Time Nick Message 00:22 VanessaE IhrFussel: have you filed a bug report? 00:30 IhrFussel VanessaE, Yes and it got the label "unconfirmed bug" which is why I linked 3 different videos now 00:31 VanessaE "unconfirmed" means none of the core developers have been able to reproduce it (or perhaps no one has tried). 00:31 VanessaE did you link your new video to the bug report? 00:32 IhrFussel Yes and I added the steps to reproduce it as comment + I linked to 3 videos..one shows the glitch when standing still on the ground, the other shows standing still mid air and the 3rd one shows that it seems to be fixed when I stand at walls 00:34 IhrFussel Yes I linked the recent video too now and I hope at least 1 core dev will find the time to try it out themselves (it doesn't likely happen to most since their view range is much higher than 20-30) 09:08 tenplus1 hi folks 09:18 DS-minetest hi tenplus1 09:19 tenplus1 heyas :P 09:20 tenplus1 http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/3d9f88f9-laziness-here-i-come.jpg 09:34 tenplus1 hi cx384 09:34 cx384 hello tenplus1 09:45 tenplus1 hi fixer 10:12 Amaz Morning all :) 10:12 tenplus1 hi Amaz 10:12 Amaz Hello ten! 10:13 Calinou hi :) 10:13 tenplus1 hi Cal 10:15 tenplus1 wait, what ??? I got one approval and it was immediately removed ?!?!?! https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543 10:17 Amaz Is it because Zeno isn't a MTG dev?? 10:17 Amaz (I don't really follow MTG, so I may be completely wrong.) 10:18 tenplus1 weird, if he wasn't how could he one approval it 10:18 Amaz http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2017-06-07#i_4963824 10:19 tenplus1 hi Darcidride 10:19 tenplus1 ouch, he broke da rules 10:19 Amaz I think that he has access to the repository, because he's a Minetest dev, but he's not technically a _game dev, and therefore, while he can add labels and such, he's not allowed to... 10:19 Amaz Complicated :P 10:20 Darcidride Hi everyone 10:20 Amaz Hi Darcidride :) 10:22 tenplus1 am kinda glad I dont hang out in -dev if that's the sorta thing that happens 10:22 tenplus1 I just wanna make the game better 10:24 paramat he just added an approval by mistake :] 10:25 tenplus1 hi paramat 10:26 tenplus1 cant we just add the 'creative' privelage already... many server owners would like such a feature and it gives a damn good use to the minetest.is_creative(name) <--- nothing uses name at the moment 10:26 Shara I don't understand why it ever wasn't there :P 10:26 tenplus1 we use it on Xanadu to reward builders and it works really well 10:27 Shara It's such a basic thing, and quite vital in my opinion 10:27 Shara We use it on DL as well. 10:27 tenplus1 hi Shara 10:28 Shara Hi :) 10:33 paramat i'll look at it again, sorry for slow mtg dev, sofar is not around 10:33 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543 10:37 paramat is it tested? 10:37 tenplus1 yes, I've been running it on Xanadu 10:37 tenplus1 no problems 10:37 Shara Darklands also uses what might be a slightly older version 10:38 tenplus1 I can issue 'creative' priv to anyone giving them access to creative inventory and unlimited placement 10:38 Shara Again, no issues 10:38 paramat and it looks like you addressed sofar's issue? 10:38 tenplus1 what issue ? 10:38 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543#issuecomment-277432165 10:39 tenplus1 ah yes... when they sign on with creative the get the appropriate inventory 10:40 paramat the priv code is in creative mod so i assume this is what he was asking for? 10:40 tenplus1 yes 10:40 tenplus1 everything in creative mod 10:40 paramat =1 10:40 paramat +1 10:40 paramat hehe 10:40 tenplus1 it only adds 1 priv and amends 1 line.. it's not a huge pull 10:40 tenplus1 but gives a ton of possibility for survival servers 10:41 paramat the support from server owners means i +1, it's a good idea anyway 10:41 paramat sorry it took a while 10:41 tenplus1 thx dude, appreciated 10:42 paramat sofar seems +0.5 10:43 tenplus1 1.5 is good enough :P 10:43 paramat for you heh 10:43 tenplus1 :) hopefully sfan5 will reconsider and re-add approval *hope* 10:43 tenplus1 :3 10:43 Shara I almost abandoned the idea of DL when I found this priv was missing.... So I was just glad Ten had a mod for it 10:46 paramat ah just saw the list of thumbs-up emoticons, missed that 10:47 tenplus1 :P 10:52 red-NaN tenplus1, we don't use math.round for PR apporval counts 10:52 red-NaN we use math.floor 10:52 tenplus1 *cough* math.round(pr + 0.5) 10:53 red-NaN math.ceil(pr) 10:53 tenplus1 ehehehe 10:56 tenplus1 nom time :PP brb 11:07 Fixer tenplus1: Zeno is not mtg dev, that was approved by mistake 11:07 tenplus1 is ok 11:16 tenplus1 hi nathan 11:16 NathanS21 hi tenplus1 11:30 IhrFussel tenplus1, not sure what it's like in MTG but in the Minetest repository even I can add approvals...shouldn't there be a way to prevent regular/non-member users from approving? 11:31 tenplus1 I kinda thoguht if you were a dev in one project it would only allow you to do things to that one 11:33 IhrFussel IIRC minetest and minetest_game aren't really separated but celeron55 said he would look into splitting them up in a few weeks when he finds more time 11:34 red-NaN IhrFussel, github approvals != merge approvals 11:34 red-NaN plus github approvals by a non-team member show up in a diffrent colour 11:35 IhrFussel red-NaN, yes but why can regular users even aprrove then? Is there no setting to just allow it for members/devs? 11:35 red-NaN to stop "+1" spam 11:35 red-NaN and it's a larger sign of support then just adding a "+1" to the orginal post 11:36 IhrFussel I understand the purpose of the feature, but in MT at least core devs don't want to see regular users approving 11:37 red-NaN it's not a issue since it's evident that the approval is from a community member not a dev 11:37 red-NaN I don't think it even makes the PR show up as "approved" 11:37 IhrFussel Not exactly an issue but I saw a non-member approval somewhere and they were told to remove it cause it "confuses the core devs" 11:38 red-NaN oh that was a diffrent issue 11:38 red-NaN are you talking about the incident yesterday on -dev? 11:38 red-NaN that was a minetest core dev accidently adding a "one approval" lable to a minetest game PR 11:39 IhrFussel Nope what I mean was a few weeks ago...I also read the stuff about Zeno but I wasn't sure if he's a "regular user" in MTG 11:39 red-NaN minetest uses lables to track the number of approvals 11:39 * red-NaN shrugs 11:40 tenplus1 hi red 11:40 IhrFussel Yes I know they use labels...but still they don't want regulars to add approvals cause of confusion so I wonder why they don't simply restrict the approvals (if it's possible) 11:40 red-NaN well an approval is meant to indicate that you read the source code and it looks good to you, not just agreeing with the idea 11:41 tenplus1 +1 11:41 red-NaN well maybe they could restrict approvals to contributers then 11:41 red-NaN that will still allow people to help devs with code review 11:43 IhrFussel Aren't regulars even "allowed" to review source code? I think I only saw core devs and sometimes contributors doing it 11:43 IhrFussel Are regulars* 11:44 red-NaN well I would say anyone is 11:44 tenplus1 hi lumidify 11:44 Shara Telling people they can't comment about the code would be silly. 11:44 red-NaN but I can't say that everyones review will be taken seriouslu 11:44 lumidify Hi tenplus1 11:45 red-NaN seriously* 11:45 tenplus1 comments and thumbs up are welcome by all... 11:45 tenplus1 approvals by those who can incorporate changes into mt and has looked at code 11:45 Shara Whether or not devs pay any attention to a certain person's reviews or opinions though is going to depend on the person and the quality of what they produce 11:47 Shara If someone hasn't got a clue about code, then them commenting on it won't help anyone much. But clearly some contributors do have a clue, or they wouldn't contribute so much 11:47 IhrFussel RE: Shadow glitch ... I left yesterday with the glitch happening...and guess what? It persists...I have one more suspicious candidate for the cause "wieldview" mod but why would it cause such a major glitch? 11:55 tenplus1 wieldview only updates the textures for the player model, it shouldnt affect lighting or shadows 11:55 IhrFussel Nope, it still happens...then I have no clue must be in-engine likely...EVEN after server restart it glitches... 11:56 tenplus1 lemmie run a session and see if it happens 11:56 IhrFussel And it stops glitching as soon as I get close to some kind of wall...that sounds like a collision detection problem 11:58 IhrFussel tenplus1, make sure your view range is 20-30 and you fly into ungenerated map areas (that's how it happens most relaibly) 11:58 IhrFussel reliably* 11:59 tenplus1 seems ok here, using wieldview as well.... do you have any voxelmanip mods running ? 12:00 IhrFussel mesecons, nether and mobs 12:00 IhrFussel I grepped for "voxelmanip" 12:01 tenplus1 light levels for wielditem's brightness reset to 0 in unloaded/ignored areas of map 12:01 tenplus1 some voxelmanip mods can mess with light levels in the map 12:03 tenplus1 try a fresh world with all mods disabled (except 3d_armor and wieldview) and see if it still happens 12:03 tenplus1 I only see wielditem darken when I fly into a new area and once it generates it's back to normal... 12:04 IhrFussel tenplus1, you need to watch it a little longer it only happens every 10 - 20 secs once (the blinking) 12:05 IhrFussel I removed mobs, nether and mesecons...still the same 12:05 tenplus1 I've had it running 10 mins now and nothing out of the ordinart 12:05 tenplus1 what gfx card u got ? 12:05 IhrFussel Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 12:06 IhrFussel But why would it be a GPU issue if it only happens in certain situations on the map? 12:07 IhrFussel I will try to run the server with no mods enabled (except for areas) 12:07 tenplus1 hi talus 12:10 IhrFussel NOPE, it still happens with NO custom mods enabled...that confirms to me it's an engine bug 12:11 tenplus1 is this on a fresh world ????? 