IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-08-09

Time	Nick	Message
01:03		twoelk left #minetest-hub
01:11	red-001	so I wasn't exactly active lately and it seems I missed something
01:12	red-001	did Zeno just quit?
01:13	Wayward_One	yep :(
01:14	red-001	so anyone care to give me a tl;dr?
01:14	red-001	don't feel like digging through chat logs and some mentally unstable guy's blog
01:19	VanessaE	red-001: he feels Minetest isn't really progressing forward at a pace that suits him, best I could tell.
01:19	VanessaE	but I imagine he's just taking a break
01:19	red-001	understandable
01:20	red-001	through that does tend to happen in open source in general
01:37	red-001	oh I see OC is still doing what he does best
01:37	red-001	thinking he has power to do anything
01:42	VanessaE	yep.
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08:50		Topic for #minetest-hub is now http://hub.minetest.net/info \| http://hub.minetest.net/regulars \| Logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/
09:12		Fixer joined #minetest-hub
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10:13		tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
10:13	tenplus1	hi folks
10:16	tenplus1	Real Torch updated to 0.7 - can relight torches using flint & steel and gunpowder (be careful), also configurable times
10:16	shivajiva	Morning tenplus1 :)
10:17	tenplus1	hi Shiva o/
10:18	tenplus1	added some fun features to real torches :P
10:18	red-001	morning tenplus1
10:18	tenplus1	hi red :)
10:18	red-001	long time no see
10:18	tenplus1	was about to say the same... ehehe
10:18	tenplus1	how's tricks ?
10:20	CWz	ello tenplus1
10:20	tenplus1	hi cw
10:20	tenplus1	o/o/o/
10:22	tenplus1	shiva: when a torch burns out you can relight with the usual coal powder, flint & steel, but if you use gunpowder it causes a little explosion which still lights the torch :) but if you use the gunpowder on a LIT torch it hurts player
10:26	shivajiva	LOL that sounds fun
10:27	tenplus1	ehehe, hopefully gonna add it to Xanadu tonight
10:27	tenplus1	wonder how they will react to torches having a life before going out
10:27	shivajiva	does the FOSS nature of the Linux kernel make it a security risk?
10:27	tenplus1	I wouldn't think so
10:27	shivajiva	I'd imagine they will complain :)
10:28	tenplus1	will be adding Shara's abritorches as well which remain lit using caverealms crystals
10:28	shivajiva	so how does minetest being FOSS make it not worth securing?
10:29	tenplus1	how you mean ?
10:29	shivajiva	well sfan5 states because it's foss it cannot be reasonably secured
10:30	tenplus1	if it's (free and open source software) then it's open to cope, study, change
10:30	tenplus1	*copy
10:30	tenplus1	anyone can copy parts for use in another foss project, I think the only thing you can really secure is the name of the project
10:30	shivajiva	how they going to change server side? Client sure but not server
10:31	sfan5	shivajiva: that's not what i meant
10:31	tenplus1	?
10:31	sfan5	client-side DRM is not reasonably possible with FOSS, server-side anticheat sure is
10:31	tenplus1	oh right
10:32	shivajiva	I think it's just an excuse for not implementing security from the ground up to state FOSS isn't worth securing
10:32	tenplus1	drm could easily be broken SINCE it's foss... so no point including it
10:32	sfan5	it's not just "not worth securing"
10:32	Krock	anything that happens client side only can not be secured in a FOSS project. Server side control is needed there
10:32	tenplus1	hi sfan5, Krock
10:32	Krock	hi tenplus1
10:32	sfan5	you can't secure FOSS a la "dirty client detection" without turning it proprietary
10:32	shivajiva	minetest is not worth securing?
10:33	tenplus1	the only think i would like to secure anything is a way for servers to disable csm mods
10:33	tenplus1	other than that, it's all good
10:33		IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
10:33	tenplus1	hi fussel
10:33	Fixer	shivajiva: worth, via server-side
10:33	tenplus1	hi fixer
10:33	Fixer	hello
10:33	Krock	hi Fixer
10:34	shivajiva	ofc but sfan5 just stated it's not worth securing, I need to understand why
10:34	sfan5	i just stated why you can't secure MT client-side like stated in the GH issue
10:34	red-001	about that github issue
10:35	IhrFussel	Hello guys =) I want locked chests to be accessible by ANYONE within the protection: if minetest.is_protected(pos,clicker:get_player_name()) then minetest.chat_send_player(clicker:get_player_name(),"This chest is inside another return itemstack end << i put that inside def.on_rightclick = function(pos, node, clicker, itemstack, pointed_thing) but it doesn't seem to get called
10:35	tenplus1	brb, shopping trip a-hoy!
10:35	Krock	shivajiva, no matter how many security features you add to an open source client, they can be removed and players can cheat. Perhaps that's why it's "not worth"
10:36	Krock	notice that we only talk about the client here
10:36	shivajiva	thats a feeble excuse for leaving servers vulnerable to cheating imo, add the security to the server
10:37	Krock	IhrFussel, pastebin the code please (or github link)
10:38	sfan5	shivajiva: nobody is saying that minetest should not be secured against cheats
10:38	red-001	also what happened with the camera?
10:38	sfan5	i'm only saying that you can't do it client-side
10:38	red-001	it seems to be one node higher
10:38	shivajiva	excellent, when will it be added as a priority?
10:38	Krock	red-001, it's been like that for at least a week
10:39	Krock	but only when joining older servers (MTG versions)
10:39	sfan5	whenever a coredev has time to do this
10:39	shivajiva	in about a year then when c55 looks at it I guess
10:39	IhrFussel	Krock, https://pastebin.com/HA0fjtth
10:39	Krock	which reminds me to add a teleport command to my cheater client
10:40	sfan5	shivajiva: it depends on which kind of cheats you want to counteract
10:40	sfan5	some are easier to fix, some harder
10:40	shivajiva	flying/noclip would be good
10:41	Krock	IhrFussel, are you sure that the "formspec" meta field isn't set? (like it is in unlocked chests)
10:42	shivajiva	I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over before it sinks in and people stop assuming I want the impossible
10:42	IhrFussel	Krock, I thought returning on rightclick would prevent any further code from running...the showing formspec code is below the sound play code
10:43	Krock	you don't request impossible features. you request a huge amount of work and testing, as network lags and dropped packets won't make it easy for a 100% protection
10:43	shivajiva	I realise that Krock
10:44	Krock	IhrFussel, interesting. so you've set the "protected" field in the chest definition?
10:44	Fixer	anti -noclip and -fly
10:44	IhrFussel	Krock, I simply modified the builtin locked chest code, I didn't add a third chest type
10:55	Fixer	https://twitter.com/Ducks_Daily
10:56	red-001	huh
10:56	red-001	does the forum have an sort of spam filter system?
10:57	red-001	so if the post matches certain parameters it needs to be approved by a modderator to show up
10:59	Krock	IhrFussel, I'm also trying to figure out why it doesn't get called. weird
10:59	Krock	I seem to miss something obvious
11:00	Krock	IhrFussel, it's pipeworks
11:00	IhrFussel	Krock, I had to comment the "can_interact_with_node" out, now it seems to work...another player tried to open my locked chest inside my protection and it gave the chat message
11:01	Krock	pipeworks also overwrites this function, that's why your new code doesn't get executed
11:02	Fixer	IhrFussel: what protection you use?
11:03	Fixer	IhrFussel: use shared chests and do not overcomplicate the things
11:03	IhrFussel	I don't use pipeworks, areas is my protection mod
11:03	IhrFussel	Shared chests require keys which is a no-go
11:03	Krock	all protection mods nowadays overwrite/extend core.is_protected
11:04	IhrFussel	It already works...I added a player to my protection and he can open my locked chest now ... now I just need to modify the putting/moving/taking
11:04	Fixer	IhrFussel: no, i f you use protector redo, it has shared chests
11:05	Fixer	IhrFussel: there are other shared chests that support areas mod and other i believe
11:05	Fixer	IhrFussel: don't reinvant the wheel :D
11:05	IhrFussel	I don't want to add more mods just to have chests that work with all players inside a protection, locked chests are great for that
11:06	Krock	*reinvent
11:06	Krock	IhrFussel, you should move all this code to a separate mod, so you don't get rebase problems
11:07	Krock	minetest.override_item("default:chest_locked", { on_rightclick = function(...) ... end })
11:07	Krock	and depend on default
11:07	Krock	this kind of glue will make it easier than basically starting a MTG fork
11:31		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
11:32	red-001	hi ThomasMonroe
11:32	ThomasMonroe	hey red
11:34		CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
11:35	paramat	shivajiva https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3822 is marked as high priority, and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6219 is a possible basis for improving serverside anticheat
11:36	paramat	i would work on it myself if i had the ability with that area of code
11:36		tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
11:36	tenplus1	hi folks
11:36	Raven262	Hi ten
11:36	Raven262	How
11:37	tenplus1	o/ raven... I has lunch!
