| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:54 |
|
MikeFair joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:02 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:11 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:20 |
ShadowNinja |
c55's never voiced, not sure why. I guess he chose that. |
| 01:22 |
ShadowNinja |
8 lights per scene node sounds like a ridiculously low limit. Are you sure we're doing this right? Maybe every node should be a scene node, but I'd think that would be very slow. |
| 01:23 |
ShadowNinja |
We could create scene nodes for every light source though (or combine them with a little extra logic). That shouldn't be too slow. |
| 01:23 |
ShadowNinja |
Unless 8 per scene node means 8 affecting the scene node. |
| 01:56 |
ShadowNinja |
Also, how should I go about changing the DB schema? I'll have to record a version somewhere. maybe sqlite3-schema-version = 1 in map_meta.txt? |
| 01:57 |
ShadowNinja |
Seperate x, y, and z coordinates would let SQLite3's optimizer optimize queries better. |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
no, dammit! |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
i thought we decided we're going to generate lightmaps on the fly |
| 02:26 |
|
Zeno` joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:26 |
hmmmm |
dynamic lights should be used very sparingly - like for a torch the player is holding |
| 02:28 |
|
Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:47 |
paramat |
i think the plan is hardware lighting for sun/moon only, because 8 per scenenode is obviously too few, even with 1 scenenode per mapblock |
| 02:49 |
VanessaE |
how about poking at RealBadAngel instead of guessing? :P |
| 02:52 |
paramat |
hmmmm, want to be the new audiovisual manager? RBA needs someone who is around when he is, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1710 |
| 02:53 |
paramat |
my first pull request for a very long time https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/328 (for minetest game devs) |
| 03:25 |
|
alexxs joined #minetest-dev |
| 03:28 |
|
rickmcfarley joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:01 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:10 |
hmmmm |
meh, i'm not going to make promises of being around in any capacity... i just hope to get some commits in because there's a lot of stuff on my own backlog, that's all |
| 04:12 |
hmmmm |
I'm still weary about adding NodeResolver to INodeDefManager. |
| 04:44 |
RealBadAngel |
what i want is another coder that will actually work on the stuff with me |
| 04:45 |
RealBadAngel |
c55 is a great coder but pure virtual, he does nothing but complain |
| 04:46 |
RealBadAngel |
actually its a way easier to complain than to code something |
| 04:46 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe a middle age crysis? |
| 04:47 |
RealBadAngel |
"lets ""talk"" about sex" |
| 04:48 |
RealBadAngel |
voila |
| 04:48 |
RealBadAngel |
here he comes |
| 04:49 |
celeron55 |
you should note that nick changes are global to freenode |
| 04:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i know |
| 04:49 |
celeron55 |
i didn't come to this channel |
| 04:49 |
RealBadAngel |
i explained that to folks |
| 04:50 |
RealBadAngel |
but i guess thats not the point |
| 04:50 |
celeron55 |
also, i don't complain a lot |
| 04:51 |
celeron55 |
i mainly complain when someone pings me and asks me to complain |
| 04:51 |
celeron55 |
which happens rarely now |
| 04:51 |
RealBadAngel |
you do when it comes to my code |
| 04:52 |
celeron55 |
no i don't, that's just bullshit |
| 04:52 |
celeron55 |
i did at some point but now you're just recycling your old memories |
| 04:52 |
RealBadAngel |
not so old |
| 04:53 |
RealBadAngel |
but lets leave that behind |
| 04:54 |
RealBadAngel |
as i said previously, i need some1 to work with me |
| 04:54 |
celeron55 |
altough, "he does nothing but complain" might be valid as even while i do it little, i don't do anything else 8) |
| 04:55 |
RealBadAngel |
so wake up buddy |
| 04:55 |
RealBadAngel |
theres lotsa to do |
| 04:56 |
RealBadAngel |
ive spent lots of time learning irrlicht |
| 04:56 |
RealBadAngel |
and i know how to make things work |
| 04:58 |
RealBadAngel |
youre the guru here anyway, who knows, maybe bill still have some spare billions just to buy you out ;) |
| 05:00 |
RealBadAngel |
but definitely he wont pay if u will be doing nothing |
| 05:02 |
RealBadAngel |
but seriously, we are about to have biggest changes since 0.4 |
| 05:03 |
RealBadAngel |
meshes and lighting are huge changes that require massive code changes |
| 05:03 |
RealBadAngel |
im not able to change it all even in the series of small pulls |
| 05:04 |
|
sol_invictus joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:04 |
RealBadAngel |
single adding the mesh drawtype require MANY changes |
| 05:05 |
RealBadAngel |
only you and kahrl here are able to comment it |
| 05:05 |
RealBadAngel |
SN will be able to comment the style and whitespaces |
| 05:05 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier seems to be on vacations |
| 05:06 |
RealBadAngel |
rest dont know what im doing |
| 05:06 |
hmmmm |
hrm |
| 05:06 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, including you |
| 05:07 |
hmmmm |
celeron55, so would you get upset if I added something to INodeDefManager? |
| 05:07 |
RealBadAngel |
sorry to say that but we are highly specialized |
| 05:07 |
RealBadAngel |
sometimes its good, sometimes bad |
| 05:08 |
hmmmm |
I don't know much about Irrlicht, but I'm willing to learn to get things accomplished |
| 05:09 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, as they say, man learn whole the life. and dies stupid. |
| 05:09 |
hmmmm |
I sorta gave up on the mapblock-as-a-scenenode thing because I found out that Minecraft used hardware occlusion queries and it sucked |
| 05:10 |
RealBadAngel |
i also had "funny" ideas and gave up |
| 05:10 |
hmmmm |
does minetest already have support for a wireframe mode? |
| 05:10 |
VanessaE |
not directly, no. |
| 05:10 |
hmmmm |
meh trivial to change |
| 05:11 |
RealBadAngel |
