| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:03 |
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| 00:26 |
VanessaE |
these random segfaults are starting to get old.... |
| 00:27 |
VanessaE |
especially when they cause 20+ players to lose connection without so much as a "piss off, you've been disconnected." |
| 00:34 |
VanessaE |
(that's twice today, I might add) |
| 00:36 |
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| 00:36 |
est31 |
VanessaE, any stacktrace? |
| 00:36 |
est31 |
nrz wants to make new connection protocol |
| 00:36 |
est31 |
but that wont get into 0.4.13 I guess |
| 00:41 |
VanessaE |
est31: not really. the last crash produced this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11852789/ |
| 00:42 |
VanessaE |
but that's probably not very useful |
| 00:42 |
VanessaE |
this is a production server so I can't run it under gdb |
| 00:43 |
est31 |
nope |
| 00:43 |
est31 |
yea :( |
| 00:43 |
est31 |
aren't there binary dumps or so? |
| 00:43 |
est31 |
hmmmm has said something about them |
| 00:43 |
est31 |
they can be analyzed later |
| 00:54 |
VanessaE |
that's for windows I think |
| 00:57 |
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| 01:39 |
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| 02:04 |
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| 02:39 |
VanessaE |
paramat: it just occurred to me, that stairs model does not follow proper naming conventions (it should be stairs_stair.obj or similar) |
| 03:39 |
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| 08:49 |
crecca |
hello |
| 08:49 |
crecca |
I'm starting to learn how to develop minetest right now |
| 08:50 |
crecca |
any tips for a new guy? |
| 08:52 |
asl97 |
crecca: it depend on how much you know how to program |
| 08:54 |
crecca |
asl97: I have 0 experience with programming games |
| 08:55 |
asl97 |
any kind of programming knowledge |
| 08:55 |
crecca |
asl97: I have some experience with C and Lua; I've never used C++ for anything serious |
| 08:55 |
crecca |
although I know the basics of C++ |
| 08:57 |
asl97 |
i would suggest to stick to making mods then |
| 08:57 |
crecca |
I'm savvy with GNU/Linux, bash etc. |
| 08:58 |
crecca |
I probably will, but I'd like to at least understand how the core works |
| 08:59 |
asl97 |
the basic tip i got for mods is don't try anything too fancy (ie: eye candy stuff, eg: animation, movement, etc etc) |
| 09:00 |
crecca |
okay, yeah sounds sane |
| 09:18 |
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| 09:20 |
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| 09:23 |
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| 09:29 |
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| 09:29 |
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| 09:30 |
crecca |
is there is a way to display the value of pitch, just like there is a value of yaw, when you hit f5? |
| 09:34 |
asl97 |
crecca: you can use a hub or something, although you can't show it in the debug menu thing (f5), you might want to see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2658 |
| 09:34 |
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| 09:34 |
crecca |
well, that didn't take long, my computer crashed |
| 09:35 |
crecca |
if there was any response to the pitch question, I missed it |
| 09:35 |
asl97 |
crecca: you can use a hub or something, although you can't show it in the debug menu thing (f5), you might want to see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2658 |
| 09:37 |
asl97 |
the only hub example i know is the landrush owner hub, see https://github.com/Bremaweb/landrush/blob/master/hud.lua |
| 09:37 |
crecca |
ok |
| 09:51 |
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| 09:52 |
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| 10:25 |
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| 10:42 |
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| 11:37 |
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| 12:18 |
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| 12:28 |
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| 12:55 |
crecca |
I don't quite understand what are the units used for example in formspec's for X, Y, Width, and Height |
| 12:57 |
crecca |
If I say formspec = size[10,12], what is the size of it in pixels? |
| 13:03 |
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| 13:28 |
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| 13:38 |
VanessaE |
crecca: it's a measure of inventory slots |
| 13:39 |
VanessaE |
2 means the feature will be 2 slots wide or positioned 2 slots from the edge of the formspec. |
| 14:05 |
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| 14:18 |
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| 14:28 |
crecca |
and what is the size of a slot? What determines it? |
| 14:30 |
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| 15:26 |
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| 15:59 |
