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Message |
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| 03:55 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy, sofar: https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/tasks |
| 03:56 |
benrob0329 |
(Offtopic) |
| 04:45 |
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| 10:51 |
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| 10:51 |
Megaf |
Hi texmex |
| 10:51 |
Megaf |
whoops |
| 10:51 |
Megaf |
that was meant to tenplus1 |
| 10:51 |
Megaf |
Hi all |
| 10:53 |
Dumbeldor |
Hi Megaf |
| 10:54 |
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| 10:59 |
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| 11:01 |
Megaf |
that moment you get so lost in you DE you dont even know if you are in GNOME, XFCE or MATE |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:03 |
Megaf |
I mean, look at it http://i.imgur.com/pfQvdwn.png |
| 11:11 |
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| 11:12 |
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| 11:12 |
IhrFussel |
Is the color definition mandatory when setting the player sky back to regular sky?? |
| 11:13 |
IhrFussel |
The color seems obsolete in this case cause the engine is supposed to use whatever current sky color the daytime defines |
| 11:28 |
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| 11:34 |
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| 11:35 |
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| 11:39 |
Bobr2 |
its to early |
| 11:41 |
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| 12:26 |
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| 12:26 |
IhrFussel |
One of my players claims they got a square minimap with an arrow in it...how? |
| 12:27 |
DS-minetest |
IhrFussel: sneak+minimp |
| 12:28 |
IhrFussel |
I feel like MT has way too many hidden settings/features that nobody uses |
| 12:29 |
IhrFussel |
Because nobody gets introduced to it by the game |
| 12:30 |
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| 12:31 |
DS-minetest |
you mean like inventory_items_animations? |
| 12:32 |
IhrFussel |
Yes and many other settings that are buried in "advanced settings" almost nobody ever edits because it looks extremely complicated...other games chose a better approach: a long scrollable page of settings |
| 12:34 |
IhrFussel |
Of course many advanced settings SHOULD be hidden...but things like view range, inventory stuff, HUD stuff should be on the front settings page IMO |
| 12:39 |
twoelk |
you could formulate your suggestions in a nice overview list that clearly shows how you imagine the organisation of settings - someplace for others to see and discuss |
| 12:50 |
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| 12:51 |
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| 12:54 |
* twoelk |
wonders wether he is still connected |
| 12:56 |
Fuchs |
twoelk: you reconnected, yes |
| 12:58 |
Shara |
IhrFussel: the alternative map locks the map with north up, instead of turning the map with you. Just depends how you want your map to work. |
| 13:53 |
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| 14:01 |
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| 14:09 |
lumidify1 |
I have a question for server owners: roughly how much bandwidth do your servers use on average per month? I'm just wondering in case I decide to run a server myself sometime. |
| 14:41 |
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Zeno` joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:42 |
Zeno` |
hi. can someone please remove my +o access? |
| 15:00 |
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CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:02 |
ThomasMonroe_ |
Zeno why are you leaving? |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
I've lost interest in the project to be honest and I'm working on a game of my own. To be fair I haven't contributed much for quite a while anyway |
| 15:04 |
ThomasMonroe_ |
ah ok |
| 15:04 |
ThomasMonroe_ |
makes sense |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
There is no animosity... I just need to break free |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
if that makes sense |
| 15:05 |
Zeno` |
I mean it's a good project, but it hasn't interested me all that much for quite a while. I feel it's stagnated somewhat as well |
| 15:05 |
ThomasMonroe_ |
i understand |
| 15:22 |
Fixer |
Zeno`: thanks for your contributions |
| 15:24 |
Zeno` |
you're welcome. And thank you |
| 15:25 |
KaadmY |
How do you report people on the forums |
| 15:25 |
KaadmY |
Someone sent me a massive PM regarding OC, said he sent it to everyone |
| 15:25 |
Zeno` |
send me a copy ;) |
| 15:26 |
KaadmY |
What's your forum name? |
| 15:26 |
Zeno` |
I dunno |
| 15:26 |
Zeno` |
Zeno` I think |
| 15:26 |
KaadmY |
:P |
| 15:28 |
Zeno` |
maybe just Zeno |
| 15:28 |
Zeno` |
it's been so long lol |
| 15:28 |
KaadmY |
Yeah it's "Zeno" |
| 15:36 |
Fixer |
if only more server owners used blockless protection... |
| 15:36 |
lisac |
Fixer, the advertiser inside me is screaming 'Craigs server uses areas mod!' |
| 15:36 |
Fixer |
lisac: yeah, i know |
| 15:37 |
lisac |
Hey KaadmY can I get a copy of that PM? Name's lisacvuk |
| 15:37 |
Zeno` |
btw KaadmY, CBS in most certainly NOT interest in OC's ravings |
| 15:37 |
Zeno` |
(I have spoken to them) |
| 15:38 |
KaadmY |
Heh |
| 15:38 |
KaadmY |
Dunno why he sent it to me though |
| 15:38 |
Zeno` |
wow |
| 15:38 |
KaadmY |
I assume he sent it to other people too |
| 15:39 |
lisac |
KaadmY, maybe he saw your PR |
| 15:39 |
KaadmY |
Other people have PRs too though |
| 15:39 |
Zeno` |
oh, the guy (OC) is insane. He doesn't need reasons |
| 15:39 |
KaadmY |
Seems strange especially since I'm pretty unknown |
| 15:40 |
KaadmY |
Also I really don't care |
| 15:48 |
cx384 |
DS-minetest got this PM, too. |
| 15:50 |
cx384 |
title = "Reality and Conscience series" right? |
| 15:54 |
|
soupfly joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:03 |
ThomasMonroe_ |
everyone got it |
| 16:45 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: https://i.imgur.com/Sa2Ky9I.png |
| 16:49 |
Sokomine |
always surprising that things don't work if you give another variable the same name :/ other languages would have told about such errors :( |
| 16:51 |
Sokomine |
oh. bad to hear, zeno. but hope you'll have fun developing your own game. and hope you'll stay here as a listener or come back later on :-) |
| 16:54 |
Sokomine |
very sad how things developped with oldcoder |
| 17:03 |
ThomasMonroe_ |
yes it is |
| 17:11 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: have you moved to tree grow via sapling on dreamb? |
| 17:11 |
VanessaE |
I don't remember. |
| 17:11 |
Sokomine |
afaik dreambuilder only places saplings at mapgen time and later grows them via abm? |
| 17:11 |
Sokomine |
or is that info outdated? |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
oh and yeah I know about that error |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
you can configure moretrees to use saplings though, there's a file for that. |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
should be moretrees_settings.txt in the world dir. |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
as for Oldcoder, he can go to hell. |
| 17:13 |
Sokomine |
