| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:16 |
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| 00:19 |
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| 00:20 |
wilkgr |
I'm having a problem with the forums - I can't upload my map! |
| 00:20 |
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| 00:20 |
wilkgr |
It's 3 MiB, and whenever I hit the "add file" button, I get ERR_CONNECTION_ABORTED |
| 00:22 |
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| 00:30 |
wilkgr |
Any ideas? |
| 00:34 |
wilkgr |
Oh well, uploading to mediafire then... |
| 00:42 |
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| 03:22 |
arsdragonfly |
√ |
| 03:22 |
arsdragonfly |
!server arsdragonfly |
| 03:22 |
MinetestBot |
arsdragonfly: Arsdragonfly's Landrush! Minetest server | arsenalmp.noip.me:30001 | Clients: 0/15, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.13-dev / minetest | Ping: 313ms |
| 03:29 |
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| 04:58 |
waressearcher2 |
!g Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile |
| 04:58 |
MinetestBot |
waressearcher2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_longa,_vita_brevis |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:57 |
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| 06:13 |
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| 06:24 |
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| 06:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Lower log level for benign socket errors 4236792 http://git.io/vCVr6 (2015-10-14T02:22:04-04:00) |
| 06:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Use warningstream for log messages with WARNING 96cc5b3 http://git.io/vCVri (2015-10-14T01:36:48-04:00) |
| 06:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Refactor logging 2139d7d http://git.io/vCVrP (2015-10-14T01:03:54-04:00) |
| 06:34 |
MinetestBot |
[git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Always use errorstream for DEBUG_EXCEPTION_HANDLER 6f4d6cb http://git.io/vCVoz (2015-10-14T02:33:30-04:00) |
| 06:41 |
MinetestBot |
[git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Rename macros with two leading underscores 6f2d785 http://git.io/vCVKS (2015-10-14T02:39:37-04:00) |
| 06:59 |
TheWild |
yeah, still fixing "something". Last 14 commits were likely not to be noticed by general player. The last one I consider noticeable was "Add viewing range GUI setting". Yet there is no gamma setting but... yeah... who cares? |
| 06:59 |
TheWild |
it makes me feel like Minetest started from chaos |
| 06:59 |
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| 07:01 |
Xeprione |
hello |
| 07:01 |
TheWild |
hello Xeprione |
| 07:03 |
Xeprione |
TheWild: you know what i like the most in the morning? |
| 07:03 |
TheWild |
ummm? |
| 07:04 |
Xeprione |
a hot Latte with a bar of Kex |
| 07:05 |
Xeprione |
and by Kex, i mean Kexchoklad |
| 07:05 |
Xeprione |
The only chocolate I can buy at any cost without feeling bad afterwards |
| 07:05 |
TheWild |
Bon Appetit |
| 07:05 |
Xeprione |
got to go, lesson starting |
| 07:08 |
TheWild |
I do not mean that fixing little bugs or improving little stuff is bad. I mean that it takes quite long time to fix e.g. annoying flaws in the API which should never happen or add a feature that should be here from start. |
| 07:09 |
waressearcher2 |
TheWild: how much hours per day you are spending playing minetest ? |
| 07:10 |
TheWild |
not playing for quite long; spend few hours on monday, messing with technic |
| 07:10 |
TheWild |
s/spend/spent |
| 07:13 |
waressearcher2 |
why |
| 07:15 |
TheWild |
I had fun with Minetest when I found that it has modding API. Yeah, that was great. No longer rage when there is a block missing - just program it. |
| 07:16 |
TheWild |
Until I found that the Minetest API has weird limits, bugs and other oddities. |
| 07:20 |
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| 07:24 |
TheWild |
for example: player:get_look_yaw() — yaw in radians (wraps around pretty randomly as of now) - documentation says. I got with this problem once and created an issue. It was quickly marked as a duplicate. |
| 07:24 |
TheWild |
so, we ended here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2658 |
| 07:25 |
