Time Nick Message 00:20 wilkgr I'm having a problem with the forums - I can't upload my map! 00:20 wilkgr It's 3 MiB, and whenever I hit the "add file" button, I get ERR_CONNECTION_ABORTED 00:30 wilkgr Any ideas? 00:34 wilkgr Oh well, uploading to mediafire then... 03:22 arsdragonfly √ 03:22 arsdragonfly !server arsdragonfly 03:22 MinetestBot arsdragonfly: Arsdragonfly's Landrush! Minetest server | arsenalmp.noip.me:30001 | Clients: 0/15, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.13-dev / minetest | Ping: 313ms 04:58 waressearcher2 !g Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile 04:58 MinetestBot waressearcher2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_longa,_vita_brevis 06:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ShadowNinja -> 03minetest/minetest: Lower log level for benign socket errors 134236792 http://git.io/vCVr6 (152015-10-14T02:22:04-04:00) 06:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ShadowNinja -> 03minetest/minetest: Use warningstream for log messages with WARNING 1396cc5b3 http://git.io/vCVri (152015-10-14T01:36:48-04:00) 06:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ShadowNinja -> 03minetest/minetest: Refactor logging 132139d7d http://git.io/vCVrP (152015-10-14T01:03:54-04:00) 06:34 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ShadowNinja -> 03minetest/minetest: Always use errorstream for DEBUG_EXCEPTION_HANDLER 136f4d6cb http://git.io/vCVoz (152015-10-14T02:33:30-04:00) 06:41 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ShadowNinja -> 03minetest/minetest: Rename macros with two leading underscores 136f2d785 http://git.io/vCVKS (152015-10-14T02:39:37-04:00) 06:59 TheWild yeah, still fixing "something". Last 14 commits were likely not to be noticed by general player. The last one I consider noticeable was "Add viewing range GUI setting". Yet there is no gamma setting but... yeah... who cares? 06:59 TheWild it makes me feel like Minetest started from chaos 07:01 Xeprione hello 07:01 TheWild hello Xeprione 07:03 Xeprione TheWild: you know what i like the most in the morning? 07:03 TheWild ummm? 07:04 Xeprione a hot Latte with a bar of Kex 07:05 Xeprione and by Kex, i mean Kexchoklad 07:05 Xeprione The only chocolate I can buy at any cost without feeling bad afterwards 07:05 TheWild Bon Appetit 07:05 Xeprione got to go, lesson starting 07:08 TheWild I do not mean that fixing little bugs or improving little stuff is bad. I mean that it takes quite long time to fix e.g. annoying flaws in the API which should never happen or add a feature that should be here from start. 07:09 waressearcher2 TheWild: how much hours per day you are spending playing minetest ? 07:10 TheWild not playing for quite long; spend few hours on monday, messing with technic 07:10 TheWild s/spend/spent 07:13 waressearcher2 why 07:15 TheWild I had fun with Minetest when I found that it has modding API. Yeah, that was great. No longer rage when there is a block missing - just program it. 07:16 TheWild Until I found that the Minetest API has weird limits, bugs and other oddities. 07:24 TheWild for example: player:get_look_yaw() — yaw in radians (wraps around pretty randomly as of now) - documentation says. I got with this problem once and created an issue. It was quickly marked as a duplicate. 07:24 TheWild so, we ended here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2658 07:25 TheWild nobody cared about fixing it, so I tried to find it on my own. Not tested, since "nothing written in C++ compiles on my machine", but the 90. put here quite arbitrarily seems to be the cause of the problem. 07:26 TheWild "Why 90. is here? Who made this crap?" - I thought. Then I found that... it was here when Minetest started! 07:31 TheWild Now is 0.4.13 and when we fix it, we get into compatibility problems with older mods. Uh... no problem, modders will update their mods. Or maybe not. So what's the solution? Maybe put a Minetest version number somewhere in the mod which it is compatible with, and let's Minetest resolve whether it should run the function its proper way or buggy. 