| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:08 |
HuguesRoss |
sfan5: Regarding #12011. Despite my title I'd trying not to involve myself much in design / management discussions for the engine. With that said, yeah it may be better to nuke. I don't think the argument about new games holds much water, because it only really applies to multiplayer games that were developed since this PR *and* haven't launched |
| 00:08 |
HuguesRoss |
yet (as far as I understand this code is client-side, the server couldn't have blocked older clients from seeing coordinates) |
| 00:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12011 -- Grant `basic_debug` privilege by default |
| 00:08 |
HuguesRoss |
...in which case, is there harm? |
| 00:08 |
sfan5 |
harm in nuking it? don't think so |
| 00:09 |
HuguesRoss |
then I'd say we may as well, and re-implement differently for the next release |
| 00:10 |
Wuzzy |
is there a point that there is a "Page X of Y" in the MTG book read interface? |
| 00:10 |
sfan5 |
so you know the page number? |
| 00:10 |
Wuzzy |
To me, it's always 1 page no matter how long the text |
| 00:10 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 00:10 |
sfan5 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 00:10 |
Wuzzy |
and the single page shows the whole text ? |
| 00:10 |
Wuzzy |
it works its just weird |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> probably related to the fact you cant limit a text input field? |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> idk |
| 00:11 |
Wuzzy |
it seems pointless to show page number if its always 1 page ? |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it is mtg after all, is it supposed to make sense? |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anyways, seems a simple fix to remove the line from the formspec? |
| 00:13 |
Wuzzy |
oh wait |
| 00:13 |
Wuzzy |
it seems its based on linebreaks |
| 00:13 |
Wuzzy |
when I enter a text with linebreaks, it does pagebreaks as well |
| 00:13 |
Wuzzy |
my test text had no linebreaks ... ? |
| 00:13 |
Wuzzy |
nvm then |
| 00:24 |
Wuzzy |
strange. is it normal that going to bed in singleplayer no longer skips night? |
| 00:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> have you enabled bed night skip in your settings? |
| 00:24 |
Wuzzy |
nvm. wrong setting |
| 00:25 |
sfan5 |
bed night skip is the default |
| 00:25 |
sfan5 |
and works here |
| 00:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erlehmann: I'm starting to doubt that "awaiting" using coroutines is possible in this case |
| 00:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> You basically have to block the main thread until MT calls the callback on the main thread... which makes it impossible for MT to call the callback in the first place... |
| 00:28 |
Wuzzy |
yes sorry it was my fault |
| 00:30 |
sfan5 |
@luatic coroutines do not actually block |
| 00:30 |
sfan5 |
consider this code which works https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/games/devtest/mods/unittests/init.lua#L133-L134 |
| 00:32 |
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| 00:33 |
sfan5 |
but you are correct that you cannot use this to influence the behaviour of "external" functions |
| 00:33 |
sfan5 |
so patching the thing we've been discussing in that fashion is not possible |
| 00:46 |
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| 01:00 |
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| 01:26 |
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| 01:37 |
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| 01:50 |
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| 01:57 |
HuguesRoss |
Anyone happen to know the setting or engine modif needed to make the final mapchunk border of the map visible? I don't happen to know that one, would help with testing #11866 |
| 01:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11866 -- Raise max mapgen limit constant to align with MapBlock by sfan5 |
| 02:01 |
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| 02:05 |
HuguesRoss |
erlehmann: Just who I wanted to see, actually. I'll repeat since I don't know if you can see past messages. Do you happen to know what the necessary config is to display the mapchunk border? You allude to it in a few places, but a quick scan of the regular settings turns up nothing so I assume it's either poorly-labelled or more complicated |
| 02:06 |
HuguesRoss |
Also, I saw some interesting behavior in your second test. There's an engine bug there, but it's not what your test claims it is. Arguably this is also a bug in the test, but it's possible you did what I'm seeing deliberately so I wouldn't necessarily call it that without knowing |
| 02:07 |
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| 02:09 |
erlehmann |
let me read the log brb |
| 02:11 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss i know no easy way to make the outermost mapblock visible in a way that it helps you with the PR you are looking at. |
| 02:11 |
HuguesRoss |
alrighty |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
i think it is possible by editing the map files, but the problem is that the errors habben on *generation* time mostly. so you already need to have a mapblock. |
| 02:12 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss what is the engine bug you claim? i hope it is not “nodes can be placed out of bounds” again. |
| 02:13 |
HuguesRoss |
No, it's an s16 overflow when reading numbers >32767 |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
wait, there still is one? |
| 02:13 |
HuguesRoss |
As a result, your find nodes in area call is checking like, 2.8 trillion nodes? |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
i thought that was fixed |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
are you *sure* you are on the newest version |
| 02:13 |
HuguesRoss |
Not on my end |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
oof |
| 02:13 |
HuguesRoss |
I can double-check, but I'm pretty sure there is one |
| 02:13 |
erlehmann |
wait, did you do an incremental build maybe? |
| 02:14 |
HuguesRoss |
Maybe the branch is missing a commit? |
| 02:14 |
erlehmann |
(incremental builds with cmake in general and minetest in particular are broken and may yield the wrong binary) |
| 02:14 |
erlehmann |
hmmmm |
| 02:14 |
HuguesRoss |
I'll try rebasing on master and rebuilding |
| 02:15 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss the issue is that this only came up because of the fix for the call. maybe the fix does not work? |
| 02:15 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss, which commit are you on? |
| 02:15 |
HuguesRoss |
I'm on wherever in the history 11866 is at, but not for long |
| 02:17 |
HuguesRoss |
Anyway, on my end I'm not seeing anything that would prevent an overflow in the code even after rebasing on master. Check src/util/numeric.h:288 |
| 02:19 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss so does my test trigger an overflow there? |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
(you can verify by compiling with ubsan) |
| 02:20 |
HuguesRoss |
yes, because one of your coords is 32770 |
| 02:20 |
erlehmann |
does that happen inside *mineclonia* though? |
| 02:21 |
HuguesRoss |
Haven't checked, I took your test directly |
| 02:21 |
HuguesRoss |
as linked |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
oh, okay so |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
in mineclonia there is actually mcl_engine_workarounds |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
which contains a lua shim for minetest.find_nodes_in_area |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
the test case tests if *that* thing is correct |
| 02:21 |
HuguesRoss |
I see |
| 02:21 |
erlehmann |
i fixed it in mineclonia before the engine fixed it (or not fixed it?) |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
regardless, does this influence your decision on the PR? |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
not shim, wrapper |
| 02:22 |
HuguesRoss |
no, absolutely not. It was meant as an aside |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
it calles the real minetest.find_nodes_in_area with sanitized arguments |
| 02:22 |
erlehmann |
this is arguably very hacky, but we had a guy crash the server |
| 02:23 |
HuguesRoss |
The first test still fails on the before and passes on the after, which I believe is what we were looking to check here |
| 02:23 |
erlehmann |
the one that checks if the engine can “still count” i guess? |
| 02:24 |
HuguesRoss |
Yes |
| 02:24 |
HuguesRoss |
Also, after testing I can now confirm that your version of find_nodes_in_area works so you're all good |
| 02:24 |
erlehmann |
nice |
| 02:25 |
HuguesRoss |
The engine could use some more checks when getting inputs from mods though though |
| 02:25 |
HuguesRoss |
We shouldn't allow numbers that just go out of range like that |
| 02:26 |
erlehmann |
that is a common response to that |
| 02:27 |
erlehmann |
there are multiple problems with that though |
| 02:27 |
erlehmann |
