	kaeza	NakedFury, your client is too old
16:15	NakedFury	046
16:15	NakedFury	are we at 047 now?
16:15	kaeza	0.4.6 stable?
16:16	kaeza	HUD support was added in dev version
16:16	VanessaE	just get the latest git
16:16	VanessaE	:)
16:16	thefamilygrog66	the latest git crashes on my linux machine :(
16:16	VanessaE	what's it do?
16:17	VanessaE	(I mean, does it segfault, etc)
16:17	NakedFury	downloading pillzadams 28 hours ago dropbox version
16:17	thefamilygrog66	as soon as I attempt to log into a server, it just disappears - haven't bothered checking the log yet though
16:17	VanessaE	thefamilygrog66: that happens with a LOT of people
16:17	thefamilygrog66	I just run an earlier standalone version (i.e. the installed version is a daily)
16:19	NakedFury	dammit the game wont even list the mod with /mods command in game
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16:19	arsdragonfly	I forgot to construct a table
16:19	NakedFury	mods here my ass
16:19	arsdragonfly	Nvm it works
16:21	NakedFury	ok now it works, I got to add the mods directly to games>gamemode>mods
16:21	NakedFury	but works nice
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16:23	NakedFury	what is TTF?
16:23	thexyz	truetype fonts
16:23	NakedFury	wait. true type font?
16:23	NakedFury	ohh ok it clicked in my head after asking
16:23	thexyz	+ unicode support
16:23	thexyz	some subset though
16:23	thexyz	ucs-2 it seems
16:24	thefamilygrog66	does anyone have an example using set_physics_override(speed, jump, gravity) ?
16:24	PilzAdam	player:set_physics_override(1, 10, 1)
16:24	Calinou	potion API
16:25	PilzAdam	increases jump height by a factor of 10
16:25	thefamilygrog66	cool, thanks PilzAdam
16:25	Zeg9	player:set_physics_override(nil,10,nil)
16:25	thefamilygrog66	oh yeah, nil is the default, right?
16:25	PilzAdam	no
16:25	PilzAdam	1 is default
16:25	Zeg9	Using nil will allow using the already set physics. But 1 is default
16:25	PilzAdam	nil simply doesnt override what is already set
16:26	thefamilygrog66	Okay, so if I've changed a value already, nil will keep it the same.
16:26	PilzAdam	Zeg9, ", nil)" is quite useless
16:27	Zeg9	True
16:27	* PilzAdam	wonders how many people will copy it if I add , nil) to all my function calls in my mods
16:27	* thefamilygrog66	probably will
16:28	thefamilygrog66	haha
16:28	* kaeza	hates people writing tbl = { foo = nil }
16:28	* Zeg9	just understood what is the segfault in the main menu
16:29	VanessaE	Zeg9: kahrl has a patch waiting that fixes that I guess
16:29	* PilzAdam	needs to merge it
16:29	Zeg9	Yeah, I saw the patch before actually knowing the bug
16:30	Zeg9	PilzAdam, while you're at it, what about my progress bar ? o:-)
16:30	VanessaE	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/702  <-- is this what I think it is?
16:30	PilzAdam	no, its not batman
16:30	kaeza	Zeg9, not sure if an algel smiley, or a man with a pickaxe in the head
16:31	kaeza	angel*
16:31	Zeg9	Let's say both, kaeza
16:32	PilzAdam	Zeg9, your thing is untested by me
16:32	PilzAdam	so I cant say that Ill merge it
16:32	PilzAdam	the idea sounds good, though
16:36	NakedFury	how long would zeg9s idea and the pull on vanessaes 702 link take to test and be added>
16:36	NakedFury	?
16:37	PilzAdam	my lazyness included?
16:37	NakedFury	and by others?
16:39	Zeg9	Why not you ? :P
16:45	NakedFury	I will start practicing the compilers art starting saturday when my finals are over. I will need to purge all c++ compilers from my system and start clean
16:45		webdesigner97 joined #minetest
16:45	rubenwardy	Let create a "Talk like Likwid" day
16:45	rubenwardy	make 20 posts in a day, saying not much that is useful
16:45	Jordach_	rubenwardy, just be retarded
16:46	rubenwardy	that is another parameter
16:46	NakedFury	20 a day must be when he feels sick
16:54	Jordach_	Taoki[laptop], you about
16:54	* Zeg9	is bored --'
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16:58	Jordach	yo Taoki[laptop]
17:03	Jordach	anyways
17:03	rubenwardy	added 3d model support and animation to YAMM (Yet another mob mod)
17:04	rubenwardy	next: animal damage and running away from predators
17:04	rubenwardy	and trying to get pathfinding to work
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17:06	* Jordach	finally knows how to modify blender bones
17:06	rubenwardy	blender is complicated
17:07	rubenwardy	I have never managed to do uv or texture painting
17:07	rubenwardy	all of the tutorials do not work
17:07	Jordach	btw
17:07	Jordach	i've worked out how to make movies with minetest
17:08	Jordach	bandicam + custom model (and /command anims
17:08	Jordach	and have a second window recording
17:08	Jordach	thats a start
17:09	rubenwardy	for killing people, yes
17:09	Zeg9	-is easy +is easy when you know it
17:10	Zeg9	oh and I found how to attach bones to vertex groups, john_minetest
17:10	Zeg9	just call the bone the same name as the group
17:10	rubenwardy	multa.bugs3.com/minetest/forum/
17:11	rubenwardy	http://multa.bugs3.com/minetest/forum/
17:11	Jordach	john_minetest, rubenwardy: challenge add armature and FIX THE UV WRAPS: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=88903#p88903
17:12	Jordach	because 3ds sucks ass
17:12	rubenwardy	Minetest Extensions has been decommissioned
17:12	rubenwardy	brb
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17:18	VanessaE	bbl
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17:20	Jordach	john_minetest, rigify FTW
17:23	Jordach	esp. with this model
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17:29	Jordach	john_minetest, partially done the arms
17:31	rubenwardy	back
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17:32	[ungali]	is there a way to turn off particles in minetest.conf ?
17:33	Jordach	yes
17:33	rubenwardy	see minetest.conf.example]
17:33	[ungali]	thanks
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17:54	rubenwardy	how can you get the height of the terrain at a specific X/Z
17:54	rubenwardy	?
17:56	Warr1024	I've been wondering the same thing, actually...
17:58	Zeg9	Is someone not lazy enough to test this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/705
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18:02	celeron55_	Zeg9: you should add clouds only if the enable_clouds setting is true
18:03	celeron55_	gotta respect the people who want less bling
18:03	Zeg9	I was wondering what was the setting in fact
18:03	celeron55_	hmm actually no
18:03	celeron55_	not enable_clouds...