07:34 est31 Mozilla/5.0 07:34 est31 we end up with hacks like this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5125438 07:35 nrzkt2 Mods should update with engine, if a program is not maintained it should not be our problem 07:38 TheWild Thanks est31. What we see, the idea of "versioning"... maybe works... but is not nice for future development. 07:40 nrzkt2 it's nice for engine enhancement for all. Modders should evolve, like core. 07:41 TheWild sofar proposed to do it forward compatible way, that is mark get_look_yaw and set_look_yaw obsolete and use other names for fixed functions 07:41 TheWild IMHO good idea, but 1. it will be fixed and 2. maybe we fix the mess like getpos (no underscores) and get_loo_yaw (has underscores) too. 07:42 TheWild s/but/because 07:43 est31 underscores should be preffered 07:43 est31 sofar's idea is the best here 07:47 TheWild is this legal to define my own functions in minetest table? 07:47 est31 its not nice 07:48 est31 but sometimes people do it 07:48 est31 in order to extend funcitonality 07:49 TheWild I mean: we could fix the #2658 by some mod, by checking that fixed version of function is defined in minetest, and if not, implement it though Lua 07:49 TheWild s/though/through 07:50 TheWild but it's another poor dependendy in other mods 07:57 thePalindrome Is this the channel for modding? The wiki says #minetest-mods, but the topic for that says to come here 07:59 est31 thePalindrome, most of discussion happens here 08:01 thePalindrome Ah, alright then. As such, I'd like to ask for a better definition of "Game" and "Mod." Is a Game a "super Mod?" 08:02 est31 a game can't do much more than a mod can 08:02 est31 so partly yes 08:02 est31 but a game is more a "super modpack" than a "super mod", because its rather a choice of mods than a mod for its own 08:03 thePalindrome Ah, so a Game is a ModPack with a custom Mod as "glue?" 08:03 kaeza thePalindrome, basically, a game is kind of like a pre-made collection of mods that provides a somewhat complete (for various definitions of the word) gameplay 08:04 kaeza +experience 08:04 kaeza by contrast, a modpack is an extension to games. i.e. not really playable as is 08:04 thePalindrome Ah, I see 08:05 thePalindrome So "Planes," "Trains," and "Automobiles" go in the "Transport" ModPack, but that gets put into the "Modern World" Game? 08:06 kaeza that's a good analogy, yes 08:07 thePalindrome Or, in other words, a Game is a ModPackPack? :P 08:07 waressearcher2 http://abstrusegoose.com/249 08:08 kaeza thePalindrome, yep (except that modpacks *can* contain other sub-modpacks, which may contain other sub-modpacks, which ...) 08:09 kaeza xzibit would be proud 08:09 kaeza waressearcher2, ha 08:09 thePalindrome Alright, I think your definitions make sense 08:11 thePalindrome (Former) Minecraft modder, got sick of the "API" changing, and gave up at 1.8 08:11 thePalindrome Really wanted to put together a Game for Minetest for a couple reasons 08:12 waressearcher2 kaeza: why you said "xzibit would be proud" ? you mean that rap singer ? 08:14 est31 thePalindrome, which page exactly points to #minetest-mods ? 08:15 thePalindrome dev.minetest.net/IRC 08:18 TheWild thePalindrome, just because of curiosity. At least few years ago, writing a mod required decompilation of MC, and mods were "installed" this crappy hackish way into MC files. Since then, did MC got some sensible API? 08:20 thePalindrome No, there's a project called "Minecraft Forge" that makes an actual API 08:20 thePalindrome Forge has to be patched in, but forge can load anything else from an actual mods folder 08:20 thePalindrome Configuration and even activation is all handled by Forge 08:24 TheWild nice, though still odd feeling as MC requires third party software to be moddable. It even reached higher level - it requires another third party software (Optifine) to not lag that much, like original programmers couldn't optimize this. 08:25 thePalindrome Not only that, but all the original team have left 08:29 Telesight Hello all, What protocol and port is used for a server_announce to the server list? 08:31 est31 HTTP 08:31 est31 POST 08:32 est31 but it is sent "as client" 08:32 est31 to the master server 08:32 est31 then the master server checks whether your server is reachable at the claimed address 08:32 est31 if not, it doesn't appear 08:32 est31 on the list 08:33 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy World Maths Day! 