| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:40 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:56 |
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| 01:40 |
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| 02:45 |
paramat |
minecore doesn't need picks it's already full of holes |
| 03:20 |
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| 03:36 |
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| 04:08 |
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| 05:34 |
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| 08:38 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:50 |
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| 11:18 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:21 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:01 |
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Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:31 |
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JordachNote8 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:32 |
JordachNote8 |
Beep beep |
| 12:32 |
JordachNote8 |
Finished my interview in london |
| 12:32 |
JordachNote8 |
Currently on a train home |
| 12:40 |
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sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:48 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:00 |
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CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:03 |
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lumberJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:27 |
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Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:30 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:42 |
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RobbieF joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:43 |
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lisac joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:05 |
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benrob0329 joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:23 |
Fixer |
RIP SP |
| 15:39 |
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CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:03 |
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CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:03 |
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IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:03 |
IhrFussel |
There was someone named "Jordach" on my server and I'm pretty sure it#s not the real one |
| 16:04 |
IhrFussel |
But no bot either (talked in chat) |
| 16:04 |
Mr_Pardison |
!seen Jordach |
| 16:04 |
MinetestBot |
Mr_Pardison: jordach was last seen at 2018-02-08 12:28:13 UTC on ##minetestbot |
| 16:05 |
Mr_Pardison |
yesterday, about 6 am local time for me. |
| 16:07 |
IhrFussel |
I already know who it is...but I wonder why they chose that name...is it a common one? Doesn't sound like it |
| 16:08 |
Mr_Pardison |
name thief. |
| 16:11 |
|
sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:30 |
rubenwardy |
anyone know any good mods for ancient architecture - Greek/Roman |
| 16:41 |
Krock |
only castles comes in my mind |
| 16:45 |
benrob0329 |
Illuna's VIP server has some Greek builds, might want to ask on #illuna what they use |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
did some scouting |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
there's darkage, which is mostly medieval-ish |
| 16:58 |
rubenwardy |
but has things like marble |
| 16:59 |
Krock |
technic worldgen 8) |
| 17:01 |
Mr_Pardison |
technic has other stuff which we shouldn't take for granite *ba dum tss* |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
huh |
| 17:04 |
benrob0329 |
Heh |
| 17:32 |
Raven262 |
rubenwardy, you might be looking for this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18208 |
| 17:32 |
rubenwardy |
oh nice! |
| 17:32 |
rubenwardy |
perfect |
| 17:32 |
rubenwardy |
thanks |
| 17:33 |
Raven262 |
Np, It was the first thing that came to mind :) |
| 17:33 |
Mr_Pardison |
that looks amazing. |
| 17:33 |
Mr_Pardison |
really like what Greek designs look like. |
| 17:40 |
Megaf |
I use castles and darkage |
| 17:44 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:45 |
Megaf |
Hey Jordach |
| 17:45 |
Mr_Pardison |
'ello Jordach |
| 17:45 |
Jordach |
i hurt |
| 17:46 |
Jordach |
i went to london to do my interview |
| 17:46 |
Jordach |
all done properly, i just hurt like fuck |
| 17:46 |
Megaf |
define hurt |
| 17:47 |
Jordach |
my knees nearly fucked me over 5 mins ago trying to get down |
| 17:47 |
Megaf |
Jordach: Tho I'm very happy for you, because you had this opportunity |
| 17:47 |
Megaf |
Jordach: how old are ya? You not too young to hurt your knees? |
| 17:47 |
Megaf |
fat maybe? |
| 17:47 |
Mr_Pardison |
we celebrate later when Jordach feels better as celebrating while not in your best shape isn't good for anyone. |
| 17:48 |
Megaf |
well, it's just an interview... |
| 17:48 |
Megaf |
I had some as well |
| 17:48 |
Jordach |
Megaf: i can walk, just joints upto my knees have always been shit |
| 17:48 |
Megaf |
I'm actually working on getting a job from the last one |
| 17:48 |
Megaf |
it'd be nice if Jordach and me both get a job |
| 17:49 |
Mr_Pardison |
that would be. |
| 17:50 |
Megaf |
CBugDCoder: ThomasMonroe: We got some praying to do. :P |
| 17:50 |
* Jordach |
has a soft blanket and sits back with some OwOwatch |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
Heya Jordach |
| 17:50 |
Jordach |
my joints feel like icecubes |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
Ouch |
| 17:51 |
benrob0329 |
Congrats on the job interview tho |