TheWild |
nobody cared about fixing it, so I tried to find it on my own. Not tested, since "nothing written in C++ compiles on my machine", but the 90. put here quite arbitrarily seems to be the cause of the problem. |
| 07:26 |
TheWild |
"Why 90. is here? Who made this crap?" - I thought. Then I found that... it was here when Minetest started! |
| 07:28 |
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| 07:31 |
TheWild |
Now is 0.4.13 and when we fix it, we get into compatibility problems with older mods. Uh... no problem, modders will update their mods. Or maybe not. So what's the solution? Maybe put a Minetest version number somewhere in the mod which it is compatible with, and let's Minetest resolve whether it should run the function its proper way or buggy. |
| 07:34 |
est31 |
Mozilla/5.0 |
| 07:34 |
est31 |
we end up with hacks like this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5125438 |
| 07:35 |
nrzkt2 |
Mods should update with engine, if a program is not maintained it should not be our problem |
| 07:38 |
TheWild |
Thanks est31. What we see, the idea of "versioning"... maybe works... but is not nice for future development. |
| 07:40 |
nrzkt2 |
it's nice for engine enhancement for all. Modders should evolve, like core. |
| 07:41 |
TheWild |
sofar proposed to do it forward compatible way, that is mark get_look_yaw and set_look_yaw obsolete and use other names for fixed functions |
| 07:41 |
TheWild |
IMHO good idea, but 1. it will be fixed and 2. maybe we fix the mess like getpos (no underscores) and get_loo_yaw (has underscores) too. |
| 07:42 |
TheWild |
s/but/because |
| 07:43 |
est31 |
underscores should be preffered |
| 07:43 |
est31 |
sofar's idea is the best here |
| 07:47 |
TheWild |
is this legal to define my own functions in minetest table? |
| 07:47 |
est31 |
its not nice |
| 07:48 |
est31 |
but sometimes people do it |
| 07:48 |
est31 |
in order to extend funcitonality |
| 07:49 |
TheWild |
I mean: we could fix the #2658 by some mod, by checking that fixed version of function is defined in minetest, and if not, implement it though Lua |
| 07:49 |
TheWild |
s/though/through |
| 07:49 |
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| 07:50 |
TheWild |
but it's another poor dependendy in other mods |
| 07:50 |
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| 07:56 |
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| 07:57 |
thePalindrome |
Is this the channel for modding? The wiki says #minetest-mods, but the topic for that says to come here |
| 07:59 |
est31 |
thePalindrome, most of discussion happens here |
| 08:01 |
thePalindrome |
Ah, alright then. As such, I'd like to ask for a better definition of "Game" and "Mod." Is a Game a "super Mod?" |
| 08:01 |
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| 08:02 |
est31 |
a game can't do much more than a mod can |
| 08:02 |
est31 |
so partly yes |
| 08:02 |
est31 |
but a game is more a "super modpack" than a "super mod", because its rather a choice of mods than a mod for its own |
| 08:03 |
thePalindrome |
Ah, so a Game is a ModPack with a custom Mod as "glue?" |
| 08:03 |
kaeza |
thePalindrome, basically, a game is kind of like a pre-made collection of mods that provides a somewhat complete (for various definitions of the word) gameplay |
| 08:04 |
kaeza |
+experience |
| 08:04 |
kaeza |
by contrast, a modpack is an extension to games. i.e. not really playable as is |
| 08:04 |
thePalindrome |
Ah, I see |
| 08:05 |
thePalindrome |
So "Planes," "Trains," and "Automobiles" go in the "Transport" ModPack, but that gets put into the "Modern World" Game? |
| 08:06 |
kaeza |
that's a good analogy, yes |
| 08:07 |
thePalindrome |
Or, in other words, a Game is a ModPackPack? :P |
| 08:07 |
waressearcher2 |
http://abstrusegoose.com/249 |
| 08:08 |
kaeza |
thePalindrome, yep (except that modpacks *can* contain other sub-modpacks, which may contain other sub-modpacks, which ...) |
| 08:09 |
kaeza |
xzibit would be proud |
| 08:09 |
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| 08:09 |
kaeza |
waressearcher2, ha |
| 08:09 |
thePalindrome |
Alright, I think your definitions make sense |
| 08:11 |
thePalindrome |
(Former) Minecraft modder, got sick of the "API" changing, and gave up at 1.8 |