😃 08:50 thePalindrome Anyhow, in terms of flexibility, how would you rate MT's API? 08:53 TheWild it's "flexible to some extent". When Minetest reached version 0.4 and the modding API started, it was brilliant idea but the implementation is quite messed up. Many basic features are just not here. 08:55 thePalindrome Like what? 08:58 TheWild Like: tell me what is the thing the player is pointing at. Nope - no such method in API. You will only know when player puches/rightclicks a node or object. 08:58 TheWild but Minetest itself knows what is pointed, because the frame is drawn and in debug strings (F5), the node name is displayed 08:59 TheWild so that just core devs solved it, but didn't provide it to the API. 08:59 TheWild I thought once about player:get_pointed_thing() 09:00 thePalindrome Huh, are the core devs fairly receptive to api requests/patches? 09:01 TheWild sometimes 09:05 thePalindrome Hmmm, oh well 09:05 thePalindrome I suppose I can at least try modding it 09:06 TheWild player:get_pointed_thing() could solve the problem, but is "flexible to some extent" 09:08 TheWild this is because e.g. I get "default:glass". What's the position then? Ok, then {name="default:glass", pos={x=1,y=2,z=3}}. Well, I don't care about glass, tell me what's behind... 09:08 TheWild and the other is maybe we don't want the line of sight coming from player, but a some arbitrary point 09:09 waressearcher2 TheWild: "tell me what is the thing the player is pointing at", can you somehow "emulate" punching of a node and then read "what is the thing the player is punching" ? 09:10 thePalindrome Ah, so basic more along the lines of "So basic you'd have to be a loon to even think that people need to know that?" :P 09:10 TheWild waressearcher2, I'm not sure it is possible. I can simulate puching a node when I know node position, I think. 09:11 TheWild bringing a function as an iterator could solve the most: for info in minetest.line_of_sight(pos, dir, get_nodes, get_objects) 09:11 TheWild or pos1, pos2 09:13 TheWild yeah, there is a player:get_look_dir(), fortunately works properly so it could be solvable in Lua 09:16 TheWild I already did some progress by resolving the nodeboxes and objects bounding boxes, and the important term in table returned by the iterator is t, that is: if point is at pos, then t = 0; if point is at pos+dir, then t = 1; if point is exactly in the middle, then t = 0.5. t is given in such way that it is easy to calculate exact coordinates of the crossing point within the nodebox 09:17 TheWild Usage: you have computer with 4 buttons in single node, and when player clicks the node, it is possible to distinguish which button was pressed 09:18 thePalindrome Ah 09:22 TheWild a trivial example how I like to see this API: we have table.sort (lua builtin). This function accepts simple tables of strings or numbers and sorts them in ascending order. 09:22 TheWild Boo - I would say - this function can't sort tables of tables! 09:24 TheWild It can, there is table.sort(tab, callback(a,b)); your callback returns true when a should be before b, otherwise false. 09:24 TheWild Is there a list that cannot be sorted by table.sort? 09:25 TheWild Nope. Can I complain about anything? Nope. The function is complete. 09:31 TheWild I told few days ago: By now, we have grasslike, plantlike, torchlike... Mesh solves the most, but we would like to change the model appearance in different conditions. So... define more node types. 09:32 TheWild this way LuaController has 4 pins and 16 types of nodes defines. If it would have 8 pins, it would have 256 types of nodes. 09:35 TheWild The node should be allowed to obtain its conditions (e.g. neighbors) and render itsef. 09:36 TheWild By now it is only idea. It would require client-side scripting and not sure about technical limitations (e.g. Irrlicht is unable to do something). 