| 18:10 |
Fixer |
Krock: TRIGGERED |
| 18:11 |
Fixer |
OOM |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
TRIGGER |
| 18:13 |
Krock |
Fixer, download RAM now, guys. |
| 18:13 |
Fixer |
Krock: technic worldgen and darkage mapgen both suck and crash with OOMs for me, unfortunately :( |
| 18:14 |
Fixer |
I don't understand this, why not utilise CPP minetest apis to generate those custom ores? |
| 18:15 |
Megaf |
There is a website where you can download RAM |
| 18:15 |
Megaf |
here https://downloadmoreram.com/ |
| 18:16 |
Megaf |
Fixer: ^ |
| 18:16 |
Fixer |
"Cryptocurrency Mining Malware Infected Over Half-Million PCs Using NSA Exploit" |
| 18:16 |
Megaf |
and can chose speed and size for the ram |
| 18:16 |
Megaf |
From 4 GB to 32 GB |
| 18:17 |
Megaf |
Fixer: lovely |
| 18:17 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: it wont work on Apple devices though, too locked down |
| 18:17 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: I just used on my mac |
| 18:18 |
Megaf |
oh wait, not yet |
| 18:18 |
Megaf |
lemme try |
| 18:18 |
Krock |
Fixer, perhaps the ore type does not exist as C++ function yet |
| 18:18 |
Fixer |
Krock: i'm sure somewhere in lua api there is docs for generating ores |
| 18:18 |
Fixer |
yeah, it is in lua, i was wrong |
| 18:19 |
Fixer |
but it maybe be better to use lua api |
| 18:19 |
Fixer |
and not custom |
| 18:19 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: seems to have worked |
| 18:19 |
Krock |
there's a generate_ores() function for VManip for custom Lua mapgens |
| 18:21 |
Megaf |
whats the Lua function to make more RAM? |
| 18:21 |
Krock |
none but there's a garbage collector function |
| 18:26 |
Megaf |
We need a few of those in mInetest then |
| 18:33 |
Krock |
Megaf, nothing helps minetest if it's an implementation and LuaJIT issue |
| 18:35 |
Megaf |
The irony is not strong with this one |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
well, a month ago I tried to speed up and reduce the RAM usage by doing dirty pointer accesses in LuaJIT using FFI: https://pastebin.com/raw/WXAydxT3 |
| 18:35 |
Megaf |
did it work? |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
yes but the speed improvement is not noticeable |
| 18:36 |
Megaf |
Minetest is pretty speedy already |
| 18:36 |
Megaf |
it just takes too much resources for no use |
| 18:57 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:07 |
paramat |
for technic and darkage just register extra ores and core mapgen will generate them using c++, remove the lua ore gen code |
| 19:11 |
Fixer |
yeah, so why don't they REMOVE? |
| 19:12 |
paramat |
ask the author |
| 19:13 |
xerox123 |
if I make a change while in sqlite3, should the change persist in dummy backend? |
| 19:14 |
xerox123 |
because I made something while in sqlite3, quit the game, changed to dummy and the thing isn't there. but when I switch back it's there... |
| 19:15 |
|
ssieb joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:16 |
Fixer |
paramat: also, will it reduce chance of OOM? |
| 19:16 |
paramat |
yes, eliminate because core ore gen doesn't use lua memory |
| 19:17 |
Fixer |
niiice |
| 19:21 |
Fixer |
paramat: you mean this part and below? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1069 |
| 19:22 |
paramat |
no the ore API https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4985 |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
ty |
| 19:24 |
Fixer |
paramat: it is suitable both for ores and blocks like big bazalt veins? |
| 19:24 |
paramat |
also see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1143 |
| 19:24 |
paramat |
there is a vein ore yes but it's quite intensive, uses 2 3D noises |
| 19:25 |
Fixer |
but it is in CPP? no lua mem limit? |
| 19:25 |
|
Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:25 |
paramat |
correct |
| 19:26 |
paramat |
it's what core mapgen uses, only the interface is in lua |
| 19:28 |
Fixer |
"Chainsaw digs entire forest instead of single tree " lol, nice |
| 19:29 |
Mr-Pardison |
Fixer: I made a custom addition to the chainsaw where it would cut down ethereal plant life. |
| 19:30 |
Mr-Pardison |
didn't submit it in a PR tho. |
| 19:30 |
Fixer |
Mr-Pardison: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/issues/375 |
| 19:31 |
Mr-Pardison |
yeah. |
| 19:31 |
Mr-Pardison |
I'm cordial-cobra. |
| 19:31 |
Mr-Pardison |
think I should put a PR for it? |
| 19:32 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 19:32 |
Mr-Pardison |
kewel. |
| 19:33 |
Mr-Pardison |
will have to grab it off my flash drive first (which I don't have on me) and then make the PR. |
| 19:33 |
Mr-Pardison |
should be up either Monday or Tuesday at the latest. |
| 19:34 |
* Shara |
reads issue thread |
| 19:34 |
* Shara |
remembers why she doesn't let technic be on her servers |
| 19:34 |
sofar |
technic has an open exploit still I think |
| 19:34 |
Mr-Pardison |
issue is for it to respect protection. |
| 19:34 |
sofar |
formspec exploit |
| 19:35 |
Fixer |
Mr-Pardison: i mean, if you have already done PR and you use it and it is kinda fun, wth not to post it :) |
| 19:35 |
Shara |
I never even looked at it closley, but it felt full of problems to me |
| 19:35 |
Mr-Pardison |
I haven't made a PR yet but will do so by Tuesday at the latest. |
| 19:35 |
sofar |
tbh it's only one, and I did a pretty in-depth scan of it |
| 19:35 |
Mr-Pardison |
it should be up by Monday. |
| 19:35 |
Shara |
It's quite possibly the mod I've been begged to add the most times... but no, never |
| 19:36 |
benrob0329 |
I like servers that add content smartly |
| 19:36 |
Fixer |
Shara: thats why we need simpler technic, that has basic mashines and tubes, not too complicated |
| 19:36 |
Shara |