why would we need that? |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
setMaterialFlag -> irr::video::EMF_WIREFRAME |
| 05:11 |
hmmmm |
to see how much we really are overdrawing |
| 05:11 |
RealBadAngel |
no need to |
| 05:11 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: ShadowNinja I think showed that recently, or someone did |
| 05:11 |
RealBadAngel |
there are built in methods to reduce the vertices |
| 05:11 |
VanessaE |
no, wait, not SN |
| 05:11 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: Note that no-cliping disables occlusion culling. |
| 05:11 |
VanessaE |
one of the new guys did |
| 05:12 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Nah, that was me. |
| 05:12 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 05:12 |
VanessaE |
wait a minute, wtf are you doing up this late? :) |
| 05:12 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: dunno, for what purpose? |
| 05:12 |
* ShadowNinja |
hides |
| 05:13 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: that reminds me, how far did you get with that guy's culling algorithm? |
| 05:13 |
hmmmm |
you remember those resolveNodeNames() that many of my register-nodes-in-lua-then-do-mapgen-thing features have |
| 05:13 |
* celeron55 |
is early, not late 8)/ |
| 05:13 |
hmmmm |
well I got rid of those and made a centralized NodeResolver class |
| 05:13 |
hmmmm |
naturally I'd put it into nodedef, but you have it set up as an abstract interface |
| 05:14 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, and as usual. i talked too much, touched a wall. you are just avoiding the problems |
| 05:14 |
hmmmm |
what other implementations of node def managers DID you intend to have anyway? |
| 05:15 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: i didn't even read what you said last; and yes, i am avoiding problems because that is the only way to keep the time down that i spend on minetest |
| 05:16 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: I haven't touched any culling code. |
| 05:16 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, give the av to anybody else, sn, nore or blocken |
| 05:16 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: oh ok, then it WAS one of the new guys who was involved there. |
| 05:16 |
RealBadAngel |
so i could work with somebody for christ sake |
| 05:16 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: it's my way of coding C++ that i have begun to use in the past few years where i make an interface to anything that is remotely complex so that implementation details have no chance of getting into header files (and headers stay simple with little dependencies) |
| 05:17 |
celeron55 |
i've found this a very good way to do things |
| 05:18 |
celeron55 |
of course, in some cases there can be many implementations (they are obviously easy to add anytime when needed) |
| 05:19 |
hmmmm |
something something premature abstraction |
| 05:20 |
hmmmm |
celeron, http://sebastiansylvan.com/2013/08/16/the-perils-of-future-coding/ |
| 05:20 |
celeron55 |
it makes coding much nicer because i can freely inline the whole implementation class |
| 05:20 |
RealBadAngel |
licking an icecram through glass |
| 05:20 |
celeron55 |
i've always hated C++'s class implementation syntax |
| 05:20 |
RealBadAngel |
either something is fast and designed to do things or it is universal and worth shit |
| 05:21 |
celeron55 |
so it's easier to code this way with less repetition |
| 05:21 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 05:21 |
celeron55 |
so i'm actually with that article |
| 05:21 |
hmmmm |
I coded like 4 things that repeat themselves in varying capacity |
| 05:21 |
RealBadAngel |
and so called flexibility and objects are just a mistake |
| 05:21 |
RealBadAngel |
nowadays coders are "coders" |
| 05:21 |
hmmmm |
it lets me see exactly which common elements there are |
| 05:22 |
hmmmm |
like exactly what I'm doing here |
| 05:22 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why m$ and intel are earning money |
| 05:23 |
celeron55 |
i didn't understand what either of you just said |
| 05:23 |
RealBadAngel |
before we had the very same platforms any only thing to change was the code |
| 05:23 |
RealBadAngel |
and the style |
| 05:23 |
RealBadAngel |
do the same thing but faster |
| 05:23 |
RealBadAngel |
now you are talking bout headers |
| 05:23 |
RealBadAngel |
rotfl |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
meh, i was going to elaborate further, but i'd rather not interrupt another conversation to do so. |
| 05:24 |
RealBadAngel |
count the cycles of your code |
| 05:25 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: my husband likes to say that there are "coders", and there are "programmers". The former just writes code just for the sake of writing code, without giving it much though whether that code works outside a very narrow set of parameters (e.g. it's paid for by some employer, who cares if an average Joe Sixpack can use it, etc). And the latter is most of us here, people who want their code to form a cohesive proje |
| 05:25 |
VanessaE |
ct that is useful and generally looks good to the average person. |
| 05:25 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: ok; so what is the point? i don't understand why RBA started talking about something like this |
| 05:25 |
VanessaE |
I'm not sure I necessarily agree with his choice of the two words, but he sentiment is correct I think. |
| 05:26 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, you dont know? im trying to push things around |
| 05:26 |
RealBadAngel |
stop talkin bout abstracts |
| 05:26 |
VanessaE |
what he's trying to say, I think, is that there's too much "let's just write some code just to write some code" and not enough "let's write some code that accomplishes a goal" |
| 05:26 |
RealBadAngel |
do the code |
| 05:26 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: i don't care about anything you have said, and i was not talking to you but hmmmm |
| 05:26 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: could you please continue your discussion, this is fucking ridiculous |