12:11 tenplus1 has to be a new world otherwise voxelmanip light issues can still affect it 12:20 IhrFussel No it was on my server world...can't reproduce it in local game right now, but I know for a fact that the exact same glitch didn't happen in 0.4.15-dev before May 12:21 tenplus1 it definitely sounds like voxelmanip lighting issues... I run caverealms_lite on Xanadu and it has the odd light issue when standing in certain spots 12:22 tenplus1 hi RobbieF 12:22 RobbieF Tenplus1 nice to see you! 12:22 tenplus1 hows things ? 12:22 Calinou hi RobbieF :) 12:23 RobbieF Doing great--a busy couple days (a little too busy) but doing well thanks. How about you? 12:23 RobbieF Hi Calinou! Been a while. How you been? 12:23 tenplus1 tinkering with lucky blocks :P 12:23 tenplus1 thinking of new one's to add 12:23 IhrFussel STOP it happened in singleplayer! Engine bug confirmed 12:23 Calinou RobbieF: currently in an internship, but it's going meh so far, I feel 12:23 Calinou IhrFussel: Half-Life Bug confirmed? 12:23 Calinou ;) 12:24 RobbieF aww... well, make the best of it, as well as you can Calinou. 12:28 IhrFussel tenplus1, you need to fly FAST through ungenerated areas with noclip ENABLED...that's when it happens...also it barely blinks in singleplayer because there is no lag 12:29 tenplus1 that's exactly what I've been doing and it only blinks because player is standing inside ignore block with light levels of 0 before it's generated 12:29 IhrFussel Noo I will upload another video of singleplayer showing that I stand in midair for 1 minute and it continues to blink sometimes 12:29 tenplus1 it doesnt happen when standing still UNLESS inside of a glitched light area from a voxelmanip issue 12:30 tenplus1 I was flying for 10 whole minutes and never happened once 12:30 tenplus1 while standing still 12:30 IhrFussel Is your view range at 20? 12:30 tenplus1 yeh 12:30 IhrFussel I will show you the video as soon as it finished rendering 12:31 tenplus1 ok 12:31 IhrFussel But you'll need to watch VERY closely as it only happens for ~ 0.1 secs (since there is no serverstep lag in SP) 12:32 tenplus1 I tested in a local server, not singleplayer 12:32 IhrFussel I'll watch it first and then tell you a timestamp to skip to 12:33 IhrFussel It doesn't matter..it happens on my 0.4.16-dev server and in singleplayer 12:33 paramat so still happens in singleplayer with no mods? 12:33 IhrFussel Yes 12:33 paramat weird 12:33 tenplus1 gotta test it in a fresh world tho 12:34 IhrFussel But the time it gets dark DEPENDS on the server_step setting 12:34 IhrFussel It was a new world 12:34 tenplus1 kk 12:35 IhrFussel http://ihrfussels-server.tk/mt4.mp4 @ 21 secs 12:39 tenplus1 it happens every 20 seconds or 12:40 tenplus1 and that was on a fresh world with no mods ? 12:41 IhrFussel Just the default mods AFAIK 12:41 IhrFussel Yep minetest_game only 12:42 IhrFussel I could try to play without MTG 12:42 tenplus1 does it happen when you increase view range to 40 ? 12:44 IhrFussel Right now it didn't stop to glitch but increasing viewing range to 250 doesn't fix a *current* glitch at least 12:47 tenplus1 do you have shaders on or off? 12:47 IhrFussel Off 12:47 tenplus1 same... it really doesnt happen here... 12:47 tenplus1 dunno if running old opengl might have issue 12:49 IhrFussel That makes no sense, why does it stop glitching at walls? 12:50 IhrFussel An OpenGL issue would likely be persistent and not depend on ingame pos, OpenGL doesn't even know what an ingame pos is 12:54 IhrFussel It MAY be possible that my computer is just old enough to NOTICE the bug...but a bug is still a bug and it prevents me from enjopying the game properly since it makes me STOP every time it happens 12:54 tenplus1 can you show your minetest.conf file in a pastebin link plz 12:56 IhrFussel Sure...I don't think it's related though since my local game and my server use completely different config files 12:56 red-NaN when did this bug start appearing? 12:59 IhrFussel In 0.4.15-dev...I think between Apr and May 12:59 IhrFussel https://pastebin.com/q6iiftsA 12:59 Stone-Talus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwsem2Lxvb0 13:00 IhrFussel And yes I have the view range, max saved blocks etc at very low values but those never caused issues before 13:01 red-NaN well if you could try and bisect it 13:01 red-NaN if you can figure out the approximate time at which it apperead and/or have a lot of free time 13:03 IhrFussel IF it is caused by a mistake in a PR then it's likely one about lighting/collision detection or mapblock save/load changes..I can try to filter those out a bit later 13:04 tenplus1 server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 20 .. could be unloading every 20 seconds and renewing light levels for your sword 13:04 tenplus1 change to 30 and see if it happens every 30 seconds 13:05 IhrFussel tenplus1, that's the local game config..server says server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 300 13:06 IhrFussel But I could try to increase all CLIENT settings and see if it still happens 13:06 tenplus1 check that one 1st... 13:08 IhrFussel 30 is too little to notice a difference..I'll try 60 13:09 tenplus1 in the mp3 you showed it would darken every 20 seconds... setting to 30 would let you see at least if it happened every 30 13:11 tenplus1 hi octacian 13:11 octacian hey tenplus1 :D 13:12 IhrFussel Nope still happens every 10 - 20 secs 13:13 tenplus1 only other 20 second time I see is the server_map_save_interval = 20 ... but that shouldnt affect light levels 13:14 IhrFussel I set that to 60...still every 10 - 20 secs 13:16 red-NaN could you see if fps_max has an effect on it? 13:17 IhrFussel I can say so much: The time it REMAINS black depends on the LOAD...if I fly into heavy terrain it stays black for longer...yes I'll try that red-NaN 13:18 red-NaN huh the craftitem being black inside unload terrain is normal enough 13:18 red-NaN but you need noclip for that to happen 13:20 IhrFussel red-NaN, yes the glitch is triggered by flying through nodes with noclip it seems...and then sometimes it just seems to THINK that you're still underground or inside a solid node every few secs 13:23 IhrFussel And it stops glitching as soon as you're NEAR solid nodes (like a wall) 13:23 tenplus1 is on_flood set for 'air' ? 13:24 tenplus1 hi twoelk 13:24 twoelk hi :-) 13:29 tenplus1 wb paramat 13:31 paramat ^ please disable auto greetings for me 13:31 tenplus1 :P 13:36 paramat Ihrfussel 'client_mapblock_limit = 15' this is far too low, not sure if it affects bug though 13:36 IhrFussel paramat, I increased it now to 30 and will see if it helps with the glitch 13:37 paramat 30 is still far too low :] 13:38 tenplus1 Lucky Blocks updated with a few fixes and new blocks :) 13:38 paramat 27 = 3x3x3 blocks, the client can only store mesh data to a distance of 24 nodes from a player 13:39 paramat default is 5000 which uses up to about 1GB RAM 13:42 IhrFussel It is very likely a client setting causing it since none of my other active players experienced it yet AFAIK 13:43 IhrFussel Plus it happens in singleplayer 13:44 paramat server_map_save_interval is matybe too high? default is 5s 13:44 paramat *maybe 13:45 IhrFussel It's server_map_save_interval = 15.3 on my server 13:46 nerzhul what is your map backend ? 13:46 IhrFussel SQLite 13:46 paramat hm i'm not sure what is optimal, but i suspect higher interval means a heavier load 13:46 nerzhul if you have I/O problems when writing your database on a server, use postgresql 13:47 tenplus1 would converting an sql to postgresql be an advantage ? 13:47 tenplus1 hi Jordach 13:48 red-NaN We should consider banning mods that use precompiled bytecode from the forum 13:48 red-NaN it undermines the whole point of mod security 13:48 tenplus1 o.O which mods use that ? 13:48 red-NaN that anticheat mod by rnd 13:49 red-NaN I mean the whole sitution is kinda ridicles 13:49 red-NaN the second result on google for "Lua JIT decompiler" successfully decompiles the code 13:51 paramat IhrFussel 'client_unload_unused_data_timeout = 30' seems too low also, default is 10 mins 13:51 red-NaN the decomplier is even nice enough to recover the names of locals and lay the code out nicely 13:52 paramat i have a weird feeling you have turned down all your settings too far to the point where it causes problems 13:52 tenplus1 agreed 13:53 red-NaN https://paste.ee/p/4QvmW 13:53 IhrFussel But it worked before with the exact same settings...so some commit must've raised the "required settings to run fine" 13:53 paramat 'trees = true' 'caves = true' 'dungeons = true' have no effect 13:53 paramat yeah maybe 13:54 IhrFussel Like I said the last compiled version without that glitch was Apr 24 13:55 IhrFussel But since I only update my server version every 1 - 2 months I can't tell when exactly it started happening 13:56 octacian Is it possible to change the transparency of an entity? Specifically, the player 13:57 tenplus1 entity textures are either fully transparant or not... no inbetween 13:57 paramat i think even the android app has settings higher than this 13:57 octacian Oh well, was hoping to be able to extend my invisibility mod to allow setting to a specific level of transparency 13:58 tenplus1 you have an invisibility mod also ? 13:58 tenplus1 hi lisac 13:58 red-NaN !tell lisac hi 13:58 ShadowBot red-NaN: O.K. 14:00 tenplus1 wb raven 14:00 Raven262 Thanks, tenplus1 14:00 Raven262 That was connection problem, not a leave of mine actually. 14:03 red-NaN !tell red-NaN test 14:03 ShadowBot red-NaN: O.K. 14:07 paramat IhrFussel 'max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 2' possibly too low. i would try the default android configuration and see if the bug is fixed, or even the default desktop config (but with client_mapblock_limit reduced to match your available client RAM) 14:11 IhrFussel active_block_range = 1 max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 5 active_object_send_range_blocks = 1 max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = 80 max_block_send_distance = 4 max_block_generate_distance = 5 14:11 IhrFussel Those are the server settings 14:15 paramat since it happens in your local singleplayer game best work with your singleplayer config for now 14:18 sfan5 what kind of machine do you run that server one? 14:18 sfan5 on* 14:23 octacian Why is it seemingly impossible to entirely disable the sneak glitch? 