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| 02:03 |
paramat |
will merge #4374 #4381 in a moment |
| 02:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4374 -- Document how to properly clear node metadata by mtango688 |
| 02:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4381 -- Create texture_packs.txt + document special textures by rubenwardy |
| 02:11 |
paramat |
now merging |
| 02:15 |
paramat |
done |
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Krock |
Fast! We need two more pulls to revive page 7 |
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| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
anyone awake here? |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
sofar (et al.), http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/21548693/ um, wut? |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:16 |
Krock |
VanessaE, that's a homedecor error |
| 19:16 |
VanessaE |
yeah I figured, but my point being, the traceback doesn't indicate what failed in the mod |
| 19:16 |
Krock |
vector.add(a, b) was called with a being a table and b = nil |
| 19:16 |
VanessaE |
(and vector stuff isn't my code so I've no idea where to look) |
| 19:16 |
Krock |
doing lookups in the builtin code is very helpful sometimes ;) |
| 19:17 |
Krock |
builtin/common/vector.lua then simply ctrl+F |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
hm... shouldn't the vector code have caught this gracefully? |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
b != table, so it assumes b = numeric... |
| 19:19 |
Krock |
yep. what should it do when it's nil |
| 19:20 |
Krock |
nil is obviously an error |
| 19:20 |
VanessaE |
treat b as 0? |
| 19:20 |
VanessaE |
(and throw a warning) |
| 19:20 |
Krock |
the target of vector.add is to add a vector and vector/number. Using a nil value there is wrong. Nobody uses nil there |
| 19:21 |
Krock |
it's another thing when you initialize ItemStack, as example |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
looks like it was thrown while handling a homedecor door or gate |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
(there are only two vector.add() calls in homedecor, in doors_and_gates.lua) |
| 19:21 |
T4im |
the stracktrace doesn't say this is from homedecor |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
yes it does |
| 19:21 |
T4im |
it's falling nodes |
| 19:22 |
VanessaE |
first line |
| 19:22 |
VanessaE |
doesn't it? |
| 19:22 |
T4im |
that's probably just the last mod that was running when it happened |
| 19:24 |
T4im |
maybe homedecor happens to do something somewhere down that stacktrace causing a callback, but the stacktrace is too short to know that for sure |
| 19:24 |
Krock |
something has the drawtype2 = wallmounted |
| 19:24 |
Krock |
and it failed to convert the rotation to a facedir |
| 19:25 |
VanessaE |
the homedecor function that was running at the time of the crash is used in so many places that I have no hope of debugging this :-/ |
| 19:26 |
Krock |
there is a way to debug it |
| 19:26 |
T4im |
well that could be one reason, but only if wallmounted is > 5 or < 0 |
| 19:26 |
Krock |
there's no other possibility |
| 19:26 |
Krock |
1 moment.. writing a diff to debug this |
| 19:27 |
T4im |
nothing really catches param2's that are insane |
| 19:27 |
T4im |
nothing prevents it either |
| 19:28 |
T4im |
VanessaE: how often does it happen? |
| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
a param2 that's "insane" sure is the result of either map corruption (unlikely) or maybe a node that had wallmount facedir and is now undefined or not wallmount anymore |
| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
(maybe a sign or a ladder) |
| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
T4im: first I've seen of it. |
| 19:28 |
VanessaE |
homedecor's pretty stable, as is the server this occurred on |
| 19:29 |
Krock |
http://pastebin.com/jxB7EHjk |
| 19:29 |
T4im |
maybe a voxelmanip gone rogue? |
| 19:29 |
T4im |
Krock: that's why I asked how often it happens :p |
| 19:29 |
T4im |
if that is rare, that debug statement won't help much |
| 19:29 |
Krock |
T4im, that's the way to detect if it happens more often after it crashed the first time |
| 19:30 |
Krock |
yes, it could be caused by vmanip or anything else.. |
| 19:32 |
T4im |
I'll add a few smoketests to check if expected param-ranges are messed up on normal node placements already, maybe that will already show something in homedecor or _game etc |
| 19:33 |
T4im |
