| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:11 |
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| 00:28 |
celeron55 |
we're in big trouble; i've just gotten an email |
| 00:28 |
celeron55 |
--- |
| 00:28 |
celeron55 |
minetest is not open source. |
| 00:28 |
celeron55 |
http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/definition/open-source |
| 00:28 |
celeron55 |
go to this website to learn what open source means. If it was open source, i would be able to read 100% of the code of every individual file and.class etc of minetest. however, we cant, so it is not open source, itwould be partically open or "semi-open". |
| 00:28 |
celeron55 |
--- |
| 00:29 |
celeron55 |
i don't know what kind of drugs this one is on but surely something |
| 01:11 |
sofar |
celeron55: send him the address of the FSF, I'm sure they'll help him sue us |
| 01:37 |
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| 06:22 |
sofar |
I'd really like the sneak PR to get merged |
| 06:49 |
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| 06:55 |
VanessaE |
oh great |
| 06:55 |
VanessaE |
2017-03-13 07:55:18: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: OOM error from mod 'mesecons' in callback environment_Step(): not enough memory |
| 06:55 |
VanessaE |
2017-03-13 07:55:18: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 972 MB |
| 06:56 |
VanessaE |
just started today |
| 06:56 |
VanessaE |
fixer jinxed me :P |
| 07:07 |
nerzhul |
merging #5368 |
| 07:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5368 -- GUI: Allow texture packs to customize the progress bar by kilbith |
| 07:48 |
VanessaE |
tried Fixer's idea to grab luajit 2.1 and enable GC64. that got the affected server going again. |
| 08:11 |
VanessaE |
for the record, clone luajit, switch to remote branch "v2.1", open src/Makefile and uncomment "XCFLAGS+= -DLUAJIT_ENABLE_GC64" (line 114 at the moment). save, compile, then recompile minetest against it. |
| 08:14 |
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| 08:28 |
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| 08:29 |
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| 10:46 |
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| 11:01 |
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| 11:02 |
paramat |
closed game#1594 |
| 11:02 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1594 -- Add shape_type and base_material attributes to the shaped items definition by bell07 |
| 11:03 |
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| 11:13 |
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| 11:51 |
nrzkt |
coredevs, i rebased a last time CSM branch (#5088), please add your approvals on the PR (using GH approvals if possible) for merging this branch to master this week. and look at my last comment |
| 11:52 |
nrzkt |
#5088 |
| 11:52 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul |
| 11:52 |
nrzkt |
seems ShadowBot doesn't recognize previous syntax ShadowNinja |
| 12:12 |
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| 12:19 |
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| 13:26 |
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| 13:52 |
Fixer |
celeron55: phishing email? |
| 14:06 |
VanessaE |
what's the cause of this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24170793/ |
| 14:07 |
paramat |
#5386 |
| 14:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5386 -- Get biome list: Downgrade missing biome message to infostream by paramat |
| 14:07 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: I finally had to build luajit with GC64 enabled. started getting OOM crashes last night |
| 14:07 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: hah |
| 14:07 |
Fixer |
i reverted to 2.1.0-beta |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:07 |
Fixer |
since i had lua related crashes |
| 14:08 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: weird. the above error happened before the update, just fyi |
| 14:08 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: it is not lua oom |
| 14:09 |
Thomas-S |
paramat, can you maybe review game#1580? It is actually quite a trivial change. Thanks in advance! |
| 14:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1580 -- Change doors to default.can_interact_with_node() by Thomas--S |
| 14:10 |
paramat |
core.node.dig on an unknown node? |
| 14:11 |
paramat |
the code allows for nil 'def' in some parts of the code and not others |
| 14:11 |
VanessaE |
paramat: I have no idea. the last thing that was dug was a routine mesecons lightstone, which are very much defined. |
| 14:11 |
paramat |
(but not others) |
| 14:11 |
VanessaE |
could be a nodebreaker somewhere doing the digging, those have a nil player def I think |
| 14:12 |
glut32 |
Hi all, I have a question: witch version of irrlicht do you use in travis? |
| 14:13 |
glut32 |
(sorry to break the discution) |
| 14:13 |
est31 |
glut32: I think its the one in ubuntu precise |
| 14:13 |
est31 |
which is 1.7.2 |
| 14:14 |
VanessaE |
hm, no, this ain't about the player def... |
| 14:15 |
paramat |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2530 |
| 14:15 |
paramat |
indeed the 'def' is a nodedef |
| 14:16 |
VanessaE |
note the "error from mod '' " though... empty string |
| 14:18 |
paramat |
i have almost reviewed game 1580, and would like to to help out, but am v.busy with higher priorities |
| 14:19 |
VanessaE |
mmmh |
| 14:20 |
glut32 |
est31 : thanks :) |
| 14:25 |
VanessaE |
no offense, paramat, but the engine failing to accurately report a crash ought to be far higher priority than 1580, but I wasn't really expecting you to drop what you're doing and look (you're not the only dev here :) ) |
| 14:27 |
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| 14:50 |
Fixer |
third kind of jitter? https://i.imgur.com/mphF6v0.png |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
