| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:16 |
* Jordach |
reconstructs the sunrise texture algo in Lua |
| 00:21 |
BillyS |
Hmm |
| 00:21 |
BillyS |
Does inv:set_size clear the list |
| 00:21 |
BillyS |
? |
| 00:24 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 00:24 |
rubenwardy |
you want set_list("name", {}) |
| 00:33 |
Jordach |
lmao wtf |
| 00:34 |
Jordach |
whoever designed the sunrise maths is either a genius or someone didn't reuse it elsewhere |
| 02:16 |
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| 06:04 |
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| 06:38 |
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| 07:33 |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:07 |
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| 10:51 |
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| 11:35 |
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| 11:42 |
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| 12:02 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 13:15 |
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| 13:24 |
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| 13:26 |
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| 13:32 |
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| 13:38 |
* tumeninodes |
is making some plans, working on bringing some Verne to the Minetest world |
| 13:39 |
tumeninodes |
and this is where some steampunk-ish-ness can/will come into play |
| 13:43 |
tumeninodes |
so Google calls their latest round of garbage "improvements/updates" they have killed the functionality and speed of gmail to add fancy eyecandy for the masses |
| 13:47 |
jas_ |
i like the index app for github anyway |
| 13:47 |
jas_ |
also use fasthub app.. |
| 13:47 |
jas_ |
uh, inbox* not index |
| 13:47 |
jas_ |
lol |
| 13:49 |
jas_ |
hm, that doesn't make the statement anyless off topic, tho huh.. i keep thinking [off] means off-topic lmao |
| 13:53 |
tumeninodes |
Mum :D |
| 13:53 |
jas_ |
ok |
| 13:54 |
jas_ |
so whatcha workin' on tumeni? |
| 13:54 |
tumeninodes |
I'm slowly switching over to tutanota but, the process is slow |
| 13:54 |
jas_ |
i hear steampunk, i liked the screenshots |
| 13:54 |
jas_ |
idk wat that is |
| 13:54 |
tumeninodes |
oh... the Vernian work I am planning out |
| 13:54 |
jas_ |
what texture sizes do you like working with? i take it you like much bigger than 16px? |
| 13:55 |
tumeninodes |
Gameplay based on Jules Verne |
| 13:55 |
jas_ |
excellent! |
| 13:55 |
tumeninodes |
I used to early on but have been sticking with 16px for a while now |
| 13:55 |
tumeninodes |
everything in those shots are 16px |
| 13:55 |
jas_ |
oic. i thought from the screenshots/videos it was higher. very nice builds/textures. oh wow, 16px huh |
| 13:56 |
jas_ |
good. it can be run multiplayer remotely? |
| 13:56 |
jas_ |
i mean, it won't be too big |
| 13:56 |
jas_ |
or require too much bandwidth |
| 13:57 |
tumeninodes |
but some Jules Verne stories could convert pretty well to games,texturepacks, etc |
| 13:57 |
jas_ |
oh, i imagined you doing a whole game |
| 13:57 |
tumeninodes |
that's what I am planning |
| 13:57 |
jas_ |
but you're right. it saddens me that A) games cannot ship with worlds, and B) there are no soundpacks. better to have archives with sounds/worlds/textures... all media, distributed as packs |
| 13:58 |
jas_ |
(you know, i know i beat a dead horse here but: doom wads did it first, and doom wads zipped up is how it's done elsewhere..) |
| 13:58 |
jas_ |
good to hear |
| 13:58 |
jas_ |
i really think minetest needs an archive format |
| 13:58 |
jas_ |
to pack all it's shit in |
| 13:58 |
jas_ |
call it, WAS |
| 13:58 |
jas_ |
where's all the shit? |
| 13:59 |
jas_ |
(WAD meant where's the data) |
| 13:59 |
jas_ |
or where's all the data, i think |
| 13:59 |
jas_ |
or at least to allow for soundpacks. humorously, i believe they are actually referenced in the docs |
| 13:59 |
jas_ |
but there's no way to actually do it? hold on, i'ma look |
| 14:00 |
tumeninodes |
Well, I think it could be done where each story can be put together as a game... with their own world, media... and then bundled them all together and call the bundle 'Vernian' or something idk just starting the plans now |
| 14:01 |
tumeninodes |
some of what nore and sofar did with ITB seems to work somewhat as you are talking |
| 14:02 |
tumeninodes |
I've talked about switching to 'media packs' for a while |
| 14:03 |
tumeninodes |
but talk don't get it done ;) |
| 14:03 |
jas_ |
(nevermind, i can't find it, i could swear i saw it tho) |
| 14:03 |
jas_ |
media packs yeah exactly |
| 14:03 |
jas_ |
well someone has to have the interest and ability |
| 14:03 |
jas_ |
if only there were a good issue for it |
| 14:04 |
jas_ |
media pack, i like that |
| 14:04 |
tumeninodes |
I think some do... it is more time and priorities at this point |
| 14:04 |
jas_ |
mm, yeah, and plus it's not so bad downloading stuff individually |
| 14:04 |
tumeninodes |
(meaning some do have the interest and ability( |
| 14:04 |
jas_ |
ok, and then add energy and inclination |
| 14:05 |
tumeninodes |
haha |
| 14:05 |
tumeninodes |
whatever energy is left after IRL |
| 14:05 |
jas_ |
but an archive for mt assets is pretty low priority, like u say |
| 14:05 |
jas_ |
dun dun dun |
| 14:05 |
tumeninodes |
sofar has a media server which game makers can use |
| 14:05 |
jas_ |
i saw that, very cool. great idea too |
| 14:06 |
jas_ |
it reminds me of old ftp sites heh |
| 14:06 |
jas_ |
i dunno about it tho, i wonder how it sorts conflicts |
| 14:06 |
tumeninodes |
also the faxt, a user might like this TP... but that sound pack. Being able to mix n match is prob a key idea |
| 14:07 |
tumeninodes |
*fact |
| 14:07 |
jas_ |
yes. that's true, but like modpacks sometimes you want to distribute a particular set. and perhaps that set can work with some other set or individual mod/tp... it's getting complex to think about |
| 14:08 |
tumeninodes |
but could still target individual sound files and textures from a media pack to create a custom set I guess |
| 14:08 |
tumeninodes |
everything gets complex when you begin to dig and pick |
| 14:08 |
jas_ |
it's a lot to sort through. |
| 14:09 |
tumeninodes |
yep... even restructuring folders/files when working on a new game... if you get too fussy it can cause a migraine |
| 14:09 |
jas_ |
mine usually evolve from a worldmods/ directory. |
| 14:10 |
jas_ |
i just made a node class. it turned out ok (still gotta fix da bugs), but i can now play hide and seek. |
| 14:10 |
jas_ |
heh |
| 14:10 |
tumeninodes |
I separated wood, metal, natural but then come to doors, stairs etc... do you use repetitive code or just leave those in default? |
| 14:10 |
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Dargod joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:10 |
tumeninodes |
I am still working that out in my head and it hurts |
| 14:11 |
jas_ |
if you can abstract stuff and work on it on a higher level perhaps you can do it without disruption |
| 14:11 |
jas_ |
but currently i prefer disruption, and am just hacking through MTG and mods |
| 14:11 |
jas_ |
butchering 3d_armor/multiskin |
| 14:11 |
jas_ |
i tried submods, talk about a migraine |
| 14:11 |
tumeninodes |
I could just break doors and stairs down to lua files... and then register them in their own respective mods wood/meta;/nature, etc |
| 14:12 |
jas_ |
well |
| 14:12 |
jas_ |
one option is to remove everything from mtg/stairs and mtg/doors |
| 14:12 |
jas_ |
except the api |
| 14:13 |
tumeninodes |
I remember Markubu was separating things into individual material... like acacia wood all on its own, then pine wood, so on... |
| 14:13 |
jas_ |
then register everything yourself? maybe i'm not understanding the problem exactly |
| 14:13 |
jas_ |
oh the files? |
| 14:13 |
jas_ |
oh i see |
| 14:13 |
jas_ |
items.lua, function.lua, .. |
| 14:14 |
jas_ |
i dunno, there's gotta be a million ways to organize projects. i bet whole books have been written! |
| 14:15 |
tumeninodes |
no your not misunderstanding... I was babbling about the way I have split things (materials) out so far but, then when it comes to stairs and doors... I may just set the apis out as lua files (folderless mods) and then register the stairs and doors in their respective mods outside of default |
| 14:15 |
jas_ |
no i was definitely babbling i said the same thing you did only in a question |
| 14:15 |
jas_ |
(just realized ha) |
| 14:15 |
tumeninodes |
haha |
| 14:15 |
jas_ |
well on that note, i'ma look at this node class :) good chatting ! |
| 14:16 |
tumeninodes |
but you have to decide on what the limit is when you want to restrutcture or it can turn into a mess |
| 14:16 |
tumeninodes |
ttyl have fun |
| 14:16 |
jas_ |
there is no limit |
| 14:16 |
jas_ |
ttfn |
| 14:20 |
jordach_ |
i'm figuring out how i solved directional fog with uh custom supplied fog |
| 14:20 |
jordach_ |
this is what's going on right now lmao https://gfycat.com/BetterInfantileAiredale |
| 14:21 |
rubenwardy |
Doesn't MT use radial fog, not directional fog? |
| 14:22 |
jordach_ |
directional tinting |
| 14:22 |
tumeninodes |
pretty nice looking... what's the flickerin gthough... is that just from loading chunks? |
| 14:22 |
jordach_ |
flickering is post fog tint fighting the set_sky call |
| 14:22 |
tumeninodes |
MT needs to use radial sound :P |
| 14:22 |
tumeninodes |
ahhh |
| 14:23 |
tumeninodes |
make it behave then ;) |
| 14:23 |
jordach_ |
return m_visible ? m_bgcolor : m_fallback_bg_color; |
| 14:23 |
jordach_ |
^ there's the little shit |
| 14:24 |
tumeninodes |
heh |
| 14:24 |
tumeninodes |
that's life in Pandora's box |
| 14:24 |
jordach_ |
that's life in the mess of Minetest's skybox |
| 14:24 |
jordach_ |
giant hack to z-buffer is how i'd accurately describe it |
| 14:25 |
tumeninodes |
that's just one of the messes xD |
| 14:25 |
jordach_ |
it's easy to add your own Lua API calls and packet handling, than it is to make the sky behave |
| 14:26 |
tumeninodes |
seems as though it's easier and more pleasant to scoop your eye out with a spoon too |
| 14:28 |
tumeninodes |
rebuild it all from scratch and have it ready for 7.0.0 :D |
| 14:29 |
jordach_ |