11:37	Raven262	How do you greet so fast?
11:37	* Raven262	just woke up
11:37	tenplus1	I'm 1/2 binary
11:37	tenplus1	on my mothers side
11:37	Raven262	xD
11:38	ThomasMonroe	lol
11:38	tenplus1	ehehe hows you
11:38	tenplus1	hi thomas
11:38	ThomasMonroe	hi ten
11:39	tenplus1	ooh, I updated Real Torch to 0.7... has some nice new features to play with :PP
11:41	paramat	.. and what sfan5 and Krock wrote earlier is correct
11:42	tenplus1	o/ paramat
11:43	Fixer	o_o
11:43	tenplus1	about foss ???
11:43	paramat	tenplus1 you can enforce CSM restrictions now, but that involves using a recent MT dev version and disallowing old clients
11:44	tenplus1	good good, although I wont update to test until 0.4.17 is finally released on all formats
11:44	paramat	yes the discussion above with shiva jiva
11:44	CalebDavis	hi ten
11:44	tenplus1	hi caleb
11:44	CalebDavis	hi paramat
11:44	paramat	0.4.17?
11:44	tenplus1	the latest dev breaks player model on servers
11:45	tenplus1	so am using july 19th release where player model still works (+1.0 change still there) until final release then I'll switch and urge server players to do same
11:45	paramat	0.5.0 is next, although there is some talk of releasing a 0.4.17 branch but that might not happen
11:46	tenplus1	ah ok, will wait for 0.5.0 release :0
11:47	paramat	we really should have properly bumped protocol when CSM flavours were added, instead of just adding it to version 35 ..
11:47	tenplus1	:P
11:48	paramat	maybe we need to bump to 36 now ..
11:48	tenplus1	I cant run 2 different versions easily on one system to test stable and dev... unless minetest-next will be a thing
11:49	paramat	because we didn't bump protocol properly anyone who wants to enforce CSM restrictions has to also adapt to player offset breakages
11:50	tenplus1	which is why I'm waiting for final release of 0.5.0 before I update my client, server, urge players to update and update mods to use all new 0.5.0 functions
11:50	paramat	but nerzhul insisted we didn't need to bump protocol, i should not have listened :]
11:51	paramat	yeah
11:51	tenplus1	and hopefully Google Play, f-droid, linux repos will have the update as well
12:05		Megaf joined #minetest-hub
12:05	tenplus1	hi Megaf
12:09	ThomasMonroe	hi Megaf
12:10	Megaf	hi tenplus1
12:10	Megaf	hi ThomasMonroe
12:12		DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
12:12	tenplus1	hi DI3HARD139
12:12	DI3HARD139	Hello tenplus1
12:12	tenplus1	:P
12:12	Megaf	compiling the latest stable kernel here, the 4.12.5
12:12	Megaf	let's see if I will feel any performance difference
12:12	tenplus1	ooh nice... am using 4.11 on lubuntu 17.10 beta 2 atm
12:13		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
12:13	Megaf	perhaps GPU wise there will be some gain
12:13	tenplus1	hi Jordach
12:13	shivajiva	thanks for the info paramat, both look interesting :)
12:13	tenplus1	am sure there will be for ati/intel... I got an FPS boots on 4.11
12:13	Megaf	Currently using 4.9.0-3-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.9.30-2+deb9u2 (2017-06-26)
12:14	Megaf	the one Im compiling will not be RT,. but the clock timer of it will be as fast as it can be
12:14	Megaf	and preempt too
12:14	tenplus1	good luck :) hope it turns out good
12:15	IhrFussel	Krock, can I apply the ... as function parameters?
12:16	Krock	IhrFussel, supposed to be replaced with the right params and contents, yes.
12:23		RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
12:24	tenplus1	hi RobbieF
12:29	IhrFussel	Krock, nothing happens when I right click it now https://pastebin.com/MEPM5hJb
12:29	Krock	IhrFussel, add "default" to the dependencies
12:30	Krock	no
12:30	IhrFussel	I did
12:32	Krock	IhrFussel, you forgot to put the other code from the chest registration around
12:33	Krock	aagh. it gets painful
12:33	tenplus1	lol
12:34	IhrFussel	You mean I have to put the ENTIRE register function in there?
12:39		Krock joined #minetest-hub
12:39	tenplus1	wb
12:40	Krock	thx. I've seen myself timing out o.o
12:40	Krock	* Krock has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
12:41	Krock	I see the link wasn't sent. IhrFussel: https://pastebin.com/xM2k77ke
12:41	Fixer	246 seconds is nothing
12:41	Fixer	i had huuuge timeouts on xmpp back in the day
12:41	Krock	I thought it was called "time" but I might be wrong
12:42	Krock	(instead of being "nothing")
12:45	Krock	ping IhrFussel
12:46	IhrFussel	Krock, but I still have to add the show_formspec and sound_play function in my override correct?
12:46	tenplus1	if you override a default function then you have to include everything inside it as well as your changes
12:47	Krock	IhrFussel, no. see my paste. it'll do that
12:56	IhrFussel	Just tested, a player NOT inside the protection can still open it
12:59	tenplus1	are you testing protection for the chest position, not player ?
13:00	IhrFussel	This is my mod code, I added a chest_shared in nodes.lua of default and want to override it now https://pastebin.com/XzBVXsYG
13:01	IhrFussel	I want to have the shared chest to have the exact same features as public ones except for denying access when a player not in the protection right clicks it
13:01	Krock	hmm.. that looks right
13:02	tenplus1	when testing, are you making sure that 'protection_bypass' privelage isnt in use ?
13:03	IhrFussel	I let another player test it...with and without "areas" priv ... the player doesn't have protection_bypass
13:03	tenplus1	ah okie
13:04	tenplus1	ooh, I seem to have fixed the memory leak issue in firefox by removing additional language support file
13:04	IhrFussel	I'm guessing it would be easier maybe to just add my own chest node with its own definmition (copied from default)
13:04	tenplus1	why not... I have a protected chest in protector redo
13:04	tenplus1	gives players new things to play with :P
13:15	CalebDavis	ten do you have a good name for a frozen planet
13:15	tenplus1	Hoth
13:16	tenplus1	:P
13:16	ThomasMonroe	probably should be longer than that
13:16	ThomasMonroe	:P
13:16	tenplus1	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoth
13:16	CalebDavis	its for my subgame you are trying to survive on a frozem planet
13:17	ThomasMonroe	hey ten, do you know of a reason why i am getting NodeResolver errors if i remove flowers and create a new world?
13:17	tenplus1	Hoth is the most famous of frozen planets :P it was in star wars - empire strikes back...
13:17	CalebDavis	ohh XD
13:17	tenplus1	and it gives you the reason to add a ton of skins from star wars :DDDDD
13:17	ThomasMonroe	we havent seen Star Wars(dont panic)
13:18	tenplus1	nuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuUUUuUUuuuUuuu
13:18	tenplus1	the original three movies (without cg additions) are really good
13:19	ThomasMonroe	the three things that we wouldnt watch a movie for is, 1) content, 2) violence(excessive or gory) and 3) language
13:20	tenplus1	the original star wars wasnt that bad... good story, good characters, no swearing, and not gory at all
13:20	CalebDavis	and 4) no desire to watch it
13:20	Krock	CalebDavis, Alpha Centauri Prime
13:21	ThomasMonroe	sounds like a transformer
13:21	ThomasMonroe	XD
13:21	CalebDavis	XD
13:21	ThomasMonroe	does anyone know of a reason why i am getting NodeResolver errors if i remove flowers and create a new world?
13:22	tenplus1	I had an Ice Planet Hoth world made with mods for blaster, skins etc and no water... you had to rely on shuttle drops to restock items and grow stuff... never finished it :D
13:22	tenplus1	am sure flowers is used in a few mods for items
13:22	tenplus1	dye ets
13:22	ThomasMonroe	ah thanks
13:22	ThomasMonroe	thats right
13:23	ThomasMonroe	wait nope dyes has no depends
13:23	ThomasMonroe	2017-08-09 08:04:10: ERROR[Main]: NodeResolver: failed to resolve node name 'flowers:mushroom_brown'.
13:24	ThomasMonroe	thats just one out of five errors
13:24	ThomasMonroe	all having to do witht he mushrooms
13:24	tenplus1	wait, are you running any other mods ?
13:24	ThomasMonroe	nope just minetest_game
13:24	ThomasMonroe	er a modified version
13:25	ThomasMonroe	i adjusted the mapgen
13:25	tenplus1	ohhhh, what's modified?
