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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-03-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 Pilcrow_ aren't laser and optical mice the same thing?
00:04 VanessaE yep
00:15 Pilcrow_ ^ just asking because it seems as though stormchaser3000 is refering to something else. he's using laser and wants to use optical but they are the same thing so I assume he's meaning something else by the term 'optical'
00:18 VanessaE no idea what else it would be but a common laser mouse.
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00:35 Pilcrow_ VanessaE, me neither. that's why I asked. was hoping stormchaser3000 would answer, but it seems he/she is busy right now...  ;P
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00:46 Pilcrow_ since wtfpl states "changing it is allowed as long as the name is changed", does that mean that for releasing a subgame, I've got to rename any wtfpl mods that have been modified if I intend to include them?
00:47 VanessaE no
00:47 VanessaE only the package as a whole, and even then the WTFPL doesn't say that
00:48 VanessaE oh wait, yeah it does
00:48 VanessaE that's new.
00:48 VanessaE or I didn't remember it
00:49 VanessaE anyway it can't particularly apply to the individual packages that make up a subgame because doing so will break them
00:50 VanessaE besides, that "change the name" refers to the license itself, not the package distributed under it.
00:51 Pilcrow_ ah, I didn't actually notice that. now I feel dumb, lol. thank you~
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00:52 VanessaE heh
00:54 Sokomine complicated things, those liscences
00:55 Pilcrow_ The reason I asked is that I've been programming and putting together my own subgame, Dustworld, for a long time. I've made a lot of mods specifically for it, but there are a lot that are by others as well, and those are modified with recipie changes, tweaks, and in a few cases even rewrites of half the code... I'll eventually release the mods I've made seperately, but I want to release Dustworld as a whole first...
01:08 Pilcrow_ haha. est31 just quit as I was writing a message for him... well, for anyone else who was interested in our earlier conversation, I found the commit that caused the texture error I was talking about. commit 1e4fb80d46da634f04d84e3f1065aaabc6909468 caused a problem with the scaling of certain HUD textures. check out issue 2558 for more info.
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01:20 est31 Pilcrow_, can you test to set texture_clean_transparent = false, does the bug go away then?
01:21 Pilcrow_ sure, I'll try. does that just go in minetest.conf?
01:21 est31 yes
01:26 Pilcrow_ alright, est31, texture_clean_transparent = false fixes -part- of the issue, as the heart and bread icons are now the right size, but the colored bars are still very wrong. http://i.imgur.com/iY1x5Bo.png
01:27 est31 does it work when you also set texture_min_size to 0?
01:31 Pilcrow_ oh, actually it seems the oversized heart and bread icons were caused by a different commit, as they are still the right size in 1e4fb80d46da634f04d84e3f1065aaabc6909468 even without texture_clean_transparent = false.
01:32 est31 when you have final findings share them on github. I'm logging now off.
01:32 est31 bye
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05:18 firenotire honest question - have there been any legal issues with minetest (in regards to minecraft)
05:19 VanessaE nope
05:19 VanessaE and there won't be
05:19 VanessaE minetest does not use any code or assets from minecraft, nor does minecraft have a monopoly on the idea of a voxel/sandbox game
05:19 VanessaE so we're in the clear.
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05:21 firenotire ah i see
05:21 firenotire nice
05:22 firenotire just found out about minetest a few days ago
05:22 VanessaE there might be some random modder or texture pack maker somewhere who could get in trouble if their stuff is too similar to minecraft, but that's their problem, not ours :)
05:22 firenotire the minecraft community exploded, but eventually i found it a little sad that the game itself wasn't open source
05:23 firenotire nice to see a community starting around minetest :)
05:25 VanessaE we've been around for a couple of years, but we could use more people :)
05:30 firenotire i'm a new-ish software developer; hopefully i can make some contributions
05:31 firenotire i'm also pretty interested in education as well - have there been any use cases for minetest in education? similar to how people have done with minecraft
05:33 VanessaE we could use the help I'm sure
05:33 VanessaE and yeah, I do recall at least a couple of cases where minetest has been used in an educational setting
05:34 VanessaE though I don't remember the details
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06:32 MinetestBot [git] Jeija -> Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Return if invalid parameters are given to node_detector_scan (e.g. unloaded area), should fix #228 b6ae419 http://git.io/jYDo (2015-03-26T07:29:34+01:00)
06:32 MinetestBot [git] Jeija -> Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Add support for sticky blocks for pistons and a a sample sticky block a6d0a52 http://git.io/jYDK (2015-02-28T13:42:39+01:00)
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09:05 fuznuts any minetest devs here by chance?