| 08:11 |
thePalindrome |
Really wanted to put together a Game for Minetest for a couple reasons |
| 08:12 |
waressearcher2 |
kaeza: why you said "xzibit would be proud" ? you mean that rap singer ? |
| 08:14 |
est31 |
thePalindrome, which page exactly points to #minetest-mods ? |
| 08:14 |
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| 08:15 |
thePalindrome |
dev.minetest.net/IRC |
| 08:18 |
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| 08:18 |
TheWild |
thePalindrome, just because of curiosity. At least few years ago, writing a mod required decompilation of MC, and mods were "installed" this crappy hackish way into MC files. Since then, did MC got some sensible API? |
| 08:20 |
thePalindrome |
No, there's a project called "Minecraft Forge" that makes an actual API |
| 08:20 |
thePalindrome |
Forge has to be patched in, but forge can load anything else from an actual mods folder |
| 08:20 |
thePalindrome |
Configuration and even activation is all handled by Forge |
| 08:24 |
TheWild |
nice, though still odd feeling as MC requires third party software to be moddable. It even reached higher level - it requires another third party software (Optifine) to not lag that much, like original programmers couldn't optimize this. |
| 08:25 |
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| 08:25 |
thePalindrome |
Not only that, but all the original team have left |
| 08:26 |
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| 08:27 |
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| 08:29 |
Telesight |
Hello all, What protocol and port is used for a server_announce to the server list? |
| 08:31 |
est31 |
HTTP |
| 08:31 |
est31 |
POST |
| 08:32 |
est31 |
but it is sent "as client" |
| 08:32 |
est31 |
to the master server |
| 08:32 |
est31 |
then the master server checks whether your server is reachable at the claimed address |
| 08:32 |
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| 08:32 |
est31 |
if not, it doesn't appear |
| 08:32 |
est31 |
on the list |
| 08:33 |
JamesTait |
Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy World Maths Day! 😃 |
| 08:41 |
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| 08:50 |
thePalindrome |
Anyhow, in terms of flexibility, how would you rate MT's API? |
| 08:53 |
TheWild |
it's "flexible to some extent". When Minetest reached version 0.4 and the modding API started, it was brilliant idea but the implementation is quite messed up. Many basic features are just not here. |
| 08:55 |
thePalindrome |
Like what? |
| 08:57 |
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| 08:58 |
TheWild |
Like: tell me what is the thing the player is pointing at. Nope - no such method in API. You will only know when player puches/rightclicks a node or object. |
| 08:58 |
TheWild |
but Minetest itself knows what is pointed, because the frame is drawn and in debug strings (F5), the node name is displayed |
| 08:59 |
TheWild |
so that just core devs solved it, but didn't provide it to the API. |
| 08:59 |
TheWild |
I thought once about player:get_pointed_thing() |
| 09:00 |
thePalindrome |
Huh, are the core devs fairly receptive to api requests/patches? |
| 09:01 |
TheWild |
sometimes |
| 09:05 |
thePalindrome |
Hmmm, oh well |
| 09:05 |
thePalindrome |
I suppose I can at least try modding it |
| 09:06 |
TheWild |
player:get_pointed_thing() could solve the problem, but is "flexible to some extent" |
| 09:08 |
TheWild |
this is because e.g. I get "default:glass". What's the position then? Ok, then {name="default:glass", pos={x=1,y=2,z=3}}. Well, I don't care about glass, tell me what's behind... |
| 09:08 |
TheWild |
and the other is maybe we don't want the line of sight coming from player, but a some arbitrary point |
| 09:09 |
waressearcher2 |
TheWild: "tell me what is the thing the player is pointing at", can you somehow "emulate" punching of a node and then read "what is the thing the player is punching" ? |
| 09:10 |
thePalindrome |
Ah, so basic more along the lines of "So basic you'd have to be a loon to even think that people need to know that?" :P |
| 09:10 |
TheWild |
waressearcher2, I'm not sure it is possible. I can simulate puching a node when I know node position, I think. |
| 09:11 |
TheWild |