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| 16:02 |
paramat |
hi sfan5, Tesseract, please could you comment on game#562 and possibly choose between Gambit's original and asl97's most recent edit? |
| 16:02 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/562 -- Default: New ice texture by Gambit by paramat |
| 16:06 |
Tesseract |
Difinitely asl97's one. |
| 16:08 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 16:08 |
Tesseract |
It looks like he made two though. The first one is the one I like. |
| 16:09 |
paramat |
oh, that's the one i don't like =) |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
paramat |
also i'll push game#563 soon, fix for recent stair mesh commit |
| 16:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/563 -- Improved stairs model, v2 by gravgun |
| 16:10 |
paramat |
oddly i prefer Gambit's original despite it's slight grid effect |
| 16:21 |
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| 16:24 |
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| 16:26 |
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| 16:31 |
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| 16:37 |
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| 16:47 |
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| 16:58 |
nrzkt |
will push a little coding style fix in porting in a few minute |
| 17:10 |
nrzkt |
pushed |
| 17:18 |
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| 17:21 |
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| 17:41 |
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| 17:46 |
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| 18:04 |
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| 18:07 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, the nodedef changes in #2897 need documentation |
| 18:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2897 -- Fix relief mapping issues by RealBadAngel |
| 18:07 |
est31 |
otherwise it looks ok |
| 18:08 |
nrzkt |
+1 |
| 18:09 |
nrzkt |
Why 0.4.13 and not 0.5 |
| 18:10 |
nrzkt |
minetest team has done huge improvements, a real step is passed :) |
| 18:10 |
Calinou |
yeah, I hate this versioning scheme |
| 18:10 |
Calinou |
we deserve to go 0.5 somewhen |
| 18:10 |
Calinou |
we've been in 0.4 long enough |
| 18:10 |
rubenwardy |
client side modding soon |
| 18:10 |
rubenwardy |
that's a good reason for 0.5 |
| 18:10 |
nrzkt |
we don't release 0.4 serie here, so huge improvements |
| 18:10 |
Calinou |
no, that'll be 0.6 |
| 18:10 |
Calinou |
or even 1.0 |
| 18:11 |
rubenwardy |
hmmmm says he's working on it now |
| 18:11 |
nrzkt |
SRP, minimap, huge cleanup |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
minimap is enough to go to 0.5 |
| 18:11 |
nrzkt |
yeah i agree for a 0.6 with client side moding |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
it's not 0.5.0 |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
it's 1.0.0 |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
we already decided on the next major version number a long time ago |
| 18:11 |
nrzkt |
who ? |
| 18:11 |
nrzkt |
link ? |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
... |
| 18:12 |
nrzkt |
why not 1.0.0 but source :) |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
I don't have links to things on hand |
| 18:12 |
nrzkt |
i think we should get on 0.5.0 and then 1.0.0 with client side moding and enet |
| 18:12 |
hmmmm |
in any case, 1.0.0 will allow us to use the patch version number for its stated purpose |
| 18:12 |
nrzkt |
i will get some time to add enet implementation :p |
| 18:13 |
nrzkt |
every dev wants this, then i will add this, and rewrite session system |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
Problem is that people link 1.x numbers with a completed game |
| 18:14 |
nrzkt |
1.0.0 should mean minetest is mature |
| 18:14 |
nrzkt |
not minetest is finished:p |
| 18:14 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 18:14 |
nrzkt |
look at World of Warcraft: 5.2.0 |
| 18:14 |
rubenwardy |
ofc software is never completed |
| 18:14 |
nrzkt |
World of Warcraft is not finished :p |
| 18:15 |
nrzkt |
major = huge content improvement |
| 18:15 |
nrzkt |
when we will be on 1.x.x series |
| 18:15 |
nrzkt |
atm it's minor :( |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
<rubenwardy> Problem is that people link 1.x numbers with a completed game |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
Problem is that people think 0.x is a worthless buggy game |
| 18:17 |
Calinou |
imagine Firefox being at 0.8 |
| 18:17 |
nrzkt |
it's not a buggy same, it's just slow sometimes :p |
| 18:17 |
Calinou |
fast enough for my use: Hunger Games :P |
| 18:18 |
nrzkt |
:p |
| 18:20 |
nrzkt |
if we write changelog, i think we could say it's a 0.5.0 not a simple patch for 0.4 series |
| 18:21 |
nrzkt |
there are too many changes to define it's a simple 0.4 series patch |
| 18:21 |
nrzkt |