13:25	ThomasMonroe	wait let me check something
13:25	tenplus1	remember that flowers mod has it's own mapgen settings for flowers/mushrooms
13:25	CalebDavis	heh i got the perfect name Thermia
13:26	ThomasMonroe	niiice Caleb
13:26	ThomasMonroe	Thermioplia
13:26	ThomasMonroe	Thermoplia*
13:26	tenplus1	therm = heat
13:26	CalebDavis	with a main city of thermopolis
13:27	CalebDavis	ik thats what makes it funny
13:27	ThomasMonroe	Athermens
13:27	tenplus1	Poltar
13:27	ThomasMonroe	a = not
13:27	ThomasMonroe	not heat
13:27	ThomasMonroe	XD
13:27	tenplus1	lol
13:28	tenplus1	algid
13:28	ThomasMonroe	Athermensia
13:28	ThomasMonroe	you gotta make it sound real
13:29	CalebDavis	ok TXUA 134829
13:29	tenplus1	Planet Cauld
13:29	CalebDavis	XD
13:29	CalebDavis	cause it Cauld be warmer
13:30	tenplus1	ehehe
13:32	CalebDavis	i think Athermensia is the best name so far
13:34	IhrFussel	Lua gives me a very weird error: https://pastebin.com/HVmGXqv8 "init.lua:28: '}' expected (to close '{' at line 1) near 'can_dig'"
13:35	IhrFussel	There are more functions below can_dig that's why the error is weird
13:35	tenplus1	make line 21: end,
13:36	IhrFussel	tenplus1, full code https://pastebin.com/3SQ57TYc
13:38	tenplus1	o.O
13:38	Fuchs	note to self: limit nickchanges more
13:38	ThomasMonroe	sorry i forgot it did it across the board
13:39	Fuchs	:p
13:39	ThomasMonroe	[08:35:23] * pipo thinks X-men reached the allowed max. number of name changes in one hour!
13:39	ThomasMonroe	he only did it lik 3 times, so i did it 6 XD
13:40	Fuchs	I don't know our limit by heart
13:40	IhrFussel	Can someone please tell me what the problem is? My server cannot get online cause of it right now
13:40	Fuchs	I just know we do have one
13:41	behalebabo	IhrFussel: you have no commas after each function end
13:44	IhrFussel	behalebabo, Thank you! But the function in the default mod also doesn't have these commas o.o
13:44	behalebabo	is it at the end of the table?
13:45	ThomasMonroe	hey behalebabo, do you know why i would be getting a NodeResolver issue if I remove flowers from MTG?
13:46	behalebabo	is this an existing map?
13:46	ThomasMonroe	no
13:46	behalebabo	then no idea
13:46	IhrFussel	Your solution works anyway, thanks...and no I don't think that other function is inside a table
13:47	paramat	your modifications to MTG are likely the issue
13:47	ThomasMonroe	hmm
13:48	ThomasMonroe	i havent done anything that relates to flowers though
13:48	RobbieF	Hi there tenplus1!
13:48	RobbieF	(and all)
13:48	tenplus1	o/
13:49	tenplus1	how's things robbie ?
13:49	ThomasMonroe	hi RobbieF
13:49	RobbieF	\o not bad. Just got back from the cottage
13:49	tenplus1	kewl, a wee time away
13:49		lisac joined #minetest-hub
13:50	tenplus1	hi lisac
13:50	lisac	hey tenplus1
13:52	ThomasMonroe	paramat: yeah it looks that way, but what would of done that?
13:52	ThomasMonroe	all i did was change the mapgen in default
13:55	ThomasMonroe	paramat: i found the problem, minetest.clear_registered_decorations()
13:57	paramat	good
13:59	ThomasMonroe	hmm thats funny
13:59	ThomasMonroe	i commented it out, noerrors
13:59	ThomasMonroe	then i uncommented it and got no errors
14:00	ThomasMonroe	you know what, ik what the problem was, i restarted my client XD
14:00	benrob0329	Hello RobbieF, ThomasMonroe, tenplus1, paramat, and lisac
14:00	tenplus1	hi ben
14:00	lisac	Hi benrob0329, ThomasMonroe
14:00	lisac	Hi paramat
14:00	ThomasMonroe	hey benrob
14:01	benrob0329	How is everyone?
14:01	ThomasMonroe	doing great
14:05	Calinou	hi
14:06	ThomasMonroe	hey Calinou
14:07	tenplus1	hi Cal
14:09		behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
14:10	tenplus1	hi behalebabo
14:10	behalebabo	hi
14:15	benrob0329	Hi Calinou, behalebabo
14:19		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
14:20	RobbieF	benrob0329 \o
14:21	IhrFussel	One of my players claims they cannot craft anymore meaning the craft output field is empty...it is not reproducable on another account, client cache got deleted, server has been restarted...but issue remains
14:24	benrob0329	Did they put the right type of something in and everything?
14:25		DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
14:26	IhrFussel	Yes the player tried to craft diamond boots and put the diamonds correctly (2 on each side) ... they also say it happened suddenly...like they were able to craft something before and then suddenly not anymore
14:26	IhrFussel	I already looked at the player file, it seems ok
14:27	Fixer	IhrFussel: maybe big network lag
14:28	IhrFussel	Fixer, but why would it work on another account with the same client then??
14:28	Fixer	IhrFussel: no idea
14:29	Fixer	IhrFussel: what is client of that player? official? OS?
14:30	IhrFussel	The player just left, I'll send them an offline message
14:31	IhrFussel	But I'm pretty sure the client is official since they play on PC
14:32	Fixer	maybe a bug in armour mod or smth
14:32	IhrFussel	Fixer, nope the player cannot craft ANYTHING...the craft output field is empty no matter the recipe
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15:22	tenplus1	hi twoelk
15:22	twoelk	o/
15:22		paramat joined #minetest-hub
15:22	tenplus1	::P
15:22	tenplus1	wb paramat
15:26	twoelk	after updating four customised portableapps bundles on our company intranet and my personall version, I finally updated my games sellection - and still wonder why there seems to be hardly any interest to make a minetest version for this
15:27	tenplus1	what platform ?
15:27	Krock	windows, with a chance of 80%
15:28	Krock	maybe 100%, if portableapps is limited to windows
15:28	twoelk	https://portableapps.com/apps windows ofcourse :-P
15:28	tenplus1	ohh... isnt Minetest run-in-place portable ?
15:28	tenplus1	all libs in one dir
15:28	Krock	yes
15:28	twoelk	sure it is but this needs a little more and offers an update system
15:29	tenplus1	isnt there a launchpad download available for run-in-place win.linux versions ?
15:29	twoelk	the biggest change for minetest would be to make some hardcoded paths configurable
15:29	Krock	many of them can already be set in the minetest.conf setting
15:31	twoelk	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7709 <- old request and workaround version
15:36	Fixer	twoelk: minetest is already portable, only difference it is availability in portableapps app catalog..
15:37		cx384 joined #minetest-hub
15:37	tenplus1	hi cx384
15:37	cx384	hi
15:41	tenplus1	like I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to have a .gz version of minetest-dev I could unpack to a single folder and simply run from that 1 place with it's own settings without using installed version folders
15:50	tenplus1	that way anyone could download for win/linux to test in place without affecting installed stable
15:51	benrob0329	tenplus1: would probably have to be statically linked
15:51	benrob0329	Otherwise different distros would have deps in deterrent places (potentially)
15:51	benrob0329	*different
15:54	tenplus1	for proper testing it would be required tho
15:57	twoelk	fixer: indeed the name portableapps is missleading, this platform offers quite a few things more than just some portable apps. the most interesting may be the updating system
15:59	twoelk	iirc the minetest paths for games, mods, worlds, cache and others are hardcoded in the win-run-in-place version of mt
16:02	twoelk	https://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format <= the required file format and folder structure
16:05		soupfly joined #minetest-hub
16:23	twoelk	tenplus1: indeed it might be interesting to have the minetest program in one place but for example mods in some other place. Teachers working with pupil groups might find this interesting
16:23	tenplus1	true
16:27	benrob0329	(Offtopic) this looks interesting: https://www.bitchute.com/faq
16:46		soupfly joined #minetest-hub
16:46	tenplus1	Xanadu has been updated with AbriTorch and Real Torch mods active :))))
16:47	shivajiva	:P
16:48	tenplus1	some players complaining but they saw coloured torches and quickly forgot... ahahaha
16:48	shivajiva	ten did you read http://www.gabrielgambetta.com/client-server-game-architecture.html?
16:49	tenplus1	ooh interesting
16:50	shivajiva	if you back out to the homepage there is pathfinder A*
16:53	shivajiva	rubenwardy provided the link :)
16:53	tenplus1	nice
17:00	shivajiva	btw what's the burn time on a torch?
