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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-03-25

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Time Nick Message
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00:15 ipv6b Has it happened before that you were playing on a server whose accounts got reset and as a result a malicious or malicious users started taking over accounts that had good rep and started wreaking havoc?
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01:06 * Sokomine waits for paramat to show up
01:11 Sokomine ipv6b: that sounds rather unlikely. what happens sooner or later on many servers is that they're taken down and disappear. so keep local map saving on
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01:49 bleak_fire_ hi
01:49 bleak_fire_ what is the mod to give the see-through crystal blocks
01:56 VanessaE there are a number of mods that have such things
01:56 VanessaE glooptest and stainedglass are two such
01:57 VanessaE caverealms has something similar too
02:05 bleak_fire_ caverealms is the one
02:05 bleak_fire_ tthat i was thinking of
02:05 bleak_fire_ because i accidentally found a "secret area" in pizzaserver i only told a few people about
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02:56 Sokomine bleak_fire_: pizzaserver has a creative day today - so you can get ressources for free. useful if you intend to build something
02:57 bleak_fire_ ok
02:57 bleak_fire_ thanks for telling
02:58 bleak_fire_ i'm thinking of doing that with my server at different points
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03:22 Sokomine it may be pretty destructive for any economy...but i havn't really checked
03:22 Sokomine i found a nice place last time and built a cafe there
03:24 Sokomine hmm. anyone speaking french present? seems there's someone on the forum having problems with posting
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05:36 pilcrow is there something wrong with inventorycube? When wielding default:water_source, I keep getting ERROR[main]: generateImagePart(): Failed to load image "[inventorycube{default_water.png{d​efault_water.png{default_water.png" for [combine
05:38 pilcrow ^it doesn't actually affect the visuals at all; default:water_source and others still look fine, as if they worked correctly, but my minetest spits out that error whenever a node uses minetest.inventorycube...
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08:07 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Update German translation and minetest.pot b711d90 http://git.io/jTci (2015-03-25T09:04:54+01:00)
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08:15 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Remove duplicate code since 8ca08a850ff2494652aa0ac2daa3d00f03aa4e7a 284fefb http://git.io/jTCX (2015-03-25T09:08:17+01:00)
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10:02 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Tolkien Reading Day! :-D
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10:25 Megaf Hi all
10:25 stormchaser3000 hi Megaf
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10:34 meldrian hi ther
10:34 meldrian e
10:59 Megaf VanessaE:
10:59 Megaf 6:58:27: WARNING: Undeclared global variable "moretrees_new_leaves_waving" accessed at ...minetest/MegafServer/bin/../m​ods/moretrees/node_defs.lua:304
10:59 Megaf 06:58:27: WARNING: Undeclared global variable "moretrees_new_leaves_waving" accessed at ...minetest/MegafServer/bin/../m​ods/moretrees/node_defs.lua:331
10:59 Megaf and
10:59 Megaf 06:58:27: WARNING: Assignment to undeclared global "override" inside a function at ...Server/bin/../mods/plantlife_​modpack/vines/functions.lua:97.
10:59 Megaf Should we worry about that?
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11:11 Megaf And also, vines are growing from regular trees again
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11:51 Calinou made new Fedora and Debian builds
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12:01 stormchaser3000 Calinou: nice
12:04 Megaf I'm working on removing non freetype stuff from Minetest
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12:56 luizrpgluiz hi
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16:35 Megaf how do I revert my git to a commit again?
16:35 Jordach git revert <commit shorthand>
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16:38 Megaf Thanks, That's is what I was doing, but at the wrong directory...
16:42 xenkey Commit shorthand ?