18:03	Zeg9	should it be a black background when there is no cloud, or a blue one?
18:03	celeron55_	menu_clouds
18:04	celeron55_	well, dunno
18:05	celeron55_	i'd prefer black
18:06	Zeg9	Black is simpler since I kept it for other loading screens, so sorry, john... :P
18:07	Jordach	also: star-made.org
18:07	Jordach	thats a nice game
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18:09	sfan5	Zeg9: if you add it respecting the menu_clouds settings I can merge it
18:10	Zeg9	It's nearly done
18:10	Zeg9	should I squash the commits?
18:10	sfan5	yup
18:11	celeron55_	i think the way i made the menu theming to handle clouds is kind of not good either from the perspective of the user who doesn't want clouds
18:11	celeron55_	but... whatever i guess
18:11	Zeg9	I just saw the background, yeah...
18:11	sfan5	Zeg9: also "video::IVideoDriver*driver = device->getVideoDriver();" should be "video::IVideoDriver* driver = device->getVideoDriver();"
18:11	Zeg9	The space?
18:11	sfan5	yes
18:11	Zeg9	ok
18:11	Zeg9	I'll amend
18:13	rubenwardy	how do you get a player by their name?
18:13	rubenwardy	nevermind
18:13	Zeg9	sfan5, fixed
18:14	sfan5	will test now
18:14	sfan5	celeron55_: is it ok if I merge Zeg9's pull after testing?
18:16	celeron55_	sfan5: i think so
18:19	sfan5	Zeg9: works! awesome
18:20	Zeg9	Thanks :D
18:22	sfan5	Zeg9: i'll merge that now
18:22	sfan5	*waits for git clone to finish*
18:22	BrandonReese	Zeg9, I like it a lot
18:23	rubenwardy	this is my function to get a terrain's height: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4d96a25f8cc1a37aa191
18:23	rubenwardy	fairly complicated, but works and is fast
18:24	Zeg9	I remember there was some get surface height or whatever that got merged... I don't think it has a lua interface though
18:24	sfan5	how I'd do it:   start at 0, repeat until above == air && below ~= air { block ~= air -> go up else go down }
18:25	sfan5	*y 0
18:25	Zeg9	Going to eat, cya.
18:25	sfan5	Zeg9: "warning: 5 lines add whitespace errors." y u no code correctly?
18:25	rubenwardy	similar to minet
18:25	celeron55_	Zeg9: i think it didn't get merged as of now
18:25	rubenwardy	*mine
18:26	Warr1024	what about caves?
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18:27	sfan5	where did MinetestBot go?
18:28		MinetestBot joined #minetest
18:28	* ShadowBot	sleeps
18:28	sfan5	!deop
18:28	sfan5	Zeg9: merged!
18:29	sfan5	time for a new win builds
18:29	sfan5	-s
18:30	Warr1024	If you want to find the true terrain height at a certain point, it seems like you'd have to look at sunlight incidence...
18:30	rubenwardy	sfan5: with your one you make two get_nodes per loop, with my one it is one node per loop, and saving the last node in a boolean
18:30	rubenwardy	not sure if that is faster
18:31	rubenwardy	I need it to work out if the animal can run to there, w/o using path finding
18:32	rubenwardy	I have positionA and central position
18:32	iqualfragile	rubenwardy: but what happens when the position is in the air allready?
18:32	rubenwardy	It goes down
18:32	rubenwardy	and checks if the below node is a block
18:32	rubenwardy	if it is, the air block is the result
18:33	rubenwardy	https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4d96a25f8cc1a37aa191
18:35	rubenwardy	updated
18:39	sfan5	new win build: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=89023#p89023
18:40	Warr1024	I guess there's no definitive way in the lua API to find out whether a block can "see sky" or at least is affected by sunlight?
18:40	Warr1024	You could compare get_node_light(pos, 0) vs. get_node_light(pos, 0.5) and see if they differ, but if there's a light source immediately nearby, that would give you a false negative...
18:40	BrandonReese	rubenwardy: Why do you redeclare your position table using values from the position table being passed to the function? Looks redundant to me.
18:41	rubenwardy	because the position table would have been modified
18:41	rubenwardy	tables are pased by referende
18:41	rubenwardy	*reference
18:41	rubenwardy	*passed
18:41	BrandonReese	ok gotcha
18:42	BrandonReese	I learned something today
18:42	rubenwardy	would the best way to make a mob run in an opposite direction be to use trigonometry?
18:42	ShadowNinja	Zeg9: How did you get Minetest to compile on Arch linux?
18:43	tripod	he may have grabbed the git....or PKGBUILD
18:43	ShadowNinja	Maybe, but I need to develop on my copy.
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18:55	rubenwardy	how do I get the yaw of one object to another?
18:55	MinetestBot	GIT: kahrl commited to minetest/minetest: Fix world selection a bit (also fixes a main menu segfault) f00cee75c1 2013-05-08T11:54:03-07:00 http://git.io/_uhZ1A
18:57	ssieb	celeron55_: that guy with the sse3 error yesterday was probably running Fedora.  There's a forum thread on that.  There's an issue with the F18 irrlicht devel package where it has the wrong headers.
18:58	Zeg9	ShadowNinja: I used git, then cmake . && make -j4
19:00	Zeg9	Also you should install the dependencies for the PKGBUILD of minetest-git
19:01	rubenwardy	bye all
19:01	Zeg9	I have to go now, bye all, too.
19:04		rubenwardy left #minetest
19:12	ShadowNinja	Audio set up now, but I still can't compile minetest. Does anyone here compile minetest on Arch linux?
19:13	thexyz	> Minetest Extensions experiences over 400 visitors a week, and because of this it has been suffering from Immense lag and failures.
19:15	ShadowNinja	Um... lol
19:17	AshleyWaffle	someone should make this for minetest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=8RN7PD2qiJE
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19:33	khonkhortisan	if it can do anaglyph then it can do cross-eyed 3d too
19:34	sokomine	i wish there where more models for animals for mobf
19:48	* ShadowBot	wakes up
19:49	ShadowNinja	sfan5: ^
19:50	Warr1024	is it safe?
19:51	sokomine	never managed 3d view when those crazy images where around where you could presumably see 3d out of that chaos
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20:01	iqualfragile	if you want 3d you can just use those red-cyan glasses
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20:03	Calinou	hi
20:03	ShadowNinja	Any ops around?
20:05	Calinou	ShadowNinja, why?
20:06	ShadowNinja	I want to restart my bot, I thought they would want to re-op it.
20:06		iqualfragile1 joined #minetest
20:06	Calinou	how do you restart it?
20:07	ShadowNinja	I send it the quit command or Control-C it.
20:07	ShadowNinja	Then re-run it.
20:07	ShadowNinja	But I guess you will op it?