17:00	benrob0329	(Offtopic) https://lbry.io/faq/what-is-lbry looks even more interesting
17:10	IhrFussel	Making an own chest with own callbacks was WAY easier than trying to override the default chest functions ... never again
17:10	tenplus1	ehehehe
17:17		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
17:17	tenplus1	wb Jordach
17:24		CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
17:26	tenplus1	wb caleb
17:28	CalebDavis	thx
17:36	benrob0329	tenplus1: come to find out, Vidme censors criticism
17:36	tenplus1	sigh vid.me does it as well huh... no fair
17:36	benrob0329	There are a few other projects though
17:36	benrob0329	Looking at things like LBRY
17:37	tenplus1	once they get it through there thick skulls that free speech is a good thing and no matter what the video says, ppl will watch it regardless with or without adverts
17:37	tenplus1	brb
17:38	benrob0329	I think the problem is that some things do need to be censored, like Porn and Killing, wierd cult practises that involve strange cutting and all that kind if strangeness
17:43	tenplus1	yeah, but simple speech (not hate speech) isnt that bad... expressing an opinion
17:43	benrob0329	Exactly
17:47	tenplus1	the powers that be are scared to hear the public... hell, google fired one of it's software developers for having an opinion and because of that he landed a job elsewhere :P
17:48	benrob0329	Indeed, I think one of the decentralized solutions has the best chance
17:48	sofar	... bittorrent ...
17:48	benrob0329	Unfortunately its hard to tell where you should put your money
17:48	benrob0329	sofar: bittorrent has issues
17:49	tenplus1	hi sofar
17:49	benrob0329	Big issues
17:49	tenplus1	what issues ben ?
17:49	sofar	isp blockage
17:49	benrob0329	Nothing on it can be,stopped
17:49	sofar	tracking
17:51	tenplus1	if we could get audio, video, news, webpages even on DHT networks and torrents then it cannot be stopped
17:52	benrob0329	tenplus1: https://www.bitchute.com/faq
17:52	benrob0329	Also https://lbry.io/
17:52	benrob0329	Both follow in the footsteps of Torrent, but improve upon it
17:53	tenplus1	sweet... if this gains popularity then anything on the web will be far spread from removing it
17:53	Calinou	one of the problems I have with BitTorrent are file changes/updates not being possible
17:53	Calinou	this isn't great for distributing things that change often (eg. software)
17:53	benrob0329	Calinou: that is something LBRY looks t change
17:54	Shara	Hello
17:54	tenplus1	unchanging torrents means you release packs... e.g.. news_9th_aug_2017.zip
17:54	tenplus1	release packs adn that way they all exist in some form or fashion and are archives
17:54	tenplus1	hi Shara
17:54	Shara	Hi Ten :P
17:54	benrob0329	But the same problem exists, infringement and Porn
17:54	tenplus1	AbriGlass and Real Torch (0.7 update) is live on Xanadu :
17:55	Calinou	>porn >problem
17:55	* Calinou	raises eyebrow
17:55	Calinou	not trying to start a debate here, but this is the Internet, you know
17:55	benrob0329	Calinou: if nothing else, children and teens don't need to see it
17:55	Calinou	that's true â€“ a good filtering system is important to have
17:55	Calinou	but this is not really a problem in the protocol itself
17:55	benrob0329	And Child Porn is a huge problem
17:55	benrob0329	As is Extreme Violence and Gore
17:56	tenplus1	that would be a problem but anyone who owns that sort of porn will be prosecuted
17:56	benrob0329	tenplus1: but it needs to be able to be removed
17:56	tenplus1	as it stands nothing can truly be removed from the internet already
17:57	benrob0329	But from a platform, a website?
17:57	benrob0329	The search feed?
17:59	tenplus1	with that sort of things we kinda rely on the morals of the induvidual... if they are sick in the head and are actively looking for THAT kind of thing they'll find it wherever
17:59	tenplus1	but normal folk wont be searching or downloading that kind of stuff
18:00	benrob0329	Again though, its still therex and it could still show up
18:01	tenplus1	if posted and shared through torrent/DHT... but I have a feeling ppl who are into that kinda stuff share through other means
18:03	benrob0329	This is true, but again, I don't want to use a platform that isnt safe for children (everything I make is sfw, aside from a horror game I played)
18:03	benrob0329	And I don't mean swearing, that is fine imo
18:03	tenplus1	if torrents become the norm for most downloads, archiving, news etc there will be filters available for the sites tha tuse them so child locks for us to set
18:04	benrob0329	Also true
18:04	benrob0329	And I suppose that is the thing isnt it, the most we can do is create safe searches and tags on systems like this
18:06	tenplus1	most torrent search sites haev an adult section for out of the norm things so if you search for say "Mulan" you'll get the cartoon movie instead of parody porn vids
18:12		tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
18:13	tenplus1	hi tumeni
18:13	tumeninodes	gggrrrrr you beat me to it haha I was typing hi too you dang it
18:13	tumeninodes	hi tenplus1, hi benrob I just reg'ed with bitchute, looks cool
18:14	tenplus1	:P
18:15	benrob0329	tumeninodes: can you post videos?
18:15	benrob0329	or is it still closed to normal users?
18:15	tumeninodes	anyone know if any tweaks to engine could block a placed light source from bleeding through nodes?
18:15	tumeninodes	oh, idk, did not try posting a vid yet
18:16	tenplus1	yeah I noticed that tumeninodes, torch light somehow goes through solid walls for some reason
18:17	tumeninodes	something like omits light = true would be nice
18:18	tumeninodes	benrob, to start a channel you have to verify email address, but I have not gotten a ver email yet
18:19	tumeninodes	tenplus1, I "think" MC has the same issue as well? not completely sure though
18:22		ssieb joined #minetest-hub
18:22	tenplus1	hi ssieb
18:25	ssieb	hi
18:28	tumeninodes	benrob0329, my test video is still... "processing" :P
18:28	tenplus1	heh
18:29	tumeninodes	meanwhile, back in the light source bleeding lab...
18:29	tumeninodes	tenplus1, what's up with your tnt PRs? anyword?
18:30	tenplus1	still waiting for something to happen, they work, they improve game
18:31	garywhite	hi
18:32	tenplus1	hi gary
18:32	CalebDavis	hi gary
18:33		behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:33	tenplus1	wb behalebabo
18:33	* tumeninodes	hates "waiting"
18:37	Calinou	you wouldn't like Godot thenâ€¦ :)
18:37	Calinou	(Waiting for Godot)
18:37	tenplus1	what's happening with godot today ?
18:37	red-001	their waiting
18:38	lisac	Calinou, 3.0 seems to lack some collision documentation
18:40	rubenwardy	watch out: don't resize the lovely looking corners of collision boxes
18:40	tumeninodes	long waiting lines with Godot? Now serving, number 12 (looks at ticket, says 120,733) : (
18:41	Calinou	lisac: Bullet physics might replace the custom physics engine in 3D
18:41	Calinou	(but not in 2D)
18:41	Calinou	there would be a lot of changes in 3D physics then
18:42	tumeninodes	omg... 20 min and I am still ... "processing"
18:44	tumeninodes	Calinou, do placed light sources bleed through walls/nodes with Godot?
18:44	Calinou	if you enable shadows, then no :P
18:44	Calinou	if you disable them, then yes :P
18:45	tenplus1	I wonder why the bleed happens... you'd thing as soon as it hits a wall it would create a straight line of shadow
18:45	tumeninodes	hmmm..., where's KaadmY?
18:46	tumeninodes	the thing is, sunlight does not penetrate through so why do placed light sources?
18:46	Calinou	tumeninodes: tip: to see when someone last talked on IRC (in any channel or private message), use /whois <nick> <nick> (yes, twice)
18:46	Calinou	(or /wii <nick> in some clients)
18:46	Calinou	it's called the "idle time"
18:46	Calinou	tumeninodes: you can enable shadows with OmniLights as well
18:46	Calinou	(an omni light being a fancy term for a "point light")
18:48	tumeninodes	we need these things :P
18:49	benrob0329	#MakeMinetestaGodotModule
18:49	tumeninodes	? sorry, I'm still not proficient with irc
18:51		behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:51	Calinou	tumeninodes: try /whois Calinou Calinou or /wii Calinou
18:51	Calinou	you should see, in addition to the usual Whois information, an idle time
18:51	Calinou	(you may need to switch to your server tab to see it)
18:52	Calinou	note: it's rate-limited (in a global manner), if it tells you it was rate-limited, just try it again
18:53	tumeninodes	I thought it was something like seen Kaadmy?