bringing a function as an iterator could solve the most: for info in minetest.line_of_sight(pos, dir, get_nodes, get_objects) |
| 09:11 |
TheWild |
or pos1, pos2 |
| 09:13 |
TheWild |
yeah, there is a player:get_look_dir(), fortunately works properly so it could be solvable in Lua |
| 09:16 |
TheWild |
I already did some progress by resolving the nodeboxes and objects bounding boxes, and the important term in table returned by the iterator is t, that is: if point is at pos, then t = 0; if point is at pos+dir, then t = 1; if point is exactly in the middle, then t = 0.5. t is given in such way that it is easy to calculate exact coordinates of the crossing point within the nodebox |
| 09:17 |
TheWild |
Usage: you have computer with 4 buttons in single node, and when player clicks the node, it is possible to distinguish which button was pressed |
| 09:18 |
thePalindrome |
Ah |
| 09:22 |
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| 09:22 |
TheWild |
a trivial example how I like to see this API: we have table.sort (lua builtin). This function accepts simple tables of strings or numbers and sorts them in ascending order. |
| 09:22 |
TheWild |
Boo - I would say - this function can't sort tables of tables! |
| 09:24 |
TheWild |
It can, there is table.sort(tab, callback(a,b)); your callback returns true when a should be before b, otherwise false. |
| 09:24 |
TheWild |
Is there a list that cannot be sorted by table.sort? |
| 09:25 |
TheWild |
Nope. Can I complain about anything? Nope. The function is complete. |
| 09:31 |
TheWild |
I told few days ago: By now, we have grasslike, plantlike, torchlike... Mesh solves the most, but we would like to change the model appearance in different conditions. So... define more node types. |
| 09:31 |
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| 09:32 |
TheWild |
this way LuaController has 4 pins and 16 types of nodes defines. If it would have 8 pins, it would have 256 types of nodes. |
| 09:35 |
TheWild |
The node should be allowed to obtain its conditions (e.g. neighbors) and render itsef. |
| 09:36 |
TheWild |
By now it is only idea. It would require client-side scripting and not sure about technical limitations (e.g. Irrlicht is unable to do something). |
| 09:36 |
TheWild |
and unsure performance of Lua |
| 09:45 |
TheWild |
AFAIR, some crappy Chip's Challenge clone, Puzzle Studio, also used Lua as scripting language and it solved the problem of drawing tiles by giving GL context to Lua scripts. |
| 09:51 |
thePalindrome |
Welp, time to go wake up in two hours |
| 09:51 |
thePalindrome |
I'll talk to y'all before too long, eh? |
| 09:52 |
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| 10:56 |
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| 11:11 |
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| 11:14 |
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| 11:15 |
Leoneof |
hey |
| 11:34 |
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| 12:00 |
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| 12:03 |
Leoneof |
how's minetest nowadays? haven't used it long time |
| 12:03 |
Leoneof |
:) |
| 12:03 |
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| 12:04 |
Calinou |
it hasn't changed much really |
| 12:04 |
Calinou |
but it has a minimap now |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:30 |
TheWild |
are there plans for bringing other dimensions to the Minetest? |
| 12:32 |
TheWild |
I do not mean anything specific, just to give modder a possibility to teleport player between dimensions. |
| 12:35 |
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| 13:33 |
swift110-phone |
Minetest is awesome |
| 13:35 |
waressearcher2 |
swift110-phone: how much hours per day you spending in minetest ? |
| 13:37 |
swift110-phone |
Not everyday |
| 13:37 |
swift110-phone |
But when i do i really like it |
| 13:37 |
rubenwardy |
http://gu.com/p/4da38/ :'( |
| 13:38 |
rubenwardy |
!title |
| 13:38 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Stephen Fry to step down as presenter of BBC's QI | Media | The Guardian |
| 13:39 |
waressearcher2 |
!g QI |
| 13:39 |
MinetestBot |
waressearcher2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi |
| 13:41 |
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| 13:41 |