benrob0329: I try. |
| 19:36 |
benrob0329 |
You can have a decent game without using really heavy code |
| 19:36 |
Shara |
In all honesty, I didn't have much clue about how to judge good mods from bad when I started, but I took time to learn, and then corrected mistakes. |
| 19:37 |
Shara |
Which is why RC has a whole bunch of mods that have been massively edited from the originals. |
| 19:38 |
Shara |
Mostly in ways that don't need much maintenance |
| 19:39 |
Shara |
Mesecons is probably the mod I use which I'm most cautious about now |
| 19:39 |
paramat |
for good reason |
| 19:40 |
Shara |
I have most of the nodes requiring a priv in order to be placed |
| 19:40 |
Shara |
But the server still gets an occasional "lag machine" built on it |
| 19:40 |
Mr-Pardison |
and those of us that have it must be very careful. |
| 19:41 |
Shara |
I think servers that add lots of machine type mods (mostly if they are also creative) with no restrictions in place are just asking for trouble. |
| 19:42 |
Megaf |
the very reason I never installed Technic is safety |
| 19:42 |
Megaf |
I have same simular concirns about Mesecons, tho in Mesecons I can just disable the modules I dont want |
| 19:43 |
|
aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:57 |
Shara |
Megaf: restrict by privs if you have worries. That's what I do |
| 20:13 |
Sokomine |
rubenwardy: ask twoelk. he has built ancient roman houses |
| 20:15 |
|
CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:16 |
Sokomine |
Fixer: darkage is too old for the newer features in the api that support spawning of materials the way darkage needs it. i'm not even sure which fork is most up-to-date. which is a pity because it's a very nice mod |
| 20:19 |
Sokomine |
Shara: not much point having technic on a creative server |
| 20:19 |
Shara |
Sokomine: you'd be surprised |
| 20:20 |
Shara |
For many players it's just about making machines, not about the machines then producing anything you need |
| 20:21 |
Sokomine |
Fixer: simpler technic as such doesn't help. it's the actual usage of such nodes that makes it painful. these machine usually generate something from something else, taking materials and time. if it takes a lot of time and requires the mapblock to be loaded, people will build their machine park as close to spawn as they can in order to keep it loaded and "get rich". nobody wants to just stand next |
| 20:21 |
Sokomine |
to his machines for ages. so...spawn gets sloooow |
| 20:22 |
Megaf |
[20:20:21] <Shara> For many players it's just about making machines, not about the machines then producing anything you need |
| 20:22 |
* Megaf |
hides |
| 20:22 |
* Megaf |
hides his machine that is able to build every single craftable item automatically |
| 20:23 |
Megaf |
(machine also gathers resources on its own) |
| 20:23 |
Megaf |
and its modular |
| 20:23 |
Megaf |
and biug |
| 20:23 |
Megaf |
big |
| 20:23 |
Sokomine |
Shara: making machines that work just for the fun of it is certainly valid. could be done on a small seperate server |
| 20:24 |
* Sokomine |
takes sharas build-machine-priv away from megaf and places megaf far away from spawn just to be sure :-) |
| 20:25 |
Megaf |
my machine is actually close to spawn so it gets activated more often |
| 20:25 |
Megaf |
I went as far as building a city on top of the machine |
| 20:25 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:26 |
Sokomine |
megaf: that's what i mean. was very prominent on landrush. the place below the mostly inconspicious looking spawn was plastered with underground floors filled with machinery |
| 20:27 |
Megaf |
tho the city and machine are after active range from spawn |
| 20:27 |
Sokomine |
and vanessaes survival server got a lot of complex machinery that produce almost anything right below spawn. i still think that's what's making it almost impossible to do anything on the server :-( |
| 20:28 |
Shara |
I sadly find the VE servers mostly unplayable, or at least whichever ones it is that have those issues. |
| 20:29 |
Sokomine |
i don't think that "takes time" is a good approach for machines gameplay-wise. that's also why you need to hit the "machines" in cottages repeatedly and click on a button in the plasterwork machine |
| 20:31 |
Sokomine |
yes, sadly. my computer suffers a lot at ve-s. yet it's also the server i like most |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
Shara: :( |
| 20:34 |
Shara |
VanessaE: whichever the server was that I last joined - I can't even join without my client crashing now |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
looks like it was my Dreambuilder Survival |
| 20:35 |
Shara |
I guess it would work from a different name though. Seems to be linked to that one spot (I was using a different name anyway I think) |
| 20:35 |
Megaf |
AFAIK VE servers use high res textures |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
it's up to the engine devs to fix your crashed. |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
es* |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
Megaf: nope. |
| 20:36 |
Shara |
And I wish they would :) |
| 20:36 |
Megaf |
VanessaE: Im quite sure I saw a VE server with high res texture paclk |
| 20:36 |
Megaf |
tho this was like, 4 or 5 years ago |
| 20:36 |
VanessaE |
Megaf: no, you didn't. |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
none of my servers have ever run custom texture packs, let alone high res textures |
| 20:37 |
* Megaf |
is going crazy |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
and my oldest server is only like 3y old |
| 20:37 |
Megaf |
maybe I was crazy back then and now Im getting better, most likely |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 20:38 |
Megaf |