i'd love my trees lib to be used more :-) it would be very practical for tree-like things. it does all the registering of the nodes involved, does the growing of saplings into trees...but does not place anything at mapgen time |
| 17:13 |
Sokomine |
once i find time i need to adjust it to the new lbm tree growing method in default |
| 17:14 |
VanessaE |
also, good afternoon all. |
| 17:17 |
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| 17:24 |
Sokomine |
hi :-) |
| 17:24 |
Sokomine |
good...evening |
| 17:26 |
Shara |
What an eventful day |
| 17:26 |
Shara |
Hi all |
| 17:27 |
Sokomine |
oh? did something happen which i missed? |
| 17:27 |
VanessaE |
what events? |
| 17:29 |
Shara |
Zeno and the things about PMs... |
| 17:29 |
VanessaE |
oh that shit again |
| 17:29 |
Shara |
Kind of why I left it at that |
| 17:30 |
Sokomine |
oh yes. hoped it was just zeno getting intrested more in other projects and comming back again later |
| 17:30 |
Shara |
Sounds like Zeno is pretty much done to me :( |
| 17:30 |
Fixer |
kaeza: kebab |
| 17:31 |
Fixer |
gonna make a move |
| 17:32 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: where are animals in dreambuilder? |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
the carbone_mobs mod. |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
sheep, rats, some underground monsters |
| 17:33 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: i'm walking for like 30 min, still no sheep |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
been meaning to give mobs_redo a try sometime |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
but I'm kinda burnt out |
| 17:33 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: trying out GC64 build, no OOM for 20 min yetg |
| 17:34 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: for 40 min* |
| 17:34 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: this is big |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
good luck |
| 17:36 |
Fixer |
usually it is 5-10 min and OOM |
| 17:36 |
Fixer |
40 min - no oom |
| 17:36 |
Fixer |
GC64 is doing |
| 17:36 |
Fixer |
same for that 2.5gb mem code, doing |
| 17:36 |
Fixer |
worldedit - doing |
| 17:37 |
Sokomine |
sounds fine, fixer |
| 17:37 |
Fixer |
very fine |
| 17:37 |
Fixer |
OOM were worst problems for me |
| 17:38 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: mobs_redo seems to do fine on many servers. some mobs are nice. i don't like the way breeding is done, with mobs spreading hearts when fed |
| 17:39 |
VanessaE |
maybe that can be turned off? *shrug* |
| 17:39 |
Shara |
mobs_redo mostly works well for me |
| 17:39 |
Manzano_ |
burnt out VanessaE? does it taste like chiken |
| 17:40 |
CWz |
Anyway, mobs redo is split into 3 mods. |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
"it tastes like.... despair." |
| 17:41 |
* Sokomine |
hands VanessaE a deliscious piece of cheese cake that can be very good for the mood |
| 17:41 |
CWz |
What? Burnt VanessaE tastes like this pear? |
| 17:41 |
Shara |
CWz: 3? |
| 17:41 |
CWz |
Hmm 4 perhaps |
| 17:41 |
* Sokomine |
turns lava into a variant that doesn't burn |
| 17:42 |
CWz |
We need frostbite in minetest |
| 17:42 |
Sokomine |
could be, yes. some mobs are split into packages. which is fine. not all hostile creatures are desired in all worlds |
| 17:43 |
Sokomine |
standing on ice without footwear might be quite cold, yes :-) |
| 17:44 |
CWz |
Mobs_redo is great lots of thirdparty mobs |
| 17:44 |
VanessaE |
but seriously, between this oldcoder bullshit and my just plain being tired, Minetest is kinda "meh" for me right now, guys. sorry :( |
| 17:44 |
Sokomine |
some mobs have very nice models |
| 17:44 |
Shara |
mobs_redo is only one mod, but then you add mods for the actual monsters |
| 17:45 |
Shara |
So you end up with how ever many mods to get whatever you want |
| 17:45 |
Shara |
I think DarkLands has 6 or 7 mobs mods total for example. |
| 17:47 |
Sokomine |
there are many cute mods, i.e. the penguins. the cows have a better (smaller) size than in the animals modpack |
| 17:47 |
Sokomine |
many wool providers roam the world, waiting for players to right-click them with shears |
| 17:47 |
Shara |
I'm just sad the nssm mob models are so ridiculously huge |
| 18:25 |
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CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:26 |
IhrFussel |
Just had someone joining my server JUST to tell the people to join another server...and it was not the first time someone told my players to visit that server, I feel like the admin there is desperate for players |
| 18:27 |
Shara |
Fussel, I've had players do that when I know the admin is against them doing it as well. |
| 18:27 |
Shara |
It can work both ways |
| 18:28 |
IhrFussel |
Not sure what benefits the players would have if the admin is against it |
| 18:28 |
Shara |
If the player has high privs there but the server is empty. |
| 18:28 |
Shara |
I've seen that before |
| 18:29 |
IhrFussel |
The reason I'm sharing it here is cause I wanna know if another server owner recently had a player named something like "homt[number]" or "homthack" telling players to join "shiningmoon" |
| 18:29 |
Shara |
Also had someone spam-advertising Xanadu once, and I know full well Ten didn't ask them to. |
| 18:30 |
Shara |
Name doesn't show on today's logs at least for me |
| 18:31 |
IhrFussel |
Nah doesn't have to be today, last time he joined was a week ago...but the pattern is always the same: join -> tell [random player(s)] to join the shiningmoon -> leave |
| 18:32 |
Shara |
Nothing at all for "shiningmoon" |
| 18:32 |
Shara |
Though I only checked the IRC logs, not the full server logs. |
| 18:32 |
IhrFussel |
The ingame chat log would be more helpful xP |
| 18:33 |
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bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:33 |
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bigfoot547 left #minetest-hub |
| 18:34 |
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behalebabo joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:35 |
IhrFussel |
Shiningmoon is a minetesthosting server lol? (25/07/17 19:56:36) [Heircope1]: Turtle and Shara MerleManga join the Shiningmoon put minetesthosting.com and port 30533 please |
| 18:36 |
Shara |
... |
| 18:36 |
Shara |
It's Faker |
| 18:36 |
Shara |
Check the IP address really. |
| 18:36 |
IhrFussel |
Yes it is him but I wanna know WHY he continues to advertise that server |
| 18:36 |
Shara |
Why does he do anything? |
| 18:37 |
IhrFussel |
He makes my players curious when he says that so he kinda damages my business |
| 18:37 |
Shara |
Trying to understand Faker will earn you nothing but a headache. |
| 18:37 |
Shara |
I tried, but I could never get any sense out of him. |
| 18:38 |
Shara |
I mean, why did he pretend to be me, get full privs on two servers, then do nothing but make multiple accounts to also give full privs to and change the signs at spawn? |
| 18:40 |
IhrFussel |
He doesn't seem "dangerous" but "retarted" |
| 18:40 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: "tell the people to join another server", just ban those guys, if it is clearly advertising, and if it is against the rules, I've seen this in other games too |
| 18:40 |
Shara |
FUssel: yup, same assessment |
| 18:40 |
IhrFussel |
I mean anyone really malicious would've caused A LOT of trouble with such privs...and all he does is changing signs? |
| 18:41 |
Shara |