you could very well never notice it, until you attach it to a falling node |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
yeah |
| 19:37 |
agaran |
would be nice if on punch or similar node-centric tracebacks contain at least node name.. |
| 19:39 |
VanessaE |
the only other thing the log has before that crash, aside from showing everyone leaving, was someone placing a bookshelf, and then a block of cement. |
| 19:39 |
VanessaE |
(gloopblocks:cement that is, which is afaik a normal node like cobble) |
| 19:40 |
T4im |
neither being attached nor falling, iirc |
| 19:40 |
VanessaE |
correct. |
| 19:44 |
VanessaE |
the only thing in the range of the last placed node that could be "attached" is some homedecor skylights (raillike) |
| 19:44 |
VanessaE |
and those have no special code |
| 19:44 |
VanessaE |
I'm at a total loss here |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
T4im: can you sign onto 30008 and teleport to my location? maybe you can see what I'm not? |
| 19:54 |
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| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
T4im: the aforementioned log, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/21553337/ |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
last ~8 mins worth because I couldn't see a good place to stop :) |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
BINGO! |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
T4im: I reproduced it |
| 20:51 |
T4im |
noticed :o |
| 20:51 |
T4im |
how? |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
I placed the dartboard, then executed a worldedit //luatransform to force its param2 to 13 |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
then dug the sand |
| 20:51 |
T4im |
ah, ok, yea ok, the question would be, how the player could do that though |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
:D |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
I have no idea. |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
we already knew it was an illegal wallmount value |
| 20:52 |
paramat |
heh |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
unless the replacer or the screwdriver somehow rotated it without restriction? |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
now the REAL question: who's fault is this? :) |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
screwdriver I can't imagine, it really checks for facedir as a paramtype2 |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
what else could do it on that server though? |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
there's no pipeworks, technic, or mesecons, so no node placers or command blocks. |
| 20:54 |
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| 20:56 |
Flear |
i may get be laughed at for asking this, ... oh well, ... new to programming, wanting to start off with a voxel game, ... minetest seems as good a place to start as anywhere, ... except in any situation i've come across, learning programming, everywhere seems (and i could be wrong) to all say "start like anyone else, with books, materials, and building source that has nothing to do with |
| 20:56 |
Flear |
what you really want to accomplish" |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
Flear: this is more a #minetest question but the answer is: learn Lua from the PiL or the Programming Lua tutorial, and read up on the minetest API reference. you can get started easily from minetest_game content |
| 20:57 |
Flear |
so grabbing the source from git-hub, ... in there any simpler way to figure out what each thing is or am i being redirected to "start with the basics, like we did, that have nothing to do with what you really want to accomplish |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
try copying the definition for cobble, and modify it to suit |
| 20:58 |
Flear |
first thing i was thinking was switching from cube to docecahedron |
| 20:58 |
Flear |
i'd still have to know what file(s) have the code for cubes |
| 20:58 |
celeron55 |
:D |
| 20:58 |
T4im |
:D that would require massive changes in the entire engine, Flear |
| 20:58 |
VanessaE |
minetest_game/mods/default/nodes.lua |
| 20:58 |
celeron55 |
sorry but this is ridiculous |
| 20:59 |
paramat |
yeah start with modifying mods, this will help you learn lua |
| 20:59 |
VanessaE |
but yeah, you're not gonna get anything but a cube-based world in MT but you CAN make meshes in any shape you want |
| 20:59 |
VanessaE |
so you can make it look like it's composed of dodec's or whatever else, but it won't truly be. |
| 20:59 |
paramat |