for example, because of the hilarity that is int ←→ float conversion in the engine, you can actually have values that do not roundtrip cleanly |
| 02:28 |
erlehmann |
also almost everyone insiststed on using MAX_MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT without knowing the real boundaries hehe when i last brought up the S16 boundaries |
| 02:29 |
erlehmann |
quite a few things do actually stop at MAX_MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT btw, like biomegen |
| 02:30 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss i believe that the best solution is to make the underlying functions work well without overflow. but if i understand celeron55 correctly, not checking for overflow in many cases was a deliberate design decision that i have no chance of changing without finding a dozen practical overflows. |
| 02:31 |
erlehmann |
there is some comment about this near where MAX_MAP_GENERATION_LIMIT is defined |
| 02:34 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss how are you finding overflows btw, reading code or ubsan? |
| 02:34 |
HuguesRoss |
Neither |
| 02:34 |
HuguesRoss |
I find them by following code execution paths in a debugger |
| 02:36 |
HuguesRoss |
Does mineclonia's `spawn_structure` use find_nodes_in_area? Or just the mapgen spawning? |
| 02:36 |
HuguesRoss |
I suspect it does, but I'm getting towards that time of the night where it's hard to read code |
| 02:40 |
HuguesRoss |
Ok, looks like it doesn't but the callback after does in the case of the desert temples I've been dropping into the border |
| 02:41 |
HuguesRoss |
good |
| 02:42 |
HuguesRoss |
I think I'm probably satisfied with this. I could dig deeper with some engine modifs, but between the test code and the basic checks I've done manually I think this is ok to merge. |
| 02:42 |
HuguesRoss |
I'm not doing it tonight though, not a good idea to merge code right before disappearing |
| 02:44 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss the spawning structure code has callbacks that use minetest.find_nodes_in_area() |
| 02:44 |
HuguesRoss |
yes, I was able to find it thankfully |
| 02:44 |
HuguesRoss |
Thank you for confirming it |
| 02:45 |
erlehmann |
i appreciate the effort you put into this stuff |
| 02:45 |
HuguesRoss |
I try to give a level of scrutiny roughly on-par with what would be expected of me at work |
| 02:45 |
erlehmann |
very nice |
| 02:45 |
HuguesRoss |
Which is to say, not amazing but still reasonably thorough |
| 02:46 |
erlehmann |
well, it's probably better than whatever happened before at that code path (if it was ever reviewed) |
| 02:46 |
erlehmann |
because you would not have found anything if it was, i guess |
| 02:46 |
HuguesRoss |
Usually we have specialists for this sort of testing, it's too bad we don't have any of those here lol |
| 02:47 |
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| 02:48 |
HuguesRoss |
hm, come to think of it |
| 02:49 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss i believe that josiah_wi is trying to restore unit tests for irrlichtmt |
| 02:49 |
erlehmann |
maybe you wanna take a look at that |
| 02:50 |
HuguesRoss |
I'm no expert, but I can take a look sometime. I'll put it on The List |
| 02:50 |
erlehmann |
beyond that, i believe that tests are, unfortunately, only acceptable right now, if they are added as regression tests. i don't really understand why, but this is, for example, why my suggestion of using sanitizers in the CI to catch bugs was not done IIRC. |
| 02:50 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss could you share your debugging setup for minetest btw? |
| 02:51 |
erlehmann |
compile options and all that |
| 02:51 |
HuguesRoss |
I'm just running it out of the box in CLion |
| 02:51 |
HuguesRoss |
You could probably do the same with GDB or any other IDE providing a frontend to it |
| 02:52 |
HuguesRoss |
I'm not usually an IDE guy, but for C++ I find their debugging tools useful |
| 02:52 |
HuguesRoss |
You can do most everything they do in the CLI, but it's more of a pain |
| 02:52 |
erlehmann |
https://www.jetbrains.com/clion/ this one i assume? |
| 02:52 |
HuguesRoss |
yup |
| 02:52 |
HuguesRoss |
Costs money though, and not FOSS |
| 02:52 |
erlehmann |
> Generate tons of boilerplate code instantly. |
| 02:52 |
erlehmann |
oh lol |
| 02:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Clion is pretty good |
| 02:53 |
erlehmann |
that is the most hilarious start of a marketing text for a CVE++ IDE i have seen |
| 02:53 |
erlehmann |
like who *wouldn't* want to generate tons of boilerplate code!? |
| 02:53 |
erlehmann |
:D |
| 02:53 |
HuguesRoss |
I will note that CLion feels pretty sluggish. It works well, but likes to take its time doing so |
| 02:54 |
HuguesRoss |
I tried a couple FOSS alternatives, but I found they didn't work as well sadly. I'll probably keep looking just in case though |
| 02:54 |
erlehmann |
i have 2GB ram on the machine i am writing on, do i need to look closer on this IDE or not? |
| 02:55 |
rubenwardy |
Clion uses lldb |
| 02:55 |
HuguesRoss |
Definitely not, right now I think it's using 4GB |
| 02:55 |
erlehmann |
ok thx |
| 02:55 |
rubenwardy |
I use clion, I like intellij IDEs |
| 02:56 |
HuguesRoss |
Until recently the only Jetbrains product I'd gotten much use out of was dotPeek |
| 02:56 |
rubenwardy |
I use VSCode(ium) for most things though, but the C++ support isn't very good |
| 02:58 |
HuguesRoss |
Anyway, I'm gonna go sleep probably. |
| 02:59 |
HuguesRoss |
Only thing left, rubenwardy do you happen to know how the 2 approval rule interacts with coredev PRs? I don't remember if there's an exception or not, but we should probably get a 2nd review on #11866 either way |
| 02:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11866 -- Raise max mapgen limit constant to align with MapBlock by sfan5 |
| 02:59 |
rubenwardy |
self approval counts |
| 02:59 |
rubenwardy |
so as a core dev, sfan only needs on other approval |
| 03:00 |
HuguesRoss |
Cool, in that case we're probably good then |
| 03:00 |
rubenwardy |
however, he can wait for more than one other if he wants to exercise caution |
| 03:00 |
HuguesRoss |
I'll ask him tomorrow then |
| 03:00 |
rubenwardy |
you shouldn't assume self approval |
| 03:01 |
HuguesRoss |
Alright, I think I've got it. I could've sworn this was written down somewhere, but I couldn't find it |
| 03:14 |
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| 04:03 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> HuguesRoss, have you tried vscodium with the c++ extention? |
| 04:29 |
[0] |
The official C++ extension can't (legally) be used with the OSS builds of code, but it works with the clangd extension. You have to run cmake with -DCMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS=TRUE. You'll also have to add --compile-commands-dir=... to the clangd arguments if you're doing an out-of-source build. |
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| 10:03 |
Baytuch |
hmm.. - "Spoofing yout IP" |
| 10:03 |
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| 10:04 |
Baytuch |
Good morning |
| 11:26 |
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| 11:50 |
sfan5 |
looks like I'll prepare a PR to disable basic_debug |
| 11:51 |
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| 12:05 |
sfan5 |
it appears none of the privileges (interact, shout or the new basic_debug) are documented anywhere |
| 12:06 |
sfan5 |
except in-game but that's not "documentation" |
| 12:12 |
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| 12:12 |
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| 12:19 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Will a simple section in lua_api.txt work for this? |
| 12:22 |
sfan5 |
sure |
| 12:28 |
Baytuch |
Let it be the option if necessary |
| 12:39 |
sfan5 |
merging #11866, #12013, #12014 soon |
| 12:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11866 -- Raise max mapgen limit constant to align with MapBlock by sfan5 |
| 12:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12013 -- Fix Minetest logo when installed system-wide. by rollerozxa |
| 12:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12014 -- Update builtin translation by Wuzzy2 |
| 12:56 |
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| 14:14 |
erlehmann |
HuguesRoss are you going to file an issue for the buffer overflow you found? or is it a known one? |
| 14:15 |
HuguesRoss |
Well, for starters it's an integer overflow |
| 14:15 |
HuguesRoss |
and yeah, once I'm properly awake |
| 14:15 |
erlehmann |
sorry, i am not awake either |
| 14:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> 12011 makes me sad |
| 14:16 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I haven't been able to come up with a way to avoid integer overflows. |
| 14:17 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi what do you mean? |
| 14:17 |
erlehmann |
what is hard about avoiding them? |
| 14:17 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Unless you clamp values, every addition or multiplication operation is a possible overflow. |
| 14:19 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: mind having a quick look at game#2924 |