Banning him never works unless you want to ban his whole ISP/country |
| 18:41 |
Shara |
He's also posted videos on youtube before that were just him running about and lots of interference. |
| 18:42 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, unfortunately many countries/ISPs still give out dynamic IPs which means a ban won't do a thing |
| 18:42 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: then write a simple mod that detects links and prevent them to show |
| 18:42 |
Shara |
I just learned to identify him right away from what he says (as you saw today) |
| 18:43 |
Shara |
Fixer, why would it be a link? |
| 18:43 |
Fixer |
Shara: detect any kind of advertisement via lua and just kick such players |
| 18:44 |
IhrFussel |
It's not a link just the name of the server mostly...I could ban the server name and "minetesthosting.com" and "[port]" |
| 18:44 |
Shara |
And if he says "join shiningmoon" or "come to shiningmoon"? |
| 18:46 |
Fixer |
Shara: detect join and shiningmoon -> kick |
| 18:46 |
Shara |
Fixer: there's so many variations. |
| 18:51 |
IhrFussel |
also if players realize "shiningmoon" is banned they will find other spelling options like sh!ningmoon, shiningm00n, s h i n i n g m o o n etc etc |
| 18:51 |
Sokomine |
IhrFussel: i always thought such players that just join to advertise other servers are very young children who hope to get more players on their server |
| 18:52 |
Sokomine |
Shara: i met a fake vanessae on maikaumines mineclone2 server recently. then later on there was a vanessac. didn't even do much at all. the faking of the name thus remains a mystery |
| 18:52 |
Sokomine |
probably very very young |
| 18:54 |
Sokomine |
in general i do like the attitide on mt servers. server owners are aware that there are other servers, and players may talk about those other servers instead of pretending there's nothing else in the world |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:54 |
IhrFussel |
Sokomine, the actual problem is not the faking but the fact that many (young) server owners simply BELIEVE that they are the real persons and grant them privs |
| 18:55 |
Sokomine |
that's a problem, yes. i always check on irc if unsure |
| 18:55 |
IhrFussel |
And the guy who advertises the server doesn't seem to be that young |
| 18:56 |
Sokomine |
we could write it in a guide for new server owners. explain to them that any name can be taken and that there's no global namespace for mt players |
| 18:56 |
Sokomine |
doesn't seem particulary grown up to me if all he does is join other servers to advertise for his favorite |
| 18:58 |
Shara |
Faker isn't an idiot, and I have seen him pull off a few tricky exploits. |
| 18:58 |
IhrFussel |
Advertising on a completely different server usually makes no sense because the server you advertise for will NOT be what the players on server X look for |
| 18:58 |
Shara |
Including realising when there is no longer a player account for a protected area, then registering the name to take control of it (...and place more weird signs) |
| 18:58 |
Sokomine |
maybe a line like "if you meet someone with a name you know from elsewhere on a server, use other channels (i.e. where you know that person from) to confirm identity" |
| 18:59 |
Shara |
Sokomine: It's good advice of course, but then you have to make sure a new server owner reads it... |
| 18:59 |
Sokomine |
no. advertising for a particulary server only makes sense if a player expresses intrest in something and that particular something is covered better on another server |
| 19:00 |
Sokomine |
Shara: i don't see how we can do more |
| 19:00 |
Shara |
I dont' expect anyone to. Nothing is going to compensate for a lack of experience |
| 19:01 |
IhrFussel |
The best solution would be universal accounts, but I know the devs are largely against it |
| 19:01 |
Sokomine |
a list of hints/faq would help. do we have such a thing? linked directly on the main page, as sticky topic in the server forum part...don't know if such a thing exists |
| 19:02 |
Sokomine |
that's right. that would solve the problem but be against the spirit of mt |
| 19:02 |
IhrFussel |
One account for all servers but also not being banned on every server if one server bans you...just so that no one else can take your name on any server |
| 19:03 |
rubenwardy |
!g starting a server site:wiki.minetest.net |
| 19:03 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: Setting up a server/Debian - Minetest Wiki - These instructions have been tested in Debian Jessie ("Testing" as of January 2015) which includes a minetest-server package. A simple Minetest server can be started in any Debian (Ubuntu, Linux Mint or derivative distribution) that has the minetest package by going to its "Server" tab... (8 more messages) |
| 19:03 |
rubenwardy |
http://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server |
| 19:03 |
Sokomine |
ah, thanks, rubenwardy |
| 19:03 |
lumidify |
IhrFussel: But then someone would need to maintain the infrastructure needed to have centralised accounts. |
| 19:03 |
IhrFussel |
It would be extremely difficult to even implement such global accounts...and it would require a master server with GOOD performance to handle all those requests |
| 19:03 |
rubenwardy |
in particular, there's a protecting the server section |
| 19:03 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel, nah not really |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
it would be difficult syncronising |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
ie: as we already have a ton of accounts |
| 19:04 |
Shara |
Problem is getting new server owners to read that. (Hint: more often than not, they won't) |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
actually |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
I didn't consider actually implementing it in Minetest, that would be the hardest part to do right |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
the master server bit is fairly easy |
| 19:05 |
Shara |
Ugh, and seriously.. I can't even look at that page without the editor in me screaming. |
| 19:05 |
Shara |
Who to see for a wiki account? |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou, |
| 19:05 |
Sokomine |
rubenwardy: the page does not seem to address that problem. protection mods, fire and tnt are handled - that's good. the social aspects do not seem to be covered. more the technical ones. in a way a server is more demanding regarding the social interaction than anything... |
| 19:06 |
rubenwardy |
Sokomine, I was saying that's the page to add any such things |
| 19:06 |
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soupfly joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:06 |
Sokomine |
ah. shara got intrested :-) that's good for the page |
| 19:06 |
Shara |
I'm willing to write something.... if I can get the good ahead to rewrite parts of that page related to this |
| 19:06 |
Shara |
go ahead* |
| 19:06 |
Sokomine |
sounds good :-) now you only need to get an account to edit the wiki |
| 19:07 |
IhrFussel |
MAYBE it would be useful to add hint messages while loading a server...many online games do that |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
That's usually for players, not server owners |
| 19:07 |
Sokomine |
hardware requirements and mods recommended might also be an intresting point |
| 19:09 |
Calinou |
hi rubenwardy :P |
| 19:09 |
Calinou |