with lua mods you can make huge changes to Minetest easily |
| 20:59 |
jin_xi |
learn to read code and use grep, its a fun thing but you need to take it slow |
| 20:59 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 21:00 |
celeron55 |
Flear: minetest is heavily optimized for a cubical world and almost all code depends on the assumption that the world is made of cubes |
| 21:00 |
Flear |
so can change the visual voxel, but not the actual one without rewriting the entire game, ... hmmm, ... well, that's a good place to start, ... not rewriting the entire thing, but going back to vanessa's idea |
| 21:00 |
celeron55 |
Flear: it would be a massive project to change that |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
Flear: that's correct. the whole world is a rectilinear grid, but you can put any shapes you want in the cels. |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
cells* |
| 21:00 |
T4im |
yea |
| 21:01 |
jin_xi |
you could just have loosely packed whatevers in the same grid for an airy feeling |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
Flear: there's a mod on the forums that uses meshes to create smooth landscapes using slopes of various kinds, for example. |
| 21:01 |
Flear |
i assume changing the size of the voxel is going to be a mix of camera only |
| 21:03 |
Flear |
having the world wrap around is far smarter an idea than building an actual round world i guess as well |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
T4im: I'm still at a loss as to what ordinary-user-accessible tool could set a node's param2 like that... |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
Flear: the world doesn't wrap. |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
(though this has been proposed before) |
| 21:03 |
T4im |
paramat actually generated planets with mapgen iirc, but gravity won't change around it |
| 21:04 |
T4im |
so you'd actually fall if you were in australia |
| 21:04 |
paramat |
i have gravity changing per planet now |
| 21:04 |
T4im |
oh? |
| 21:04 |
T4im |
how :o |
| 21:04 |
paramat |
well changing in strength |
| 21:04 |
T4im |
ah |
| 21:04 |
paramat |
sorry |
| 21:04 |
Flear |
vanessa, no, but it should be relatively easy to do |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
Flear: it's been assumed that this would be rather difficult, actually. but you're welcome to try |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
(I figure X/Z wrap is all that would be needed) |
| 21:05 |
paramat |
Flear https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=12889 see screenshots, all lua |
| 21:05 |
Flear |
vanessa, its easy enough, ... ya, far beyond my current skills, |
| 21:05 |
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| 21:06 |
Flear |
most discussions out on the net about getting worlds to wrap around are assuming crazy insane complexities, ... i found one talk of how simple it is, ... i don't remember, but i agree (even without knowing how) it's easy enough |
| 21:06 |
paramat |
for world wrap you'll need a custom lua mapgen and clever use of perlin noise |
| 21:07 |
paramat |
there's lots of discussion in the forum on this subject |
| 21:08 |
Flear |
to get seemless wrapping is simple, been done by many over the years with basic graphics (for those who make the attempt) long before voxel games exists, |
| 21:08 |
OldCoder |
I've noticed a hard lockup of perhaps 2 minutes for server announce to list in 0.4.14. Is this now normal and expected? |
| 21:09 |
* OldCoder |
has asked this a few times |
| 21:11 |
Flear |
k, ... anyway, more related to what i am looking for, ... the individual files in the minetest source, ... is it trial and error to figure out what all the files pertain to, or anything to get me a gentle push in the right direction ? |
| 21:12 |
paramat |
all you can do is stare at it for years |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
paramat: and then go insane? :) |
| 21:12 |
jin_xi |
again, grep is a tool to search text and can be used to great advantage and cut the for years part down |
| 21:12 |
OldCoder |
to mere months |
| 21:12 |
paramat |
then one day i suddenly understood the mapgen code |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
Flear: now, to be fair, I learned to code on an old 8-bitter, using mostly magazines and programming manuals that were available for the platform. of course, that was BASIC, with line numbers, yet. Lua is at least as easy though. |
| 21:13 |
OldCoder |
Lua=easy C++=nope |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