18:53	twoelk	hometown-server seems to crash a lot today :-(
18:54	tumeninodes	thank you though Calinou :)
18:55	tumeninodes	yep /wii works with server. gotta head to an appt bbl
18:55		tumeninodes left #minetest-hub
18:55	tenplus1	/switch
19:01	rdococ	everyone forgot about /wiiu pretty quickly, huh
19:02	Calinou	:D
19:02	tenplus1	;P
19:02	rdococ	I still have an original (not XL nor new, nor new XL) /3ds
19:03	tenplus1	the new 2DS XL is out... looks good
19:03	rdococ	anyway, if I leave the nodenames blank in an ABM, does it affect every node with the appropriate neighbors, or no node?
19:03	tenplus1	no node
19:03	rdococ	hm.
19:03	tenplus1	you need to be specific with node names or groups... e.g. default:sand group:stone
19:04	rdococ	I guess I could invert it and perform the code from the neighboring nodes I want it to
19:04	tenplus1	what you wanting it to do ?
19:05	rdococ	I'm brainstorming ideas for an awesome nuke asplosion thing, and I plan on making it expand slowly to avoid lag - perhaps using an air-like explosion node similar to WE's worldedit:placeholder.
19:05	tenplus1	oof, go light on the placeholders, those will activate areas and lag
19:06	rdococ	it would also help make the explosion look irregular, which helps.
19:09	tenplus1	voxelmanip will be working overtime to do that one :p
19:09		lisac joined #minetest-hub
19:09	tenplus1	hi lisac
19:09	tenplus1	or should I say wb :P
19:10	lisac	Hi twelveminus1
19:10	lisac	:P
19:19	rdococ	minetest crashed twice
19:25	Krock	for i=1,2 do minetest.crash() end
19:25	Krock	but it only crashes servers once
19:26	tenplus1	lol
19:28	rdococ	sometimes I feel the urge to create a programming language. then I get bored.
19:29	tenplus1	would be nice if it were something so simple that allowed you to do anything
19:30	rdococ	you mean like most low-level programming languages?
19:30	rdococ	(simple as in not very abstract, not as in easy for a human to grasp ofc :P)
19:31	tenplus1	basic, lua, python is nice n easy
19:31	tenplus1	and pypy does kinda run faster than native
19:32	rdococ	lua is pretty cool, I guess...
19:32	rdococ	I was working on a simple syntax for my idea, actually.
19:33	tenplus1	ooh, do tell
19:33	rdococ	my scriptblocks thing is pretty cool, but eh
19:33		twoelk left #minetest-hub
19:33	rdococ	well, the idea is that the syntax would be compact.
19:35	rdococ	inc=(x){^x+1}; # defines a function that takes an argument and adds one to it, in 14 characters (spaces can be included, but are optional).
19:35	rdococ	well, technically it would create an anonymous function that does the above, and then assign it to the variable "inc".
19:36	tenplus1	hrm
19:36	rdococ	there would also be blocks - which are like functions, but are much simpler. no parameters, no local scope, and if you return from a block it returns from the block's parent function too.
19:36		nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
19:36	tenplus1	hi nrz
19:36	rdococ	I might take this document and put it in a github gist so you can see.
19:36	rdococ	s/this document/my notes/
19:37	nerzhul	hi tenplus1
19:38	rdococ	here, https://gist.github.com/rdococ/4be701fc41ffbcc5b81b4fdeb179bbca
19:39	tenplus1	is this possible by making functions to use ?
19:40	rdococ	whadya mean?
19:40	rubenwardy	may I suggest inc=x=>x+1
19:40	rdococ	rubenwardy: That's an interesting idea, but eh.
19:40	rubenwardy	It's closer to other languages'
19:40	rubenwardy	and less characters
19:41	rdococ	inc=xâ†’x+1
19:41	rubenwardy	and add=a,b=>a+b
19:41	rubenwardy	yeah, that's good too
19:41	rubenwardy	could do both
19:42	rdococ	fac=aâ†’a==1?1:a*fac(a-1)
19:42	rdococ	or fac=aâ†’a==0?1:a*fac(a-1) #, rather, so fac(0) doesn't crash.
19:43	rubenwardy	I'm guessing currying of lambdas would be a bit too complicated :D
19:43	rubenwardy	to implement
19:43	rdococ	not that complicated...
19:44	rdococ	but if I'm going /that/ route, then my whole concept of blocks (which were stolen from smalltalk, but meh) would go out the window...
19:44	rdococ	meh, it looks cool so I'm gonna try it.
19:49	rdococ	if you've heard of the Elvis operator, it's equivalent to a,bâ†’a?a:b. I had the idea of a reverse Elvis operator (a,bâ†’a?b:a).
19:50		ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
19:51	rdococ	refresh the link I gave above
19:51	tenplus1	wb thomas
19:51	rdococ	hi
19:52	ThomasMonroe	thanks
19:52	CalebDavis	ten i am registering 2 biomes but only 1 is getting put in the world
19:53	tenplus1	are you merging with default biomes or freshly cleared world of everything ?
19:53	CalebDavis	cleared
19:53	ThomasMonroe	same here
19:53		bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
19:53	CalebDavis	minetest.register_biome({
19:53	CalebDavis	name = "iceland",
19:53	CalebDavis	--node_dust = "",
19:53	CalebDavis	node_top = "default:ice",
19:53	CalebDavis	depth_top = 1,
19:53	CalebDavis	node_stone = "default:permafrost",
19:53	CalebDavis	node_water_top = "air",
19:53	CalebDavis	depth_water_top = 1,
19:54	CalebDavis	node_water = "air",
19:54	CalebDavis	node_river_water = "air",
19:54	CalebDavis	node_riverbed = "default:sand",
19:54	CalebDavis	depth_riverbed = 2,
19:54	CalebDavis	y_min = 1,
19:54	CalebDavis	y_max = 31000,
19:54	CalebDavis	heat_point = 45,
19:54	CalebDavis	humidity_point = 70,
19:54	Fixer	okay
19:54	CalebDavis	})
19:54	CalebDavis	minetest.register_biome({
19:54	rdococ	CalebDavis: I have one word for people like you.
19:54	CalebDavis	name = "icecrystal_forest",
19:54	CalebDavis	--node_dust = "",
19:54	rdococ	USE. A. PASTEBIN!!!!!!!!
19:54	CalebDavis	node_top = "default:ice",
19:54	Fixer	CalebDavis: pastebin
19:54	CalebDavis	depth_top = 1,
19:54	tenplus1	lolol
19:54	CalebDavis	node_stone = "default:permafrost",
19:54	bigfoot547	oh god
19:54	CalebDavis	node_water_top = "air",
19:54	CalebDavis	depth_water_top = 1,
19:54	rdococ	okay, that was three words
19:54	CalebDavis	node_water = "air",
19:54	bigfoot547	what did I walk into
19:54	rdococ	BUT IT STILL COUNTS!!!
19:54	Fixer	DIAL UP
19:54	CalebDavis	node_river_water = "air",
19:54	CalebDavis	node_riverbed = "default:sand",
19:54	tenplus1	hibigfoot
19:54	CalebDavis	depth_riverbed = 2,
19:54	CalebDavis	y_min = 1,
19:54	bigfoot547	Hey tenplus1
19:54	* rdococ	hides
19:54	CalebDavis	y_max = 31000,
19:54	Fixer	19200
19:54	CalebDavis	heat_point = 86,
19:54	CalebDavis	humidity_point = 65,
19:54	bigfoot547	Kick him
19:54	CalebDavis	})
19:54	CalebDavis	that is the biome registration
19:55	rdococ	/kick CalebDavis spam
19:55	CalebDavis	i usualy do but i forgot this time
19:55	bigfoot547	Like we could read it
19:55	rdococ	you forgot this time?
19:55	benrob0329	CalebDavis: Use a pastebin. Period.
19:55	rdococ	I didn't even know "Kick him" was part of the biome definition...
19:55	CalebDavis	yea i just didnt think about using it this time sry
19:56	tenplus1	they seem ok caleb, just a matter of finding the biomes in question
19:56	rdococ	default:permafrost?
19:56	CalebDavis	a custom node
19:56	tenplus1	iceland will appear more because it's closer to the 50heat 50 humidity point, the other will be rarer
19:56	rdococ	wtf? a custom node shouldn't be in default
19:56	CalebDavis	i am making a subgame
19:56	rdococ	ohh.
19:57	CalebDavis	new default
19:57	bigfoot547	Yeah or "hi bigfoot"
19:57	rdococ	I might try making a subgame. eventually.
19:58	CalebDavis	i also have a decoration that is suposed to spawn in the ice crystal forest but it is spawning everywhere
19:58	rdococ	heh
19:58	rdococ	maybe everywhere is the ice crystal forest? :P
19:58	CalebDavis	:P but i tested and everywhere is the iceland
19:59	rdococ	...wait, what?
19:59	ThomasMonroe	did you change the name of the biome?