20:08	ShadowNinja	Calinou: ^
20:08	Calinou	yes?
20:08	Calinou	do it :P
20:08	ShadowNinja	Will you re-op it?
20:09	Calinou	yes
20:09	ShadowNinja	ShadowBot: quit
20:09		ShadowBot joined #minetest
20:16	* john_minetest	always has got 2 hammes, one large screwdriver and a pair of tongs on his desk </random>
20:17	sfan5	ParseError: No opening tag found for "random"
20:17	* Calinou	gives john_minetest an HR-02 Macho
20:18	Calinou	now put it on your CPU, using your large screwdriver
20:18	Calinou	:> <: :>
20:18	Calinou	sfan5, you're slow to parse things
20:18	ShadowNinja	Calinou: Still oped.
20:18		ttk2 joined #minetest
20:19	sfan5	Calinou: it uses brainfuck to parse XML, hence the slowness
20:19	Calinou	the HR-02 Macho is infamous for being very hard to install :P
20:19	Calinou	you need a very long screwdriver or tiny fingers to fix it easily
20:20	* Calinou	has a true spirit 140 anyway
20:20	ShadowNinja	sfan5: ,,(bf "+++[<.]")
20:20	ShadowBot	ShadowNinja: Error: Segmentation fault: Negative memory pointer.
20:20	Calinou	same brand, but thinner heatsink, performance is slightly better at the cost of 17cm height and not 16cm
20:20	Calinou	few cases can receive 17cm heatsink/fan
20:20	Calinou	mine can
20:20	ShadowNinja	:-(
20:20		ImQ009 joined #minetest
20:20	sfan5	,,(bf "+[.+]")
20:21	Calinou	ImQ009, "certianly", wasn't it "certainly" before? :P
20:21	ShadowBot	sfan5: Error: Tried to output invalid character: 1114112
20:21	sfan5	test ,,(bf "+[.+]")
20:21	ShadowBot	sfan5: Error: Tried to output invalid character: 1114112
20:21	ShadowNinja	sfan5: It ignores everyone but me.
20:21	sfan5	ShadowNinja: you made a 32bit implementation? wat?
20:21	sfan5	+brainfuck
20:21	ImQ009	Calinou is an op. Better run
20:21	ShadowNinja	Maybe.
20:22	Calinou	/kick ImQ009
20:22		MinetestBot joined #minetest
20:22	* ShadowBot	sleeps
20:22	ShadowNinja	sfan5: That is when MinetestBot isn't around
20:22	Calinou	john_minetest, non-stock coolers are infinitely better than stock
20:22	Calinou	mine is about 30°C better than stock while being twice as quiet, easily
20:23	Calinou	also, no CPU can compile minetest in 0.1 seconds
20:23	Calinou	even an octacore xeon would take 20 seconds or so when overclocked :P
20:23	Calinou	and an octacore xeon costs €3500 :P
20:23	sfan5	,,(bf "+[,.]")
20:23	ShadowNinja	sfan5: MinetestBot is around, I could add you as a bot admin if you like.
20:24	sfan5	ShadowNinja: would be nice if you'd do that
20:24	* ImQ009	feels safe now
20:24	ShadowNinja	Ok, you will need to register with it first.
20:25	thexyz	Calinou: how about distcc?
20:25		shadowjay1 joined #minetest
20:25	Calinou	not counting distributed stuff
20:25	sfan5	ShadowBot hate me: <ShadowBot> You've given me 5 commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 5 minutes.
20:26	Calinou	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=89018#p89018
20:26	Calinou	nooo
20:26	Calinou	I'm playing that game right now :<
20:26	thexyz	Calinou: no fun
20:26	ShadowNinja	Note that unless you give MinetestBot the specific addressal feature or use a PM things like op will happen twice(But not op specificaly, that is just an example)
20:26	Calinou	thexyz, who said it was fun!
20:26	ShadowNinja	ShadowBot: admin ignore remove sfan5
20:26	ShadowBot	ShadowNinja: Error: sfan5!~sfan5minetest.ru wasn't in the ignores database.
20:26	ShadowNinja	ShadowBot: admin ignore list
20:26	ShadowBot	ShadowNinja: 'Rollem!~cinchc-71-197-240-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net' and '*!*@minetest.ru'
20:27	ShadowNinja	ShadowBot: admin ignore remove *!*@minetest.ru
20:27	ShadowBot	ShadowNinja: The operation succeeded.
20:27	ShadowNinja	sfan5: Try now.
20:27	sfan5	,,(bf "+[,.]")
20:27	sfan5	,,(bf "+++.")
20:27	sfan5	:/
20:27	ShadowNinja	No, registering.
20:28	sfan5	how?
20:28	ShadowNinja	/msg ShadowBot help register
20:28	sfan5	done
20:30		sapier joined #minetest
20:31	ShadowNinja	sfan5: Now try running commands on it.
20:31	sfan5	,,(bf "+++.")
20:31	sfan5	:/
20:31	ShadowNinja	sfan5: How about now.
20:31	sfan5	,,(bf "+++.")
20:32	ShadowNinja	*sigh* It must require the owner capability, and I can't add that without shuting down the bot and setting it manualy.
20:33	ShadowNinja	(security feature)
20:33	ShadowNinja	Well I can ,,(channel capability add sfan5 op)
20:33	ShadowBot	ShadowNinja: The operation succeeded.
20:34	ShadowNinja	Now you can use ShadowBot's op command.
20:34	STHGOM	bye
20:36	* ShadowBot	wakes up
20:37	Calinou	*kernel panic*
20:40	thexyz	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5906
20:41	Warr1024	ha, nice.
20:43	Calinou	lol
20:44	Calinou	PilzAdam, about bookshelves, try not to be another eihrul
20:46	Calinou	(this is a game afterall)
20:53		MinetestBot joined #minetest
20:53	* ShadowBot	sleeps
20:54	iqualfragile1	nice server
20:56	iqualfragile1	reminds me of facebook: it forced me to log in and change my password latlely, it told me that somebody would have accessed my account. it showed me the ip: 10.124.35.14 or something similar
20:57	sapier	facebook lied to you  ... at least if not telling full truth is lieing :-) most likely they did know name of whom logged in
20:58	ShadowNinja	sfan5: You should register MinetestBot with NickServ.
20:58	sapier	lol
21:01	sfan5	MinetestBot: quit
21:01	* ShadowBot	wakes up
21:01		MinetestBot joined #minetest
21:01	* ShadowBot	sleeps
21:01	MinetestBot	hi guys, i'm the new bot
21:03	* ShadowBot	wakes up
21:03	ShadowNinja	sfan5: Is it grouped?
21:04	sfan5	no
21:04	ShadowNinja	OK, good.
21:05	sfan5	why are you asking?