and will someone please fix this crap? |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
2017-03-13 15:50:11: WARNING[Server]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id = 64828 statically but block (49,1,41) already contains 1683 objects. Forcing delete. |
| 14:51 |
nrzkt |
just fix the mod which spawn many tings |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: that's more likely routine, large mapblock updates, like a mesecons circuit or something |
| 14:51 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: no thats clear world on newest minetest with sleep at 10 ms |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: my block limit is 500, and we've already wrung out everything that produces entities on the server in question. |
| 14:52 |
nrzkt |
seems it's not the case |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: oh ok. no idea then, unless it's blocks being loaded. |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: been there, done that. this is the engine either creating new entities out of nothing, or failing to return valid results to things like "get objects in radius" and has persisted for years now |
| 14:53 |
nrzkt |
if i remember we have in master a check to prevent that, no ? |
| 14:53 |
VanessaE |
evidently not. |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
again, my configured objects per block limit is 500. no matter what my mods do, the engine should never exceed that (let alone continue to increase once it does) |
| 15:02 |
Fixer |
holy shit kind of jitter on default: https://i.imgur.com/ucuXylg.png |
| 15:02 |
Fixer |
135ms |
| 15:02 |
Fixer |
i seen 200ms once |
| 15:03 |
Fixer |
in forests |
| 15:04 |
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| 15:34 |
paramat |
VanessaE i agree about the priority, but i did look at your bug, i traced the error in the pastebin through, linked to lua_api and mentioned what may be the cause |
| 15:43 |
red-001 |
nrzkt, I think that the way in which you added the setting for disabling csm might have broken death/respawn screen |
| 15:46 |
red-001 |
maybe disable loading mods other then builtin instead of disabling all of csm? |
| 15:49 |
nrzkt |
red-001: it was what i think |
| 15:49 |
nrzkt |
can you add this comment on the GH topic ? |
| 15:49 |
red-001 |
sure |
| 15:49 |
nrzkt |
i think about this screen but forgot this |
| 15:49 |
nrzkt |
i think we can keep the builtin part because it's very trivial think, no mod, no callbacks |
| 15:50 |
nrzkt |
except core ensured callbacks |
| 15:50 |
* VanessaE |
grumbles at paramat |
| 15:52 |
nrzkt |
red-001: tell me if i'm right: we can open a client side formspec using register_on_step if we want ? |
| 15:52 |
nrzkt |
it's a stupid event , but it's possible no ? |
| 15:52 |
red-001 |
I think so |
| 15:53 |
red-001 |
it sounds like a bad idea |
| 15:53 |
nrzkt |
yes ofc |
| 15:53 |
nrzkt |
just a possibility, stupiod mais possible with the current evnet |
| 15:53 |
kilbith |
s/mais/but |
| 15:54 |
nrzkt |
lol |
| 15:54 |
nrzkt |
speaking french and english to two people at the same time does speakshake :D |
| 15:54 |
kilbith |
brainfarts happen |
| 15:54 |
nrzkt |
sorry for my big fingers :) |
| 15:59 |
paramat |
'engine failing to accurately report a crash' do you mean the mod being ''? |
| 16:00 |
VanessaE |
...and the missing backtrace (i.e. what line in what mod triggered the crash, if any) |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:01 |
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| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
(having the "stack traceback" give a redundant line pointing to game/item.lua is not useful) |
| 16:01 |
paramat |
even with gdb and debug build? |
| 16:02 |
VanessaE |
it's a debug build, but not running under gdb - this is a production server after all. |
| 16:02 |
VanessaE |
that paste constitutes the entire error message before the log separator. |
| 16:03 |
paramat |
hm well bug reports are often not great |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:04 |
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| 16:04 |
VanessaE |
I get that, but when the engine tells me the mod is '' and no reference to find the bug on my end, I'm left with only one option: yell in here. |
| 16:06 |
paramat |
hehe |
| 16:08 |
sofar |
nrzkt: that's certainly a dilemma. I'd love it if CSM could be trivially disabled, but honestly I think there's no reason to if its designed well |
| 16:08 |
sofar |
how about |
| 16:09 |
sofar |
we disable loading code over the network but allow local / builtin client mods? |
| 16:09 |
sofar |
or maybe even a switch to only allow builtin client mods |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:12 |
nrzkt |
there is no loading code over network at this moment and it's not intended to be done shortly |
| 16:12 |
nrzkt |
there is only local mods which should not be added without knowing MT at this moment |
| 16:13 |
nrzkt |
but i accept for maybe stability reasons and API changes to keep it disabled at first for next release, permitting to enhance local mods |
| 16:13 |
nrzkt |
but, maybe enable mods should only enable mod loading , keeping the current lua builtin stack loaded, because it handle the death formspec now |
| 16:14 |
nrzkt |
and we can for release move some trivial things from core to lua (example game main menu |
| 16:14 |
nrzkt |
to builtin* |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:22 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/uFoRHse.png interesting spikes |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:22 |
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| 16:24 |
Fixer |
not related to mesh updates but quite big |
| 16:24 |
Fixer |
even with antijitter |
| 16:26 |
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| 16:27 |
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| 16:32 |
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| 16:32 |
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| 16:41 |