09:06 alket #minetest-dev |
09:06 fuznuts love you :)
09:06 alket love you too
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10:04 JamesTait Good morning, people! Happy Make Up Your Own Holiday Day! :-D
10:07 alket this is good :)
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11:25 Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, the official Minetest channel | CLEAR your cookies if you can't log in to forum | Latest version: 0.4.12 (2015-02-18) | Responses may take a while, so be patient. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/
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11:28 Megaf_ Morning JamesTait
11:28 JamesTait Hi Megaf_!
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11:30 Megaf_ I'm here trying to remote install Raspbian on my new Raspberry Pi 2
11:30 Megaf_ But I can't SSH to it =/
11:30 Megaf_ It will just time out
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12:34 srifqi can we read old messages from IRC?
12:35 Zeno` yes
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12:35 Zeno` from which channel?
12:35 srifqi like from #anotherchannelthatyoumustnotopenit?
12:35 srifqi how does IRC work?
12:35 Zeno` well, not generally I don't think but #minetest and #minetest-dev are logged
12:36 srifqi oh,
12:36 Zeno` irc doesn't log anything normally
12:36 srifqi so, IRC only a place to distribute to all CONNECTED client?
12:36 Zeno` (not by itself)
12:36 srifqi not using a database?
12:36 Zeno` basically, yes
12:36 Zeno` yep, no database at all
12:37 srifqi okay
12:38 exio4 IRC is extremly light
12:38 srifqi extremely light? wow
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12:50 exio4 yes, I can't spell, thank you srifqi ;_;
12:51 srifqi np :D thanks for answer
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12:54 Calinou set up a logging bot, but unauthorised public logging of channels is forbidden
12:56 srifqi oh, thanks for info, Calinou
12:56 srifqi I even don't know how to set up a bot
12:56 srifqi :D
12:56 Calinou you can use the one we use for irc.minetest.ru
12:58 srifqi what bot?
12:58 Calinou http://moritz.faui2k3.org/en/ilbot
13:03 srifqi oh, so, when I say:
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13:03 srifqi it wouldn't logged?
13:06 exio4 yeah
13:14 Megaf_ Im compiling minetest on my Raspberry Pi 2, lets see how long it takes
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13:30 srifqi Megaf_ it's 16 minutes since you compile, has it done?
13:30 Megaf_ stewi1014: Yep
13:31 Megaf_ [100%] Built target minetest
13:31 Megaf_ real13m46.450s
13:31 srifqi ~13 minutes?
13:31 Megaf_ yep
13:32 Megaf_ huge improvment from Raspberry 1 that took an hour or more
13:32 Megaf_ It is actually faster than my x86 laptop :S
13:33 srifqi ._.
13:33 Megaf_ Im running again, on the RPi2 and on my laptop, I want to see who finishes first
13:33 srifqi *speechless
13:33 srifqi yep! a contest
13:34 Megaf_ so, the RPi2, underclocked, consuming about 5 watts of power can beat a dual core x86 running at 1,3 GHz?
13:34 Megaf_ That's what we are going to see! Stay tunned
13:35 Megaf_ Raspberry Pi 2 is at 35% and x86 at 27%
13:35 exio4 ARM cpus are getting better, they still don't beat x86 at the IPC war, afaik
13:35 Megaf_ 32% x86 - RPi2 36%
13:36 Megaf_ 5400 RPM disk vs Class 4 Micro SD
13:36 Megaf_ 2 x 1,3 GHz vs 4 x 900 MHz
13:36 Megaf_ 44% vs 47%
13:37 Megaf_ RPi2 is on the lead!
13:37 Megaf_ lead? Is that how you spell it?
13:37 Megaf_ x86 takes the lead!
13:38 Megaf_ and RPi is now side by side!
13:38 Megaf_ 54% vs 54%
13:38 Megaf_ x86 jumps ahead again
13:38 Megaf_ 95% vs 57%
13:38 Megaf_ oops
13:38 Megaf_ 59% vs 57%
13:39 Megaf_ RPi manages to get side by side again and is trying to overtake,
13:39 Megaf_ 64% vs 64%
13:39 Megaf_ Amazing, RPi managed to overtake again!
13:40 Megaf_ 65% vs 66%
13:40 Megaf_ That's going to be close
13:40 Megaf_ Man, thisi s better than Formula One already
13:40 Megaf_ 72% vs 69%
13:41 Megaf_ The slow Class4 SD card on the Pi is botlenecking it
13:42 Megaf_ 88% vs 77%
13:42 Megaf_ RPi2 will not be the winner after all
13:43 Megaf_ 97% vs 85%
13:43 Megaf_ x86 wins the race
13:43 Megaf_ [100%] Built target minetest
13:43 Megaf_ real11m10.190s
13:44 Megaf_ ^ srifqi
13:44 Megaf_ exio4: you are correct
13:44 srifqi Megaf_, x86 win?