so really, the "read the manuals, do it the way we did" as you put it, really is about the only way to go. |
| 21:14 |
VanessaE |
indeed, forget C++ for now. start with Lua./ |
| 21:14 |
Krock |
or load a C module in Lua :3 |
| 21:15 |
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| 21:15 |
paramat |
well, i learnt lua through experimenting with mods, never looked at a manual |
| 21:15 |
paramat |
so you can do it that way |
| 21:15 |
Flear |
i'm hoping for a 50/50 of that, ... have the minetest code, then going through "read the manuals" like you all did, so i know what i'm looking at, ... |
| 21:16 |
jin_xi |
ugh. i found lua to be very weird coming from other languages. manual absolutely needed. idioms like reverse table, very weird at first |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
jin_xi: the only thing I found weird about Lua, and handy at the same time, was the way it handles values passing between functions |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
(pass-by-reference don't they call it?) |
| 21:20 |
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| 21:25 |
Flear |
would i sound overly annoying if i asked for help on compiling ? ... going through things now so i'm not asking for a step-by-step |
| 21:25 |
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| 21:29 |
Flear |
minetest is (sounds like) programmed for x86, any known issues building for x64 ? |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
compiling is pretty easy - cmake . <various options> ; make ; sudo make install |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
the various options are stuff like -DRUN_IN_PLACE, -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX, etc. |
| 21:31 |
Flear |
i would think those are explained, just have to find them while i read |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
here's how I build, for example: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/21563648/ |
| 21:32 |
Flear |
i'm a windows user :/ ... i wish i was familiar with linux, despite certain frustrations that amount to "get with the times" |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
(line 9 is just a thing to let me force a full rebuild) |
| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
ew. |
| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
Linux isn't hard to use these days, certainly no worse than Windows :) |
| 21:34 |
Krock |
compiling on Linux is quite easy but you'd have to spend some hours in setting it up on Windows :3 |
| 21:34 |
Flear |
it's the changeover, ... what i am familiar with is all in windows, ... and dual-boot means shutting down one to go to the other, ... or going to an emulator |
| 21:35 |
Flear |
krock, ... tell me about it, ... :(, ... hours, or days if things just aren't working & you don't know why you can't find a particular thing, ... so the GCC ported over in MinGW |
| 21:35 |
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| 21:35 |
VanessaE |
Flear: I always advise Linux for the underlying OS, and a virtual machine for Win if you really must have it |
| 21:36 |
Flear |
currently a partition layout and sandbox environment in windows to isolate programs so i maintain stability (windows is crap for stability) |
| 21:36 |
Flear |
well windows is great for stability, ... till you install a program, any program, any one at all, then windows is crap |
| 21:37 |
Flear |
i've found a way to keep my stability |
| 21:37 |
Flear |
it just locks me into windows that little bit more :( |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
http://dev.minetest.net/Category:Core |
| 21:38 |
celeron55 |
i don't know about you others but i would say this is a good first read if someone wants to understand the engine |
| 21:39 |
Flear |
thanks :) |
| 21:46 |
Flear |
i'm better off going through an emulator with linux installed aren't i ? |
| 21:52 |
paramat |
for minetest, yes |
| 21:55 |
Flear |
now i need a high-end emulator, ... ones i have (for sandbox compatability) don't support x64 |
| 21:55 |
Flear |
dual boot, ... argg |
| 21:56 |
Flear |
yes, i know, wrong room, ... ideas for low resource consumption linux distro's, ... rather specifically so i can run an emulator for windows in ? |
| 21:56 |
agaran |
hmm I recompiled minetest on 32bit machine.. server works fine.. |
| 21:59 |
Flear |
ya, ... it's the compiler part i am having issues with, ... well this time visual studio is actually installing instead of giving up right away |
| 22:00 |
Flear |
