| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:16 |
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| 00:22 |
VanessaE |
IhrFussel: have you filed a bug report? |
| 00:30 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, Yes and it got the label "unconfirmed bug" which is why I linked 3 different videos now |
| 00:31 |
VanessaE |
"unconfirmed" means none of the core developers have been able to reproduce it (or perhaps no one has tried). |
| 00:31 |
VanessaE |
did you link your new video to the bug report? |
| 00:32 |
IhrFussel |
Yes and I added the steps to reproduce it as comment + I linked to 3 videos..one shows the glitch when standing still on the ground, the other shows standing still mid air and the 3rd one shows that it seems to be fixed when I stand at walls |
| 00:34 |
IhrFussel |
Yes I linked the recent video too now and I hope at least 1 core dev will find the time to try it out themselves (it doesn't likely happen to most since their view range is much higher than 20-30) |
| 00:39 |
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| 09:03 |
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| 09:08 |
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| 09:08 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 09:18 |
DS-minetest |
hi tenplus1 |
| 09:19 |
tenplus1 |
heyas :P |
| 09:20 |
tenplus1 |
http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/3d9f88f9-laziness-here-i-come.jpg |
| 09:33 |
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| 09:34 |
tenplus1 |
hi cx384 |
| 09:34 |
cx384 |
hello tenplus1 |
| 09:44 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:45 |
tenplus1 |
hi fixer |
| 10:12 |
Amaz |
Morning all :) |
| 10:12 |
tenplus1 |
hi Amaz |
| 10:12 |
Amaz |
Hello ten! |
| 10:13 |
Calinou |
hi :) |
| 10:13 |
tenplus1 |
hi Cal |
| 10:15 |
tenplus1 |
wait, what ??? I got one approval and it was immediately removed ?!?!?! https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543 |
| 10:17 |
Amaz |
Is it because Zeno isn't a MTG dev?? |
| 10:17 |
Amaz |
(I don't really follow MTG, so I may be completely wrong.) |
| 10:18 |
tenplus1 |
weird, if he wasn't how could he one approval it |
| 10:18 |
Amaz |
http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2017-06-07#i_4963824 |
| 10:19 |
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| 10:19 |
tenplus1 |
hi Darcidride |
| 10:19 |
tenplus1 |
ouch, he broke da rules |
| 10:19 |
Amaz |
I think that he has access to the repository, because he's a Minetest dev, but he's not technically a _game dev, and therefore, while he can add labels and such, he's not allowed to... |
| 10:19 |
Amaz |
Complicated :P |
| 10:20 |
Darcidride |
Hi everyone |
| 10:20 |
Amaz |
Hi Darcidride :) |
| 10:22 |
tenplus1 |
am kinda glad I dont hang out in -dev if that's the sorta thing that happens |
| 10:22 |
tenplus1 |
I just wanna make the game better |
| 10:24 |
paramat |
he just added an approval by mistake :] |
| 10:25 |
tenplus1 |
hi paramat |
| 10:26 |
tenplus1 |
cant we just add the 'creative' privelage already... many server owners would like such a feature and it gives a damn good use to the minetest.is_creative(name) <--- nothing uses name at the moment |
| 10:26 |
Shara |
I don't understand why it ever wasn't there :P |
| 10:26 |
tenplus1 |
we use it on Xanadu to reward builders and it works really well |
| 10:27 |
Shara |
It's such a basic thing, and quite vital in my opinion |
| 10:27 |
Shara |
We use it on DL as well. |
| 10:27 |
tenplus1 |
hi Shara |
| 10:28 |
Shara |
Hi :) |
| 10:33 |
paramat |
i'll look at it again, sorry for slow mtg dev, sofar is not around |
| 10:33 |
tenplus1 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543 |
| 10:37 |
paramat |
is it tested? |
| 10:37 |
tenplus1 |
yes, I've been running it on Xanadu |
| 10:37 |
tenplus1 |
no problems |
| 10:37 |
Shara |
Darklands also uses what might be a slightly older version |
| 10:38 |
tenplus1 |
I can issue 'creative' priv to anyone giving them access to creative inventory and unlimited placement |
| 10:38 |
Shara |
Again, no issues |
| 10:38 |
paramat |
and it looks like you addressed sofar's issue? |
| 10:38 |
tenplus1 |
what issue ? |
| 10:38 |
paramat |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543#issuecomment-277432165 |
| 10:39 |
tenplus1 |
ah yes... when they sign on with creative the get the appropriate inventory |
| 10:40 |
paramat |
the priv code is in creative mod so i assume this is what he was asking for? |
| 10:40 |
tenplus1 |
yes |
| 10:40 |
tenplus1 |
everything in creative mod |
| 10:40 |
paramat |
=1 |
| 10:40 |
paramat |
+1 |
| 10:40 |
paramat |
hehe |
| 10:40 |
tenplus1 |
it only adds 1 priv and amends 1 line.. it's not a huge pull |
| 10:40 |
tenplus1 |
but gives a ton of possibility for survival servers |
| 10:41 |
paramat |
the support from server owners means i +1, it's a good idea anyway |
| 10:41 |
paramat |
sorry it took a while |
| 10:41 |
tenplus1 |
thx dude, appreciated |
| 10:42 |
paramat |
sofar seems +0.5 |
| 10:43 |
tenplus1 |
1.5 is good enough :P |
| 10:43 |
paramat |
for you heh |
| 10:43 |
tenplus1 |
:) hopefully sfan5 will reconsider and re-add approval *hope* |
| 10:43 |
tenplus1 |
:3 |
| 10:43 |
Shara |
I almost abandoned the idea of DL when I found this priv was missing.... So I was just glad Ten had a mod for it |
| 10:46 |
paramat |
ah just saw the list of thumbs-up emoticons, missed that |
| 10:47 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 10:52 |
red-NaN |
tenplus1, we don't use math.round for PR apporval counts |
| 10:52 |
red-NaN |
we use math.floor |
| 10:52 |
tenplus1 |
*cough* math.round(pr + 0.5) |
| 10:53 |
red-NaN |
math.ceil(pr) |
| 10:53 |
tenplus1 |
ehehehe |
| 10:56 |
tenplus1 |
nom time :PP brb |
| 11:07 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: Zeno is not mtg dev, that was approved by mistake |
| 11:07 |
tenplus1 |
is ok |
| 11:16 |
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| 11:16 |
tenplus1 |
hi nathan |
| 11:16 |
NathanS21 |
hi tenplus1 |
| 11:30 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, not sure what it's like in MTG but in the Minetest repository even I can add approvals...shouldn't there be a way to prevent regular/non-member users from approving? |
| 11:31 |
tenplus1 |
I kinda thoguht if you were a dev in one project it would only allow you to do things to that one |
| 11:33 |
IhrFussel |
IIRC minetest and minetest_game aren't really separated but celeron55 said he would look into splitting them up in a few weeks when he finds more time |
| 11:34 |
red-NaN |
IhrFussel, github approvals != merge approvals |
| 11:34 |
red-NaN |
plus github approvals by a non-team member show up in a diffrent colour |
| 11:35 |
IhrFussel |
red-NaN, yes but why can regular users even aprrove then? Is there no setting to just allow it for members/devs? |
| 11:35 |
red-NaN |
to stop "+1" spam |
| 11:35 |
red-NaN |
and it's a larger sign of support then just adding a "+1" to the orginal post |
| 11:36 |
IhrFussel |
I understand the purpose of the feature, but in MT at least core devs don't want to see regular users approving |
| 11:37 |
red-NaN |
it's not a issue since it's evident that the approval is from a community member not a dev |
| 11:37 |
red-NaN |
I don't think it even makes the PR show up as "approved" |
| 11:37 |
IhrFussel |
Not exactly an issue but I saw a non-member approval somewhere and they were told to remove it cause it "confuses the core devs" |
| 11:38 |
red-NaN |
oh that was a diffrent issue |
| 11:38 |
red-NaN |
are you talking about the incident yesterday on -dev? |
| 11:38 |
red-NaN |
that was a minetest core dev accidently adding a "one approval" lable to a minetest game PR |
| 11:39 |
IhrFussel |
Nope what I mean was a few weeks ago...I also read the stuff about Zeno but I wasn't sure if he's a "regular user" in MTG |
| 11:39 |
red-NaN |
minetest uses lables to track the number of approvals |
| 11:39 |
* red-NaN |
shrugs |
| 11:40 |
tenplus1 |
hi red |
| 11:40 |
IhrFussel |
Yes I know they use labels...but still they don't want regulars to add approvals cause of confusion so I wonder why they don't simply restrict the approvals (if it's possible) |
| 11:40 |
red-NaN |
well an approval is meant to indicate that you read the source code and it looks good to you, not just agreeing with the idea |
| 11:41 |
tenplus1 |
+1 |
| 11:41 |
red-NaN |
well maybe they could restrict approvals to contributers then |
| 11:41 |
red-NaN |
that will still allow people to help devs with code review |
| 11:43 |
IhrFussel |
Aren't regulars even "allowed" to review source code? I think I only saw core devs and sometimes contributors doing it |
| 11:43 |
IhrFussel |
Are regulars* |
| 11:44 |
red-NaN |
well I would say anyone is |
| 11:44 |
tenplus1 |
hi lumidify |
| 11:44 |
Shara |
Telling people they can't comment about the code would be silly. |
| 11:44 |
red-NaN |
but I can't say that everyones review will be taken seriouslu |
| 11:44 |
lumidify |
Hi tenplus1 |
| 11:45 |
red-NaN |
seriously* |
| 11:45 |
tenplus1 |
comments and thumbs up are welcome by all... |
| 11:45 |
tenplus1 |
approvals by those who can incorporate changes into mt and has looked at code |
| 11:45 |
Shara |
Whether or not devs pay any attention to a certain person's reviews or opinions though is going to depend on the person and the quality of what they produce |
| 11:47 |
Shara |
If someone hasn't got a clue about code, then them commenting on it won't help anyone much. But clearly some contributors do have a clue, or they wouldn't contribute so much |
| 11:47 |
IhrFussel |
RE: Shadow glitch ... I left yesterday with the glitch happening...and guess what? It persists...I have one more suspicious candidate for the cause "wieldview" mod but why would it cause such a major glitch? |
| 11:55 |
tenplus1 |
wieldview only updates the textures for the player model, it shouldnt affect lighting or shadows |
| 11:55 |
IhrFussel |
Nope, it still happens...then I have no clue must be in-engine likely...EVEN after server restart it glitches... |
| 11:56 |
tenplus1 |
lemmie run a session and see if it happens |
| 11:56 |
IhrFussel |
And it stops glitching as soon as I get close to some kind of wall...that sounds like a collision detection problem |
| 11:58 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, make sure your view range is 20-30 and you fly into ungenerated map areas (that's how it happens most relaibly) |
| 11:58 |
IhrFussel |
reliably* |
| 11:59 |
tenplus1 |
seems ok here, using wieldview as well.... do you have any voxelmanip mods running ? |
| 12:00 |
IhrFussel |
mesecons, nether and mobs |
| 12:00 |
IhrFussel |
I grepped for "voxelmanip" |
| 12:01 |
tenplus1 |
light levels for wielditem's brightness reset to 0 in unloaded/ignored areas of map |
| 12:01 |
tenplus1 |
some voxelmanip mods can mess with light levels in the map |
| 12:03 |
tenplus1 |
try a fresh world with all mods disabled (except 3d_armor and wieldview) and see if it still happens |
| 12:03 |
tenplus1 |
I only see wielditem darken when I fly into a new area and once it generates it's back to normal... |
| 12:04 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, you need to watch it a little longer it only happens every 10 - 20 secs once (the blinking) |
| 12:05 |
IhrFussel |
I removed mobs, nether and mesecons...still the same |
| 12:05 |
tenplus1 |
I've had it running 10 mins now and nothing out of the ordinart |
| 12:05 |
tenplus1 |
what gfx card u got ? |
| 12:05 |
IhrFussel |
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 |
| 12:06 |
IhrFussel |
But why would it be a GPU issue if it only happens in certain situations on the map? |
| 12:07 |
IhrFussel |
I will try to run the server with no mods enabled (except for areas) |
| 12:07 |
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| 12:07 |
tenplus1 |
hi talus |
| 12:10 |
IhrFussel |
NOPE, it still happens with NO custom mods enabled...that confirms to me it's an engine bug |
| 12:11 |
tenplus1 |
is this on a fresh world ????? |
| 12:11 |
tenplus1 |
has to be a new world otherwise voxelmanip light issues can still affect it |
| 12:20 |
IhrFussel |
No it was on my server world...can't reproduce it in local game right now, but I know for a fact that the exact same glitch didn't happen in 0.4.15-dev before May |