16:43 est31 like for example HEAD^
16:43 est31 or deadbeef1337
16:43 est31 ok, bad example
16:43 est31 you know, hex stuff
16:44 xenkey Right
16:44 xenkey Nice to know my server is keeping players
16:45 xenkey It was that 1000w essay and bullet points + broad analysis which helped mosr
16:45 xenkey Most*
16:48 VanessaE if you want to roll back to a specific point in the history,  git reset <commit ID>
16:48 VanessaE git revert <commit>  is for backing out some commit from the code, but it still keeps you where you were, minus the effects of that commit
16:52 Megaf PID USER      PRI  NI  VIRT   RES   SHR S CPU% MEM%   TIME+  Command
16:52 Megaf 12561 minetest   20   0  331M  153M  6124 S  6.0 30.0 31:46.00 bin/minetestserver
16:52 Megaf VanessaE: I can't reproduce the rollback memory leak
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16:53 Megaf wait, maybe I can
16:56 Megaf we do have a severe leak on the client
16:56 VanessaE it happens when you do a rollback check with a large enough (=5+ GB) log, and especially if you actually do the rollback action to revert someone's griefing once found
16:56 Megaf PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
16:56 Megaf 8512 reglnx    20   0 2149976 1.270g  24436 R  73.1 39.0   1:46.90 minetest
16:57 VanessaE memory will rise during the check, and it'll spike heavily during the actual rollback/revert action when you do that.
16:57 Megaf client just started, no shaders, particles, fancy stuff, everythign is off
16:57 Megaf VanessaE: ok
16:58 VanessaE plus the act of doing a rollback check is horrendously slow with huge rollback logs
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16:58 VanessaE a tens-of-gigs log should not be slow, that's not how databases are supposed to work
16:58 Megaf VanessaE: here during check the server memory use actually was lower
16:59 Megaf but my rollback file is small, I have to clean it every week or so
16:59 Megaf 1.8G    MegafServer/worlds/world/rollback.sqlite
17:00 VanessaE I gave up using rollback at all on some of my servers
17:00 VanessaE it just isn't worth it
17:02 Megaf Yep, disabling rollback can even increse servers performance
17:02 Megaf in my server I have disabled the log writing
17:03 Jordach VanessaE, why'd you think i prefer areas for resolving playermade structires
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17:06 VanessaE Jordach: yep.  That's where I stand now with those servers
17:06 VanessaE protect your structures or suffer the consequences :P
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17:08 Zytum hi
17:09 Megaf Hi there
17:10 Megaf hm, I believe I managed to get a very good configuration for my server, with little to no lag at all
17:10 Megaf !server Megaf
17:10 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/9, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.12-dev / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms
17:11 Megaf you should try riding a boat there
17:13 Zytum I visit your world Megaf
17:14 Zytum media 50%
17:15 Zytum 90
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17:17 Zytum my f***ng connection!!
17:17 Megaf Zytum: heh, lots of stuff to be loaded
17:17 Zytum aha, ok
17:17 Zytum I can't wait
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17:27 Jordach !server Jordach
17:27 MinetestBot Jordach: Jordach's Public Server | jordach.net:30001 | Clients: 4/15, 1/6 | Version: 0.4.11-dev / minetest | Ping: 6ms
17:27 Jordach two can play the 6ms ping game
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17:28 cd2 zeno
17:29 cd2 are you here?
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17:53 xenkey !server zenith
17:53 MinetestBot xenkey: Zenith - The Second Coming | mt.3tm.net | Clients: 11/32, 4/20 | Version: 0.4.12-dev / zenith | Ping: 18ms
17:53 xenkey Almost
17:54 xenkey Players > ping :3
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18:22 neti_netwalker hello
18:22 stormchaser3000 hi
18:22 neti_netwalker anypne here who can tell me how to use fast move in the android version?
18:23 neti_netwalker i can active an deactive it but i cannot find a way howto use ist
18:23 neti_netwalker it
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19:25 Nihao Greetings, protectors of the cubes!
19:26 Nihao VanessaE: I forgot to ask you yesterday, if I shall enter the issue document for what we talked about.
19:26 VanessaE I forgot what we talked about :D
19:27 Nihao bugs...
19:27 Nihao http://pastebin.com/zvcVGJE3
19:28 Nihao spigot
19:29 VanessaE OH
19:29 VanessaE that
19:29 VanessaE I have a tab open for that already
19:29 VanessaE did you try new_flow_logic yet?