| 14:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2924 -- Addition for translation (uk) by baytuch |
| 14:20 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi you can check input values before doing a calculation to prevent overflow |
| 14:25 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi you can find a lot of examples like this when you look for solutions, does that make sense to you?: int safe_add(int a, int b) { if (a >= 0) { if (b > (INT_MAX - a)) { /* overflow */ } } else { if (b < (INT_MIN - a)) { /* underflow */ } } return a + b; } |
| 14:25 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Thanks. |
| 14:25 |
erlehmann |
if you use gcc, there are also some builtins https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Integer-Overflow-Builtins.html |
| 14:26 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi i believe every example calls these safe_add, but some of them do the addition before checking. you must never do this! signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour, so any checks might be optimized out in such a case. |
| 14:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Always using floats/doubles is not as stupid as it might seem: At least you get proper infinities instead of over/underflows. |
| 14:27 |
erlehmann |
luatic i divided by zero in lua and got inf and it was fine because coras code tried to calculate time to next frame from fps setting and i input 0 ^^ |
| 14:27 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Minetest needs to run on old machines that might not be as optimized for floating point arithmetic as modern machines, no? |
| 14:28 |
erlehmann |
computers are fast |
| 14:28 |
erlehmann |
let me again say that i am on a thinkpad t60, minetest runs fine there |
| 14:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Floating point arithmetic is surprisingly fast, even on old machines |
| 14:29 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Minetest runs at 5 to 12 FPS singleplayer and 1 or 2 FPS multiplayer on my dev computer. Performance matters to me haha. |
| 14:29 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi i may have sent you this! https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/theres-only-four-billion-floatsso-test-them-all/ |
| 14:29 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi oh, that is unfortunate. what kind of computer is it? also, is it on windows? |
| 14:30 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> It's a Dell Inspiron 531 with 2 extra RAM chips. It has an Athalon processor with 2 cores, and I'm running 62 bit Debian Bullseye. |
| 14:31 |
erlehmann |
62 bit? |
| 14:31 |
erlehmann |
:D |
| 14:31 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> 64 bit, sorry |
| 14:31 |
ROllerozxa |
aw man, is basic_debug going to be reverted last minute? |
| 14:32 |
erlehmann |
i hope so |
| 14:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> we'll see, sfan5's PR doesn't seem quite ready yet and has just been removed from the 5.5 milestone? |
| 14:32 |
erlehmann |
Wuzzy was right about it being messed up |
| 14:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'll try to make an alternative PR to turn it into a HUD flag |
| 14:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Should I turn the debug priv into a HUD flag as well? |
| 14:32 |
erlehmann |
uh |
| 14:32 |
ROllerozxa |
I'd prefer if it was given to singleplayer by default and up to the games to explicitly disable them |
| 14:32 |
sfan5 |
the removal from milestone has no meaning |
| 14:32 |
sfan5 |
PRs to add anything new will not be accepted one day before release |
| 14:33 |
sfan5 |
s/one day before/on the day of/ |
| 14:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> it isn't really "new", it just swaps out the privs for HUD flags... |
| 14:33 |
erlehmann |
luatic are you sure we can figure out all the downsides with your approach if it has taken forever to figure out the downside with this approach? |
| 14:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the downsides with this approach are on the modders, that's the neat part :D |
| 14:34 |
erlehmann |
you monster :P |
| 14:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Anyways, I'll make a PR, may wait until 5.6 I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 14:38 |
erlehmann |
rubenwardy celeron55 DM me your IBAN and whatever else i may need (a name? transaction purpose? unclear) to donate for minetest/contentdb hosting pls (i'll use the info from whoever messages me first) |
| 14:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ... |
| 14:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> your bribery isn't working erlehmann |
| 14:39 |
erlehmann |
luatic the PR got merged. i intend to keep my work regardless of if it was the result of bribery. |
| 14:39 |
erlehmann |
my word |
| 14:42 |
erlehmann |
also minetest has given me much more fun than any other game i have played i think, so maybe i *should* donate something else than complaints :P |
| 14:43 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi super weird that minetest is so slow on your machine, wanna query me and i try to figure sth out? |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
erlehmann: contact sfan5 directly to fund contentdb hosting. he probably won't accept it though. and i'm good for years of hosting for my part (which does not include contentdb) |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
eh |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
i mean rubenwardy |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
he probably will accept it |
| 14:46 |
celeron55 |
sfan5 won't, but you didn't ask to fund the serverlist |
| 14:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> honestly erlehmann should probably be donating to sfan5 if anything |
| 14:47 |
sfan5 |
money cannot be exchanged for time so that'd be pointless |
| 14:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> money is exchanged for time all the time |
| 14:47 |
celeron55 |
i have heard rubenwardy also good money wise regarding to hosting though |
| 14:47 |
sfan5 |
not in those quantities |
| 14:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> true |
| 14:48 |
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Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:48 |
celeron55 |
the other thing about converting money to time is that people usually have full time work elsewhere that they can't take time off to do other work even if they were paid for it |
| 14:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> wow, HUD flags were written with forwards-compatibility in mind! |
| 14:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the server can send a mask that is |
| 14:51 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 it's not about paying for time (way too little money for that), it's about sending a message. “this PR is worth as much as buying a full game is to me”. i could have also said i'd donate to a charity of your choice, but then i thought that there are definitely charities i do not agree with. |
| 14:52 |
erlehmann |
nvm, i won't make such an offer again, apparently it is more upsetting than anything. (my existing 2 still stand though.) |
| 14:52 |
celeron55 |
the thing is, you really can't vote with donations |
| 14:53 |
erlehmann |
nah, i just thought maybe it gets someone's attention |
| 14:53 |
celeron55 |
we don't have a system in place for that, and we haven't unofficially done such thing, ever |
| 14:53 |
erlehmann |
i figured it's a curveball |
| 14:53 |
erlehmann |
dw i doubt i can buy PRs lol |
| 14:54 |
erlehmann |
i just thought it might be a better attention grabber than whining on irc (bc i have tried that) |
| 14:54 |
erlehmann |
as i said, i won't do it again. |
| 14:55 |
celeron55 |
if you want to make a post on social media that you wanted to pay full price for minetest and did so by donating to a charity of the developer's choice, my choice will be EFF |
| 14:55 |
erlehmann |
ok, i'll donate to the eff if neither you nor rubenwardy wants it! |
| 14:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> what!? |
| 14:56 |
erlehmann |
i believe i should stop taliking about this |
| 14:56 |
celeron55 |
this is a bit silly but you do have a point |
| 14:56 |
erlehmann |
wdym “have a point?” |
| 14:56 |
erlehmann |
with what |
| 14:57 |
celeron55 |
i mean, you're getting attention with money |
| 14:57 |
celeron55 |
8) |
| 14:58 |
celeron55 |
your other option is to save the money and offer it to me in the future when/if i or someone else has an actual use for it that benefits MT |
| 14:58 |
celeron55 |
i don't want to bank donations, it's borderline illegal and doesn't promote trust |
| 14:59 |
erlehmann |
oh, i see. |
| 14:59 |
erlehmann |
makes sense |
| 15:00 |
erlehmann |
years ago, when i collected donations for a thing where the hosting costs exceeded my income (huge download, got too popular), i also only asked for donations to cover current, not far future costs. |
| 15:01 |
celeron55 |