19:59	* rdococ	's mind explodes
19:59	CalebDavis	i might have made a typo
20:00	ThomasMonroe	ive already got 3 biomes and 1 decoration(not going to use it, just for testing)
20:01		RobbieF left #minetest-hub
20:01	tenplus1	nite folks
20:01		tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:01	ThomasMonroe	:O its only 15:01 here
20:03	* Shara	steals ThomasMonroe's timezone to have more hours left of the day then
20:04	ThomasMonroe	NOOOOOOOOOO
20:04	rdococ	heh
20:04	Raven262	Who even needs day?
20:05	Raven262	Night time has the most of fun.
20:05	ThomasMonroe	i still want to eat dinner
20:05	Shara	I'm kind of indifferent to whether it's day or night... just the total number of hours I get :P
20:06	Raven262	It is only in the night time when you can see the moon and the stars.
20:06	Raven262	If that even matters to people anymore.
20:07	ThomasMonroe	its sure does(well to me at least)
20:07	Shara	Why wouldn't it matter?
20:07	Raven262	Well, you said that it is the same for you.
20:07	Raven262	Sun is much less fun.
20:08	Shara	I like both. Doesn't mean one doesn't matter.
20:08	ThomasMonroe	espeially if you forget sunblock XD
20:08	Raven262	Nice.
20:08	Raven262	The big glowing thing burning my eyes.
20:08	ThomasMonroe	especially*
20:09	* rdococ	needs ideas for biomes
20:10	ThomasMonroe	LAVA!!!!!!!!
20:10	rdococ	VOLCANO!
20:10	Raven262	MUSHROOMS!
20:10	* Shara	wants more biomes
20:10	ThomasMonroe	MICE!!!!
20:10	ThomasMonroe	er, i meant, uhhh
20:10	Raven262	Void biome?
20:10	ThomasMonroe	RATS!!!!!
20:10	Raven262	That would be odd
20:10	rdococ	...wait, rat biome?
20:10	ThomasMonroe	obsidian glass biome
20:10	Shara	Surface or underground biomes?
20:11	ThomasMonroe	ive actually tried the glass
20:11	Raven262	Underground biomes sure are missing in the game
20:11	ThomasMonroe	i got 2 fps with connected glass
20:11	rdococ	are biomes even 3D?
20:11	ThomasMonroe	definitealy
20:11	Raven262	Obsidian with lava lakes makes a nice biome
20:11	Shara	Raven262: just use CRL for underground ones :)
20:12	Raven262	Yea
20:12	Shara	It's light enough that even Xanadu added it :P
20:12	ThomasMonroe	CRL?
20:12	Raven262	It is using that voxel manipulation to make stuff, i can't learn a thing from it
20:12	Shara	caverealms lite
20:13	ThomasMonroe	ah
20:13	Raven262	i myself have been trying to make certain tunnels and caves generated, but i found no way to do so
20:13	Calinou	hir Raven262!
20:13	Calinou	hi*
20:13	Shara	Old caverealms rewritten to use the map's natural caves instead of creating it's own
20:13	Raven262	Hi Calinou!
20:13	Shara	Makes i tmuch faster and prevents crazy lava spills
20:13	Shara	it*
20:13	Raven262	Ah, we are not talking about ordinary caverealms?
20:14	Raven262	Well
20:14	Raven262	I'll check that one out
20:14	Shara	https://github.com/Zeno-/caverealms_lite
20:14	Raven262	it might solve my problem
20:14	rdococ	o-o
20:14	calcul0n	ho, i love crazy lava spills :)
20:14	Shara	I need to do more work on it, but it's already working well on two busy servers
20:16	Raven262	Is there any "simple" way to generate a cave system?
20:16	Raven262	Without those biome checks and stuff
20:17	Raven262	and with fixed height limits
20:17	* rdococ	tries to find the volcano biome he created... and he teleports to a silver desert.
20:17	Shara	No idea.
20:17	rdococ	really it's a dessert biome. :P
20:17	Shara	Raven262: Using the maps natural caves just seems to work better
20:17	Raven262	i don't need that type of caves
20:18	Raven262	But i also doubt that i could specify the caves which i would like
20:18	rdococ	What temperature even is a silver desert? I can't tell whether to feel hot or cold.
20:18	Shara	What would you be aiming for?
20:18	Shara	rdococ: I guess cold
20:18	* rdococ	wonders what temperature is in its definition
20:19	ThomasMonroe	the amount of energy in a single atom is its "temp"
20:19	Raven262	Tunnels, long tunnels ending in rooms, also tunnels should be long and stretched in one plane, but their height should not vary much.
20:20	Raven262	Basically, a "web" made out of tunnels with occasional caverns in it.
20:20	rdococ	I've ran into 0 volcano biomes and 2 silver deserts.
20:21		sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
20:22	ThomasMonroe	XD
20:22	ThomasMonroe	im making a LandOfFire subgame
20:23		lisac joined #minetest-hub
20:24	Raven262	Hi lisac
20:24	CalebDavis	well i gtg c yall later
20:24	lisac	um... hi.
20:24	lisac	Bye CalebDavis
20:25	rdococ	I set the volcano biome's temperature property to 50 temporarily, see if I could get it to spawn more.
20:25	rdococ	It worked.
20:26	rdococ	It's glorious, if a bit oddly contrasting since it's near a grassland.
20:26	rdococ	Huh, fires.
20:27		lisac joined #minetest-hub
20:28	Raven262	wb lisac
20:28	ThomasMonroe	wb lisac
20:29	lisac	I'm going to be gone and back quite a few times lol
20:29	lisac	but thanks
20:33	rdococ	huh. I might have to create river lava for this.
20:34	ThomasMonroe	XD
20:35		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
20:35		Megaf joined #minetest-hub
20:36	Megaf	$ uname -a
20:36	Megaf	Linux magnesium 4.12.5-Megaf #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Aug 9 20:42:38 IST 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
20:36	Megaf	wheres tenplus1?
20:37	Raven262	He left a few minutes ago, Megaf.
20:42	Megaf	the fuck?
20:42	Megaf	I just got the latest MT from git
20:43	Megaf	now I join my server and Im like 3 or 4 meters tall
20:43	Megaf	what the heck have you done to MT?
20:43	Megaf	I mean, its like, as if the camera is above the players head
20:44	Raven262	lisac had the same thing on his latest client
20:44	Megaf	and I cant go up stairs anymore
20:44	Raven262	I didn't update though
20:44	calcul0n	it's an incompatibility, dev clients do that with older servers
20:44	Megaf	stupid MT devs
20:45	lisac	<Megaf> stupid MT devs
20:45	Krock	stupid server owners who can't just use stable versions
20:45	calcul0n	no, stupid users who don't know what dev branch means :)
20:45	lisac	I'm keeping this
20:45	rdococ	:P
20:45	rubenwardy	Megaf, 0.5.0
20:45	rubenwardy	although tbh I'm not very familar with the change
20:45	rubenwardy	not sure why it couldn't be backwards compatible
20:45	Megaf	also Minetest is slower than ever before now
20:45	rdococ	0.5.0?
20:45	Megaf	congrats
20:46	lisac	<Megaf> stupid MT devs
20:46	Krock	re-compile from scratch?
20:46	Megaf	it says 0.4.16
20:46	Krock	how about MTG?
20:46	Megaf	lisac, you dont know me, I been in MT for nearly 5 years
20:46	Megaf	6 maybe
20:46	Megaf	our devs are stupid
20:46	lisac	umm
20:46	lisac	<Megaf> stupid MT devs
20:47	lisac	:P
20:47	Megaf	and so I am
20:47	Megaf	I mean
20:47	Megaf	so am I
20:47	Megaf	see?
20:47	rdococ	definitely
20:47	lisac	I can see that
20:47	lisac	I'm just not sure about the devs
20:47	Raven262	So they were like this all the time?
20:47	* Krock	gives lisac a PostIt (C)(R)(TM) to stick it right to his monitor
20:47	* lisac	binds <Megaf> stupid MT devs
20:47	Megaf	Raven262, yep, stupid since ever
20:47	Megaf	its not new
20:47	lisac	I've got some more stuff already binded
20:47	* rdococ	binds a chicken somehow
20:48	Krock	rdococ, how will you make it stick on your monitor? besides that - it's crazy
20:48	Megaf	so they break everything, make it slower than ever, and the same stupid 6 years old bug still present
20:48	Megaf	well done
20:48	Megaf	s/bug/bugs
20:49	lisac	Megaf, exactly. They should be working for that money they earn. Oh wait.
20:49	rubenwardy	it's not broken
20:49	rubenwardy	it's just not backwards compatible
20:49	Krock	"performance regression" as 6 year old bug?
20:49	Megaf	lisac, the do actually earn money
20:49	Megaf	well, c55 does
20:50	Raven262	For minetest?