14:23 octacian tenplus1: And yes, I have an invisibility mod. You even commented on it once :P 14:24 octacian So, I've tried disabling new_move and sneak_glitch, however, it just causes the game to revert back to the original sneak glitch due to the fact that for some ridiculous reason both physics settings seem to mean the same though. Any thoughts? 14:24 octacian (I'm trying to make a fence that you can't jump over) 14:24 tenplus1 lol, must have forgotten :) ahahah 14:24 octacian heh 14:25 tenplus1 if you wanna keep players out of an area make fence 2 high 14:29 paramat disabling 'new move' means you are now using the old move code which includes sneak ladders and sneak jump 14:30 tenplus1 is the falling damage bug been fixed for that one ? 14:30 paramat oh fences with a tall collisionbox cause sneak-jump to work when it should not 14:31 paramat there's an issue for that 14:31 tenplus1 w00t 14:32 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5861 14:32 Fixer sfan5: is new luajit-2.1.0-beta3 compiled with GC64 enabled? 14:32 sfan5 no 14:33 Jordach *autistic screeching* 14:33 Jordach GC64 needs to be default for 64bit builts 14:33 Jordach -t +d 14:34 sfan5 i've had it segfault when using lots of memory here 14:34 Jordach hitting the OOM cap at literally fucking 52MB is piss poor for a VM that wants performance 14:34 sfan5 wouldn't want to put that into production 14:34 Jordach label em experimental 14:34 Calinou when you label something experimental, it actually triples its user count :^) 14:35 tenplus1 lol 14:35 Jordach i can hear the sarcasm, Calinou 14:35 Calinou "Built-in ads - EXPERIMENTAL" 14:35 Calinou "In-app purchases - EXPERIMENTAL" 14:35 Calinou there, now we can make money 14:35 paramat the displayed memory use at OOM is not the memory use that causes OOM apparently 14:35 octacian tenplus1: They can still get over it using sneak glitch 14:36 octacian paramat: I tried setting both new_move and sneak_glitch to false, I even tried them one-by-one 14:36 Fixer Jordach: i'm curious myself, why the fuck it OOMs at 20-50mb of lua mem used? Last time I tested Dreambuilder mem use was 80mb at most and then it just dies with lua oom 14:36 Jordach Fixer, LuaJIT problems 14:37 Jordach i've got specialist mapgen hooks as part pf Solar Plains which takes a huge amount of memory for bizzare reasons 14:37 Fixer dreambuilder is unusable for me on windows, 5-10 min of simple walk and it is over 14:37 octacian Wait, I see. So for some reason the sneak glitch still works specifically on nodes with a higher collision box. Ohk 14:38 sfan5 just use the noluajit build 14:38 sfan5 it's not *that* slow 14:38 twoelk Fixer: same problem if you use a client without LuaJIT? 14:38 Jordach just because i've got a pretty good IPC on my CPU 14:38 Jordach doesn't mean i should use the slower option 14:38 nerzhul dreambuilder is relatively slow and requires some architecture rewrite :p 14:39 Fixer Jordach: darkage mod that I love coupled with tons of other mods triggered almost instant on_generated lua OOM on game start on server subgame i tested, it is crazy 14:39 Fixer sfan5: yeah, i'm using it 14:39 Jordach can't wait for LuaJIT to go GC64 14:39 Fixer sfan5: you still feel the slowness of it particularly in unified inventory 14:40 Fixer Jordach: it is already GC64... but smth is buggy 14:40 Fixer beta3 includes it 14:40 sfan5 gc64 is not enabled by default 14:40 Fixer i even managed to use >2 gb of mem with it, but after 20-30 seconds it just crashes for some reason 14:40 Fixer luajit related crash 14:41 Fixer nerzhul: architecture rewrite? lol, it is modpack 14:41 tenplus1 is ther eno way to increase the luajit limit ? 14:41 Jordach no way 14:41 Jordach minetest should switch to a python library 14:42 Fixer meanwhile i'm very triggered by homedecor modpack external dependancy on unified dyes :( 14:42 Jordach Kappa 14:42 Fixer Jordach: Pythha 14:42 Fixer modpack is supposed to contain everything inside 14:42 twoelk so darkage and dreambuilder have some troublesome code in common? 14:42 tenplus1 agreed... the reason am using such an older version of homedecor on servert 14:42 Jordach i will mention this 14:43 Jordach VManip has titanic memory leaks even with LOCAL 14:43 Fixer twoelk: i can name two: darkage and technic_worldgen, both generate ores and other stuff at mapgen and this often causes OOM 14:44 tenplus1 darkage needs to convert it's ores to the default oregen/mapgen 14:44 twoelk is darkage still alive? 14:44 Thomas-S yes, it is. Here: https://bitbucket.org/adrido/darkage 14:45 tenplus1 I would have thought darkage and castle mod would have merged since it's almost same nodes... and fixed the ores 14:45 Jordach meanwhile MC doesn't give a sngle fuck about RAM usage provided you've got as much as it needs 14:46 tenplus1 lolol 14:46 tenplus1 mc almost killed my net-top pc 14:46 paramat Jordach are you using these memory use optimisations? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16043 14:46 Jordach i legit give it 8-12GB of RAM to avoid the dreaded GC thread bug 14:46 Calinou Jordach: do you play it with mods? 14:46 Calinou unmodded, the default JVM settings should work fine 14:46 Jordach Calinou, 1.10x 14:47 Calinou no need to set -Xms over 2 GB really 14:47 Calinou or -Xmx 14:47 Jordach i like mods 14:47 Calinou (plus, it'll break things sometimes, I remember trying huge values and it crashed on start) 14:47 Calinou VoxelMap and OptiFine are all you need :D 14:47 paramat vmanip does not have a memory leak as far as we know, that's different to 'using lots of memory' 14:52 twoelk maybe someone knowledgable of the current abbilities and standards of mapgen in minetest core should review the most popular mods that might use old mapgen techniques and place issues that make the modders aware of the possible solution ;-) 14:52 tenplus1 good idea 14:54 tenplus1 so far caverealms_lite hasnt given an oom error so must be using newer techniques :P https://github.com/Zeno-/caverealms_lite 15:02 sfan5 Jordach: have fun with some crashes :^) https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/minetest-0.4.16-gc64-win64.7z 15:04 nerzhul Fixer, modpack != good code 15:04 nerzhul when server lag on servetthread it's in 95% cases because the on_step callback is slow due to too many events for 1 step 15:04 nerzhul modders who wants many features should understand to dispatch their events 15:05 tenplus1 that's why I put timers on on_step so it's not running all the time 15:06 nerzhul tenplus1, yes 15:07 Jordach ofuk techmoan video 15:09 Jordach i'm really tempted to re-write the Main Menu to not use FSTK 15:11 Calinou just theme the Irrlicht GUI, I believe SuperTuxKart has done it 15:11 Jordach Calinou, you underestimate my power 15:11 Calinou also make font_size automatically adjust with screen resolution... 15:11 Calinou why is that not done in 2017 ^ 15:11 tenplus1 +1 15:12 Calinou on my desktop, I use font_size like 25, and mono_font_size like 23 15:12 Calinou (need to check again) 15:12 rubenwardy if you're rewriting things, I suggest separating logic from the views 15:12 Calinou the default font is tiny even for 1920x1080, and this is 2560x1440 15:12 rubenwardy ie: mod logic should not be in tab_mods or whatever 15:12 Jordach Calinou, i also have a friggin ultrawide 15:12 rubenwardy it should be in a separate "class" which knows nothing about formspecs 15:13 rubenwardy be warned that octacian is also working on the mainmenu (the mod part, more specifically) 15:13 octacian I'm also working on a few other parts. Not just mods. Subgames, textures packs, configure. :rofl: 15:14 octacian Jordach: If you rewrite the main menu to not use fstk, I'd personally be really happy :D 15:14 * tenplus1 adds a pull to change main menu to comic sans 14 15:14 octacian I've considered doing it myself, but won't have time for a while. 15:14 Calinou we could switch the default to Droid Sans, too 15:15 Calinou Liberation Sans is a bit... boring 15:15 Calinou (ultimately, it's a metric-compatible Arial) 15:15 Calinou (which is not exactly the best-looking font today) 15:15 sfan5 lets switch to comic sans ms 15:15 rubenwardy something like sfinv would be nice for the main menu. Much simpler and cleaner 15:16 octacian I'd like a tab-less main menu personally. Particularly for Android 15:16 rubenwardy sfinv is tabless 15:17 rubenwardy it's designed so that you can replace the navigation with something other than tabs 15:17 octacian Really? 15:17 rubenwardy using make_formspec 15:17 octacian I see. 15:17 Jordach rubenwardy, was thinking of allowing redefinition of the mainmenu 15:17 rubenwardy it just defaults to tabs, as that's the current MT way 15:17 rubenwardy that too, Jordach 15:17 rubenwardy does fstk allow redefinition of pages easily? 15:17 Jordach *no* 15:17 octacian Yes, if subgames to redefine the main menu that would be really useful 15:17 Jordach it's a monolithic kernel, so to speak 15:18 rubenwardy ew 15:18 tenplus1 hi DS-minetest 15:18 DS-minetest hi tenplus1 15:18 rubenwardy my intent with sfinv has always been to eventually port it to the main menu 15:18 * tenplus1 just noticed that his gfx card (nvidia ion.2) is 6 years old already :) eheh 15:19 Jordach my GPU is almost 1 year old (XFX RX 480 Reference) 15:19 octacian Well, if someone doesn't do those main menu things soon, just know that I will :P 15:21 rubenwardy it's not high on my todo list currently 15:21 octacian Until it gets done, Android won't be very nice overall though 15:25 tenplus1 http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/2ec55bea-it-feels-like-you-don-t-carrot-all.jpg 15:37 rubenwardy have you voted, tenplus1? :) 15:37 tenplus1 uk election ? 15:37 rubenwardy yeah, you're Scottish, right? 15:37 tenplus1 yeah... and no... dont trust any of the parties 15:38 rubenwardy neither do I 15:38 tenplus1 [x] None of the above 15:38 rubenwardy have you at least spoiled your ballet in that case? 15:38 rubenwardy it's better than not voting 15:38 rubenwardy assuming they count spoiled ballets accurately 15:38 tenplus1 heh... the illusion of free choice :P 15:39 rubenwardy it is 15:39 rubenwardy with a spoiled ballet, they at least get an indication of how many people are disillisioned 15:40 tenplus1 hence the [x] None of the above :PPPPPPP 15:40 rubenwardy ah, kk 15:40 tenplus1 it's the same as always, they promise the world and then refuse to do anything... 