Shara: PM me your email address and desired username, for getting a wiki account |
| 19:09 |
Shara |
How to recommend mods though? I mean, how to even get a mod onto the wiki mod list unless you self-promote? |
| 19:09 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, but usually server owners also play on their server so they would see the messages either way |
| 19:10 |
Sokomine |
hm, that might indeed be tricky. there's already the areas mod mentionned. that's good |
| 19:10 |
Shara |
Still not appropriate to direct guidance specifically for a server owner into something for players |
| 19:10 |
Sokomine |
ah. /spawn is something servers need |
| 19:10 |
IhrFussel |
The problem is MT is kinda both...a client and server |
| 19:11 |
Sokomine |
metionning something like inbox also couldn't hurt |
| 19:11 |
Sokomine |
trading/shop/money mods |
| 19:11 |
lumidify |
If you're going to add anything about hardware requirements, you could also add some average bandwidth measurements (just bringing up the question I asked earlier). |
| 19:11 |
Sokomine |
but maybe that's too advanced already |
| 19:12 |
Sokomine |
/spawn definitely needs to get mentionned |
| 19:13 |
IhrFussel |
Sokomine, do you mean hardware requirements for servers? Cause that won't work, it totally depends on the amount of mods the server owner wants to run and the type of mods |
| 19:13 |
Shara |
What Fussel said. |
| 19:13 |
lisac |
celeron55, I'm sorry to bother you, but could you please move my mod to release? I placed it on the move thread a month ago |
| 19:14 |
IhrFussel |
A server with 10 heavy mods will likely lag more than one with 20 lightweight ones |
| 19:15 |
IhrFussel |
I'd say even a cheap Android phone could handle a MT server with just MTG with almost no lag |
| 19:15 |
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tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:15 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 19:16 |
Sokomine |
ihrfussel: i know that it's not easy and depends a lot on circumstances. listing some examples - i.e. a very low-performance server like a raspberry ("keep the amount of mods low"), a medium server with a few players, and a high-end server willing to serve 20+ players and running mesecons, technic, and whatever. just very rough information |
| 19:16 |
IhrFussel |
Well...it could probably help a few average joe's |
| 19:17 |
Sokomine |
IhrFussel: i've such a one. as long as the device has sufficient ram, it works nicely as a client. technicly it could probably run a server, but if you'd want that... |
| 19:17 |
IhrFussel |
joes* |
| 19:17 |
Sokomine |
hi ten |
| 19:17 |
IhrFussel |
hello tenplus1 |
| 19:17 |
tenplus1 |
o/ :P |
| 19:17 |
tenplus1 |
how's things |
| 19:17 |
Sokomine |
yes. just so that people get a general, broad idea |
| 19:18 |
tenplus1 |
hi soko |
| 19:19 |
Shara |
Hi Ten |
| 19:19 |
tenplus1 |
hey Shara |
| 19:19 |
IhrFussel |
MT Android as a client needs ~ 50 MB RAM (with no extra mods) ... any phone today should be able to run it, but if we talk connecting to servers....the RAM requirements range from 10 - 3000 MB I'd say |
| 19:20 |
Sokomine |
it wasn't much fun with a very cheap tablet with just 0.5 gb ram. 1 gb ram was fine |
| 19:21 |
IhrFussel |
512 MB phone has no chance on my server...will crash before joining ... I think my server needs ~ 700 |
| 19:21 |
Sokomine |
such things might be of intrest to hopeful new server owners as well. if they want to run a small server for a couple of friends who plan to join with their tablets the needs will be diffrent than for other servers |
| 19:21 |
Shara |
Well, I can't do much about hardware requirements (I don't know enough), but I can add some general guidelines. |
| 19:22 |
Shara |
Like not typing /grant all on random strangers who happened to use a well known name :) |
| 19:22 |
Sokomine |
the general guidelines will be fine :-) just throwing in some ideas (as long as i don't have to do the work it's easy to have ideas :)) |
| 19:23 |
Shara |
Feel free to make a list and send my way then |
| 19:25 |
IhrFussel |
You should probably also explain why many players have this name pattern "[A-Z][a-z]{1,}[0-9]{3,4}" |
| 19:25 |
IhrFussel |
Cause too many server owners seem to think those are bots |
| 19:26 |
Shara |
I don't understand why they think it. |
| 19:27 |
IhrFussel |
Cause often it's the exact same name just with another number |
| 19:27 |
IhrFussel |
And I gotta say the names DO look computer generated |
| 19:28 |
tenplus1 |
we ban names with too many numbers, beginning with guest or sara xxxx and swears |
| 19:29 |
IhrFussel |
The app devs were clever when they changed the guest pattern from "GuestXXXX" to this cause it is nearly impossible to track down every possible name |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
that regex helps, even when there's false positives |
| 19:30 |
rubenwardy |
also, relevant: https://xkcd.com/810/ |
| 19:30 |
IhrFussel |
Nah that regex would lock out a LOT of players not connecting from apps |
| 19:30 |
IhrFussel |
You decided to count them as "guests" in the server list which is mainly why the servers JUMP so much |
| 19:31 |
tenplus1 |
hi ruben |
| 19:31 |
IhrFussel |
The whole server list algorithm is out of control IMO |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
hi tenplus1 |
| 19:33 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 19:33 |
IhrFussel |
I did the test and added an ingame script that checked my server position in the list every few minutes...and sometimes it jumped from 16th to 5th place in a matter of minutes...and then from 2nd to 25th place |
| 19:33 |
IhrFussel |
Is that what you call normal? |
| 19:34 |
tenplus1 |
all depends on users, max users, uptime, latency/lag |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: names are comp generated, players are real |
| 19:34 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, the servers did NOT jump like that last year |
| 19:35 |
tenplus1 |
I think the rating system was changed |
| 19:35 |
CalebDavis |
hi ten i am starting work on a subgame :) |
| 19:35 |
tenplus1 |
hi Caleb... kewl |
| 19:35 |
IhrFussel |
It because the server list algorithm now counts any of those A-Za-z0-9 names "guests" and only gives them 1/8 points |
| 19:36 |
IhrFussel |
So there are WAYYYYYY more guests now on servers than before |
| 19:37 |
IhrFussel |
And the worst part is it is not something the server owner can actually control (unless they implement this extreme regex) |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
this tool tells you why you get a score: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d6882db0cbe1b5b24be |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
it may be out of date though |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
but it's easy to update |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
literally copy and paste code from the master server list |
| 19:38 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, I updated and used that script if it's the one you once told me...the main reason why the servers jump so much is simply because too many guests play now on servers and cause this unstable behavior |
| 19:39 |
rubenwardy |
looks like the only thing they changed in the algorithm was the guest -> any prefix |
| 19:39 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 19:39 |
IhrFussel |