| 05:27 |
RealBadAngel |
sure |
| 05:27 |
VanessaE |
(I'm done) |
| 05:27 |
RealBadAngel |
as usual |
| 05:27 |
hmmmm |
i think RBA is mad |
| 05:27 |
RealBadAngel |
we cant code because you dont care :P |
| 05:28 |
RealBadAngel |
yes im mad because im still trying to contribute |
| 05:28 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: can you point me to an issue that needs something from me instead of talking about philosophies |
| 05:28 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, yes, we need to implement lights |
| 05:29 |
celeron55 |
ok, what's the problem? |
| 05:29 |
RealBadAngel |
simplify servers one to light level |
| 05:29 |
RealBadAngel |
and add client side irrlicht real light sources |
| 05:29 |
|
nore joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:30 |
RealBadAngel |
problem is that a scene node can have 8 directional lights |
| 05:30 |
hmmmm |
heh, it's ironic. not meaning to be offensive, but i find that RBA often says more words than is necessary but he advocates coding the minimum that is necessary to get whatever the task is accomplished. |
| 05:30 |
RealBadAngel |
so propably we need a hybrid system |
| 05:31 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: i find that even frustrating |
| 05:31 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: so what is your solution to that? |
| 05:31 |
celeron55 |
8 directional lights per node is more than enough, but i'm guessing you can't change them per node when rendering |
| 05:31 |
celeron55 |
8 per mapblock isn't enough |
| 05:31 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmmm, celeron55 whats the point for pulling the big changes if even a few liners are blocked? |
| 05:32 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, its a limit per scene node |
| 05:32 |
hmmmm |
the solution isn't to make each mapnode a scene node. |
| 05:32 |
celeron55 |
pulling big changes gives a much higher benefit for the amount of work required from the puller |
| 05:32 |
hmmmm |
the solution is to dynamically generate a lightmap alongside the meshes and simply not use dynamic lights |
| 05:32 |
celeron55 |
i.e. i can do it as a one-off thing, but i can't do many small pulls every day |
| 05:33 |
RealBadAngel |
not when you need to constantly rebase the pulls |
| 05:33 |
RealBadAngel |
lately im forced to rebase vs my own code |
| 05:34 |
celeron55 |
assuming a clean implementation of this appears, i can handle the merging; what else do you expect? |
| 05:35 |
RealBadAngel |
nothing more |
| 05:35 |
celeron55 |
well, there are compatibility concerns but i am favourably biased now that i have had a computer for one year that can run anything you may come up with |
| 05:35 |
|
rickmcfarley joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:35 |
celeron55 |
so someone else has to push that concern if it still is a valid concern |
| 05:35 |
OldCoder |
VanessaE, I'll discuss the off-topic definition that Abe made of a Coder with you later |
| 05:35 |
VanessaE |
OldCoder: ok. |
| 05:39 |
|
alexxs joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:42 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, in a few days i will make a pull with meshes drawtype and converting nodeboexes into meshes |
| 05:43 |
RealBadAngel |
when im done with meshes i will add the lights |
| 05:44 |
RealBadAngel |
hope you will find time to review the changes |
| 05:46 |
celeron55 |
i hope they are sane enough to pass my review |
| 05:57 |
RealBadAngel |
i will try |
| 06:32 |
|
nore joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:37 |
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hintss joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:54 |
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| 07:06 |
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paramat left #minetest-dev |
| 07:10 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:12 |
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zat joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:18 |
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| 08:24 |
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PenguinDad joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:32 |
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| 08:45 |
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alexxs joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:02 |
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| 10:28 |
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| 10:31 |
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| 10:32 |
jin_xi |
hey nore can you help me understand camera_offset? i am trying to move particle handling more to irrlicht side but fail when more than 200 nodes away from origin |
| 10:42 |
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| 10:51 |
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alexxs joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:01 |
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chchjesus joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:06 |
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BlockMen joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:11 |
BlockMen |
would like to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1711 |
| 11:11 |
BlockMen |
comments? |
| 11:18 |
|
troller joined #minetest-dev |
| 11:27 |
Zeno` |
I am afraid to say |
| 11:27 |
Zeno` |
there is still no early exit |
| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
e.g. http://codepad.org/4GCX1fel |
| 11:31 |
Zeno` |
Which is what hmmmm was suggesting I think |
| 11:32 |
Krock |
BlockMen, you'll get a +1 from me |
| 11:33 |
BlockMen |
Zeno`, i wrote my opinion on that already |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
I couldn't see it |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
nvm |
| 11:34 |
nore |
jin_xi: everything is translated by camera_offset iirc |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
All I can see is "Also, please modify the flow of parseColorString to "bail out early" if not hexstring, rather than encasing almost the entire body of the function in an if statement's block." |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