| 12:21 |
tenplus1 |
it definitely sounds like voxelmanip lighting issues... I run caverealms_lite on Xanadu and it has the odd light issue when standing in certain spots |
| 12:22 |
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| 12:22 |
tenplus1 |
hi RobbieF |
| 12:22 |
RobbieF |
Tenplus1 nice to see you! |
| 12:22 |
tenplus1 |
hows things ? |
| 12:22 |
Calinou |
hi RobbieF :) |
| 12:23 |
RobbieF |
Doing great--a busy couple days (a little too busy) but doing well thanks. How about you? |
| 12:23 |
RobbieF |
Hi Calinou! Been a while. How you been? |
| 12:23 |
tenplus1 |
tinkering with lucky blocks :P |
| 12:23 |
tenplus1 |
thinking of new one's to add |
| 12:23 |
IhrFussel |
STOP it happened in singleplayer! Engine bug confirmed |
| 12:23 |
Calinou |
RobbieF: currently in an internship, but it's going meh so far, I feel |
| 12:23 |
Calinou |
IhrFussel: Half-Life Bug confirmed? |
| 12:23 |
Calinou |
;) |
| 12:24 |
RobbieF |
aww... well, make the best of it, as well as you can Calinou. |
| 12:28 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, you need to fly FAST through ungenerated areas with noclip ENABLED...that's when it happens...also it barely blinks in singleplayer because there is no lag |
| 12:29 |
tenplus1 |
that's exactly what I've been doing and it only blinks because player is standing inside ignore block with light levels of 0 before it's generated |
| 12:29 |
IhrFussel |
Noo I will upload another video of singleplayer showing that I stand in midair for 1 minute and it continues to blink sometimes |
| 12:29 |
tenplus1 |
it doesnt happen when standing still UNLESS inside of a glitched light area from a voxelmanip issue |
| 12:30 |
tenplus1 |
I was flying for 10 whole minutes and never happened once |
| 12:30 |
tenplus1 |
while standing still |
| 12:30 |
IhrFussel |
Is your view range at 20? |
| 12:30 |
tenplus1 |
yeh |
| 12:30 |
IhrFussel |
I will show you the video as soon as it finished rendering |
| 12:31 |
tenplus1 |
ok |
| 12:31 |
IhrFussel |
But you'll need to watch VERY closely as it only happens for ~ 0.1 secs (since there is no serverstep lag in SP) |
| 12:32 |
tenplus1 |
I tested in a local server, not singleplayer |
| 12:32 |
IhrFussel |
I'll watch it first and then tell you a timestamp to skip to |
| 12:33 |
IhrFussel |
It doesn't matter..it happens on my 0.4.16-dev server and in singleplayer |
| 12:33 |
paramat |
so still happens in singleplayer with no mods? |
| 12:33 |
IhrFussel |
Yes |
| 12:33 |
paramat |
weird |
| 12:33 |
tenplus1 |
gotta test it in a fresh world tho |
| 12:34 |
IhrFussel |
But the time it gets dark DEPENDS on the server_step setting |
| 12:34 |
IhrFussel |
It was a new world |
| 12:34 |
tenplus1 |
kk |
| 12:35 |
IhrFussel |
http://ihrfussels-server.tk/mt4.mp4 @ 21 secs |
| 12:39 |
tenplus1 |
it happens every 20 seconds or |
| 12:40 |
tenplus1 |
and that was on a fresh world with no mods ? |
| 12:41 |
IhrFussel |
Just the default mods AFAIK |
| 12:41 |
IhrFussel |
Yep minetest_game only |
| 12:42 |
IhrFussel |
I could try to play without MTG |
| 12:42 |
tenplus1 |
does it happen when you increase view range to 40 ? |
| 12:44 |
IhrFussel |
Right now it didn't stop to glitch but increasing viewing range to 250 doesn't fix a *current* glitch at least |
| 12:47 |
tenplus1 |
do you have shaders on or off? |
| 12:47 |
IhrFussel |
Off |
| 12:47 |
tenplus1 |
same... it really doesnt happen here... |
| 12:47 |
tenplus1 |
dunno if running old opengl might have issue |
| 12:49 |
IhrFussel |
That makes no sense, why does it stop glitching at walls? |
| 12:50 |
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| 12:50 |
IhrFussel |
An OpenGL issue would likely be persistent and not depend on ingame pos, OpenGL doesn't even know what an ingame pos is |
| 12:54 |
IhrFussel |
It MAY be possible that my computer is just old enough to NOTICE the bug...but a bug is still a bug and it prevents me from enjopying the game properly since it makes me STOP every time it happens |
| 12:54 |
tenplus1 |
can you show your minetest.conf file in a pastebin link plz |
| 12:56 |
IhrFussel |
Sure...I don't think it's related though since my local game and my server use completely different config files |
| 12:56 |
red-NaN |
when did this bug start appearing? |
| 12:59 |
IhrFussel |
In 0.4.15-dev...I think between Apr and May |
| 12:59 |
IhrFussel |
https://pastebin.com/q6iiftsA |
| 12:59 |
Stone-Talus |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwsem2Lxvb0 |
| 13:00 |
IhrFussel |
And yes I have the view range, max saved blocks etc at very low values but those never caused issues before |
| 13:01 |
red-NaN |
well if you could try and bisect it |
| 13:01 |
red-NaN |
if you can figure out the approximate time at which it apperead and/or have a lot of free time |
| 13:03 |
IhrFussel |
IF it is caused by a mistake in a PR then it's likely one about lighting/collision detection or mapblock save/load changes..I can try to filter those out a bit later |
| 13:04 |
tenplus1 |
server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 20 .. could be unloading every 20 seconds and renewing light levels for your sword |
| 13:04 |
tenplus1 |
change to 30 and see if it happens every 30 seconds |
| 13:05 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, that's the local game config..server says server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 300 |
| 13:06 |
IhrFussel |
But I could try to increase all CLIENT settings and see if it still happens |
| 13:06 |
tenplus1 |
check that one 1st... |
| 13:08 |
IhrFussel |
30 is too little to notice a difference..I'll try 60 |
| 13:09 |
tenplus1 |
in the mp3 you showed it would darken every 20 seconds... setting to 30 would let you see at least if it happened every 30 |
| 13:11 |
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| 13:11 |
tenplus1 |
hi octacian |
| 13:11 |
octacian |
hey tenplus1 :D |
| 13:12 |
IhrFussel |
Nope still happens every 10 - 20 secs |
| 13:13 |
tenplus1 |
only other 20 second time I see is the server_map_save_interval = 20 ... but that shouldnt affect light levels |
| 13:14 |
IhrFussel |
I set that to 60...still every 10 - 20 secs |
| 13:16 |
red-NaN |
could you see if fps_max has an effect on it? |
| 13:17 |
IhrFussel |
I can say so much: The time it REMAINS black depends on the LOAD...if I fly into heavy terrain it stays black for longer...yes I'll try that red-NaN |
| 13:18 |
red-NaN |
huh the craftitem being black inside unload terrain is normal enough |
| 13:18 |
red-NaN |
but you need noclip for that to happen |
| 13:20 |
IhrFussel |
red-NaN, yes the glitch is triggered by flying through nodes with noclip it seems...and then sometimes it just seems to THINK that you're still underground or inside a solid node every few secs |
| 13:23 |
IhrFussel |
And it stops glitching as soon as you're NEAR solid nodes (like a wall) |
| 13:23 |
tenplus1 |
is on_flood set for 'air' ? |
| 13:24 |
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| 13:24 |
tenplus1 |
hi twoelk |
| 13:24 |
twoelk |
hi :-) |
| 13:25 |
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| 13:29 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:29 |
tenplus1 |
wb paramat |
| 13:31 |
paramat |
^ please disable auto greetings for me |
| 13:31 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 13:36 |
paramat |
Ihrfussel 'client_mapblock_limit = 15' this is far too low, not sure if it affects bug though |
| 13:36 |
IhrFussel |
paramat, I increased it now to 30 and will see if it helps with the glitch |
| 13:37 |
paramat |
30 is still far too low :] |
| 13:38 |
tenplus1 |
Lucky Blocks updated with a few fixes and new blocks :) |
| 13:38 |
paramat |
27 = 3x3x3 blocks, the client can only store mesh data to a distance of 24 nodes from a player |
| 13:39 |
paramat |
default is 5000 which uses up to about 1GB RAM |
| 13:42 |
IhrFussel |
It is very likely a client setting causing it since none of my other active players experienced it yet AFAIK |
| 13:42 |
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| 13:43 |
IhrFussel |
Plus it happens in singleplayer |
| 13:43 |
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| 13:44 |
paramat |
server_map_save_interval is matybe too high? default is 5s |
| 13:44 |
paramat |
*maybe |
| 13:45 |
IhrFussel |
It's server_map_save_interval = 15.3 on my server |
| 13:46 |
nerzhul |
what is your map backend ? |
| 13:46 |
IhrFussel |
SQLite |
| 13:46 |
paramat |
hm i'm not sure what is optimal, but i suspect higher interval means a heavier load |
| 13:46 |
nerzhul |
if you have I/O problems when writing your database on a server, use postgresql |
| 13:47 |
tenplus1 |
would converting an sql to postgresql be an advantage ? |
| 13:47 |
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| 13:47 |
tenplus1 |
hi Jordach |
| 13:47 |
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| 13:48 |
red-NaN |
We should consider banning mods that use precompiled bytecode from the forum |
| 13:48 |
red-NaN |
it undermines the whole point of mod security |
| 13:48 |
tenplus1 |
o.O which mods use that ? |
| 13:48 |
red-NaN |
that anticheat mod by rnd |
| 13:49 |
red-NaN |
I mean the whole sitution is kinda ridicles |
| 13:49 |
red-NaN |
the second result on google for "Lua JIT decompiler" successfully decompiles the code |
| 13:51 |
paramat |
IhrFussel 'client_unload_unused_data_timeout = 30' seems too low also, default is 10 mins |
| 13:51 |
red-NaN |
the decomplier is even nice enough to recover the names of locals and lay the code out nicely |
| 13:52 |
paramat |
i have a weird feeling you have turned down all your settings too far to the point where it causes problems |
| 13:52 |
tenplus1 |
agreed |
| 13:53 |
red-NaN |
https://paste.ee/p/4QvmW |
| 13:53 |
IhrFussel |
But it worked before with the exact same settings...so some commit must've raised the "required settings to run fine" |
| 13:53 |
paramat |
'trees = true' 'caves = true' 'dungeons = true' have no effect |
| 13:53 |
paramat |
yeah maybe |
| 13:54 |
IhrFussel |
Like I said the last compiled version without that glitch was Apr 24 |
| 13:55 |
IhrFussel |
But since I only update my server version every 1 - 2 months I can't tell when exactly it started happening |
| 13:56 |
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octacian joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:56 |
octacian |
Is it possible to change the transparency of an entity? Specifically, the player |
| 13:57 |
tenplus1 |
entity textures are either fully transparant or not... no inbetween |
| 13:57 |
paramat |
i think even the android app has settings higher than this |
| 13:57 |
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corvus_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:57 |
octacian |
Oh well, was hoping to be able to extend my invisibility mod to allow setting to a specific level of transparency |
| 13:58 |
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| 13:58 |
tenplus1 |
you have an invisibility mod also ? |
| 13:58 |
tenplus1 |
hi lisac |
| 13:58 |
red-NaN |
!tell lisac hi |
| 13:58 |
ShadowBot |
red-NaN: O.K. |
| 14:00 |
tenplus1 |
wb raven |
| 14:00 |
Raven262 |
Thanks, tenplus1 |
| 14:00 |
Raven262 |
That was connection problem, not a leave of mine actually. |
| 14:03 |
red-NaN |
!tell red-NaN test |
| 14:03 |
ShadowBot |
red-NaN: O.K. |
| 14:07 |
paramat |
IhrFussel 'max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 2' possibly too low. i would try the default android configuration and see if the bug is fixed, or even the default desktop config (but with client_mapblock_limit reduced to match your available client RAM) |
| 14:11 |
IhrFussel |
active_block_range = 1 max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 5 active_object_send_range_blocks = 1 max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = 80 max_block_send_distance = 4 max_block_generate_distance = 5 |
| 14:11 |
IhrFussel |
Those are the server settings |
| 14:15 |
paramat |
since it happens in your local singleplayer game best work with your singleplayer config for now |
| 14:18 |
sfan5 |
what kind of machine do you run that server one? |
| 14:18 |
sfan5 |
on* |
| 14:23 |
octacian |