Yes so if a server has 5 "real" players and 10 "guests" it will be low in the list likely |
| 19:41 |
IhrFussel |
Fact is: In the past (before app devs changed guest names to those patterns) there were hardly any guests on servers ... now it's the complete opposite |
| 19:45 |
IhrFussel |
I'm guessing the app devs thought "many servers don't allow empty names and our app users will not be able to play -> they think the app is broken -> delete app" so they made it so the app auto-assigns a name to prevent the "empty name" error |
| 19:46 |
Shara |
It is kind of annoying to be ranked down because of which people happen to join my server. |
| 19:47 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, yes EXACTLY |
| 19:47 |
tenplus1 |
I'd remove the guest filter from ranking... a player is a player afterall |
| 19:47 |
Shara |
A lot of these players actually build things.. and I have had some stick around a really long time |
| 19:48 |
Shara |
I mean, sure, I could ban all that fit that pattern, but I don't think it's fair to |
| 19:48 |
IhrFussel |
One of those players is actually a helper on my server (or was one and became too inactive) ... they are people like us with the difference that they simply did NOT enter a name before connecting |
| 19:49 |
Shara |
In some cases, I think they do enter a name but the app forces a number on the end unless you play |
| 19:49 |
IhrFussel |
I really don't think it's fair to see them as guests...there are no guests in MT, anyone who connects for the first time gets an account |
| 19:49 |
Shara |
I've had players who had both "name" and "name-numbers" user names they play under depending on where they connect from |
| 19:50 |
IhrFussel |
Under "guest" I understand something that DELETES itself after the player left |
| 19:51 |
tenplus1 |
the no_guest mod asks them to choose another player name if it starts with guest or has too many numbers after it |
| 19:52 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, the "GuestXXXX" or "[0-9]" rules are deprecated...the app devs use very random names now because they KNOW server owners will not be able to block them 100% WITHOUT having false positives |
| 19:53 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: Elisabeth666 is better than Guest666 |
| 19:53 |
tenplus1 |
+1 ... also hi fixer |
| 19:53 |
Fixer |
or capecuppuppyhitler |
| 19:53 |
Fixer |
hi |
| 19:53 |
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| 19:53 |
tenplus1 |
hi behalebabo |
| 19:53 |
behalebabo |
hello |
| 19:54 |
IhrFussel |
But I doubt we can convince the devs to remove the "guest penalty" code |
| 19:54 |
IhrFussel |
Another option would be to add an array with all known prefixes without the numbers and check against that array...but that will be cumbersome and slow |
| 19:56 |
Shara |
Just don't see the need of it myself - a player is a player, as you said. But it's also not a hugely bad thing if servers move up and down the list a lot (gets exposure for more servers) |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
you all just overzealous :} |
| 19:57 |
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| 19:57 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, do you think it's a good thing when your server jumps places in the server list WITHOUT you having any control over it? |
| 19:57 |
tenplus1 |
hi thomas |
| 19:57 |
ThomasMonroe |
hi ten |
| 19:58 |
IhrFussel |
It just takes a few app users to bring down your server 10+ places |
| 19:58 |
IhrFussel |
This is extremely stupid sorry |
| 19:58 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: i've heared some discussion about this on IRC, there is algorithm, i think you can find it here https://github.com/minetest/master-server |
| 19:59 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, dude that algorithm is what we are talking about...the "guests code" is deprecated |
| 19:59 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: yep |
| 19:59 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: if you have some suggestions, open an issue over there |
| 20:00 |
IhrFussel |
You cannot simply say all [A-Z][a-z]{1,}[0-9]{3,4} players are "guests" this is wrong...that means there are 50+% GUESTS on a server |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:00 |
tenplus1 |
hi tumeni |
| 20:01 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: nobody cares, guest = player |
| 20:01 |
tumeninodes |
howdy tenplus1 |
| 20:01 |
tumeninodes |
hi fixer |
| 20:01 |
IhrFussel |
But guests only get 1/8 point in the server list and "real" players get 1.0 points |
| 20:01 |
Fixer |
hello |
| 20:01 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: hmmmm, then algorithm should be altered |
| 20:02 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: open an issue about that |
| 20:03 |
IhrFussel |
The devs will close it shortly after |
| 20:03 |
IhrFussel |
Nothing against any core dev personally, but they can be super stubborn about something |
| 20:05 |
ThomasMonroe |
i agree there |
| 20:06 |
IhrFussel |
I feel like IF they would agree with us, they would have removed that code instead of updating it |
| 20:07 |
IhrFussel |
I can try to open an issue about it...there's nothing to lose I guess |
| 20:12 |
Fixer |
https://techreport.com/news/32362/amd-confirms-linux-performance-marginality-problem-on-ryzen |
| 20:13 |
tumeninodes |
na ah |
| 20:13 |
tenplus1 |
eek |
| 20:14 |
tumeninodes |
AMD needs to fix that :P |
| 20:14 |
tenplus1 |
thankfully bios updates shoudl fix thid |
| 20:15 |
rubenwardy |
maybe see what sfan5 thinks |
| 20:16 |
IhrFussel |
https://github.com/minetest/master-server/issues/17 |
| 20:19 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: +1 -ed |
| 20:19 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: the point of the ordering code is to move high-quality servers to the top |
| 20:19 |
sfan5 |
quality of a server is also determined by its players |
| 20:19 |
tenplus1 |
+1 |
| 20:19 |
tenplus1 |
hi sfan |
| 20:20 |
sfan5 |
players using these kinds of mobile apps are lower-quality which is why they award less "points" |
| 20:20 |
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| 20:20 |
tumeninodes |
hehe low quality mobile app kids :P |
| 20:20 |
sfan5 |
they are "lower-quality" due to their limited abilities (which are simply do to how controls work on android) |
| 20:21 |
Fixer |
sfan5: but your stats show that 90% are lowquality anyway %) |
| 20:22 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, this is kind of racist to say...mobile users are NOT automatically "low quality" how could you even think that?! |
| 20:23 |
IhrFussel |
I bet there are mobile users out there that build better than most PC users ever could |
| 20:24 |
tumeninodes |
does quality have any relation to popularity? I'm trying to understand the ratings and listing placement method |
| 20:24 |
sfan5 |
i wasn't denying that |
| 20:25 |
Shara |
I have builds on my server by mobile users while are extremely high quality. |
| 20:25 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, the guest code makes no sense anymore...it sounds silly to say that 50% of players on server X are "guests" ... and I also don't think mobile users SHOULD be called "guests" by default |
| 20:26 |
Shara |
Mobile player just seems more likely to mean younger player. |
| 20:27 |
CWz |
Shara, ya sure they're mobile? |
| 20:27 |
sfan5 |