Maybe I am blind |
| 11:35 |
nore |
BlockMen, I like that |
| 11:36 |
BlockMen |
Zeno`, its has to be done this way or the other way round for this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1711/files#diff-765e4fc5d8245871d9a5a4db834e4631R360 |
| 11:39 |
Zeno` |
That needs to be moved to line 318 then I guess |
| 11:40 |
Zeno` |
meh, not that I care much :) |
| 11:58 |
Zeno` |
Although, I'm not sure why you asked for feedback if you didn't want it |
| 11:59 |
|
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| 12:00 |
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Amaz joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:02 |
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PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:04 |
BlockMen |
Zeno`, since i said "want to merge" i was aiming mainly for core dev comments. |
| 12:05 |
BlockMen |
but since im already working on that function: https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/0c49d505c7f6d638a36f04423b6290fa2006591c |
| 12:06 |
BlockMen |
huos |
| 12:06 |
BlockMen |
*ups |
| 12:10 |
Zeno` |
not quite right but the idea is looking good |
| 12:10 |
Zeno` |
e.g keeping your current flow the switch should probably be contained within an if |
| 12:10 |
Zeno` |
i.e. only try a named colour if the hexpattern failed |
| 12:17 |
Zeno` |
personally I'd make two new functions |
| 12:21 |
|
CraigyDavi` joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:23 |
Zeno` |
Since when can you use string values in a switch anyway? |
| 12:26 |
BlockMen |
you cant, thats why i wrote ups :D |
| 12:27 |
Zeno` |
oh :) |
| 12:41 |
|
rickmcfarley joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:51 |
PilzAdam |
in Java you can use strings in switch |
| 13:02 |
Zeno` |
I've never been to Java |
| 13:07 |
* sfan5 |
meows at PilzAdam |
| 13:48 |
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rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:52 |
BlockMen |
updated https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1711 again. travis build passed |
| 13:52 |
BlockMen |
if noone claims anything im going to merge it in 30 minutes then |
| 13:53 |
sfan5 |
"if noone claims anything im going to merge it in 30 minutes then" |
| 13:53 |
sfan5 |
thats not how it works |
| 13:54 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:54 |
BlockMen |
nore agreed on it? |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
he did? then it's ok |
| 13:55 |
nore |
BlockMen, I agree on what it does, but I didn't test it, but the code looks fine |
| 13:55 |
nore |
(well, I didn't read it very precisely either) |
| 13:56 |
BlockMen |
hmm..maybe we should make write down that agree means "another dev has to write agree". then we prevent missunderstandings ;) |
| 13:57 |
nore |
so to be clear: I agree on what it does, the code looks fine, but I didn't test it |
| 13:57 |
BlockMen |
ok, then i change "will merge in 30 minutes" to "can someone check again and agree so i can merge?" |
| 13:58 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: see github comments |
| 14:01 |
Megaf |
Hi all, is this a bug? http://paste.debian.net/plain/124590 |
| 14:02 |
sfan5 |
no it's feature |
| 14:02 |
sfan5 |
why are you even asking |
| 14:02 |
sfan5 |
it's obviously a bug |
| 14:03 |
jin_xi |
aziz got quite the beating |
| 14:04 |
kahrl |
what thread is that even, its ID does not show up in the debug stacks report |
| 14:04 |
sfan5 |
probably the connectionthread |
| 14:04 |
Megaf |
I'm asking if I should open open an issue or not |
| 14:04 |
sfan5 |
it seems to be missing |
| 14:06 |
Zeno` |
why doesn't parseColorString() call two other functions: parseHexPattern() or parseNamedColor()? It would be more readable and also enable getting rid of the unnecessary goto |
| 14:06 |
kahrl |
does anyone else get the double free crashes etc that Megaf gets? |
| 14:06 |
Zeno` |
kahrl, I have once |
| 14:07 |
Zeno` |
haven't been able to reproduce it |
| 14:07 |
kahrl |
nonetheless at the rate Megaf gets them I would suggest doing a memtest on that machine |
| 14:07 |
Megaf |
several crashes that I have are hard to reproduce, sometime my server stays online for a week with no crashes |
| 14:08 |
Megaf |
kahrl: I think no one leave minetestserver running for as long as I do |
| 14:08 |
Zeno` |
the time it happened to me I was running valgrind, so perhaps it's time related... I don't know |
| 14:08 |
kahrl |
anyone that runs a public server probably does |
| 14:09 |
sfan5 |
83.165.141.1011/15 0/10.4.10, minetest, ?Cre Dmg PvP13.3d, 19.9d48, 100 |
| 14:09 |
sfan5 |
uptime 13.3d |
| 14:10 |
sfan5 |
too bad we can't ask that person |
| 14:11 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, everything changed |
| 14:12 |
|
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| 14:12 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: what about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1711#discussion_r18435335 ? |
| 14:13 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, blame github https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1711/files#diff-1305560bd8befb32862f0feeefabd02eR1239 |
| 14:13 |
sfan5 |
"ColorString:" doesn't really make sense because it looks like it's part of " Inventory location:" |
| 14:13 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 14:13 |
sfan5 |
what about removing the : |
| 14:13 |
BlockMen |
y? |
| 14:14 |
sfan5 |
because it's like that everywhere else |
| 14:14 |
Zeno` |
what about writing the code properly? If you're moving it why not fix it so that it's a bit more sane? |
| 14:14 |
BlockMen |
there is no clear system in doc |
| 14:14 |
|
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| 14:14 |
BlockMen |
or is? |
| 14:14 |
Zeno` |
(I don't agree with functions that try to do so many things for no benefit) |
| 14:15 |
Zeno` |
I know you didn't write the original code |
| 14:16 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: if you want to remove the : do that, if not you still have my approval |