21:05	ShadowNinja	I was just wondering.
21:05	sfan5	did you group ShadowBot to ShadowNinja ?
21:06		MinetestBot joined #minetest
21:06	* ShadowBot	sleeps
21:07	sfan5	* [MinetestBot] is logged in as MinetestBot
21:07	ShadowNinja	No, if I had I would be auto-oped in half a dozed channels.
21:07	sfan5	ok, I also didn't like MinetestBot to use my personal password
21:07	sfan5	celeron55_: please auto-op MinetestBot
21:07	sfan5	(if you want to)
21:08	ShadowNinja	And ShadowBot :-)
21:08	* sfan5	is now going to sleep
21:08	ShadowNinja	Actually ShadowBot could replace MinetestBot and loggingbot_.
21:08	sfan5	"could"
21:09	ShadowNinja	You would just have to get irc.minetest.ru to read it's log files.
21:09	ShadowNinja	I don't know how loggingbot_ writes them so I don't know how hard that would be.
21:12	thexyz	insanely
21:13	ShadowNinja	thexyz: How does it write them?
21:13	PilzAdam	ShadowNinja, http://irc.minetest.ru/text.pl?channel=minetest;date=2013-05-08
21:14	thexyz	ShadowNinja: directly into MySQL database
21:15		kaeza joined #minetest
21:15	thexyz	why do we need loggingbot_ replacement?
21:16	ShadowNinja	Hmmm, ShadowBot has support for sqlite, and probably MySQL. I think it would be nice to have one bot instead of three.
21:16	PilzAdam	I see no reason to replace it
21:16	ShadowNinja	By default it writes to a text file.
21:20	sokomine	as long as the bots do not start talking amongst themshelves...
21:22	kaeza	^ what would be fun actually
21:22	kaeza	hi all
21:23	sokomine	hi kaeza
21:23	khonkhortisan	bot1: Tell everyone where the new server is. bot2: A new server showed up at...
21:24	sokomine	it has to get recursive to get intresting :-)
21:25		Gambit joined #minetest
21:25	sokomine	hi gambit
21:25	Gambit	Hm?
21:25	Gambit	Hi.
21:29	ShadowNinja	sokomine: Imposible, at least with ShadowBot, it is smarter than that.
21:30		Gambit left #minetest
21:33	ShadowNinja	Well switching to MySQL would be hard, harder that switching the website to files.
21:35	thexyz	well, so what's the point?
21:37	ShadowNinja	Nothing, I won't write a front-end unless you want it, so loggingbot_ will remain, although MinetestBot could still be replaced.
21:41		leo_rockway joined #minetest
21:57	VanessaE	hi
21:59		Menche joined #minetest
22:02		Menche joined #minetest
22:05	sokomine	hi
22:11		Kacey joined #minetest
22:11		Kacey joined #minetest
22:17	EduardeCalibal	Wow... My debug file have more tha 200MB.  :-o
22:18	EduardeCalibal	How I disable this?
22:18	PilzAdam	debug_log_level = 0
22:18	PilzAdam	in minetest.conf
22:18	sapier	200mb? very small :-) mine ia >1gb most of time ;-)
22:18	EduardeCalibal	Thanks.  :D
22:18	ShadowNinja	EduardeCalibal: 1.1G before I cleared it.
22:18	EduardeCalibal	:-o
22:18	EduardeCalibal	AFK
22:30	VanessaE	EduardeCalibal: you don't want to disable the debug log - just delete it when it gets too big.
22:32	EduardeCalibal	I only see it now...  I will enable when have trouble and disable after solve my problems...  New police.  :D
22:32	EduardeCalibal	AFK
22:39	khonkhortisan	Deleting only says you can put other stuff over it, such as a new debug.txt
22:40	Menche	lol, specialties mod put 1410 small files in my map dir
22:40	Menche	there has got to be a better way to do that
22:41	VanessaE	small files consisting of what?
22:41	iqualfragile1	mine is at 514mb right now
22:41	Menche	information about specialties
22:41	sokomine	for how many players?
22:42	Menche	each player has a file for each of the 5 specialtis
22:42	VanessaE	for 1410 of them I guess :)
22:42	Menche	*specialties
22:42	VanessaE	oh heh
22:42		NekoGloop joined #minetest
22:42	sokomine	no, that would be too few :-) 5 files per user sounds worse :-)
22:42	NekoGloop	Hi fools.
22:42	sokomine	hi nekogloop
22:43	VanessaE	eek, my debug logs are 1.2GB for my client and 3.1GB for the server.  Time to zero those out :)
22:43	sokomine	still a lot of players
22:43	NekoGloop	And I'm out.
22:43		NekoGloop left #minetest
22:43	Menche	specialties files seems to be 4.0K each
22:44	sokomine	sure? guessing from your complaint, i guess they might contain only one number each.....or do they just add to a file? 4 k might be minimal filesystem size
22:45	Menche	lol, each file only contains 1 number
22:45	sokomine	so i guessed right :-)
22:45	VanessaE	seems like a better idea would be five files - each containing a list of players that have that particular specialty
22:45	sokomine	the repair-picks-function is quite nice
22:45	ShadowNinja	Menche: I can't get Minetest to compile on Arch linux, do you still use it?
22:45	Menche	or a file that contains lua tables
22:46	Menche	about minetest on arch, i have to delete minetest.conf frequently
22:46	Menche	or it segfaults
22:46	sapier	maybe we should add world specific settings
22:46	sokomine	afaik everyone has every speciality he/she has ever done anything in, that is: mined once? got points there. cut down trees? points for tree-cutting. and so on
22:47	ShadowNinja	Well my build fails, the AUR install seems to work, the error is No rule to make target `/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so', needed by `bin/minetestserver'.  Stop.
22:47	sokomine	or a general way to save mod data in some form of database or whatever. no point in having a mod author to wonder how and where to store the data
22:47	Menche	i use the AUR build
22:48	Menche	it segfaults frequently
22:52	ShadowNinja	Well AUR build is better than no build I guess.
22:52	thexyz	Kray: update pkgbuild, please
22:53	thexyz	it should download common, survival and build now
22:53	thexyz	no need for minetest_game anymore
22:53	PilzAdam	thexyz, we probably drop survial and build
22:53	PilzAdam	and common
22:53	thexyz	um
22:53	sokomine	hm. why?
22:53	PilzAdam	and move back to minetest_game only
22:53	sokomine	the idea wasn't bad. it just needs to be extended
22:54	PilzAdam	c55 called it a "failed experiemnt"
22:54	* Menche	is for going to back just 1 game
22:54	thexyz	Kray: okay, forget it
22:54	sokomine	and the existance of other "games" needs to be made more clear
22:54	PilzAdam	and thats basically what it is
22:54	VanessaE	ditto
22:55	VanessaE	one official game is enough imho.