13:44 srifqi wow!
13:44 Megaf_ but if I used by ODROI-U3 with it's 4 ARM cores at 1,2 GHz my x86 would be smashed to pieces
13:44 exio4 Megaf_: let's do it again, let's fight, my bulldozer vs your rpi :3
13:44 Megaf_ ODROID*
13:45 srifqi :v
13:45 exio4 Megaf_: rude
13:45 exio4 the nicest non x86 hw I have is an arduino :(
13:46 Megaf_ RPi2 did it in
13:46 Megaf_ [100%] Built target minetest
13:46 Megaf_ real13m40.827s
13:47 Megaf_ so, RPi 2 at 900Mhz is 2 minutes slower than my x86 CPU at 1,3 GHz
13:47 Megaf_ using a slow class4 sd card
13:47 Megaf_ not too bad!
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13:50 Megaf_ exio4: srifqi:If you are interesd in comparing, run cmake with -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=0 -DENABLE_REDIS=0 -DUSE_FREETYPE=0 -DBUILD_SERVER=0
13:50 Megaf_ and then time make -j (numer of cores/threads)
13:51 Megaf_ I will run that on my ODROID U3
13:51 exio4 I am not at home now :P, will do it tomorrow / tonight
13:54 Megaf_ That race wasnt fair Im afraid
13:54 Megaf_ this x86 got a newer version of GCC
13:55 Megaf_ the Raspberry Pi 2 is runnign software optimized for the Raspberry 1
13:55 Megaf_ gcc version 4.6.3 (Debian 4.6.3-14+rpi1)
13:55 Megaf_ the x86 GCC is gcc version 4.9.2 (Debian 4.9.2-10)
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14:41 exio4 Megaf_: the rpi2 is armv7 iirc, it'd be better if you ran optimized sw for it
14:42 Megaf_ yep, but there is no Debian based distro for that yet
14:43 Megaf_ I'm upgrading to Debian right now tho
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14:44 exio4 Megaf_: official debian
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14:56 Megaf_ exio4: I just have to figure out how to install it
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14:57 Megaf_ I will try this thing https://images.collabora.co.uk/r​pi2/jessie-rpi2-20150202.img.gz
14:59 VanessaE sfan5: *poke*
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15:29 gamemanj I've worked out a way of properly sandboxing Lua within Lua for computer mods. No C++ edits needed, but it's somewhat messy.
15:31 gamemanj Basically: The usual environment editing, plus using debug.sethook to check if it's been running too long,
15:32 gamemanj then wrapping pcall to check for the "timeout" error and pass it on,
15:34 gamemanj and finally replacing whitespace with newlines outside of comments & strings in a replacement for load to make sure the hook is triggered.(no bytecode allowed of course)
15:35 VanessaE gamemanj: you should run this by Jeija
15:36 VanessaE LuaControllers in mesecons could probably benefit from this
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15:40 gamemanj I'll see if I can mod it into a LuaController. The only problem I've thought of wouldn't damage the server,
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15:40 gamemanj but it would allow anyone capable of causing a "error" to shutdown that specific sandbox.
15:41 gamemanj ...actually, just prefix the error messages.NVM.
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15:44 sfan5 VanessaE: *poke back*
15:45 VanessaE sfan5: I was about to ask, but kilbith beat me to it:  https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/478
15:49 gamemanj ...I've just been looking at LuaController...it actually seems that Jeija beat me to it, and wrote a note in there. After testing...So much for that plan.
15:50 gamemanj (If LuaJIT is disabled, it doesn't do the loop filtering...)
15:51 VanessaE heh
15:51 gamemanj I still have a plan, though.
15:51 gamemanj The loop filtering could be improved to not look in strings & comments. Plus,
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15:52 gamemanj while loops and for loops must have a "do".
15:53 gamemanj So, if someone were to add a useless instruction, the problem with LuaJIT would be averted.
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16:05 gamemanj ...The solution would probably be to run the Lua through a simple lexer-it only has to pick up keywords reliably-and then add calls to a useless function where needed.
16:07 gamemanj That would fix the problem Jejia mentioned in the code comment, anyway.
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16:16 Calinou or Minetest should remove plain Lua support *_*
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17:12 orbea is there any benefit to running a minetest server that is actually intalled than just run_in_place?
17:14 VanessaE orbea: not really a great deal of benefit except always knowing where the files need to go
17:14 VanessaE i.e. you will always know that it's gonna be /usr/bin/minetestserver, and that worlds will always be $HOME/.minetest/worlds  and so on
17:14 VanessaE but that's about it
17:15 VanessaE non-run-in-place has the advantage of letting you run a different build for each minetest server instance, if needed
17:17 orbea thanks, that makes sense
17:19 sofar I like to keep one for "production" and the other for "beta-testing"
17:20 Megaf_ exio4: I managed to run the standard debian jessie userland on the raspberry pi 2
17:20 Megaf_ so soon we will have a fair race!