Why is it seemingly impossible to entirely disable the sneak glitch? |
| 14:23 |
octacian |
tenplus1: And yes, I have an invisibility mod. You even commented on it once :P |
| 14:24 |
octacian |
So, I've tried disabling new_move and sneak_glitch, however, it just causes the game to revert back to the original sneak glitch due to the fact that for some ridiculous reason both physics settings seem to mean the same though. Any thoughts? |
| 14:24 |
octacian |
(I'm trying to make a fence that you can't jump over) |
| 14:24 |
tenplus1 |
lol, must have forgotten :) ahahah |
| 14:24 |
octacian |
heh |
| 14:25 |
tenplus1 |
if you wanna keep players out of an area make fence 2 high |
| 14:29 |
paramat |
disabling 'new move' means you are now using the old move code which includes sneak ladders and sneak jump |
| 14:30 |
tenplus1 |
is the falling damage bug been fixed for that one ? |
| 14:30 |
paramat |
oh fences with a tall collisionbox cause sneak-jump to work when it should not |
| 14:31 |
paramat |
there's an issue for that |
| 14:31 |
tenplus1 |
w00t |
| 14:32 |
paramat |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5861 |
| 14:32 |
Fixer |
sfan5: is new luajit-2.1.0-beta3 compiled with GC64 enabled? |
| 14:32 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 14:33 |
Jordach |
*autistic screeching* |
| 14:33 |
Jordach |
GC64 needs to be default for 64bit builts |
| 14:33 |
Jordach |
-t +d |
| 14:34 |
sfan5 |
i've had it segfault when using lots of memory here |
| 14:34 |
Jordach |
hitting the OOM cap at literally fucking 52MB is piss poor for a VM that wants performance |
| 14:34 |
sfan5 |
wouldn't want to put that into production |
| 14:34 |
Jordach |
label em experimental |
| 14:34 |
Calinou |
when you label something experimental, it actually triples its user count :^) |
| 14:35 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 14:35 |
Jordach |
i can hear the sarcasm, Calinou |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
"Built-in ads - EXPERIMENTAL" |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
"In-app purchases - EXPERIMENTAL" |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
there, now we can make money |
| 14:35 |
paramat |
the displayed memory use at OOM is not the memory use that causes OOM apparently |
| 14:35 |
octacian |
tenplus1: They can still get over it using sneak glitch |
| 14:36 |
octacian |
paramat: I tried setting both new_move and sneak_glitch to false, I even tried them one-by-one |
| 14:36 |
Fixer |
Jordach: i'm curious myself, why the fuck it OOMs at 20-50mb of lua mem used? Last time I tested Dreambuilder mem use was 80mb at most and then it just dies with lua oom |
| 14:36 |
Jordach |
Fixer, LuaJIT problems |
| 14:37 |
Jordach |
i've got specialist mapgen hooks as part pf Solar Plains which takes a huge amount of memory for bizzare reasons |
| 14:37 |
Fixer |
dreambuilder is unusable for me on windows, 5-10 min of simple walk and it is over |
| 14:37 |
octacian |
Wait, I see. So for some reason the sneak glitch still works specifically on nodes with a higher collision box. Ohk |
| 14:38 |
sfan5 |
just use the noluajit build |
| 14:38 |
sfan5 |
it's not *that* slow |
| 14:38 |
twoelk |
Fixer: same problem if you use a client without LuaJIT? |
| 14:38 |
Jordach |
just because i've got a pretty good IPC on my CPU |
| 14:38 |
Jordach |
doesn't mean i should use the slower option |
| 14:38 |
nerzhul |
dreambuilder is relatively slow and requires some architecture rewrite :p |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
Jordach: darkage mod that I love coupled with tons of other mods triggered almost instant on_generated lua OOM on game start on server subgame i tested, it is crazy |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
sfan5: yeah, i'm using it |
| 14:39 |
Jordach |
can't wait for LuaJIT to go GC64 |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
sfan5: you still feel the slowness of it particularly in unified inventory |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
Jordach: it is already GC64... but smth is buggy |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
beta3 includes it |
| 14:40 |
sfan5 |
gc64 is not enabled by default |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
i even managed to use >2 gb of mem with it, but after 20-30 seconds it just crashes for some reason |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
luajit related crash |
| 14:41 |
Fixer |
nerzhul: architecture rewrite? lol, it is modpack |
| 14:41 |
tenplus1 |
is ther eno way to increase the luajit limit ? |
| 14:41 |
Jordach |
no way |
| 14:41 |
Jordach |
minetest should switch to a python library |
| 14:42 |
Fixer |
meanwhile i'm very triggered by homedecor modpack external dependancy on unified dyes :( |
| 14:42 |
Jordach |
Kappa |
| 14:42 |
Fixer |
Jordach: Pythha |
| 14:42 |
Fixer |
modpack is supposed to contain everything inside |
| 14:42 |
twoelk |
so darkage and dreambuilder have some troublesome code in common? |
| 14:42 |
tenplus1 |
agreed... the reason am using such an older version of homedecor on servert |
| 14:42 |
Jordach |
i will mention this |
| 14:43 |
Jordach |
VManip has titanic memory leaks even with LOCAL |
| 14:43 |
Fixer |
twoelk: i can name two: darkage and technic_worldgen, both generate ores and other stuff at mapgen and this often causes OOM |
| 14:44 |
tenplus1 |
darkage needs to convert it's ores to the default oregen/mapgen |
| 14:44 |
twoelk |
is darkage still alive? |
| 14:44 |
Thomas-S |
yes, it is. Here: https://bitbucket.org/adrido/darkage |
| 14:45 |
tenplus1 |
I would have thought darkage and castle mod would have merged since it's almost same nodes... and fixed the ores |
| 14:45 |
Jordach |
meanwhile MC doesn't give a sngle fuck about RAM usage provided you've got as much as it needs |
| 14:46 |
tenplus1 |
lolol |
| 14:46 |
tenplus1 |
mc almost killed my net-top pc |
| 14:46 |
paramat |
Jordach are you using these memory use optimisations? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16043 |
| 14:46 |
Jordach |
i legit give it 8-12GB of RAM to avoid the dreaded GC thread bug |
| 14:46 |
Calinou |
Jordach: do you play it with mods? |
| 14:46 |
Calinou |
unmodded, the default JVM settings should work fine |
| 14:46 |
Jordach |
Calinou, 1.10x |
| 14:47 |
Calinou |
no need to set -Xms over 2 GB really |
| 14:47 |
Calinou |
or -Xmx |
| 14:47 |
Jordach |
i like mods |
| 14:47 |
Calinou |
(plus, it'll break things sometimes, I remember trying huge values and it crashed on start) |
| 14:47 |
Calinou |
VoxelMap and OptiFine are all you need :D |
| 14:47 |
paramat |
vmanip does not have a memory leak as far as we know, that's different to 'using lots of memory' |
| 14:52 |
twoelk |
maybe someone knowledgable of the current abbilities and standards of mapgen in minetest core should review the most popular mods that might use old mapgen techniques and place issues that make the modders aware of the possible solution ;-) |
| 14:52 |
tenplus1 |
good idea |
| 14:54 |
tenplus1 |
so far caverealms_lite hasnt given an oom error so must be using newer techniques :P https://github.com/Zeno-/caverealms_lite |
| 15:02 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: have fun with some crashes :^) https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/minetest-0.4.16-gc64-win64.7z |
| 15:04 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, modpack != good code |
| 15:04 |
nerzhul |
when server lag on servetthread it's in 95% cases because the on_step callback is slow due to too many events for 1 step |
| 15:04 |
nerzhul |
modders who wants many features should understand to dispatch their events |
| 15:05 |
tenplus1 |
that's why I put timers on on_step so it's not running all the time |
| 15:06 |
nerzhul |
tenplus1, yes |
| 15:07 |
Jordach |
ofuk techmoan video |
| 15:09 |
Jordach |
i'm really tempted to re-write the Main Menu to not use FSTK |
| 15:11 |
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RubenBot joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:11 |
Calinou |
just theme the Irrlicht GUI, I believe SuperTuxKart has done it |
| 15:11 |
Jordach |
Calinou, you underestimate my power |
| 15:11 |
Calinou |
also make font_size automatically adjust with screen resolution... |
| 15:11 |
Calinou |
why is that not done in 2017 ^ |
| 15:11 |
tenplus1 |
+1 |
| 15:12 |
Calinou |
on my desktop, I use font_size like 25, and mono_font_size like 23 |
| 15:12 |
Calinou |
(need to check again) |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
if you're rewriting things, I suggest separating logic from the views |
| 15:12 |
Calinou |
the default font is tiny even for 1920x1080, and this is 2560x1440 |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
ie: mod logic should not be in tab_mods or whatever |
| 15:12 |
Jordach |
Calinou, i also have a friggin ultrawide |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
it should be in a separate "class" which knows nothing about formspecs |
| 15:13 |
rubenwardy |
be warned that octacian is also working on the mainmenu (the mod part, more specifically) |
| 15:13 |
octacian |
I'm also working on a few other parts. Not just mods. Subgames, textures packs, configure. :rofl: |
| 15:14 |
octacian |
Jordach: If you rewrite the main menu to not use fstk, I'd personally be really happy :D |
| 15:14 |
* tenplus1 |
adds a pull to change main menu to comic sans 14 |
| 15:14 |
octacian |
I've considered doing it myself, but won't have time for a while. |
| 15:14 |
Calinou |
we could switch the default to Droid Sans, too |
| 15:15 |
Calinou |
Liberation Sans is a bit... boring |
| 15:15 |
Calinou |
(ultimately, it's a metric-compatible Arial) |
| 15:15 |
Calinou |
(which is not exactly the best-looking font today) |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
lets switch to comic sans ms |
| 15:15 |
rubenwardy |
something like sfinv would be nice for the main menu. Much simpler and cleaner |
| 15:16 |
octacian |
I'd like a tab-less main menu personally. Particularly for Android |
| 15:16 |
rubenwardy |
sfinv is tabless |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
it's designed so that you can replace the navigation with something other than tabs |
| 15:17 |
octacian |
Really? |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
using make_formspec |
| 15:17 |
octacian |
I see. |
| 15:17 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, was thinking of allowing redefinition of the mainmenu |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
it just defaults to tabs, as that's the current MT way |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
that too, Jordach |
| 15:17 |
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DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
does fstk allow redefinition of pages easily? |
| 15:17 |
Jordach |
*no* |
| 15:17 |
octacian |
Yes, if subgames to redefine the main menu that would be really useful |
| 15:17 |
Jordach |
it's a monolithic kernel, so to speak |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
ew |
| 15:18 |
tenplus1 |
hi DS-minetest |
| 15:18 |
DS-minetest |
hi tenplus1 |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
my intent with sfinv has always been to eventually port it to the main menu |
| 15:18 |
* tenplus1 |
just noticed that his gfx card (nvidia ion.2) is 6 years old already :) eheh |
| 15:19 |
Jordach |
my GPU is almost 1 year old (XFX RX 480 Reference) |
| 15:19 |
octacian |
Well, if someone doesn't do those main menu things soon, just know that I will :P |
| 15:21 |
rubenwardy |
it's not high on my todo list currently |
| 15:21 |
octacian |
Until it gets done, Android won't be very nice overall though |
| 15:25 |
tenplus1 |
http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/2ec55bea-it-feels-like-you-don-t-carrot-all.jpg |
| 15:37 |
rubenwardy |
have you voted, tenplus1? :) |
| 15:37 |
tenplus1 |
uk election ? |
| 15:37 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, you're Scottish, right? |
| 15:37 |
tenplus1 |
yeah... and no... dont trust any of the parties |
| 15:38 |
rubenwardy |
neither do I |
| 15:38 |
tenplus1 |
[x] None of the above |
| 15:38 |
rubenwardy |
have you at least spoiled your ballet in that case? |
| 15:38 |
rubenwardy |
it's better than not voting |