22:55	sokomine	will the game.conf where you can easily enable/disable mods from common remain?
22:55	ShadowNinja	common was a great idea IMO, maybe not survival and build
22:55	Menche	i say just remove common
22:55	sapier	imho common is a very bad idea as most "normal" users don't have any idea how to get it
22:56	ShadowNinja	Common allows for removing a lot of redundant folders and having everything update at once.
22:56	Menche	and if you want a different "default" mod than provided by common...? you have to make your own, so it doesn't really make anything easier
22:56	sapier	in theory ... in praxis users don't have any idea where to put what
22:57	sokomine	maybe moving common into the main minetest folder so that it gets downloaded alongside?
22:57	VanessaE	praxis?  practice*
22:57	ShadowNinja	Menche: Most won't, those that do will make a copy and remove it from the list.
22:57	Menche	there's a lot of stuff in common
22:57	ShadowNinja	Although I can't think of a good reason to do that.
22:57		theTroy joined #minetest
22:57	Menche	a lot of people will want a different default mod
22:58	sapier	we need a simple way to add mods ... imho core should handle this
22:58	ShadowNinja	Menche: Then write a mydefault mod that changes the nodes or whatever.
22:58	Menche	common has a lot of stuff that isn't necessarily "common"
22:58	sapier	maybe add a "add mod" menu which supports some common formats e.g zip/tar.gz containing a single mod / modpack / game folder
22:58	Menche	ShadowNinja: which removes the purpose for common, if you write your own
22:58	iqualfragile1	when an database containing the mods is used that would be simplified as the user would not need to care about the exact folders anymore
22:59	sokomine	menche: what do you mean specificly?
22:59	sapier	yes but creating a database is an idea floating around for more than a year now not getting any closer to realization
22:59	ShadowNinja	Menche: No, you can still include a lot of other mods, and I was saying that you should write a new mod, not modify the original.
23:00	Menche	if you don't like [insert controversial change], you have to use your own default mod
23:00	Menche	ShadowNinja: there's no way to modify the original common mods :P
23:00	Menche	besides making your own copy, which misses the point of common
23:01	ShadowNinja	Menche: I mean re-register the node for example.
23:01	Menche	re-defining tons of nodes would get pretty messy, IMO
23:01	sokomine	hmm. but that's only relevant for people who already know what they do. new users or those who just want to play most likely won't know how to (or have reason to) change their common mods
23:01	sapier	what about a mintest core administrated mod storage storing mods added through gui?
23:02	Menche	any gui stuff should also have a non-gui version
23:02	ShadowNinja	Menche: If you are changing a lot just don't include default, but most games will leave default alone.
23:02	Menche	ShadowNinja: cue tons of mods with next to no differences
23:02	Menche	s/mods/games/
23:03	sapier	true but non gui stuff is useless for the well known normal user
23:03	Menche	and gui stuff is useless for server owners without guis :P
23:03	ShadowNinja	Menche: Perhaps, but removing common won't stop that.
23:03	sapier	now lets compare server owner numbers to normal player numbers
23:04	sapier	and btw server owners don't have any problem with current way of doing it so they're not main target for a change like that
23:04	Menche	not against gui options, i'm against gui options that don't have non-gui alternatives
23:05	sapier	won't be  a problem to add .. just not something that is of any interest when trying to add a user friendly way of adding mods
23:06	* Menche	doesn't think there's a reason for the minetest_game, build, and survival games to be separate
23:06	Menche	there's not that much difference between them
23:07	Menche	build and survival each have one mod of their own and survival has fewer mods included
23:07	Exio	there was a pull request for making common mods "general", - that would be useful for "external moding"
23:08	sapier	make games managed by core itself if there are mods added with colliding folder names make core compute md5 sum to store both
23:08	VanessaE	I say just dump it all back into minetest_game.  Let the user decide if it's survival or creative or whatever by way of the extra mods they install
23:08	* Menche	agrees with VanessaE
23:09		kaeza joined #minetest
23:09	Menche	is there a way to install a mod for all games?
23:09	sapier	what about changing "game" from separate folder to configuration file which mods should be loaded?
23:10	PilzAdam	VanessaE, thats the plan
23:12		NekoGloop joined #minetest
23:13	NekoGloop	Woah. Woah. Adam is admitting he did something wrong.
23:13	kaeza	wb NekoGloop
23:13	NekoGloop	I never left.
23:14	PilzAdam	NekoGloop, I still want to see your list of suggestions
23:14	NekoGloop	I still want you to come up with your own ideas.
23:15	Menche	so when you download minetest and start the only available game, you're greeted with a message that basically says "this isn't the real thing. use [minetest_game]."
23:16	Menche	that doesn't seem right.
23:16	Menche	*especially* because minetest_game isn't included.
23:16	PilzAdam	*if you downloda the minetest engine
23:16	NekoGloop	Seems legit.
23:16	PilzAdam	*download
23:16	NekoGloop	After all, they aren't making a game, they're making an engine.
23:16	PilzAdam	if you download the Linux kernel you dont have a complete OS
23:16	VanessaE	Menche: well you mean the "minimal" game.  I'd actually agree with that
23:17	PilzAdam	NekoGloop, actually we are doing both
23:17	VanessaE	is there any *real* reason that we don't ship minetest_game with the engine?  I mean, seriously?
23:17	thexyz	Menche: seriously?
23:17	PilzAdam	seriously?
23:17	thexyz	you learned to download things from github and compile them
23:17	PilzAdam	(had to say this)
23:17	khonkhortisan	seriously.
23:18	thexyz	but still cannot manage to get minetest_game
23:18	Menche	lol, i know how to get minetest game, i'm just saying it looks tacky
23:18	PilzAdam	if you read the README to learn how to compile, the first thing you read is "get minetest_game and place it in games/"
23:18	iqualfragile1	ok, that are two different usecases
23:18	thexyz	i agree, reading is a hard task
23:19	iqualfragile1	if someone has enought brain to compile minetest he is very likely to have enought to rtfm
23:19	NekoGloop	(the real reason that they're seperate is so that they can put them under seperate adf.ly or similar links to get more money)
23:19	Menche	"step 1: download another folder from over there"
23:19	iqualfragile1	NekoGloop: more money? they dont get any money at all
23:19	Menche	"cuz we're too lazy to ship it"
23:19	iqualfragile1	in fact they are putting a shitload of work and evenen some bits of money (celeron55 and thexyz have rent servers) in it
23:20	NekoGloop	precisely.
23:20	PilzAdam	Menche, you might have noticed that we do distribute Minetest with minetest_game included?