This week was quite good for me, brain wise |
| 20:41 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: yes. and you say "only". and buildings are kept from the beginning and preserved. that's one of the points why i love your server so much even though i can't really join it anymore |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 20:41 |
Sokomine |
other server owners sadly switch maps like their underpants |
| 20:42 |
Megaf |
I had 3 map switches in 6 years |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
I basically only switch maps if the map file becomes corrupt, or the world becomes so horribly organized that it can't be cleaned up. |
| 20:42 |
Shara |
I've never switched. |
| 20:42 |
Megaf |
tho I cound as 2 map switch because the first one I count as a total different server |
| 20:42 |
Sokomine |
Shara: your server is still a newcommer compared to vanessas :) |
| 20:42 |
Megaf |
count* |
| 20:43 |
Shara |
Not really if her oldest is only about 3 years |
| 20:43 |
|
twoelk joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
1 actual map switch in 3 or so years (I don't count the original VE-Creative map, the original server was just for testing) |
| 20:43 |
Shara |
Mine's into it's third year you realise |
| 20:43 |
Megaf |
Megaf Server, Megaf Till It Ends ands Megaf After The End (AKA Megaf Server v4) |
| 20:43 |
Megaf |
Till it Ends and After The End I count as same server with different map |
| 20:44 |
Megaf |
reason it has 5 years "only" |
| 20:44 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: yes, and that switch from the very first map to the second one was a very well-done switch. not just "ups, er, let's take a new map" but instead as well-built spawn and roads as possible plus saving of what was worth saving. good maintenance and cleanup. wish all server owners would be that way |
| 20:45 |
Sokomine |
Shara: hmm. i'm pretty sure it has to be older than that. your rc-server came a lot later |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
in any case, it's up to the core devs to make the client gracefully handle what the server throws at it |
| 20:45 |
Shara |
Sokomine: Probably depends on map restarts? |
| 20:45 |
Shara |
I'm sure I remember people talking about one of the VE servers just having had a map restart around the time I first began hosting |
| 20:45 |
Sokomine |
Shara: hm, no. but i'm pretty sure vanessas server is older than just 3 years. with the same map |
| 20:45 |
Sokomine |
would have to check old screenshots to be sure |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: don't forget daily backups, and the well-planned public mains grid on VE-Survival :) |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
But I was never sure how long ago the thing they talked about was |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
Either way, stop calling me a newcomer. |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
oh my |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
I've been here long enough for you to take me seriously now :P |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
VE-Creative is 4.9 years old? |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
Impressive :) |
| 20:46 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: the daily backups are of high value :-) and that's not the only thing: backups are actually used if needed, griefers are thrown out if possible |
| 20:46 |
VanessaE |
(VE-S is 3.2y) |
| 20:47 |
Sokomine |
the well-planned public mains grid is rather a step in the other direction :-) i suspect it contributes to me not really beeing able to join :-) |
| 20:47 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: nah, it's much leaner than it used to be |
| 20:48 |
Sokomine |
Shara: *g* it's all just relative :) mt as such is a newcomer. redcrab...well, that is old :) or was. sadly does not seem to work any longer |
| 20:48 |
VanessaE |
and the overhead lines are high enough that they'll be out of view on the slowest clients (short view range) |
| 20:49 |
Sokomine |
Shara: and don't worry. it looks as if your server will work for a long time. it is very close to vanessaes approach of maintaining a server and does fit what i expect of a server very very closely. it's only that it's creative...just really can't handle that as such. creative priv is fine, creative mode is...tricky |
| 20:49 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: i still look in fear at all the produce-everything-machines around spawn :-) |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: that's ironic coming from someone who maintains a Technic store near the spawn ;) |
| 20:50 |
Fixer |
Sokomine: spawn gets slow even without those damn machines |
| 20:50 |
Sokomine |
having to switch between too diffrent digging speeds is somewhat tricky for me. it's more about controlling the client |
| 20:50 |
* Sokomine |
looks innocently at VanessaE |
| 20:51 |
Sokomine |
(need to...er...gather some minegeld somehow :)) |
| 20:51 |
Sokomine |
when i built that i thought of small tiny household-machines - mini-networks, not connected :-) |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 20:52 |
Sokomine |
fixer: hm. if there are still other reasons for making spawn slower then those ought to be located and eliminated |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
in any case, |
| 20:53 |
Fixer |
Sokomine: unless spawn is protected entirely, it tends to be slower with time due to digging around and below causing more and more complexity and render |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
there's really no reason clients should render spawn so poorly just because it has lots of mostly-hidden machines - it's the server running the machines' code, not the client. |