15:41 rubenwardy or with the conservatives, they promise the worse and still do it, whilst still breaking promises 15:41 * tenplus1 flies to Mars 15:50 paramat they're not exactly equally as bad obviously, so best to vote for the least evil, otherwise you waste your little bit of influence, because unfortunately 'none of the above' is not an option and is counted as 'spoiled' 15:50 tenplus1 ooh, firefox tweaks really help :) memory usage has stabilized around 700mb and I'm on youtube playing vids 15:51 paramat (it's not an option because that option would win hehe) 15:52 twoelk I helped counting votes in the last local election - people do get pretty creative in expressing their votes 15:53 tenplus1 I kinda wish the "Raving Looney Party" was still a thing... would vote for them just to upset the balance 15:55 paramat i don't 'trust' any of them either. but if you don't use the tiny influence you have then you are stating 'i don't care about anything' which is obviously not true i'm sure 15:56 twoelk we had the pirates party get pretty popular a few years back - they got into local parlament and got confrated with political reality - they pretty much were voted out of everything this time 15:56 tenplus1 shame 15:57 rubenwardy spoiling your vote isn't the same as not voting, it's stating you don't like the candidates rather than you don't care 15:57 tenplus1 I'd love to have a proper working forum in britain... 12 people from all walks of life changed each year instead of parties 15:58 rubenwardy I didn't spoil my vote however 15:58 Jordach sfan5, testing GC64 15:58 Jordach HOLY SHIT 15:58 tenplus1 ? 15:58 paramat ruben yeah i know, but that's how it is interpreted 15:58 sfan5 did it crash yet 15:58 Jordach not even during mapgen 15:58 Jordach when doing trees 15:59 rubenwardy paramat, only a moron would interpret it that way - why would you bother to turn up to vote if you didn't care? 15:59 Jordach sfan5, it's doing mapgen even faster than without GC64 15:59 tenplus1 any disadvantages in using GC64 ??? 16:00 paramat 'interpreted by the state' 16:00 Jordach can crash randomly 16:00 Jordach as in. not finished JIT compiler 16:00 tenplus1 damn 16:00 Jordach but Solar Plains runs fine 16:00 sfan5 you're better of using noluajit if you can accept the speed disadvantage 16:01 paramat 'spoiled' also includes those who just made a huge mess or crossed too many boxes, it has no democratic message and is not counted as 'no confidence' 16:01 Jordach sfan5, GC64 is so fast INTRO fails to activate properly 16:01 Jordach at a whopping 1:2 chance of not working at all 16:02 sfan5 Jordach: s/fast/broken/ 16:02 paramat .. so it's a waste of your tiny bit of power, which is a shame 16:02 tenplus1 -.- 16:02 Jordach trying to find the forests 16:02 Jordach those usually crash JIT 16:04 Jordach 108 trees grown after: 0.13s 16:04 Jordach 98 trees grown after: 0.13s 16:04 Jordach would usually take 1-2 seconds on regular 32bit JIT 16:04 tenplus1 nice 16:04 Jordach or crash JIT directly 16:04 Jordach average treegen time is 0.02s 16:06 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jordach/b94e3b43f88a8a8d74749b85185ec81a 16:06 Jordach statistics 16:08 Jordach sfan5, got a link to a normie build with JIT 16:09 Jordach not GC64 16:09 sfan5 official win64 16:09 Shara I think I already hate CSM, but not for any of the reasons people mentioned so far... 16:10 * tenplus1 wants a server switch to disable CSM completely for client-side also 16:10 Shara Sick of seeing colour code garbage spamming my server's IRC channel. :( 16:10 red-NaN Shara, so why did you join the club? 16:11 red-NaN Shara, update your IRC mod 16:11 Shara It's been updated to cope with this lunacy then? 16:11 Shara I'm actually going to start banning players who use that mod otherwise 16:11 red-NaN I made a PR to fix that ages ago, even before CSM was allowed to send chat 16:11 rubenwardy Shara, make a mod to filter it out 16:11 rubenwardy what's the escape for color? 16:12 sfan5 Jordach: i think average time per tree might be better 16:12 red-NaN rubenwardy, minetest includes a function to strip colours already 16:12 Shara rubenwardy: I'm tired of making mods to deal with things like this. 16:12 rubenwardy ah, ok 16:12 red-NaN Shara, just update the mod 16:12 Shara red-NaN: YEs, will later thanks. 16:12 red-NaN or mannually apply the change I made 16:12 Shara Though I also have issues of players who think it's cool to type in black so no one can read them 16:12 Jordach 67 trees grown after: 0.10s 16:12 Jordach :thinking: 16:13 Jordach win64 16:13 Jordach no GC64 16:13 Jordach 95 trees grown after: 0.12s 16:13 Shara red-NaN: Is there a way to make a CSM mod to choose what colour you see for everything, instead of seeing what other people choose? 16:13 Shara That would be much nicer... 16:14 red-NaN Shara, chat6 16:14 Shara I don't want my chat looking like a rainbow. :) 16:14 Jordach sfan5, from fly-over mapgen testing: seems to be like 5% speed boost 16:14 Shara chat6? 16:14 red-NaN see that for an example 16:14 red-NaN Shara, search github for that 16:15 * Shara adds to endless list 16:17 Shara I finally have time to work on mods again, but it's scary to realise just how many mods that means working on 16:18 Fuchs hope the exams went well, then :) 16:18 Shara Fuchs: Thank you. Got a good feeling about them at least :) 16:18 tenplus1 especially with latest changes 16:18 Fuchs good :) 16:18 tenplus1 for results shara 16:19 Shara And don't worry. Doing more with that fox mob is still on my to do list :) 16:20 Fixer tenplus1: nvidia ion.2 is hardly a videocard 16:20 Shara Thanks Ten :) 16:20 tenplus1 I like my wee net-top and it's video card :) has done me proud for years 16:24 Shara Oh lovely. Now someone playing with the hi spam mod on my server. 16:24 Shara Can we please get a way to just outright block CSM? 16:25 Shara It is giving me nothing but headaches. 16:25 tenplus1 +10000000... server owners need a way to disable csm 16:25 red-NaN meh it's too late now 16:25 red-NaN the wheels of CSM had already been set in motion 16:26 tenplus1 damn... 16:26 red-NaN plus it would be hard to do techincaly 16:26 Shara I'm actually considering adding CSM use to bannable offences on my server. 16:26 red-NaN we still have to be able to load builtin 16:26 Fixer but those GC64 luajit related crashes... they will not fix themselvs if they are not reported to the devs 16:26 red-NaN so someone could just paste thier stuff into CSM 16:26 red-NaN + builtin 16:26 Shara red-NaN: It's horrible. 16:27 red-NaN Shara, how so? 16:27 Fixer Shara: what mod? 16:27 Shara The spam that just ripped through chat on RC is proof enough 16:27 red-NaN Shara, whats the channel? 16:27 Shara I was getting long lines of HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII from people for every time someone signed in 16:27 Shara (many more Is than that) 16:28 red-NaN Shara, kick/ban for spam 16:28 Shara I've told them I'll ban if I see any more of it. 16:28 Fixer Shara: just kick/ban those Hi players 16:28 red-NaN ^ 16:28 red-NaN thats one dumb mod 16:28 Shara Fixer, they are regular players who didn't realise 16:28 Shara They are just, as is natural, experimenting. 16:28 paramat preventing client-provided clientmods is not impossible 16:28 red-NaN Shara, mute them then 16:29 Shara So banning them right away wouldn't be fair or right of me 16:29 Shara But it's still a huge headache. 16:29 paramat .. and is necessary 16:29 Shara paramat: please make it happen. 16:29 red-NaN paramat, as far as I'm conserced it is 16:29 red-NaN unless you want to checksum builtin on client compile 16:30 paramat nerz intends banning by feature 'flavour', so banning all flavours will be possible 16:30 red-NaN but buitlin will still need access to some of them 16:30 red-NaN otherwise the client will break 16:31 DS-minetest i could change the mod to make it possible to disable it, eg. with a special chat message like "stop the hiing". but some players could maybe be able to delete that again 16:31 paramat ok, but chat mods will be bannable 16:31 Shara I want to control how chat appears on my own server. 16:31 Shara I do not want players controlling it. 16:31 tenplus1 agreed, if anyone spams chat with csm mod on Xanadu it's an instant ban 16:31 red-NaN DS-minetest, please consider getting rid of that mod 16:31 paramat *should be bannable 16:31 red-NaN it might be part of the -hub starter pack 16:32 Shara I've had players sending messages in black coloured text.... 16:32 paramat yeah as i predicted https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5915 16:32 red-NaN Shara, how about we add a server-sided way to remove colour? 16:33 Shara And what if I want it so that admins/moderators have their text a certain colour to identify themselves? 16:33 Shara It should be the server owner deciding these things. 16:33 red-NaN that will also stop modded clients and people manunaly entering colour codes 16:33 Shara red-NaN: please do. 16:33 Shara And preferably, make it default. 16:34 red-NaN I would prefer to make it default to off, a lot of server owners might not mind 16:34 rubenwardy the server needs to validate these things 16:34 red-NaN huh what does IRC default to? 16:34 red-NaN on freenode that is 16:35 red-NaN is colour enabled on freenode by default or off? 16:35 DS-minetest hopefully #5917 will kill hi 16:36 paramat "how about we add a server-sided way to remove colour?" chat CSM needs to be a 'flavour' which is disallowable 16:36 DS-minetest can't you just copy the color char into chat? 16:36 red-NaN DS-minetest, you can 16:36 red-NaN it's pretty easy 16:36 paramat most server owners will mind, you can see how it is already irritating one admin 16:37 red-NaN but minetest broke copy and paste as a security messure 16:37 Fuchs red-NaN: freenode should not be used for in-game chat in general, really 16:37 red-NaN so we don't have to deal with annoying copy and paste 16:37 red-NaN Fuchs, I was just wondering what freenodes default is 16:37 Fuchs but to answer your question: +c is not part of the default 16:37 Fuchs so colours are allowed by default 16:37 * DS-minetest doesn't see the problem with colors. he tolerates every color, not only white 16:37 red-NaN ok 16:37 Shara It's ingame black text on a black background that is really annoying to me. 16:38 tenplus1 if a server owner takes the time and effort to make their game a specific way for players, only to be changed or made easier by use of csm then we NEED a way to disable it server-side 16:38 red-NaN no, a lot of stuff client-sided csm loading allows is not something that server owners should have to care about 16:38 red-NaN what we need is a way to make sure CSM doesn't affect the server 16:39 paramat c55 has it right: "Current CSM is bad. The design of Minetest is to give all possible control to servers." 