23:20	thexyz	typically you don't need to download anything but officialâ„¢ package
23:20	thexyz	which already includes all stuff you need
23:20	PilzAdam	Menche, the only way to get Minetest without minetest_game is, if you download the engine source code
23:21	iqualfragile1	yeah, thats the other usecase: players who just download the game and there its included, so i dont get whats the problem
23:21	PilzAdam	and people who want to do that, can read the README
23:21	NekoGloop	"And I'll be a prissy little bitch about it hehehehehe" <-- my impression of PilzAdam
23:22	PilzAdam	there are also people that want only the engine, not the default game for it
23:22	PilzAdam	you can save some bandwith when seperating it
23:22	VanessaE	meh
23:22	VanessaE	bandwidth and storage are cheap
23:22	* Menche	splits his mod into 30 different files
23:22	thexyz	NekoGloop: plz stop your stupid trolling, thx
23:22	PilzAdam	VanessaE, actually no
23:23	sapier	ppl don't read the README unless it's callt DO_NOT_README
23:23	sapier	called
23:23	Menche	when someone complains, I'll say "well the README told you where to download all 30 files, rtfm"
23:23	VanessaE	PilzAdam: maybe where you are I guess, but for most people, it's true.
23:23	sapier	and the one will answer "are you crazy?"
23:23	VanessaE	besides, minetest_game is only 1.6MB
23:24	PilzAdam	Menche, your example is bad; a proper one would splitting Simple Mobs into several mods like: coreAPI, animals, monsters, other_stuff
23:24	VanessaE	the engine is 90! MB.
23:24	VanessaE	does that extra 1.6MB really matter?
23:24	VanessaE	(I realize a lot of that is git history, but the ratios should be similar for the current commits alone)
23:24	sapier	btw mobf is already split up this way ;-)
23:24	iqualfragile1	hey, guys great idea: why dont we put all the mods existing into the minetest github repository
23:24	thexyz	i lost it, what are you guys arguing about?
23:24	kaeza	most linux games offer a separate -data package
23:24	PilzAdam	VanessaE, with git history minetest_game is 23 MiB
23:25	iqualfragile1	no need to split different things into different repositories
23:25	VanessaE	PilzAdam: my copy of minetest_game is a git clone, and is 1.6MB.
23:25	Menche	"this mod now provides an api. therefore the actual content is available as 5 very similar, separate downloads"
23:25	thexyz	including minetest_game into minetest? won't happen
23:25	PilzAdam	VanessaE, how many remotes have you set up?
23:25	iqualfragile1	lets just put them all together and dont forget to add the code for the minetest website!
23:25	VanessaE	PilzAdam: afaik it's just straight, or maybe with one extra remote in it
23:25	VanessaE	which is how most people would receive it
23:25	sapier	maybe we should first define what we want to have? an experimental game engine just usable for a few ppl or a working game to be played by unskilled ppl
23:25	PilzAdam	ok, I have 16 remotes set up and fetched (due to merging)
23:26	VanessaE	that would be why yours is 23MB :)
23:26	VanessaE	thexyz: why not?  what stops that from happening?
23:26	PilzAdam	first you want to make clear that engine and games are seperated, now you want to merge them all together
23:26	kaeza	it makes it easier to work on the game "data" files
23:27	thexyz	devs will
23:27	thexyz	(i.e. me)
23:27	VanessaE	*facepalm*
23:27	VanessaE	I said "what", not "who".
23:27	sapier	no things should not be merged but there should be a release version containing both
23:27	thexyz	oh, sorry
23:27	kaeza	no need to download the engine source/binaries if the data is updated
23:27	PilzAdam	VanessaE, the git history will be completly messed up
23:28	PilzAdam	if you keep track of your issue tracker, sure, go ahead
23:28	kaeza	and viceversa
23:28	VanessaE	PilzAdam: that's what I'd have preferred, but it's clearly impossible to separate them in the minds of the userbase.
23:28	thexyz	treat me like "it" for a moment then
23:28	PilzAdam	thexyz, I always do
23:28	VanessaE	hah!
23:28	NekoGloop	I am "cat"
23:29	PilzAdam	NekoGloop, you are a programm to print files to the terminal?
23:29	VanessaE	well whatever, it's no big deal for me to pull (or re-clone) when something is updated.  I'm just thinking of your average user who barely knows how to download to begin with.
23:29	Menche	ShadowNinja: back to archlinux, i just built minetest manually without any problems
23:29	NekoGloop	shits_to_give.txt : nothing to print
23:29	PilzAdam	VanessaE, they most likely download the win build
23:29	thexyz	VanessaE: average user will download http://minetest.ru/builds/minetest-0.4.6.zip
23:29	PilzAdam	and that has minetest_game packaged
23:30	VanessaE	well, probably.
23:30	VanessaE	though I'd hope they'll at least download the latest builds, not some rusted-out "stable" release :)
23:30	PilzAdam	if they are more advanced they will download my win build :-)
23:30	thexyz	definitely, not probably
23:30	thexyz	PilzAdam: do you have any download stats?
23:30	sapier	VanessaE why release "stable" versions if they should download latest?
23:31	NekoGloop	because stable is 400+ commits ago
23:31	VanessaE	sapier: because with this project, "stable" equates to "old and outdated" in about a week's time :)
23:31	PilzAdam	thexyz, http://ompldr.org/iaWEzag
23:31	sapier	and where is the real argument?
23:31	thexyz	sapier: they only will in VanessaE's mind
23:31	PilzAdam	thats the last one that I uploaded to omploader
23:31	PilzAdam	does dropbox has stats?
23:31	thexyz	PilzAdam: how about dropbox one?
23:31		Warr10241 joined #minetest
23:31	sapier	development will always be ahead of stable ... in features as well as in bugs
23:32	VanessaE	thexyz: spoken like someone who has forgotten what it's like to be an average user.
23:32	sapier	currently no one maintains stable to fix critical bugs ... imho this is main problem with currents minetest releas scheme
23:32	NekoGloop	those aren't bugs, they're features.
23:32	VanessaE	should they download the engine sources?  maybe not.  Should they get the latest *build*?  fuck yeah.
23:33	thexyz	okay, let's see
23:33	sapier	why don't you download latest git tree of linux vanessae?
23:33	PilzAdam	thexyz, seems like dropbox doesnt have download stats :-/
23:33	VanessaE	sapier: because I gave up on gentoo years ago? ;)
23:33	sapier	so why do you expect ppl to do this for something that superfluss as minetest?
23:33	VanessaE	eh?
23:34	thexyz	the official©™ minetest 0.4.6 was downloaded 28699 times
23:34	sapier	sorry but your "always" latest is silly for players as well as for modders
23:34	thexyz	the PilzAdam's cutting edge one was downloaded 53 times
23:34	VanessaE	I said twice, and I quote, "the latest build".