| 14:17 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, k i will remove it. |
| 14:17 |
BlockMen |
also, two commits? one for [colorize and one for named colors? |
| 14:17 |
BlockMen |
or "all in one"? |
| 14:17 |
kahrl |
BlockMen: why are there only 5 named colors? what about yellow, cyan, magenta, ...? |
| 14:18 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: 2 commits is fine |
| 14:18 |
BlockMen |
kahrl, and where do you want stop? |
| 14:18 |
kahrl |
VGA palette or netscape palette |
| 14:18 |
kahrl |
the VGA palette is probably enough |
| 14:19 |
BlockMen |
wut? |
| 14:20 |
kahrl |
err, I mean the 16 color palette |
| 14:21 |
kahrl |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_8-bit_computer_hardware_palettes#CGA |
| 14:21 |
kahrl |
either that or use the colors from the wool mod |
| 14:22 |
kahrl |
I think the wool/dye mod colors would actually be best |
| 14:24 |
BlockMen |
then i prefer the 8 color palette |
| 14:24 |
Zeno` |
The whole function should really be as simple as: bool success; if (value[0] == '#') { success = parseHexColor(value, color); } else { success = parseNamedColor(value, color); } if (!success && !quiet) errorstream << "Invalid color: \"" << value << "\"" << std::endl; return success; |
| 14:24 |
BlockMen |
*more |
| 14:24 |
Zeno` |
No goto, no confusion, simple |
| 14:25 |
BlockMen |
ok. how about that. i will make another pull for the color name stuff |
| 14:25 |
BlockMen |
and just merge the [colorize part now |
| 14:25 |
BlockMen |
then its clean sepperated |
| 14:25 |
BlockMen |
and everyone can comment there what he thinks is best |
| 14:29 |
Megaf |
Why dont you make something useful? |
| 14:30 |
Megaf |
like track bugs now and optimze the code? |
| 14:30 |
Megaf |
common |
| 14:30 |
rubenwardy |
Easier said than done, really. Any open bug reports? |
| 14:30 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Abug |
| 14:31 |
Zeno` |
I really don't understand why minetest makes things harder than they should be :( |
| 14:32 |
Megaf |
This is a serious bug that happens on ALL platforms and you still have no clue on it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1512 |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
It's related to opening the "progress bar" |
| 14:33 |
Zeno` |
Beyond that I don't know because the code is confusing |
| 14:33 |
Zeno` |
It *may* even be an irrlicht bug... |
| 14:35 |
Megaf |
And this is also a interesting bug, "a player is lost" |
| 14:35 |
Megaf |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1649#issuecomment-56878162 |
| 14:39 |
BlockMen |
ok, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1711/ is now [colorize only |
| 14:41 |
BlockMen |
can i merge that now? |
| 14:41 |
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| 14:41 |
* Megaf |
gives thumbs down |
| 14:42 |
kahrl |
BlockMen: include irrlichttyped_bloated instead of _extrabloated |
| 14:42 |
kahrl |
-d +s |
| 14:44 |
kahrl |
https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/c8f2832fddb858ffcdeceda90525815640e60e8a#diff-d5a2988ef5cf71bce4a479a2e1b49426R1611 is indented too much |
| 14:44 |
Zeno` |
I'd prefer it to be: bool success; if (value[0] == '#') { success = parseHexColor(value, color); } else { success = false; } if (!success && !quiet) errorstream << "Invalid color: \"" << value << "\"" << std::endl; return success; |
| 14:45 |
Zeno` |
Why the aversion to functions? |
| 14:46 |
kahrl |
I agree with Zeno` |
| 14:46 |
kahrl |
although I'd initialize success = false and remove the else |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
either way |
| 14:47 |
BlockMen |
i will do that in the next pull for the color names |
| 14:47 |
BlockMen |
(zenos functions) |
| 14:48 |
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| 14:49 |
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| 14:50 |
BlockMen |
kahrl, both comments of you fixed. can i merge? |
| 14:51 |
kahrl |
BlockMen: go ahead |
| 14:52 |
kahrl |
Megaf: if #1512 is so important to you, you might have more luck getting it fixed if you help (e.g. bisecting) |
| 14:58 |
kahrl |
it seems you have more luck reproducing that bug than I so it would be great if you did the bisecting |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:15 |
BlockMen |
pull for named colors https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1720 |
| 15:16 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: use unified dyed palette for names ;) |
| 15:17 |
BlockMen |
VanessaE, lel |
| 15:17 |
BlockMen |
good joke ;D |
| 15:17 |
VanessaE |
that'll cover everyone's use cases :P |
| 15:18 |
VanessaE |
actually, it's only 12 hues anyways plus light/dark/etc |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:32 |
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| 15:36 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, did you create this branch? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/unknown_node_tex |
| 15:39 |
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| 15:45 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: yes, accidentally |
| 15:45 |
sfan5 |
feel free to remove it |
| 15:45 |
VanessaE |
awww |
| 15:46 |
VanessaE |
I like that "sick mac" texture :) |
| 15:46 |
VanessaE |
seems like a shame to discard it. can't it be used for something? |
| 15:47 |
BlockMen |
VanessaE, if we would have bedrock it could be used |
| 15:48 |
BlockMen |
or add an easteregg |
| 15:48 |
VanessaE |
well we DO need some kind of bedrock actually |
| 15:49 |
VanessaE |
but I don't see how that image would be associated with that |
| 15:49 |
VanessaE |
as an easter egg, however, definitely |
| 15:49 |
VanessaE |
bedrock has to be done by the core mapgen though, not by Lua. too slow otherwise |
| 15:50 |
* nore |
likes the easter egg idea |
| 15:51 |
VanessaE |
just put a few layers of it down at -30924-7, with a slight "landscape" to it (i.e. not perfectly flat), add a couple of .conf settings to control what Y coords it is generated at |
| 15:51 |
VanessaE |
simple enough |
| 15:51 |
VanessaE |
use ShadowNinja's bedrock node name and textures |