i have enough for years of hosting. at this rate i'm considering removing the paypal donation option from the website. i got what i need to host the website, and don't have so much time to use for MT that "paying" donations to myself would feel fair |
| 15:01 |
erlehmann |
understandable |
| 15:01 |
erlehmann |
hmm, the CI is not a cost center? |
| 15:02 |
ROllerozxa |
github actions is free |
| 15:02 |
erlehmann |
oh, i didn't know |
| 15:02 |
ROllerozxa |
for public open source repositories at least |
| 15:02 |
ROllerozxa |
anyways put the money to a bounty for libopenmpt support in minetest :) |
| 15:02 |
celeron55 |
the only official hosting that's coming from someone's pocket is sfan5's serverlist. but he refuses donations because he hosts other stuff on the same machine |
| 15:04 |
celeron55 |
the increase of donations needed to pay someone full time is something like 100x compared to hosting costs |
| 15:04 |
erlehmann |
ROllerozxa funny, but i am not a fan of sending obscure input formats over the network. |
| 15:04 |
celeron55 |
hosting is tens of money units per month total, a monthly full time paycheck is thousands |
| 15:04 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 i wanted to specifically avoid to give money to a person instead of a cause, bc it's a) way too little b) it's too close to actual bribery. |
| 15:08 |
ROllerozxa |
erlehmann: aw come on, libopenmpt has seen a lot of testing to not crash on malformed files (fuzz-testing and whatnot). it's certainly better than the older libmodplug library which is essentially abandoned at this point |
| 15:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> c55: why not keep the donation link up, but use the money for core dev voted bug bounties? |
| 15:09 |
ROllerozxa |
erlehmann: I just want to see the possibility for music in minetest that isn't absolutely massive. MO3 in particular would be awesome for minetest |
| 15:09 |
erlehmann |
ROllerozxa i see the appeal, but minetest is so full of holes it is not funny |
| 15:10 |
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| 15:10 |
erlehmann |
no need to add more rn |
| 15:10 |
erlehmann |
ROllerozxa could you give me a small example program to fuzz? |
| 15:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> minetest cant even keep audio working that long on windows anyways lol |
| 15:11 |
celeron55 |
Jonathon: we can think about core dev voted bug bounties, not sure. if such were implemented, then the donation link should go directly to the issue on bountysource or some such |
| 15:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> just a suggestion |
| 15:12 |
celeron55 |
basically the donation link would be a link carousel of sorts, picking one of the issues from a list updated periodically by the core team |
| 15:12 |
celeron55 |
or something like that |
| 15:12 |
celeron55 |
then the money wouldn't go through anyone, avoiding that legal problem |
| 15:15 |
celeron55 |
a more fleshed out proposal wouldn't hurt. someone would have to also implement it |
| 15:15 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 since you have not replied to my proposal for maintaining a “stable” version of minetest that gets improved but none of the API breakage (like other projects do it), i guess you don't like it. i'll probably try to contribute that to debian then, adding new patches to old versions. |
| 15:15 |
erlehmann |
(mostly security focused) |
| 15:16 |
celeron55 |
my question regarding to that is, do we have the resources to do it |
| 15:16 |
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| 15:16 |
ROllerozxa |
erlehmann: https://github.com/OpenMPT/openmpt/tree/master/contrib/fuzzing |
| 15:16 |
ROllerozxa |
this is their fuzzing suite, I'm sure you probably could get it to run yourself |
| 15:17 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 no idea. i mean people are maintaining cheat clients alone and those are mostly based on 5.4.1. i just thought it would also take the heat off discussions. mcl2/mcl5 feature breakage was much more drama before ppl could say “just use mineclonia”. |
| 15:18 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi i suggest to read this paper on integer overflow btw https://www.cs.utah.edu/~regehr/papers/tosem15.pdf |
| 15:19 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi you can ofc also do a width extension overflow test. do the calculation in a wider datatype that can not overflow, then check the result. |
| 15:19 |
erlehmann |
josiah_wi i doubt that it works as well as checking inputs though, bc at that point you have type conversions going on, so speed may be an issue |
| 15:19 |
celeron55 |
erlehmann: what you propose would practically mean that almost all feature work done by the core team and contributors would go towards the next major version as most of the time features can't be added without *some* kind of imcompatibility when thought about in the strictest way possible |
| 15:20 |
celeron55 |
there would be an almost separate team doing minor versions |
| 15:20 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 you would be surprised how many game devs are basically fine with the engine except for 1 or 2 of their pet features which they can fake. |
| 15:21 |
erlehmann |
fake, as in: tricks like the spiderweb which is a fluid (?) |
| 15:22 |
erlehmann |
if 5.4.1 was feature frozen forever, there are still untold possibilities, as the game jam showed |
| 15:22 |
erlehmann |
but security updates and performance improvements are important |
| 15:22 |
erlehmann |
and no one is going to say “uh i want the less secure, less performant version. bc that is a breaking change” |
| 15:22 |
celeron55 |
i would be fine with what i just described, it would be quite different to what's been done ever since MT has existed though |
| 15:24 |
celeron55 |
basically, move the versions yet again to the left by one dot |
| 15:24 |
celeron55 |
(and remove the first number) |
| 15:24 |
erlehmann |
if i can get a list of stuff that is definitely not breaking things, i volunteer to apply that to 5.4.1 to make a 5.4.2 and maintain it for at least a year (as in: apply new stuff to it that is not API breaking) |
| 15:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> maybe you should do you research first |
| 15:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> cause 5.4.2 already exists |
| 15:25 |
erlehmann |
the thing is, it becomes easier the more stuff is a breaking change ^^ |
| 15:25 |
erlehmann |
for android, yeah, lol |
| 15:25 |
erlehmann |
sorry |
| 15:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it would have to be 5.4.3 |
| 15:25 |
erlehmann |
hadn't consideret that |
| 15:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> there's a lot of things you dont consider |
| 15:26 |
erlehmann |
which is why i talk to ppl who call me out on my bullshit, and i try to do it with theirs |
| 15:28 |
celeron55 |
erlehmann: can you write a proposal? bringing this up freely worded in random places at random times doesn't help |
| 15:28 |
erlehmann |
celeron55, i can not guarantee it, while writing it i might figure out it's a bad idea after all. but i'll look into it! |
| 15:29 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon I had a coworker once who seemed to be very smart but rarely said anything. when i asked her if she was shy, she said: no, she just talks only when she is really sure, to appear super smart. unsurprisingly, i did not have many discussions with her where i learned something new. |
| 15:29 |
celeron55 |
it needs to be a proposal that the core team can look at and either agree, change it up and then agree, or disagree |
| 15:29 |
erlehmann |
yes, of course |
| 15:30 |
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| 15:30 |
erlehmann |
i just think the “one person maintaining a fork” thing is unsustainable, bc then you get stuff where ppl like fleck or cora are a single point of failure. |
| 15:30 |
celeron55 |
i could write it myself but i'm not sold on the idea and i'm not sure about the details, so it would feel weird |
| 15:30 |
erlehmann |
so i'm going to ask them and kay27 about it |
| 15:31 |
sfan5 |
if you want that branch to be compatible with normal minetest that's going to be a huge mess: you either get stuck on an old protocol version and new features may not work or you have to follow new protocol versions and are forced to implement the same stuff upstream does all while figuring out how to not "break" something |
| 15:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^ |
| 15:32 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 old protocol version obv |
| 15:32 |
celeron55 |
it wouldn't work like that. the only way it would work is features are not to be added into it |
| 15:32 |
celeron55 |
only bugfixes, security fixes and compatible performance fixes |
| 15:32 |
sfan5 |
okay so abugfix only branch |
| 15:32 |
sfan5 |
+" " |
| 15:32 |
erlehmann |
yeah, that would also benefit linux distributions |
| 15:33 |
celeron55 |
i can see it could work, but the core team has to understand it and agree to it |
| 15:33 |
sfan5 |
s/liinux distributions/debian/ |
| 15:33 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 a lot of stuff is based on debian |