i would, but paramat tends to get defensive when his crap programmer art gets threatened /s |
| 14:29 |
tumeninodes |
should start naming MT releases after Sith Lords |
| 14:32 |
tumeninodes |
well, there's just no arguing against that beautiful sky render you posted the other day (yesterday?) with 15,000 stars... once people see that, it will beat down any defenses anyway |
| 14:32 |
tumeninodes |
brb |
| 14:32 |
jordach_ |
*against a blender rendered skybox texture* |
| 14:40 |
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Unarelith joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:45 |
jordach_ |
POGGERS |
| 14:45 |
jordach_ |
skybox and plain fog works with directional fog |
| 15:00 |
jordach_ |
tumeninodes, https://gfycat.com/NippyTenderAntbear |
| 15:27 |
|
IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:28 |
IhrFussel |
Hi guys^^ ... uh what is this post? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=337770#p337770 ... implying that Android has no official client? Which is utterly wrong |
| 15:33 |
IhrFussel |
Replied...sometimes I wonder why people post about something they didn't even check first |
| 15:38 |
tumeninodes |
Jordach, so beautiful! OBS does it all a horrible unjustice though |
| 15:51 |
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| 15:55 |
IhrFussel |
I hope I didn't lie here https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=337788#p337788 |
| 15:58 |
IhrFussel |
I honestly wonder how such a game breaking issue took even this long to be fixed (and app has yet to be updated) but that's MT I guess |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
If you're refering to GL_ENUM, then that's in the hands of nerzhul |
| 16:00 |
IhrFussel |
I know that and I hope he plans to do it before Christmas still ... but the actual fixing of the bug took way too long IMO |
| 16:02 |
IhrFussel |
I mean we don't know how many devices are affected... my cheap Wiko phone isn't for example but multiple people reported it in the forum which usually means there are a lot more who are effected but don't bother to report |
| 16:02 |
nerzhul |
i answer on the forum |
| 16:02 |
IhrFussel |
affected* |
| 16:02 |
nerzhul |
i need feedbacks from the published APK |
| 16:03 |
nerzhul |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/0.4.17.1/Minetest-0.4.17.1-3.apk |
| 16:03 |
nerzhul |
this apk |
| 16:03 |
rubenwardy |
You already have: it doesn't work |
| 16:04 |
nerzhul |
then i don't have a such solution currently |
| 16:04 |
nerzhul |
but will look at this , at least during the feature freeze |
| 16:06 |
IhrFussel |
Who said it doesn't work? |
| 16:06 |
IhrFussel |
When was the apk compiled? |
| 16:06 |
IhrFussel |
Cause the person who said "it still does this" posted it on Nov 29 |
| 16:10 |
* tumeninodes |
brings recordings.txt from the camera mod to an editor to see about some way to convert to a vid format.... then quietly closes said editor and moves on as if nothing ever happened |
| 16:13 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy, don't forget the issue I reported too, as part of "it doesn't work" |
| 16:14 |
tumeninodes |
Vanessa, you get power .net back yet? |
| 16:14 |
VanessaE |
power is fine |
| 16:14 |
VanessaE |
net is still down |
| 16:14 |
tumeninodes |
holy shit... I feel for ya |
| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
trying to use a phone to get my fix is.... painful :P |
| 16:16 |
tumeninodes |
I know, I've tried that before during outages... sucks big time |
| 16:16 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, so you reported the newly compiled apk to "not work" ? Or do you mean something else? |
| 16:16 |
tumeninodes |
and tethering always sucks ass as well |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
it wouldn't be so bad if I coulf just hook up my keyboard |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 16:17 |
tumeninodes |
bluetooth kybd... just sayin |
| 16:17 |
tumeninodes |
for mergancies |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel: broken as of ... was it yesterday? or sunday. |
| 16:18 |
IhrFussel |
I was talking about the chat spam in the Android version the spamming of GL_ENUM |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
don't have one, tumeni. |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
ihr: i'm tslking about a straight-up crash on start. |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
talking* |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
(ruben filed an issue about it) |
| 16:19 |
IhrFussel |
Oh so the version nrz linked above just crashes on startup? I see |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
lemme try that one... |
| 16:20 |
IhrFussel |
Or are you talking about 5.0.0-dev? Cause I mean the 0.4.17.1 fix |
| 16:20 |
tumeninodes |
my kid had a tablet that came with a case with built in kybd... plugs into the tablet... this also works for a phone.. onscreen keyboards suck unless you're like 1 to 25 yo |
| 16:20 |
IhrFussel |
That apk ^ is just 0.4.17.1 bugfix release |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
dude save me somd typing and read the issue |
| 16:21 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, can you tell us when you compiled your bugfix apk? If it was today or yesterday then it#s vitually impossible that someone already tested it |
| 16:21 |
IhrFussel |
virtually* |
| 16:22 |
nerzhul |
no it was when the problem was reported and stujones11 suggested irrlicht was compiled in debug mode |
| 16:22 |
IhrFussel |
BUT...you didn't push it to the play store so people who complain still likely use the apk from the play store |
| 16:23 |
IhrFussel |
You need to make the above link more visible...maybe as news |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
as for the above apk, I can't seem to use it. link just opens, closes a browser tab without giving me a download notice |
| 16:23 |
nerzhul |
it's not an official release it's a test release |
| 16:23 |
nerzhul |
go to minetest releases on GH |
| 16:24 |
nerzhul |
you will find it with 0.4.17.1 |
| 16:24 |
nerzhul |
it's the -3 apk |
| 16:24 |
IhrFussel |
I know but if yu don't post it somewhere where it's visible well enough then barely anyone will try it |
| 16:24 |
IhrFussel |
you* |
| 16:24 |
IhrFussel |
99% of people expect new versions to be pushed to the play store directly |
| 16:25 |
tumeninodes |
it's not a new version |
| 16:25 |
IhrFussel |
It is a new bugfix release |
| 16:25 |
tumeninodes |
not yet especially if it does not fix the bug |
| 16:25 |
IhrFussel |
And that also got pushed to google play directly when 0.4.17.1 released |
| 16:26 |
IhrFussel |
People expect their app store to tell them when something new exists... this is just how society works these days |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
nerz: nope. -3 still crashes on start. |
| 16:28 |
tumeninodes |
if the general public had access to the -3 apk... they would all have a crach instead of a working build with some bugs |
| 16:28 |
tumeninodes |
bigger mess than masses with a buggy version |
| 16:28 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe it's enough when you find 3 or so people who will install from github ... and then you just have to hope that it's fixed for everybody |
| 16:29 |
IhrFussel |
tumeninodes, that is why I suggested to post it as news or something where people see it better instead of just one random topic under "Problems" |
| 16:29 |
tumeninodes |
better those 3 who know how and how to test and how to report than a thousand who think it's just a new release |
| 16:30 |
tumeninodes |
why would you push something untested to the app store? |
| 16:31 |
IhrFussel |
I didn't say that it needs to be pushed (it could be pushed as Beta release, not sure how much work it is to have 2 channels on Google Play) |
| 16:32 |
IhrFussel |
But right now barely anyone will see that there is a testing apk available ... like I said if those few people who test it are enough then it will be fine ... but according to VanessaE that app crashes...I will test it myself now |
| 16:35 |
IhrFussel |
It starts on my phone |
| 16:37 |
IhrFussel |
I cannot say if it fixes the GL_ENUM bug cause it never happened on it, but the apk works ... I'm in SP |
| 16:40 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, 0.4.17.20 correct? |
| 16:40 |
nerzhul |
i can't remember, i'm not on my home pc |
| 16:40 |
nerzhul |
it's the 0.4.17.1-3 apk on GH releases pages |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
in my case the -3 apk has the same crash as in my/ruben's report |
| 16:40 |
nerzhul |
the crash fixed in master ? |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
cannoy |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 16:40 |
IhrFussel |
That's the one I downloaded and it works |
| 16:41 |
VanessaE |
cannot locate symbol "stderr" in libgmp.so |
| 16:42 |
VanessaE |
I can't use 5.0/master. I only run 0.4.x. |
| 16:42 |
IhrFussel |
Well it makes sense if something you use there only targets API level 23+ |
| 16:42 |
IhrFussel |
It won't work on older Android versions |
| 16:43 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, what's your Android version? |
| 16:43 |
IhrFussel |
API level 23 requires at least Android 6.0.0 |
| 16:44 |
IhrFussel |
6.0* |
| 16:44 |
VanessaE |
wat |
| 16:44 |
VanessaE |
fuck that. |
| 16:45 |
IhrFussel |
That explains perfectly why it works on my phone with Android 7.0 |
| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
as for version, 4.3 I think. Samsung Galaxy S4 |
| 16:46 |
VanessaE |
ard you seriously trying to make that the min. Android version? are you fucking INSANE |
| 16:46 |
IhrFussel |
0.4.17 HAS TO support Android 4.1+ or so I think...that's what the original 0.4.17 supported AFAIK |
| 16:47 |
IhrFussel |
No, the devs likely just use something they didn't know would break on old Android versions |
| 16:47 |
IhrFussel |
Wouldn't be the first time |
| 16:47 |
VanessaE |
I sure hope that's the case. |
| 16:48 |
IhrFussel |
Like sfan5 said in the GH issue "we target the much lower [API level] 14" |
| 16:49 |
IhrFussel |
Which means 4.0 |
| 16:49 |
VanessaE |
minetest needs to run on ooold versions becuase our userbase isn't gonna spenc $600 on new hardware, not in this economy |