20:50	Raven262	How exactly?
20:50	Krock	I bet he spends more on keeping the servers online
20:50	ThomasMonroe	to my knowledge i think they are trying to get everything off of Irrlicht
20:50	rubenwardy	celeron55 has said that the donations don't cover the maintenance cost
20:50	Krock	Raven262, there's a donation button on the website IIRC
20:50	rubenwardy	there's also paramat's donations page
20:50	lisac	Krock, there is a donation button on the random android app I've got. Yet, they didn't earn any money off me
20:51	Raven262	I doubt he gets much money from it, it is really unreliable.
20:51	Raven262	As any donation.
20:51	ThomasMonroe	probably more supplemental than anything else
20:52	lisac	maybe we could just ask him to publish yearly 'Donation got:' 'Server maintenance cost:'
20:52	Shara	lisac: if it's a random android app, I doubt it's donating to the actual MT team.
20:52	Shara	More likely whoever is cashing in by releasing random apps
20:52	lisac	Shara, I'm talking about Donation buttons in general
20:52	Shara	Those are the people who make money
20:53	Raven262	Or better
20:53	Raven262	Stealing the money under MT devs noses
20:53	Shara	Well, I just love it when players told me they paid so they could use the fly priv I grant them
20:53	lisac	Shara, WHAT?
20:53	Shara	This is news to you really?
20:53	lisac	You aren't telling me some apps sell privs?
20:54	Shara	There are android apps that block some proivs unless the player pays.
20:54	ThomasMonroe	yep
20:54	Shara	privs*
20:54	* lisac	is off to make a fortune
20:54	lisac	Fly: 25$ a month
20:54	lisac	Fast: 10$ a month
20:54	ThomasMonroe	XD
20:54	Shara	Heh
20:54	lisac	I'll be rich soon
20:54	Raven262	But isn't that client side? They would fly even if you didn't grant them the priv.
20:54	Krock	Fly&Noclip: 99$ / month
20:54	lisac	not with anticheat, Raven262
20:54	ThomasMonroe	Fly: .01$ a second
20:54	Raven262	Ah yes
20:54	Raven262	Per node
20:54	Shara	Since I grant fly by default, I have no way to check
20:54	Raven262	Not per second
20:55	Raven262	Oh no, poor players >:)
20:55	ThomasMonroe	why not?
20:55	ThomasMonroe	.6$ a minute
20:55	ThomasMonroe	3.60$ an hour per player
20:56	ThomasMonroe	lets say each hour there are at least 5 players
20:56	Raven262	Yea, but when they float they would still lose money that way... wait
20:56	Calinou	that's how much I was paid at my internship
20:56	Calinou	(â‚¬3.60/hour)
20:56	Calinou	:P
20:56	ThomasMonroe	18$ an hour,
20:56	Krock	that'd be nice VPS specs for this price
20:56	Raven262	Calinou, you too off to make some minetest clones? xD
20:56	lisac	Calinou, minimum pay in Serbia is <1â‚¬
20:56	Raven262	To refund those loses
20:56	lisac	which would make yours 3x the minimal pay
20:56	Shara	Krock: if only it was going to the server owner :P
20:56	ThomasMonroe	not bad for a clone app
20:57	Raven262	But you also have to make sure people actually play it
20:57	Raven262	Which is where you need to steal someone else's code and integrate it
20:57	lisac	Raven262, simple. Make ton of popup ads. Players like those
20:57	Raven262	And
20:57	ThomasMonroe	oh yeah they just looooove those XD
20:57	Raven262	If you are doing it illegal, at least do it right
20:58	Calinou	what about making clickbait videos?
20:58	Raven262	Steal a bunch of features
20:58	Calinou	"I BUILT a FIDGET SPINNER in MINETEST!"
20:58	lisac	ThomasMonroe, well OFC they do. Why else would they play illegal copies instead of official MT?
20:58	Calinou	"Try not to laugh in front of this player!"
20:58	Krock	"Get Minecraft for free!"
20:58	lisac	REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
20:58	Raven262	Those too
20:58	Shara	On a more cheerful note... sometimes I love finding things my players built: http://i.imgur.com/QEqv7gs.png
20:58	Calinou	looks nice :)
20:58	Krock	amazing
20:58	Shara	Can't wait to walk through there when that's finished.
20:58	Raven262	So artistic much wow
20:59	lisac	Shara, I half expected a fidget spinner
20:59	Shara	Hah :D
20:59	* lisac	is mildly disapointed
21:00	Shara	Fairly new player as well. Must not let other servers steal this one >.>
21:00	* lisac	starts building it on Craigs
21:00	lisac	too late, comrade!
21:00	lisac	this building is seized
21:00	Shara	The player :P
21:01	lisac	aaah
21:01	Shara	You can't steal the player!
21:01	lisac	what's his name?
21:01	lisac	ofc I can. I just need enough cookies
21:01	lisac	everyone likes those. And cheese
21:01	Shara	But I have all the cookies.
21:01	Shara	And the doughnuts!
21:01	Raven262	Cheeeese!
21:01	lisac	It's treason then.
21:01	Raven262	No, really cheese.
21:01	lisac	oh.
21:01	lisac	I see
21:01	lisac	... through the Jedi lies!
21:02	Shara	Which kind of cheese..?
21:02	ThomasMonroe	gouda
21:02	* rdococ	considers how to add rain
21:02	Shara	Hmmm
21:02	rdococ	maybe spawn particles at the player?
21:02	Raven262	laggggg
21:02	Shara	ThomasMonroe: You can do better.
21:02	Shara	rdococ: There's quite a few weather mods around
21:03	* ThomasMonroe	wants some ideas for biomes in a land dominated by fire and lava
21:03	rdococ	Shara: I know, but since I'm dumb I wanted to make a bad one of my own
21:03	lisac	Cheese for everyone!
21:03	lisac	No, screw that. Cheese for none.
21:03	lisac	We can have as much fun without cheese, can't we?
21:03	rdococ	weird person detected
21:03	Shara	ThomasMonroe: Something metal/rust themed?
21:03	ThomasMonroe	Parmigiano Reggiano
21:03	ThomasMonroe	hows that Shara?
21:04	Shara	Have seen such biomes in other games, and often looks nice.
21:04	Raven262	Lisac, I'm so happy to see you i could tear out your intestines and strangle you with them!
21:04	ThomasMonroe	im thinking about using hotcobble from caverealms(textures only)
21:04	lisac	https://youtu.be/jq9TnI7ssTU?t=27s
21:05	Raven262	ThomasMonroe, default cobble + colorize to red + overlay so it colorizes only the darker parts
21:05	Raven262	Wait
21:05	Raven262	i think i did something like that already
21:05	Raven262	well it saves you the trouble of adding a new texture
21:05	Shara	A good biome needs more than just nodes with different textures
21:05	ThomasMonroe	yes ik Shara
21:06	ThomasMonroe	too bad i cant have a random mix of nodes for topnodes XD
21:06	Raven262	You need burned trees from which you get coal lumps, of course
21:06	Raven262	you also need obsidian
21:06	Raven262	a lot of obsidian
21:06	ThomasMonroe	already got that
21:06	Raven262	and the red sky
21:06	ThomasMonroe	that was the first biom i created
21:06	ThomasMonroe	biome*
21:06	Raven262	also, the stone should preferably be red somewhere
21:07	Raven262	at least in one biome
21:07	Shara	Ethereal already has burned trees and things.
21:07	ThomasMonroe	how do i colorize the cobble red?
21:07	Raven262	http://dev.minetest.net/texture
21:07	Raven262	that should cover it
21:08	Raven262	Also, you can make some vegetation
21:08	Shara	ThomasMonroe: An example: https://github.com/Ezhh/abriglass/blob/master/nodes.lua#L18
21:08	Raven262	red bushes for example
21:08	Shara	Just replace colour there with whatever
21:08	ThomasMonroe	so it "sometexture.png^colorize:#ffffff"?
21:08	Shara	Yup
21:08	ThomasMonroe	kk thanks
21:08	Raven262	^[colorize:#
21:08	Raven262	i believe
21:09	Shara	But keep in mind, if you start with a dark texture, it might not work too well
21:09	Raven262	or with a light one either
21:09	Shara	Light ones can work
21:09	* Raven262	means white
21:09	Raven262	well, lots of white
21:09	Raven262	like chalk
21:09	Shara	My glass uses a pale shade of grey and ends up with quite bright colours
21:10	Raven262	not like clay i mean
21:10	Raven262	it is too dark
21:10	Raven262	well, guess it is not that bright
21:10	Raven262	you can always add a layer above that is colorized and the applied over the texture
21:11	Shara	Well, using pale grey as the base image and the code in that link, I got these: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Ezhh/abriglass/master/screenshot.png
21:11	Raven262	They look very nice
21:12	ThomasMonroe	yes they are quite good
21:12	Shara	Most other coloured glass I saw on servers is... weirdly cloudy looking
21:12	Raven262	Cause people use the, well cloud thingy in gimp and then colorize it
21:12	Raven262	Or something similar
21:13	Raven262	but they don't know that it messes up the shading afterwards
21:13	Raven262	on buildings i mean
21:13	ThomasMonroe	hehe yep
21:13	Shara	Was looking at the cblocks glass on Xanadu earlier... the red still looks more like pink to me.