maybe, ... seems to be stuck at net framework 4.6.1, ... which was the same issue it had before >:( |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:04 |
Flear |
i can do a lot with my computer, ... i could do much more if i was willing to sacrifice my OS stability and speed, ... because i am stubborn about my speed and stability, it imposes restrictions on what i can do |
| 22:06 |
Flear |
i would have switched to linux long ago if i still had access the the applications i am familiar with |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
that's why you use it as your base OS and use a virtual machine for the windows stuff, until you get used to the Linux equivalents. |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
T4im: abrac managed to cause that crash again |
| 22:12 |
Flear |
previously, every time i wanted to get into linux the installers made little distinction on informing me on what i was installing, ... dependancies vs. the actual programs, and little information on what the actual programs were, ... leaving me putting in everything from the installer, and then running it was now confusing as i had no idea what anything was and there was way too many |
| 22:12 |
Flear |
programs to pick through, ... every few years i made the attempt, every time i gave up in frustration, ... i would say the installers have gotten smarter. but "smarter" is a relative term, ... |
| 22:13 |
Flear |
i know there is a huge importance in the linux community about fairness and equality about not promoting any particular program over others, ... but come-on, give me a place to start, even if it's a crap program so i want to find something better, at least it's a place to start |
| 22:14 |
Flear |
needless to say i still use windows |
| 22:17 |
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| 22:17 |
Flear |
closed wrong box :) |
| 22:21 |
T4im |
VanessaE: does he know how? O_o |
| 22:22 |
paramat |
please can non-mt-dev discussion (linux/windows/emulators) move to #minetest channel? thanks |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
T4im: no, but actually he was trying to remove the nodes you and I placed, so the last time I triggered the crash, they weren't removed. Same thing two times after, so I worldedit'ed them out. |
| 22:24 |
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| 22:33 |
nolsen |
Lightning bug: http://imgur.com/a/xR5gc |
| 22:34 |
paramat |
moretrees in mgv7? |
| 22:34 |
nolsen |
paramat: Yes. |
| 22:34 |
nolsen |
Why? |
| 22:34 |
nolsen |
Is moretrees already added? |
| 22:35 |
paramat |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3421 |
| 22:36 |
paramat |
l-system's use of 'updateLighting()' causes shadows, worse in non-mgv6 mapgens |
| 22:36 |
paramat |
bugs in both l-system and updateLighting |
| 22:37 |
paramat |
no moretrees is not added to mtgame |
| 22:39 |
paramat |
l-system causes subtle shadows in mgv6 too |
| 22:44 |
paramat |
sofar game#1220 ? also i'm considering merging your coral PR so i/we can start improving it (extra colour(s) tune distribution) |
| 22:44 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1220 -- Move paper, books and book shelves into separate mod by rubenwardy |
| 22:45 |
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| 23:42 |
nolsen |
2016-07-30 19:42:12: WARNING[Server]: active block modifiers took 412ms (longer than 200ms) |
| 23:42 |
nolsen |
Normal behavior? |
| 23:46 |
paramat |
just a warning of an intensive ABM, some ABMs might be slow |
| 23:46 |
nolsen |
Is there anything I can do about it? |
| 23:46 |
VanessaE |
get a faster CPU? :) |
| 23:47 |
T4im |
when you start up the profiler you should even see, which one it is |
| 23:47 |
nolsen |
VanessaE: Okay, let me yell at digitalocean |
| 23:47 |
nolsen |
"DigitalOcean, Y U NO 2GHZ? |
| 23:47 |
nolsen |
" |
| 23:47 |
paramat |
it's not necessarily a problem, but if possible try makng the ABM simpler |
| 23:47 |
VanessaE |
nolsen: otherwise, check into the code you're running and see if you can rewirte some slow ABM |
| 23:47 |
VanessaE |
rewrite* |
| 23:47 |
nolsen |
I actually have no clue what could it be |
| 23:47 |
nolsen |
I have like 120 mods installed. |
| 23:47 |
T4im |
the profiler does |
| 23:49 |
nolsen |
lag |
| 23:49 |
nolsen |
er |
| 23:49 |
nolsen |
hm, strange |
| 23:49 |
nolsen |
no output |
| 23:49 |
T4im |
profiler.load = true -- then you can use /profiler print |
| 23:50 |
T4im |
but you'll have to restart the game for it to take effect |
| 23:50 |
T4im |
and I am assuming you have a recent build, otherwise you'd have to wait a bit, I guess :/ |