09:36 TheWild and unsure performance of Lua 09:45 TheWild AFAIR, some crappy Chip's Challenge clone, Puzzle Studio, also used Lua as scripting language and it solved the problem of drawing tiles by giving GL context to Lua scripts. 09:51 thePalindrome Welp, time to go wake up in two hours 09:51 thePalindrome I'll talk to y'all before too long, eh? 11:15 Leoneof hey 12:03 Leoneof how's minetest nowadays? haven't used it long time 12:03 Leoneof :) 12:04 Calinou it hasn't changed much really 12:04 Calinou but it has a minimap now 12:30 TheWild are there plans for bringing other dimensions to the Minetest? 12:32 TheWild I do not mean anything specific, just to give modder a possibility to teleport player between dimensions. 13:33 swift110-phone Minetest is awesome 13:35 waressearcher2 swift110-phone: how much hours per day you spending in minetest ? 13:37 swift110-phone Not everyday 13:37 swift110-phone But when i do i really like it 13:37 rubenwardy http://gu.com/p/4da38/ :'( 13:38 rubenwardy !title 13:38 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Stephen Fry to step down as presenter of BBC's QI | Media | The Guardian 13:39 waressearcher2 !g QI 13:39 MinetestBot waressearcher2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi 13:41 rubenwardy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QI 13:42 rubenwardy Doesn't matter if you've seen the sources, as long as you don't copy parts 13:42 rubenwardy as for algorithms, can they be copyrights? 13:43 rubenwardy I don't think they can 13:43 rubenwardy waressearcher2, 13:43 rubenwardy VanessaE 13:44 VanessaE algoithms, sadly, can be patented 13:44 VanessaE but not copyrighted. 13:45 VanessaE the clean-room theory stems from the idea that, in the case of proprietary software, you can't easily prove that the code you wrote isn't a direct copy of the original code (either from sources or disassembly) 13:45 VanessaE plus he wants to change the license. 13:45 waressearcher2 I'm asking with no specific reason 13:46 VanessaE given the size of minetest's codebase and the fact that it's C++, pretty sure some of that code will work in a regular C context also 13:46 est31 Oracle got in serious trouble for java 13:46 est31 ermm 13:46 est31 google 13:46 est31 and it was only the API 13:46 est31 everything else was replaced 13:46 waressearcher2 you mean dalvik's code ? 13:47 est31 yea, or whatever its called now 14:03 waressearcher2 !g dalek 14:03 MinetestBot waressearcher2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek 14:55 Darcidride hi, if i changed the "EnvArgs" in the meta_env.txt, is the world will be erased or corrupted ? 15:26 JohnnyComeL8ly Good morning! 16:23 nyje #debian 16:24 Teckla nyje: Here, have a /join to go with that #debian ;) 16:25 nyje hehehe slip of the shortcut ;-) 16:32 JohnnyComeL8ly Is Minetest compatible with Wayland? 16:32 rubenwardy !g minetest wayland 16:32 MinetestBot rubenwardy: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2014-09-10 16:32 rubenwardy there was a topic about this 16:33 rubenwardy !g minetest wayland site:forum.minetest.net 16:33 MinetestBot rubenwardy: No results found for 'minetest wayland site:forum.minetest.net'. 16:33 JohnnyComeL8ly Oh, well I'll look at the link you found already. 16:39 Leoneof is minetest compatible with dosbox? :] 17:09 Calinou I always disable menu bar in terminal, waste of space IMO 17:50 Calinou Herobrine is now 16. 17:50 Calinou see Birthdays section of forum 19:58 hmmmm ooh boy 19:58 hmmmm 16 is old enough to be legal ;) i'm gonna go internet creep on her 19:58 hmmmm why do people announce their age on IRC? 20:11 swift110 lol 20:12 swift110 that is stupid 20:12 swift110 hmmm because in general people have access to things that they ignorantly don't take the time to understand 20:15 hmmmm 'hey babe a/s/l? u wanna cyber w/ me?' 20:15 CWz I see that happening everyday on many servers 20:16 CWz I shall now vanish into the fog of fogginess. 20:26 me_ @testingbot do you hear me? 20:26 bobomb is luaJIT part of the default build currently? 20:28 hmmmm no