| 16:49 |
VanessaE |
spend* |
| 16:49 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: it's not insane from a developer standpoint, Android's libc is very lacking in basic features and has lots of problematic behaviour |
| 16:50 |
IhrFussel |
sfan already pretty much confirmed that it's just a f*ck up on someone's part |
| 16:50 |
VanessaE |
it IS insane, sfan5 |
| 16:50 |
sfan5 |
just look at the example: android 6.0 just to use stderr?? that's stupid |
| 16:50 |
sfan5 |
that said, I think it's just an oversight in this case as there is no consensus to raise the min api level |
| 16:50 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe the "Update Android-Java" PR caused this? |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
but if its just a minor error (stderr |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
? ;) ) that's fine. |
| 16:53 |
VanessaE |
sorry to be a crab. this lack of internet on my PC is getting to me. :P |
| 16:58 |
IhrFussel |
I'm looking for the fault commit that added 'stderr' |
| 16:59 |
|
tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:59 |
tenplus1 |
hi folkas |
| 16:59 |
tenplus1 |
*folks |
| 16:59 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 17:00 |
rud0lf |
polkas |
| 17:00 |
VanessaE |
polka you eyes out :P |
| 17:00 |
tenplus1 |
lol, hi Vanessa + rud0lf |
| 17:00 |
rud0lf |
hi |
| 17:01 |
rud0lf |
are you making us a pair? |
| 17:01 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 17:03 |
tenplus1 |
Hoppers mod updated with new nodetimer tweak |
| 17:03 |
tenplus1 |
am using your autocrafter on Xanadu Vanessa |
| 17:07 |
IhrFussel |
HI tenplus1 |
| 17:07 |
tenplus1 |
hi fussel |
| 17:08 |
tumeninodes |
on an off note, I'm gonna figure out how to transplant eyebrows to the head. After a certain age, that's the only thing which grows, extraordinarily fast :P (possibly nose and ear hair too) gones be rich |
| 17:08 |
VanessaE |
hahahah |
| 17:08 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 17:09 |
tumeninodes |
wth is the 'autocrafter'? Now players don't even need to actually "craft"? 0_0 |
| 17:10 |
tenplus1 |
yeah it's kinda lazy but well used surprisingly... |
| 17:10 |
tenplus1 |
at least not it works with hoppers so you can keep the ingredients loaded and take care of output |
| 17:11 |
IhrFussel |
HOLD ON... so 'libgmp.so' adds that 'stderr' to Android code and it is NOT part of MT right? That means if you try to compile with the newest lib version it seems it will break Android? |
| 17:11 |
VanessaE |
they're indispensinle for factories |
| 17:11 |
tumeninodes |
so you removed one of the 2 main goals of MTG... craft and eat, might as well make an autoeater too xD |
| 17:11 |
tenplus1 |
and a few sortingpipes to keep the flow works wonders :D |
| 17:12 |
IhrFussel |
It's definitely to do with that lib cause it references 'stderr' |
| 17:17 |
tenplus1 |
fussel, is this a new error that's appeared in 5.0 ? |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7963 |
| 17:19 |
tenplus1 |
ouch! |
| 17:27 |
VanessaE |
well the 5.0 apk runs but of coursd I can't connect to my servers with it since they run 0.4.x |
| 17:28 |
tenplus1 |
that's what stops me testing 5.0n |
| 17:28 |
VanessaE |
also scrolling the server list is shitty. |
| 17:28 |
tumeninodes |
stderr neds to be redirected maybe? |
| 17:28 |
tumeninodes |
*e |
| 17:29 |
VanessaE |
tumeni: needs *defined* somehow. |
| 17:30 |
tumeninodes |
hmm, idk... Android is an odd duck since day 1 anyway yet somehow it became a top contender in all things pc |
| 17:32 |
tenplus1 |
is it a specific android version it croaks on ? |
| 17:33 |
tumeninodes |
and google really needs to learn how to strip their code down significantly. every required/base app needed to use Android are enormous in size and take up far too much space on fixed internal storage |
| 17:34 |
tenplus1 |
agree'd, android is bloated with so much google crap it's unreal... that's why I like LineageOS on mobile, base android |
| 17:34 |
rubenwardy |
usually it's not google crap that bloats it |
| 17:35 |
tenplus1 |
the manufacturers of the phone add their own crap also.... hi ruben |
| 17:35 |
tumeninodes |
android system webview 77.55mb |
| 17:36 |
tumeninodes |
gmail 75.19mb |
| 17:36 |
tenplus1 |
basically chromium library |
| 17:36 |
|
Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:36 |
tenplus1 |
hi gael |
| 17:36 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
hi tenplus1 |
| 17:37 |
tumeninodes |
play books 57.56mb, play games 38.50mb, play services 278mb, play store 74.18mb |
| 17:37 |
tumeninodes |
so..., seriously? |
| 17:37 |
tenplus1 |
scarey... I have all that disabled... |
| 17:38 |
tenplus1 |
a nice tiny app called "Yalp Store" lets you install from google app store without running in background |
| 17:38 |
tumeninodes |
but those are required to run android as "android" |
| 17:38 |
tumeninodes |
I'll def check that out |
| 17:38 |
tumeninodes |
but it's worse bloatware than MS windows |
| 17:39 |
tenplus1 |
most of it you can disable or use an app to remove without rooting |
| 17:39 |
tumeninodes |
on a much smaller formfactor |
| 17:39 |
tumeninodes |
I rooted a phone once.... |
| 17:39 |
tumeninodes |
once |
| 17:40 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, wait wait wait...so the crash only happens in the 0.4.17.1-3 apk by nrz? Cause you just said 5.0.0 runs |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
ihr, correct. |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
well 0.4.17.1, .2, .1-3 |
| 17:40 |
tumeninodes |
prob with all the google main apps is, they cannot be set to external storage (they would not work if they were anyway) |
| 17:40 |
IhrFussel |
Then nerzhul likely compiled with some unsupported lib version |
| 17:41 |
rubenwardy |
*sdcard |
| 17:41 |
tumeninodes |
the oes I listed cannot be moved to sd |
| 17:41 |
tumeninodes |
they give no option to move them |
| 17:42 |
rubenwardy |
internal storage = apps, services, etc external storage = files, photos, etc |
| 17:42 |
rubenwardy |
it's a stupid Android-specific term |
| 17:42 |
tumeninodes |
correct |
| 17:42 |
rubenwardy |
you can have internal storage on an SDCard |
| 17:42 |
rubenwardy |
but not all apps support it :) |
| 17:43 |
rubenwardy |
to make things better, Minetest saves things on /sdcard0/ which isn't an sdcard |
| 17:43 |
tumeninodes |
you mean "most" of the main apps |
| 17:43 |
rubenwardy |
and there's no good API to work with SD cards |
| 17:43 |
tumeninodes |
does it really? sneaky buggers |
| 17:43 |
tenplus1 |
hrmm |
| 17:43 |
rubenwardy |
everyone probably just copies a stackoverflow answer |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
I'm happy now that I have sufficient storage |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
32GB |
| 17:44 |
IhrFussel |
On my phone the Minetest folder is in /storage/emulated/0/Minetest |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, I think /sdcard0/ is an alias |
| 17:44 |
tumeninodes |
same thing just diff wording |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
or I may have made it |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
up |
| 17:44 |
tumeninodes |
xD |
| 17:45 |
IhrFussel |
Or the folder structures are vendor specific |
| 17:45 |
tumeninodes |
HTC still pushes a club/store which has not existed for a while now haha |
| 17:46 |
tenplus1 |
if we had a basekernel that supported allof the mobile devices we could replace with something smaller/more configurable |
| 17:46 |
tumeninodes |
they still leave all that old decrepid bits in their code for their phones |
| 17:47 |
tumeninodes |
well, it really says what a pia the mobile platform is when canonical/ubuntu drop kicked it |
| 17:48 |
tenplus1 |
canonical ? |
| 17:48 |
tumeninodes |
ubuntu's babies'daddy |
| 17:48 |
benrob0329 |
tumeninodes: I mean, KDE Mobile is a thing, as is fairphone and Purism's WIP phone line |
| 17:49 |
tenplus1 |
yay for Purism and KDE mobile :) they both look good and use linux (not android) |
| 17:49 |
tumeninodes |
I have not even looked at KDE in soooo long |
| 17:49 |
tenplus1 |
am running Kubuntu 18.10 on my other desktop, it runs very well indeed... |
| 17:50 |
tumeninodes |
I'm still pissed about losing 3.5 :P |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
Purism is using GNOME as the base, which does apparently work as there was a company who are already doing it |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
tumeninodes: its quite nice nowadays |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
Not real heavy, a lot less buggy than it used to be |
| 17:50 |
tumeninodes |
what's Purism... VoiP? |
| 17:50 |
tenplus1 |
my full kde desktop is using 248mb memory... that's smaller than xubuntu's xfce |
| 17:50 |
tumeninodes |
oh wow |
| 17:51 |
tumeninodes |
shit... |
| 17:51 |
tenplus1 |
purism is behind the Librem13 phone (linux phone) |
| 17:51 |
benrob0329 |
A Linux Laptop manufacturer, who are making a phone line |
| 17:51 |
* tumeninodes |
mossies over to kde websight |
| 17:51 |
tumeninodes |
Im still stuck on cinnamon.... |
| 17:51 |
tumeninodes |
don;t judge me |
| 17:51 |
tenplus1 |
also if you install Kubuntu 18.10 there's a PPA available to get latest kde libs |
| 17:51 |
* benrob0329 |
installs Debian testing on his desktop |
| 17:52 |
tenplus1 |
https://www.plasma-mobile.org/ + 100000000000 |
| 17:52 |
benrob0329 |
Honestly I'm not real impressed with Kubuntu and Neon |
| 17:52 |
tenplus1 |
hi benrob |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
Probably because they're both Ubuntu based :P |
| 17:53 |
tumeninodes |
Oooooooo.. aint that purty |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
Hello tenplus1 |
| 17:53 |
|
twoelk joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:53 |
tenplus1 |
o/ twoelk |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
KDE Connect is especially useful |
| 17:53 |
twoelk |
o/ |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
Hello twoelk |
| 17:53 |
twoelk |
\o |
| 17:54 |
tumeninodes |
heyyyy wait a sec???? it's still a prototype DOH |
| 17:54 |
tenplus1 |
am just amazed that a fully features desktop loaded with apps runs a lot smoother than most lightweight desktops |
| 17:54 |
* tumeninodes |