| 15:33 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> s/linux distributions/not arch |
| 15:34 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 “tell me that btw you use arch without literally telling me that btw you use arch” ;) |
| 15:34 |
celeron55 |
it would essentially be like an extended support release. there's a chance it would skip over some major releases |
| 15:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> tbh its probably at best just going to become a time sucker from actually working on mte |
| 15:35 |
erlehmann |
why would backporting fixes suck time away |
| 15:36 |
erlehmann |
if you got someone volunteering to do it |
| 15:38 |
celeron55 |
some MT forks actually are in nature just like extended support releases, so the manpower might be out there. the questions is can it be collected into one place |
| 15:40 |
celeron55 |
well, forks do have a tendency to devolve into adding incompatible features and then not being able to jump to the next upstream version |
| 15:40 |
celeron55 |
that's the thing to avoid |
| 15:40 |
erlehmann |
that's why i want it to be very constrained |
| 15:46 |
celeron55 |
people hating new incompatible features is actually a compliment. it means for some purposes, MT is already good enough. so in theory those who like what's already there can start maintaining that, and those who want more can develop more |
| 15:47 |
celeron55 |
in practice, i have no idea if it can work like that |
| 15:49 |
celeron55 |
if we are to take that route, then this release might have to be 6.0.0 |
| 15:51 |
celeron55 |
basically every time people start complaining about new features it's an indication that the major version has to be incremented |
| 15:53 |
erlehmann |
i still think that for a lot of things people should consider adding numeric suffixes to functions. linux has clone2 and clone3 and wait3 and wait4 … |
| 15:53 |
sfan5 |
we are neither linux nor windows |
| 15:53 |
erlehmann |
i'm just saying that is how you avoid complaints |
| 15:53 |
erlehmann |
it's not the new features, most of the time. |
| 15:53 |
erlehmann |
it's the breakage |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
those two happens to be connected |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
happen* |
| 15:56 |
erlehmann |
you keep saying that and what i hear is “it would be *way* too much effort”, is that an interpretation you can agree with? |
| 15:57 |
sfan5 |
obviously |
| 16:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> What's the point of the register_playerevent return value? It doesn't seem to be used at all |
| 16:15 |
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| 16:32 |
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| 16:33 |
Krock |
@luatic none. ignored in ScriptApiEnv::player_event. |
| 16:33 |
Krock |
maybe there used to be one? it's an internal function after all, hence I would expect some changes every now and then |
| 16:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> I'd like to voice my support for labeling this release 6.0 and getting on with it |
| 16:36 |
Krock |
are we doing polls? I'd vote against that. |
| 16:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Wait wait wait, don't engine-default privs have a conf setting? Just add it to that, and let games who don't want it set the default_privs setting in the game provided minetest.conf |
| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Boom, everybody's happy |
| 16:40 |
sfan5 |
that does not apply to existing users |
| 16:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Can we have an upgrade privs setting? If there must be a perfect solution where nobody has to do anything, maybe a setting that grants users a privilege the first time they join since a certain date? |
| 16:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> This feels like an easy mod though |
| 16:45 |
sfan5 |
enough bandaid could be put on the current impl to make it okay |
| 16:45 |
sfan5 |
or we could just drop it and reimplement it using hud flags |
| 16:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> In the end, somebody is going to be unhappy. If it must be me, then it must be me. |
| 16:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Wasn't there a rejected hud flags implementation? |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Also, the priv makes it easy for admins to grant it to players |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> Maybe make it a disable_debug priv? |
| 16:47 |
sfan5 |
both ways were discussed once |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> No, reverse privs are dirty |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> I don't care |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> modlib has utils for checking against them I believe, but the engine doesn't |
| 16:50 |
rubenwardy |
I don't remember a HUD flags implementation |
| 16:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> A priv, a property, a flag, positive, negative, we have something for this finally but it's going to be reverted because there might be servers which won't react quickly (not an engine problem), existing games might want it by default, and somebody complained. |
| 16:50 |
rubenwardy |
I suggested it, but I don't remember seeing it be done |
| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
I either want: |
| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
- it to be left as is |
| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
- or for it to be reverted and replaced with HUD flags in the next release |
| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
Adding a hacky mod to MTG will just make it harder to mods to disable it |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> I'll say it again, not everyone can be made happy, devs have to be ok with that. I'll go back to my cave of trying not to bitch about the engine as much as possible now :-) |
| 16:52 |
sfan5 |
btw that somebody who complained is the person who initially proposed, implemented and argued for the solution |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> I am aware |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
That hacky mod could be third party though |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:12 |
ROllerozxa |
HuguesRoss: I saw you commented on my PR about how it's unfortunate texture pack main menu textures require a restart, so I made a fix for it in #12018 |
| 17:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12018 -- Apply texture pack main menu textures immediately by rollerozxa |
| 17:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Benrob0329> @Sharp had a decent suggestion, /grant_to_all and /revoke_from_all commands |
| 17:12 |
HuguesRoss |
So I saw! I'll review it later, thanks for the PR |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm just going to say that I'm very disappointed about the basic_debug revert. |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm not going to provide a suggestion for how to fix it because lack of suggestions has never been the problem. |
| 18:13 |
sfan5 |
I suppose for nodecore it did the right thing out of the box? |
| 18:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Not sure what you mean. It has always done as close to the right thing out of the box as I'm able to achieve. |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
if for nodecore you wanted the coordinate display to be hidden then the PR did that for you without needing to anything |
| 18:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yes, it would have worked. And actually was working well for those users using 5.5-dev on 5.5-dev servers. |
| 18:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> There were actually enough people apparently using 5.5-dev that this is probably going to be a visible regression for them. |
| 18:16 |
erlehmann |
providing debug info is a regression? |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Correct. |
| 18:16 |
erlehmann |
in what way? they can simply not press f5 |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> They have no way to know that they're supposed to not press F5. |
| 18:17 |
erlehmann |
whereas in the other direction, users who could press f5 to get their bearings, no longer can |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
you out of all people should have no issue considering something a regression by a strict definition |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Can we like, not rebuild the bike shed? |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> This is ridiculous |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean there was a reason why I said "not gonna propose a suggestion" |
| 18:18 |
erlehmann |
i think that wuzzy, who proposed and implemented the thing, now has gone back on it, speaks for itself. |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Benrob came in here to make sure that his protest was registered, from what I could tell, so I just wanted to make sure that people were not unaware of mine as well. |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Mostly directed towards erl |
| 18:18 |