19:30 Nihao That was point 3. I just come back from work, I will ask.
19:30 Nihao No, we did not try  that. Is it the approved solution to our problem?
19:32 Nihao But we do use the latest technics.
19:34 Nihao We will put it. Won't be long to activate it, as the  server reboots all the time :(
19:34 Nihao Here is tonights bug: http://pastebin.com/LxsjFDmj
19:35 Nihao mods/mesecons_detector/init.lua:251: in function <...e/minetest/.minetest/mods/m​esecons_detector/init.lua:250>
19:36 Nihao As the experimental Hud modification pretty muuch messed up the behaviour of thee game, we entirely deactivated Hud. To avoid that problem.
19:39 Nihao VanessaE: I have to correct what I wrote: new_flow_logic was already activated.
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19:40 VanessaE file that one against mesecons.
19:40 Nihao OK.
19:41 Nihao There are some other points: The problem of the Quarry is still there.
19:41 Nihao it seems it would be wise to deactivate it by default.
19:41 VanessaE Nihao: new_flow_logic is a total rewrite of all of the water reflow logic, and it also contains a few bugfixes.  the spigot and entry panel glitches you reported are already fixed there (or should be)
19:41 VanessaE problem is some people don't like the new behavior
19:42 VanessaE so it still needs tuning
19:42 VanessaE I forgot, what's wrong with the quarry?
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19:50 Nihao VanessaE: Quarry was tested in singleplayer mode and still crashes the server.
19:52 Nihao I have the log but it came by IRC, I have to clean it first.
19:55 VanessaE ok
19:56 Nihao VanessaE: Here it is: http://pastebin.com/J2sRgtbu
19:57 VanessaE Nihao: that's a bug in the bones mod.
19:57 VanessaE it doesn't know how to handle when the digger is nil
19:57 VanessaE sfan5: ^^^^^^6
19:57 VanessaE -6
19:57 Nihao Lets remove bones then :)
19:58 VanessaE (apparently it's not spelled out in the API whether digger is allowed to be nil or not in certain things like can_dig, so it's unclear how it should be handled)
19:58 Nihao Just kidding. Our concern is that we can not stabilise the server any more.
19:58 VanessaE no, go ahead and delete bones mod.
19:58 VanessaE you can always re-enable it later after it's fixed.
19:59 sfan5 VanessaE: ?
19:59 Nihao sfan5: It seems you are about to deliver a fix of bones?
20:00 VanessaE sfan5: fix bones mod in minetest_game.  it doesn't like digger = nil in its can_dig functionsd
20:00 VanessaE -d
20:00 sfan5 the actual problem is that the api docs don't say whether digger may be nil
20:00 VanessaE yep I know
20:00 sfan5 Nihao: all you can do to fix it right now is to delete the bones mod like VanessaE said
20:01 Nihao This is not just an API problem. It is a decision what the target is.
20:01 Nihao Is the target a running server?
20:02 Nihao We will delete bones mod. Side impacts?
20:02 sfan5 there will be no bones
20:02 Nihao inventory lost?
20:03 sfan5 when you die you keep your inventory if there is no bones mod iirc
20:03 Nihao ok.
20:05 Nihao Our server is a good laboratory for bringing mods together. But we are losing even highly motivated players due to the recurrent crashes. The admin is a bit upset and I do not know how to handle that. Sincerely, when I stumbled on the comments "experimental" of the Hud, I was about to explode. How could that be published?
20:06 Nihao Now, my concern s the following:
20:06 Nihao Satbilise the situation.
20:07 Nihao We remove the Hud, the bones, deactivate mesecons, the new seeds messed up the landscape and had to be removed, what will remain?
20:09 Nihao Sad.
20:09 sfan5 what problems did mesecons cause?
20:10 Nihao --> Here is tonights bug: http://pastebin.com/LxsjFDmj
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20:18 Nihao sfan5: server crash, if that is the answer you waited for.
20:18 Nihao like 15 in 3 minutes
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20:32 Nihao Here is the issue document. Tell me if it needs updates:  https://github.com/Jeija/mine​test-mod-mesecons/issues/228
20:34 Nihao If anybody has some good advise, how to stabilise the server, I take it.