23:34	sapier	how should someone ever release a stable mod if testing against a moving target? this will work for some mods replacing different nodes but won't work for any complex mod
23:35	sapier	latest build should always be latest stable
23:35	PilzAdam	sapier, well, there are two "complex mods": mobf and mesecons
23:35	PilzAdam	(maybe technic too)
23:35	VanessaE	a moving target?  um, if you've got issues with shit disappearing from one release to another, you've got a bigger problem on you hands.
23:35	sapier	and?
23:35	VanessaE	your*
23:35	kaeza	sapier, have two downloads for mods: one "stable" that works in MT stable, and one for dev. end of story
23:35	PilzAdam	all the others can keep easily track what new dev features they add
23:36	sapier	It took about two weeks to test mobf against 0.4.6 and still some bugs are left
23:36	PilzAdam	kaeza, tags or branches in the git repo for example
23:36	kaeza	PilzAdam, exactly
23:36	thexyz	so, in the end, it's safe to assume most users use stable builds
23:36	sapier	it's just imposible to recheck every 2 weeks for compatibility
23:37	thexyz	and those who don't are experienced enough to switch to stable one when needed
23:37	PilzAdam	people are just too lazy to care about compatibility while coding a mod
23:37	kaeza	sapier, read what I said
23:37	* VanessaE	shrugs
23:37	thexyz	yes, sure
23:37	Warr10241	it's not like you have to wait for any version to be "released" before you can start coding and testing a mod against it...
23:37	kaeza	I plan to start doing thins once 0.4.7 (0.5.0 [1.0.0]???) is released
23:37	thexyz	just maintain 2 versions
23:37	* iqualfragile1	compiles the latest git of linux
23:37	thexyz	then 3
23:38	thexyz	then 4 and so on
23:38	NekoGloop	I'm playing minetest 4.6
23:38	NekoGloop	fuck all y'all I'm a time traveller
23:38	thexyz	it's not like you don't have enough free time to maintain all those versions
23:38	iqualfragile1	wasnt minetest 4.6 released some weeks ago?
23:38	PilzAdam	iqualfragile1, no
23:38	Warr10241	thexyz: that's what "end of life" is for.
23:39	iqualfragile1	oh, ok
23:39	PilzAdam	it will be released in some years
23:39	sapier	currently stable is eol once next commit is added
23:39	kaeza	sapier, "stable" is "stable"
23:39	VanessaE	sapier: more like about 2-3 weeks after stable is out, on average I'd say
23:39	kaeza	once a commit is made, "stable" keeps being "stable"
23:39	VanessaE	stable is "rusted-out", git is "new hotness" :-)
23:40	PilzAdam	kaeza, 0.4.6 "stable" is the most unstable thing I have ever seen
23:40	NekoGloop	MiB ftw
23:40	sapier	i believe critical bugs should be fixed in stable until next stable is released
23:40	iqualfragile1	oh, it occurs to me that i have forgotten a zero
23:40	thexyz	woo! https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-May/037074.html
23:40	thexyz	rip
23:40	PilzAdam	iqualfragile1, and a dot :-p
23:40	sapier	where no new festures should be added to stable
23:40	NekoGloop	VanessaE, MiB ftw
23:40	VanessaE	NekoGloop: of course :)
23:40	Warr10241	true in principle, but who shall be responsible for backporting fixes against stable?
23:41	kaeza	PilzAdam, I'm not actually talking about stability, but about versions
23:41	NekoGloop	Can I deneuralize Adam so he shuts the fuck up?
23:41	sapier	have a look at current mod releases next to no one really tells you what version the mod is working for ... and finding a mod compatible to 0.4.6 is already complicated yet ...
23:41	* Menche	is liking the new media progress bar
23:41	PilzAdam	NekoGloop, yes, but its a bit more complicated
23:41	iqualfragile1	NekoGloop: what about you shutting the fuck up
23:41	VanessaE	the problem with "stable" is that too many users are having problems running it because of shiny new mods that depend on some new feature that's almost never in a stable build.
23:41	PilzAdam	NekoGloop, first step, install Linux
23:41	NekoGloop	Hey I'm the quiet one here.
23:42	Warr10241	if minetest has a stable and a dev branch, then it only makes sense to me that each mod built against it should have a stable and a dev branch...?
23:42	iqualfragile1	VanessaE: that could be solved if minetest would care about installing mods
23:42	kaeza	sapier, then make a rule that mods in mod releases must provide separate links
23:42	kaeza	or some shit like that
23:42	PilzAdam	VanessaE, the problem is that mod devs always almost immediatly throw the new features from the dev version in
23:42	VanessaE	PilzAdam: and this is a problem.....why?
23:43	sapier	vanessae so you prefere shiny new mobs that noone ever will get a working set without trying for hours to having at least a stable set
23:43	NekoGloop	read: the mod developers expect people to actually know how to minetest
23:43	sapier	-mobs +mods
23:43	PilzAdam	VanessaE, so everyone is forced to use the dev version of the engine too, to run the mods
23:43	iqualfragile1	as long as there is an old version for the stable versions its no problem
23:43	Menche	am I the only one who uses the latest git exclusively?
23:43	kaeza	Menche, nope
23:43	iqualfragile1	no, we all do
23:43	VanessaE	sapier: strange, I seem to have a pretty stable set of mods on my server - all 53 of them seem to behave together
23:43	sapier	kaeza that would be an option yes but I don't have authority to demand
23:43	Menche	making it sound like everyone uses only stable
23:43	iqualfragile1	but we are thinking aboutthe 20000 others who dont
23:43	VanessaE	PilzAdam: and getting the latest dev build is trivial, is it not?
23:43	PilzAdam	<iqualfragile1> as long as there is an old version for the stable versions its no problem <- there isnt, in most cases
23:44	VanessaE	how many unofficial buidls are there now?  Four or five?
23:44	sapier	vanessae you should think about how much time you spend in chat and forum
23:44	iqualfragile1	PilzAdam: that will be solved soon
23:44	sapier	next to none of those "normal" users are willing to spend even thenth of that time
23:44	thexyz	VanessaE: read my message regarding the number of downloads once again
23:44	VanessaE	thexyz: number of downloads means exactly dick, and you know it.
23:44	thexyz	how come
23:44	kaeza	sapier, so if you are ok, we can request this from forum moderators/admins, to be implemented in the near future
23:44	PilzAdam	VanessaE, the problem is that we ruin our own stable releases with this; and we have many people running with incompatible versions arround
23:44	VanessaE	how do you expect people to *find* those unofficial builds if they arne't linked from the main website?
23:45	thexyz	that!