| 15:38 |
rubenwardy |
assuming they count spoiled ballets accurately |
| 15:38 |
tenplus1 |
heh... the illusion of free choice :P |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
it is |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
with a spoiled ballet, they at least get an indication of how many people are disillisioned |
| 15:40 |
tenplus1 |
hence the [x] None of the above :PPPPPPP |
| 15:40 |
rubenwardy |
ah, kk |
| 15:40 |
tenplus1 |
it's the same as always, they promise the world and then refuse to do anything... |
| 15:41 |
rubenwardy |
or with the conservatives, they promise the worse and still do it, whilst still breaking promises |
| 15:41 |
* tenplus1 |
flies to Mars |
| 15:50 |
paramat |
they're not exactly equally as bad obviously, so best to vote for the least evil, otherwise you waste your little bit of influence, because unfortunately 'none of the above' is not an option and is counted as 'spoiled' |
| 15:50 |
tenplus1 |
ooh, firefox tweaks really help :) memory usage has stabilized around 700mb and I'm on youtube playing vids |
| 15:51 |
paramat |
(it's not an option because that option would win hehe) |
| 15:52 |
twoelk |
I helped counting votes in the last local election - people do get pretty creative in expressing their <non of the above> votes |
| 15:53 |
tenplus1 |
I kinda wish the "Raving Looney Party" was still a thing... would vote for them just to upset the balance |
| 15:55 |
paramat |
i don't 'trust' any of them either. but if you don't use the tiny influence you have then you are stating 'i don't care about anything' which is obviously not true i'm sure |
| 15:56 |
twoelk |
we had the pirates party get pretty popular a few years back - they got into local parlament and got confrated with political reality - they pretty much were voted out of everything this time |
| 15:56 |
tenplus1 |
shame |
| 15:57 |
rubenwardy |
spoiling your vote isn't the same as not voting, it's stating you don't like the candidates rather than you don't care |
| 15:57 |
tenplus1 |
I'd love to have a proper working forum in britain... 12 people from all walks of life changed each year instead of parties |
| 15:58 |
rubenwardy |
I didn't spoil my vote however |
| 15:58 |
Jordach |
sfan5, testing GC64 |
| 15:58 |
Jordach |
HOLY SHIT |
| 15:58 |
tenplus1 |
? |
| 15:58 |
paramat |
ruben yeah i know, but that's how it is interpreted |
| 15:58 |
sfan5 |
did it crash yet |
| 15:58 |
Jordach |
not even during mapgen |
| 15:58 |
Jordach |
when doing trees |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
paramat, only a moron would interpret it that way - why would you bother to turn up to vote if you didn't care? |
| 15:59 |
Jordach |
sfan5, it's doing mapgen even faster than without GC64 |
| 15:59 |
tenplus1 |
any disadvantages in using GC64 ??? |
| 16:00 |
paramat |
'interpreted by the state' |
| 16:00 |
Jordach |
can crash randomly |
| 16:00 |
Jordach |
as in. not finished JIT compiler |
| 16:00 |
tenplus1 |
damn |
| 16:00 |
Jordach |
but Solar Plains runs fine |
| 16:00 |
sfan5 |
you're better of using noluajit if you can accept the speed disadvantage |
| 16:01 |
paramat |
'spoiled' also includes those who just made a huge mess or crossed too many boxes, it has no democratic message and is not counted as 'no confidence' |
| 16:01 |
Jordach |
sfan5, GC64 is so fast INTRO fails to activate properly |
| 16:01 |
Jordach |
at a whopping 1:2 chance of not working at all |
| 16:02 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: s/fast/broken/ |
| 16:02 |
paramat |
.. so it's a waste of your tiny bit of power, which is a shame |
| 16:02 |
tenplus1 |
-.- |
| 16:02 |
Jordach |
trying to find the forests |
| 16:02 |
Jordach |
those usually crash JIT |
| 16:04 |
Jordach |
108 trees grown after: 0.13s |
| 16:04 |
Jordach |
98 trees grown after: 0.13s |
| 16:04 |
Jordach |
would usually take 1-2 seconds on regular 32bit JIT |
| 16:04 |
tenplus1 |
nice |
| 16:04 |
Jordach |
or crash JIT directly |
| 16:04 |
Jordach |
average treegen time is 0.02s |
| 16:06 |
Jordach |
https://gist.github.com/Jordach/b94e3b43f88a8a8d74749b85185ec81a |
| 16:06 |
Jordach |
statistics |
| 16:08 |
Jordach |
sfan5, got a link to a normie build with JIT |
| 16:09 |
Jordach |
not GC64 |
| 16:09 |
sfan5 |
official win64 |
| 16:09 |
Shara |
I think I already hate CSM, but not for any of the reasons people mentioned so far... |
| 16:10 |
* tenplus1 |
wants a server switch to disable CSM completely for client-side also |
| 16:10 |
Shara |
Sick of seeing colour code garbage spamming my server's IRC channel. :( |
| 16:10 |
red-NaN |
Shara, so why did you join the club? |
| 16:11 |
red-NaN |
Shara, update your IRC mod |
| 16:11 |
Shara |
It's been updated to cope with this lunacy then? |
| 16:11 |
Shara |
I'm actually going to start banning players who use that mod otherwise |
| 16:11 |
red-NaN |
I made a PR to fix that ages ago, even before CSM was allowed to send chat |
| 16:11 |
rubenwardy |
Shara, make a mod to filter it out |
| 16:11 |
rubenwardy |
what's the escape for color? |
| 16:12 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: i think average time per tree might be better |
| 16:12 |
red-NaN |
rubenwardy, minetest includes a function to strip colours already |
| 16:12 |
Shara |
rubenwardy: I'm tired of making mods to deal with things like this. |
| 16:12 |
rubenwardy |
ah, ok |
| 16:12 |
red-NaN |
Shara, just update the mod |
| 16:12 |
Shara |
red-NaN: YEs, will later thanks. |
| 16:12 |
red-NaN |
or mannually apply the change I made |
| 16:12 |
Shara |
Though I also have issues of players who think it's cool to type in black so no one can read them |
| 16:12 |
Jordach |
67 trees grown after: 0.10s |
| 16:12 |
Jordach |
:thinking: |
| 16:13 |
Jordach |
win64 |
| 16:13 |
Jordach |
no GC64 |
| 16:13 |
Jordach |
95 trees grown after: 0.12s |
| 16:13 |
Shara |
red-NaN: Is there a way to make a CSM mod to choose what colour you see for everything, instead of seeing what other people choose? |
| 16:13 |
Shara |
That would be much nicer... |
| 16:14 |
red-NaN |
Shara, chat6 |
| 16:14 |
Shara |
I don't want my chat looking like a rainbow. :) |
| 16:14 |
Jordach |
sfan5, from fly-over mapgen testing: seems to be like 5% speed boost |
| 16:14 |
Shara |
chat6? |
| 16:14 |
red-NaN |
see that for an example |
| 16:14 |
red-NaN |
Shara, search github for that |
| 16:15 |
* Shara |
adds to endless list |
| 16:17 |
Shara |
I finally have time to work on mods again, but it's scary to realise just how many mods that means working on |
| 16:18 |
Fuchs |
hope the exams went well, then :) |
| 16:18 |
Shara |
Fuchs: Thank you. Got a good feeling about them at least :) |
| 16:18 |
tenplus1 |
especially with latest changes |
| 16:18 |
Fuchs |
good :) |
| 16:18 |
tenplus1 |
<fingers crossed> for results shara |
| 16:19 |
Shara |
And don't worry. Doing more with that fox mob is still on my to do list :) |
| 16:20 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: nvidia ion.2 is hardly a videocard |
| 16:20 |
Shara |
Thanks Ten :) |
| 16:20 |
tenplus1 |
I like my wee net-top and it's video card :) has done me proud for years |
| 16:24 |
Shara |
Oh lovely. Now someone playing with the hi spam mod on my server. |
| 16:24 |
Shara |
Can we please get a way to just outright block CSM? |
| 16:25 |
Shara |
It is giving me nothing but headaches. |
| 16:25 |
tenplus1 |
+10000000... server owners need a way to disable csm |
| 16:25 |
red-NaN |
meh it's too late now |
| 16:25 |
red-NaN |
the wheels of CSM had already been set in motion |
| 16:26 |
tenplus1 |
damn... |
| 16:26 |
red-NaN |
plus it would be hard to do techincaly |
| 16:26 |
Shara |
I'm actually considering adding CSM use to bannable offences on my server. |
| 16:26 |
red-NaN |
we still have to be able to load builtin |
| 16:26 |
Fixer |
but those GC64 luajit related crashes... they will not fix themselvs if they are not reported to the devs |
| 16:26 |
red-NaN |
so someone could just paste thier stuff into CSM |
| 16:26 |
red-NaN |
+ builtin |
| 16:26 |
Shara |
red-NaN: It's horrible. |
| 16:27 |
red-NaN |
Shara, how so? |
| 16:27 |
Fixer |
Shara: what mod? |
| 16:27 |
Shara |
The spam that just ripped through chat on RC is proof enough |
| 16:27 |
red-NaN |
Shara, whats the channel? |
| 16:27 |
Shara |
I was getting long lines of HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII from people for every time someone signed in |
| 16:27 |
Shara |
(many more Is than that) |
| 16:28 |
red-NaN |
Shara, kick/ban for spam |
| 16:28 |
Shara |
I've told them I'll ban if I see any more of it. |
| 16:28 |
Fixer |
Shara: just kick/ban those Hi players |
| 16:28 |
red-NaN |
^ |
| 16:28 |
red-NaN |
thats one dumb mod |
| 16:28 |
Shara |
Fixer, they are regular players who didn't realise |
| 16:28 |
Shara |
They are just, as is natural, experimenting. |
| 16:28 |
paramat |
preventing client-provided clientmods is not impossible |
| 16:28 |
red-NaN |
Shara, mute them then |
| 16:29 |
Shara |
So banning them right away wouldn't be fair or right of me |
| 16:29 |
Shara |
But it's still a huge headache. |
| 16:29 |
paramat |
.. and is necessary |
| 16:29 |
Shara |
paramat: please make it happen. |
| 16:29 |
red-NaN |
paramat, as far as I'm conserced it is |
| 16:29 |
red-NaN |
unless you want to checksum builtin on client compile |
| 16:30 |
paramat |
nerz intends banning by feature 'flavour', so banning all flavours will be possible |
| 16:30 |
red-NaN |
but buitlin will still need access to some of them |
| 16:30 |
red-NaN |
otherwise the client will break |
| 16:31 |
DS-minetest |
i could change the mod to make it possible to disable it, eg. with a special chat message like "stop the hiing". but some players could maybe be able to delete that again |
| 16:31 |
paramat |
ok, but chat mods will be bannable |
| 16:31 |
Shara |
I want to control how chat appears on my own server. |
| 16:31 |
Shara |
I do not want players controlling it. |
| 16:31 |
tenplus1 |
agreed, if anyone spams chat with csm mod on Xanadu it's an instant ban |
| 16:31 |
red-NaN |
DS-minetest, please consider getting rid of that mod |
| 16:31 |
paramat |
*should be bannable |
| 16:31 |
red-NaN |
it might be part of the -hub starter pack |
| 16:32 |
Shara |
I've had players sending messages in black coloured text.... |
| 16:32 |
paramat |
yeah as i predicted https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5915 |
| 16:32 |
red-NaN |
Shara, how about we add a server-sided way to remove colour? |
| 16:33 |
Shara |
And what if I want it so that admins/moderators have their text a certain colour to identify themselves? |
| 16:33 |
Shara |
It should be the server owner deciding these things. |
| 16:33 |
red-NaN |
that will also stop modded clients and people manunaly entering colour codes |
| 16:33 |
Shara |
red-NaN: please do. |
| 16:33 |
Shara |
And preferably, make it default. |
| 16:34 |
red-NaN |
I would prefer to make it default to off, a lot of server owners might not mind |
| 16:34 |
rubenwardy |
the server needs to validate these things |
| 16:34 |
red-NaN |
huh what does IRC default to? |
| 16:34 |
red-NaN |
on freenode that is |
| 16:35 |
red-NaN |
is colour enabled on freenode by default or off? |
| 16:35 |
DS-minetest |
hopefully #5917 will kill hi |
| 16:36 |
paramat |
"how about we add a server-sided way to remove colour?" chat CSM needs to be a 'flavour' which is disallowable |
| 16:36 |
DS-minetest |
can't you just copy the color char into chat? |
| 16:36 |
red-NaN |
DS-minetest, you can |
| 16:36 |
red-NaN |
it's pretty easy |
| 16:36 |
paramat |
most server owners will mind, you can see how it is already irritating one admin |
| 16:37 |
red-NaN |
but minetest broke copy and paste as a security messure |
| 16:37 |
Fuchs |
red-NaN: freenode should not be used for in-game chat in general, really |
| 16:37 |
red-NaN |
so we don't have to deal with annoying copy and paste |
| 16:37 |
red-NaN |
Fuchs, I was just wondering what freenodes default is |
| 16:37 |
Fuchs |
but to answer your question: +c is not part of the default |
| 16:37 |
Fuchs |
so colours are allowed by default |
| 16:37 |
* DS-minetest |
doesn't see the problem with colors. he tolerates every color, not only white |
| 16:37 |
red-NaN |
ok |
| 16:37 |
Shara |