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| 16:48 |
ShadowNinja |
nrzkt: Yeah, it uses the regex r"(?:^| )#([0-9]+)\b" (it doesn't use a \b at the beginning because Python's regex parses doesn't recognize the start of the string as a word break). |
| 16:48 |
nrzkt |
okay |
| 16:52 |
ShadowNinja |
Actually, I looked it up and that doesn't seem to be the reason. But it could be changed to r"(?:^|\W)...". |
| 16:55 |
ShadowNinja |
nrzkt: (#5088) |
| 16:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul |
| 16:55 |
nrzkt |
nic |
| 16:55 |
nrzkt |
e |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt, sofar for G*d sakes do NOT require users to install their own copies of mods!! |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
(for CSM) |
| 16:58 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: in fact you didn't understand the current state |
| 16:58 |
sofar |
VanessaE: small development steps |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE |
that's fine, |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE |
but I'm responding to, |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE |
[03-13 12:09] <sofar> we disable loading code over the network but allow local / builtin client mods? |
| 16:58 |
sofar |
VanessaE: I don't think in the end that any user would, although it will help slow load times if they do |
| 16:58 |
nrzkt |
we are working on it, server don't send mods, we should have a client side API first, with local mods, maybe a store permitting to have client side customizations from modders and, when security will be very very very very very strong, maybe we will string server to client sending |
| 16:59 |
VanessaE |
absolutely not, under any circumstances, should one require users to seek out their own local copies of mods |
| 16:59 |
sofar |
VanessaE: umm no |
| 16:59 |
nrzkt |
the principle for the first release is to have client side mods for customize client, listening for server standard events |
| 16:59 |
sofar |
VanessaE: under no circumstance should a user ever be FORCED to take a server's copy of a client mod |
| 16:59 |
VanessaE |
no! |
| 16:59 |
nrzkt |
sofar: agreed |
| 16:59 |
sofar |
no! |
| 16:59 |
VanessaE |
MC went that route and it was a total cluserfuck |
| 16:59 |
VanessaE |
cluster* |
| 16:59 |
sofar |
VanessaE: what you want you'll get |
| 17:00 |
sofar |
VanessaE: but to get there *safely* things have to evolve a certain way |
| 17:00 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: please don't send dreambuilder on android client you will trigger a galaxy S8 burn :p |
| 17:00 |
VanessaE |
if the user wants to disable receiving of CSM from a server, that's just fine, but don't ever require them to seek out their own copies. |
| 17:00 |
sofar |
we don't require anything |
| 17:00 |
sofar |
it will never be a requirement |
| 17:00 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 17:00 |
sofar |
maybe a server operator may force them to, though |
| 17:00 |
sofar |
but the engine won't |
| 17:01 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: at this moment there is no real question, server don't send mods, he just send normal data, and mod can listen normal data and read it, maybe triggering some UI events, but that's all for first release (on release +2, not next release) |
| 17:01 |
sofar |
nor would we force that in e.g. mtg |
| 17:01 |
kilbith |
I'm siding with sofar on that matter, fwiw |
| 17:01 |
VanessaE |
I think I can guarantee you that no server owner will require it either, because that just makes more support work for us. |
| 17:01 |
VanessaE |
(us as server operators I mean) |
| 17:01 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: no |
| 17:02 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: in fact, you can ask your users to install a local mod from MT modstore to enhance their game life, and you maintain yourself your mod on modstore |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE |
no. |
| 17:02 |
nrzkt |
and we should i think guarantee mod updates to client (if enabled) |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
the thing I can see happening right now is that there will be CSM ambiance mods |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
since those will be possible very soon |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
and yes, server operators WILL tell players about it |
| 17:02 |
nrzkt |
sofar: it's nearly possible with the current API, you can also spam player formspec with ads purely clientside if you want :p |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
and for now, players WILL have to install them locally |
| 17:02 |
nrzkt |
sofar: moreover they should code it themselves too :p |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
nrzkt: can we have client-side http api pls? |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
and load resources? |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE |
yes, they will, until they get sick of telling players. it's bad enough when we have to tell our players to upgrade to a current stable build (let alone dev builds). you want us to start telling our users to go fetch this or that random mod? |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
then we can solve the skinning problem :D |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
also, external download of music tracks |
| 17:03 |
nrzkt |
sofar: atm it's not the case, but after merge just plug ModAPIHTTP class to ClientScripting and that's all |
| 17:04 |
nrzkt |
(maybe filter allowed functions) |
| 17:04 |
sofar |
oh |
| 17:04 |
sofar |
even better |
| 17:04 |
sofar |
let's do it without http |
| 17:04 |
sofar |
let's use mod channels instead |
| 17:05 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: on my server i have a formspec with rules, saying copy the phrase somewhere i nthe rules else you will be kicked from server , and users are not stupid they are doing it if they are interested, and spammers are kicked |