erlehmann |
wuzzy has always been an advocate of users. much more than any other dev i know. |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Seems like the idea is to replace it with a hud flag anyway? |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I am not here to have the same argument in triplicate. I'm here to advocate for MY users. |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> A HUD flag would work for me. It would have worked for me the first time it was proposed and then ultimately rejected :-| |
| 18:19 |
erlehmann |
same |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I can only hope that changes have happened in the project and/or people involved that would make that past rejection no longer relevant to its future plight. |
| 18:20 |
erlehmann |
people can change their opinions in light of new evidence, you know |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> From what I could tell, the priv is only being reverted on the condition that a hud flag is introduced immediately to replace it |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You mean in 5.5? |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Yes |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Also note there is a setting to enable debug info by default, I do a lot of modding so I have that set |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I could support doing that, so long as it doesn't mean I'm ALSO supporting further delay of 5.5's release... |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> A lot of CTF players set it for the coordinates |
| 18:21 |
erlehmann |
LandarVargan now is that good or bad, hmm? |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Whether it's good or bad in general really depends on the game. |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> It means that you have to disable it manually every time you join a Nodecore world |
| 18:22 |
erlehmann |
a lot of anarchy server players also set it for the coordinates, so they do not build on straights or diagonals. griefers like to go to coordinates like 1000,0,1000 or 5000,0,0 and TNT everything. |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> So I discount your 'just don't press f5' argument |
| 18:23 |
erlehmann |
and before someone discounts minetest anarchy, it's like normal minetest with super smart mobs that may fight you or collaborate, who knows. |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
I'll go and import the weblate translations soon |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
then we can merge 12016 |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
and 12001 |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
and perhaps decide about 12006 |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
and then do the release |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
if that's fine with everyone |
| 18:25 |
Krock |
alright |
| 18:26 |
Krock |
quickly testing 12006 |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Why was this added/removed? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11992 |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
I thought it was not worth delaying 5.5 to fix this, it's not a critical issue either |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
is it a new issue? probably not. |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
good that you mention it though, maybe someone disagrees |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> So whats happening with 12011? That is happening before 5.5 yeah? |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
it's happening but the way you might think |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
basic_debug is being removed |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
not the way* |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Well yes we know that |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> But it needs to be replaced by a hud flag yeah? |
| 18:29 |
sfan5 |
after 5.5, yes |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Oh, great |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> That's a long time to wait, servers you can update but not clients |
| 18:29 |
sfan5 |
(misread your first question as "is 12011 happening before 5.5"...) |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
well 5.6 doesn't have to take as long as 5.5 to release |
| 18:30 |
sfan5 |
twice a year is our rough schedule, we can deviate from it in either direction |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Never mind @Warr1024, dev regression time. I give up :/ |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Players don't update as soon as a new release comes out though |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Green: yeah, that's what it sounded like to me at first. |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean technically it works on an "it was never actually released" basis, but there will be people who'll notice still... |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Inevitably it's gonna be bikeshedded for months and 5.6 will take another year |
| 18:37 |
sfan5 |
a single issue is not going to delay a release by 6 months |
| 18:37 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The two don't have to correlate |
| 18:38 |
sfan5 |
if they do not correlate there is no causal relation either |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Ok |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Put a period between them if it makes you feel better |
| 18:40 |
sfan5 |
I misunderstood what you were saying then |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
by the way |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
who is writing the changelog? |
| 18:42 |
Krock |
I can do that, but it'll have to wait about two hours |
| 18:42 |
sfan5 |
take as much time as you need |
| 18:42 |
Krock |
okay |
| 18:44 |
Krock |
PROTOCOL_VERSION has been bumped earlier in 5.5.0-dev already. good so far |
| 18:45 |
Krock |
FORMSPEC_API_VERSION was increased from 4 -> 5 |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I just mean the issue is going to be bikeshed, and when it is finally merged, the next version is still gonna take forever to release |
| 18:45 |
Krock |
a minetest release is long overdue |
| 18:45 |
Krock |
there's surely time for discussions after this one |
| 18:46 |
Krock |
worst case is a stall of one feature, which however should not slow down the release cycle |
| 18:48 |
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| 18:51 |
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| 18:53 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> How hard would it be to quickly add a hud flag? |
| 18:53 |
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| 18:53 |
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| 18:54 |
Krock |
not hard, but error-prone when doing it without good testing |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:54 |
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| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> If those who want it can't take the time to test it then I don't see why it needs to be added |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> *added for 5.5 |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> I shall create a PR, hud flags sound pretty simple |
| 18:55 |
Krock |
famous words before desaster |
| 18:55 |
appguru |
I already worked on it. Remember to send the bits inverted so that they default to one if not sent ;) |
| 18:55 |
sfan5 |
I understand the sentiment but hud flags, migration code or anything more than a simple revert is not going to be in 5.5 |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
weblate commits https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/ci, waiting for CI |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
assuming it even runs |
| 18:56 |
HuguesRoss |
I'd invite you to do it anyway though, the sooner we get a PR the sooner we can start the review process. Personally I think it'd be nice to aim for an accelerated dev cycle for 5.6, so we can re-instate the stuff cut out of 5.5 with the desired fixes at a reasonable pace |
| 18:57 |
* Krock |
goes afk. back in approx. 1 hour |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
absolutely |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
I just don't want disappointment when someone tells you in an hour that your finished & tested PR will not be in 5.5 |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> The problem is that we get in hell's kitchen if the debug priv is not ripped out |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> We're already adding an inconsistency :( |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i.e. if you revert the basic_debug priv, please revert the debug priv as well - just revert the entire darn PR |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Pretty sure debug priv predates the pr |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^this |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you're right |
| 19:05 |