shoots a spitball at benrob |
| 17:54 |
sofar |
clearlinux has the plasma desktop, now, too </ADVERTISEMENT> |
| 17:54 |
tenplus1 |
hi sofar |
| 17:55 |
* twoelk |
looks at his fully loaded desktop and imagines scraping it accross the floor |
| 17:55 |
sofar |
sup 013 |
| 17:55 |
tumeninodes |
but who's to say KDE does not drop ass like ubuntu mobile did? just later |
| 17:55 |
tumeninodes |
still in prototype stage |
| 17:55 |
tenplus1 |
ubuntu mobile is still going, just released OTA6 start of decembet |
| 17:55 |
benrob0329 |
tumeninodes: they arent a company? Its being used by other ROMs? |
| 17:55 |
twoelk |
oh, the E does not stand for eternity? |
| 17:57 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: isn't there a no advertising rule or something? :P |
| 17:58 |
tumeninodes |
huh... why the hell did I think Ubuntu dropped the dev on this? |
| 17:59 |
tenplus1 |
UBports has control of Unity phone now :) |
| 17:59 |
benrob0329 |
Probably for the same reason they dropped Unity |
| 17:59 |
tenplus1 |
and yet unity ran better than gnome3 crap |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
Ehh, maybe better than the current Ubuntu stock |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
But that's not saying much |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
Gnome 3 runs quite decently vanilla |
| 18:00 |
tenplus1 |
never had any trouble with current ubuntu distro's... |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
*in its vanilla state |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
Ubuntu tacks a bunch if stuff on |
| 18:00 |
tumeninodes |
Mint Mobile |
| 18:01 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 18:01 |
tumeninodes |
that would be awesome |
| 18:01 |
tenplus1 |
if they were able to run linux on arm mobiles then we could run linux software which would be easier than compiling for android |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
if only atom based phones existed |
| 18:02 |
tumeninodes |
:) |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
wait |
| 18:02 |
tenplus1 |
wait, atom as in chromium html5 libs ? |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
Intel Atom CPU |
| 18:02 |
benrob0329 |
tenplus1: I just have a very bad opinion of the entire Ubuntu family, had bad experiences with then (recently) |
| 18:02 |
tumeninodes |
come sail away with sailfishOS |
| 18:03 |
benrob0329 |
RISC 5 is a thing too |
| 18:03 |
tumeninodes |
shivers |
| 18:03 |
benrob0329 |
What? Why does everyone hate RISC5? |
| 18:04 |
benrob0329 |
Its better than ARM, actually supports PCIe |
| 18:04 |
tenplus1 |
nothing wrong with risc5, it works |
| 18:04 |
tenplus1 |
and power9 |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
*RISC-V |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
It's the hipster of the ISA world |
| 18:05 |
benrob0329 |
...what? |
| 18:05 |
benrob0329 |
How cab you be a "hipster" for new tech? |
| 18:05 |
tenplus1 |
pc made only of valves :D |
| 18:06 |
rud0lf |
or electromagnetic-switches cpu |
| 18:06 |
benrob0329 |
How can tech be a hipster for itself? |
| 18:06 |
benrob0329 |
This description makes no sense |
| 18:06 |
tumeninodes |
hmmm tinypaw linux |
| 18:06 |
rubenwardy |
I personally think that my ISA is the best: https://i.rubenwardy.com/TrhsL.png |
| 18:06 |
|
calcul0n joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:07 |
rubenwardy |
wait, that's wrong |
| 18:07 |
rubenwardy |
RI type no longer exists |
| 18:07 |
tenplus1 |
wb |
| 18:09 |
tenplus1 |
tinycore is tiny... 40mb with libs to run mobile would easily make a decent base insteaf of android |
| 18:09 |
tumeninodes |
https://harvey-os.org/ |
| 18:10 |
tenplus1 |
ooh |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
Currently working on superscalar with out of order and such, painful |
| 18:12 |
tumeninodes |
here, grab this and get to work :P https://github.com/tinyos/tinyos-main |
| 18:14 |
tenplus1 |
so many things better than android to run on a mobile that's open and compact |
| 18:14 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, is it correct what I say here? Just making sure https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7963#issuecomment-446303781 |
| 18:14 |
tenplus1 |
google really have to step up their game |
| 18:15 |
tumeninodes |
nah, like windows, android will always be the top mobile player |
| 18:15 |
tumeninodes |
just because... society |
| 18:15 |
tenplus1 |
shame |
| 18:15 |
VanessaE |
ihr: no, incorrect. |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
there's 2 issues here |
| 18:16 |
IhrFussel |
But you said earlier 5.0.0 works and only nrz's apk crashes |
| 18:16 |
tenplus1 |
wow, do ppl still have mobileswith android 4.0 on it ?!?! |
| 18:16 |
rubenwardy |
1 issue is the GL_INVALID_ENUM |
| 18:16 |
rubenwardy |
another issue is VanessaE's crash |
| 18:16 |
rubenwardy |
tenplus1: unfortunately |
| 18:16 |
rubenwardy |
manufacturers add loads of hacks to make their phone stand out, which then make it hard for them to update |
| 18:16 |
rubenwardy |
hopefully treble with alleviate this |
| 18:17 |
rubenwardy |
and also Google's OTA thing which bypasses OEMs |
| 18:17 |
tumeninodes |
I'm all up to date with Android 5.0.2 :P |
| 18:17 |
rubenwardy |
I like Android though |
| 18:17 |
tenplus1 |
I have 6.0 on mines, works but I did c hange the launcher to sometihng smaller |
| 18:17 |
rubenwardy |
lol, that was released 4 years ago |
| 18:17 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel: 0.4.17.2 in the play store, 0.4.17.1 on minetest.net, and that 0.4.17.1-3 apk all crash in the same way as described in my/ruben's issue |
| 18:17 |
rubenwardy |
I have Nougat |
| 18:17 |
tumeninodes |
yet it still works |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
VanessaE: that APK does not aim to fix your issue |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
only 1) |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
tumeninodes: you have >= 5, so it won't crash |
| 18:18 |
VanessaE |
ruben: as I assumed. |
| 18:18 |
tumeninodes |
;) |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
We need an automated Android build system so all nerzhul needs to do is download and sign the APK |
| 18:19 |
tumeninodes |
so set it up |
| 18:19 |
rubenwardy |
I have other priorities currently |
| 18:19 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, what about 5.0.0-dev apk?? |
| 18:19 |
tumeninodes |
you might be able to talk stu into it |
| 18:19 |
IhrFussel |
There are a few available posted in some issues |
| 18:20 |
tumeninodes |
boop, gotta make a phone call bbl |
| 18:20 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 18:20 |
Fixer |
also, automated AppImage |
| 18:20 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: \o \o \o |
| 18:21 |
tenplus1 |
+100 for appimage... I wanna be able to run dev builds without installing |
| 18:21 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:21 |
tenplus1 |
hi Krock |
| 18:21 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 |
| 18:21 |
Krock |
uuh |
| 18:21 |
tenplus1 |
:) |
| 18:21 |
Krock |
I came prepared. Not sure whether I won anything |
| 18:21 |
* tenplus1 |
gives Krock a donut |
| 18:22 |
Krock |
thx m8 |
| 18:22 |
tumeninodes |
we all missed tenplus1 so much... we made a new one |
| 18:22 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy it's genious, i thought the same thing today |
| 18:22 |
tenplus1 |
hi nerzhul |
| 18:22 |
nerzhul |
the main problem is generally poor support in CI |
| 18:22 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel: the 5.0.0 apk runs but isn'g useful to me since none of my servers run 5.0.0-dev, anc scrolling the server list is shitty. |
| 18:22 |
tenplus1 |
Krock: added the mobs:set_velocity to mobs api, good idea |
| 18:22 |
nerzhul |
but rubenwardy i'm working on it, first i want to provide a docker image for minetest server |
| 18:22 |
nerzhul |
after that i will try to implement gitlab CI android build |
| 18:23 |
nerzhul |
hi tenplus1 |
| 18:23 |
Krock |
nerzhul: going to test 7939 (AO PR) |
| 18:25 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, this version runs? https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv2eju8s11bfhvx/Minetest-f0dca28.apk?dl=0 |
| 18:26 |
IhrFussel |
It's the newest from the forum (Dec 7) |
| 18:27 |
nerzhul |
Krock nice, ty |
| 18:27 |
nerzhul |
don't hesitate to add a mobs mod to test it :) |
| 18:28 |
tenplus1 |
what's 7939 ? |
| 18:28 |
nerzhul |
#7939 |
| 18:28 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7939 -- Add an activeobject manager to hold active objects by nerzhul |
| 18:29 |
nerzhul |
it's just a refactor PR to enhance the MT code quality, i'm starting to refactor the core engine into smaller parts to make them easier to test |
| 18:29 |
tenplus1 |
ooh nice, does it help in any way with the stepheight entity glitch ? |
| 18:29 |
nerzhul |
it's just a refactor pr sorry |
| 18:29 |
nerzhul |
no bugfix, no feature, just quality |
| 18:29 |
tenplus1 |
still good :) |
| 18:30 |
nerzhul |
the idea with those refactor is to have tests on code parts to enhance quality & prevent breaking code |
| 18:32 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel: maybe? i downloaded what was linked on stu's forum thread an hour or two ago. |
| 18:32 |
IhrFussel |
Yes that one |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
and for android sorry but no we cannot just download to sign the apk because it's a release build and cannot be installed without signing on the phone if i remember |
| 18:33 |
VanessaE |
his build runs as far as i could see, for as little as i could use it |
| 18:33 |
rubenwardy |
not true |
| 18:33 |
rubenwardy |
you can install unsigned builds with developer mode enabled at least |
| 18:34 |
rubenwardy |
and to release to the play store, you'd download the unsigned APK and test it |
| 18:35 |
nerzhul |
if we can then it can be useful then |
| 18:35 |
nerzhul |
generally i test on the signed apk :) |
| 18:36 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, I hope this is correct now -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7963#issuecomment-446311547 |
| 18:36 |
rubenwardy |
*and to release to the play store, you'd download the unsigned APK and sign it |