It's ingame black text on a black background that is really annoying to me. |
| 16:38 |
tenplus1 |
if a server owner takes the time and effort to make their game a specific way for players, only to be changed or made easier by use of csm then we NEED a way to disable it server-side |
| 16:38 |
red-NaN |
no, a lot of stuff client-sided csm loading allows is not something that server owners should have to care about |
| 16:38 |
red-NaN |
what we need is a way to make sure CSM doesn't affect the server |
| 16:39 |
paramat |
c55 has it right: "Current CSM is bad. The design of Minetest is to give all possible control to servers." |
| 16:39 |
red-NaN |
unless the server owner whats it to |
| 16:39 |
Fuchs |
would maybe make sense to implement something that doesn't rely on IRC, so you can have it act your way :) |
| 16:39 |
Shara |
Fuchs: The colour code issue I'm talking about is purely ingame. |
| 16:40 |
Fuchs |
especially that IRC has probably a couple of things (like the message lenght, which depends on the overhead as well, which is variable) that are unlikely to be handled well |
| 16:40 |
IhrFussel |
red-NaN, I thought minetest.strip_colors(str) disables the colors from appearing in chat or no? |
| 16:40 |
Fuchs |
ah |
| 16:40 |
Shara |
The IRC related issue seems to already have a fix, and would apply to any IRC network. |
| 16:40 |
red-NaN |
IhrFussel, yeah it does |
| 16:40 |
Shara |
(as far as I know) |
| 16:41 |
IhrFussel |
Then just add that line to the message callback @ anyone who complains about colored messages |
| 16:41 |
Fixer |
tenplus1 confirmed in Shara's server chats |
| 16:41 |
Shara |
But if I am playing the game, and people are using colour codes to change their text colour so I find it very difficult to read the messages... but I have no control of this... |
| 16:41 |
Shara |
It's a problem to me. |
| 16:42 |
Shara |
I don't mind if a player can set how they see their own display, but to change how I see what they type... That's bad. |
| 16:42 |
red-NaN |
just strip the colours either on the server or on your client |
| 16:43 |
Shara |
And how do I do that in the client? |
| 16:43 |
Fixer |
strip colours on server :} |
| 16:43 |
rubenwardy |
server side reconcilliation, client side prediction |
| 16:43 |
rubenwardy |
all control should be with the server |
| 16:43 |
red-NaN |
one sec let me check if I still have my colour-blind mod |
| 16:43 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't mean that CSM shouldn't exist |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
although I really don't like the send chat api |
| 16:44 |
Shara |
I don't want CSM able to effect chat, as it stands. I see nothing good from it. |
| 16:44 |
red-NaN |
Shara, see "who_plus" as an example |
| 16:45 |
paramat |
unfortunately CSM developed and a release happened before the necessary restrictions, we may need a point release soon after this is sorted out :] |
| 16:45 |
rubenwardy |
that should be server side |
| 16:45 |
Shara |
red-NaN: I have no idea where to look for this. Do you have a link please? |
| 16:46 |
red-NaN |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17800 |
| 16:46 |
red-NaN |
it automates sending certain chatcommands |
| 16:47 |
Shara |
Thanks |
| 16:47 |
rubenwardy |
that shouldn't be done by CSM, imo |
| 16:48 |
tenplus1 |
wouldnt it be easier for admin to type /kick /ban /status and use <tab> to autocomplete a name ?? |
| 16:49 |
Shara |
Yea, not really sure I want to add more mods to stop mods... I think I'll just ban players abusing this. |
| 16:49 |
tenplus1 |
same |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
is it possible to play with opened formspec in background? |
| 16:50 |
Shara |
I have a lot of things I want to work on for MT without needing to constantly try and patch things so I can stand to play. |
| 16:52 |
red-NaN |
alright I suppose I should take back my statements about blocking chat sending |
| 16:52 |
red-NaN |
as long |
| 16:52 |
red-NaN |
as chatcommands are excluded |
| 16:52 |
tenplus1 |
am still getting "WARNING[Main]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found" in console when running server |
| 16:52 |
Fixer |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14429&start=975#p275972 |
| 16:52 |
tenplus1 |
where are these blocks, why no meta ?!?!?!?!? |
| 16:52 |
red-NaN |
tenplus1, no-one knows |
| 16:52 |
red-NaN |
just ignore it |
| 16:53 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:54 |
tenplus1 |
wb nrz |
| 16:56 |
red-NaN |
huh I thought of a hacky way for the server to send settings to CSM mods |
| 16:56 |
nerzhul |
no hacky way |
| 16:57 |
tenplus1 |
do tell ? |
| 16:57 |
nerzhul |
chat message handling hack like i saw before ? |
| 16:57 |
red-NaN |
no even worse |
| 16:57 |
tenplus1 |
??? |
| 16:57 |
red-NaN |
privs |
| 16:57 |
tenplus1 |
add a bogus priv with info attached ? |
| 16:58 |
red-NaN |
the server could set an priv to tell a CSM mod if a feature should be enabled |
| 17:00 |
DS-minetest |
i don't think, that would make sense |
| 17:01 |
tenplus1 |
if csm can read player privs then yeah, it's possible to enable special features using privs |
| 17:01 |
DS-minetest |
all players should be treated equal, admins can have more things with ssm |
| 17:01 |
nerzhul |
it's very hacky, please don't :p |
| 17:02 |
Shara |
Players should be treated based on what they have earned, and not as equals. |
| 17:02 |
tenplus1 |
a natural progression to the game |
| 17:02 |
DS-minetest |
would it be possible to sens something into chat that only those with csm get an error? |
| 17:02 |
red-NaN |
this all feels like testing in production |
| 17:02 |
Shara |
It really does... |
| 17:03 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, a little bit yes |
| 17:04 |
Raven262 |
Nobody should be threated differently, everyone is equal in socialistic society. |
| 17:04 |
red-NaN |
well I think you can at least partially understand why some of the concerns where ignored when people where using far fetched scenrios instead of focusing on the real issues |
| 17:04 |
red-NaN |
like spamming |
| 17:04 |
Shara |
Raven262: we're talking about players. |
| 17:05 |
Raven262 |
Even players are equal. |
| 17:05 |
Shara |
Not in terms of what privs they get. |
| 17:05 |
red-NaN |
Raven262, not this again |
| 17:05 |
Raven262 |
Or is minetest also covered by the shadow of capitalism? |
| 17:05 |
Raven262 |
This, comrade red, this |
| 17:05 |
red-NaN |
we almost burned this place to the ground last time we started this |
| 17:05 |
Raven262 |
You are already red, aren't you? |
| 17:05 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 17:06 |
Shara |
Put yourself in a server owner's shoes for a moment. Player #1 always tries to help new players learn the game, and tries to repair griefing damage they find and so on. Player #2 is a borderline griefer who sometimes spams chat a bit, but not quite enough to get banned. |
| 17:06 |
DS-minetest |
Raven262: you are already blue, a hot flame O_o |
| 17:06 |
Raven262 |
Nah, red is my colour. |
| 17:06 |
Raven262 |
Red as in freedom. |
| 17:06 |
red-NaN |
last time it was someone agruing for human rights and now it is a ex-soviet trying to bring back commuism |
| 17:06 |
Shara |
I'll reward player #1 with extra privs and more of my time any day, player #2... no. |
| 17:07 |
red-NaN |
better red then dead |
| 17:07 |
Raven262 |
Indeed, comrade. |
| 17:07 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: bump |
| 17:07 |
DS-minetest |
Raven262: everyone sees himself as red |
| 17:07 |
Raven262 |
Nah, but red surely does. |
| 17:08 |
Raven262 |
Shara, I have never seen someone reward players with extra privs except when making them an moderator/admin |
| 17:08 |
tenplus1 |
the whole reason the 'creative' priv is important as well... to reward builders and trustworthy playersd |
| 17:08 |
tenplus1 |
I do that all the time Raven |
| 17:08 |
Shara |
Raven262: You didn't spend time around my servers then. |
| 17:08 |
Shara |
Or Xanadu. |
| 17:08 |
Raven262 |
No. |
| 17:08 |
red-NaN |
well brb |
| 17:08 |
red-NaN |
invading russia during the winter |
| 17:09 |
Raven262 |
Heh, bad for you, red. |
| 17:09 |
tenplus1 |
make sure you're wrapped up in a huge fur coat and hat |
| 17:09 |
Raven262 |
Or in the cold embrace of winter anyway. |
| 17:10 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: i wonder if it is possible to open formspec of your protector_redo via CSM and add other players |
| 17:10 |
Raven262 |
That would be nice now, wouldn't it? |
| 17:10 |
tenplus1 |
no, it checks if you have name added before opening |
| 17:10 |
Raven262 |
damn |
| 17:11 |
* Raven262 |
just had an interesting idea. |
| 17:11 |
Raven262 |
But well, wouldn't try that anyway |
| 17:11 |
red-NaN |
tenplus1, before opening? |
| 17:11 |
tenplus1 |
yes |
| 17:11 |
red-NaN |
or before processing input? |
| 17:12 |
red-NaN |
Fixer, CSM can't really mess around with server formspecs |
| 17:12 |
tenplus1 |
on_rightclick it checks if you are allowed and only then opens formspec or protected chest etc |
| 17:12 |
tenplus1 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEBdKFGlPg |
| 17:12 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: i mean protector formspec, not shared chest |
| 17:12 |
red-NaN |
that inventory thing was something I didn't know about how minetest process inventories |
| 17:12 |
red-NaN |
tenplus1, thats not good |
| 17:13 |
red-NaN |
A modded client could pull a worldedit_gui on you |
| 17:13 |
tenplus1 |
yes Fixer, for protector AND chest formspec |
| 17:13 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: have you found out how they grief in protected places? |
| 17:13 |
red-NaN |
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/red-001/diagrams/master/formspec%20spoofing.jpg |
| 17:14 |
tenplus1 |
sadly no... |
| 17:14 |
tenplus1 |
am sure it has something to do with hacked client granting privs |
| 17:16 |
nerzhul |
then sounds somes are doing bots with chat, it's what i suspected before release and didn't wanted to add this API feature, hopefully there is rate limit client side and server side, but it's not sufficient |
| 17:16 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, you can fake formspec like you can fake POST requests on any HTML form |
| 17:16 |
red-NaN |
nerzhul, I know |
| 17:17 |
red-NaN |
I was trying to test my infographic making skills |
| 17:17 |
red-NaN |
it didn't go well |
| 17:17 |
nerzhul |
libre office draw ? |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
tenplus1, you do check on field submission though? |
| 17:17 |
red-NaN |
rubenwardy, looking at his code he seems to be |
| 17:17 |
tenplus1 |
field submission for what / |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
...formspecs |
| 17:18 |
tenplus1 |
it's done on rightclick |
| 17:18 |
DS-minetest |
what if you could only use minetest.send_chat_message as often as you opened chat before? |
| 17:18 |
tenplus1 |
if they cant get into it field submission isnt needed |
| 17:19 |
red-NaN |
... |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
false, tenplus1, you also need to check on fields received as you can't trust clients |
| 17:19 |
red-NaN |
I guess I failed at infographic making then |
| 17:19 |
tenplus1 |
if I do that then it'll become pretty slow |
| 17:19 |
red-NaN |
rubenwardy, https://github.com/tenplus1/protector/blob/1130f447a62cdcb40fe24d68b7717eaa55b1f9bb/init.lua#L525 |
| 17:19 |
tenplus1 |
having to check if player has access to formspec etc |
| 17:19 |
red-NaN |
it seems to check if the player can dig the node |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
that's good then, you do check |
| 17:21 |
tenplus1 |
ooh, xanadu has been up for 42 hours :) |
| 17:21 |
|
cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:21 |
tenplus1 |
hi cx384 |
| 17:22 |
red-NaN |
nerzhul, will you be able to finnish your CSM flavours pr before next release? |
| 17:22 |
cx384 |
hi tenplus1 =) |
| 17:22 |
red-NaN |
no need to hurry with it now since people will just use 0.4.16 |
| 17:22 |
red-NaN |
but this needs to make it's way into next release |
| 17:22 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, next release is in some months then i think it's not a problem :p |
| 17:23 |
red-NaN |