network rework, mapgen v7 & v5 improvements, SRP, minimap, new API calls |
| 18:21 |
est31 |
if you convince everybody, we can do 0.5.0 |
| 18:22 |
nrzkt |
look at the list above |
| 18:22 |
est31 |
but agreed, all reviews of minetest I see outside claim its "like minecraft alpha" or "a good proof of concept, but far away from complete game" |
| 18:23 |
nrzkt |
can you say it's a simple 0.4.X series patch |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
you can often safely ignore game reviews :P |
| 18:23 |
est31 |
also dont forget texture overriding, now texture packs have real freedom |
| 18:24 |
est31 |
one german person has reviewed minetest actually positively |
| 18:24 |
nrzkt |
texture overriding |
| 18:24 |
est31 |
thats a recent one |
| 18:24 |
nrzkt |
if we do the changelog it dont looks like a simple patch, it's a new minetest :) |
| 18:24 |
nrzkt |
i should build minetest on android to do some tests too because nobody test it since 2 months :p |
| 18:25 |
est31 |
well its the version where you and me have the first real contributions |
| 18:25 |
crecca |
my review of minetest is that it is a very good game |
| 18:25 |
crecca |
there |
| 18:25 |
est31 |
I think Wayward_One does android builds |
| 18:26 |
Wayward_One |
I do indeed |
| 18:26 |
nrzkt |
no est31, hmmmm do some good contributions, not very new features, but cool stabilized features. And RealBadAngel have great ideas (but i needs some improvements sometimes :p) |
| 18:26 |
nrzkt |
i have the FreeBSD builder and the play store key :p |
| 18:26 |
nrzkt |
sorry, Debian builder |
| 18:26 |
nrzkt |
:p |
| 18:26 |
nrzkt |
(it's a VM under BHyve on FreeBSD :p) |
| 18:27 |
nrzkt |
do you think i should release an intermediate release on Google Play Store or wait for reelase ? |
| 18:27 |
est31 |
we should wait first I think |
| 18:27 |
nrzkt |
okay |
| 18:28 |
nrzkt |
i think have some Google Play intermediate steps could be good for Play Store image |
| 18:29 |
Wayward_One |
nrzkt: if you're interested: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&p=183982#p183982 |
| 18:29 |
nrzkt |
ty Wayward_One but i have the build process on my machine :p |
| 18:30 |
Wayward_One |
Oh, ok :) |
| 18:30 |
est31 |
13e100 |
| 18:30 |
est31 |
sounds like google |
| 18:31 |
nrzkt |
13e100 ? |
| 18:33 |
est31 |
look at the link |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:44 |
nrzkt |
i see :) |
| 18:44 |
nrzkt |
i should go |
| 18:44 |
nrzkt |
have a nice day :) |
| 18:51 |
hmmmm |
the reasoning behind skipping to 1.0.0 is that we'll be using version numbering the proper way |
| 18:51 |
hmmmm |
nowhere is it implied that minetest is a finished game, nor do we imply that minetest is a game |
| 18:53 |
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| 18:55 |
hmmmm |
in any case I'd rather that minimap gets good before release |
| 18:56 |
nrzkt |
+1 |
| 18:59 |
|
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| 19:13 |
hmmmm |
how about this for a new rule |
| 19:14 |
hmmmm |
you're not allowed to merge a new feature until you have all the bugs caused by your previously added features fixed |
| 19:18 |
est31 |
I think discussing about rules is a waste of time |
| 19:19 |
est31 |
too much bureocracy kills projects |
| 19:20 |
est31 |
to the 1,0 vs 0.5 discussion: i totally dont care |
| 19:20 |
est31 |
I just want a feature freeze week together with a release somewhen next month |
| 19:21 |
est31 |
nrz should fix their bugs yes but you should perhaps confront him more directly with that. |
| 19:21 |
hmmmm |
i have.. |
| 19:22 |
hmmmm |
fixing what you started should be common sense, it shouldn't be a rule |
| 19:22 |
hmmmm |
but it seems the way things work around here, if it's not a rule set in stone, it gets abused |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
why not discuss about what to do till 0.4.13 |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
certainly we have to get minimap ready |
| 19:23 |
hmmmm |
bugfixing |
| 19:23 |
hmmmm |
isn't there a list of blockers? |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
there is |
| 19:24 |
est31 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestones/0.4.13 |
| 19:24 |
hmmmm |
there ya go |
| 19:24 |
est31 |
but it only tracks things that have a github issue |
| 19:25 |
hmmmm |
how about that notorious texture modifier bug |
| 19:25 |
est31 |
? |
| 19:25 |
est31 |
has it a #number |
| 19:25 |
hmmmm |
nope |
| 19:25 |
hmmmm |
not in that list anyway |
| 19:26 |
est31 |
so add it then, tell how to reproduce |
| 19:26 |
est31 |
make a #number so that the world knows about it |
| 19:26 |
est31 |
or better yet propose a fix |
| 19:26 |
hmmmm |
ask vanessae |
| 19:27 |
* VanessaE |
hides |
| 19:27 |
hmmmm |
you don't honestly believe that I'm just pulling this stuff from my own ass, do you...? |
| 19:27 |
est31 |
? |
| 19:28 |
est31 |
any news about the "render regression" |