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| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> I'll create the PR so I won't wish I did |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'll do it already |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> I feel like the feature freeze was meant to stop situations like this though |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Oh, you started it? |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Feel free then |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> PR for which thing? |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> basic_debug as a hud flag |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> ah, okay |
| 19:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I guess hopefully we could at least get it into 5.6-dev early in the cycle so people who were tracking dev before won't have much of a hiccup. |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I also want to see 5.5 get officially released sooner rather than later because I've been holding off on my servers at the last commit before the zstdpocalypse. |
| 19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Once it's been officially released then MT will actually officially support zstd maps and I can start expecting players to be able to use them. |
| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> @Luatic my PR works, not sure how far along you are |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Should I write lua_pushboolean(L, (player->hud_flags & esp[i].num) == 0); with or without the == 0= |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ? |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I was done until I realized I needed to put debug back in. I still need to wrap my head around sending the bits inverted. |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Where is esp[i].num coming from? |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> const EnumString *esp = es_HudBuiltinElement; |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'm cleaning up some code in the process |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Ah |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> l_hud_get_flags currently isn't using es_HudBuiltinElement, but should be |
| 19:17 |
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| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Let's recap all client - server cases: old - old: doesn't matter; new - old: debug should be show; old - new: doesn't matter; new - new: debug should be flag-controlled |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> when not sending inverted: new - old: debug won't ever be shown I guess |
| 19:23 |
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| 19:23 |
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| 19:23 |
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| 19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Although, I believe the mask might render this obsolete |
| 19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yep it shouldn't matter |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:29 |
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| 19:29 |
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| 19:29 |
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| 19:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> #12020 |
| 19:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12020 -- Debug HUD flag by appgurueu |
| 19:41 |
HuguesRoss |
re #12006, I've approved but left a note about it. I'm not 100% secure with this fix, and I'm interested in opinions about if my fears are correct or not |
| 19:41 |
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| 19:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12006 -- Abort raycasts that go out-of-bounds by sfan5 |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> i'm 100% secure with this fix in terms it won't freeze the server, but i still think raycast should be fixed to return the right points |
| 19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ^ |
| 19:50 |
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| 20:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> What happens if I try to set a HUD flag to false on a version before the HUD flag was added? Is it just silent-ignored, or will it throw an error? Will I have a way to detect whether I can use and/or rely on that flag? |
| 20:10 |
rubenwardy |
It'll be silently ignored |
| 20:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> It's simple: Clients and servers up to and including 5.4 obviously won't care. |
| 20:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Excellent. |
| 20:28 |
sfan5 |
merging 12006, 12016, 12001 |
| 20:47 |
sfan5 |
starting release process now |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
(for reference https://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest#The_process) |
| 20:51 |
Krock |
60% done with the changelog (local draft) |
| 20:59 |
sfan5 |
thanks for doing that |
| 21:03 |
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| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
I exit an MTG session on the win32 build and it crashes, this is not good news |
| 21:06 |
Krock |
native Windows or Wine? (70%) |
| 21:08 |
sfan5 |
wine |
| 21:08 |
Krock |
shall I test on Windows for comparison? |
| 21:08 |
sfan5 |
I'll test that too but last time it was a problem on both |
| 21:15 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/70df3d54f37c280f7afe60f6e964b8406577f39f this seems very similar |
| 21:15 |
sfan5 |
I wonder how I found out the source last time |
| 21:21 |
Krock |
changelog is done |
| 21:22 |
Krock |
windbg? |
| 21:22 |
Krock |
generate and examine a minidump file in windbg |
| 21:24 |
sfan5 |
I'll try gdb |
| 21:26 |
sfan5 |
310Mminetest.exe |
| 21:26 |
sfan5 |
that's a lot of debug information |
| 21:27 |
Krock |
gtg. good luck with hat. |
| 21:31 |
sfan5 |
gdb says it's the thread_local zstd context deletion |
| 21:31 |
sfan5 |
now this is tricky, because we can't just make it global |
| 21:32 |
sfan5 |
is it okay if I introduce a memory leak? |
| 21:33 |
sfan5 |
ah wait it's the unique_ptr itself |
| 21:45 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> Oh, could we get installer builds please? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11176 |
| 21:46 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy, HuguesRoss, v-rob: requesting opinions on http://sprunge.us/VNVXRz?diff |
| 21:47 |
rubenwardy |
Installer builds are great for user experience |
| 21:48 |
rubenwardy |
That fix is dumb, as mentioned |
| 21:48 |
rubenwardy |
But the memory leak is limited if only one is created |
| 21:48 |
sfan5 |
worse than dumb |
| 21:48 |
HuguesRoss |
sfan5, If I understand your previous comments is the crash tied to std::unique_ptr itself? |
| 21:49 |
v-rob |
Ouch. Thanks, MinGW |
| 21:49 |
HuguesRoss |
ie. can we manage this one resource ourselves? |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
Do we need to continue supporting mingw when we make our official builds using BS |
| 21:49 |
sfan5 |
mingw32 in whatever version we currently have seems to have a problem with destructing thread_local variables |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
*VS |
| 21:50 |
sfan5 |
(in it's defense I haven't updated the compiler in at least a year) |
| 21:50 |
sfan5 |
gdb reports that whatever is being destructed (before std::set, now std::unique_ptr) has its destructor called with this = nullptr |
| 21:50 |
HuguesRoss |
hm, I see. I guess what I'd do then is implement the leaky fix but document it in an issue? |
| 21:50 |
sfan5 |
in this case the resource cannot be shared between threads so the only other alternative is creating a new resource on every call |
| 21:50 |
v-rob |
Is there an alternative to thread_local that we could use? |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: official builds haven't been VS in years |
| 21:51 |
Wuzzy |
alright, I am going on a Minetest-dev testing spree now. wish me luck |
| 21:51 |
HuguesRoss |
That way, if/when a fix occurs we can remove the hack |
| 21:51 |
rubenwardy |
That doesn't make sense. Is this an upstream bug? |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
it's not our fault |
| 21:51 |
Wuzzy |
feel free to point me to anything important you want tested |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
HuguesRoss: sure, I want to get rid of it asap anyway |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
not sure where to best document this though |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
maybe an issue? |
| 21:51 |
HuguesRoss |
that was my idea, yeah |
| 21:51 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5: could we update and use the GitHub MSVC builds in future? |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
Obviously not for this release |
| 21:52 |
sfan5 |
we could yes |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
iirc it's just missing deps right? Like LuaJIT GC64 |
| 21:53 |
sfan5 |
true |
| 21:53 |
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| 21:53 |