| 20:54 |
Sokomine |
fixer: sounds convincing. but that'd affect other areas with complex structures as well? maybe it's just less obvious there. or less complex |
| 20:54 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: i suspect it's the frequent updates. you can't send the mapblock with spawn to the client once and then hope it's done. all those mapblocks change constantly and need to get sent, processed and displayed by the client |
| 20:54 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: minetest actually renders shitton of stuff below and above and behind buildings |
| 20:55 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: that'd be fine if there were visible changes taking place all the time, but there just aren't |
| 20:55 |
* Sokomine |
eyes all the traffic lights, machines, displays and the like |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: yeah, I know it does. That really REALLY needs addressed. |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: only one display screen, and only a dozen or so lights that change only every few seconds |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
whatever's slowing the rendering down must, by definition, be in the dozens-of-times-a-second domain, not every few seconds |
| 20:57 |
Sokomine |
every few seconds - that's still something :-) and those machines in the underground aren't fixed either. some grow plants, harvest them, turn them into other materials...lots and lots of metadata changing |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
if the server is sending mapblock updates dozens of times a second, that's also an engine problem. |
| 20:58 |
Sokomine |
hm. could be. still, i doubt that all these frequent updates make it easier |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
not to mention, dozens-a-second would just plain kill your network bandwidth |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
so no. |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
since that isn't happening, this is a client problem |
| 21:02 |
Sokomine |
hmm |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: remember, RBA once said the signs are being composited and re-rendered continuously in realtime rather than being cached |
| 21:03 |
Sokomine |
maybe not dozens-a-second. still...frequently. maybe in the range of 2 seconds or so? the plants grow, the nodebreaker eats them, pipeworks sends the nodes on, machines process it, chests receive the output...that does mean quite frequent changes. not mulitple per second but many |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
(as in all the [combine and related compositing strings) |
| 21:03 |
Sokomine |
oh |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
idk if that's actually accurate, but if he said it, it has a grain of truth |
| 21:04 |
Sokomine |
certainly |
| 21:04 |
Mr-Pardison |
fixer: will have that PR up by tuesday. |
| 21:04 |
Mr-Pardison |
g2g cya |
| 21:05 |
Jordach |
you know those spy kids movies with iris scanners and all that sci-fi |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
he was the expert in that area. i don't think too much has changed in that area since then |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
and remember, those are static signs, they never change unless someone walks over and edits one. |
| 21:05 |
Jordach |
i just realised we have that *now* |
| 21:07 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: maybe it all sums up |
| 21:08 |
Sokomine |
Jordach: don't remember if i ever saw more of that film than a part. wasn't that intresting iirc. what else apart from iris scanners was shown there? such scanners can be seen in many movies, not even really sf |
| 21:09 |
Jordach |
Sokomine: we've not had comsumer grade iris scanners that are actual sci-fi style with near instant recognition |
| 21:10 |
benrob0329 |
#Minetest-Chat |
| 21:10 |
Jordach |
my phone can look at me in near darkness and unlock itself by having my iris' checked |
| 21:10 |
Jordach |
^ normies only :^) |
| 21:11 |
benrob0329 |
Unless you want people to complain about the logs... |
| 21:11 |
Sokomine |
Jordach: ah. wouldn't allow my phone to do that |
| 21:11 |
Sokomine |
hmm. having one that follows your eye movements instead of doing an iris scan might be intresting. and use that for steering in mt :-) |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
Chuck Norris does not get authenticated by his phone. Instead, his phone is authenticated by him. |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
sorry, 2011 called |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: possibly. plus frequent technic metadata updates cause mapblocks to be re-sent/re-rendered. sadly I can't do anything to fix any of it. |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
plus I won't generally touch technic's code. that whole damn mod needs rewritten from scratch. |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
I still remember these jokes :-) |
| 21:12 |
Jordach |
Sokomine: we can do that now! https://tobiigaming.com/products/ |
| 21:12 |
Megaf |
!server <egaf |
| 21:12 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: No results |
| 21:12 |
Megaf |
!server egaf |
| 21:13 |
Megaf |
MinetestBot! |
| 21:13 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf! |
| 21:13 |
benrob0329 |
Why is -chat more on topic than -hub 🤔🤔🤔 |
| 21:13 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 21:13 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4 | 163.172.154.119:30003 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 12ms |
| 21:13 |
Sokomine |