| 15:51 |
nore |
<VanessaE> bedrock has to be done by the core mapgen though, not by Lua. too slow otherwise <-- even with voxel manip? |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
nore: I'm pretty sure, yeah. |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
paramat would know better than me, but it's surely faster to write precisely the nodes that need written directly in the engine, than to do a vmanip fetch, fill the nodes in Lua, and write it out |
| 15:53 |
nore |
I'm almost sure you can get below 0.1s/chunck |
| 15:53 |
nore |
of course, it would be faster in C++ |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
I would think core could do it in a tench of the time, and when it comes to mapgen, it needs to be as fast as possible |
| 15:53 |
nore |
but 0.1s/chunck seems already low enough |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
this is a case where specializing is absolutely recommended. |
| 15:54 |
Zeno` |
60ms (on my machine) just to get the vmanip data |
| 15:54 |
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| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
you could always configure it in the map_meta.txt or minetest.conf or something, and alias the mapgen'd nodes like usual, if you wanted it to be something different than bedrock at the bottom of the world |
| 15:54 |
nore |
well, it would be under 60ms to modify it |
| 15:55 |
nore |
and perhaps another 60 to write |
| 15:55 |
nore |
that would make less that 0.2s total |
| 15:55 |
BlockMen |
hmm..i dont thing it would be that slow with VM |
| 15:55 |
BlockMen |
i can cenerate jungle in 139 ms |
| 15:55 |
BlockMen |
then bedrock should be done much faster |
| 15:55 |
VanessaE |
that's already well over 0.1s per chunk. How much time to write 2*6400 nodes? |
| 15:55 |
Zeno` |
In C or C++ I could generate the entire chunk in that time. Sure, 60ms doesn't sound a lot but when you have a server with, maybe, 15 players all triggering mapgen it does make a difference |
| 15:56 |
hmmmm |
that's a misunderstanding of how the mapgen works. |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm, really? |
| 15:57 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, done |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
the first player to have that block within their view is the one that starts the generation (or at least queues it) |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
the players are all over the place though |
| 15:57 |
hmmmm |
I don't see how a bedrock mod would be "intensive" |
| 15:58 |
hmmmm |
you just check the coordinates, if it's a chunk that's on the edge, start generating bedrock |
| 16:00 |
VanessaE |
that's fine for getting the generator going, but that doesn't speak for how long it takes to populate the chunk |
| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
it'll certainly be faster than the stuff I usually do of course, since you don't have to check the land for anything, just blindly overwrite it |
| 16:01 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: close the pull request too then |
| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
but speed is *critical* here |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
this is core mapgen we're talking about |
| 16:01 |
BlockMen |
its closed 3 days already |
| 16:01 |
hmmmm |
critical at the nether boundaries of the map...? |
| 16:01 |
BlockMen |
*or something like that |
| 16:02 |
hmmmm |
how much time are people going to spend there for real |
| 16:02 |
hmmmm |
bedrock is mod material. |
| 16:02 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: mapgen speed is always critical, and I've had plenty of players go to the boundaries of my maps in the past. |
| 16:02 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: that's fine if it's in a mod. |
| 16:02 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: but as soon as someone proposes putting it into minetest as a default component, it becomes engine material |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:03 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: remember, one player milling about in new terrain affects *everyone*. |
| 16:05 |
BlockMen |
i dont see any reason to add bedrock to minetest |
| 16:05 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: for completeness. |
| 16:06 |
VanessaE |
if it's not bedrock then something else |
| 16:06 |
VanessaE |
there should not be an empty void at the bottom of the world. |
| 16:06 |
VanessaE |
put unbreakable nyan cats there if you want. |
| 16:06 |
Zeno` |
that's right! There should be turtles |
| 16:06 |
VanessaE |
or unbreakable bright green cobble. it doesn't matter |
| 16:06 |
VanessaE |
whatever it is, it should NOT be an empty void. |
| 16:06 |
BlockMen |
it should be obvious that there comes not more at a deep like -31000 |
| 16:07 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: so you think a player standing on an empty void looks good? |
| 16:07 |
VanessaE |
to the player, it looks like the map is refusing to load. |
| 16:07 |
kilbith |
it's currently better to focus on the snow biomes than bedrock, imho |
| 16:07 |
VanessaE |
to the player, it looks like a bug. |
| 16:07 |
BlockMen |
VanessaE, do you really think a player standing there says: damn, that is shit. i will stip playing mt now |
| 16:07 |
Zeno` |
the player expects turtles |
| 16:08 |
Zeno` |
BlockMen, actually they do |
| 16:08 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: actually yes, I have had players say almost that ues |
| 16:08 |
BlockMen |
lel |
| 16:08 |
VanessaE |
yes* |
| 16:08 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: players see that shit and think "wtf? there's no bottom?" |
| 16:08 |
VanessaE |
they don't quit playing, but they get a negative impression of an unpolished game |
| 16:09 |
Krock |
updated #1715 |
| 16:09 |
rubenwardy |
I agree with adding bedrock, or similar. Maybe a massive lava ocean? |
| 16:09 |
BlockMen |
and what will they do at the egde of surface? |
| 16:09 |
BlockMen |
do you want there also a wall? |