| 17:05 |
sofar |
have each client send skin texture to the server :D |
| 17:05 |
sofar |
(horribly insecure, but, it works) |
| 17:05 |
nrzkt |
sofar: i'm not sure it's a good idea for skins |
| 17:05 |
nrzkt |
nude skins powa |
| 17:05 |
nrzkt |
or nazi skins... |
| 17:05 |
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| 17:05 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: you're lucky. on my servers, users are BRAIN DEAD when it comes to the rules formspec. |
| 17:05 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: sorry i am nespresso and you are a poor coffee :D |
| 17:05 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 17:06 |
VanessaE |
look, I'm just trying to stop you guys from making a project-breaking mistake here. |
| 17:07 |
nrzkt |
there is no break, we are adding new features, and trying to think secure and modular without compromise users |
| 17:08 |
VanessaE |
if it's good enough for every web browser in existence, it's good enough for Minetest. |
| 17:08 |
VanessaE |
(as in javascript or java, assuming a site that isn't stupid about it) |
| 17:09 |
VanessaE |
sending code to be executed on the client is not inherently unsafe if you're not stupid about what you allow the client to execute. |
| 17:09 |
VanessaE |
(as in what you as the devs allow in the client-side of the engine) |
| 17:09 |
VanessaE |
and I trust that you guys are not stupid |
| 17:11 |
VanessaE |
the irony here is I have no plans to use CSM myself, and only maybe two mods in my entire archive would even benefit from it. |
| 17:12 |
sofar |
a lot of people are not seeing the potential |
| 17:13 |
sofar |
VanessaE: have you ever thought of client-side sign entities? |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
nope, because the problem with signs already IS client-side. |
| 17:13 |
sofar |
I can even do signs without entities, I think |
| 17:14 |
VanessaE |
the server can't pre-render a static image, so the client has to composite all the text together, which is what makes signs entities slow |
| 17:14 |
sofar |
well that part will unlikely ever get fixed |
| 17:15 |
sofar |
even node face text needs rendering somehow |
| 17:15 |
sofar |
although an actual font engine will beat anything we can cook up |
| 17:15 |
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| 17:15 |
sofar |
but, why bother keeping all these entity resources on the server? |
| 17:15 |
sofar |
it's purely decorational |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
the bottom line here is users are idiots. you can't expect, let alone demand, that they get this or that random mod just so that one server out of 200 works right, especially android users, for whom locally-stored mods are even more difficult to figure out |
| 17:16 |
sofar |
heck, let the client make the sign entities |
| 17:16 |
sofar |
VanessaE: I see zero problems like that |
| 17:16 |
nrzkt |
sofar: also we can have a meteo mod in CSM, imagine a mod receiving custom event meteo from server and doing meteo wit ha client mod from store :D |
| 17:16 |
sofar |
VanessaE: you'd be a stupid server owner and nobody would play on your server |
| 17:17 |
sofar |
self-correcting problem, imho |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
sofar: that's exactly the problem. now imagine for a moment: most servers have mobs of some sort - the one thing CSM should be best at. |
| 17:17 |
nrzkt |
absolutely not |
| 17:17 |
sofar |
oh fuck no |
| 17:17 |
sofar |
mobs will never be client side |
| 17:17 |
nrzkt |
mobs are server side entities |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
what seriously? |
| 17:17 |
sofar |
stop dreaming nonsense |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
the one thing CSM is most needed for? |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
lol |
| 17:18 |
sofar |
you're dilusional if you think that mobs will be client side |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
*facepalm* |
| 17:18 |
sofar |
seriously, it won't ever happen |
| 17:18 |
sofar |
it's not even remotely logical or feasible |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: you are free to code a mod for this if api permit it and let players cheat :D |
| 17:18 |
nore |
^ I think mobs should be server-side except with some prediction client-side |
| 17:18 |
sofar |
not just that, csm mobs will be worse than server side |
| 17:18 |
nrzkt |
nore: prediction is difficult, we can only predict movements and it's hard to define |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
nore: that's my point. the whole point of CSM was to allow stuff on the client that would be adversely affected by server or network lag. |
| 17:19 |
nrzkt |
other parts are not predictable |
| 17:19 |
sofar |
yes you can do plenty stuff client side to improve mobs, but they will stay server side |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
or that's how CSM was supposed to have been |
| 17:19 |
nore |
nrzkt: of course |
| 17:19 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: a better example is unified_inventory in CSM it's the concrete real example |
| 17:19 |
sofar |
"predict mob walks to x,y,z in 3 seconds" -> message to client |
| 17:19 |
nrzkt |
client side formspec, only inventory movement events sent to server without lags |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: which all of my servers use, as do a number of others. |
| 17:20 |
nrzkt |
formspecs local handling, HUD local handling are all the real CSM usage |
| 17:20 |
nrzkt |
imagine a HUD with shaders effects, if we permit shaders (example particles |
| 17:20 |
paramat |
ShadowNinja if you're around, are you ok with Krock as a new core dev for engine and game? |
| 17:20 |
VanessaE |
paramat: dude, seriously offtopic ... |
| 17:21 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: don't be rude. it's channel for coredevs discussion |