| 18:36 |
rubenwardy |
testing is god too |
| 18:36 |
rubenwardy |
+o |
| 18:36 |
nerzhul |
i always test the release apk :) |
| 18:37 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel: yes |
| 18:37 |
Krock |
entity IDs don't get recycled for some reason |
| 18:38 |
nerzhul |
it's the original code they are reycled whne full if i remember |
| 18:40 |
Krock |
hmm https://pastebin.com/raw/iPUAMadQ |
| 18:40 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, just to be sure: You tested the stable 0.4.17.1 from the play store, 0.4.17.2 linked somewhere and 0.4.17.1-3 (the most recent posted by nrz) and none of them startup? |
| 18:40 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel: 0.4.17.2 in the play store, 0.4.17.1 on minetest.net, and that 0.4.17.1-3 apk |
| 18:41 |
IhrFussel |
And the 5.0.0-dev from stu works correctly... how can THAT be |
| 18:42 |
VanessaE |
yes. |
| 18:43 |
|
benrob0329 joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:43 |
VanessaE |
be....cause it's thd master branch, not the 0.4 branch? |
| 18:43 |
tenplus1 |
wb benrob |
| 18:43 |
VanessaE |
the* |
| 18:45 |
IhrFussel |
But I mean then there must be something wrong since 0.4.17 release |
| 18:45 |
VanessaE |
yeah, inavliv build env :P |
| 18:45 |
VanessaE |
inavlid* |
| 18:46 |
IhrFussel |
So in the end it seems nrz just uses unsupported libs to compile the Android version |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: fix it :P |
| 18:46 |
tenplus1 |
lolol |
| 18:47 |
IhrFussel |
Are we sure that nrz also compiled the version for minetest.net? |
| 18:47 |
VanessaE |
ask him :P |
| 18:54 |
tumeninodes |
Im downloading one of the pay to play ones..., then I won;t feel bad about bitchin |
| 18:54 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
tumeni: booooo |
| 18:54 |
tumeninodes |
:P thpltpltplt |
| 18:55 |
tumeninodes |
unfortunately Minetest has stopped |
| 18:55 |
tumeninodes |
life is meaningless |
| 18:55 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
serves ya right :P |
| 18:56 |
tumeninodes |
dammit |
| 18:56 |
|
Fixer_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:57 |
rud0lf |
it's a new feature, not a bug |
| 18:57 |
rud0lf |
it's meant to spend more time active outside |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
out...side? |
| 18:57 |
tumeninodes |
must be built to restore morality |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
you mean the big blue room? |
| 18:58 |
tumeninodes |
but, but... the zombie apocalypse |
| 18:58 |
tenplus1 |
do we need creative to get there ? |
| 18:59 |
tumeninodes |
I can't go outside... I have no privs |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
nope strictly survival |
| 18:59 |
tenplus1 |
nuuuuu |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
hardcore, too |
| 18:59 |
* tenplus1 |
needs his admin pick |
| 18:59 |
tumeninodes |
fuck it, I;m out... I can;t do outside |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 19:00 |
* tumeninodes |
uninstalls and reinstalls (cuz that might do something) |
| 19:01 |
rud0lf |
"minetest is trying to find solution.." Thread::sleep(5 * 1000) |
| 19:02 |
tumeninodes |
Oooooh... wincraft??? whats this?? 0_0 |
| 19:02 |
tumeninodes |
it says 'win' it must be great |
| 19:02 |
tenplus1 |
ahaha |
| 19:02 |
tumeninodes |
hmmm MaxiCraft... seriously |
| 19:02 |
rud0lf |
it's like windows, but you need to compile gui |
| 19:02 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 19:02 |
rud0lf |
Meintest |
| 19:02 |
tenplus1 |
er... maxicraft sounds like a hygiene product |
| 19:02 |
Krock |
rud0lf: if you were going to follow the M$ solution path: (after sleep) "cannot find any solution for this problem. try searching for help online" |
| 19:02 |
rud0lf |
for german audience |
| 19:03 |
tumeninodes |
exactly |
| 19:03 |
Krock |
MeinKRAFT |
| 19:03 |
tumeninodes |
looking for craftpon now |
| 19:03 |
rud0lf |
MeinSchaft |
| 19:03 |
tumeninodes |
MeinTits |
| 19:03 |
tumeninodes |
sorry |
| 19:03 |
rud0lf |
:) |
| 19:03 |
tumeninodes |
^test |
| 19:03 |
rud0lf |
mathtest |
| 19:03 |
tumeninodes |
ew |
| 19:03 |
tenplus1 |
DiggyDiggyCraft |
| 19:04 |
IhrFussel |
Someone on the forums got a avatar that says "SAG NEIN ZU MULTIKRAFT" |
| 19:04 |
tumeninodes |
OMG!!!!! |
| 19:04 |
tumeninodes |
tenplus1 that's the bestiest name EVER |
| 19:04 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 19:04 |
IhrFussel |
No wait it's different |
| 19:04 |
tumeninodes |
so the only tag for minetest is (casual) |
| 19:05 |
IhrFussel |
"MULTIKRAFT? NEIN DANKE" |
| 19:05 |
tumeninodes |
there is nothing 'casual' about MT |
| 19:05 |
* tumeninodes |
can confirm... uninstall reinstall does jack-shite |
| 19:06 |
tumeninodes |
that concludes my bug tracking efforts for today |
| 19:09 |
tenplus1 |
so long as the entity glitching into solid walls gets fixed, it's all good :D |
| 19:09 |
tumeninodes |
awww and I SO wanted to try to play on my phone (j/k) |
| 19:09 |
tumeninodes |
uninstall reinstall might fix that :P |
| 19:18 |
IhrFussel |
Are we sure that the Android builds respect all of those bullet points? https://android.googlesource.com/platform/ndk/+/master/docs/user/common_problems.md#using-mismatched-prebuilt-libraries |
| 19:23 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul ^ |
| 19:24 |
IhrFussel |
I'm just randomly looking for info that could help with the issue... like this comment on some GH issue https://github.com/android-ndk/ndk/issues/329#issuecomment-419041959 |
| 19:31 |
tenplus1 |
laters all o/ |
| 19:32 |
|
tenplus1 left #minetest-hub |
| 19:32 |
tumeninodes |
celeron55 and others, any interest in applying to have MT join? https://sfconservancy.org/projects/current/ |
| 19:33 |
tumeninodes |
later ten+1 _o_ |
| 19:33 |
jordach_ |
>Boost |
| 19:33 |
jordach_ |
per the dev wiki: >We are using C++11, boost will never be an option |
| 19:37 |
|
aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:39 |
Krock |
boost looks weird tbh |
| 19:40 |
celeron55 |
tumeninodes: MT applied this year, but they have a massive queue |
| 19:40 |
tumeninodes |
understood |
| 19:40 |
celeron55 |
i.e. no idea what they even think |
| 19:40 |
tumeninodes |
haha |
| 19:41 |
tumeninodes |
sending them a nice Xmas card might help |
| 19:41 |
tumeninodes |
maybe there's $100 in that card... or maybe there isnt |
| 19:42 |
rubenwardy |
loot box bribery |
| 19:42 |
tumeninodes |
(most liekly the latter)' |
| 19:42 |
celeron55 |
i'll send a police officer in a box to check this bribery situation |
| 19:42 |
tumeninodes |
0_0 |
| 19:44 |
tumeninodes |
always plan some extra for the officers who come to investigate |
| 19:44 |
tumeninodes |
note part of "investigate" is 'invest' ;) |
| 19:44 |
tumeninodes |
and to negate |
| 19:52 |
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ssieb joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:10 |
IhrFussel |
I'm trying the newest Android 5.0.0-dev from the forum and I gotta say you did good work ... I now see ALL menues well sized and only some (longer) text on buttons are cut-off ... that mobile players now have the full main menu and not just some simplified version is also VERY good... I am impressed |
| 20:11 |
IhrFussel |
The Content DB tab works too although it can be very laggy on phones with low performance especially the searching (it can take several seconds until something entered is accepted) |
| 20:14 |
IhrFussel |
And v7 mapgen is slow too n slow phones, but that's to be expected when even high end servers sometimes struggle with map generation |
| 20:24 |
IhrFussel |
The auto jumping on Android is also no issue anymore cause you first go up and then accelerate again |
| 20:28 |
nerzhul |
yeah it's a good android release |
| 20:31 |
IhrFussel |
Now you just need to make sure Android 4.X and 5.X users can run MT again and the GL_ENUM chat spam bug |
| 20:37 |
IhrFussel |
Android 4.X still has a marketshare of ~ 10% and Android 5.X ~ 18% (for the people who think you could abandon those, it would be a bad idea) |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
ihrfussel, and fix the main menu server list scrolling |
| 20:41 |
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FrostRanger joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:46 |
IhrFussel |
BTW there are 3 spam/scam topics in the forum that still haven't been deleted (they were reported hours ago) |
| 21:06 |
tumeninodes |
holding off so everyone can get their bank info so the bannished Prince can stash his money into our accounts ;) |
| 21:07 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel: current repartition of mt app: https://ibb.co/5L7s04H |
| 21:08 |
jordach_ |
4.x is long dead for droid |
| 21:21 |
IhrFussel |
jordach_, if about 10% of recent play store vistors still had 4.X then it's far from dead ... many cheap phones still ship with 4.4 |
| 21:25 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, I took my numbers from the official Distribution Dashboard |
| 21:25 |
IhrFussel |
https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/ |
| 21:26 |
rubenwardy |
yes, we know |
| 21:26 |
rubenwardy |
The screenshot is the version breakdown of *our app* |
| 21:26 |
rubenwardy |
that link is for all play store users |
| 21:27 |
rubenwardy |
there's no point aiming for weak devices that won't be able to run Minetest anyway |
| 21:27 |
rubenwardy |
probably why the older versions are a few percent less in the actual users |
| 21:31 |
IhrFussel |
My 4.4 phone in 2016 was able to run MT at least decently |
| 21:31 |
IhrFussel |
That's no argument |
| 21:32 |
IhrFussel |
I would call 14 fps on a server with 180 mods OK |
| 21:34 |
IhrFussel |
If you "need" to up the minimum API level you should make it 19 cause there are still enough 4.4 users ... also you forget that with 5.0.0 most other 3rd-party apps won't upgrade (yet) at launch so the expected userbase should grow a lot |
| 21:35 |
IhrFussel |
That could then give a whole different picture of distribution |
| 21:37 |
IhrFussel |
I smell conflicts anyways... if someone sets updates to auto and 5.0.0 releases and the app gets updated and they can suddenly not play on their favorite servers anymore cause they run still on 0.4.X |
| 21:37 |
Calinou |