| 16:09 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: that's a totally different matter |
| 16:10 |
VanessaE |
the player isn't ***standing*** there |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
BlockMen: actually a short (<50 nodes tall) wall made of stone wouldn't be out of the question. It would look like a natural formation |
| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
but that's a totally different matter than the bottom of the world, where the player can actually *walk on the void* |
| 16:12 |
VanessaE |
MC has its farlands for the X/Z limits, which may as well be the same as those short walls |
| 16:12 |
BlockMen |
VanessaE, i dont see any problem here |
| 16:12 |
VanessaE |
(difference there is, aside from caves being generated in them, is the world is extremely glitchy past those points) |
| 16:12 |
BlockMen |
if you look down its gray |
| 16:13 |
BlockMen |
that enough for the bottom of world |
| 16:14 |
hmmmm |
i can't understand how you people could get so uptight about what happens at the world's boundaries when there are so many more pressing issues to deal with |
| 16:14 |
hmmmm |
what the hell is it with the boundary that fascinates players so much |
| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: polish. |
| 16:15 |
hmmmm |
if you want to bitch about it that much, you can do it yourself too |
| 16:15 |
hmmmm |
yechk |
| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: same reason we get upset over the "pressing" issues when people then suddenly go off and start fiddling with stuff no one wants all that much at the moment. |
| 16:15 |
hmmmm |
it's NOT my priority and will NOT be ever. |
| 16:16 |
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| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: no offense, but that ^^^^ that is why. |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
particularly the "not be ever" part. |
| 16:16 |
hmmmm |
then do it yourself |
| 16:17 |
* VanessaE |
sighs |
| 16:17 |
* VanessaE |
throws the polish in the trash |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
this stuff clearly isn't needed here. |
| 16:18 |
hmmmm |
i don't get it |
| 16:18 |
hmmmm |
you bitch and moan but you'll never do a lick of actual work |
| 16:18 |
hmmmm |
that is so annoying |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
wat |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
O_o |
| 16:18 |
hmmmm |
what's so hard about making a bedrock mod |
| 16:18 |
Zeno` |
Hang on, that's not fair or correct at all |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
you clearly don't play, hmmmm. one already exists. |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
G*d damn it man. |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
MODS ARE TOO SLOW FOR THIS. |
| 16:19 |
hmmmm |
why can't you just make it, have people use it, and then if it gets really popular and there are demands to move it into the default game, then just do that... |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
what part of that is so hard to understand? |
| 16:19 |
hmmmm |
no, they are not. |
| 16:19 |
hmmmm |
mods are just as slow as plantlife. |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
you haven't tried the latest plantlife either then |
| 16:20 |
VanessaE |
170ms max latency is slow? |
| 16:20 |
hmmmm |
this conversation is a giant waste of time |
| 16:20 |
hmmmm |
i'm going to go do something productive |
| 16:20 |
hmmmm |
less talk, more code |
| 16:21 |
Zeno` |
Has minetest reached version 1.0 yet? |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
ok, let's take a look at something here: https://github.com/VanessaE |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
you see that little chart there at the bottom below the repositories list? |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
don't you DARE sit there and tell me I've been doing nothing. |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
that just pisses me off. |
| 16:21 |
Zeno` |
If not then the people writing the mods, running the servers and the players are your beta testers. You should, really, pay attention. |
| 16:24 |
Krock |
Zeno`, it reached version (0410 / 1000) |
| 16:25 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: I mean for the core game |
| 16:25 |
Zeno` |
In that case then everybody is a beta tester and their suggestions and observations should not be so easily ignored |
| 16:25 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: If you think bedrock is needed in the base game, why the hell not add it |
| 16:25 |
hmmmm |
I've offered you commit privs multiple times and you refused every time |
| 16:26 |
hmmmm |
so if something pisses you off, and you have a general consensus of approval, you can just fix it yourself rather than BITCH nonstop in the channel |
| 16:26 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: I bitch because it's all I can do to try to get shit to happen around here. I don't understand enough C++, let alone enough of the engine's codebase, to do much more than read through the pulls from time to time trying to learn it. And that's after learning C in college and programming in at least a couple of C-like languages since then. |
| 16:26 |
VanessaE |
and because I don't understand and can't seem to wrap my head around it, that's why I refuse commit privs. |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
you've been involved with minetest longer than i have. "lack of familiarity" is a horrible excuse... it's because you don't even try to learn C++ or the engine |
| 16:27 |
VanessaE |
I DO try. |
| 16:27 |
VanessaE |
and I fail every damn time I try to read the code. |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
if you have a question about the code, why not ask here? |
| 16:27 |
VanessaE |
so like you, I go off and do more productive things. |
| 16:27 |
Calinou |
<VanessaE> MODS ARE TOO SLOW FOR THIS. |
| 16:27 |
Calinou |
my bedrock mod uses C++ ore gen |
| 16:27 |
Calinou |
should be very fast |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
has deepstone too, good balance. |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