benrob0329: sorry. i hope it's not too off-topic. but...what good servers are and why (even if it's only my personal opinon) is not too far from what the channel is good for :) and wondering why the engine can't handle spawn is something that bothers all of us in some way. i'd be very glad if a solution could be found |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
why does it even matter if it's on-topic in here, if there's no other chat going? |
| 21:13 |
benrob0329 |
Sokomine: oh I wasn't talking about that |
| 21:14 |
benrob0329 |
I was talking about tech-talk |
| 21:14 |
Shara |
I don't see how -chat is more ontopic than -hub |
| 21:14 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: so that paramat and other devs have a chance of catching up without having to read unrelated chat |
| 21:14 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 21:15 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: there a fix for that, PR by Krock, still not included for some reason |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: for what? |
| 21:15 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: block meta updates |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
oh |
| 21:16 |
Megaf |
so, CSM |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
you mean the server-only/private meta patch? |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: ^ |
| 21:16 |
red-001 |
does that not block updates? |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: RBA original PR |
| 21:16 |
Sokomine |
fixer: oh? but is it really only metadata? i don't remember right now if a machine that's working is a different one from one that's inactive |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
red-001: private meta is never sent to the client, so no mapblock updates when it changes. |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: link? |
| 21:17 |
red-001 |
VanessaE, I would expect that too |
| 21:17 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5268 (bump it) |
| 21:18 |
Sokomine |
does private meta help if it's some visible inventory that is beeing changed while the machine generates it? can't make that private? |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
that's what I thought, Fixer |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: sure, the idea is to only use "public"/normal metadata if it goes along with something else that'll cause a mapblock update anyway, or if the client really needs it, e.g. inventories or infotext, and private for literally everything else. |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
as I recall, technic's power cables all carry some meta, but they never change appearance unless someone or something adds, removes, or moves a piece of cable. |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
so private meta would be perfect for those. |
| 21:22 |
Jordach |
VanessaE: public is better |
| 21:22 |
Jordach |
mods can get the meta properly |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: "public" as in visible-to-clients. |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
not as in visible-to-mods. |
| 21:25 |
Sokomine |
ah, for cables. that sounds good. there're still all those machines that need to update their inventory. and the chests (until they're spilling over) |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
it's just an example, Sokomine, and I'm not even sure I'm right. |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
in any case, someone's gotta fix it... |
| 21:30 |
Jordach |
https://i.imgur.com/hBTlaCD.png gahhh |
| 21:30 |
Jordach |
trying to find an optimal solution |
| 21:30 |
Jordach |
so harrrrrrd |
| 21:31 |
Megaf |
red-001: we failed with -chat. chat is totally on topic |
| 21:31 |
Megaf |
(that was a joke) |
| 21:31 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: all those extra faces, eww |
| 21:31 |
Jordach |
benrob0329: those aren't actually per pixel tris |
| 21:31 |
Jordach |
those are 1 quad per 8px strips |
| 21:31 |
benrob0329 |
Still tho |
| 21:31 |
Megaf |
Jordach: have you ever tried a NURBs modeler instead of a mesh based one? |
| 21:32 |
Jordach |
benrob0329: doing this makes it easier to render extruded models without uploading the mesh to ram |
| 21:32 |
Jordach |
see HDX |
| 21:32 |
Jordach |
1 generated mesh to x*y px |
| 21:32 |
Jordach |
(based on texture def) |
| 21:32 |
Jordach |
just reuse it and use alpha to hide the missing faces |
| 21:33 |
Jordach |
https://i.imgur.com/QGINNlU.png |
| 21:33 |
Jordach |
benrob0329: ^ |
| 21:33 |
Jordach |
the outside pixel strips are cuboids |
| 21:33 |
Jordach |
and the internals are horizontal strips |
| 21:34 |
benrob0329 |
Fair enough |
| 21:34 |
Jordach |
it's done even better than numzero's generator which uploads to ram rather than reusing models |
| 21:35 |
Jordach |
all you need to do is check pixel sizes of all registered tools and inv_images |
| 21:35 |
Jordach |
and make a one size fits all mesh based on textures + tpack |
| 21:36 |
Jordach |
you not only save on ram: but it allows for ANIMATED EXTRUDED MESHES |
| 21:49 |
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| 21:53 |
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| 21:58 |
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| 22:06 |
Mr_Pardison |
Fixer: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/compare/master...cordial-cobra:patch-1 |
| 22:07 |
Mr_Pardison |
!title |
| 22:07 |
MinetestBot |
Mr_Pardison: Comparing minetest-mods:master...cordial-cobra:patch-1 · minetest-mods/technic · GitHub |
| 22:07 |
Jordach |
Mr_Pardison: are you mostly harmless with that cobra ;) |
| 22:07 |
Mr_Pardison |
Jordach: why would I want to harm anyone other than them trying to mess with me or one of my friends in a mean way? |