it's just a fact that the majority of mobile players are low-quality because they are just kids wanting to "play the game" without much regard towards complicated rules, long-term engagements or expert building |
| 20:27 |
CWz |
i can't imagine anyone being able to build anything using a mobile device |
| 20:28 |
sfan5 |
this applies even more so to players who didn't change the default name given to them |
| 20:28 |
IhrFussel |
Younger != less mature |
| 20:28 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: it means exactly that in the vast majority of cases |
| 20:28 |
tumeninodes |
younger = PGI (parental guidance impaired) |
| 20:28 |
IhrFussel |
I was once a MOBILE user...and I managed my server via a PHONE ... did that make me younger or dumber? |
| 20:29 |
Shara |
CWz: Not sure if you ever noticed him, but the player that comes to mind was Mohawk. He used multicraft to play |
| 20:29 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, the definition of a "guest account" is NOT what Minetest "guest" accounts are...read my 3rd point again in the issue please in case you didn't yet |
| 20:29 |
sfan5 |
concering 2: i don't see how this is a problem; concerning 3: the code calls them "guest" because that is what their name used to be |
| 20:30 |
Shara |
He built a huge castle, including working mesecons oors and ships |
| 20:30 |
sfan5 |
other than the comment in the source code nobody else is calling them "guests" |
| 20:30 |
Shara |
doors* |
| 20:30 |
IhrFussel |
It doesn't matter what they are called...a guest account is NOT PERSISTENT |
| 20:30 |
sfan5 |
are you really complaing about the code comments calling them "guest" instead of "low-quality"? |
| 20:30 |
IhrFussel |
But the "guest" accounts on MT servers ARE persistent |
| 20:30 |
Shara |
And Fussel, I didn't say younger means anything other than younger. It was an observation. |
| 20:31 |
Calinou |
playing 3D games on mobile is, most of the time, a novelty |
| 20:31 |
Calinou |
which is why not a lot of serious, mature people do it |
| 20:31 |
tenplus1 |
nite folks :P |
| 20:31 |
Fixer |
#PCMASTERRACE |
| 20:31 |
Calinou |
sometimes I play GZDoom on my phone, it doesn't mean I do that daily |
| 20:31 |
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| 20:31 |
sfan5 |
besides it says guest in quotes for exactly that reason, they are not real guests |
| 20:31 |
tumeninodes |
nite 10+1 |
| 20:32 |
Shara |
sfan5: I think the issue is how much it affects placement on the server list. |
| 20:32 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, you don't get my point...either remove the whole "guest" stuff OR make guest accounts really non-persistent (which will make MOST app users sad since they need to start over each time again) |
| 20:32 |
sfan5 |
you don't get my point |
| 20:33 |
IhrFussel |
There are THREE points I mention...and I want to see a reply from core devs for all 3 points |
| 20:33 |
sfan5 |
"guest" is just how it's called because of historic reasons, nobody is claiming that those are "real" guest account |
| 20:33 |
Fixer |
Shara: to play 3d games on phone, you have two be mazohistic enough |
| 20:33 |
Fixer |
to be* |
| 20:33 |
Shara |
Fixer: In some cases it's the only option people have |
| 20:34 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, calling all players with such prefix names "low-quality" is an insult |
| 20:34 |
Fixer |
guest is just for people who forgot to type the name, guest is still a player and penalazing because of legacy "guest" smth is weird |
| 20:34 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: no, it's a fact |
| 20:34 |
sfan5 |
that obviously doesn't apply to all, but the majority of these mobile players |
| 20:35 |
IhrFussel |
And low-quality users shouldn't have the same rights as normal users...that is what you want to tell me |
| 20:35 |
Fixer |
i never knew we have pcmasterrace kind of server listing |
| 20:36 |
tumeninodes |
should be based on popularity, would make more sense wouldn't it? |
| 20:36 |
sfan5 |
the sorting is supposed to find high-quality servers with high-quality players, "all players are equal" is not supposed to apply |
| 20:36 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, face the fact that MT is essentially a home for MOBILE players now...counting 90% of players "low-quality" and "guests" is ridiculous |
| 20:37 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: no it is just gameplay on phone is horrible, and people who use it are young kids without even a proper PC building box houses, it is fact, does not mean they are retarded, they are kids, some of them will be nice builders on PC eventually, some will abandon the game |
| 20:37 |
tumeninodes |
that way the high quality players know to just scroll to the bottom ; ) |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
sfan5: Hmm, since when did which players connect to my server decide its quality? |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: this does not apply to ALL mobile players |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
My server is lower quality because I don't ban app users? |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
Shara: not necessarily |
| 20:38 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, it applies to almost all mobile players since barely anyone uses the OFFICIAL app |
| 20:38 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: no |
| 20:39 |
Shara |
Of course it's not. My server's quality is decided by how well I maintain it, how well my team runs it, and whether players show up or not. |
| 20:39 |
sfan5 |
the official app is not the only one that allows setting your nickname |
| 20:39 |
Shara |
If those players are app users, then so long as they follow my rules (and I ban them if they don't) they are good players. |
| 20:39 |
Fixer |
official up is 0.4.15 on fdroid at least btw (trollface) |
| 20:40 |
IhrFussel |
I TOTALLY agree with Shara ... you core devs don't seem to fully understand what it means to a server owner who WORKS HARD for his server to hear that his server is "low-quality" JUST because he/she allows mobile users on it! |
| 20:40 |
Fixer |
Shara: from PCmasterrace point of view, when you join server with tons of mobile app users you have - 95% ugly as f--- architecture, MOM/DAD/GIVEME1BLOCKOFDIRT/CRYING etc :) |
| 20:41 |
sfan5 |
i am not saying your server is low-quality wtf |
| 20:41 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: +1 |
| 20:41 |
IhrFussel |
YOU DO |
| 20:41 |
sfan5 |
nah |
| 20:41 |
Shara |
Fussel, in fainress, finding a fair method isn't exactly easy either. |
| 20:41 |
IhrFussel |
Because you say if the server has many prefix-users it counts as low-quality |
| 20:41 |
rubenwardy |
he's saying that the players are |
| 20:41 |
Fixer |
if we have 90% of mobile, most of servers are penalazied anyway |
| 20:41 |
tumeninodes |
If it went by popularity, this is where most of those young mobile users will go for 2 reasons, 1. it's popular and 2. it's at the top of the list and easiest & quickest choice, the higher quality, better maintained servers would be further down, this is where the higher quality players will go because they will have the patience to scroll down |
| 20:41 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: it still doesn't apply to ALL mobile players |
| 20:41 |
rubenwardy |
oh, I guess that's a point |
| 20:42 |
Shara |
tumeninodes: that doesn't work in practice. |