14 FPS doesn't really sound playable or enjoyable to me |
| 21:37 |
Calinou |
most mobile games target 30 FPS, some 60 FPS |
| 21:37 |
IhrFussel |
Basic MT doesn't need 30 or 60 fps to be playable |
| 21:38 |
IhrFussel |
At ~ 18 gameplay looks pretty fluent |
| 21:39 |
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Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:41 |
IhrFussel |
Looks like you increased the view range on Android...pretty sure it was 30 before now it's 50 |
| 21:41 |
IhrFussel |
That lets fps tank too |
| 21:42 |
Calinou |
but again, view range 30 isn't really enjoyable in my experience, even if you disable fog |
| 21:42 |
IhrFussel |
Android will never be as enjoyable/comfortable as PC ... cause you just don't have the controls you would need |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
come on, just let the user decide what is or isn't playable |
| 21:43 |
IhrFussel |
Fightning monsters/other players must be bad on phone |
| 21:45 |
IhrFussel |
v7 takes seconds on many phones to generate 1 chunk ... but it's still included in the Android version |
| 21:46 |
tumeninodes |
idk know how anyone can play MTG on Android. A short while back I did try it out on my phone and the old Nexuz tablet my kid outgrew and it took me 20 min to build a 10x10 wood block with a door |
| 21:47 |
tumeninodes |
I did not notice generation to be that bad, perhaps I was not paying full enough attention though |
| 21:48 |
IhrFussel |
You notice it with fly+fast on |
| 21:49 |
bobr |
hi |
| 21:50 |
IhrFussel |
I'm sure high-end phones can do it faster but budget phones become more and more attractive because they kinda still do what expensive phones do while just looking less slick and having less features (sensors missing, small battery, plastic case) |
| 21:51 |
jordach_ |
factoid, my note 8 can run 5.0-dev at 1440p 60fps |
| 21:52 |
IhrFussel |
You get a quad core phone for less than $100 nowadays ... that quad core CPU is maybe not the best but it#s still enough power for most apps |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE |
plus old android does NOT mean slow hardware |
| 21:52 |
tumeninodes |
well V7 on the Android app, it is the most popular and widely used so not sure blocking it from the app will gain any praise |
| 21:53 |
IhrFussel |
1 GB RAM is also enough for > 80% of software |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
disabling features like that is a bad idea |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
mgv7 works perfectly fine on my phone |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
it would be better to have different defaults |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
than to remove features like that |
| 21:54 |
tumeninodes |
^ |
| 21:55 |
IhrFussel |
Or you ask users if they would prefer a "faster generation but less variety" or "slow generation, more variety" mapgen when they create a world |
| 21:55 |
nerzhul |
hey -hub |
| 21:55 |
nerzhul |
does some are interested by a minetest server distribution through docker ? |
| 21:55 |
jordach_ |
sounds useful |
| 21:56 |
nerzhul |
#7968 |
| 21:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7968 -- Add a Dockerfile + gitlab CI build by nerzhul |
| 21:56 |
jordach_ |
i don't use docker, but would be useful for less installation and outdated build bollocks |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul fix the stderr crash in the 0.4.17 apk first |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE: as i already said years ago you are too rude :D |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
the stderr crash is not reproductible on my device |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
hard :) |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
:P |
| 22:00 |
tumeninodes |
sounds new fangled and scary to me :D |
| 22:00 |
tumeninodes |
but will most likely be quite popular |
| 22:01 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul try it on an older android ver |
| 22:01 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE without the phone ? xD |
| 22:02 |
tumeninodes |
I don't understand why everyone could not just be happy with pong in the late 70s and keep everything right there |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
maybe? |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
idk how android dev works but isnt there some emulator thats commonly used for this? |
| 22:04 |
nerzhul |
emulator works but badly with GPU emulation |
| 22:04 |
nerzhul |
it's nice when you only use web or android forms, but with GPU it's bad |
| 22:10 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, it only happens on Android <6 ! Your device is likely NOT Android 5.1 or less |
| 22:10 |
nerzhul |
yep it's android 6.0 |
| 22:10 |
nerzhul |
and i don't have older device |
| 22:11 |
nerzhul |
then telling me to fix a bug i cannot reproduce is a little bit hard :) |
| 22:11 |
IhrFussel |
Then point stderr so something that works on 5.1 and less |
| 22:11 |
IhrFussel |
to* |
| 22:11 |
IhrFussel |
I read something about "#define stderr &some_pointer" |
| 22:11 |
nerzhul |
stderr is just a file descriptor |
| 22:12 |
nerzhul |
it's the pointer 2 |
| 22:12 |
IhrFussel |
Which did not exist in Android 5 |
| 22:12 |
sfan5 |
the correct way to fix this is to make gmp not use stderr |
| 22:12 |
sfan5 |
it doesn't need an IO anyway |
| 22:12 |
sfan5 |
any* |
| 22:13 |
nerzhul |
sfan5 do you know how to fix that exactly ? |
| 22:13 |
IhrFussel |
Someone I sent the 5.0.0-dev apk also cannot open it (Android 5.1.1) |
| 22:13 |
sfan5 |
I don't know where in the gmp source code it uses stderr |
| 22:13 |
sfan5 |
the other issue here is that gmp should not even be able to use "stderr" since it's not defined for our api level |
| 22:14 |
sfan5 |
is -D__ANDROID_API__=14 being set while compiling gmp? |
| 22:14 |
nerzhul |
i think we are on lesser on 0.4.17, the API increase was done on master only if i remember |
| 22:14 |
nerzhul |
maybe there are some things to backport, but i cannot test them |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
you can test if it /runs/ |
| 22:15 |
nerzhul |
but it runs already on my phone |
| 22:15 |
nerzhul |
the test is then invalid |
| 22:15 |
IhrFussel |
It will run on his devices because they are too new |
| 22:15 |
nerzhul |
:p |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
evrn if it performs poorly. |
| 22:15 |
nerzhul |
android 6.0, 2 years old, too new ? :D |
| 22:15 |
* VanessaE |
sighs |
| 22:15 |
IhrFussel |
The problem is that only devices with old versions crash |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
WAY the fuck too new |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE |
carriers dont like to push new android versions for older hw even good hw like my Galaxy S4 |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
and old != slow |
| 22:22 |
Calinou |
nerzhul: can't an emulator run Minetest? |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
it doesn't require OpenGL ES 3.0, so even GLES 2.0 acceleration should work |
| 22:23 |
nerzhul |
gpu acceleration doesn't work on my pc, maybe it doesn't work well on linux |
| 22:23 |
nerzhul |
and works on windows, but i don't have a windows |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
doesn't the emulator have a software fallback anyway? |
| 22:24 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, can you please try to set this compiler flag for GMP? -D__ANDROID_API__=14 ... just set it and then offer another apk for testing |
| 22:24 |
nerzhul |
cannot currently, it's late at home and i'm polishing my docker PR and will go to bed |
| 22:24 |
VanessaE |
gah |
| 22:25 |
* VanessaE |
fumes |
| 22:25 |
nerzhul |
sfan5: can you look at #7968 it's ready |
| 22:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7968 -- Add a Dockerfile + gitlab CI build by nerzhul |
| 22:25 |
IhrFussel |
Compiling MT should only take a few minutes but okay then |
| 22:25 |
sfan5 |
I will |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
ty sfan5 |
| 22:26 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
nevermind |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
misread. |
| 22:27 |
IhrFussel |
I guess we will have to ping stu on GH...maybe he has some more time |
| 22:28 |
nerzhul |
i don't know his timesheet |
| 22:29 |
tumeninodes |
11:30 in Switzerland so I doubt it |
| 22:29 |
tumeninodes |
pm |
| 22:29 |
* VanessaE |
grumbles |
| 22:30 |
tumeninodes |
grumble shields up |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul, oh and for thd record, calling me rude is ovef the line |
| 22:30 |
IhrFussel |
I'm still up in Germany, 23:30 means nothing |
| 22:30 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel: if the flag fixes the problem it must be properly implemented in the build system |
| 22:31 |
tumeninodes |
ahh, then you have time to fix it |
| 22:31 |
tumeninodes |
;) |
| 22:31 |
nerzhul |
or not :D |
| 22:31 |
IhrFussel |
I have time to show urgency of critical issues |
| 22:31 |
IhrFussel |
Sometimes more of that is needed |
| 22:32 |
VanessaE |
if you havd time to irc and mess about with CI crap....... |
| 22:32 |
IhrFussel |
Sometimes people need a kicm in the A ... as harsh as it may sound |
| 22:32 |
IhrFussel |
kick* |
| 22:33 |
VanessaE |
if youre gonna call me rude then you can expect just that. |
| 22:33 |
nerzhul |
i prefer using more fine tools in the A... hahaha |
| 22:33 |
nerzhul |
(yes it's time to go to bed) |
| 22:34 |
VanessaE |
*facepalm* |
| 22:34 |
Calinou |
can we not force people to work on open source projects for free? |
| 22:34 |
Calinou |
please don't pressure people into doing work for you if you're not paying them |
| 22:34 |
tumeninodes |
Calinou I have a set up in my basement for just that purpose |
| 22:34 |
nerzhul |
this will be fixed at maximum for 5.0.0 release |
| 22:34 |
jordach_ |
i'm not sure if that sarchasm or someone forgot their no log tag |
| 22:34 |
tumeninodes |
short on duct tape though |
| 22:34 |
nerzhul |
feature freeze has not started then |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
calinou: its about priorities. crash for 30% of the userbase ought to be tops. |
| 22:35 |
IhrFussel |