| 17:21 |
sofar |
"I'll allow it" |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: yeah and we're in the middle of a different discussion :P |
| 17:21 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: not a problem just filter |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:22 |
sofar |
priority #1 for CSM mods: decoration, both visual and sound |
| 17:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome |
| 17:22 |
nrzkt |
sofar: yeah |
| 17:22 |
sofar |
hud, ambiance, cool particls |
| 17:22 |
VanessaE |
anyway bottom line, you can be sure I won't ever consciously allow mods needing CSM on my servers, if it requires the end user to download *anything* other than a new client build. |
| 17:22 |
sofar |
better chat |
| 17:22 |
VanessaE |
(anything not sent by the server of course) |
| 17:22 |
nrzkt |
sofar: yeah, i have a PR for a better chat protocol permit to have better handling client side |
| 17:23 |
sofar |
VanessaE: It can't be required since it's client-side |
| 17:23 |
sofar |
VanessaE: CSM can't force the client to have certain mods to connect to a server |
| 17:23 |
rubenwardy |
in the future it should do (minus opting out) |
| 17:23 |
sofar |
nor should it affect anything unless we have some sort of "does client have mod X" type message |
| 17:24 |
sofar |
of course, if nrzkt makes some sort of messaging protocol like I've been begging him for, a server could indeed do that |
| 17:24 |
sofar |
"hey, you can reply to this message? no? kick!" |
| 17:24 |
nrzkt |
sofar: maybe we can add a message sending mod requirements to client |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
web#93 web#94 |
| 17:24 |
VanessaE |
any code the client needs to execute, that isn't already included in Minetest engine builds, needs to be sent by the server. |
| 17:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io/issues/93 -- Fix linter errors by rubenwardy |
| 17:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io/issues/94 -- Add platform dependent download link by rubenwardy |
| 17:25 |
sofar |
nrzkt: inter-client/server mod messaging shouldn't be in a mod IMHO of course |
| 17:25 |
VanessaE |
if the client wants to refuse it, I'm fine with that. |
| 17:25 |
sofar |
I don't see anything right now that would ever force the client to run any csm |
| 17:26 |
VanessaE |
as you just said, "can't reply to this message? kick!" is just fine with me, as long as CSM is enabled by default (once it's considered stable enough to actually use, of course) |
| 17:26 |
VanessaE |
opt-out, not opt-in |
| 17:26 |
nrzkt |
hey guys, i suggest to report the server to client mods later, when CSM pure client sid e will be merged and we will have sufficient API calls to make it interesting for everybody purely client side :p |
| 17:26 |
sofar |
well that's a evil-server-operator option (opt-in) |
| 17:26 |
twoelk |
abou the potential of CSM, do we have a thread on the forum and if not maybe he should have one, that lists the possible uses of CSM? |
| 17:27 |
nrzkt |
twoelk: #5088 is the current discussion |
| 17:27 |
twoelk |
-he+we |
| 17:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
we can't stop server operators being dumb or evil |
| 17:27 |
VanessaE |
what's so dumb or evil about sending code to the client that the server operator trusts? |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
they can already prevent many clients from connecting with strict version checks, for instance |
| 17:27 |
Fixer |
weather/ambience/hud/physics |
| 17:27 |
VanessaE |
if I trust a piece of code, shouldn't my users be able to trust it also? |
| 17:27 |
twoelk |
dont make it too easy to be evil though |
| 17:28 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: imagine we allow for a reason http client, you send mod to client, http is allowed, i can have zombie machines for DDOS |
| 17:28 |
sofar |
VanessaE: I wouldn't necessarily trust the server ops, no |
| 17:28 |
paramat |
channel has parallel conversations :] |
| 17:28 |
VanessaE |
nrzkt: no one's saying to allow things like THAT. |
| 17:28 |
sofar |
the client should be highly conservative when it comes to trusting code from a server |
| 17:28 |
VanessaE |
sofar: and I'm fine with that, too |
| 17:28 |
Fixer |
at least allow weather/ambience/hud/physics mods |
| 17:29 |
sofar |
weather is mostly particles and decoration |
| 17:29 |
nrzkt |
sofar: if we have some server to client mods we should have a more and more restrictive lua stack, separated from client local mods, maybe |
| 17:29 |
sofar |
should be easy |
| 17:29 |
nrzkt |
Fixer: our first goal should be that |
| 17:29 |
nrzkt |
i propose to open a github discussion after 5088 merge tagged as roadmap permitting to discuss about needs and have a checklist |
| 17:29 |
sofar |
yes, it needs a new thread |
| 17:30 |
sofar |
but you have to figure out what to do with 5088 first. I'd say merge it, but, shrug, not sure how others feel |
| 17:30 |
Fixer |
+1 about checklist |
| 17:30 |
nrzkt |
rubenwardy: no squash, i will fix messages |
| 17:30 |
VanessaE |
merge it, disabled by default, for devs use only, assuming no further changes are needed. |
| 17:31 |
twoelk |
I think a thread on the forum with a curatted list may also be usefull - as people there may have quite different ideas than those that use github |
| 17:32 |
nrzkt |
twoelk: in fact GH is better because devs are consuming more time on github, and it permit to reference commits or PR easily |
| 17:33 |
nrzkt |
then we can track the CSM part 2 easily |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:33 |
twoelk |
all true but pretty invisible for normal users |
| 17:33 |
nrzkt |
twoelk: as you say, normal users |
| 17:33 |
twoelk |
:-) |
| 17:37 |
nrzkt |
see you soon i'm off for a moment, if more can add their vote on 5088 for a merge, maybe we can merge it in 4-5 hours permitting more users (on this chan) to test the current capabilities. I let preview mod as a playground for modders, as CSM is disabled by default (see minetest.conf) |