23:45	thexyz	i don't
23:45	sapier	that would be at least an improovement kaeza
23:45	Menche	so, 2 official builds, 3 unofficial builds, 2 unofficial build instructions
23:45	VanessaE	then why do you expect your download stats to be even close to accurate if you're trying to compare a main-site-linked build against the unofficial ones?
23:45	iqualfragile1	well, there is a big asymetry between  28699 downloads on the one hand and 100 peple in irc and 1000 in the forums on the other side
23:45	Menche	(that's just counting the stickied unofficial builds)
23:46	PilzAdam	VanessaE, my builds are linked from the main page
23:46	sapier	still moders would have to change behaviour from moving fast forward forgetting about stable version once a new feature is added telling users only "oh that bug take latest version its fixed there" to a little bit more maintenance
23:46	thexyz	VanessaE: wait, wait
23:47	thexyz	do you mean more people actually use unofficial builds?
23:47	PilzAdam	I cant even remember where this discussion started
23:47	PilzAdam	thus, it is useless
23:47	thexyz	they actually are linked from the main website
23:47	thexyz	http://minetest.net/download
23:47	sapier	no it's not it's about aim of minetest
23:48	PilzAdam	sapier, well, it gives a nice impression about what the irc part of the community thinks
23:48	PilzAdam	but its useless if you expect real results from it
23:49	thexyz	iqualfragile1: hmmm?
23:49	Menche	so, you say discussion on irc is useless, discussion on the forums is useless, where is discussion useful?
23:49	VanessaE	oh I give up already
23:49	sapier	of course ;-) but some of latest development decistions have been at least not best ... and seam to be already on it's way to be corrected
23:49	PilzAdam	Menche, no, this particular discussion is useless
23:49	sapier	decisions
23:49	PilzAdam	because we moved offtopic
23:49	iqualfragile1	thexyz: "hmmm?"?
23:49	PilzAdam	IIRC we were talking about minetest_game being merged into the engine
23:50	kaeza	oh hell, let's not start this crap again
23:50	thexyz	iqualfragile1: > well, there is a big asymetry between  28699 downloads on the one hand and 100 peple in irc and 1000 in the forums on the other side
23:50	Menche	now the discussion seems to be about the confusing number of different builds and versions
23:50	iqualfragile1	if it was about my latest statement: the big number are the players, the small numbers are the people who would put some work into getting everything to run
23:50	iqualfragile1	feedback?: http://imgur.com/n9Skr5G
23:51	* Menche	was going to suggest something about mods, but would probably be eaten alive for going offtopic
23:51	sapier	I try to get my brother to play minetest for some time his only answer is "its to complicated to set it up"
23:51	sapier	and he is right
23:51	Warr10241	it is?
23:51	sapier	if you're a normal user only capable of using a appstore (which most users are) you'll never succeed in setting up minetest
23:52	thexyz	sapier: really?
23:52	sapier	not even a documentation will change that
23:52	sapier	yes
23:52	thexyz	well
23:52	Menche	why not have an official full game download for each of windoze, mac, and linux, i686 and x86_64
23:52	Warr10241	I didn't have much trouble setting it up myself, and I had to port it to my OS first...
23:52	PilzAdam	sapier, well, my brother says: "Das ist doch wieder so ne Linux sch****"
23:52	thexyz	i'm disappointed
23:52	kaeza	sapier, agreed
23:52	sapier	i don't suggest an appstore
23:52	VanessaE	and I stand corrected, didn't realize sfan, PA, and xyz's builds were linked from the main page.
23:52	Warr10241	:-)
23:52	sapier	no my brother uses linux
23:52	thexyz	clicking a link and downloading a .zip archive
23:52	thexyz	then unzipping it
23:52	sapier	just he's not a hacker like us but a user only
23:52	thexyz	must be really hard
23:53	Menche	before you troll about having 100s of distros, it *is* possible to make a binary that runs on most if not all
23:53	kaeza	my nephew started using minetest, and it was also his response
23:53	PilzAdam	sapier, cant be, "users" dont use Linux .-)
23:53	PilzAdam	*:-)
23:53	sapier	unzipping minetest starting and running is quite dissapointing once you've seen al those screenshots in forum
23:53	Warr10241	Just make a bootable ISO download with a tested, pre-approved linux distro built in that launches directly into minetest.
23:53	thexyz	won't work
23:53	sapier	pilzadam just get into present time linux is most common used os for about 5 years now
23:54	kaeza	Warr1024, that's a bit extreme
23:54	thexyz	better sell usb drives
23:54	Warr10241	I'm running it on OpenBSD myself.
23:54	ShadowNinja	Warr10241: Already done.
23:54	Warr10241	yeah, it's a pretty easy port.
23:54	Warr10241	someone needs to make it official :-)
23:55	iqualfragile1	Warr10241 you woulnd be able to port it to darwin, would you?
23:55	thexyz	the very same users will complain about unobviousness of where to put in those usb drives and how to boot them up
23:55	sapier	and most important problem is how to explain ppl not having any idea what a folder is how to install a mod to a specific folder (more complicated there are different possibilitys where to install)
23:55	iqualfragile1	then lets just add an appstore to minetest
23:55	Warr1024	iqualfragile1: I wouldn't know, don't have a Darwin machine handy...
23:56	ShadowNinja	We should add a mod/game manager.
23:56	VanessaE	when I was growing up, you were expected to understand computers in *detail*...wtf happened?
23:56	sapier	and don't tell me "if they don't understand what a folder is..." this is a useless discussion folder concept is not obvious for current users
23:56	iqualfragile1	VanessaE: america!
23:57	Warr1024	A mod install tool might be nice
23:57	thexyz	folder concept isn't obvious for me either
23:57	sapier	vanessae knowledge about computers is not required anymore you just need to know how to use them
23:57	VanessaE	sapier: if they don't understand what a folder is, they need to get the fuck off the computer and go learn.
23:57	thexyz	directories are much easier to understand
23:57	iqualfragile1	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxroiTRg7Tg
23:57	Menche	VanessaE: YES.
23:57	sapier	have you ever seen a directory on your android phone? ... not even windows has real directorys anymore
23:58	Warr1024	lol @ "not even windows" :-)
23:58	kaeza	related: making the engine ignore the folder/directory name would help a lot with newbies
23:58	VanessaE	kaeza: +100000
23:58	Warr1024	sapier: you might be right about the android phone issue, but I'm still waiting for that port to come out :-)
23:58	iqualfragile1	im sorry but what is the difference between folders and directories?
23:58	thexyz	http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?IdiotProofProcess
23:58	thexyz	sorry
23:59	kaeza	too many complaints because the mod doesn't work because the directory is named "foouser-foomod-master"
23:59	Menche	why does minetest not allow dashes in modnames?
23:59	thexyz	iqualfragile1: forget it, only inodes are real
23:59	sapier	there's no real difference iqualfragile

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