17:20 Megaf_ but I wont be broadcasting it here this time :P
17:20 sofar I'll bring my MinnowBoard Max then too
17:20 orbea i've been likjing the portability of run_in_place, but the guy that runs the server has been questioning its stability :shrug:
17:22 exio4 Megaf_: <3
17:22 exio4 gonna benchmark it at home, with 2 cores disabled and downclocking to stock frequency, is this alright?
17:22 exio4 the rpi2 has four cores, no?
17:25 Megaf_ exio4: four clocks at 900Mhz
17:25 Megaf_ cores*
17:28 exio4 hmm
17:29 exio4 I think that is lower than the lowest frequency my FX can do
17:29 exio4 without explicit underclocking
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17:41 crazyR !up 173.0.52.175
17:41 MinetestBot 173.0.52.175:30000 seems to be down
17:42 crazyR !up 173.0.52.175 31000
17:42 MinetestBot 173.0.52.175:31000 is up (147ms)
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17:51 Krock meow
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18:07 Megaf_ exio4: hm, my AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE (3,2GHz) can run at 800 MHz
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18:07 Megaf_ it is usually running at 800 MHz
18:07 exio4 Megaf_: I don't remember if the low freq is 800MHz or 1200MHz
18:08 Megaf_ hm, I think I might run the benchmark on my Phenom II after I run on the RPi2
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18:09 Megaf_ gcc version 4.9.2 (Debian 4.9.2-10)
18:09 Megaf_ new gcc version :)
18:09 Megaf_ Thats on the RPi2 running Debian Jessie
18:09 Megaf_ And on my laptop, gcc version 4.9.2 (Debian 4.9.2-10)
18:09 Megaf_ the very same :)
18:09 Megaf_ so the race will be fair
18:20 Megaf_ exio4: the Phenom II x4 is much quicker than my laptop and the Raspberry Pi
18:20 Megaf_ [100%] Built target minetest
18:20 Megaf_ real1m24.152s
18:20 Megaf_ little more than 1 minute
18:20 exio4 are you forcing the lowest frequency?
18:21 Megaf_ nope, I will do now
18:21 exio4 hm, looks like so
18:21 exio4 ah
18:21 exio4 it takes 1:50~ to compile everything without underclocking / disabling cores
18:23 sfan5 Megaf_: the race isn't fair because your pi targets armv7l
18:23 Megaf_ ok, CPU in powersave now
18:23 Megaf_ sfan5: so?
18:23 sfan5 VanessaE: replied to minetest_game#478
18:24 Megaf_ Im compiling again on the phenon running at 800 MHz
18:24 sfan5 Megaf_: the code generation/optimization step for armv7l might be faster/slower than those for x86
18:25 Megaf_ yep, but Im not benchmarkng the cpu power, nad yes real scnarios for real develpment, Im benchmarking time
18:25 Megaf_ sfan5: the pi2 did already almost as good as my laptop
18:25 Megaf_ using outdated version of the gcc
18:25 sfan5 that doesn't mean anything
18:25 sfan5 you can't compare them because they are doing different things
18:26 Megaf_ sfan5: It is not possible to compare x86 and ARM
18:26 sfan5 wat
18:26 sfan5 that is what i've been saying
18:26 Megaf_ but I can compare the time it takes to compile something
18:26 sfan5 yes
18:26 sfan5 it's not an useful comparison though
18:26 Megaf_ and thats what Im comparing
18:26 sfan5 because they compile for different archs
18:26 Megaf_ sfan5: well, in my case, it is, if my Pi is faster than my laptop, I will use it to compile minetest for me
18:27 Megaf_ cross compile
18:27 Megaf_ but the cross compile can take longer than a normal compile
18:27 sfan5 if your pi is faster when compiling for ARM, you will use it to compile for x86
18:27 sfan5 sounds logical
18:27 Megaf_ doesnt it?
18:27 Megaf_ :P
18:28 sfan5 hint: it makes no sense
18:28 Megaf_ exio4: Phenom II x4 at 800MHz compiles it in 4 minutes and 52 seconds
18:29 Megaf_ so, compile time per clock of that CPU is insanily better
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18:29 exio4 rude
18:30 exio4 sfan5: sounds fair
18:31 Megaf_ exio4: using Debian Jessie with the same version of gcc the Pi2 actually performed worse
18:31 Megaf_ real16m25.254s
18:31 Megaf_ real        13m40.827s
18:31 Megaf_ before
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18:35 Megaf_ sfan5: do you believe that minetest compile on my Phenom II will run on my laptop?