| 17:44 |
Fixer |
sofar: there were some changes to screws, i can't rotate signs anymore it seems |
| 17:44 |
paramat |
screws |
| 17:44 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: make sure the sign has somewhere to go. |
| 17:44 |
VanessaE |
e.g. an adjoining wall |
| 17:45 |
Fixer |
i did |
| 17:45 |
Fixer |
let me try again |
| 17:46 |
Fixer |
nope, it does not rotate |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
hmm I tried signs as the first thing |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
which sign is it? |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
mtg sign? |
| 17:46 |
Fixer |
wooden |
| 17:46 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 17:47 |
red-001 |
the issue with the death formspec needs to get fixed before csm be merged |
| 17:47 |
VanessaE |
confirmed, broken in 07a5fca4 |
| 17:47 |
red-001 |
can be merged* |
| 17:47 |
VanessaE |
default wooden sign, plain minetest_game, no extra mods |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE |
broken at b87ef5cc (HEAD as of now) too. |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE |
(not that that commit has anything to do with the screwdriver :P ) |
| 17:53 |
paramat |
celeron55 perhaps you could invite Krock to be a core dev for engine and game? i have asked all active/responsive 'team minetest' core devs (8 out of 14) and all are +1 |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
and Krock would like to? |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
looks indeed broken |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
celeron55: yes, he said he was up for it |
| 18:00 |
paramat |
yes he would like to |
| 18:01 |
celeron55 |
where can i look this up? i don't like doing stuff like this without actually hearing from the person in question |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
I asked him in IRC, no idea when though, I'd have to search |
| 18:02 |
celeron55 |
maybe i'll ask when he's around |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
<sofar> Krock: are you up for it? |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
<Krock> sofar, I think so, yes. |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
still in my logs |
| 18:03 |
Fixer |
i seen that too |
| 18:03 |
VanessaE |
03-10 12:03 EST in case you're curious. |
| 18:03 |
sofar |
http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2017-03-09#i_4826926 |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
celeron55: but sure, ask him again (maybe he was being polite to me, lol) |
| 18:04 |
VanessaE |
hm, my clock must be a bit off. |
| 18:04 |
paramat |
yeah good idea |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:08 |
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| 18:09 |
sofar |
US went on summertime this weekend (idiots) |
| 18:09 |
VanessaE |
yep, save for three states now I guess |
| 18:34 |
Fixer |
falling in boat from big height on ground deals no damage it seems |
| 18:37 |
sofar |
break a rail under a cart you are in |
| 18:37 |
sofar |
let it fall with player |
| 18:37 |
sofar |
same problem |
| 18:37 |
sofar |
well, cart has no gravity set |
| 18:38 |
sofar |
but you could sit under lava in a boat too I think, without taking damage |
| 18:38 |
Fixer |
hmmmm |
| 18:38 |
Fixer |
m |
| 18:39 |
Fixer |
let me check |
| 18:43 |
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| 18:43 |
Fixer |
sofar: you die in lava while in a boat (no problem here), but you keep respawning in that boat in lava and die again and again |
| 18:43 |
sofar |
lol |
| 18:44 |
paramat |
#5382 seems ready to go now |
| 18:44 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5382 -- Mgv7: Add optional giant caverns at depth by paramat |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:44 |
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| 18:44 |
red-001 |
and you stay connected to the boat right? |
| 18:44 |
sofar |
Fixer: were signs rotatable by the screwdriver before? |
| 18:45 |
red-001 |
I tried fixing that but it had unintended side effects |
| 18:46 |
paramat |
celeron55 Krock is present |
| 18:46 |
Krock |
and if I'd leave, I'd be past |
| 18:51 |
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| 18:54 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i changed the stack enable to make death formspec work again |
| 18:55 |
Fixer |
sofar: yes |
| 18:56 |
nerzhul |
5088 is now ready for a merge |
| 18:57 |
Fixer |
sofar: remember you and vanessa here and I was playing with rotating signs from one surface to another |
| 18:58 |
red-001 |
we also need the on_death callback |
| 18:59 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088/commits/2defddfe71f6b111ef9824cb20689f4232a8489f#diff-52d62464c553a0d0abe5dd142bff4174R12 |
| 19:00 |
nerzhul |
on_death and on_hp ? |
| 19:00 |
nerzhul |
yes you are right i saw that now |
| 19:00 |
red-001 |
and register_on_sending_chatmessage |
| 19:00 |
nerzhul |
why ? |
| 19:00 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088/files#diff-bbc9cdb8c658e05032d423038ca178ebR4 |
| 19:01 |
nerzhul |
the death used that as message ? |
| 19:01 |
red-001 |
the issued command text was moved to lua |
| 19:03 |
nerzhul |
strange on_death give me a lua error, it seems initMods does more than requested |
| 19:03 |
nerzhul |
ModError: Runtime error from mod '' in callback on_death(): attempt to call a nil value |
| 19:04 |
celeron55 |
http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines <- github has gotten a bunch of new features after this has been written; getting this up to date might be a good idea |
| 19:04 |
nerzhul |
celeron55, y |
| 19:04 |
nerzhul |
red-001, here is the current result : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088/commits/fa96c9664a109f33bd1a078d0e9b7a2c85c693ae |
| 19:05 |
nerzhul |
red-001, ! |
| 19:05 |
nerzhul |