Calinou, you can think like that...when I see people DEDICATED to a project in their free time and then not wanting to work on it then I question what the point is |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
in volunteer-run projects, people usually work on what they want to |
| 22:35 |
nerzhul |
30% of the user base VanessaE ? |
| 22:36 |
Calinou |
it's not a RTS, you don't put 5 people in the school and 5 in the farm :) |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
yeah. |
| 22:36 |
IhrFussel |
Critical issues should ALWAYS have the highest priority...whether you like to work on it or not |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
apparently that'x abput how much of the m9bile userbase uses an old enough android to crash MT |
| 22:37 |
tumeninodes |
more parents need to go and purchase their kids a proper pc and throw these phones i the trash |
| 22:37 |
tumeninodes |
*in |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
gah typos... i hate irc on a pone |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
phone* |
| 22:37 |
IhrFussel |
If even the STABLE 0.4.17.1 on the play store has this crash issue ... then it would explain why so few people use it on my server |
| 22:38 |
jordach_ |
>expecting professionalism from hobbyist open source |
| 22:38 |
tumeninodes |
^ |
| 22:38 |
jordach_ |
how many times in the last three years have i tried explaining that |
| 22:38 |
jordach_ |
goes over their heads like a V2 rocket |
| 22:38 |
tumeninodes |
Jjjjjjjshoooom |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul take 60s anc read the reviews on the play store |
| 22:39 |
tumeninodes |
wait... V2? really? so old and obsolete thats why it's not hittin the target |
| 22:39 |
nerzhul |
sfan5: you inverted, client is built by default not server in cmakelists.txt, trying other suggestions |
| 22:39 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 22:40 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE: the problem with a game is (like on any game working) you will have wrong notices |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul just do it |
| 22:40 |
nerzhul |
for gettext no problem, i will see if binary works without irrlicht, that can make a reduced container size can be nice |
| 22:40 |
IhrFussel |
Who talked about profession? When players on my server tell me about a CRITICAL bug then I react ASAP cause it could potentially harm my entire userbase ... I wish more MT devs would think like that |
| 22:40 |
sfan5 |
nerzhul: i meant the -DENABLE_SOUND=0 |
| 22:40 |
nerzhul |
oh |
| 22:41 |
nerzhul |
i see :) right |
| 22:41 |
nerzhul |
previous image was 209MB |
| 22:41 |
nerzhul |
i hope it will be greatly reduced without irrlicht (if it's possible) |
| 22:41 |
IhrFussel |
And I even PAY for my server, that is the opposite of getting paid |
| 22:42 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel i agree, the problem is it seems i'm the only dev you talked about those problems and speedup about this these days :p |
| 22:42 |
nerzhul |
i can take ownership of good community solutions and provide the patches, especially on android, very fast |
| 22:42 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul, well youre the android guy, are you not? |
| 22:43 |
nerzhul |
no sorry i'm just a google play store development user |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 22:43 |
nerzhul |
heh |
| 22:43 |
jordach_ |
IhrFussel, and most core devs have other real life things to attend to, not literally be on call to put sql fires out |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
case in point. |
| 22:43 |
nerzhul |
i have 3 childs < 3 years |
| 22:43 |
IhrFussel |
It seems one "Android guy" is not enough in the core dev team... maybe you should consider adding stu (if he isn't already one) |
| 22:43 |
nerzhul |
tell me which coredev has that ? |
| 22:44 |
TommyTreasure |
VanessaE, for some odd reason, i can't get homedecor installed |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul *eveyone* is complaining about lsck of time |
| 22:44 |
|
Peppy joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:44 |
nerzhul |
but i'm the only to do a reaction on IRC when users complains (paramat does sometimes too) |
| 22:44 |
jordach_ |
i'd happily dev MT for mony |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
tommy fild a github issue and i'll look when my home internet is back |
| 22:44 |
nerzhul |
give me 50k€ yearly after charges and ok |
| 22:44 |
tumeninodes |
mmmmm monies |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
er! |
| 22:45 |
TommyTreasure |
oh darn, have to revert to old version for now |
| 22:45 |
VanessaE |
tommy fild a gitLAB issue |
| 22:45 |
IhrFussel |
I'm not expecting you to leave your families just to be able to work on a free time project ... but sometimes I wonder how some people can't even have "10 minutes" to do something trivial quick |
| 22:45 |
tumeninodes |
I have 4 monies currently |
| 22:45 |
nerzhul |
(sorry but it should be competitive with my real work) |
| 22:45 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel do you know compiling android take 20 minutes |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
each try can take 10 to 15 minutes to compile |
| 22:46 |
VanessaE |
and you have to babysit it or sth? |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
especially when you are on deps |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE: no :) |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
i have my wife but she needs me |
| 22:46 |
jordach_ |
even on my strong hardware, android takes an age to compile |
| 22:46 |
jordach_ |
even making a coffee makes it even longer |
| 22:46 |
tumeninodes |
sitting on babies should be banned |
| 22:46 |
IhrFussel |
It could run in the backhround while you do something else... of course that does not apply right now when you want to sleep, but during the day I wouldn't believe that excuse |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
sfan5: good news it runs without irrlicht lib, ty |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
158MB image |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
who cares if it takes 5 mins or 2 hours to build thrn |
| 22:47 |
sfan5 |
yeah, irrlicht is not even linked |
| 22:47 |
sfan5 |
only the headers are needed during a build |
| 22:47 |
Calinou |
are you working on a Docker image for the Minetest server or just for development? |
| 22:47 |
nerzhul |
sfan5: yep |
| 22:47 |
nerzhul |
Calinou don't care about devel, but minetest server distribution instead |
| 22:48 |
nerzhul |
we don't need docker for dev, whereas it can make some contributors life easier on some systems to embed the build system in docker instead of their machine |
| 22:48 |
Calinou |
nice |
| 22:48 |
nerzhul |
it's a side effect of the need i get (provide commit based minetest servers) |
| 22:48 |
tumeninodes |
I think tenplus1 will like that |
| 22:49 |
nerzhul |
sfan5 all points are fixed, waiting for your time to finish :) |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul my problem is that in the time you spent espousing your oack of time, you could have .... oh forget it, youre not gonna listen anyways |
| 22:49 |
nerzhul |
if we can provide that on gitlab asap it can be nice |
| 22:49 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE i listen to you |
| 22:50 |
nerzhul |
but i already knows than packaging mt server in docker is less tiring than android devel whereas i'm very tired this evening |
| 22:50 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 22:50 |
nerzhul |
my last baby cries for 3 hours, it's... hard |
| 22:51 |
tumeninodes |
program babies to do dev and you will be all set :D |
| 22:51 |
nerzhul |
promise i take time on this issue this week (winter is coming & christmas too and i need to buy gifts too...) |
| 22:52 |
nerzhul |
tumeinodes waiting for you to have one and do the review :D |
| 22:52 |
VanessaE |
tommy btw i dont mean to blow you off... i'm stuck with only my phone for internet for 2 days now, no tethering, so basically i cant do any real work |
| 22:52 |
tumeninodes |
already has 2 but grown now, and still cry 3 hrs |
| 22:52 |
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garywhite joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:53 |
nerzhul |
:) |
| 22:53 |
tumeninodes |
I feel your pain |
| 22:53 |
Calinou |
I should learn Dockerizing stuff and hosting it on servers |
| 22:54 |
tumeninodes |
dockerizing is actually a word now? |
| 22:54 |
nerzhul |
for those who don't understand , it's like being near a jack hammer |
| 22:54 |
tumeninodes |
yah it is |
| 22:55 |
tumeninodes |
or under one |
| 22:55 |
nerzhul |
docker itself in a real infrasutrcture is useless you need k8s, but for mt it should be sufficient |
| 22:55 |
nerzhul |
but having k8s namespace with a pg and mt server , 1 couple in each namespace which scale on server owners demand can be cool :D |
| 22:55 |
Calinou |
eh, k8s is known to be overkill at a small scale |
| 22:56 |
Calinou |
not everyone is Amazon or Facebook, and I wish more developers understood that :P |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
if you have 2 containers yes, > 10 it starts to be interesting |
| 22:56 |
* Calinou |
looks at open source projects from GAFAM |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
the k8s control plane has a ocost |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
no need to be aws or gcp |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
just have 10 various binaries + test environments vs prod environments is sufficient for a small need |
| 22:57 |
Calinou |
consider I'm running everything the old-fashioned way on my VPS right now |
| 22:57 |
Calinou |
it works pretty well still |
| 22:57 |
nerzhul |
at least if we provide mt server in docker you can selfhost on gcp container or aws eks lol |
| 22:57 |
nerzhul |
for self hosting the best thing is to understand |
| 22:57 |
nerzhul |
my self hosted infrastructure is a k8s with 30 pods and 3 namespaces |
| 22:58 |
nerzhul |
10 scaleway vc1s nodes + 1 pine64 at home |
| 22:58 |
nerzhul |
(full arm64) |
| 22:59 |
jordach_ |
nerzhul, ayy scaleway |
| 22:59 |
jordach_ |
i have one of those beefy x86'ers |
| 22:59 |