16:39 red-NaN unless the server owner whats it to 16:39 Fuchs would maybe make sense to implement something that doesn't rely on IRC, so you can have it act your way :) 16:39 Shara Fuchs: The colour code issue I'm talking about is purely ingame. 16:40 Fuchs especially that IRC has probably a couple of things (like the message lenght, which depends on the overhead as well, which is variable) that are unlikely to be handled well 16:40 IhrFussel red-NaN, I thought minetest.strip_colors(str) disables the colors from appearing in chat or no? 16:40 Fuchs ah 16:40 Shara The IRC related issue seems to already have a fix, and would apply to any IRC network. 16:40 red-NaN IhrFussel, yeah it does 16:40 Shara (as far as I know) 16:41 IhrFussel Then just add that line to the message callback @ anyone who complains about colored messages 16:41 Fixer tenplus1 confirmed in Shara's server chats 16:41 Shara But if I am playing the game, and people are using colour codes to change their text colour so I find it very difficult to read the messages... but I have no control of this... 16:41 Shara It's a problem to me. 16:42 Shara I don't mind if a player can set how they see their own display, but to change how I see what they type... That's bad. 16:42 red-NaN just strip the colours either on the server or on your client 16:43 Shara And how do I do that in the client? 16:43 Fixer strip colours on server :} 16:43 rubenwardy server side reconcilliation, client side prediction 16:43 rubenwardy all control should be with the server 16:43 red-NaN one sec let me check if I still have my colour-blind mod 16:43 rubenwardy doesn't mean that CSM shouldn't exist 16:44 rubenwardy although I really don't like the send chat api 16:44 Shara I don't want CSM able to effect chat, as it stands. I see nothing good from it. 16:44 red-NaN Shara, see "who_plus" as an example 16:45 paramat unfortunately CSM developed and a release happened before the necessary restrictions, we may need a point release soon after this is sorted out :] 16:45 rubenwardy that should be server side 16:45 Shara red-NaN: I have no idea where to look for this. Do you have a link please? 16:46 red-NaN https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17800 16:46 red-NaN it automates sending certain chatcommands 16:47 Shara Thanks 16:47 rubenwardy that shouldn't be done by CSM, imo 16:48 tenplus1 wouldnt it be easier for admin to type /kick /ban /status and use to autocomplete a name ?? 16:49 Shara Yea, not really sure I want to add more mods to stop mods... I think I'll just ban players abusing this. 16:49 tenplus1 same 16:50 Fixer is it possible to play with opened formspec in background? 16:50 Shara I have a lot of things I want to work on for MT without needing to constantly try and patch things so I can stand to play. 16:52 red-NaN alright I suppose I should take back my statements about blocking chat sending 16:52 red-NaN as long 16:52 red-NaN as chatcommands are excluded 16:52 tenplus1 am still getting "WARNING[Main]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found" in console when running server 16:52 Fixer https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14429&start=975#p275972 16:52 tenplus1 where are these blocks, why no meta ?!?!?!?!? 16:52 red-NaN tenplus1, no-one knows 16:52 red-NaN just ignore it 16:54 tenplus1 wb nrz 16:56 red-NaN huh I thought of a hacky way for the server to send settings to CSM mods 16:56 nerzhul no hacky way 16:57 tenplus1 do tell ? 16:57 nerzhul chat message handling hack like i saw before ? 16:57 red-NaN no even worse 16:57 tenplus1 ??? 16:57 red-NaN privs 16:57 tenplus1 add a bogus priv with info attached ? 16:58 red-NaN the server could set an priv to tell a CSM mod if a feature should be enabled 17:00 DS-minetest i don't think, that would make sense 17:01 tenplus1 if csm can read player privs then yeah, it's possible to enable special features using privs 17:01 DS-minetest all players should be treated equal, admins can have more things with ssm 17:01 nerzhul it's very hacky, please don't :p 17:02 Shara Players should be treated based on what they have earned, and not as equals. 17:02 tenplus1 a natural progression to the game 17:02 DS-minetest would it be possible to sens something into chat that only those with csm get an error? 17:02 red-NaN this all feels like testing in production 17:02 Shara It really does... 17:03 nerzhul red-NaN, a little bit yes 17:04 Raven262 Nobody should be threated differently, everyone is equal in socialistic society. 17:04 red-NaN well I think you can at least partially understand why some of the concerns where ignored when people where using far fetched scenrios instead of focusing on the real issues 17:04 red-NaN like spamming 17:04 Shara Raven262: we're talking about players. 17:05 Raven262 Even players are equal. 17:05 Shara Not in terms of what privs they get. 17:05 red-NaN Raven262, not this again 17:05 Raven262 Or is minetest also covered by the shadow of capitalism? 17:05 Raven262 This, comrade red, this 17:05 red-NaN we almost burned this place to the ground last time we started this 17:05 Raven262 You are already red, aren't you? 17:05 tenplus1 lol 17:06 Shara Put yourself in a server owner's shoes for a moment. Player #1 always tries to help new players learn the game, and tries to repair griefing damage they find and so on. Player #2 is a borderline griefer who sometimes spams chat a bit, but not quite enough to get banned. 17:06 DS-minetest Raven262: you are already blue, a hot flame O_o 17:06 Raven262 Nah, red is my colour. 17:06 Raven262 Red as in freedom. 17:06 red-NaN last time it was someone agruing for human rights and now it is a ex-soviet trying to bring back commuism 17:06 Shara I'll reward player #1 with extra privs and more of my time any day, player #2... no. 17:07 red-NaN better red then dead 17:07 Raven262 Indeed, comrade. 17:07 Fixer tenplus1: bump 17:07 DS-minetest Raven262: everyone sees himself as red 17:07 Raven262 Nah, but red surely does. 17:08 Raven262 Shara, I have never seen someone reward players with extra privs except when making them an moderator/admin 17:08 tenplus1 the whole reason the 'creative' priv is important as well... to reward builders and trustworthy playersd 17:08 tenplus1 I do that all the time Raven 17:08 Shara Raven262: You didn't spend time around my servers then. 17:08 Shara Or Xanadu. 17:08 Raven262 No. 17:08 red-NaN well brb 17:08 red-NaN invading russia during the winter 17:09 Raven262 Heh, bad for you, red. 17:09 tenplus1 make sure you're wrapped up in a huge fur coat and hat 17:09 Raven262 Or in the cold embrace of winter anyway. 17:10 Fixer tenplus1: i wonder if it is possible to open formspec of your protector_redo via CSM and add other players 17:10 Raven262 That would be nice now, wouldn't it? 17:10 tenplus1 no, it checks if you have name added before opening 17:10 Raven262 damn 17:11 * Raven262 just had an interesting idea. 17:11 Raven262 But well, wouldn't try that anyway 17:11 red-NaN tenplus1, before opening? 17:11 tenplus1 yes 17:11 red-NaN or before processing input? 17:12 red-NaN Fixer, CSM can't really mess around with server formspecs 17:12 tenplus1 on_rightclick it checks if you are allowed and only then opens formspec or protected chest etc 17:12 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEBdKFGlPg 17:12 Fixer tenplus1: i mean protector formspec, not shared chest 17:12 red-NaN that inventory thing was something I didn't know about how minetest process inventories 17:12 red-NaN tenplus1, thats not good 17:13 red-NaN A modded client could pull a worldedit_gui on you 17:13 tenplus1 yes Fixer, for protector AND chest formspec 17:13 Fixer tenplus1: have you found out how they grief in protected places? 17:13 red-NaN https://raw.githubusercontent.com/red-001/diagrams/master/formspec%20spoofing.jpg 17:14 tenplus1 sadly no... 17:14 tenplus1 am sure it has something to do with hacked client granting privs 17:16 nerzhul then sounds somes are doing bots with chat, it's what i suspected before release and didn't wanted to add this API feature, hopefully there is rate limit client side and server side, but it's not sufficient 17:16 nerzhul red-NaN, you can fake formspec like you can fake POST requests on any HTML form 17:16 red-NaN nerzhul, I know 17:17 red-NaN I was trying to test my infographic making skills 17:17 red-NaN it didn't go well 17:17 nerzhul libre office draw ? 17:17 rubenwardy tenplus1, you do check on field submission though? 17:17 red-NaN rubenwardy, looking at his code he seems to be 17:17 tenplus1 field submission for what / 17:18 rubenwardy ...formspecs 17:18 tenplus1 it's done on rightclick 17:18 DS-minetest what if you could only use minetest.send_chat_message as often as you opened chat before? 17:18 tenplus1 if they cant get into it field submission isnt needed 17:19 red-NaN ... 17:19 rubenwardy false, tenplus1, you also need to check on fields received as you can't trust clients 17:19 red-NaN I guess I failed at infographic making then 17:19 tenplus1 if I do that then it'll become pretty slow 17:19 red-NaN rubenwardy, https://github.com/tenplus1/protector/blob/1130f447a62cdcb40fe24d68b7717eaa55b1f9bb/init.lua#L525 17:19 tenplus1 having to check if player has access to formspec etc 17:19 red-NaN it seems to check if the player can dig the node 17:19 rubenwardy that's good then, you do check 17:21 tenplus1 ooh, xanadu has been up for 42 hours :) 17:21 tenplus1 hi cx384 17:22 red-NaN nerzhul, will you be able to finnish your CSM flavours pr before next release? 