m_script->loadMod(getBuiltinLuaPath() + DIR_DELIM "init.lua", BUILTIN_MOD_NAME); |
| 19:05 |
nerzhul |
it's the first line :) |
| 19:05 |
nerzhul |
i don't load builtin |
| 19:05 |
red-001 |
looks like thats the issue |
| 19:06 |
red-001 |
if bultin isn't loaded trying to call callbacks will fail |
| 19:06 |
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| 19:06 |
Fixer |
sofar: i'm confused, maybe it was some PR i tested? |
| 19:07 |
nerzhul |
red-001, okay i fixed it |
| 19:08 |
nerzhul |
red-001, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088/commits/7a6e5a63df1e7a4aa85c8c930f3ee12cf6fe974d#diff-34f48ad91ac6c202ac60b0348ae90e30R274 |
| 19:08 |
nerzhul |
we load builtin but stop loading here, no mod will be loaded |
| 19:09 |
nerzhul |
okay #5088 is ready for merge |
| 19:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul |
| 19:10 |
nerzhul |
we have the switch, we have a little builtin with just formspec & messages when died other parts are enabled only if you configure minetest.conf |
| 19:12 |
Thomas-S |
nerzhul, apparantly your CSM commits are signed. According to the dev wiki (http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines#Upstream_commit_rules) this will break a PPA. Not sure if this still applies, just wanted to remind you. |
| 19:23 |
sofar |
who cares about PPA? |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
some servers use it |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
like xanadu |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
iirc |
| 19:25 |
sofar |
honestly, I don't see how ubuntu can dictate how people make commits in minetest |
| 19:25 |
sofar |
irrelevant, fix bzr, go away |
| 19:36 |
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| 19:36 |
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| 19:38 |
red-001 |
could #5075 be reopened? |
| 19:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5075 -- Players killed while attached to entity stay attached and don't respawn normaly. |
| 19:40 |
red-001 |
the bug had to be revented as it didn't work correctly |
| 19:40 |
red-001 |
ahh |
| 19:41 |
red-001 |
s/bug/fix |
| 19:54 |
nerzhul |
Thomas-S, my commits are signed but this doesn't break ppa, it's just a git commit, update you git client. |
| 19:54 |
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| 20:06 |
Krock |
*it breaks weblate |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:14 |
nerzhul |
Krock, and why it should break weblate ? it's just a signature not an encrypted comment |
| 20:14 |
nerzhul |
commit |
| 20:23 |
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| 20:46 |
ShadowNinja |
paramat: I haven't been around enough to really know much about him, but AFAIK that's fine. |
| 20:52 |
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| 21:08 |
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| 21:10 |
Fixer |
ShadowNinja: i tried new luajit from git, it goes past limit easily, works 30 seconds and CTD |
| 21:11 |
paramat |
SN ok |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
Fixer, ShadowNinja as did I. just started getting unexplained OOMs. new luajit with GC64 turned on (and MT compiled against it) stopped them. |
| 21:14 |
nerzhul |
sofar, Zeno` ShadowNinja sfan5 paramat nore okay for merging #5088 now ? |
| 21:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul |
| 21:15 |
nerzhul |
client Lua builtin stack is enabled for death formspec but all mod support is disabled and only death formspec required calls are enabled into core when mods are disabled. |
| 21:16 |
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| 21:18 |
Fixer |
GC64 allowed me to go past limit but yeah, Crash To Desktop later, backtraces were posted in kwolekr lua oom issue |
| 21:20 |
VanessaE |
well this was on my servers, so no crash-to-desktop as such. occasionally a crash in builtin/item.lua possibly caused by digging an unknown node, but that's about all. |
| 21:21 |
sofar |
I've been playing for the last few days with CSM enabled and I had zero issues |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
sofar, seems #5152 disappear on a force push, i re-add the commit , thanks for github patches from PR :) |
| 21:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5152 -- [CSM] Add `get_wielded_item` by red-001 |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
compiling now, testing and will push |
| 21:24 |
nerzhul |
okay it's good |
| 21:24 |
nerzhul |
thanks to prview mod :) |
| 21:25 |
nerzhul |
nore are you okay too ? est31 ? |
| 21:26 |
nerzhul |
builtin loaded for current core spec (death formspec) no mod except if you set enable_client_modding to true ? |
| 21:26 |
nerzhul |
i will merge it in ~1h if nobody complains |
| 21:26 |
paramat |
i don't understand it enough to approve a merge |
| 21:27 |
nore |
nerzhul: a quick check a while ago looked ok to me, no time to check right now |
| 21:27 |
nerzhul |
nore, it has not changed since some weeks, except today i added a switch and re-inserted a missing commit lost during a rebase |
| 21:28 |
nerzhul |
after merge i need to add mod storage API to client too, our future mods will really need that :) |
| 21:31 |
Fixer |
mainloop draw jitter during emergeblocks: https://i.imgur.com/U5wImto.png |
| 21:31 |
Fixer |
why? |
| 21:32 |
paramat |
.. but i don't object, i leave it to others to decide |
| 21:33 |
paramat |
Fixer those are the long freezes i get |
| 21:34 |
Fixer |
58 msec is not long |
| 21:34 |
Fixer |
i get 100-200 ms sometimes without that sleep method |
| 21:34 |
Fixer |
100 ms is often tbh |
| 21:34 |
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| 21:35 |
Fixer |
there is no mesh updates, yet lots of drawing spikes |
| 21:38 |
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| 21:52 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, maybe you could disable the preview mod instead of removing it? |
| 21:52 |
red-001 |
iirc minetest doesn't load mods if they have a "-" in their name |