| 20:42 |
Fixer |
sfan5: yeah, but server itself can be good, yet it penalazied, because ... mobile. |
| 20:42 |
twoelk |
sfan5 the term guests is indeed a historic term in minetest - so historic that it is totaly out of date with the current quality of mobile apps and players as far as I have observed |
| 20:42 |
Shara |
I can get about ten players online, all well established PC players.. and my server is up in the top 10 or top 5.. then the app users flood in |
| 20:43 |
IhrFussel |
You essentially FORCE server owners to add that stupid regex to lock out mobile users with those apps in order for their server to have a chance to get a HIGHER RANK in the list |
| 20:43 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: which makes perfect sense as you described yourself |
| 20:43 |
Fixer |
sfan5: #PCMASTERRACE |
| 20:43 |
Fixer |
#LINUXMASTERRACE |
| 20:43 |
sfan5 |
a servers quality is not solely determined by the players, but they play an important role |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
i have no idea we had that kind of sorting, /scrolls down |
| 20:44 |
Shara |
It's also normal for the app users to be fairly quiet |
| 20:44 |
Shara |
So they don't exactly cause problems in chat |
| 20:44 |
IhrFussel |
And you say a player's build/play quality can be determined from the player name |
| 20:44 |
sfan5 |
the player name gives a hint yes |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
Shara: they do |
| 20:44 |
IhrFussel |
I diagree with that...the name does NOT tell you ANYTHING about the person behind it |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
Shara: just go to Hometown :) |
| 20:45 |
tumeninodes |
Shara, if your server is within the top 10 it is susceptible to those users |
| 20:45 |
Fixer |
Shara: big kindergarten |
| 20:45 |
Shara |
Fixer: hometown might need some more moderators then? |
| 20:45 |
twoelk |
can't the impact guest-like accounts have on the rating be simply lowered somewhat? |
| 20:45 |
Fixer |
Shara: they allow roleplay though iirc |
| 20:45 |
Fixer |
and if it is allowed... chat is ----ed |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
Yea, well, I won't spend long on servers with that mommy/daddy stuff |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
And if you choose to.. well, you choose to. |
| 20:46 |
IhrFussel |
How about you give "guests/low-quality users" at least 4/8 points instead of 1/8 ... that would be an idea |
| 20:46 |
tumeninodes |
why mommy? |
| 20:46 |
Fixer |
tumeninodes: MOM |
| 20:46 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: are you saying Scudder713 is as likely as Pie-jacker to become a long-term player on my server who builds good looking buildings? |
| 20:46 |
tumeninodes |
hehe |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
"who will be my mommy" "can i be baby" "blahblahblah" |
| 20:46 |
sfan5 |
protip: if you say yes you're wrong |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
ANd other nonsense. |
| 20:47 |
sfan5 |
before you answer "but you don't know for sure": it's not about that, it's about probability |
| 20:47 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, are you REALLY trying to see if the player will like your server and play regularly on it or not JUST from the player name??? |
| 20:47 |
sfan5 |
yes because that is how statistics and correlation works |
| 20:47 |
Shara |
sfan5: All I will say is take a moment to look at the list of people in this channel... sniper there, with his three numbers and all, is the only person to date that I have allowed to host a public server for me. |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
Shara: his name doesn't match the regex |
| 20:48 |
Fixer |
sfan5: or do other way, add capability to disallow conecting of mobile clients to server, and sort list just by players, server owners of PRO servers will just ban android/whatever %) |
| 20:48 |
Shara |
Name + three numbers seems to be the app pattern though? |
| 20:48 |
Fixer |
Hometown Pro (tm)(r), featuring PC players only, 21+ |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
Uppercase name plus 3-4 numbers |
| 20:48 |
Fixer |
Sadie |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: it's not elitism, it's quality control |
| 20:49 |
Shara |
It would be quality control if you were rating players perhaps, not when you are rating servers |
| 20:49 |
sfan5 |
it might make sense to penalize servers for ""mobile guests"" less, but removing this restriction entirely is just stupid |
| 20:50 |
Shara |
Well, as I said earlier, I'm not complteely against so much movement in the server list |
| 20:50 |
Shara |
completely* |
| 20:50 |
Shara |
Because it does help more servers get some time at the top. |
| 20:50 |
rubenwardy |
how many guest names tend to be productive, and how many tend to wander around doing nothing? |
| 20:50 |
tumeninodes |
I'm gonna host a 21+ server, you have to be intoxicated to play :P drunktest |
| 20:51 |
Shara |
At a glance, I only see 21 servers right now that have 5 or more players connected anyway... |
| 20:51 |
IhrFussel |
Such extreme jumps are too much ... rubenwardy you cannot simply say "oh this player has a predetermined name it will not stay or build well" ... that is not how it works...maybe in STATSISTICS but not in real-performance |
| 20:51 |
Fixer |
sfan5: but is it really working? (that algorithm), i wonder how it looks with and without it |
| 20:52 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel, that is literally how probability works though |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: how do you determine whether it "works"? |
| 20:52 |
Shara |
One danger(?) if you change it, is that only servers that allow and support very high numbers of players will ever be able to get to the top |
| 20:52 |
Fixer |
sfan5: compare list with penalization and without |
| 20:52 |
rubenwardy |
I should probably not get involved |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
and how do you see whether it "works"? |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
one example btw: just test, 30players but pretty low on the list |
| 20:53 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, you shouldn't use probability in the server list or AT LEAST make the difference smaller...like I said I'd be happy if the penalty was 4/8 instead of 1/8 |
| 20:53 |
Fixer |
sfan5: my theory is, there are 90% of mobile, they will outwheight 10% anyway even with 4/8 1/8 thing |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: that's true |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
it's not about ignoring mobile |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
it's about giving then less weight |
| 20:54 |
sfan5 |
them* |
| 20:54 |
Shara |
I've actually seen situations where my two servers have been in the top three together, with both around the 18 players online mark. But servers that get 30 players aren't necessarily better than mine. They just simply allow more players. |
| 20:54 |
Shara |
But a server that never has more than 1 or 2 players? Well yes, it's safe to assume that's not as good as any that often have 10+... |
| 20:55 |
Fixer |
sfan5: you may as well penalaze those servers without passwords, those are evil :trollface: |
| 20:55 |
Shara |
Just that at some point the number of players may stop being an indication of server quality completely. |
| 20:56 |
Fixer |