18:35 Megaf_ both are running Debian Jessie and both have AMD CPU
18:36 Megaf_ both 64 bit and both based on the K10 architecture
18:36 Megaf_ actually, the laptop is not K10, is an AMD E1
18:36 gamemanj Megaf_: I'm not sfan5, but it sounds like it should...
18:39 Megaf_ $ du -hs minetest_bin
18:39 Megaf_ 23Mminetest_bin
18:39 Megaf_ $ du -hs minetest
18:39 Megaf_ 63Mminetest
18:39 Megaf_ minetest_bin is just the game itself, without translation, utils and misc
18:39 Megaf_ and whout the source/build stuff
18:40 Megaf_ my point is
18:40 Megaf_ the hole bin game is only 23MB
18:40 Megaf_ $ du -hs minetest_bin/fonts/
18:40 Megaf_ 15Mminetest_bin/fonts/
18:40 Megaf_ 15MB of those are fonts
18:40 Megaf_ there should be changed ASAP
18:41 gamemanj Well, maybe switching to Unifont would help, assuming someone replaced the font rendering.
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18:44 Megaf_ sfan5: gamemanj: it works! The minetest compile in one machine works in another, cool!
18:44 gamemanj ...I'm wondering why this surprises you.
18:45 Megaf_ well, first it couldnt find all libs
18:45 Megaf_ bin/minetest: error while loading shared libraries: libjpeg.so.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
18:45 Megaf_ fixed with ln -s /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjpeg.so.62 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjpeg.so.8
18:45 gamemanj Well, you do have to have the libraries installed, but still.
18:46 Megaf_ gamemanj: it surprises me because I compiled for one CPU, I didnt know if it would work on a different CPU
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18:46 Megaf_ if it does work, I believe Im not using all the CPU instructions that I could be using
18:47 JohnWD Did InchraNet IRC Server got change again?
18:47 gamemanj Megaf_:Maybe, but then again, do you really need that performance?
18:47 gamemanj Megaf_: And that's assuming there is much to gain anyway.
18:48 gamemanj Usually instruction set extensions start off in one processor, but quickly get implemented by everyone.
18:49 Cidraque joined #minetest
18:49 gamemanj (Except under conditions like low popularity)
18:49 Cidraque hi :)
18:49 gamemanj Hello!
18:49 Cidraque gamemanj:  :)
18:50 Cidraque VanessaE: Can I ask you a question?
18:50 VanessaE maybe :)
18:50 Cidraque Yesterday I went to your minetest server
18:50 VanessaE mmhmm?
18:50 Cidraque how can I place block? I need to send you a private?
18:50 Cidraque blocks*
18:51 VanessaE which server?  did you read the rules and ask for interact?
18:51 Cidraque sorry, I'm new and spanish xD
18:51 Megaf_ cool
18:51 Cidraque Yes, I read the rules but I don't ask for interact
18:51 Cidraque that's the point
18:51 Megaf_ well, got to go home, cya all
18:51 VanessaE which server?
18:51 VanessaE (I run several and all of them but one require this)
18:51 VanessaE ah, found it
18:51 exio4 Megaf_: if you compile with -march=native or 'weird things', it'd have been different
18:51 JohnWD I have an question. did the IRC Server change again for InchraNet? since I try to connect to "irc.inchra.net" and got an error failed.
18:52 Cidraque digitalaudioconcepts?
18:52 exio4 Megaf_: but generic binaries (<=> not optimized for your arch) are gonna be generic
18:52 VanessaE I meant which of the 8 servers on that address :)
18:52 VanessaE anyway, it's VE-Creative that you meant.  interact granted.
18:52 Cidraque VanessaE:  :( oh... that...
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18:53 Cidraque VanessaE: Now I can interact? :)
18:53 VanessaE yep
18:53 proller joined #minetest
18:53 Cidraque I'm trappeed in a cave haha, thanks, VanessaE  :)
18:53 VanessaE Cidraque: that's easily fixed.  /spawn  or just turn on noclip+fly :)
18:54 Cidraque oh, thats useful
18:54 Cidraque thanks
18:54 VanessaE yw
18:55 JohnWD Yeah I guess VanessaE you and ShadowNinja notice that ChanServ is missing in the inchra #minetest?
18:55 VanessaE JohnWD: yep.  I shut it off
18:55 VanessaE it's been moved to a new IP
18:55 VanessaE and ShadowNinja isn't around to re-link the new IP back into inchra yet.
18:58 Cidraque anyone can tell me about map generator? v6 o v7 whats better?
18:58 Cidraque someone*
18:58 Calinou someone should benchmark all mapgens, I don't know
18:58 Calinou they're all fast enough
19:00 Cidraque :/
19:01 gamemanj v6 is the default, that's all I know.