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20:50 sfan5 Nihao: the mesecons crash seems to be caused by a detector node with an invalid param2
20:51 Nihao sfan5: How can I get rid of that?
20:52 sfan5 Nihao: you can get rid of it using worldedit, please don't get rid of it right now, though, it might be useful for the fix
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21:01 sfan5 Nihao: please apply this patch http://meow.minetest.net/i/18827e48da5a6955.patch and try to reproduce the problem again (it should not crash but give you a debug message in the log/stdout)
21:02 Sokomine Nihao: there are plenty of stable servers out there, but it might take time to get started and find the right combinations of mods. which server is yours, and what are your goals for it?
21:04 Nihao Holà Sokominé: game.minetest-france.fr
21:05 Nihao The target is to find a way to have a bit of PvP, a lot of building and collaboration.
21:06 Nihao It mostly works. The problem is that when there are say 14 people connected and we get 10 consecutive reboots, only 4 come back.
21:09 Sokomine hmm. frequent crashes are of course not a good idea
21:09 Sokomine er, are not good
21:10 Sokomine i'm not sure how far "a bit of pvp" works. i'm in general not using such servers. though there is one that manages to do the fighting against mobs pretty well. wouldn't have thought that was possible in mt some time ago
21:10 Nihao Sokomine: I am not changing server. I am changing the server....
21:11 Nihao But as a good example, I would like to see it. Do you know our server?
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21:17 Sokomine Nihao: yes, i understood you that way. but it sometimes helps to talk to other server owners as they've got their own experience
21:19 Nihao OK. I am always listening. Sorry, I am a bit tense.
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21:30 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: flowers/mapgen.lua: Register flower decorations for mgv6 8a8712e http://git.io/jq7D (2015-03-25T21:28:15Z)
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21:57 Pilcrow_ Hey guys. I asked this last night, but is there something wrong with minetest.inventorycube? I've noticed that the nodes that use it seem to have no problems (inventory image and wield image are still normal), but the server spits out an odd error when it encounters them. default:water_source, for example: 'ERROR[main]: generateImagePart(): Failed to load image "[inventorycube{default_water.png{d​efault_water.png{default_water.png
21:58 est31 yes, it has been noted by paramat too I think.
21:58 Pilcrow_ ^ my internet went out last night, so I'm asking again. sorry.
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21:59 Pilcrow_ alright, just thought I'd point it out in case nobody had noticed it yet. the odd thing is that it doesn't actually seem to cause any graphical problems at all...
21:59 est31 aw sorry no it was you
22:00 est31 http://irc.minetest.ru/min​etest/2015-03-25#i_4200491
22:00 est31 ^ use that site to confirm if you aren't sure :)
22:02 Pilcrow_ ah, haha. I forgot all about the logs! this is a build from a few days ago though, FYI. I <just> finished compiling a new binary today, so I will test it again in a second.
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22:05 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: flowers/mapgen.lua: Remove unnecessary double quotation marks 21c874a http://git.io/jmUM (2015-03-25T22:03:53Z)
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22:17 luizrpgluiz hi
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22:22 Pilcrow_ ah, est31, that error still happens. it's only when you -wield- an item that uses inventorycube. also, it seems some recent update really wrecked Wuzzy's hudbars mod. the way it should look: http://i.imgur.com/GHqPuEH.png ... the way it looks in the latest build: https://i.imgur.com/IHC1j9J.png
22:23 est31 Pilcrow_, can you create issues for both of your problems?