here is part of code: https://github.com/minetest/master-server/blob/master/server.py#L295 |
| 20:56 |
Fixer |
it is damn complicated |
| 20:56 |
rubenwardy |
this tool tells you why you get a score: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d6882db0cbe1b5b24be |
| 20:56 |
* twoelk |
knows quite a few wonderfull servers with normaly only few players online at the same time |
| 20:56 |
Fixer |
f--- |
| 20:56 |
rubenwardy |
it's missing the guest -> [A-Z][a-z]+ change though |
| 20:57 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: python3 compatible? |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: the regex is more complicated than that |
| 20:57 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 20:57 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5, I guessed, it was more pseudocode |
| 20:58 |
rubenwardy |
updated that script to include the guest -> Aaaaa123 change |
| 20:59 |
Fixer |
ckkk |
| 20:59 |
rubenwardy |
updated again |
| 20:59 |
Fixer |
python is not in win path? |
| 21:00 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: AttributeError: module 'urllib' has no attribute 'urlopen' |
| 21:00 |
rubenwardy |
#windows |
| 21:00 |
Fixer |
#yes |
| 21:00 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: please output the result |
| 21:01 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: to pastebin |
| 21:01 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: the script needs python 2 |
| 21:01 |
Fixer |
ckit, just run the script and show us (somebody) |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
also, iirc, some distros already dropping python2 support |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
huh |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
I swear I wrote it in python3 |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
poettering friendly distros |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
oh well |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: pastebin.com |
| 21:03 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4414c8553dda2857f4b0c98e2e9b55f4 |
| 21:03 |
rubenwardy |
Fixer ^ |
| 21:04 |
Fixer |
yay |
| 21:04 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: thanks |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
it's odd that the sorting is slightly off |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
I just checked, and I'm using the same algorithm |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
maybe a rounding issue |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
the server list uses python3 |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
maybe that makes a difference |
| 21:05 |
sfan5 |
>penalty -0 |
| 21:05 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 21:05 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 21:05 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: your script is inaccurate since 1/8 == 0 in py2 |
| 21:05 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 21:10 |
rubenwardy |
ok, updated to python 3 |
| 21:11 |
rubenwardy |
updated gist above |
| 21:11 |
rubenwardy |
updated source cod |
| 21:11 |
Fixer |
a.txt one? |
| 21:11 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 21:11 |
rubenwardy |
both gists are now updated |
| 21:11 |
rubenwardy |
note the a.txt one has more snippets below |
| 21:12 |
Fixer |
just test is protector hell |
| 21:12 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: shouldn't it contain guest stuff in b_pen.txt too? |
| 21:12 |
rubenwardy |
guests are counted as penalties |
| 21:12 |
rubenwardy |
but just less adding |
| 21:12 |
rubenwardy |
hmmmm |
| 21:13 |
sfan5 |
i think your script is still off somehow |
| 21:13 |
sfan5 |
sorting doesn't match, might just be changes in the meantime tho |
| 21:14 |
rubenwardy |
updated with guest penalty reporting |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
I'm scrolling down the list my script made, and I can't see any scores out of order |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
interesting |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
the order of that list is the one the server gives |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
I don't sort it |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
so IFS (IhrFussel's Server) is more PCMASTERRACE friendly right now? |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
and just test... |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
and free pizza |
| 21:17 |
sfan5 |
"penalty -0.875 guests" means there was a single guest, right? |
| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
if that's 7/8, yes |
| 21:17 |
sfan5 |
it is |
| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
!math calc 7/8 |
| 21:17 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: 0.875 |
| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
then year |
| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
*yeah |
| 21:18 |
IhrFussel |
Right now I can confirm that only 1 player is connected via mobile on my server...but try it with HT |
| 21:25 |
IhrFussel |
Again: My main problem is that servers that suddenly get many mobile users with such prefix names, are PUNISHED for something they cannot control or decide...right now the server list depends largely on RANDOMNESS |
| 21:25 |
IhrFussel |
I'm not sure if that's the goal |
| 21:25 |
sfan5 |
wrong |
| 21:26 |
sfan5 |
the single most important factor is amount of players right now |
| 21:26 |
sfan5 |
if lots of ""mobile guests"" join your server will still go up |
| 21:26 |
IhrFussel |
But a "guest" player will not get the full score in the server list which is my point |
| 21:28 |
IhrFussel |
And a few "guest" players vs a few "normal" players will bring the server score down nonetheless |
| 21:29 |
IhrFussel |
You PUNISH the server owners for THAT |
| 21:29 |
IhrFussel |
For allowing more mobile clients with prefix names |
| 21:30 |
sfan5 |
essentially yes |
| 21:30 |
sfan5 |
but just because you allow mobile clients doesn't mean your server can't ever get to the top |
| 21:35 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, you STILL punish the server owners for it...and you punish them wayy too much, that's why I suggested to lower the penalty at least if you are too stubborn to completely remove it and see mobile users the same as PC users |
| 21:36 |
sfan5 |
like i said lowering the penalty can be discussed |
| 21:36 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: script is working now on python 3.5 |
| 21:38 |
IhrFussel |
I edited my issue comment to include that: https://github.com/minetest/master-server/issues/17 |
| 21:38 |
Fixer |
free pizza server o.O |
| 21:39 |
Fixer |
just test o.O |
| 21:39 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: btw the regex in your script will need another minor update |
| 21:41 |
IhrFussel |
Changed issue title too |
| 21:47 |
Fixer |
free pizza spawn is horribly slow |
| 21:52 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/QEJEWOz.png |
| 21:52 |
Fixer |
kekeke |
| 21:52 |
Fixer |
(maybe) |
| 21:57 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5, updated :) |
| 21:57 |
sfan5 |
oh it logs that publicly, nice |
| 22:05 |
Fixer |
sfan5: anticheat warnings? |
| 22:06 |
Fixer |
are those built in? |
| 22:06 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 22:13 |
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