21:14	Shara	I think that's what bugs me.. I want distinct looking colours, not washed out looking ones
21:14	Raven262	if you use the red hex code (#ff0000) you'll usually get something pink-like on translucent surface
21:15	Shara	Yet I manage to avoid it there
21:15	Raven262	and when you use the gray color as the base (the one you colorize) you will always end up with undersaturated texture
21:15	ThomasMonroe	meh, if you do it right it comes out nicely
21:15	Raven262	though you can try to colorize with #ff0000100 to get it a bit better
21:15	ThomasMonroe	but i think i'll use the caverealms texture
21:16	Shara	ThomasMonroe: You just want red cobble?
21:16	ThomasMonroe	no, not entirely
21:16	Shara	This any use? https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Ezhh/other_worlds/master/textures/asteroid_redcobble.png
21:17	rdococ	yay for image editors!
21:17	ThomasMonroe	it looks like it should be on something like mars
21:17	ThomasMonroe	not a super hot planet
21:17	Shara	Well, it's from the red sky region :P
21:17	ThomasMonroe	XD
21:17	Shara	But a slight adjustment to the colour and it could easily look hot, since it's in the right colour range already
21:18	Raven262	Hmm i think i could make your texture in one line of code, using just the default cobble one
21:18	Raven262	this might be a bit hacky though
21:18	ThomasMonroe	tiles = {"default_cobble.png^[colorize:#aa000020"},
21:18	* Raven262	will be testing this idea for a while
21:18	Raven262	No, thats too simple
21:18	ThomasMonroe	i tried playing around, but its not working the way i want it to
21:19	rdococ	does MT use lua 5.2.0?
21:19	rdococ	or, 5.2.x
21:19	rdococ	I ask because it has a new goto feature I'm thinking of using
21:19	Krock	it uses what's installed on the builder's machine
21:20	Krock	like LuaJIT, if enabled
21:20	rdococ	well, I recently installed lua 5.2...
21:20	Krock	(which would be Lua 5.1)
21:20	rdococ	does mesecons use setfenv?
21:20	rdococ	(as in, the luacontroller). I heard it was replaced with something else in 5.2.
21:21	Krock	dunno. google and duckduckgo will know the answer
21:30	nerzhul	5.1.5
21:31	rdococ	do similar seeds make for similar perlin noise maps, or...?
21:32	Raven262	ThomasMonroe, "((default_cobble.png^[colorize:#80000050)^(((default_cobble.png^[makealpha:69,66,64)^[makealpha:75,72,69)^[makealpha:72,68,66))^[colorize:#80000020"
21:32	Raven262	try it! xD
21:32	Raven262	or remove the last colorization if you prefer it
21:33	Raven262	Oh, i could make it animated
21:33	Raven262	lol
21:33	Raven262	no, no way i'm doing that
21:33	Raven262	too complicated
21:34	ThomasMonroe	not bad, but still not what im going for
21:34	Raven262	tell me how you want it? I like to experiment :P
21:34	Raven262	maybe without the last colorization?
21:34	ThomasMonroe	similar to caverealms hot cobble
21:34	* Raven262	checks out that cobble
21:36	Raven262	Ahhh got it
21:40	Megaf	now,
21:41	Megaf	back to compatibility
21:41	Megaf	are new servers compatible with old clients?
21:45	rdococ	huh. turns out that computing a 1x1 perlin noise map every step and adding 10 particles every step isn't that laggy.
21:45	rdococ	of course, 20 particles was a little laggy, so good luck if it's on a server with >2 people.
21:46	rdococ	then again, the server doesn't have to render each particle.
21:51		lisac joined #minetest-hub
21:54		ssieb joined #minetest-hub
21:57	Fixer	lol
21:57	Fixer	20 particles
21:57	Fixer	mc, 600-700 particles, still good fps
21:57	Fixer	beta 1.7.3 cough
21:59	bigfoot547	Fixer: Try Beta 1.6 test build 3
22:00		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:01	Raven262	ThomasMonroe, "(default_cobble.png^[colorize:#800000:255)^(((default_cobble.png^[makealpha:69,66,64)^[colorize:#804000:192)^((((default_cobble.png^[makealpha:75,72,69)^[makealpha:69,66,64)^[colorize:#700000:192)^((((default_cobble.png^[makealpha:69,66,64)^[makealpha:75,72,69)^[makealpha:72,68,66)^[colorize:#000000:128)))"
22:01	Raven262	enjoy
22:01	Raven262	I did my best
22:02		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:02	Raven262	result: http://i.imgur.com/SFxRzWg.png
22:03	Raven262	Well, i think that chunk of code has smaller size than the texture, really.
22:03	ThomasMonroe	hehe
22:03	Raven262	Its a space-saver i assure you
22:03	Raven262	xD
22:05		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:05	ThomasMonroe	looks nice, but doesnt seem to fit
22:06	Raven262	Ahhh
22:06	Raven262	Well, could i make it even better?
22:06	* Raven262	wonders.
22:07	ThomasMonroe	http://imgur.com/cq46XVQ
22:07		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:08		Fixer joined #minetest-hub
22:08	Raven262	You need more red to that sand
22:08	Raven262	It really makes other texture out of place
22:08	ThomasMonroe	ik im working on it
22:09	ThomasMonroe	im getting another screenshot for you
22:09	ThomasMonroe	http://imgur.com/jv7EJpX
22:10		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:10	ThomasMonroe	hey lisac
22:10	Raven262	Thats the caverealms cobble there
22:10	Raven262	Hey don't think i didn't see both of them side by side already
22:10	Raven262	check out my screenshot, i have on of them in my inv
22:11		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:11	* lisac	> dbus.Array([dbus.String('Opeth')], signature=dbus.Signature('s'), variant_level=1) - Bleak - [ Blackwater Park ] - [ 54777:09:32 / 00:00 ]
22:11	lisac	Would you look at that
22:11	lisac	that is all the progress I've got so far
22:11	lisac	clementine changed their dbus api
22:11	lisac	I'm rewriting this script
22:12	* lisac	> dbus.Array([dbus.String('Opeth')], signature=dbus.Signature('s'), variant_level=1) - Bleak - [ Blackwater Park ] - [ 71959:43:52 / 00:00 ]
22:13		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:13	lisac	and the whole fucking thing crashes every time I try to reload the plugin
22:13	* lisac	> dbus.Array([dbus.String('Opeth')], signature=dbus.Signature('s'), variant_level=1) - Bleak - [ Blackwater Park ] - [ 88:27:49 / 00:00 ]
22:13	Fixer	o_O
22:16	KaadmY	Wat
22:16	KaadmY	lisac: I think you broke your music IRC logger thingy again
22:16	lisac	I think so too :(
22:21		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:22		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:23	rdococ	How is the default day_night_ratio determined from the time?
22:25		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:28	red-001	well lisac broke
22:28		lisac joined #minetest-hub
22:29	rdococ	rip
22:30	red-001	lisac, sudo system_status
22:31	lisac	sudo: system_status: command not found
22:31	lisac	nah it's just hexchat crashing on script reload
22:31	lisac	they should definitely fix that bug
22:33	rdococ	you know, minimal development test's textures are cool
22:33		bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
22:34		bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
22:36	IhrFussel	Guys which client version was protocol version 28?
22:37		Fixer joined #minetest-hub
22:39	bigfoot547	IhrFussel: I think that it was somewhere between 0.2 and 0.4.16
22:39	bigfoot547	(As in "i'm not sure")
22:40	IhrFussel	Lol...0.4.14 is my guess or latest 0.4.15 ... 32 is 0.4.16
22:40	* rdococ	farts
22:40	rdococ	I have a spontaneous urge to try out one of the earliest versions of the game.
22:41	bigfoot547	The travis build for the stable-0.2 branch failed
22:41	bigfoot547	so good luck
22:41	* bigfoot547	opens a window
22:44		Fixer_ joined #minetest-hub
22:46	Megaf	rdococ, with a lot of trial an error you may be able to make 0.3 run
22:47	Megaf	0.2 I dont think so
22:47	Megaf	0.3 is very cool by the way
22:49	rdococ	why is it?
22:50	rdococ	also, if anything I'll go the lazy route and wine
23:11		DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
23:26		bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub

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