| 22:08 |
Jordach |
you missed the elite reference |
| 22:08 |
Mr_Pardison |
I wouldn't have gotten it anyway since I have no idea what that is. |
| 22:10 |
Mr_Pardison |
so, anyone have any comments on my PR |
| 22:10 |
Mr_Pardison |
*? |
| 22:10 |
Mr_Pardison |
I appreciate any feedback since it helps improve my work. |
| 22:12 |
IhrFussel |
Any flatearthers in here? |
| 22:13 |
IhrFussel |
xD |
| 22:13 |
sfan5 |
Minetest's earth is certainly flat |
| 22:13 |
Jordach |
sfan5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztAg643gJBA |
| 22:13 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 22:13 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: Is a round Minecraft world possible? - YouTube |
| 22:13 |
sfan5 |
expected |
| 22:13 |
Jordach |
hai jeija |
| 22:14 |
IhrFussel |
Flatearthers are spamming SpaceX videos about the recent rocket launch and the starman spinning around earth ... and I never knew that they also don't even believe in space?? Like what? |
| 22:15 |
Mr_Pardison |
they aren't very bright. |
| 22:15 |
Mr_Pardison |
like a dim bulb. |
| 22:16 |
Krock |
Mr_Pardison, you need something to compare as a dim bulb is also quite bright compared to the darkess in space |
| 22:18 |
Krock |
minetest worlds aren't flat when v5,6,7,math,valleys or carpathian are used |
| 22:18 |
Krock |
definition of flat? 8) |
| 22:19 |
Mr_Pardison |
Krock: now that you're around, mind checking out my PR for technic and tell me what you think? |
| 22:20 |
IhrFussel |
Well the rocket launch is real...the landing is also real (there are many amateur videos of it on YT) ... the only "unbelievable" thing is the dummy in the car spinning around earth..it actually really looks quite fake... here it is sped up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0c3sXRaZDA |
| 22:20 |
Amaz |
Krock: if you enable hills or lakes in the flat mapgen, that isn't flat either ;) |
| 22:20 |
Krock |
Mr_Pardison, I'm not member if minetest-mods, so I'm not the best person you can ask for that |
| 22:21 |
Mr_Pardison |
any suggestions as to whom I should talk to about reviewing this? |
| 22:21 |
Krock |
Amaz, flat != flat. mind = blown -> flat mind = flat blown -> ???? != ??? '??? |
| 22:22 |
Amaz |
:D |
| 22:22 |
Krock |
Mr_Pardison, look out for the repository owners, whether someone is active |
| 22:27 |
Fixer |
!tell Mr_Pardison i see a saw charge change, it should probably be out of this PR |
| 22:27 |
MinetestBot |
Fixer: I'll pass that on when Mr_Pardison is around |
| 22:37 |
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| 22:43 |
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| 22:43 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: "it all CG because I definitely know about such things" is all I hear. So sad |
| 22:45 |
benrob0329 |
Half of them probably aren't even legit, because its become a meme at this point |
| 22:46 |
red-001 |
yeah that camare feed from the car felt a bit werid since it wasn't really what you expect, since space is serious business (tm) (r) |
| 22:46 |
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| 22:47 |
IhrFussel |
benrob0329, it looks a lot like CGI, but it could be real...I watched a video comparing the weather of different locations (clouds) to the one in the footage and it matched |
| 22:48 |
benrob0329 |
>where's the moon |
| 22:48 |
benrob0329 |
Hate to tell you this, but the moon is a lot smaller than you think |
| 22:50 |
red-001 |
"how can we hear music if it's in space?" -- some flat earther, somewhere on a spheroid |
| 22:52 |
benrob0329 |
Oh gosh |
| 22:52 |
benrob0329 |
That can't be legit |
| 22:52 |
red-001 |
well the world is clearly a flat surfrace mapped into a torus |
| 22:53 |
paramat |
VanessaE meh, stop blaming the devs for everything :] part of the blame is the sheer complexity of your servers, and all the mesh updates. we're always trying to improve performance |
| 22:53 |
paramat |
"there's really no reason clients should render spawn so poorly just because it has lots of mostly-hidden machines" yes there is :] |
| 22:56 |
paramat |
hmm i hope there isn't on-topic chat at -chat, because then i'll have to monitor that and we're back to the same problem |
| 22:56 |
paramat |
we need an 'offtopic' channel for only offtopic |
| 22:58 |
Shara |
paramat: never going to happen |
| 22:58 |
red-001 |
yeah |
| 22:58 |
VanessaE |
paramat: mapblock updates should be cached server-side |
| 22:58 |
Shara |
But if I notice anything in -chat you need to know about, will tell you |
| 22:58 |
red-001 |
that isn't how people talk |
| 22:59 |
VanessaE |
more than one or two a second to each client is overkill and you know it. |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
and besides, if the server has to send something to the client that slows down the renderer, that's the client's fault for not handling it properly. |
| 23:04 |
VanessaE |
paramat: so. tell me something: let's assume RBA's claim that "[combine" and other compositing operations are being re-processed client-side every frame. assuming there's no other choice but to use compositing, what would be the correct solution, given all the manpower, time, etc. it would take to do it right? |
| 23:06 |
VanessaE |
(to me, the solution is simple: perform the compositing one time only, and "re-render" only the completed, static image) |
| 23:06 |
paramat |
IhrFussel Elon's quote about the car says it well: "You can tell it's real because it looks so fake, honestly. We'd have way better CGI if it was fake. The colors all look kind of weird in space. There's no atmospheric occlusion; everything's too crisp" |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
paramat: don't panic ;Z) |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