hopefully with some new features like severs being able to send mods to client so that people update |
| 17:23 |
nerzhul |
yes i agree, but i don't continue it, waiting for different discussion and new API |
| 17:25 |
red-NaN |
thinking of re-working the way chatcommands are sent |
| 17:25 |
red-NaN |
if we add client <-> server modding communication we could send chat commands over that instead of chat |
| 17:26 |
Shara |
I really hope this problem won't be left until next release... |
| 17:27 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, we can but it's not the real purpose and needs some server handling |
| 17:28 |
red-NaN |
Shara, there is no real way to handle it until release |
| 17:28 |
red-NaN |
we need a new version and a reason for people to update |
| 17:29 |
red-NaN |
so at least 2 months if we do a point release |
| 17:29 |
Shara |
Then this is extremely poor on the part of the dev team. |
| 17:36 |
paramat |
"no need to hurry"? this has been let loose on the release, needs a fix and a point release |
| 17:38 |
Amaz |
Servers do need to be able to disable (at least most of) CSM asap. |
| 17:38 |
tenplus1 |
yup |
| 17:38 |
Amaz |
And allowing servers to send their own client side mods would also be *very* nice |
| 17:38 |
rubenwardy |
sending chat should not be a feature |
| 17:38 |
Shara |
We shouldn't need to wait two months to have some control over this mess though, either way. |
| 17:39 |
Amaz |
^ |
| 17:39 |
rubenwardy |
client side modding shouldn't be for client mods |
| 17:39 |
rubenwardy |
client side modding should be for client side prediction for server side mods |
| 17:40 |
paramat |
how about all CSM work goes into this issue, then we release as soon as it is done? would it need to be a separate branch (0.4.17) to avoid 0.5.0 work? |
| 17:42 |
paramat |
a branch for point release fixes for 0.4.16 was actually discussed for other reasons |
| 17:44 |
cheapie |
CSM sounds like the sort of thing I'd expect a major release for. It's also the kind of thing that I'd expect to actually be finished before a release, instead of the half-baked version in 0.4.16 :/ |
| 17:46 |
tenplus1 |
hi cheapie |
| 17:46 |
cheapie |
Hi. |
| 17:47 |
cheapie |
[12:38:10] <Amaz> Servers do need to be able to disable (at least most of) CSM asap. <--- If you do that, most likely lots of people (me included) are promptly going to patch around that anti-feature in our clients. |
| 17:49 |
Shara |
This is the problem we now have. |
| 17:49 |
tenplus1 |
personally I feel that CSM mods should be loaded FROM the server to assist in it's operation on the client engine, leaving the server with control over what's run |
| 17:50 |
Amaz |
^ |
| 17:50 |
Shara |
If clients can do what they like, clients will now do what they like. |
| 17:50 |
Shara |
It's always been an issue, but there's now been an official release that lowers the barrier. |
| 17:50 |
tenplus1 |
exactly |
| 17:51 |
Shara |
And I really, really do not want a client able to change what my server then supplies to other players, even if it is only a chat colour. |
| 17:58 |
nerzhul |
Amaz, i think you dream, sending mods from server just needs many dev and tests and BEST security |
| 17:58 |
nerzhul |
paramat, backport stable -0.4 to generate 0.4.x |
| 17:59 |
paramat |
ok |
| 17:59 |
Jordach |
>tfw fidget spinners works for someone with autism |
| 17:59 |
Jordach |
reeeee |
| 18:01 |
paramat |
cheapie that's what bigfoot547 stated, depending on what you do that could make you an unwelcome hacker |
| 18:09 |
red-NaN |
the reason we will have to wait is that we need to give users a reason to upate |
| 18:09 |
red-NaN |
update* |
| 18:09 |
* DS-minetest |
finally made a client side chatbell mod :P |
| 18:09 |
tenplus1 |
chat bell ? |
| 18:09 |
red-NaN |
if the main feature for users is "We removed a feature because server owners didn't like it" then they don't have a reason to update |
| 18:10 |
DS-minetest |
a bell that is to hear if your name is written |
| 18:10 |
tenplus1 |
ah |
| 18:11 |
red-NaN |
as nice as it would be to remove chat sending and node access if the server doesn't want it, it's not possible unless users co-operate |
| 18:11 |
paramat |
weird, i thought server-provided clientmods was the original idea and primary use, it's the most useful aspect |
| 18:11 |
red-NaN |
and if they were willing to co-operate in the first place they would disable the mods that server owners didn't like |
| 18:11 |
paramat |
fixing this is enough reason to update :] |
| 18:12 |
Fixer |
i still think people overreacting about CSM |
| 18:12 |
Fixer |
it is interesting how it ends up in security sense |
| 18:12 |
red-NaN |
paramat, for server owners not for players |
| 18:12 |
red-NaN |
remeber theses are the players that are using these mods even through the server owner doesn't like them |
| 18:13 |
tenplus1 |
if players want to run mods for singleplayer use then that's fine, but for server use it's up to the server itself to dictate mods in use |
| 18:13 |
paramat |
there will be other improvements by the time CSM is sorted, not everyone works on CSM |
| 18:14 |
red-NaN |
paramat, thats why I was giving a time frame of two months |
| 18:14 |
paramat |
" it's not possible unless users co-operate |
| 18:14 |
paramat |
" ? |
| 18:14 |
red-NaN |
thats a realistic time frame for adding new features and fixing this |
| 18:14 |
red-NaN |
paramat, they can just use an old client |
| 18:14 |
Fixer |
"White Supremacy Symbol" |
| 18:15 |
Fixer |
LOL |
| 18:15 |
Fixer |
not this again |
| 18:15 |
Jordach |
Fixer, l m a o |
| 18:15 |
paramat |
stop trying to say it's pointless, i can see from your arguments you are biased against restrictions |
| 18:15 |
red-NaN |
unless you want to lose ~60% of moible users you will need to allow old clients |
| 18:15 |
Fixer |
those spinners are dumb |
| 18:15 |
paramat |
this was clear in the thread too |
| 18:15 |
Fixer |
compared to yoyo |
| 18:15 |
red-NaN |
paramat, well then suggest a way to implement it |
| 18:17 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:17 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 |
| 18:17 |
Krock |
HA |
| 18:17 |
red-NaN |
hi tenplus1 |
| 18:17 |
paramat |
"paramat, they can just use an old client" then we just have to do whatever is necessary to avoid loopholes, you're just resisting what is needed |
| 18:17 |
red-NaN |
you can't avoid that loop hole |
| 18:18 |
red-NaN |
unless like a said you ban old clients |
| 18:18 |
red-NaN |
and completely break backwards compatibilliy |
| 18:19 |
red-NaN |
wait aren't we planning to remove old protocol support for 0.5.0? |
| 18:19 |
paramat |
then why was CSM coded this way in the first place? seems a disaster |
| 18:19 |
tenplus1 |
+1... also, hi Krock |
| 18:20 |
paramat |
anyway i don't trust your statements much because you are obviously biased against restrictions |
| 18:20 |
Fixer |
REMOVE KECSM |
| 18:20 |
Krock |
REMOVE KEBAB |
| 18:21 |
Fixer |
still, i think situation is mostly okay for now |
| 18:21 |
Fixer |
just discuss calmly |
| 18:21 |
paramat |
and what is nerz coding and how come he can code effective restrictions? |
| 18:22 |
red-NaN |
on new clients |
| 18:22 |
Fixer |
what is worrying me is this discussed by only 3 devs... |
| 18:22 |
red-NaN |
thats why we need co-operation from users |
| 18:23 |
paramat |
how about completely removing the ability to have client-provided clientmods and have server-provided only? (as was the original plan and by far the most useful usage) would that allow effective restrictions? |
| 18:24 |
* red-NaN |
sigh |
| 18:24 |
red-NaN |
I do think that the way nerzhul is planning to do this is mostly ok |
| 18:24 |
Jordach |
wooo |
| 18:25 |
paramat |
ok so restriction by flavour is no solution either |
| 18:25 |
Jordach |
woot |
| 18:25 |
Jordach |
i can make extruded models in blender for 234 tris |
| 18:25 |
red-NaN |
at the very least it's harder to by-pass then the idea of removing mod loading |
| 18:27 |
paramat |
please could someone answer my long question above, nerzhul? seems that has to be considered |
| 18:27 |
red-NaN |
paramat, you are confusing me disagreeing with how you want to implement this with not wanting to limit CSM at all |
| 18:27 |
nerzhul |
paramat, it's not possible to do it in a short time because i don't want to see rogue servers which send shit to our clients client and hack their system (it's schema but realist) |
| 18:28 |
paramat |
ok |
| 18:28 |
red-NaN |
The only way that the "disable all client-sided mod loading" idea would work would be if the server sent builtin to the client |
| 18:28 |
nerzhul |
CSM disable is a reality for most users , only some rogue users enabled it to do shit, releasing will not prevent using 0.4.16 to do same things |
| 18:28 |
red-NaN |
but that would be a nightmare to work with |
| 18:29 |
paramat |
CSM should be completely disabled until finished, but it has been left usable in 0.4.16 |
| 18:29 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, i disagree with sending builtin because it's not mod owners respobility to handle core lua |
| 18:29 |
red-NaN |
and could be a security disaster |
| 18:29 |
nerzhul |
yes |
| 18:29 |
red-NaN |
nerzhul, I was just playing the devils advocate for a monment there |
| 18:29 |
tenplus1 |
disable for now, bump version to 0.4.17 and let ppl update |
| 18:29 |
nerzhul |
it's disable by default |
| 18:30 |
nerzhul |
we can hardcode CSM disable but this will not prevent users to enable it by using 0.4.16 or just hacked client which remove this hard limit |
| 18:30 |
red-NaN |
^ |
| 18:30 |
red-NaN |
hacked clients are a smaller issue |
| 18:31 |
paramat |
ok, but: "The barriers to cheating we've had until CSM are fine. As long as cheating requires C++ changes, we're pretty much where we've always been" |
| 18:31 |
red-NaN |
sure |
| 18:31 |
paramat |
^ c55 |
| 18:31 |
nerzhul |
also hardcoding disabling it will reduce the valid testers :( |
| 18:31 |
nerzhul |
i think flavour to disable CSM risky features is the best consensus between anoying users using Lua and CSM useful features |
| 18:32 |
red-NaN |
oh btw I will soon make a PR to remove colour from messages the server receives |
| 18:32 |
paramat |
so why was this misuse by clients not considered or forseen? CSM was obviously wanted so someone must have an idea of how to implement it correctly |
| 18:32 |
red-NaN |
well chat sending was a last minute thing |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
paramat, CSM implement is good, API over CSM are not, i was against sending chat messages at the begining but i accept it because many good users convince me |
| 18:33 |
red-NaN |
it got in the day before the feature frezze |
| 18:33 |
red-NaN |
it was rejected twice before that |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
and i ask the PR owner on chat message to add the chat sending limit |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
i think the queue should be dropped |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
too many messages => drop |
| 18:33 |
paramat |
there was plenty of controversy and debate in the ore detect mod thread long before release, why ignored? |
| 18:33 |
red-NaN |
nerzhul, maybe we heavily limit chat sending |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
don't queue and dispatch them over time |
| 18:34 |
red-NaN |
most legitimate use-case don't need to send a lot of messages |
| 18:34 |
red-NaN |
I mean coloured chat is sort of legitimate |
| 18:35 |
red-NaN |
but it's not that useful |
| 18:35 |
nerzhul |
paramat, why don't help us to solve this issue in feature freeze if you know it ? me and red-NaN worked on the bugs to fix in the list, CSM was for us a disabled feature and there was many blockers to fix, if more coredevs or C++ PR owners have helped us to solve all those things or someone declared oredetection block we could have delayed released or fix it before that |
| 18:35 |
nerzhul |
i think color chat should only be a customization per player |
| 18:35 |
nerzhul |
or server message responsiblity |
| 18:36 |
nerzhul |
you customize messages color, sender color etc |
| 18:36 |
nerzhul |
(i.e. my WIP chat protocol rewrite) |
| 18:36 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:36 |
red-NaN |