17:22 cx384 hi tenplus1 =) 17:22 red-NaN no need to hurry with it now since people will just use 0.4.16 17:22 red-NaN but this needs to make it's way into next release 17:22 nerzhul red-NaN, next release is in some months then i think it's not a problem :p 17:23 red-NaN hopefully with some new features like severs being able to send mods to client so that people update 17:23 nerzhul yes i agree, but i don't continue it, waiting for different discussion and new API 17:25 red-NaN thinking of re-working the way chatcommands are sent 17:25 red-NaN if we add client <-> server modding communication we could send chat commands over that instead of chat 17:26 Shara I really hope this problem won't be left until next release... 17:27 nerzhul red-NaN, we can but it's not the real purpose and needs some server handling 17:28 red-NaN Shara, there is no real way to handle it until release 17:28 red-NaN we need a new version and a reason for people to update 17:29 red-NaN so at least 2 months if we do a point release 17:29 Shara Then this is extremely poor on the part of the dev team. 17:36 paramat "no need to hurry"? this has been let loose on the release, needs a fix and a point release 17:38 Amaz Servers do need to be able to disable (at least most of) CSM asap. 17:38 tenplus1 yup 17:38 Amaz And allowing servers to send their own client side mods would also be *very* nice 17:38 rubenwardy sending chat should not be a feature 17:38 Shara We shouldn't need to wait two months to have some control over this mess though, either way. 17:39 Amaz ^ 17:39 rubenwardy client side modding shouldn't be for client mods 17:39 rubenwardy client side modding should be for client side prediction for server side mods 17:40 paramat how about all CSM work goes into this issue, then we release as soon as it is done? would it need to be a separate branch (0.4.17) to avoid 0.5.0 work? 17:42 paramat a branch for point release fixes for 0.4.16 was actually discussed for other reasons 17:44 cheapie CSM sounds like the sort of thing I'd expect a major release for. It's also the kind of thing that I'd expect to actually be finished before a release, instead of the half-baked version in 0.4.16 :/ 17:46 tenplus1 hi cheapie 17:46 cheapie Hi. 17:47 cheapie [12:38:10] Servers do need to be able to disable (at least most of) CSM asap. <--- If you do that, most likely lots of people (me included) are promptly going to patch around that anti-feature in our clients. 17:49 Shara This is the problem we now have. 17:49 tenplus1 personally I feel that CSM mods should be loaded FROM the server to assist in it's operation on the client engine, leaving the server with control over what's run 17:50 Amaz ^ 17:50 Shara If clients can do what they like, clients will now do what they like. 17:50 Shara It's always been an issue, but there's now been an official release that lowers the barrier. 17:50 tenplus1 exactly 17:51 Shara And I really, really do not want a client able to change what my server then supplies to other players, even if it is only a chat colour. 17:58 nerzhul Amaz, i think you dream, sending mods from server just needs many dev and tests and BEST security 17:58 nerzhul paramat, backport stable -0.4 to generate 0.4.x 17:59 paramat ok 17:59 Jordach >tfw fidget spinners works for someone with autism 17:59 Jordach reeeee 18:01 paramat cheapie that's what bigfoot547 stated, depending on what you do that could make you an unwelcome hacker 18:09 red-NaN the reason we will have to wait is that we need to give users a reason to upate 18:09 red-NaN update* 18:09 * DS-minetest finally made a client side chatbell mod :P 18:09 tenplus1 chat bell ? 18:09 red-NaN if the main feature for users is "We removed a feature because server owners didn't like it" then they don't have a reason to update 18:10 DS-minetest a bell that is to hear if your name is written 18:10 tenplus1 ah 18:11 red-NaN as nice as it would be to remove chat sending and node access if the server doesn't want it, it's not possible unless users co-operate 18:11 paramat weird, i thought server-provided clientmods was the original idea and primary use, it's the most useful aspect 18:11 red-NaN and if they were willing to co-operate in the first place they would disable the mods that server owners didn't like 18:11 paramat fixing this is enough reason to update :] 18:12 Fixer i still think people overreacting about CSM 18:12 Fixer it is interesting how it ends up in security sense 18:12 red-NaN paramat, for server owners not for players 18:12 red-NaN remeber theses are the players that are using these mods even through the server owner doesn't like them 18:13 tenplus1 if players want to run mods for singleplayer use then that's fine, but for server use it's up to the server itself to dictate mods in use 18:13 paramat there will be other improvements by the time CSM is sorted, not everyone works on CSM 18:14 red-NaN paramat, thats why I was giving a time frame of two months 18:14 paramat " it's not possible unless users co-operate 18:14 paramat " ? 18:14 red-NaN thats a realistic time frame for adding new features and fixing this 18:14 red-NaN paramat, they can just use an old client 18:14 Fixer "White Supremacy Symbol" 18:15 Fixer LOL 18:15 Fixer not this again 18:15 Jordach Fixer, l m a o 18:15 paramat stop trying to say it's pointless, i can see from your arguments you are biased against restrictions 18:15 red-NaN unless you want to lose ~60% of moible users you will need to allow old clients 18:15 Fixer those spinners are dumb 18:15 paramat this was clear in the thread too 18:15 Fixer compared to yoyo 18:15 red-NaN paramat, well then suggest a way to implement it 18:17 Krock hi tenplus1 18:17 Krock HA 18:17 red-NaN hi tenplus1 18:17 paramat "paramat, they can just use an old client" then we just have to do whatever is necessary to avoid loopholes, you're just resisting what is needed 18:17 red-NaN you can't avoid that loop hole 18:18 red-NaN unless like a said you ban old clients 18:18 red-NaN and completely break backwards compatibilliy 18:19 red-NaN wait aren't we planning to remove old protocol support for 0.5.0? 18:19 paramat then why was CSM coded this way in the first place? seems a disaster 18:19 tenplus1 +1... also, hi Krock 18:20 paramat anyway i don't trust your statements much because you are obviously biased against restrictions 18:20 Fixer REMOVE KECSM 18:20 Krock REMOVE KEBAB 18:21 Fixer still, i think situation is mostly okay for now 18:21 Fixer just discuss calmly 18:21 paramat and what is nerz coding and how come he can code effective restrictions? 18:22 red-NaN on new clients 18:22 Fixer what is worrying me is this discussed by only 3 devs... 18:22 red-NaN thats why we need co-operation from users 18:23 paramat how about completely removing the ability to have client-provided clientmods and have server-provided only? (as was the original plan and by far the most useful usage) would that allow effective restrictions? 18:24 * red-NaN sigh 18:24 red-NaN I do think that the way nerzhul is planning to do this is mostly ok 18:24 Jordach wooo 18:25 paramat ok so restriction by flavour is no solution either 18:25 Jordach woot 18:25 Jordach i can make extruded models in blender for 234 tris 18:25 red-NaN at the very least it's harder to by-pass then the idea of removing mod loading 18:27 paramat please could someone answer my long question above, nerzhul? seems that has to be considered 18:27 red-NaN paramat, you are confusing me disagreeing with how you want to implement this with not wanting to limit CSM at all 18:27 nerzhul paramat, it's not possible to do it in a short time because i don't want to see rogue servers which send shit to our clients client and hack their system (it's schema but realist) 18:28 paramat ok 18:28 red-NaN The only way that the "disable all client-sided mod loading" idea would work would be if the server sent builtin to the client 18:28 nerzhul CSM disable is a reality for most users , only some rogue users enabled it to do shit, releasing will not prevent using 0.4.16 to do same things 18:28 red-NaN but that would be a nightmare to work with 18:29 paramat CSM should be completely disabled until finished, but it has been left usable in 0.4.16 18:29 nerzhul red-NaN, i disagree with sending builtin because it's not mod owners respobility to handle core lua 18:29 red-NaN and could be a security disaster 18:29 nerzhul yes 18:29 red-NaN nerzhul, I was just playing the devils advocate for a monment there 18:29 tenplus1 disable for now, bump version to 0.4.17 and let ppl update 18:29 nerzhul it's disable by default 18:30 nerzhul we can hardcode CSM disable but this will not prevent users to enable it by using 0.4.16 or just hacked client which remove this hard limit 18:30 red-NaN ^ 18:30 red-NaN hacked clients are a smaller issue 18:31 paramat ok, but: "The barriers to cheating we've had until CSM are fine. As long as cheating requires C++ changes, we're pretty much where we've always been" 18:31 red-NaN sure 18:31 paramat ^ c55 18:31 nerzhul also hardcoding disabling it will reduce the valid testers :( 18:31 nerzhul i think flavour to disable CSM risky features is the best consensus between anoying users using Lua and CSM useful features 18:32 red-NaN oh btw I will soon make a PR to remove colour from messages the server receives 18:32 paramat so why was this misuse by clients not considered or forseen? CSM was obviously wanted so someone must have an idea of how to implement it correctly 18:32 red-NaN well chat sending was a last minute thing 18:33 nerzhul paramat, CSM implement is good, API over CSM are not, i was against sending chat messages at the begining but i accept it because many good users convince me 18:33 red-NaN it got in the day before the feature frezze 18:33 red-NaN it was rejected twice before that 18:33 nerzhul and i ask the PR owner on chat message to add the chat sending limit 18:33 nerzhul i think the queue should be dropped 18:33 nerzhul too many messages => drop 18:33 paramat there was plenty of controversy and debate in the ore detect mod thread long before release, why ignored? 