sfan5 |
with mingw we (or rather I) have the entire dependency chain under control so I'd rather stay with it |
| 21:53 |
sfan5 |
anyway I'll push the aforementioned awful fix |
| 21:53 |
sfan5 |
and open an issue |
| 21:54 |
sfan5 |
then re-do the windows builds and we can continue with the release |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't vcpkg give us control over the chain? |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
cross-compiling is suboptimal when making native builds |
| 21:54 |
sfan5 |
"control" in this case meant that I wrote the scripts that build the dependencies myself |
| 21:54 |
sfan5 |
just like android basically |
| 21:55 |
sfan5 |
(https://github.com/sfan5/mingw-pkgs fyi) |
| 21:55 |
Wuzzy |
Any translators hanging out here? |
| 21:56 |
Wuzzy |
because it would be nice to have builtin in more languages ? |
| 21:56 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: btw can you quickly confirm that the new version code needs to be 38? |
| 21:58 |
rubenwardy |
correct |
| 21:59 |
sfan5 |
ty |
| 22:01 |
v-rob |
Alternatively, is it possible to compile stuff with VS make make them official Windows builds for this release? |
| 22:01 |
v-rob |
Or is there a problem with that I don't know about? |
| 22:02 |
sfan5 |
temporarily switching to VS is too many unknowns IMO |
| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
in other news I just ran out of running two compiles at the same time while having my windows VM running |
| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
and I already have 16 gig o.O |
| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
+RAM |
| 22:05 |
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| 22:08 |
sfan5 |
okay windows builds are fine this time |
| 22:13 |
sfan5 |
looks like that's all, let's go |
| 22:24 |
sfan5 |
website updated, news topic posted |
| 22:24 |
sfan5 |
>Announce the release on the Twitter account. rubenwardy has access. |
| 22:24 |
sfan5 |
and whatever this involves: Add the new version to the drop-down list of compatible Minetest versions that authors can select for their things. |
| 22:25 |
sfan5 |
if someone has cool ideas which features to highlight in the topic (https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=27754) please write them here |
| 22:25 |
HuguesRoss |
Only thing I'd note in the changelog, the zstd compression is mentioned under deprecations and compatibility notes but doesn't mention that the conversion makes maps not loadable in 5.4.x |
| 22:26 |
HuguesRoss |
Might be worth putting that down just to ensure folks are aware |
| 22:26 |
|
Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. https://dev.minetest.net/ https://github.com/minetest |
| 22:26 |
Pexin |
was rubenwardy serious about maybe releasing an external reverse migration util? |
| 22:29 |
rubenwardy |
merging #11784 in 10 |
| 22:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11784 -- Use virtual paths to specify exact mod to enable by rubenwardy |
| 22:29 |
rubenwardy |
and also making an Android build |
| 22:29 |
erlehmann |
releasing an external reverse migration util sounds good. who of you has one? |
| 22:29 |
erlehmann |
i mean, strictly for dev purposes |
| 22:30 |
erlehmann |
or when you accidentally have no backup |
| 22:30 |
sfan5 |
HuguesRoss: added |
| 22:33 |
Pexin |
I'd consider making that Note <b>NOTE</b> but, shrug |
| 22:38 |
Wuzzy |
"Chop game background in mainmenu" → this breaks the Tutorial mainmenu screen |
| 22:38 |
Wuzzy |
Tutorial uses overlay.png to have some basic instructions on what to click |
| 22:39 |
sfan5 |
hmm I guess I could download the mac build from github and link that on the forum |
| 22:39 |
sfan5 |
or do those need to be signed off by apple |
| 22:39 |
sfan5 |
can someone from the discord side ping Jordach on this? |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
Jordach: |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
that pings Discord users |
| 22:41 |
sfan5 |
discord users have a tendency to rename themselves to random things |
| 22:41 |
sfan5 |
so I wasn't sure if that'd work |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> uwot |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
true, I suspect it's based on username |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
but yeah, hard to check from this side |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> >be signed off by apple |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> nope |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> you can run unsigned on M1 |
| 22:41 |
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| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> app store yes, self made builds no |
| 22:43 |
sfan5 |
so if I download the CI artifact and offer it for people to download they can just run it? |
| 22:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> yes |
| 22:43 |
sfan5 |
that's neither self made nor app store |
| 22:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> with the correct security procedure |
| 22:43 |
sfan5 |
... |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> you have to manually allow non signed builds yourself |
| 22:44 |
sfan5 |
that sounds bad |
| 22:44 |
sfan5 |
can we get our build signed? |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> yes |
| 22:44 |
sfan5 |
not for app store distribution, just file downloads |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> but do you have the functional equivalent of $99 |
| 22:45 |
sfan5 |
I thought notarization was free? |
| 22:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> requires the dev license |
| 22:46 |
sfan5 |
disappointed but not surprised |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> with Linux on M1 getting increasingly closer with full Mesa support |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> (then again, with the fact you're buying a M1 family to begin with, you're going to get trouble) |
| 22:47 |
erlehmann |
well i expect the m1 aarch64 development to be good for reform2 customers (such as me) |
| 22:47 |
erlehmann |
in some capacity |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> spoiler alert no |
| 22:48 |
erlehmann |
why |
| 22:48 |
sfan5 |
Linux on aarch64 is already solid |
| 22:48 |
erlehmann |
oh, OS X is that bad? |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the problem is booting it |
| 22:48 |
erlehmann |
didn't know |
| 22:48 |
erlehmann |
sorry |
| 22:48 |
erlehmann |
wait it's bootlocked? |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> https://github.com/pipcet/pearl |
| 22:49 |
Pexin |
Apple: Your Computer is really Our Computer |
| 22:49 |
Pexin |
(also google) |
| 22:49 |
rubenwardy |
please lets not start another flamewar |
| 22:49 |
rubenwardy |
at least go to #minetest |
| 22:49 |
Pexin |
sory |
| 22:50 |
Pexin |
unrelated question: it's my understanding the IME integration only works for linux? yes/no? |
| 22:50 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> bump on installer build question |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
correct |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
nobody wanted to bother with IME on windows apparently |
| 22:51 |
sfan5 |
probably not hard to do |
| 22:51 |
Pexin |
hm. not sure it should be hilighted in the release list then |
| 22:51 |
Pexin |
if crossplatform then I'd definitely suggest it |
| 22:52 |
sfan5 |
press F5 |
| 22:54 |
rubenwardy |
SDL should help with that, it has IME support |
| 23:04 |
Wuzzy |
rubenwardy: what's a package alias? |
| 23:04 |
rubenwardy |
Wuzzy: ContentDB uses author/name to uniquely identify a package |
| 23:04 |
rubenwardy |
A package alias allows that key to be changed |
| 23:04 |
Wuzzy |
how? |
| 23:04 |
rubenwardy |
on ContentDB |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
by contacting me |
| 23:05 |
|
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| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
basically, it allows changing usernames on ContentDB in the future |
| 23:05 |
Wuzzy |
Does any package use this so far? |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
not yet |
| 23:05 |
Wuzzy |
ah |
| 23:05 |
Wuzzy |
clever |
| 23:05 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> re: discord pings: Its supposed to be based on usernames. Whether or not it is in practice is another story entirely ? |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
Mineclone2 could use this to move to a Mineclone2 user, rather than "Wuzzy" |
| 23:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Oh, ill be the first then: Can you move all of my packages to my name? |
| 23:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> ? |
| 23:06 |
rubenwardy |
done |
| 23:07 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Awesome, thanks |
| 23:40 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 here is my proposal https://mister-muffin.de/p/6WEU.html |
| 23:41 |
erlehmann |
oh, i have a word duplication in it |
| 23:41 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 here is my fixed proposal https://mister-muffin.de/p/6WEU.html |