rubenwardy |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QI |
| 13:42 |
rubenwardy |
Doesn't matter if you've seen the sources, as long as you don't copy parts |
| 13:42 |
rubenwardy |
as for algorithms, can they be copyrights? |
| 13:43 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think they can |
| 13:43 |
rubenwardy |
waressearcher2, |
| 13:43 |
rubenwardy |
VanessaE |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
algoithms, sadly, can be patented |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
but not copyrighted. |
| 13:45 |
VanessaE |
the clean-room theory stems from the idea that, in the case of proprietary software, you can't easily prove that the code you wrote isn't a direct copy of the original code (either from sources or disassembly) |
| 13:45 |
VanessaE |
plus he wants to change the license. |
| 13:45 |
waressearcher2 |
I'm asking with no specific reason |
| 13:46 |
VanessaE |
given the size of minetest's codebase and the fact that it's C++, pretty sure some of that code will work in a regular C context also |
| 13:46 |
est31 |
Oracle got in serious trouble for java |
| 13:46 |
est31 |
ermm |
| 13:46 |
est31 |
google |
| 13:46 |
est31 |
and it was only the API |
| 13:46 |
est31 |
everything else was replaced |
| 13:46 |
waressearcher2 |
you mean dalvik's code ? |
| 13:47 |
est31 |
yea, or whatever its called now |
| 13:50 |
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| 14:03 |
waressearcher2 |
!g dalek |
| 14:03 |
MinetestBot |
waressearcher2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek |
| 14:21 |
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Darcidride |
hi, if i changed the "EnvArgs" in the meta_env.txt, is the world will be erased or corrupted ? |
| 15:07 |
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| 15:26 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Good morning! |
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| 16:23 |
nyje |
#debian |
| 16:24 |
Teckla |
nyje: Here, have a /join to go with that #debian ;) |
| 16:25 |
nyje |
hehehe slip of the shortcut ;-) |
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| 16:32 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Is Minetest compatible with Wayland? |
| 16:32 |
rubenwardy |
!g minetest wayland |
| 16:32 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2014-09-10 |
| 16:32 |
rubenwardy |
there was a topic about this |
| 16:33 |
rubenwardy |
!g minetest wayland site:forum.minetest.net |
| 16:33 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: No results found for 'minetest wayland site:forum.minetest.net'. |
| 16:33 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Oh, well I'll look at the link you found already. |
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Leoneof |
is minetest compatible with dosbox? :] |
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Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, the official Minetest channel | Latest version: 0.4.13 (2015-08-20) | Responses may take a while, so be patient. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ |
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Calinou |
I always disable menu bar in terminal, waste of space IMO |
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Calinou |
Herobrine is now 16. |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
see Birthdays section of forum |
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hmmmm |
ooh boy |
| 19:58 |
hmmmm |
16 is old enough to be legal ;) i'm gonna go internet creep on her |
| 19:58 |
hmmmm |
why do people announce their age on IRC? |
| 20:11 |
swift110 |
lol |
| 20:12 |
swift110 |
that is stupid |
| 20:12 |
swift110 |
hmmm because in general people have access to things that they ignorantly don't take the time to understand |
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| 20:15 |
hmmmm |
'hey babe a/s/l? u wanna cyber w/ me?' |
| 20:15 |
CWz |
I see that happening everyday on many servers |
| 20:16 |
CWz |
I shall now vanish into the fog of fogginess. |
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me_ |
@testingbot do you hear me? |
| 20:26 |
bobomb |
is luaJIT part of the default build currently? |
| 20:28 |
hmmmm |
no |
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