IhrFussel |
Bad news... first stu did still reply even though it's midnight now and 2nd -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7963#issuecomment-446393663 |
| 23:00 |
* VanessaE |
sighs |
| 23:01 |
tumeninodes |
well... now there's lots of kids crying |
| 23:02 |
jordach_ |
android 4 is a mess API wise |
| 23:02 |
tumeninodes |
those kids parents need to give their kids real equipment rather than their old stuff while buying themselves the new shit |
| 23:02 |
IhrFussel |
If you really drop support for Android <6 then say goodbye to "users will migrate to our app" |
| 23:02 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 23:03 |
VanessaE |
to them, MT will be dead. |
| 23:03 |
IhrFussel |
And most of the hard work you did JUST to make the Android shitshow app more user friendly, will be wasted |
| 23:03 |
tumeninodes |
it's their parents faults not MT dev |
| 23:04 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE: they just won't have new updates |
| 23:04 |
VanessaE |
tumeni, its the economy. one high end mobile is expensive enough as it is |
| 23:04 |
IhrFussel |
That was the original reason for the Android overhaul don't forget that ... "so that people don't have to choose multicraft or other ad-infested apps over ours anymore" |
| 23:05 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul wrong |
| 23:05 |
tumeninodes |
yes and selfish parents get that one for themselves and throw their old unit to the dogs (I mean the kids) |
| 23:05 |
nerzhul |
i have one other app on the play store and older devices are stuck with old version when i upgraded the minimum version |
| 23:05 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul, no updates = dead app eventually. |
| 23:05 |
IhrFussel |
You forget that 5.0.0 is NOT compatible with 0.4.X |
| 23:06 |
IhrFussel |
So you essentially say goodbye then to all Android 4/5 users |
| 23:06 |
nerzhul |
we don't know their usecase |
| 23:06 |
nerzhul |
solo ? multi ? |
| 23:07 |
IhrFussel |
paramat will not accept this idea of dropping 35% of Android users...I'm sure of that |
| 23:07 |
tumeninodes |
eventually, that is going to happen anyway. Or... could just put a halt to all dev altogether and just keep MT at 0.4.17.1 forever |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
no one plays singleplayer for very long, let alone on a mobile |
| 23:07 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel they are not dropped if we go to 5.0.0 i don't see the point there |
| 23:08 |
nerzhul |
ndk ensure the compat and the packaging |
| 23:09 |
IhrFussel |
What? 5.0.0 cannot support Android 4 or 5 if you don't fix this issue until release ... so that means they are stuck on 0.4.X and you will make it even MORE controversial for server owners to upgrade |
| 23:09 |
IhrFussel |
You SPLIT a large chunk of the userbase with no return unless they buy new devices |
| 23:09 |
jordach_ |
>controversial |
| 23:09 |
jordach_ |
>gets left behind by all mod makers on PCs |
| 23:09 |
tumeninodes |
put the word out, holidays are coming soon kids... throw a tantrum to get your folks to buy you a new Android device... then go buy some stock in Android |
| 23:09 |
nerzhul |
which issue ? thecrash issue ? i don't say it's not solveable |
| 23:10 |
jordach_ |
s/Android/Alphabet/g |
| 23:11 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, stu says that Android 4 and 5 cannot be supported it seems unless we change back to gcc |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul, 20 mins to compile, was it? 3 hours later..... |
| 23:12 |
VanessaE |
ihr, he might jusg have missed something on that. |
| 23:12 |
VanessaE |
just* |
| 23:18 |
sofar |
#define stderr |
| 23:19 |
IhrFussel |
jordach_, you have no MT server right? Then you likely also don't understand how 1. difficult is to even reach players cause there are wayyy too many servers for wayyy too few players and 2. how close you get to some of them ... I wouldn't want to lose >= 35% of my playerbase just because the devs cannot find a way to support older Android versions |
| 23:19 |
sofar |
not having a server doesn't mean your voice should go unheard |
| 23:20 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think Stu's conclusion is correct |
| 23:20 |
jordach_ |
>doesn't realise i've had servers prior to 0.4.15 |
| 23:20 |
sofar |
that bug thread is ... complex |
| 23:20 |
IhrFussel |
No, but "playerbase doesn't matter more than new mods" is not what most server owners think |
| 23:20 |
jordach_ |
except mods are the content |
| 23:21 |
IhrFussel |
I'm sure most serious and established server owners would rather keep their playerbase and leave newer mods behind |
| 23:21 |
sofar |
please speak for yourself |
| 23:21 |
sofar |
"I think..." |
| 23:21 |
sofar |
unless you have some data that includes other server owners' opinions |
| 23:21 |
IhrFussel |
Cause a server is NOTHING without playerbase |
| 23:22 |
IhrFussel |
It's a dead service |
| 23:22 |
IhrFussel |
You want to offer a dead service that you pay for monthly? GOOD |
| 23:22 |
sofar |
not my point |
| 23:22 |
sofar |
you keep saying "server owners" and "we" but you mean "I" |
| 23:23 |
sofar |
I'm not saying your voice should be unheard |
| 23:23 |
sofar |
I'm saying, please let other server owners speak and don't speak for them, please |
| 23:24 |
jordach_ |
back in 0.4-20120112 days i held the biggest MT server around for like 6 months before moving onto redcrab, like everyone else :^) |
| 23:24 |
IhrFussel |
I say established server owners will likely rather keep their players cause those are much more valuable than mods/features ... I want to know which serious, established server owner would choose content over playerbase |
| 23:24 |
IhrFussel |
That would make little sense |
| 23:24 |
sofar |
you're making assumptions about other server owners |
| 23:24 |
sofar |
again |
| 23:24 |
jordach_ |
i'm currently balls deep into the set_sky PR i've been working on at the minute |
| 23:24 |
VanessaE |
he's right, sofar. |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
yes but he keeps making statements that ass u and me when it comes to other server owners |
| 23:25 |
IhrFussel |
It may be different for NEW servers ... cause don't have a real playerbase yet... but after 2 or 3 years you don't want to LOSE your active players |
| 23:25 |
VanessaE |
fair enough. |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
it's literally all he does from what I can see |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
and it's been going on for months |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
just say " I have a problem with it, because on my server xxxxx" |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
or "this may deter players on my server ..." |
| 23:26 |
jordach_ |
reeeeeeeee bow to my demands of 5 super active players |
| 23:26 |
IhrFussel |
I said I want to read here that a server owners is happy to lose lots of active players |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
heck almost everyone talking in here has a server |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
or has, for a significant amount of time, ran one/several/many |
| 23:27 |
rubenwardy |
I'll probably be running 3 servers when 5.0.0 releases |
| 23:28 |
rubenwardy |
CTF for 5, CTF for 0.4, and Capitalism game |
| 23:28 |
IhrFussel |
It just goes against logic...if you are happy to lose good players then why do you even have a server? What is the point if your players don't matter |
| 23:28 |
rubenwardy |
I'll be disabling features on the old server, such as the score board |
| 23:28 |
rubenwardy |
And the new server will get cool features like slippery nodes |
| 23:28 |
sofar |
IhrFussel: feel free to make a forum poll and take the thread there |
| 23:29 |
VanessaE |
ruben, maybe you can offer stu a correction? (since you said he's probably wrong) |
| 23:29 |
rubenwardy |
It depends how much you value random users or loyal users |
| 23:29 |
rubenwardy |
If you have a tight knit set of loyal users, then they'll follow you |
| 23:30 |
VanessaE |
people are fickle, though.. |
| 23:30 |
sofar |
MT4->5 conversion of ITB will be interesting |
| 23:30 |
rubenwardy |
But if you have a large number of less knit users, like most servers, they probably won't |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
I doubt it'll be complicated, though |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
sofar: you could do the same as me |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
Host 2 versions, disable score board on one |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
Also disable box creation on ine |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
some of my best, most loyal players are long gone, through no fault of mine or MT devs |
| 23:31 |
jordach_ |
VanessaE, sadpepe.png |
| 23:32 |
VanessaE |
:P |
| 23:34 |
jordach_ |
was quite busy 4-5 years ago |
| 23:34 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy, maybe you can offer stu a correction? (since you said he's probably wrong, and he now says he's out of ideas) |
| 23:34 |
rubenwardy |
I don't have any ideas anyway |
| 23:34 |
rubenwardy |
*either |
| 23:35 |
rubenwardy |
My point was that I don't think it's impossible to release for Android 4 |
| 23:35 |
VanessaE |
oh. |
| 23:36 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: easy enough spinning up a testing ITB deployment, so won't be so hard to do when it's needed |
| 23:39 |
IhrFussel |
The goal for 5.0.0 is to make the new shiny version as attractive as possible for server owners so that they feel the urge to quickly upgrade... but in case Android 4/5 are dropped, you will probably reach the opposite |
| 23:41 |
IhrFussel |
And you will still not be able to migrate all those multicraft players cause they will stay there (I expect the Multicraft and other devs to find a way to support old Android because each user is money for them) |
| 23:45 |
IhrFussel |
Well...I'm off to bed now ... goodnight |
| 23:53 |
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Peppy_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 23:56 |
tumeninodes |
yeh, and too bad those pay to play devs won't port anything back upstream..., they make their $ off others work |