well I first implemented coloured chat for CSM as a way to prove it could be done in lua |
| 18:37 |
tenplus1 |
hi Megaf |
| 18:37 |
paramat |
because i don't remotely understand how it is coded. that's no excuse for not considering the objections raised |
| 18:37 |
paramat |
as has been said in the thread there was plenty of objection long before release |
| 18:37 |
nerzhul |
the best short think we can do i think is to finish the flavour PR, which will trigger a protocol bump and server owner should just set minimum version to 0.4.17 if they want to fix the problem |
| 18:38 |
Megaf |
o// |
| 18:38 |
Shara |
And lose a lot of players? |
| 18:38 |
Shara |
Hi Roary Tiger |
| 18:38 |
nerzhul |
there was, but also did you look at the GH activity ? there were many coredevs busy on other things than minetest, it's their right, but it doesn't help us to fix all the backlog |
| 18:38 |
nerzhul |
Shara, i don't added that mention, but yes it's the protocol behind this |
| 18:38 |
Megaf |
hey Shara |
| 18:39 |
nerzhul |
if you don't block older MT (then 0.4.16) everybody can use CSM with that version to do unwanted things |
| 18:39 |
paramat |
ok, nuff said, i appreciate the efforts towards fixing this |
| 18:40 |
nerzhul |
note: i don't want to add core hack to define if flavour == CSM_FLAVOUR_BL_ALL => protocol 0.4.16 is forbidden to connect |
| 18:41 |
Shara |
If I do that, I'll lose probably most of my players over night anyway |
| 18:42 |
Jordach |
i've found a bug |
| 18:42 |
tenplus1 |
? |
| 18:42 |
Jordach |
nothing major |
| 18:42 |
red-NaN |
well are there any other functions in CSM that need to be blocked? |
| 18:42 |
Shara |
Simply can't expect players to be running the most recent client. |
| 18:42 |
Jordach |
it's meshoptions plants |
| 18:42 |
Shara |
I don't understand CSM well enough yet to know what else it can do. |
| 18:42 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, i think only chat & node limits |
| 18:42 |
Jordach |
tenplus1, http://i.imgur.com/00W8XFQ.png |
| 18:43 |
tenplus1 |
they float slightly |
| 18:43 |
Jordach |
meshoptions plants seem to fly at the momenty |
| 18:43 |
Jordach |
-y |
| 18:43 |
red-NaN |
lol I kinda wish I didn't release my mod now |
| 18:43 |
Shara |
What we need is the server to control this so the client doesn't matter. |
| 18:43 |
Megaf |
can anyone give a light on this SATA/UDMA issue? I added a SSD to where an optical drive once was, its a macbook pro mid 2010 13 inch. http://paste.debian.net/plain/970670 |
| 18:43 |
red-NaN |
having coloured chat was a lot cooler when your where the only person that had it |
| 18:44 |
nerzhul |
CSM is able to create local formspec for example you can make client only craft guide which is nice for client, you can handle minimap, settings, you can read all local player attributes, the current time, sending messages over chat (!), reading the map nodes your loaded (!) |
| 18:44 |
Shara |
red-NaN: Yea, and I wouldn't mind if it worked that way. |
| 18:44 |
Shara |
nerzhul: What is I don't want players to use the minimap unless they have, for example, a map item? |
| 18:44 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, yeah, users are more stupid and creative than us with a single api call :p |
| 18:45 |
nerzhul |
Shara, if you disabled for your clients it you cannot enable with CSM if it's your question |
| 18:45 |
Shara |
What if part of the game on my server is learning your own recipes, and I don't want to give everyone a craft guide? |
| 18:45 |
red-NaN |
the way lisac implemented his coloured chat system was more intersting |
| 18:45 |
red-NaN |
Shara, well I think a craftguide would require a server-side mod to support it |
| 18:46 |
red-NaN |
I could be wrong but iirc the client doesn't know about crafts |
| 18:46 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, i think you can have client side craftguide atm no ? we can read recipes |
| 18:46 |
Shara |
That is really bad |
| 18:46 |
Shara |
Learning recipes can easily be a part of the gameplay |
| 18:47 |
Shara |
I don't want players just able to go and read them all. |
| 18:47 |
red-NaN |
I think we only have node definitions |
| 18:47 |
nerzhul |
yeah but if we block all formspec we can block the excellent who_plus CSM mod |
| 18:47 |
nerzhul |
red-NaN, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.md#definitions |
| 18:48 |
nerzhul |
you are right we don't have recipes yet |
| 18:48 |
Shara |
nerzhul: no offence meant, but that mods doesn't do anything I need |
| 18:48 |
nerzhul |
if we add it, add a flavour for it then |
| 18:48 |
Shara |
I'm happy to block it |
| 18:48 |
red-NaN |
neat colour code striping works |
| 18:49 |
nerzhul |
Shara, CSM is intended to enhance client experience also, not only what you want, we can offer some limits but removing all means just trash all efforts we want to make to reduce server load |
| 18:49 |
paramat |
"i think only chat & node limits", many more will arise for sure :] |
| 18:49 |
Shara |
nerzhul: if the compromise is server owner's losing control, then yes, I'd like it trashed. I know you have worked hard, but it's not good. |
| 18:50 |
Shara |
It's my server. I pay to run it. I should be in control there. |
| 18:50 |
nerzhul |
paramat, in the future ? yes, but atm it's the only problems i see |
| 18:50 |
paramat |
Jordach that's with randomised tile height i guess? |
| 18:50 |
Jordach |
paramat, yeeee |
| 18:50 |
Shara |
If the game won't allow me to be in control, it may well be time for me to go and find another game, yes? |
| 18:50 |
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Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:50 |
red-NaN |
oh lets stop overreacting |
| 18:51 |
nerzhul |
Shara, i can take examples with texture, you can have spent many moeny to make your texture pack on server and player set a custom texture pack, it's similar problem no ? |
| 18:51 |
red-NaN |
^ |
| 18:51 |
Shara |
It's nto similar at all. |
| 18:51 |
Shara |
not* |
| 18:51 |
Jordach |
paramat, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5947 |
| 18:51 |
Shara |
Someone setting a texture pack changes only their own experience. |
| 18:52 |
nerzhul |
CSM will not be removed, now stop talking and we shoud finds how to properly limit the API, and server owners should update and encourage fucking anoying players to kick by banishing them if needed |
| 18:52 |
red-NaN |
and thats what CSM mods should be limited to if the server owner doesn't want them to be able to do more |
| 18:52 |
Shara |
nerzhul: Yes, properly limit it please. |
| 18:52 |
red-NaN |
thats basicly what they do now if we removed chat |
| 18:53 |
* red-NaN |
sets out to find a colour thats just off enough from black to be annoying to the eye but not enough for anyone to be sure |
| 18:54 |
DS-minetest |
(by abusing chat a client side craft guide would already be possible. but it would need support of server. => it made no sense) |
| 18:54 |
red-NaN |
may I ask why is colour not removed for old clients? |
| 18:54 |
nerzhul |
DS-minetest, you made crazy mods over CSM :p |
| 18:55 |
red-NaN |
we seem to be using a werid setting |
| 18:55 |
nerzhul |
because we have retrocompat... but it was forgotten here ? :p |
| 18:55 |
red-NaN |
instead of just removing colour-codes for old clients |
| 18:56 |
red-NaN |
I might make a PR at some point to fix that and allow us to remove "disable_escape_sequences" |
| 18:57 |
Jordach |
http://i.imgur.com/0JmgS6W.png |
| 19:00 |
Jordach |
...probably shouldn't post porn on IRC Kappa |
| 19:00 |
red-NaN |
Shara, #5948 |
| 19:02 |
DS-minetest |
Jordach: wth your screen is wide! |
| 19:03 |
Jordach |
u l t r a w i d e |
| 19:03 |
octacian |
Jordach: Is that a custom model for the grass or whatever that is? heh |
| 19:03 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/Images/emoji/thinking.png |
| 19:04 |
octacian |
lol |
| 19:04 |
Jordach |
apparently discord's emojis are SVG |
| 19:05 |
Jordach |
https://discordapp.com/assets/53ef346458017da2062aca5c7955946b.svg |
| 19:06 |
octacian |
Really? heh, I've never bothered attempting to open the emojis themselves xD |
| 19:10 |
DS-minetest |
https://assets-cdn.github.com/images/icons/emoji/unicode/1f914.png |
| 19:16 |
lisac_ |
Discord has no plugin support |
| 19:16 |
red-NaN |
oh hi lisac_ |
| 19:17 |
red-NaN |
turns out the masses where not ready for coloured chat |
| 19:17 |
lisac_ |
Hi red-NaN |
| 19:17 |
lisac |
red-NaN, How is that? |
| 19:17 |
lisac |
Hi ShadowBot. |
| 19:17 |
red-NaN |
they did not over through the ruling class |
| 19:17 |
red-NaN |
they joined it |
| 19:18 |
* lisac |
> Amon Amarth - The Pursuit Of Vikings - [ Fate Of Norns #4 ] - [ 03:07 / 04:30 ] |
| 19:18 |
red-NaN |
or tl;dr people make poor design choices |
| 19:18 |
red-NaN |
also known as black text on anything thats not a uniform bright page |
| 19:19 |
red-NaN |
oh and someone made a mod to simulate -hub/11 which really annoyed server owners |
| 19:19 |
* red-NaN |
wonders does 11 summon tenplus1 |
| 19:20 |
lisac |
I know that hill should summon foot |
| 19:20 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 19:20 |
lisac |
Hi tenplus1. |
| 19:20 |
tenplus1 |
hi hi |
| 19:21 |
DS-minetest |
that was me who made that. but 11 doesn't want to use it because he would loose his job |
| 19:21 |
lisac |
red-NaN, Do you think it is possible to get what hue there is most in an RGB color? |
| 19:22 |
red-NaN |
robot revolution people |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
and use that to determine IRC color? |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
ex. 255 50 50 gives red |
| 19:22 |
red-NaN |
huh |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
same as 255 0 200 |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
etc, etc. |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
and make colors work in IRC, too |
| 19:22 |
red-NaN |
oh |
| 19:22 |
red-NaN |
well I guess so |
| 19:23 |
red-NaN |
but IRC colours are very limited |
| 19:23 |
red-NaN |
I don't think it will work well |
| 19:23 |
lisac |
:( |
| 19:23 |
red-NaN |
plus they are implemention defined |
| 19:23 |
red-NaN |
diffrent clients can use diffrent colours |
| 19:23 |
lisac |
so, I might see red, but someone else might see pink? |
| 19:23 |
DS-minetest |
clolors |
| 19:24 |
red-NaN |
well I might see really bright and clear red |
| 19:24 |
lisac |
1 2 3 4 5 |
| 19:24 |
red-NaN |
but somone might see muted dark red |
| 19:24 |
red-NaN |
lisac, colors are disabled here |
| 19:24 |
lisac |
oh :( |
| 19:27 |
red-NaN |
huh I though of another optimaztion for my .rainbow command |
| 19:27 |
red-NaN |
I don't need to add colour codes for spaces, etc |
| 19:30 |
octacian |
Wait, no colours here? Really? |
| 19:30 |
octacian |
So, no red? |
| 19:31 |
octacian |
Doesn't look disabled to me... |
| 19:31 |
red-NaN |
oh don't you dare |
| 19:31 |
octacian |
Why not? :P |
| 19:31 |
red-NaN |
I don't want to become NaC-NaN |
| 19:32 |
* octacian |
is so tempted to load his rainbow extension... |
| 19:32 |
red-NaN |
well it wouldn't work |
| 19:32 |
octacian |
You sure? |
| 19:32 |
red-NaN |
yeah |
| 19:32 |
octacian |
Didn't the red work? |
| 19:32 |
red-NaN |
I'm sure |
| 19:32 |
octacian |
heh, Well, either way, no time xD |
| 19:33 |
DS-minetest |
these colors work |
| 19:33 |
red-NaN |
Unless this is orange |
| 19:33 |
octacian |
Nope, not orange |
| 19:39 |
Jordach |
Two number 9's; a number 9 large; a number 6, extra dip; a number 7; two number 45's, one with cheese; and a large soda. |
| 19:40 |
* Shara |
likes the sound of NaC-NaN. |
| 19:45 |
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sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:46 |
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sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:49 |
octacian |
red-NaN: BTW, a note about your GUIPathSelect PR. Rather than returning data via one of two different field names, could all the data be returned as a table to one field name? |
| 19:52 |
* DS-minetest |
just recognizes now, how easy it is to make a calculator clientmod. why should any function be forbidden?! |
| 19:52 |
red-NaN |
you mean the _accepted and _canceled? |
| 19:53 |
octacian |
Yeah. It can be pretty annoying to handle |
| 19:53 |
red-NaN |