| 19:28 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 19:29 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: which texture modifier bug? the only one I can think of is that allegedly texture modifiers are iterated in realtime ont he client, instead of caching the result at the time of creation. Also, allegedly they create lots of extra, interrim textures that are never cleaned up. |
| 19:29 |
VanessaE |
(ask RealBadAngel for better details on that) |
| 19:29 |
hmmmm |
you know the one that spits out that big error with the "invalid texture modifier ^[<about 10 lines of junk here" |
| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
OH |
| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
that's a serialization error |
| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
usually followed or preceded by tons of "\u0000", enough to fill the screen |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
in which case ask nrz :) |
| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
I think that one DOES have an issue already |
| 19:31 |
est31 |
"big error printed" something |
| 19:32 |
est31 |
#1218 |
| 19:32 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1218 -- huge error shouldn't be printed in game |
| 19:32 |
est31 |
thats it |
| 19:32 |
VanessaE |
happens a lot on my Survival server for some reason |
| 19:32 |
VanessaE |
that's the one |
| 19:33 |
est31 |
I guess thats "general entity buginess" |
| 19:34 |
est31 |
perhaps they need to be rewritten, dunno |
| 19:35 |
est31 |
I mean we also have this "ghost entity" thing |
| 19:36 |
VanessaE |
that reminds me, were you able to reproduce that locally with the VE-C map? |
| 19:36 |
est31 |
yes but I gave up after those digilines deprecation warnings |
| 19:36 |
est31 |
they spammed the chat |
| 19:36 |
VanessaE |
well, I turn the deprecation warnings off in the config |
| 19:37 |
est31 |
thats not the way to go |
| 19:37 |
est31 |
they should be followed not ignored |
| 19:37 |
VanessaE |
I know. |
| 19:37 |
est31 |
otherwise development is dead |
| 19:37 |
VanessaE |
but they're stuff I can't really do anything about so I turn off the notifications |
| 19:38 |
est31 |
if not even these simple rules can be followed, how do we want to give even more responsibility to mods |
| 19:38 |
VanessaE |
plus they just plain spam the logs with no rate limiting |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:45 |
est31 |
about areastore serialisation, I think thats a topic after 0.4.13 (I call it that way until we've found consensus on the new name) |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
it should be done with general data storage in the map. |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
we should for example also store this envargs stuff there |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
only as long as there's a graceful way to recover from a corrupt store |
| 19:49 |
VanessaE |
graceful enough would be if the player can simply delete the corrupted storage file and the game just re-creates everything from some sane defaults -- but not if that means the player e.g. loses their inventory |
| 19:51 |
est31 |
thats what I think should be improved here |
| 19:51 |
est31 |
databases have methods to prevent corruption |
| 19:55 |
VanessaE |
true, but you can't detect corruption in a database if the corruption was in the source data before it was inserted. |
| 19:55 |
VanessaE |
that's more what I'm concerned with |
| 19:56 |
est31 |
we only insert data we serialize ourselves from sane defaults |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
ideally sure :) |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
you mentioned the envargs issue, which I took to mean the env_meta.txt file. Sometimes that file gets blanked out and the engine throws stupid errors. |
| 19:56 |
est31 |
so, thats os fault isnt it |
| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
I doubt it |
| 19:58 |
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| 19:59 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/1a1774a1051790ef85b1bd8b047ac45a3676b5d6 |
| 19:59 |
hmmmm |
https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/8eb272cea38325f963c521ecfa7b927a563f8509 |
| 20:01 |
est31 |
hmmmm, https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/8eb272cea38325f963c521ecfa7b927a563f8509#diff-b5b39c3a29359759ac6f0293dc37a453R98 |
| 20:01 |
est31 |
for me that line is 96 chars long |
| 20:05 |
est31 |
the misc minor fixes thing has my +1 |
| 20:09 |
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| 20:10 |
hmmmm |
are you an 8-space tab user |
| 20:11 |
est31 |
yes |
| 20:11 |
hmmmm |
well there you go |
| 20:12 |
est31 |
github is, too |
| 20:12 |
hmmmm |
perhaps we should clarify |
| 20:12 |
est31 |
(per default) |
| 20:12 |
hmmmm |
80 columns at 4 space indents |
| 20:13 |
hmmmm |
hold on a minute |
| 20:13 |
hmmmm |
why is all of that code inside of a *header* file?! |
| 20:14 |
hmmmm |