19:01 Cidraque hahaha
19:01 * gamemanj is not using a dev version
19:02 gamemanj So if the dev version changed that I do not know.
19:05 gamemanj ...Actually, v6's cliffs seem like vertical slabs, while v7's seem smoother. So maybe v7.
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19:06 Calinou try v5
19:06 Calinou great floating islands
19:06 gamemanj V7 also seems to have them, but okay, trying v5 now.
19:07 gamemanj Oh,wow. Are you sure it's not so much "great floating islands", more like "everything is floating islands"?
19:08 Calinou no, not everything is
19:08 gamemanj There's underwater structures which,although not the best gameplay-wise...
19:09 gamemanj are pretty nice.
19:10 gamemanj (note: by this I mean: 3d noise underwater, making really deep holes-so gameplay-wise, good luck getting stuff from there)
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19:13 gamemanj Also, talking of structures, there's apparently a dungeon or something here. I don't have that mod, so I'm guessing it's a v5 feature?
19:14 sfan5 Megaf_: both are x86, that means it will probably work
19:14 sfan5 Megaf_: iirc gcc compiles for a reasonable subset of x86 by default
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19:23 xenkey So I'm experiencing a rather strange segfault
19:28 gamemanj A rather strange segfault...where?
19:29 gamemanj Under which conditions?
19:30 xenkey I have absolutely no idea
19:30 xenkey I'd recompile with debug but I'd honestly just rather grab the latest source and see if it fixes it
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20:04 xenkey Can I map a LevelDB world?
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20:10 sfan5 xenkey: you mean with minetestmapper?
20:10 xenkey Yeah
20:10 sfan5 yes you can
20:10 xenkey Seems I found it, do I have to stop the server?
20:10 sfan5 (assuming you are using the official mapper)
20:10 sfan5 no, you don't have to stop the server for leveldb
20:10 xenkey Alright, cool
20:11 xenkey Would redis be a viable option for a server with only 2GB of RAM?
20:11 xenkey But totally dedicated to the redis server
20:11 sfan5 yes
20:11 sfan5 it will take some time for your map to get that large
20:12 xenkey Would it be better to spin up another box and host redis on it rather than setting it up on the same server as minetest is running on?
20:12 Calinou you can map all database backends except dummy
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20:14 xenkey Does the remote media need a trailing slash?
20:14 sfan5 xenkey: if your primary server has enough RAM you can run redis on it too
20:15 sfan5 i have no idea whether remote media needs a trailing slash, just put one there to be sure
20:15 xenkey Would it be faster if I had a separate box for redis, providing the TCP link wasn't the bottleneck
20:17 xenkey Exception: Failed to open Database: IO error: lock /home/xen/.minetest/worlds/world/map.db/LOCK: Resource temporarily unavailable
20:17 xenkey Damn
20:20 proller you cant read leveldb by 2 processes
20:20 xenkey Can I with redis?
20:31 Nihao joined #minetest
20:31 Nihao Greetings, oh protectors of the cubes :)
20:32 Menche joined #minetest
20:33 Nihao VanessaE: Sorry for yesterday, I missed something and have to say officially: The bug is *not* coming from Quarry.
20:33 VanessaE no worries.
20:33 VanessaE it's the bones mod that's the issue, sorta.
20:33 VanessaE until the API is clarified it's still unsure whose fault it is :)
20:33 Nihao Understood.
20:34 gamemanj ...? Which API?
20:34 Nihao Now I need advice for the Hud....it has a commit, we take it and --big surprise-- the server crashes.
20:34 VanessaE gamemanj: the minetest modding API, regarding callbacks like can_dig
20:35 VanessaE Nihao: I don't know what you mean by "the Hud"
20:35 Nihao ...agina...and again...and .....
20:35 Nihao aigain
20:35 VanessaE there are a number of mods that affect the default HUD
20:35 Nihao Here is the trace: http://pastebin.com/ztmi0cCB
20:35 VanessaE oh, hunger mod.
20:35 Nihao YEp, sorry, I am not yet familiar with the expressions.
20:35 VanessaE that's a matter to take up with the authors of that mod.
20:36 Nihao Sure, give me names, I am in the mood :)
20:36 VanessaE and it's probably the samne thing
20:36 VanessaE a nil is being passed somewhere and that mod doesn't know how to handle it
20:36 Nihao What is so funny: It worked some weeks ago!
20:37 gamemanj ...It's not in the "hunger" mod, it's in "hud/hunger.lua"...in other words,
20:37 gamemanj the Hud mod's handling of hunger.
20:37 Nihao OK: I propose top-down.
20:37 Nihao The server crashes after a change on a stable mod.
20:38 Nihao After rewored rework still the same.