well thats the way the old code worked and I just kepted it |
| 19:53 |
red-NaN |
since I didn't want to re-write the input handler |
| 19:54 |
octacian |
Well, if you are able to at some point I think it'd be a major improvement |
| 19:55 |
|
nerzhul_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:56 |
red-NaN |
well the only table I could return from what I can see would be a json table |
| 19:57 |
octacian |
No way to just return a normal lua table? huh |
| 20:00 |
red-NaN |
no |
| 20:00 |
red-NaN |
this is too far removed from lua |
| 20:01 |
octacian |
I see |
| 20:06 |
red-NaN |
DS-minetest, second view |
| 20:07 |
red-NaN |
oh neat can I crash the client with this? |
| 20:07 |
tenplus1 |
??? |
| 20:07 |
DS-minetest |
heh, you found it |
| 20:08 |
DS-minetest |
perhaps you can |
| 20:09 |
red-NaN |
oh lol 1/0 is inf |
| 20:10 |
red-NaN |
hey I can inject code |
| 20:10 |
red-NaN |
neato |
| 20:10 |
red-NaN |
so neat but please never make a server-sided port of this |
| 20:11 |
DS-minetest |
sure XD |
| 20:11 |
red-NaN |
it will be kinda useful for dev |
| 20:11 |
red-NaN |
hey maybe rename the command to .lua |
| 20:11 |
red-NaN |
and pretend the code injection is a feature |
| 20:12 |
DS-minetest |
hm, i will add a .lua command, that doesn't add return in front |
| 20:12 |
red-NaN |
it's pretty neat because it doesn't crash on error |
| 20:12 |
red-NaN |
nooo |
| 20:13 |
red-NaN |
keep that |
| 20:13 |
red-NaN |
this makes it print the erros |
| 20:13 |
red-NaN |
errors* |
| 20:14 |
red-NaN |
or no?? |
| 20:14 |
DS-minetest |
yes, but you can't do all |
| 20:14 |
DS-minetest |
hmm |
| 20:14 |
|
Amaz left #minetest-hub |
| 20:14 |
DS-minetest |
no, it still shows the errors |
| 20:14 |
red-NaN |
huh it prints some errors but not others |
| 20:14 |
|
stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:14 |
red-NaN |
nvm |
| 20:15 |
DS-minetest |
added |
| 20:15 |
red-NaN |
my error jus happened to be prefectly legal lua code |
| 20:16 |
red-NaN |
maybe also run dump() on the output |
| 20:17 |
red-NaN |
or not |
| 20:17 |
red-NaN |
the user can do that |
| 20:18 |
DS-minetest |
hm, the errors also seem to be in terminal printed |
| 20:18 |
Jordach |
i found why my internet is worse than Fixer's |
| 20:18 |
Jordach |
now at sub 4mbit |
| 20:19 |
Jordach |
ping spikes to over 2sec |
| 20:20 |
Jordach |
ISP is currently installing new cabinets and shit |
| 20:20 |
Jordach |
so half of the support networks are disabled while new fiber is laid and ready to roll |
| 20:21 |
tenplus1 |
nite all |
| 20:21 |
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| 20:21 |
* DS-minetest |
sadly didn't yet manage to finish the mod that shall get the pos of a thing with the help of 2 sights |
| 20:32 |
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| 20:47 |
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| 20:48 |
red-NaN |
someone got a cloak |
| 20:48 |
red-NaN |
and setup sasl? |
| 20:51 |
red-NaN |
I just noticed thats all |
| 20:51 |
red-NaN |
that you have a cloak duh |
| 20:51 |
Calinou |
I have both |
| 20:52 |
Calinou |
The unaffiliated cloak! The scalpel of accuracy! The epitome of trolling! |
| 20:53 |
Calinou |
it makes for cheap ban evasion |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
hmmmmm |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
wait a sec |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
so chat6 csm mod I'm using causing problems for other people? |
| 21:02 |
red-NaN |
no |
| 21:03 |
red-NaN |
DS-minetest's hi and my colour chat mod are annoying peple |
| 21:03 |
Fixer |
red-NaN: how? |
| 21:04 |
Fixer |
is not it just client-side coloring? o_0 |
| 21:04 |
red-NaN |
no |
| 21:04 |
red-NaN |
my mod changes the colour of chat the player sends using the chat message send API |
| 21:04 |
Fixer |
now i'm confused |
| 21:04 |
Fixer |
red-NaN: i'm using cheapies one |
| 21:04 |
red-NaN |
his mod does something diffrent |
| 21:05 |
red-NaN |
it modifys the way incoming chat is displayed |
| 21:07 |
Fixer |
[Clientmod] say automatically hi to everybody [hi] (New posts) |
| 21:07 |
Fixer |
LOL |
| 21:07 |
Fixer |
now i understand this drama |
| 21:07 |
red-NaN |
^ |
| 21:07 |
DS-minetest |
heh, it's not that annoying on servers where not that many players join |
| 21:08 |
red-NaN |
I think I have a problem |
| 21:08 |
red-NaN |
"Your repositories 36" |
| 21:08 |
red-NaN |
this is getting out of hand |
| 21:08 |
Fixer |
DS-minetest: imagine server like Hometown with 40 people, say 5 of them have Hi, and every minute 10 people joins and exits, so you end up with 50 hi |
| 21:09 |
DS-minetest |
lol, true, if everyone has hi XD |
| 21:09 |
nerzhul |
being polite is now a problem :p |
| 21:09 |
red-NaN |
I can't decide if thats more like a pyraimid scheme or a smart DDoS attack |
| 21:09 |
DS-minetest |
but it can already be annoying with one player having hi, eh. on just test 2 |
| 21:09 |
red-NaN |
like one of those reflection attacks |
| 21:09 |
DS-minetest |
eg* |
| 21:10 |
red-NaN |
DS-minetest, at least it doesn't anwser to "Hi"'s |
| 21:10 |
DS-minetest |
ha |
| 21:10 |
red-NaN |
and now I want to code that |
| 21:10 |
DS-minetest |
no, it says once hi on connection to everyone |
| 21:10 |
red-NaN |
just to see what would happen |
| 21:11 |
red-NaN |
** queue evil background sounds and music ** |
| 21:16 |
red-NaN |
ok |
| 21:17 |
red-NaN |
:( the github license choicer doesn't support CC0 |
| 21:18 |
Calinou |
red-NaN: it can *detect* CC0 though |
| 21:19 |
Calinou |
I'm pretty sure |
| 21:19 |
Calinou |
https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode |
| 21:19 |
Calinou |
paste the text starting from "Statement of Purpose" in a LICENSE.txt file |
| 21:19 |
Calinou |
or, https://github.com/idleberg/Creative-Commons-Markdown |
| 21:19 |
Calinou |
(it's in 4.0 folder) |
| 21:20 |
red-NaN |
lol .markdown? |
| 21:21 |
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| 21:21 |
red-NaN |
but is the license under CC0? |
| 21:21 |
ShadowBot |
GitHub - idleberg/Creative-Commons-Markdown: Markdown-formatted Creative Commons licenses |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:24 |
Calinou |
just rename .markdown to .md if you want |
| 21:24 |
Calinou |
heck, some people use .mdown |
| 21:24 |
Calinou |
but .md won the battle |
| 21:24 |
Calinou |
(by far) |
| 21:24 |
red-NaN |
oh this is ironic |
| 21:25 |
red-NaN |
the license file is a lot larger then my code |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
CC0 isn't small |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
but it's legally valid (probably) |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
you may want to prefer the MIT license for code |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
(but keep on using CC0 for assets) |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
this ^ |
| 21:27 |
red-NaN |
why so? |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
MIT is shorter, and OSI-approved, unlike CC0 |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
CC0 is FSF-approved but not OSI-approved |
| 21:28 |
red-NaN |
please tell me why that should be important to me |
| 21:28 |
red-NaN |
was it not approved on legal grounds? |
| 21:28 |
red-NaN |
or ideological grounds |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
red-NaN: legal grounds |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
if you read CC0, you'll see that it explicitly denies any form of patent grant |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
no other open source license does this |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
GPLv3 and Apache 2 *grant* patent licenses |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
the other ones don't, but it could be seen as implicit |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
CC0 tells licenses, "you'll never have patent licenses, no matter what" |
| 21:29 |
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| 21:29 |
red-NaN |
well I don't think I'm going to get a patent for striping some colour codes |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
and this is why Creative Commons pulled the CC0 from being OSI-approved |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
(they submitted it a while ago) |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
red-NaN: software patents might not be an issue for you in this case, but they can be in larger projects |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
(probably a good reason to not use CC0 on large software) |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
(or particularly innovative software) |
| 21:30 |
red-NaN |
well I suppose it's useful for people that don't want a patent |
| 21:31 |
red-NaN |
well the license auto-detection didn't work with the markdown file |
| 21:31 |
red-NaN |
https://github.com/red-001/colour_blind |
| 21:32 |
ShadowBot |
GitHub - red-001/colour_blind: A minetest CSM mod for removing all colour from incoming messages. |
| 21:32 |
red-NaN |
and yes I'm going to spell it "colour" everywhere but in the code |
| 21:33 |
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| 21:43 |
DS-minetest |
colour_carrier also uses "colour" in code |
| 21:44 |
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| 21:45 |
DS-minetest |
if register_on_receiving_chat_messages returns true, the other functions aren't executed, right? |
| 21:46 |
red-NaN |
yeah |
| 21:46 |
red-NaN |
oh come one |
| 21:47 |
red-NaN |
on* |
| 21:47 |
red-NaN |
don't ninja me |
| 21:47 |
Fixer |
JUST ONE MORE YEAR AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY |
| 21:47 |
Fixer |
Lua CSM start up idea |
| 21:48 |
Fixer |
worst idea ever ofc |
| 21:48 |
Fixer |
implement chat bot (neural networks one with big database) and connect to server... |
| 21:49 |
Fixer |
other player can also join with this bot |
| 21:49 |
Fixer |
and you start bot vs bot talks |
| 21:49 |
Fixer |
ingame |
| 21:50 |
Fixer |
or with clean database |
| 21:50 |
Fixer |
bots record players messages |
| 21:50 |
Fixer |
and start talking with this MOM/MUM/DAD insanity |
| 21:51 |
Fixer |
this is perfect for 2b2t like gameplay |
| 21:54 |
red-NaN |
you are a mad man |
| 21:55 |
red-NaN |
so when are we starting? |
| 21:55 |
Fixer |
red-NaN: bot with bot talks actually happened on jabber server long ago |
| 21:58 |
red-NaN |
well I once got two irc bots into a loop |
| 21:58 |
Fixer |
both bots had big talk databases and it was pretty fun to read |
| 21:58 |
red-NaN |
a lot of spam was generated that day |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
that days |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
separate room was made just for those two bots |
| 22:08 |
Fixer |
ＣＹＢＥＲＷＨＯＯＰＥＥ |
| 22:10 |
sfan5 |
ＣＹＢＥＲ ＢＲＩＴＩＳＨ ＥＬＥＣＴＩＯＮＳ |
| 22:11 |
srifqi |
Bot which plays Minetest? |
| 22:12 |
srifqi |
No? |
| 22:12 |
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| 22:13 |
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| 22:19 |
Fixer |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBymQBvWsAAFXSn.jpg:large |
| 22:19 |
Fixer |
*_* |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:32 |
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| 23:03 |
octacian |
Well, I'm going to be away for the weekend. Cya'll later! |
| 23:14 |
Fixer |
our old friend Sadie is back |
| 23:14 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/EBFrtda.png |
| 23:15 |
red-inf |
On hometown? |
| 23:16 |
Fixer |
yep |
| 23:16 |
Fixer |
PART FISH @ PART GIRL @ I DON"T FIT YOUR WORLD |
| 23:17 |
Fixer |
cccombo https://i.imgur.com/q9RBew8.png |
| 23:17 |
Fixer |
70% of players have those names |
| 23:18 |
Fixer |
also this https://i.imgur.com/h3H1Rbm.png |
| 23:18 |
Fixer |
bigfoot548: EnglishNameNNN |
| 23:18 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/UgxKMIo.png that was fast |
| 23:20 |
Fixer |
cupcakes everywhere |
| 23:31 |
Jordach |
fucking priceless |
| 23:31 |
Jordach |
http://i.imgur.com/HJtQcrC.jpg |
| 23:31 |
red-inf |
xD |
| 23:32 |
Jordach |
supporting communism makes you a fucking retard |
| 23:32 |
Jordach |
and by extension makes you sort of guilty for supporting the deaths of millions |
| 23:43 |
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