and doesn't generate too shallow |
| 16:28 |
Zeno` |
Seriously, hang on. Stop with the ad hominem stuff :( It makes me cry |
| 16:28 |
hmmmm |
Calinou, what ore type do you use |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9231 |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
look |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
I think it's scatter |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
but I would like to have a method to generate flat surfaces too |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
this one replaces stone by bedrock in a large area, which is enough for nearly 100 % of cases, you won't ever load the bottom of the world |
| 16:29 |
Calinou |
loading the bottom of the world has bad consequences with mob mods and such, so it should be avoided |
| 16:29 |
Calinou |
(mobs will duplicate if they fall in void) |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
you can do that |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
check out ore sheet type |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
make the scale of the perlin noise like 1 or something, and then make the offset like 2 |
| 16:30 |
hmmmm |
if you want it to be 100% straight and flat, make the perlin noise scale 0 |
| 16:30 |
Zeno` |
it's simplex noise |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
here I don't want it to be straight and flat, would be ugly |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
I replace stone with bedrock, not all blocks |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
(but an ore type that could replace all blocks at once would be useful!) |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
hmmm |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
ugh |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
while i'm mucking around with the ore, why not |
| 16:32 |
hmmmm |
i just never had demand for ore that replaces any nodes |
| 16:32 |
hmmmm |
why do you let the caves cut through your bedrock? |
| 16:32 |
hmmmm |
set is_ground_content = false |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
my ore gen only replaces stone |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
it's intended, I don't want fully flat bedrock – boring, ugly, unnatural |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
so caves go through bedrock, gravel and dirt generates in them occasionally, but all caves eventually end |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
no cave is more than ~200 blocks deep |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
so you don't ever reach bottom of world |
| 16:33 |
* Calinou |
knows most people will have trouble understanding :( |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
no, caves can definitely hit the bottom |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
-31000 is the generation cutoff, and 80 is the chunk size |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
so if you have whatever - 80 <= -31000, it'll cut off generating that chunk |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
if i recall, the central chunk at the origin is offset in the negative axis by 2 mapblocks |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
so that means it's -[(387 - 1) * 80 + 32] |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
= -30912 when the apparent map should cut off |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
<hmmmm> no, caves can definitely hit the bottom |
| 16:38 |
Calinou |
install bedrock mod, try to find cave which goes from above-bedrock to void |
| 16:38 |
Calinou |
probably will take hours, by doing it intentionally |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
just because it's uncommon doesn't mean it won't happen. |
| 16:38 |
Calinou |
yeah, I know, “IPv4 is probably enough†:P |
| 16:39 |
hmmmm |
in any case, I'll agree that the boundary of the world must be better defined |
| 16:39 |
Calinou |
we could extend world size by increasing mapgen limit |
| 16:39 |
hmmmm |
2^15 - 31000 = 32768 - 31000 = 1768 of buffer zone |
| 16:39 |
Calinou |
it crashes if you go too close to 32768, but you can still add some blocks? |
| 16:40 |
Calinou |
like, ~31500 |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
things wouldn't crash |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
but they'd definitely screw up |
| 16:41 |
hmmmm |
like it'd insert a duplicate (x, z) for a completely different MapSector |
| 16:41 |
hmmmm |
and again, that's only if we remove the safety checks that are already there |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
what I'm proposing is that 31000 and -31000 are the actual boundaries, i.e. that's where map stops generating |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
or maybe i guess we could bump it to +-32000 |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
so if you have a chunk starting at 31980, for example (i know it's not a valid chunk start coordinate), it'll generate map for 31980 to 32059 |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
and then on blit back, it'll cut off anything after 32000 |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
so in effect only 20 nodes will be written |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
that's 16 in the first mapblock of the chunk, and 4 in the next mapblock, followed by the rest as content ignore |
| 16:54 |
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| 17:20 |
Krock |
Who of the devs can give me thumbs up for #1715 ? |
| 17:29 |
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ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: My bedrock mod's very fast and short-circuits if it isn't generating a chunk with bedrock. Bedrock definitely doesn't need any extra core support. It's generation is very simple so almost all of the time will be spent reading and writing the data. |
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jin_xi |
so i have updated particles pull, if you tried it before its working better now |
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