20:38 Nihao Then, it shouls revert to what was stable.
20:38 Nihao should*
20:38 Nihao And maybe apply more testing.
20:39 VanessaE oh you're right
20:39 Chanku joined #minetest
20:39 VanessaE well anyway I've passed it on to the minetest core devs
20:39 Nihao OK. How can I coome to that situation?
20:39 VanessaE this needs an official ruling as far as the API is concerned.
20:39 VanessaE either the hud mod needs fixed or pipeworks does.
20:40 Nihao Please understand me well, I am not against anybody. Just not understanding how it should continue to work.
20:40 Nihao We have dozens of resets every day and can not get rid of them....
20:41 Calinou Sun, 22 Oct 2028 14:00:00 +0200
20:41 Calinou this is when the github.com SSL certificate expires
20:41 Calinou \o/
20:41 Nihao I can not wait that long.
20:41 Calinou on a capslock day
20:41 Calinou https://tls.so can test sites
20:42 Nihao Calinou: can it debug the hunger.lua?
20:42 gamemanj Research into HUD complete, looks like dev is BlockMen, unless Nihao has a fork which didn't show up on google.
20:42 Nihao That would be perfect!
20:43 gamemanj why would that be perfect?
20:43 * gamemanj is confused. Very confused.
20:43 Nihao Actually, it is BlockMen and the version we use is written in the link
20:43 VanessaE Nihao: it is important that you remember that a server crash is almost always due to mods you've installed.  so if you get lots of crashes from a particular combo, you have no choice but to remove the offending mods and contact the developer(s)
20:43 VanessaE ..of those mods
20:43 Nihao OK.
20:44 gamemanj Aha! The line in question is: "exhaus = exhaus + new"
20:44 Nihao What is the best way you would suggest: opening an issue?
20:44 gamemanj "exhaus" is "local exhaus = hud.exhaustion[name]". I know what the bug is, sort of.
20:44 VanessaE occasionally a server will just...crash, for no obvious reason, which is then the minetest core devs domain.  but mods are strictly the modders' areas to deal with, so you have to contact those modders on their github repo's, forum topics, IRC, etc.
20:44 gamemanj For some reason, it's not initializing/is forgetting the "exhaustion" value for a player...
20:45 Viper168 joined #minetest
20:45 VanessaE opening an issue is a good idea, on the respective mods' github pages.  but looks like gamemanj here is already figuring out the issue with that particular mod
20:45 gamemanj The bug is caused when going near a machine,right?
20:46 gamemanj What if that machine were to be creating a FAKE PLAYER?
20:46 Nihao VanessaE: Thank you very much. I will open the issue.
20:46 gamemanj When the fake player digs a block, the callback is called.
20:46 gamemanj The callback then fails, because the fake player != a real player, so exhaustion isn't initialized.
20:47 Nihao it is not a fake player but a non-connected player
20:47 gamemanj ...No, you don't understand. What machine was it?
20:47 Nihao ....tha, I wrote.
20:47 gamemanj What machine?
20:48 Nihao I try to find out.
20:48 gamemanj ...I think it's a block breaker/block placer, or something doing that kind of thing.
20:48 VanessaE gamemanj: indeed, some pipeworks and technic machines have to create a "fake" player to do their actions with.
20:48 Nihao We do not have Quarry.
20:48 VanessaE some other mods have trouble with this because I guess not all fields/values in the player object are present?  I'm not sure (I didn't write the machines in question)
20:49 VanessaE the modding API doesn't specify clearly what parts of a player object are mandatory
20:49 gamemanj The reason is because Hunger is assuming the player would connect "normally".
20:49 gamemanj It doesn't check if it ever initialized the exhaustion value.
20:49 VanessaE gamemanj: it would likely be triggered by a nodebreaker, that's part of the "wielder" object.
20:50 VanessaE (I don't *think* the deployer is part of the wielder object)
20:50 gamemanj And even if the fake player doesn't have the same name as a real player,
20:50 gamemanj it would still trigger. But that's not the problem here.
20:51 xenkey how exactly do i use the --geometry option for minetestmapper ?
20:52 gamemanj As it is, the minetest API is doing what it's supposed to, but hunger.lua isn't handling the possibility of uninitialized values.
20:54 VanessaE xenkey: --geometry left:top+width+height
20:54 VanessaE e.g.,  --geometry -5000:-7500+12000+15000
20:54 VanessaE where the left and top are relative to the center of the map
20:55 VanessaE (I think)
20:55 xenkey Right
20:55 xenkey top being the max Y value?
20:55 hmmmm joined #minetest
20:56 VanessaE no, relative :)
20:56 xenkey How could I make a 100x100 square with 0,0 in the center?