| 21:53 |
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| 21:54 |
red-001 |
that way it will still be usable as an example mod |
| 21:55 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i didn't disable or remove it atm |
| 21:55 |
nerzhul |
a - ? strange, but why not |
| 21:55 |
red-001 |
or maybe rename init.lua to init.lua.bck |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:06 |
nore |
^ .example would be better if you do that |
| 22:08 |
est31 |
I haven't looked at the code at all, but don't think I will |
| 22:08 |
est31 |
so dont hold it back bc of me |
| 22:09 |
est31 |
I trust you :) |
| 22:12 |
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| 22:16 |
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| 22:19 |
red-001 |
lol someone already made a csm mod https://github.com/bigfoot547/csm-inspect |
| 22:22 |
nerzhul |
it's great to see some users will find some interesting usecase and give us feedback it permits to improve it |
| 22:30 |
Fixer |
"punch a node to see everything about it." not fancy! "hover over the node to see everything about it" - now thats a deal :} |
| 22:38 |
red-001 |
does travis implement rate limiting or something? |
| 22:38 |
nerzhul |
red-001, yes if there are too many builds |
| 22:38 |
nerzhul |
will merge in ~10mins |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
merged |
| 22:57 |
nerzhul |
thanks all for your tests, support and red-001 for your prs :) |
| 23:01 |
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| 23:11 |
Fixer |
Calinou: they need to block everything and everybody since nothing can be reliable source these days |
| 23:13 |
red-001 |
lol minetestbot got kicked for flooding |
| 23:13 |
red-001 |
too many commits |
| 23:14 |
nerzhul |
red-001, xD |
| 23:14 |
nerzhul |
sofar is hot, first issue, maybe first PR ? :p |
| 23:15 |
nerzhul |
if i get time tomorrow i will add mod storage PR |
| 23:15 |
sofar |
it's fresh in my mind, so, might as well write stuff down now |
| 23:15 |
nerzhul |
sofar, i think it could be good to enhance preview to use all our functions, this permit to do a functional test easily, what do you think ? |
| 23:15 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, are you still working on the chat protocol improvements? |
| 23:16 |
sofar |
nerzhul: I think I suggested this already earlier in the github thread (enable for all dev builds, disable for official) so yeah |
| 23:16 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i haven't do many work on minetest these days as i'm very busy on ansible contributions and some personal projects, but i will work on it for this release, it could be a good point to have it for this release permitting to use it at full capacity on next release +1 with CSM |
| 23:18 |
nerzhul |
sofar, you mean about CSM, it's disabled for everybody as some users seems to use dev builds regularly , but you can enable it easily in mt.conf and after this release we can enable it by default on dev builds |
| 23:19 |
nerzhul |
only builtin stack is partially enabled in master for required gameplay components |
| 23:19 |
nerzhul |
some core parts should be ported to builtin, like game menu |
| 23:20 |
sofar |
ack |
| 23:20 |
red-001 |
I'm not sure if porting the menu is a good idea |
| 23:20 |
nerzhul |
red-001, if it's builtin why not ? we already have all main menu in lua |
| 23:20 |
red-001 |
it would mean adding a lot of functions that other mods wouldn't need |
| 23:21 |
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rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:21 |
red-001 |
good point |
| 23:21 |
red-001 |
maybe just port the formspec for now? |
| 23:21 |
nerzhul |
red-001, keymapping formspec can be a good point, it permits to have mods changing keymapping on events (why not) |
| 23:22 |
red-001 |
I see your point |
| 23:22 |
rubenwardy |
the client_lua_api.txt file should have a disclaimer |
| 23:22 |
rubenwardy |
we should be free to break the API |
| 23:22 |
nerzhul |
i looked at the game menu formspec it's not very trivial because it uses some little ugly callback variables , this needs a little bit rework and refactor to work |
| 23:22 |
red-001 |
you want to port all or most of the functionality of the c++ formspec to lua? |
| 23:22 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy, yeah, agreed, PR and push :) |
| 23:22 |
red-001 |
like move the key change menu to lua? |
| 23:23 |
nerzhul |
red-001, if we can change the keymapping to it at this could be good, second part is not easy because of exiting, and build informations |
| 23:24 |
red-001 |
just bind a lua function to the c++ exit/disconnect function |
| 23:24 |
rubenwardy |
am I allowed to rename it to .md? Given that no links will be broken |
| 23:25 |
red-001 |
it didn't look too hard last time I looked into this |
| 23:25 |
red-001 |
+1 to renaming it |
| 23:25 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy, agreed |
| 23:27 |
nerzhul |
i go to bed, see you tomorrow :) |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
one more CSM feature request |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
#5390 |
| 23:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5390 -- CSM: messaging channels |
| 23:35 |
rubenwardy |
#5391 |
| 23:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5391 -- Add disclaimer to client_lua_api.md by rubenwardy |
| 23:37 |
sofar |
lol yes :+1: |
| 23:37 |
rubenwardy |
also, there's a lot of duplication between the two lua_api files currently |
| 23:37 |
rubenwardy |
but meh |
| 23:40 |
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chatter29 joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:40 |
chatter29 |
hey guys |
| 23:40 |
chatter29 |
allah is doing |
| 23:40 |
chatter29 |
sun is not doing allah is doing |
| 23:40 |
chatter29 |
to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
if the IP changes, //ban chatter*@* |
| 23:46 |
VanessaE |
ban webchat. |