18:33 red-NaN nerzhul, maybe we heavily limit chat sending 18:33 nerzhul don't queue and dispatch them over time 18:34 red-NaN most legitimate use-case don't need to send a lot of messages 18:34 red-NaN I mean coloured chat is sort of legitimate 18:35 red-NaN but it's not that useful 18:35 nerzhul paramat, why don't help us to solve this issue in feature freeze if you know it ? me and red-NaN worked on the bugs to fix in the list, CSM was for us a disabled feature and there was many blockers to fix, if more coredevs or C++ PR owners have helped us to solve all those things or someone declared oredetection block we could have delayed released or fix it before that 18:35 nerzhul i think color chat should only be a customization per player 18:35 nerzhul or server message responsiblity 18:36 nerzhul you customize messages color, sender color etc 18:36 nerzhul (i.e. my WIP chat protocol rewrite) 18:36 red-NaN well I first implemented coloured chat for CSM as a way to prove it could be done in lua 18:37 tenplus1 hi Megaf 18:37 paramat because i don't remotely understand how it is coded. that's no excuse for not considering the objections raised 18:37 paramat as has been said in the thread there was plenty of objection long before release 18:37 nerzhul the best short think we can do i think is to finish the flavour PR, which will trigger a protocol bump and server owner should just set minimum version to 0.4.17 if they want to fix the problem 18:38 Megaf o// 18:38 Shara And lose a lot of players? 18:38 Shara Hi Roary Tiger 18:38 nerzhul there was, but also did you look at the GH activity ? there were many coredevs busy on other things than minetest, it's their right, but it doesn't help us to fix all the backlog 18:38 nerzhul Shara, i don't added that mention, but yes it's the protocol behind this 18:38 Megaf hey Shara 18:39 nerzhul if you don't block older MT (then 0.4.16) everybody can use CSM with that version to do unwanted things 18:39 paramat ok, nuff said, i appreciate the efforts towards fixing this 18:40 nerzhul note: i don't want to add core hack to define if flavour == CSM_FLAVOUR_BL_ALL => protocol 0.4.16 is forbidden to connect 18:41 Shara If I do that, I'll lose probably most of my players over night anyway 18:42 Jordach i've found a bug 18:42 tenplus1 ? 18:42 Jordach nothing major 18:42 red-NaN well are there any other functions in CSM that need to be blocked? 18:42 Shara Simply can't expect players to be running the most recent client. 18:42 Jordach it's meshoptions plants 18:42 Shara I don't understand CSM well enough yet to know what else it can do. 18:42 nerzhul red-NaN, i think only chat & node limits 18:42 Jordach tenplus1, http://i.imgur.com/00W8XFQ.png 18:43 tenplus1 they float slightly 18:43 Jordach meshoptions plants seem to fly at the momenty 18:43 Jordach -y 18:43 red-NaN lol I kinda wish I didn't release my mod now 18:43 Shara What we need is the server to control this so the client doesn't matter. 18:43 Megaf can anyone give a light on this SATA/UDMA issue? I added a SSD to where an optical drive once was, its a macbook pro mid 2010 13 inch. http://paste.debian.net/plain/970670 18:43 red-NaN having coloured chat was a lot cooler when your where the only person that had it 18:44 nerzhul CSM is able to create local formspec for example you can make client only craft guide which is nice for client, you can handle minimap, settings, you can read all local player attributes, the current time, sending messages over chat (!), reading the map nodes your loaded (!) 18:44 Shara red-NaN: Yea, and I wouldn't mind if it worked that way. 18:44 Shara nerzhul: What is I don't want players to use the minimap unless they have, for example, a map item? 18:44 nerzhul red-NaN, yeah, users are more stupid and creative than us with a single api call :p 18:45 nerzhul Shara, if you disabled for your clients it you cannot enable with CSM if it's your question 18:45 Shara What if part of the game on my server is learning your own recipes, and I don't want to give everyone a craft guide? 18:45 red-NaN the way lisac implemented his coloured chat system was more intersting 18:45 red-NaN Shara, well I think a craftguide would require a server-side mod to support it 18:46 red-NaN I could be wrong but iirc the client doesn't know about crafts 18:46 nerzhul red-NaN, i think you can have client side craftguide atm no ? we can read recipes 18:46 Shara That is really bad 18:46 Shara Learning recipes can easily be a part of the gameplay 18:47 Shara I don't want players just able to go and read them all. 18:47 red-NaN I think we only have node definitions 18:47 nerzhul yeah but if we block all formspec we can block the excellent who_plus CSM mod 18:47 nerzhul red-NaN, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.md#definitions 18:48 nerzhul you are right we don't have recipes yet 18:48 Shara nerzhul: no offence meant, but that mods doesn't do anything I need 18:48 nerzhul if we add it, add a flavour for it then 18:48 Shara I'm happy to block it 18:48 red-NaN neat colour code striping works 18:49 nerzhul Shara, CSM is intended to enhance client experience also, not only what you want, we can offer some limits but removing all means just trash all efforts we want to make to reduce server load 18:49 paramat "i think only chat & node limits", many more will arise for sure :] 18:49 Shara nerzhul: if the compromise is server owner's losing control, then yes, I'd like it trashed. I know you have worked hard, but it's not good. 18:50 Shara It's my server. I pay to run it. I should be in control there. 18:50 nerzhul paramat, in the future ? yes, but atm it's the only problems i see 18:50 paramat Jordach that's with randomised tile height i guess? 18:50 Jordach paramat, yeeee 18:50 Shara If the game won't allow me to be in control, it may well be time for me to go and find another game, yes? 18:50 red-NaN oh lets stop overreacting 18:51 nerzhul Shara, i can take examples with texture, you can have spent many moeny to make your texture pack on server and player set a custom texture pack, it's similar problem no ? 18:51 red-NaN ^ 18:51 Shara It's nto similar at all. 18:51 Shara not* 18:51 Jordach paramat, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5947 18:51 Shara Someone setting a texture pack changes only their own experience. 18:52 nerzhul CSM will not be removed, now stop talking and we shoud finds how to properly limit the API, and server owners should update and encourage fucking anoying players to kick by banishing them if needed 18:52 red-NaN and thats what CSM mods should be limited to if the server owner doesn't want them to be able to do more 18:52 Shara nerzhul: Yes, properly limit it please. 18:52 red-NaN thats basicly what they do now if we removed chat 18:53 * red-NaN sets out to find a colour thats just off enough from black to be annoying to the eye but not enough for anyone to be sure 18:54 DS-minetest (by abusing chat a client side craft guide would already be possible. but it would need support of server. => it made no sense) 18:54 red-NaN may I ask why is colour not removed for old clients? 18:54 nerzhul DS-minetest, you made crazy mods over CSM :p 18:55 red-NaN we seem to be using a werid setting 18:55 nerzhul because we have retrocompat... but it was forgotten here ? :p 18:55 red-NaN instead of just removing colour-codes for old clients 18:56 red-NaN I might make a PR at some point to fix that and allow us to remove "disable_escape_sequences" 18:57 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/0JmgS6W.png 19:00 Jordach ...probably shouldn't post porn on IRC Kappa 19:00 red-NaN Shara, #5948 19:02 DS-minetest Jordach: wth your screen is wide! 19:03 Jordach u l t r a w i d e 19:03 octacian Jordach: Is that a custom model for the grass or whatever that is? heh 19:03 Jordach https://jordach.net/Images/emoji/thinking.png 19:04 octacian lol 19:04 Jordach apparently discord's emojis are SVG 19:05 Jordach https://discordapp.com/assets/53ef346458017da2062aca5c7955946b.svg 19:06 octacian Really? heh, I've never bothered attempting to open the emojis themselves xD 19:10 DS-minetest https://assets-cdn.github.com/images/icons/emoji/unicode/1f914.png 19:16 lisac_ Discord has no plugin support 19:16 red-NaN oh hi lisac_ 19:17 red-NaN turns out the masses where not ready for coloured chat 19:17 lisac_ Hi red-NaN 19:17 lisac red-NaN, How is that? 19:17 lisac Hi ShadowBot. 19:17 red-NaN they did not over through the ruling class 19:17 red-NaN they joined it 19:18 * lisac > Amon Amarth - The Pursuit Of Vikings - [ Fate Of Norns #4 ] - [ 03:07 / 04:30 ] 19:18 red-NaN or tl;dr people make poor design choices 19:18 red-NaN also known as black text on anything thats not a uniform bright page 19:19 red-NaN oh and someone made a mod to simulate -hub/11 which really annoyed server owners 19:19 * red-NaN wonders does 11 summon tenplus1 19:20 lisac I know that hill should summon foot 19:20 tenplus1 :P 19:20 lisac Hi tenplus1. 19:20 tenplus1 hi hi 19:21 DS-minetest that was me who made that. but 11 doesn't want to use it because he would loose his job 19:21 lisac red-NaN, Do you think it is possible to get what hue there is most in an RGB color? 19:22 red-NaN robot revolution people 19:22 lisac and use that to determine IRC color? 19:22 lisac ex. 255 50 50 gives red 19:22 red-NaN huh 19:22 lisac same as 255 0 200 19:22 lisac etc, etc. 19:22 lisac and make colors work in IRC, too 19:22 red-NaN oh 19:22 red-NaN well I guess so 19:23 red-NaN but IRC colours are very limited 19:23 red-NaN I don't think it will work well 19:23 lisac :( 19:23 red-NaN plus they are implemention defined 19:23 red-NaN diffrent clients can use diffrent colours 19:23 lisac so, I might see red, but someone else might see pink? 19:23 DS-minetest clolors 19:24 red-NaN well I might see really bright and clear red 19:24 lisac 1 2 3 4 5 19:24 red-NaN but somone might see muted dark red 19:24 red-NaN lisac, colors are disabled here 19:24 lisac oh :( 19:27 red-NaN huh I though of another optimaztion for my .rainbow command 19:27 red-NaN I don't need to add colour codes for spaces, etc 19:30 octacian Wait, no colours here? Really? 19:30 octacian So, no red? 19:31 octacian Doesn't look disabled to me... 19:31 red-NaN oh don't you dare 19:31 octacian Why not? :P 19:31 red-NaN I don't want to become NaC-NaN 19:32 * octacian is so tempted to load his rainbow extension... 