20:56 VanessaE e.g. that example I gave would put the top left corner at 5000,7500 nodes northwest of the map center
20:56 gamemanj As it is, Nihao, I have a simple solution for a quick fix.
20:56 VanessaE so you would want -50:-50+100+100  I think
20:57 gamemanj Replace "local exhaus = hud.exhaustion[name]" with "local exhaus = hud.exhaustion[name] or 0".
20:57 gamemanj (again, a quick fix, and I'm not sure how well it will work)
20:57 xenkey uh
20:58 xenkey can I map a specified rectangle if I know a coordinate at each of its corners?
20:58 gamemanj Yes,
20:58 gamemanj you just need to map coordinates to X,Y,width,heigh
20:58 xenkey specific even
20:58 gamemanj *height
20:58 xenkey width and height being the resultant pixels on the image?
20:58 gamemanj No, I'm just referring to it as 2d
20:58 gamemanj To be more precise, X size and Z size
20:59 Nihao gamemanj: Thanks a lot. I am not sure if the administrator is still willing to play :)  but I will propose it.
20:59 xenkey wait so the first two are the origin ?
21:01 gamemanj The first 2 are corner 1. The second 2 are the offset from corner 1.
21:02 xenkey ah, right
21:02 gamemanj Those make up a rectangle,
21:02 xenkey okay it makes sense now
21:02 xenkey thanks
21:03 xenkey it takes a rediculous amount of time even to make a small map
21:04 xenkey Can I make it bigger?
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21:06 Nihao I entered the issue. Thank you for your support! and have a nice evening!
21:06 Nihao https://github.com/BlockMen/hud/issues/17
21:08 xenkey http://mt.3tm.net/maps/map1.png
21:09 xenkey I'm really, really bad at this
21:11 xenkey » ssh xen@mt.3tm.net 'ls ~/.minetest/worlds/world/players | wc -l'
21:11 xenkey 977
21:11 xenkey Damn
21:15 Nihao VanessaE: Another thing I forgot:
21:16 Nihao VanessaE: Thank you for the new flow logic. We have zero crashes on that part of the mods.
21:17 VanessaE Nihao: oh good.  how's the actual behavior of the flowing logic though?
21:17 VanessaE some people don't like it
21:17 VanessaE (it's slow, isn't an accurate simulation of water flow)
21:19 Nihao I have to go into the game....I did not find the time until now. Just chatted with the players to get more data about the bugs.
21:19 Nihao I will have a look at that.
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22:08 oats just out of curiosity, how hard would it be to make minetest compatible with minecraft worlds, if at all possible?
22:08 VanessaE very
22:08 VanessaE probably all but impossible.
22:09 VanessaE converting a world from one to the other could theoretically be done but no one's written a direct 1:1 conversion program that I know about
22:09 VanessaE (there are programs that'll convert via multiple steps, in a slightly lossy manner)
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22:09 oats you'd probably need a custom game now too, wouldn't you
22:09 oats VanessaE: interesting, linky?
22:09 VanessaE sec.
22:10 Tablet_One joined #minetest
22:12 VanessaE oats: stand by.
22:12 oats no rush
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22:14 VanessaE ah
22:15 VanessaE kilbith: --> oats needs info :)
22:15 kilbith oats, convert an entire MC world is currently impossible, but you could convert a small part of it : https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi​c.php?f=12&amp;t=6007&amp;start=25
22:16 oats intriguing, thanks for the info
22:16 kilbith the MTS method is the fastest, but convert 500x500x500 nodes takes roughly ~8h of conversion with a good CPU
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22:17 kilbith bye
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23:10 YvesLevier Hey everybody :)  - Is there a way for carts to jump from an upside rail to a lower one?
23:11 YvesLevier Also : is there a way to make a cart to transport objets?
23:15 YvesLevier I mean freight wagons
23:18 YvesLevier Calinou: ^  Sais-tu?
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23:30 tim_flatus Do I need to register a callback in order to make tabs work in a formspec
23:31 tim_flatus Or put another way - does anyone have a simple example of using tabs in a form?
23:31 Megaf joined #minetest
23:31 Megaf Hi everyone
23:31 Megaf whos using 64 bit Linux?
23:32 Megaf exio4: Are you there?
23:32 Megaf I made a binary for 64 bit Linux and I'd like people to test it
23:33 Megaf Its actually a stripped down version of minetest, for online playing
23:33 Megaf Link -> https://github.com/Megaf/MinetestLnx Download -> https://github.com/Megaf/MinetestLnx/releases https://github.com/Megaf/MinetestLnx/rel​eases/download/v0.0.1/MinetestLnx.tar.gz
23:34 Megaf Please pvt Megaf_ about your experience
23:34 Megaf bye
23:40 tim_flatus Or any example of an ingame form that uses tabs?
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