;) |
| 23:08 |
red-001 |
plus its a car in space surely space x would fake something more believable |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
red-001: I still think Elon shoulda made the mannequin animatronic ;) |
| 23:10 |
red-001 |
then livestream it on youtube with jump scares |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
not THAT kind :P |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
I was thinking more along the lines of a simple wave or something :) |
| 23:12 |
VanessaE |
(or as others have made the comparison, to take the similarity to "Heavy Metal" a bit further) |
| 23:12 |
paramat |
a client cannot ignore updates, so slowdown is inevitable. also, updates have to be sent, caching them probably has issues |
| 23:13 |
paramat |
no idea about compositing =) |
| 23:13 |
paramat |
servers have to take *some* responsibility for overloading MT |
| 23:14 |
paramat |
but yes much engine work is needed too |
| 23:15 |
VanessaE |
paramat: mapblock updates should be cached server-side, and received updates can be just stored up client side if it decides there's not enough time to process the update |
| 23:15 |
VanessaE |
there's no reason, for example, that you couldn't delay processing an update by say half a second. |
| 23:15 |
Fixer |
but that Jeija video is not Minecraft, but Minetest |
| 23:16 |
paramat |
what if the updates are constantly high-rate? it can't catch up. also, memory use |
| 23:17 |
VanessaE |
paramat: then it can discard old updates if there's something newer for the same mapblock. |
| 23:17 |
paramat |
anyway, i'm no expert :] |
| 23:17 |
paramat |
hmm well at least there's a channel where excessive offtopic can be moved too, that's good |
| 23:18 |
VanessaE |
I'd say the current discussion is as on-topic aas it can get. |
| 23:18 |
paramat |
ah good point |
| 23:18 |
paramat |
(about discarding) |
| 23:20 |
Sokomine |
so if the client doesn't redraw the mapblock every time it receives a change but just from time to time? might help to some degree. the block the player is standing on plus adjacent ones would still need immediate updates (imagine player digging/building) |
| 23:21 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: that's my point yes. |
| 23:23 |
paramat |
worth an issue |
| 23:24 |
paramat |
ugh there are capitals in the name of the chat channel |
| 23:24 |
VanessaE |
paramat: another point, as you know my servers use a lot of entities. entities are slow to render compared to a node with the same model, even if the entities are just sitting in one place, non-animated, totally static. Solve that, the compositing issue (if true), the mapblock updates question, the private metadata issue, and make the view range automatic again, and I'll bet it'll make things good agian. |
| 23:25 |
VanessaE |
well, and the occlusion culling problem too |
| 23:27 |
VanessaE |
these problems have existed for years, and us modders have done our best to keep up, but those ^ are things we just cannot work around. As server owners, we can't avoid the heavy mods, or we lose traffic. that's why I blame the devs. |
| 23:28 |
Shara |
Hah, paramat - that bugged me too! |
| 23:30 |
Shara |
But VanessaE has some very good points. My survival server has been intentionally kept as light as I possibly can keep it, while still having just enough to catch players attention... but it has hit plenty of problems |
| 23:30 |
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| 23:30 |
Shara |
Hi tumeninodes |
| 23:31 |
tumeninodes |
HI Shara |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
> mentions heavy mods |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
> "too many nodes" joins channel |
| 23:31 |
tumeninodes |
Hi Vanessa |
| 23:31 |
Shara |
Heh |
| 23:31 |
VanessaE |
your timing is impeccable, tumeninodes :) |
| 23:31 |
tumeninodes |
it's a gift |
| 23:31 |
Shara |
But there can never be too many nodes! |
| 23:31 |
tumeninodes |
nope..., just one |
| 23:32 |
IhrFussel |
I implemented a "hack protection" now ... if a user tries to connect too many times within a short timeframe, the login is blocked for 1 minute |
| 23:32 |
tumeninodes |
eh, my joke was premature |
| 23:33 |
tumeninodes |
paramat, would love to talk more about that stairs/water issue I mention before. I have no idea how to integrate it into the stairs mod |
| 23:34 |
tumeninodes |
I will be back and forth from keyboard very randomly |
| 23:37 |
IhrFussel |
The skywars server has anticheat disabled?? Lol...I see Android users taking blocks from far away |
| 23:39 |
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| 23:44 |
garywhite |
Can someone tell me if Minetest Android is written in C++/Lua just like the PC/Mac/Linux versions? |
| 23:45 |
red-001 |
yes |
| 23:45 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, huh how? reading the log? |
| 23:46 |
garywhite |
Someone seems to think that this tool from Google to turn the APK for MT into an iPhone app |
| 23:47 |
red-001 |
speaking of that pretty sure multicraft has code for running on IOS in thier repo |
| 23:48 |
red-001 |
can we backport thier code or did they go GPL? |
| 23:49 |
IhrFussel |
red-001, no, the only way to do it purely via Lua is just counting the number of connect attempts within X secs and *assume* that it's likely a "brute-force" attack |
| 23:57 |
paramat |
VanessaE entities can never be as lightweight as a node obviously. view range is manual so a player can alter it according to the environment, so that is a non-issue |
| 23:58 |
paramat |
"As server owners, we can't avoid the heavy mods, or we lose traffic" yes you can and some servers do. servers can be good without poorly coded overkill mods |