19:32 red-NaN well it wouldn't work 19:32 octacian You sure? 19:32 red-NaN yeah 19:32 octacian Didn't the red work? 19:32 red-NaN I'm sure 19:32 octacian heh, Well, either way, no time xD 19:33 DS-minetest these colors work 19:33 red-NaN Unless this is orange 19:33 octacian Nope, not orange 19:39 Jordach Two number 9's; a number 9 large; a number 6, extra dip; a number 7; two number 45's, one with cheese; and a large soda. 19:40 * Shara likes the sound of NaC-NaN. 19:49 octacian red-NaN: BTW, a note about your GUIPathSelect PR. Rather than returning data via one of two different field names, could all the data be returned as a table to one field name? 19:52 * DS-minetest just recognizes now, how easy it is to make a calculator clientmod. why should any function be forbidden?! 19:52 red-NaN you mean the _accepted and _canceled? 19:53 octacian Yeah. It can be pretty annoying to handle 19:53 red-NaN well thats the way the old code worked and I just kepted it 19:53 red-NaN since I didn't want to re-write the input handler 19:54 octacian Well, if you are able to at some point I think it'd be a major improvement 19:56 red-NaN well the only table I could return from what I can see would be a json table 19:57 octacian No way to just return a normal lua table? huh 20:00 red-NaN no 20:00 red-NaN this is too far removed from lua 20:01 octacian I see 20:06 red-NaN DS-minetest, second view 20:07 red-NaN oh neat can I crash the client with this? 20:07 tenplus1 ??? 20:07 DS-minetest heh, you found it 20:08 DS-minetest perhaps you can 20:09 red-NaN oh lol 1/0 is inf 20:10 red-NaN hey I can inject code 20:10 red-NaN neato 20:10 red-NaN so neat but please never make a server-sided port of this 20:11 DS-minetest sure XD 20:11 red-NaN it will be kinda useful for dev 20:11 red-NaN hey maybe rename the command to .lua 20:11 red-NaN and pretend the code injection is a feature 20:12 DS-minetest hm, i will add a .lua command, that doesn't add return in front 20:12 red-NaN it's pretty neat because it doesn't crash on error 20:12 red-NaN nooo 20:13 red-NaN keep that 20:13 red-NaN this makes it print the erros 20:13 red-NaN errors* 20:14 red-NaN or no?? 20:14 DS-minetest yes, but you can't do all 20:14 DS-minetest hmm 20:14 DS-minetest no, it still shows the errors 20:14 red-NaN huh it prints some errors but not others 20:14 red-NaN nvm 20:15 DS-minetest added 20:15 red-NaN my error jus happened to be prefectly legal lua code 20:16 red-NaN maybe also run dump() on the output 20:17 red-NaN or not 20:17 red-NaN the user can do that 20:18 DS-minetest hm, the errors also seem to be in terminal printed 20:18 Jordach i found why my internet is worse than Fixer's 20:18 Jordach now at sub 4mbit 20:19 Jordach ping spikes to over 2sec 20:20 Jordach ISP is currently installing new cabinets and shit 20:20 Jordach so half of the support networks are disabled while new fiber is laid and ready to roll 20:21 tenplus1 nite all 20:21 * DS-minetest sadly didn't yet manage to finish the mod that shall get the pos of a thing with the help of 2 sights 20:48 red-NaN someone got a cloak 20:48 red-NaN and setup sasl? 20:49 bigfoot547 I have a cloack and sasl 20:49 bigfoot547 cloak* 20:50 bigfoot547 why? 20:51 red-NaN I just noticed thats all 20:51 bigfoot547 noticed what? 20:51 red-NaN that you have a cloak duh 20:51 Calinou I have both 20:52 Calinou The unaffiliated cloak! The scalpel of accuracy! The epitome of trolling! 20:52 bigfoot547 How can it be used for trolling? 20:53 Calinou it makes for cheap ban evasion 20:54 bigfoot547 Sounds like fun! 21:02 Fixer hmmmmm 21:02 Fixer wait a sec 21:02 Fixer so chat6 csm mod I'm using causing problems for other people? 21:02 red-NaN no 21:03 red-NaN DS-minetest's hi and my colour chat mod are annoying peple 21:03 Fixer red-NaN: how? 21:04 Fixer is not it just client-side coloring? o_0 21:04 red-NaN no 21:04 red-NaN my mod changes the colour of chat the player sends using the chat message send API 21:04 Fixer now i'm confused 21:04 Fixer red-NaN: i'm using cheapies one 21:04 red-NaN his mod does something diffrent 21:05 red-NaN it modifys the way incoming chat is displayed 21:07 Fixer [Clientmod] say automatically hi to everybody [hi] (New posts) 21:07 Fixer LOL 21:07 Fixer now i understand this drama 21:07 red-NaN ^ 21:07 DS-minetest heh, it's not that annoying on servers where not that many players join 21:08 red-NaN I think I have a problem 21:08 red-NaN "Your repositories 36" 21:08 red-NaN this is getting out of hand 21:08 Fixer DS-minetest: imagine server like Hometown with 40 people, say 5 of them have Hi, and every minute 10 people joins and exits, so you end up with 50 hi 21:09 DS-minetest lol, true, if everyone has hi XD 21:09 nerzhul being polite is now a problem :p 21:09 red-NaN I can't decide if thats more like a pyraimid scheme or a smart DDoS attack 21:09 DS-minetest but it can already be annoying with one player having hi, eh. on just test 2 21:09 red-NaN like one of those reflection attacks 21:09 DS-minetest eg* 21:10 red-NaN DS-minetest, at least it doesn't anwser to "Hi"'s 21:10 DS-minetest ha 21:10 red-NaN and now I want to code that 21:10 DS-minetest no, it says once hi on connection to everyone 21:10 red-NaN just to see what would happen 21:11 red-NaN ** queue evil background sounds and music ** 21:16 red-NaN ok 21:17 red-NaN :( the github license choicer doesn't support CC0 21:18 Calinou red-NaN: it can *detect* CC0 though 21:19 Calinou I'm pretty sure 21:19 Calinou https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode 21:19 Calinou paste the text starting from "Statement of Purpose" in a LICENSE.txt file 21:19 Calinou or, https://github.com/idleberg/Creative-Commons-Markdown 21:19 Calinou (it's in 4.0 folder) 21:20 red-NaN lol .markdown? 21:21 red-NaN but is the license under CC0? 21:21 bigfoot547 !title 21:21 ShadowBot GitHub - idleberg/Creative-Commons-Markdown: Markdown-formatted Creative Commons licenses 21:24 Calinou just rename .markdown to .md if you want 21:24 Calinou heck, some people use .mdown 21:24 Calinou but .md won the battle 21:24 Calinou (by far) 21:24 red-NaN oh this is ironic 21:25 red-NaN the license file is a lot larger then my code 21:27 Calinou CC0 isn't small 21:27 Calinou but it's legally valid (probably) 21:27 Calinou you may want to prefer the MIT license for code 21:27 bigfoot547 Well, anything is better than wtfpl 21:27 Calinou (but keep on using CC0 for assets) 21:27 Calinou this ^ 21:27 red-NaN why so? 21:27 Calinou MIT is shorter, and OSI-approved, unlike CC0 21:27 Calinou CC0 is FSF-approved but not OSI-approved 21:28 red-NaN please tell me why that should be important to me 21:28 red-NaN was it not approved on legal grounds? 21:28 bigfoot547 I just use the LGPL v2.1+. 21:28 red-NaN or ideological grounds 21:28 Calinou red-NaN: legal grounds 21:28 Calinou if you read CC0, you'll see that it explicitly denies any form of patent grant 21:28 Calinou no other open source license does this 21:29 Calinou GPLv3 and Apache 2 *grant* patent licenses 21:29 Calinou the other ones don't, but it could be seen as implicit 21:29 Calinou CC0 tells licenses, "you'll never have patent licenses, no matter what" 21:29 red-NaN well I don't think I'm going to get a patent for striping some colour codes 21:29 Calinou and this is why Creative Commons pulled the CC0 from being OSI-approved 21:29 Calinou (they submitted it a while ago) 21:29 Calinou red-NaN: software patents might not be an issue for you in this case, but they can be in larger projects 21:29 Calinou (probably a good reason to not use CC0 on large software) 21:29 Calinou (or particularly innovative software) 21:30 red-NaN well I suppose it's useful for people that don't want a patent 21:31 red-NaN well the license auto-detection didn't work with the markdown file 21:31 red-NaN https://github.com/red-001/colour_blind 21:32 bigfoot547 !title 21:32 ShadowBot GitHub - red-001/colour_blind: A minetest CSM mod for removing all colour from incoming messages. 21:32 red-NaN and yes I'm going to spell it "colour" everywhere but in the code 21:43 DS-minetest colour_carrier also uses "colour" in code 21:45 DS-minetest if register_on_receiving_chat_messages returns true, the other functions aren't executed, right? 21:46 red-NaN yeah 21:46 red-NaN oh come one 21:47 red-NaN on* 21:47 red-NaN don't ninja me 21:47 Fixer JUST ONE MORE YEAR AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY 21:47 Fixer Lua CSM start up idea 21:48 Fixer worst idea ever ofc 21:48 Fixer implement chat bot (neural networks one with big database) and connect to server... 21:49 Fixer other player can also join with this bot 21:49 Fixer and you start bot vs bot talks 21:49 Fixer ingame 21:50 Fixer or with clean database 21:50 Fixer bots record players messages 21:50 Fixer and start talking with this MOM/MUM/DAD insanity 21:51 Fixer this is perfect for 2b2t like gameplay 21:54 red-NaN you are a mad man 21:55 red-NaN so when are we starting? 21:55 Fixer red-NaN: bot with bot talks actually happened on jabber server long ago 21:58 red-NaN well I once got two irc bots into a loop 21:58 Fixer both bots had big talk databases and it was pretty fun to read 21:58 red-NaN a lot of spam was generated that day 21:59 Fixer that days 21:59 Fixer separate room was made just for those two bots 22:08 Fixer ＣＹＢＥＲＷＨＯＯＰＥＥ 22:10 sfan5 ＣＹＢＥＲ ＢＲＩＴＩＳＨ ＥＬＥＣＴＩＯＮＳ 22:11 srifqi Bot which plays Minetest? 22:12 srifqi No? 22:19 Fixer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBymQBvWsAAFXSn.jpg:large 22:19 Fixer *_* 23:03 octacian Well, I'm going to be away for the weekend. Cya'll later! 23:03 bigfoot547 Bye 23:14 Fixer our old friend Sadie is back 23:14 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/EBFrtda.png 23:15 red-inf On hometown? 23:16 Fixer yep 23:16 Fixer PART FISH @ PART GIRL @ I DON"T FIT YOUR WORLD 23:17 Fixer cccombo https://i.imgur.com/q9RBew8.png 23:17 Fixer 70% of players have those names 23:17 bigfoot547 How do you mean? 23:18 bigfoot548 Fixer, ? 23:18 Fixer also this https://i.imgur.com/h3H1Rbm.png 23:18 Fixer bigfoot548: EnglishNameNNN 23:18 bigfoot548 oh 23:18 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/UgxKMIo.png that was fast 23:19 bigfoot548 I remeber taking a look at one of the apps that did this 23:19 bigfoot548 but I lost the research and I don't remeber it's name 23:20 Fixer cupcakes everywhere 23:31 Jordach fucking priceless 23:31 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/HJtQcrC.jpg 23:31 red-inf xD 23:32 Jordach supporting communism makes you a fucking retard 23:32 Jordach and by extension makes you sort of guilty for supporting the deaths of millions