22:23 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues
22:23 est31 that way they don't get lost :)
22:25 Pilcrow_ I'll try. I've never done it before, but it seems to just look similar to a forum post...  :P
22:26 est31 Its really just the same. you can even drag+drop images into the editfield :)
22:30 Pilcrow_ alright. also, I suppose wuzzy's hudbar mod is probably not the only one that has problems (seems like some kind of texture scaling problem)
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22:42 Pilcrow_ est31, I've created both issues. Thanks for the help.  :)
22:47 est31 thanks for reporting :)
22:48 Pilcrow_ On an unrelated note, my friend and I have been talking about upgrading his old server from 0.4.8 to 0.4.12. He wants to stay with "stable" releases, and it seems his old mods will work fine in the new version (with some slight modification), but we were wondering if it would be better to wait for 0.4.13, or just do the upgrade now? He probably won't want to upgrade again for a long while, knowing him...  :P
22:49 est31 0.4.12 was a bugfix release, fixing many bugs with 0.4.11. I don't know whether there will be a 0.4.13 release, or directly a 0.5.0 release, which will feature perhaps unstable changes.
22:50 est31 AFAIK that hasnt been decided, but I'm not sure...
22:51 Pilcrow_ ah, alright. From other talk that has been going around here on irc and in the forums, it sounded like a 0.4.13 would be released and then 0.5.0
22:51 hmmmm heh
22:52 hmmmm http://blog.erratasec.com/2015/03​/x86-is-high-level-language.html#.VRM7gC6vBhE
22:52 est31 !title
22:52 MinetestBot est31: Errata Security: x86 is a high-level language
22:52 est31 O.O
22:52 est31 next step: microcode optimisations.
22:54 Pilcrow_ curious, what big changes will there be with 0.5.0? I've only really heard about the network changes that will supposedly reduce lag but make it impossible for 0.4.x clients to connect to 0.5.x servers (and vice versa?)
22:55 hmmmm that's a single new developer's imagination
22:55 hmmmm there's no way incompatibility like that will fly for real
23:00 Pilcrow_ I see. sorry for misunderstanding then. that's the only -big- news I'd heard. Is there perhaps some kind of roadmap page outlining what is intended to be done before a 0.5.0 release?
23:01 est31 there is: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2370
23:03 Hirato It's best to break the network protocol sooner rather than later, if it does need a radical redesign
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23:04 est31 many parts need it
23:04 est31 problem is: there are apps out there with ~10 mio users, and they are not under the control of the dev team
23:04 est31 forks
23:05 est31 major problem for your question is now that they don't update
23:05 est31 so, statistics show that most people haven't left 0.4.10
23:05 est31 although its quite old now.
23:06 werwerwer official android build isn't ready yet?
23:06 est31 it is
23:07 est31 http://www.minetest.net/download#android
23:07 Hirato haha, can't believe I made freemienr siwtch to enet
23:07 werwerwer don't see problem then. break compatibility
23:07 Hirato I wonder how it went
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23:15 Pilcrow_ well, the roadmap for 0.5.0 is definitely an interesting read. I gotta say, I'm very interested in the idea of redesigned formspecs, as well as speeding up inventory actions. maybe we'll finally have completely lag-free movement of items from a player's inventory to chests/furnaces and vice versa? heh. maybe not. I can dream...  :P
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23:50 stormchaser3000 does anyone know if optical mouses are compatible with debian testing?
23:51 stormchaser3000 or do i need to install proerietary firmware?
23:51 stormchaser3000 properiatery*
23:52 stormchaser3000 darn i can't type that
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23:52 Sokomine why not? mice are pretty normal input devices. they ought to work without problem (unless they have special buttons or such)
23:53 VanessaE stormchaser3000: these days, a mouse is a mouse is a mouse.
23:53 VanessaE doesn't matter if it uses a ball or optical
23:54 VanessaE debian uses the same X as everyone else does, I'm pretty sure :-) and optical mice work fine, no proprietary* drivers needed
23:54 stormchaser3000 VanessaE: i plug the mouse in and nothing
23:55 stormchaser3000 the mouse does close to nothing
23:55 VanessaE "close to"
23:55 VanessaE ?
23:55 * stormchaser3000 wonders if there is operating system restrictions
23:55 stormchaser3000 um
23:55 Sokomine what kind of mouse did you have before?
23:56 stormchaser3000 well i seem to be able to get a light to shine when i press the right click button i think
23:56 stormchaser3000 Sokomine: atm i am using a laser mouse but i want to use optical

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