the rule is that non-template and non-inline code cannot be over 4 lines in a header |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
is it |
| 20:15 |
est31 |
no the rule is even more strict |
| 20:15 |
est31 |
3 lines :) |
| 20:15 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 20:16 |
hmmmm |
well yeah 3 lines is good too |
| 20:16 |
est31 |
or the rules aren't clear at this point |
| 20:16 |
est31 |
http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines#Classes |
| 20:16 |
hmmmm |
not all of them are written down |
| 20:16 |
est31 |
they should however |
| 20:16 |
hmmmm |
okay |
| 20:17 |
hmmmm |
so what should it be, 3 or 4 lines? |
| 20:17 |
hmmmm |
the limit i mean |
| 20:17 |
est31 |
rules that arent written down cant be followed |
| 20:17 |
est31 |
idc honestly, but 4 |
| 20:17 |
est31 |
and the flash commit has my +1 too |
| 20:18 |
est31 |
and I think they qualify as small enough to only require one reviewer |
| 20:19 |
hmmmm |
for all you know the flash one might cause unintended consequences |
| 20:19 |
hmmmm |
but I did test it and it seems to work fine |
| 20:20 |
hmmmm |
so F me if there was more to it that I messed up :) |
| 20:22 |
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| 20:29 |
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| 20:30 |
kilbith |
hi, someone can care of this minor fix please : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2882 |
| 20:30 |
kilbith |
just need another +1 |
| 20:39 |
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| 20:39 |
H-H-H |
lets see if this clean build of 0.4.12 tag has sound issues on android |
| 20:43 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: do you have a link to the serialization error issue? |
| 20:44 |
hmmmm |
also I'm gonna see what I can do about the statically stored object bugas |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
[07-10 15:32] -ShadowBot/#minetest-dev- https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1218 -- huge error shouldn't be printed in game |
| 20:44 |
hmmmm |
buggaz |
| 20:44 |
hmmmm |
oh thanks |
| 20:49 |
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| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
you're gonna have a field day with those entities bugs :) |
| 20:54 |
H-H-H |
wow lol somethings really screwed with my system lol just tested a home built 0.4.12 android build and i have no text anywhere and the buttons dont respond :| |
| 20:54 |
hmmmm |
H-H-H, do you have a non-english locale? |
| 20:54 |
H-H-H |
i can however build and run master fine :| |
| 20:54 |
hmmmm |
so the problem doesn't exist in the current master branch? |
| 20:55 |
H-H-H |
nope im testing it on the same phone that runs master fine and they are both built the same way on same pc with same os |
| 20:56 |
H-H-H |
its something wierd with my setup as if i build master it runs but sound is fubared but i can install a prebuilt one and sound is fine |
| 20:56 |
hmmmm |
you might be missing development headers for openal or something |
| 20:57 |
H-H-H |
yeah thats what im wondering |
| 21:00 |
H-H-H |
hmmm i have latest headers from arch |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:05 |
H-H-H |
est13 have u done an android build on arch 32bit |
| 21:05 |
est31 |
no but f-droid crowd do this regularly |
| 21:06 |
est31 |
H-H-H, still your sound issue? |
| 21:06 |
H-H-H |
yeah its really bugging me :| |
| 21:07 |
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| 21:08 |
H-H-H |
wondered if maybe i had bad openal headers or something hmmmm also suggested this but i have the latest and greatest package |
| 21:15 |
crazyR |
hi guys, just a thought.. would it be possible for someone to add an event.value this would return formspec list value... that way we would not need to keep a table of items to refrence against. hope that mmakes sense |
| 21:23 |
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| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 22:21 |
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| 22:22 |
kilbith |
i'm getting heavily spammed by the same warning while compiling (arch linux) : http://pastie.org/10285473 |
| 22:23 |
sfan5 |
just ignore that |
| 22:23 |
kilbith |
oh, ok |
| 22:43 |
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| 22:54 |
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| 23:02 |
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| 23:03 |
paramat |
thanks for the damage bugfix |
| 23:06 |
* paramat |
jumps in the water |
| 23:08 |
* paramat |
jumps off a cliff |
| 23:10 |
paramat |
woohoo! |
| 23:15 |
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| 23:20 |
paramat |
now pushing game#563 |
| 23:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/563 -- Improved stairs model, v2 by gravgun |
| 23:24 |
paramat |
complete |
| 23:51 |
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| 23:53 |
est31 |
btw hmmmm what about this NO_MAP_LOCK_REQUIRED stuff |
| 23:53 |
est31 |
is that needed at all and if yes why |
